AJC > Sports Thrashers > Blog > Archives > 2007 > March > 05 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USCancel my subscription to Forbes
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
When I heard on the radio this morning that Don Waddell had been named the sixth-best GM in hockey, I did a classic Danny Thomas spit take with my morning coffee.
When I then realized that, no, in fact, Don Waddell had been named the sixth-best GM in all of sports, I accidentally swallowed my coffee mug whole, getting it lodged halfway down my throat in a horizontal position, so that you could clearly see the outline of the handle framing my Adam’s apple. It took paramedics 45 minutes to remove the coffee mug and another 45 minutes to restrain me after I lunged at the radio with an oversized BBQ fork in an attempt to expel the demons that had obviously possessed its frequencies.
Before I go on, let me just say that I like and respect Don Waddell. When I covered the NHL for SI.com, I found him to be accomodating and honest and humane. I always felt the decisions he made were always with franchise AND player in mind. He’s the kind of GM a player could trust and the kind of GM who wasn’t going to undercut his superiors or abandon his underlings.
The thing that Waddell has done the best in his time with the Thrashers is keep the team moving forward. There is something to be said for that. He didn’t trip over his biggest draft picks — Kovalchuk, Heatley, Lehtonen — and he made the most of some pretty bad and unusual situations. Folks, getting Marian Hossa for an unhappy Dany Heatley was as brilliant of a move by a GM that you’ll ever see in your lives. Getting Bob Hartley in the wake of Curt Fraser was part-luck, part-coup.
That said …
What ancient spell of the dark arts did Forbes invoke to name him the sixth-best GM in all of sports?
Oh, I read the criteria. That didn’t help.
I don’t know much, but I know this much: This is a franchise that has never played a postseason game, a franchise that would need to win its next 82 regular-season games (that’s an undefeated season to you and me) just to break even. This is a GM who has drafted exactly two players — Garnet Exelby and Pasi Nurminen — outside of the first round who have made any kind of impact on the team. This is a GM who just traded two his past four No. 1 picks just to get his team into the playoffs just so he wouldn’t lose his job.
Now, OK, next to somebody like Hawks GM Billy Knight, Don Waddell looks like Red Auerbach. Of course, next to Pete Babcock, Billy Knight looks like Moses (son of Amram, not Malone). But next to somebody like John Schuerholz (14 straight division titles, on WS title), Waddell looks like a crab scuttling across the ocean floor. You might say, well, Waddell took over an expansion team and had to start from scratch. Ahem, do you remember the ‘90 Braves? An expansion team would have been preferable. And Schuerholz ends up 42 or some such thing on the Forbes list.
Let’s face it, formulas are for schmucks. And this is coming from a guy currently enrolled in a mathematical modeling class and who knows how to plot the points of two linear equations. Formulas suck, OK? That’s why you can take all your Bill James disciples and your SABRmetric D&D dorks in baseball, with their VORP and their OBP+OPP=TNT nonsense, and send them adrift into the ocean of obsolete. You can make numbers prove almost anything if you bend them the right way. My friend Rob Neyer at ESPN.com could take Nino Espinosa’s stats in 1977 and ‘prove’ him to be a superior pitcher to Tom Seaver.
So, Forbes magazine, may I offer you this piece of advice: Stick to money, would you? Don’t try to outsmart yourself, don’t try to revolutionize the way we assess our sports GMs. We like our shiny trophies and our champagne celebrations, not ‘salary cap manipulation in relation to the previous GM.’ It’s nonsense.
Even Don Waddell knows it, bless his heart. Nice man, pretty average GM.
OK, I’ve teed it up … swing away at the poor guy.
P.S. nice win on Sunday, eh?
Comments
By Brian
March 5, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this
Ice Man - Sports is a major business and Forbes analyzes businesses. I would like to know how you analyze whether a business is doing good or bad? I would also like to know based on that knowledge how you have determined that the Thrashers business is or is not doing well?
By Ice Man
March 5, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this
Brian, Forbes didn’t analyze the ‘business’ of the Thrashers, that’s a whole different list that they do. They were analzying GMs — the men in charge of player personnel. That’s wins, losses, division titles, championships, etc … decision-making in general. Their criteria in this list was no profit margin or concessions … it was team performance. And I love the Thrashers, but I can’t delude myself into thinking the GM is been the sixth-best in the league. (Talk to me in late June when we’re holding the Cup and I’ll change my tune.)
By Ice Man
March 5, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this
Brian, Forbes didn’t analyze the ‘business’ of the Thrashers, that’s a whole different list that they do. They were analzying GMs — the men in charge of player personnel. That’s wins, losses, division titles, championships, etc … decision-making in general. Their criteria in this list was no profit margin or concessions … it was team performance. And I love the Thrashers, but I can’t delude myself into thinking the GM is been the sixth-best in the league. (Talk to me in late June when we’re holding the Cup and I’ll change my tune.)
By Icy Chick
March 5, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this
Ice Man, I would be STUNNED if you have ever had a subscription to FORBES or any other financial-centric publication.
You should change the slogan of your column to “A FAIRWEATHER Fan’s Perspective.”
You aren’t worthy enough to sift through Don Waddell’s laundry water, let alone critique him. I am no hockey expert, either, but you make me look like Herb Brooks or Barry Melrose by comparison.
Up until now, I only thought that you LOOKED dumb. Thanks for clarifying.
By Brendan
March 5, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this
ICEMAN, people who have had the Waddell kool-aid tend to have had second and third-helpings. There’s nothing more to add. But if Forbes’ list is strictly based on finances, I have NO IDEA how well the Thrashers are doing. I’m not privy to that information. But I do know that on May 24, 2006, the AJC’s own Tim Tucker wrote an article where is stated that the ownership “claimed” it lost $20 million in ‘05-‘06 and would lose another $20 million in ‘06-‘07. But it didn’t get specific as to how the ownership group arrived at these figures. Only that it appeared in an affadavit in the Belkin suit.
If any of that is true, then most of the $20 million lost must be based on the Hawks, I’m guessing. For if it were a 50-50 split in losses between the Hawks and Thrashers, how could Don Waddell be a financial guru? Okay … let’s factor in Philips Arena losses. If the Philips Arena losses and Hawks losses reflected the lion’s share of the alleged $20 million worth losses, then maybe Don Waddell has done very well. But, I don’t know. I don’t have the accounting in front of me.
I’ll just say this. If I were an owner and I hired a GM … I’d tell him ‘flat-out’ … you’ve got 3 years to get this team into the playoffs. Four, with truly mitigating circumstances. (Hurricane Katrina comes to mind.) Beyond that, I’m not going to listen to excuses. It’s about “accountability.” Not even a blood-relative of mine is going to last seven seasons, without getting me playoff money! Playoff money is pure profit for the owners. Pure profit. Nothing beats pure profit at the end of the day.
By Ice Man
March 5, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this
Icy Chick (appropriate enough),
Geez. You must have skipped the two graphs where I praised DW up and down and gone right on to the one where I pointed out his shortcomings.
Don’t confuse ‘fair’ with ‘fairweathered’ … I like this team warts and all. But at least I’m honest enough to acknowledge the warts.
Ask yourself this question: If you were ranking the NHL GMs, would you go Lamoriello-Waddell at 1-2? Lamoriello is a layup, he was winning titles in the pre-cap age by GMing as if there was a cap. As for the current state of things, Darcy Regier deserves a little nod — he BUILT this Sabres team; Detroit’s Ken Holland has a few Cups on his shelf and is constantly battling for the Presidents Trophy; and, for that matter, first-year GM Garth Snow has the Isles in playoff contention and just traded for one of the best players in the NHL … and if you’re going to compare him to his predecessor, Mike Milbury, than Garth Snow should be crowned Emperor of All He Surveys.
By Tony C.
March 5, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this
Yeah, I’m wondering when (or if) Garth Snow is going to get some props for his work out on the Strong Island??? He was definitely and unusal choice for GM, but we all can se that Mr. Wang will run his hockey club the way he likes thankyouverymuch.
Seriously though, I think Snow has done a marvelous job, the Ryan Smyth deal was gutsy and it definitely changes his squad from a “bubble” team to one that you have to consider a definite playoff threat. Yes the DiPietro and Yashin contracts are bananas, but I don’t think Snow made those deals. Keeping the faith in his squad (kept Blake around) has led to some great play from his squad (yes, Nolan should be given credit as well), and he now has made the moves to make his team better. He’s cleared as much cap-space as possible for the summer, and oh yeah, If they win tonight the Isles sweep the season series against the Rangers (It’s a big deal).
Maybe a plaque from the Nassau County Business Council with the legend Emperor of All He Surveys isn’t out of place.
By Tony C.
March 5, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this
IceMan
Nice work on the Danny Thomas reference
LET’S GO BLUE !!!
By Brian
March 5, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this
Ice Man - I’ll give you the team vs. finance argument but now I want your list of best players in the NHL. Are you really putting Smyth near the top of the list? Considering that the Oil wasn’t going to sign him it didn’t take a genius to come in and get him either. We all will give NJ Lou the nod. I’ll somewhat give you Holland but he consistently competes because he has the budget to do so. It doesn’t take a genius to go get guys like Hasek and Hull in the off season. Regier isn’t doing half the work that Ruff is doing. Lots of stuff going on up there over Darcy’s tenure that he screwed up. I say Sather should be up there, not for the Rangers but for the Oilers. Burke maybe?
By Ice Man
March 5, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this
Brian,
Several good points. I’ll try to hit them all.
Heck, yeah, I put Ryan Smyth near the top. I said so when the Islanders got him. He’s been vastly underrated out there in the wilds of Alberta. And just because he was available, doesn’t mean it was easy to get him. If it was, why isn’t he here? Or in Detroit? Or in Ottawa? Or in Carolina? … Any team in the league would love to have this guy. Go watch any of Canada’s games from Olympics/World C’ships over the past bunch of years, Smyth is routinely the toughest, headiest player on the ice.
My best players, though? I’d have to think about that. I don’t get to watch the rest of the league like I used to. I work nights, as you guys know. …. So give me some time to think about it and I’ll try to post that in the next few days.
Re: Ken Holland. Of course it doesn’t take a GENIUS, but it takes something. If being a great GM consisted only of identifying great players in the league and acquiring them, then anybody could be a great GM. But getting it done is a whole other matter.
Re: Regier, Remember he has built this team through the draft, mostly, and did so during a huge ownership scandal, etc … Yes, Ruff is a fantastic coach, but Regier put these players in his hands. He saw the writing on the wall of the new NHL.
Sather was a great GM/coach when he had Gretzky, Messier, et al. this first time around in Edm., but let’s be honest, the Rangers have been mostly a schitzo mess the past few seasons….
By Beau Vighn
March 5, 2007 7:47 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t give you two cents for Don waddell. Ever since he traded my favorite all time Thrasher, Darcy Hordichuk, I have waited for his ouster.
By Brian
March 5, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this
Ice Man - Ok, I guess we have to define “top” of the list before we go any further on Smyth… Although I can think of 10 guys I would take over him and once you get beyond 10 are you really “top”? As for Garth, let’s see how long Smyth is even on the Isle and what he does before we start putting up plaques all over town.
As for Holland, yeah he gets it done, but it is much easier to get it done in the self proclaimed HockeyTown with budget and all than in say Tampa or Carolina.
Regier went cheap and I don’t think he saw the writing on the wall with the new NHL as everyone claims. Also, it would not have taken many changes in the late 90’s to get the Sabres a Cup. The ownership scandal didn’t touch the team, it just gave Buffalo their own Enron. Actually it benefitted them with TG coming in. Let’s debate the other ones, but don’t go down the Buffalo one with me.
By JMar
March 5, 2007 8:20 PM | Link to this
As I mentioned in another blog, the #3 GM in all of sports according to Forbes is a punchline for NBA fans.
By Darcyisagirl'sname
March 5, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this
Beau, what is this fascination with Hordichuk? Yes, he was a tough player but he pretty much sucked. I liked some of the other lame players the Thrashers have had but I don’t rue the day they were traded or released.
As for Brian and Ice Man’s back and forth, I think you guys should get a room, you guys are in love! LOL Seriously, Brian, you act like a know it all prick and it gets old. It’s one thing to state your opinion but to act like you do, it’s a joke. You have to remember that people have different definitions of “one of the best” and it’s not just your narrow-minded definition. Smyth doesn’t score a ton of goals but he does so much more for his team and yes, that makes him one of the best in the NHL. It’s not all about goals you moron!
By Brian
March 5, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this
Darcyisagirl’sname - My opening words to Ice Man were “Ok, I guess we have to define “top” of the list before we go any further on Smyth”
Think before you act, or at least read what I actually wrote before you go off on me…
By Ice Man
March 5, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this
Yeah, actually, this is one of the more civil comments Brian has ever written me.
But I do love him just the same.
By sodapants
March 5, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this
Ice Man seems to be a bit of a schmuck indeed. You can’t wax irritation that a GM is too concerned with protecting the future and never makes any good moves (hot tip! the draft isn’t the only way you tweak a team)… and then accuse him of only trying to save his job when the ‘ol big splash is made. Kinda makes you look like a pinhead along with the rest of the serial whiners and Waddell haters (then lovers, then haters, oh wait.. lovers this week!) on this board. Silly person…
cheers..
By Eric
March 5, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this
Waddell is the sixth best GM in the business?? Sure, he is. His team has yet to make the playoffs in seven years in a league in which almost EVERYONE makes the playoffs. OK…whatever….
By darcyisachick'sname
March 5, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this
Actually Brian, your opening words to Ice Man were “Sports is a major business and Forbes analyzes businesses.” Why don’t you read what YOU wrote before correcting someone else, you pompous d-ckhead!
By Ice Man
March 5, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this
Again, can’t we be pro-something (in this case, DW) and still be able to critique the shortcomings? I like Don Waddell. I think I said so in as many words. And I KNOW I didn’t say he ‘never makes any good moves.’ … in fact, I think I cited three or four really good moves. …
On the plus side, he’s made some nice trades (Kozlov for Piros; Savard for some Russian who has never set foot in the NHL) … He’s made some decent FA signings. And he’s had two seasons derailed by outside circumstances (Heatley car crash, goalie plague).
But, Mr. Pants, or can I call you Soda?, would you say Don Waddell has had good draft success? And your response can’t include the words ‘Kovalchuk,’ ‘Heatley’ or ‘Lehtonen,’ because we’ve already established that those were layups. Scour the eight drafts and find me three bona fide NHLers the Thrashers drafted beyond the first round.
And wouldn’t you say the draft is one of the top factors that define a GM’s tenure?
Listen, I’m not bending over backward to say bad things about DW. This is a simple premise: Is he the second-best GM in the NHL? I’d like him to be. And if he was, I’d heartily say so. But, objectively speaking, he’s not. He’s got his flaws. He is a flawed GM. But he’s my flawed GM, and I like him. I hope he wins a Cup here. He deserves it. (And then I hope he learns how to evaluate middle- and low-round draft talent.)
And, by the way, …. ‘wax irritation’? … I’d have that looked at, my friend, before it gets infected.
By Beau Vighn
March 5, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this
I appreciated his tough rugged style. He amy not have been the best skater or score the most goals but he wasn’t afraid to take on the toughest guys in the league. Tell me who we have now that will mix it up with a George Laraque. Nobody!!. He must have some value as he gets quality minutes for Nashville who the last time I checked was a pretty good club. If we had Hordichuk people would not be so quick to take liberties with Ilya, Hossa etc.
By darcyisachick'sname
March 5, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this
Yeah, his 5 “quality” minutes a game for Nashville is really impressive. We definitely need a guy like him, someone who averages almost 2 penalty minutes a game while playing an average of 5 minutes a game. Darcy is obviously the missing piece for this team.
By LAC
March 5, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this
Brenden and Bob could do 1000% better than waddell !!!!!!
NO doubt about it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pittsburgh to Kansas City WDAF Says !!!
By sodapants
March 5, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this
Sure, you can call me Soda.
And I’d say that you’re comparing DW to how many GM’s of teams that are NOT expansion teams again? And are still employed since DW was hired? That’d be an interesting number against how many make the playoffs all the time. Anyway…
Here’s the skinny… Being an expansion team sucks. First, you get to select from all the players no one else wants. Then you have to draft. Drafting early is nice, but it’s just as much of a crap shoot in year one as it is in year 20. We got at least 3 All Stars in 7 years, maybe more. And then you have to conider what trading has been done, how picks were used to get help, how picks were used from trades and so on. Then you have to consider that a team on the rise was destroyed by a serious tragedy just after it’s first few drafts,…. by one of the major draftees! Then you have to trade said draftee and savior right out from under the team and the city. then you have to use at least 5 goalies in one season aside from your projeted starter. then you have to deal with an ownership dispute which puts the financial clamps on just about anything a GM would “like” to do because the teams finances and backers are in court rooms. Then you still have a team at the @ss end of a black hole… and you kept most of your core… and you’ve finally gotten the green light to spend some money… and maybe this time around a free agent might want to come here for the sake of potential, not history. Lets remember that the word “free” means something. And in the early years it always meant that they didn’t want to play here… no matter what the GM did. Then, after all of that.. you STILL have the idiot barn talking about some idiotic 5 year plan and totally ignoring all of the growing pains and adversity that normally accompanies an expansion team PLUS the UNcommon circumstances that fell on this particular franchise. Could things get worse? Could any idiot STILL demand good on ANY 5 year plan for anything?
Most of the dopes on here live each day as if nothing ever happened here!
Well, a lot has happened here. And being where we are now is quite a testament to the foundation of this franchise. But that’s just my opinion. Please, call me Soda. And pass along my thanks to DW for not quitting.
By Bob
March 5, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this
Come on guys, take the list worth what it is, it’s a joke, if you look at the rankings from a fan perspective. Forbes used the most twisted logic in these rankings and the results show.
Don Waddell, nice guy, saved his owners a bunch of dollars in the early years, can’t draft, but sure can make some deadline moves saving his job and letting us enjoy a good run here. 6th best? Laughable.
By Ice Man
March 5, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this
C’mon, Bob. That’s what I said. (It just took me about 800 more words, and apparently too much sarcasm.)
Soda, since I agree with almost everything you said and feel like I said much the same, I have to wonder how this all started with you calling me a schmuck and such …
Isn’t it funny how such a trite and meaningless list can produce such heated debate. …. Don’t even get me started on VH1’s top 100 hair band videos! Sister Christian at No. 1! C’mon!
Good talk, Rusty.
By sodapants
March 5, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this
Who cares if DW is 6th or not?
The telling thing here is that so many of you are so anti-DW that you can’t even fathom someone else giving him credit for anything whatsoever! You spend so much time whining that you’re just Pavlov’s dogs at this point. The DW bell rings… and you start salivating.
By jason
March 5, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this
Yep Ice Man, way to be here every game from here on out! I guess your in-depth “fan” analysis of the game Sunday is just limited to “Nice win on Sunday, eh?” How about do us all a favor and stop claiming this to be “A Fan’s Perspective” and just start claiming it to be “An AJC Desk Jockey’s Perspective”? Helps get the bias out of the way. Forbes isn’t run by Cox, after all….
By sodapants
March 5, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this
Ok, Ice Man… If you want it in Indian English, you got it.
You took DW’s nomination as an embarassment. So much so that you happened to lodge a large ceramic device in your throat just by the thought of it. You went out of your way to highlite what an unsatisfactory choice DW was on that list.
Are you kidding? Don’t you work for this franchise?
And since (according to you!) you agree with just about everything I said, how can you square that with the shame you showed by the mention of DW’s name?
Don’t choke on your coffee over it…
By Brian
March 5, 2007 11:25 PM | Link to this
sodapants - great points. Everyone gets so hung up on the draft yet are blind when it comes to free agency and trades.
darcyisachick’sname - I was referring to my opening remarks from my last post. It clearly shows that I am understanding the point of there being different perceptions of what “value” is to a team which you accused me of not knowing.
Then to say I am a “pompous d-ckhead” while your next post you totally cut into poster/blogger Beau Vighn??? Is a hypocrite better or worse than a pompous d-ckhead?
Hey, I’m just glad I can talk some hockey around here…
By Mark
March 5, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this
Excellent game by Hossa and Lehtonen, the home record hasn’t reached EDM proportions yet but its a start.
GO THRASH, keep it up.
By sodapants
March 5, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this
I swear… the Thrashers couldn’t buy the kind of support I give ‘em… yet.. their official fan voice is embarassed by some good press.
Should I be expecting a check?
HA!
Of course not.. but for Bob’s sake, leaders lead from the front, not from the rear. You don’t ask anyone to do anything you wouldn’t do yourself. You go over the wall FIRST, not last.
That is where loyalty is built… when the sh1t is on the fan, not when the sun is on your b@lls.
By Ice Man
March 6, 2007 12:02 AM | Link to this
Soda, Jason … lighten up, guys. The angry-young-man routine may work with the chicks at Starbucks, but around here it’s a bore. To paraphrase Rob Schneider as ‘The Sensitive Naked Guy’: What’s REALLY bothering you?
Soda, your posts tonight went from far too aggressive to somewhat civil back to far too aggressive. What gives with the mood swings? Even after I agreed with you, you come back at me like a snide little schoolgirl. I’m your friend, guy, we’re talkin’ pucks. We can disagree and still be pals.
And, Jason, I am sorry I let you down on Sunday. It being my only day off this week, I felt I should spend a little time with my daughters … take them to the park, have a family dinner (I don’t get to eat with my kids too often because I work five nights a week) … but I am sorry that it cost you the enjoyment of reading my analysis of Sunday’s game. It was a bad call on my part not to blog. I should be more considerate of you next time.
You kind of crack me up because you’re like that old joke about the two women in the Catskills resort:
Woman 1: The food here is terrible.
Woman 2: Yeah .. and such small portions.
Woody Allen tells that joke at the beginning of “Annie Hall.” But that’s you, Jason. You hate me and think I’m an idiot … and I blog far too infrequently.
So guys, put on a happy face. Game night tonight. And it’s actually on TV! It’s been a treat chatting puck with everybody tonight … I think this is the 6th best blog in all of sports.
By sodapants
March 6, 2007 12:02 AM | Link to this
is anyone else having a problem distinguishing the ice man from the ‘ol ice princess?
I’m in a bad mood, so forgive me. But fans don’t mope.. they don’t whine, and they sure as hell don’t condemn themselves or their team, especially when they’re tied for 1st in a division… any division.
Thrashers fans used to dream about being in this position. “Meaningful games in March”..?? Remember that s**? Bob? Most of the yolks here used to pine for it.
here endeth the sermon…. ‘till tomorrow.
By sodapants
March 6, 2007 12:07 AM | Link to this
Ok, Ice man.. whatever you say. but.. when, prey tell, do you ever get aroung to addressing a point?
You don’t ever seem to do much besides make unfunny quips while scolding people for making unfunny quips.
By sodapants
March 6, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this
You think I’m a teen? You don’t want my address, do you? Yikes. And no.. I don’t want to chat.
By Ice Man
March 6, 2007 12:24 AM | Link to this
Now you’ve lost me, chief. Get some sleep; you’re babbling.
By Brendan
March 6, 2007 12:35 AM | Link to this
Judging from Waddell’s comments, he didn’t seem to take the accolade all that seriously. I think he kinda laughed it off. He’s a nice guy. I think so, anyway. But in a private moment, I think even he’d tell you that he’s not in the same league with GM’s with multiple Cups to their resumes. Now, if the Thrashers actually won it all this year … goodness that can change things.
I think the preponderance of DW’s moves from preseason to the trade deadline have been good ones. But I don’t doubt that people think I’m a “Waddell hater.” Simply because I am critical of things he’s done in years past and for DARING to mention the word “accountability.” Good lord, there are mitigating factors at play. And I think “reasonable people” can see that.
But everybody’s got excuses. Who, in life, wanders around saying things like, “Nope. Everything’s pretty much my fault. I’m just not good. I lack judgement, frankly. And on top of that, I’m not too bright. I was dropped often as a child. Mom and Dad even tried suing the babysitter. And the therapist refused to treat me after the 3rd month.” Please say someone chuckled at that … so that I know that we’re not so uptight that two weeks later, we produced a diamond from a lump of coal. If strategically inserted.
Forbes is not a sports publication. I’m curious as to where Sports Illustrated or ESPN, the magazine might rank the GM’s from 1-30. Don Waddell isn’t last in the league. He’s really not. But it’s not in the top five, either. Wherever he is on that list, he’s climbing the latter.
This has been his best year. He’s markedly improved in the post-lockout years. But there are still valid points of criticism to make. I don’t see why a 7th year franchise’s average age should be over 30, for example. Or why the GM signs FREE AGENTS to put in the minors. But hey, just try to explain that to someone’s who’s had the Waddell can do no wrong kool-aid. They’ll label you a “hater” ‘cuz it’s easier for them to oversimply and stereotype. I hope Atlanta wins the Stanley Cup. If it happens, Waddell deserves a lot of credit for the bold moves he made at this deadline. He converted “average” draft picks into proven players to help this team reverse its fortunes and win. He made good trades, like Vishnevski for Belanger and Bourret for Dupuis. Gee, I’m a huge Waddell “hater,” right? Can’t be objective, right?
By ranallo10
March 6, 2007 12:39 AM | Link to this
Mommy, why is Daddy mad at us?
By Brendan
March 6, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this
I meant ladder. It’s late.
By Ice Man
March 6, 2007 12:45 AM | Link to this
Daddy left because of something you did.
By Dolie
March 6, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this
Funny enough, the latest issue of The Hockey News rates the GMs 1-30, and they have Waddell 19th. Sounds about right to me.
By Brendan
March 6, 2007 12:52 AM | Link to this
Actually, when it rains, God is crying … because of something I did.
By Ice Man
March 6, 2007 12:53 AM | Link to this
Dolie checking in with a little reality. Cut that out.
By Ice Man
March 6, 2007 12:55 AM | Link to this
Did you guys see the mean kids picking on me earlier?
By ranallo10
March 6, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this
I couldn’t disagree with the NHL side of success of GMs in the league, but I have to IMAGINE that the Forbes list was on to SOMETHING. Just assuming they did more work than most give them credit for, it’s fair to imagine that, with production compared to previous years in mind, the Thrashers would rank as one of the most improved (and consistently improving) teams in the NHL.
Is it easy to agree with top 5 best NHL GMs for Waddell? Clearly not EASY to agree with. But does his work give him SOME credibility, with the understanding that the financial aspect is the “unknown factor” in the entire argument?
I’d say Forbes didn’t pick random GMs to tote as “the best”…so maybe people are looking at it with too narrow of a spectrum.
By ranallo10
March 6, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this
PS - Ice Man, does your response make you Mommy or Daddy???
By Ice Man
March 6, 2007 1:00 AM | Link to this
I don’t know, dude, when a list starts with Kevin McHale … it starts poorly. The T’wolves are about one of the most underachieving teams pro sports. I barely get past McHale without saying, ‘By what criteria?!”
Didn’t McHale get the franchise in trouble in the Joe Smith fiasco? Or was that before he was the GM?
By Brendan
March 6, 2007 1:02 AM | Link to this
Dolie, at #19, that’s dangerously close to the “upper echelon” of the league. Well, if upper echelon begins at #21. Top third??
Geez Dolie, #19 sounds about right. You ‘hater,’ you! LOL. Where’s your objectivity! (Sarcasm.) I had him at about #15, plus or minus 4, depending on WHEN you ask me. While “fiddling” it’s less. After the deadline, it’s more.
By ranallo10
March 6, 2007 1:05 AM | Link to this
Ignore the other sports, hockey is all that matters for this argument.
It’s obvious the list is off when Billy Beane and John Schuerholz are out of the top 10. S**, even Epstein deserves to be higher than he is.
But to include the monetary side brings in another aspect that none of us seem to be able to fathom. The Timberwolves have been consistent UNDERachievers, with consistent failings in the playoffs. They locked up arguably the best position player in the game…give credit to a man when he deserves A LITTLE.
Besides, he gave up on Marbury before everyone in the NBA realized Marbury was a ball hog/bust.
But once again the NBA is off limits, it’s just a sport to keep the football players in shape during the offseason.
By Ice Man
March 6, 2007 1:09 AM | Link to this
Yeah, they locked up Garnett and surrounded him with crapola. Good work. Again, I don’t judge GMs by the layups, I judge them by the long-range shots.
But you’re right, all this NBA talk steals a piece of my soul.
By Brendan
March 6, 2007 1:12 AM | Link to this
ICEMAN, it’s probably of little consolation, but should you feel bad if someone comes here to argue that Superman can outrun the Flash? Or that Aquaman is a better swimmer than Superman?
This is what happens when anyone tries to argue a ridiculous premise. Things just detereorate quickly. LOL. Forbes is hardly the #1 magazine for Sports enthusiasts. If the Thrashers are well-run, financially, it’s new to me. But Congratulations are in order, if it’s true. Forbes probably knows what it’s talking about when it comes to money. Then again, how do they calculate or factor in all the “non-playoff revenue?” But … I’m tired of beating a dead horse. The good folks at P.E.T.A. will be sending me threating letters again.
By Ice Man
March 6, 2007 1:17 AM | Link to this
They need to invent a sarcasm font that lets people know, This is all in fun. …. But you write about swallowing a coffee mug and people get all bent out of shape: How dare you swallow a coffee mug!
I guess I’m just surprised at the things that make people angry. But this was a fun night, the most lively night of the blog all season. Spirited, even.
Big game tomorrow, eh.
By Tony C.
March 6, 2007 4:00 AM | Link to this
Wow
I mean I realize we’re all pretty much nerds (borne out by the fact we blog about a team we don’t play on)…but dayum
Y’all play nice!
LET’S GO BLUE !!!
By Jim
March 6, 2007 7:39 AM | Link to this
Iceman, Brendan, Brian- Please stick to sports side of hockey. You all have tripped into the side of business that you obviously know little about. Solid, sustainable businesses are built around a number of things but most would agree that the first piece of the foundation is “good people”. As the saying goes “you can’t builld chicken salad out of chicken s—-“. It appears to me that he has helped build a solid, competitive and sustainable product using a well thought out long term business plan. And, he has shown the ability to adjust it when problems arise. The proof is in the pudding. This team has improved yearly. The squabble for ownership and the values being thrown out by both sides clearly indicate that the value of this business has increased pretty dramatically since its inception. While I don’t know about the #6 ranking, it certainly does appear that he has done a very good, professional job of both managing and leading.
By Bob
March 6, 2007 8:36 AM | Link to this
Iceman, I was agreeing with you, my comments were in response to the guys that seemed to be taking this ranking seriously. I know you were being sarcastic, and took this ranking for what it’s worth, a grain of salt.
You’ve met Soda now, lucky you! He’s a good old sort, he’s just off his meds again, the nurse will get him calmed down soon (I kid, Sodapop!).
Iceman, to clue you in, in the slow times during the summers and last year, we used to go back and forth with Soda about how lame Waddell had been as GM (what with his 5 year plan that went bust, meaningful games in March hopes, his playoff guarantee that went bust last year, all the wasted draft picks, good players he let walk away for no return, etc.). Thus, the angst now when this is brought up.
But Sodapop is right, we’ve pined for years for the notorious “meaningful games in March”, we now have them, let’s get back on point and let the past stay where it belongs and get behind this club for a good run here. Thrash win and Tampa loss to the Canuckleheads tonight, and don’t look back.
By beau vighn
March 6, 2007 8:45 AM | Link to this
No where in any of my posts did I state that Hordichuk is the missing piece. I simply stated that I appreciated his hard nosed play and that I wish he had not been traded. Are you really Don Waddell responding? Face facts that you or your daddy Don are failures at being a GM.
By Tom
March 6, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this
I have not been the biggest Waddell fan, but I do have to give him props for getting Kari Lehtonen.
When Kari was drafted it was not a layup as some are calling it. In fact, Waddell was questioned by all types of media on why you would take an international goalie so early in the draft. I have to admit I watched that draft and even the announcers on ESPN were questioning his sanity.
So yes, Heatley and Kovi were layups, but Lehtonen was not.
IMHO, Waddell is an cautious GM. I was screaming for his head until the Tchakuk trade as I thought he was being too cautious instead of being aggressive. Once that trade happened, I have amended my opinion.
However, I think we need to see if Waddell will turtle up next year into his traditional approach or continue to be an aggressive GM going forward.
To me, when he traded for KT, he reminded me of the nerdy girl from school who got dressed up fancy for the prom in an 80’s Teen Movie and wowed them with her movie star good looks.
Waddell showed his potential to build a winner.
By Bob
March 6, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this
Well said, Tom. I also have amended my opinion on him, for now. The deadline moves he made were spot on, he fixed the PP, the PK, and made us stronger at even strength.
The proof long term is what moves he makes this summer, that’ll show if he finally gets it
By Ilya k
March 6, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
GM of a franchise is more than running a team. Marketing hockey in Atlanta is as much of the equation as putting together a group of players. As far as player moves go…..well I would have to wait until june to make that judgement. TWO WEEKS AGO THIS TEAM WAS A ONE AND DONE IF THEY MADE THE PLAYOFFS…..NOW.. WHO KNOWS… I EXPECT TO SEE THEM IN ROUND 2 OR 3 AND WOULD NOT BE SHOCKED IF THEY WON THE CUP.
By drew
March 6, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this
When talking about solids GMs, all we have to do is look 3 hours nw to Nashville and see the job David Poile has done with the Preds. Built the team through the draft, solid farm system in place w/good young players in the pipeline and some astute FA signings. Last time I looked they were tied w/Buffalo for the most points.
By Matt H
March 6, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this
Wow. Wish I had time to read all the fireballs up there right now. Just wanted to drop a quick thanks to Brian and Bob for their HD input (their HDMI?). It’s gonna be a year or two before I can afford to buy into that technology (unless I get a new job sooner rather than later) so I need to learn the landscape now. Brian, what’s the website where you can watch playoff games? Does nhl.com stream them? I know they do live audio.
Anyway, my 2 pennies is that the list is crap; but if it gets the Thrashers some good national press, then Hoo-rah for Forbes. There are some truly good GM’s on there (I know I can stand behind Feaster and McKay due to my Tampanian origins), but I think if you can call Glen Sather #12 in all of sports with his tenure with the Rangers, then you probably need different criteria.
By GaVaHokie
March 6, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
Attendance is dropping for the Braves… if it wasn’t for the big Home Depot billboard in Center Field and the giant Coke bottle in the upper deck, the Braves would be pennyless.
Attendance is rising for the Thrashers, they have plenty of advertising support, corporate suite support, a properly salary-balanced team with super stars… Waddell is on the competition committee and the U.S. Olympics general manager.
By GaVaHokie
March 6, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this
Futhermore, if the Thrashers make the playoffs this year, Waddell will be #3 on that list… if they win the Stanley Cup, I’d give him #1.
By Bob
March 6, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this
GaVaHokie, thanks for the laughs. I love it when my fellow HockeyHeads get this fired up.
Remember though that the Braves attendance matters, but not like the Thrashers. Baseball has a huge TV contract and each team shares in that revenue. The NHL, unfortunately, does not, so the large majority of the Thrashers revenue is tied to how many tix we buy. It’s why Hawks games can go unattended, and it’s still a viable franchise (as they also have a huge TV deal, don’t ask me why, I can’t stand watching the NBA).
So, attendance for the Braves doesn’t have the same affect on profitability as the Thrashers does.
By youareanidiot
March 6, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this
I am the only person that hates your blogs? I pray you don’t have this gig next year. Go cry now.
By GaVaHokie
March 6, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
And another thing, regarding Schuerholz, how about all the wasted contracts on guys like Grissom and Lofton and then letting guys like Javy Lopez and Glavine walk away?
Not a single player has left the Thrashers organization without an equal or better player coming the opposite direction.
By Ilya k
March 6, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
By yourareanidiot………….hmm if you hate something why go back for more. Maybe you should pray that you can stop hating! Stay away from tall buildings and sharp knives!
By GaVaHokie
March 6, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
Attendance means everything in sports, especially when so many teams rely on concessions and merchandise sales. Why do you think teams give out so many ticket promotions, buy-one-get-one, etc.? Because they want you to watch the team? No… they want you to buy a hotdog, beer and a jersey… and if you get a chance, watch the team.
By Ilya k
March 6, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this
Schuerholz………if you look at what he spent over the past 15/16 years..and only one WS champ. I would give the nod to Waddell. Selling seats is very important for a hockey franchise. Selling “being a hockey player” to a small child is even more important to a franchises future. Hockey draws from a hardcore base.
By GaVaHokie
March 6, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this
The Braves have been getting horrible ratings for years, you can’t say that TV contracts make the difference… the clincher for the Braves being sold was when they couldn’t fill the stands anymore. Trust me, when your team can’t sell jerseys and hotdogs anymore, they fail.
By Ilya k
March 6, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
HEY…….What does everyone think the Thrashers do in the playoffs? Comments??
By Bob
March 6, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
GaVaHokie, you’re just dead wrong on that. Baseball, Basketball, and Football all have huge TV contracts. Ticket sales are life or death to a hockey franchise. They don’t have nearly the effect on the other sports, because they get so much from their TV contracts.
Also, did you really mean to type this Not a single player has left the Thrashers organization without an equal or better player coming the opposite direction
You’re kidding, right? The litany of guys Waddell has let walk away for NOTHING in return is ridiculous (i.e. Steve Staios, Andrew Brunette, Frank Kaberle, et al).
Mabye you’re trying to say in trades, that he’s never traded away more for less? Cause he’s sure let plenty of guys walk away, for nothing!
By GaVaHokie
March 6, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this
Yes, I meant in trades… you can also add Donald Audette to the list. However, the majority of those players did not WANT to stay and demanded more money than the team was willing to offer. Let’s not even touch on Savard.
In hindsight, we don’t need those players anyway… Brunette being the best of the bunch and easily replaceable.
By GaVaHokie
March 6, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this
As far as TV contracts, Bob, what you’re talking about has nothing to do with GM’s anyway. You’re talking about league sharing among national contracts… MLB on ESPN or Sunday football on NBC… that’s handled by the commissioner.
By Ilya k
March 6, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
GaVaHokie…..what do you think the Thrash will to come playoff time??
By Bob
March 6, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
Oh, I see, yeah, the TV contract has nothing to do with Waddell’s abilities, didn’t know that’s what you meant. I thought you were talking about how important ticket sales are for the Bravos vs. Thrashers. So, you’re just pumping up Waddell (you probably also saw the poll and how many AJC readers voted for Schuerholtz? That has to simply be a function of baseball popularity vs. hockey).
If memory serves, I think he traded Audette, but he got some guy in return that turned into nothing, so I guess he let him walk too for nothing in return. How could I forget about Savard walking too?!
But I see your point, and I agree. Waddell’s strong point is in trading. Drafting, keeping impending UFA’s and signing UFA’s, not so much.
By GaVaHokie
March 6, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this
Audette was traded for Kamil Piros because he was destined for free agency. We offered him 2 years, $6 million with a 3rd year option of $3.5 million. He wanted more, and made sarcastic remarks saying, “yeah, because that team has a lot of goal scorers right now.”
He was an a*****.
By Brian
March 6, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this
As for attendence, don’t forget that the # of games and the size of the stadium clearly give baseball an advantage over hockey in terms of gate receipts. Avg price/seat favors hockey though.
As for DW’s abilities, he might change his stance in the UFA/RFA area as the team becomes a playoff contender. Who knows what he is going to do this summer, he has to change his strategy than in years past given the situation.
By sodapants
March 6, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this
Look at Bob … recalling all the hijinks those many moons ‘before’ the Ice Man commeth….
Regardless… the Thrashers aren’t looking for a playoff spot, they currently occupy one….and have for the entire season.
Bob, Russ and Co. have annoyed me for years with a plethora of nonsense about things, and surely I’ve annoyed them with my pom-poms, optimism and natural common sense (it’s a curse). The newby here isn’t me… or Bob.. or Russ.. or Russ’s ‘life partner’… heh… or Brendan, who is what us politicos call a “moderate”…. (moderates need confidence in their own opinions, in my opinion), and so on.
So who cares… at this point the Ice Man is just filling a roster spot. We were here before… and we’ll sure as hell be here after (unless we find something worthwhile to do). No offense, of course.
By five_hole
March 6, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this
GaVaHokie - If you think Waddell has always gotten the better end of the trade, I just have 1 trade for you to consider: Patrick Stephan for Niko Kappenan. (pass to Kovalchuk in the slot - he shoots - he SCORES!)
By Bob
March 6, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this
I don’t know which one is worse, Stefan or Kapanen. I think Stefan sucks worse by default due to the empty net miss from 3 feet earlier this year.
By Chris
March 6, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this
Take a look at the Thrashers’ peospects some time, guys. They have a top goalie prospect in juniors in Ondrej Pavelec, and another to guy in Bryan Little. The Flyers actually wanted Chad Denny, but they settled for Braydon Coburn, who Hartkey had pretty much given up on. Waddell’s a very good GM. This guy got Marc Savard for Ruslan Zainullin! Drafts in the NHL are always hit-or-miss, so I’ll take back-to-back-to-back picks of Heatley, Kovalchuk and Lehtonen. I’m not saying he’s the 6th-best GM in sports, but I’ll take him over Billy Knight and Rich McKay any day.
By Brendan
March 7, 2007 12:29 AM | Link to this
Bob, I’d rather have Stefan than Kapanen. I know. I know. It’s not exactly an “ideal” choice to have to make in the first place!
Chris, I also like Brett Sterling. I think he’s a “find” based on where he was drafted. (5th round, 145th overall, 2003. Played in the WCHA with Colorado College, which is a decent hockey program.) The guy was a Hobey Baker finalist. Don Waddell must have choked on his coffee when he saw the guy was still available.
I also hear good things about Jordan LaVallee. But truthfully, I’ve never seen him play. He was selected in the 4th round, 116th overall, in 2005. If these two guys become “staples” on the Thrashers roster in the coming years, I’ll ease up a bit on Waddell’s draft record.
It bothers me that the “net return” on the 1999 1st overall pick is … well … nothing. People can say, “we got Hossa and DeVries” for Heatley (2000). Fine. We got Zhitnik for Coburn (2003). Yes, that’s true. We got Dupuis for Bourret (2005). Okay. I’ll allow it. But what do we have for Stefan?
Now, you all know my policy. I don’t blame Waddell for Stefan. I also don’t praise him for Kovy or Lehtonen. Don’t make me tell you all the story of my Aunt Bertha again, who also came up with Kovalchuk as her choice of a draft pick in 2001.
Vancouver just beat Tampa Bay, 5-1. With the Thrashers win over the Cats, the Thrashers are back in 1st place in the SE Division. Let’s all just be “happy.” That’s cause for celebration.
By Brian
March 7, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this
Brendan - I think you have it that everyone had Stefan going #1, you can’t really blame DW for that one. I would’ve also liked to get more for him but after everyone else in the league saw what we saw, how can you? That’s like blaming the Chargers for not getting more for Ryan Leaf when everyone and their brother knows he was a bust.
As to who I’d rather have, I’m not sure because since we in essence got rid of Kapanen, it cleared up cap room. If we were stuck with Stefan and his salary, would we still have been able to make all the other moves we did at the deadline? Not sure on that one. Although I’m sure if we cut him someone would’ve pick him up.