Thrashers

By Jarndyce

December 11, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

My quick evaluation of goalie value:

Hedberg: Capable NHL backup who battles all the time. Great leader. Weak on positioning and reactions slowing. Lots of teams want a guy like that, but lots of teams already have one. Because of that, any return is not something that helps this team any more than building future depth.

Pavelec: Up and coming prospect. Big, quick, resilient. Still raw technically, but will likely be a capable of #1 duties next year. Many teams are looking for a player like this. Could return immediate help up front, or a top-round draft pick. Lots of downside risk with trading him, though, as the potential is there for him to become a top-flight netminder.

Lehtonen: Despite what some (ahem) people will say, Lehtonen is the best netminder in the system. A top talent now. If he played on a solid team, he’d be talked about among the league’s best. However, he has had the health issues that have slowed him down, and because of the team in front of him, is value is depressed. That said, Lehtonen could still bring a hefty return, with help now and in the future. But some team out there would be thrilled to get a steal with Lehtonen right now.

By Bob

December 11, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Guys, goalies bring little to no return, unfortunately. Look at the deals that have been made over the past couple of years, freakin’ Habs gave away Huet for example, and he’s head and shoulders above anyone we’ve got.

“I don’t get any calls,” the Thrashers general manager said. “This is all driven by the media. I think teams realize our situation. He’s the face of our franchise. Nobody’s even called and said, ‘Are you going to trade Ilya?’ It hasn’t happened.”

Yeah right. Does anyone believe anything out of this guy’s mouth anymore? He’s the proverbial boy who cried wolf

I keyed on a couple things out of your article today, Mike. First this made me a bit sad: By not losing until Scott Gomez’s goal 18 seconds into overtime, the Thrashers salvaged a point in the standings

We celebrate “not losing until…overtime” now.

Also, I forget who calls him “Coach Sunshine” but he certainly tried here didn’t he: “Boris made a great play,” Thrashers coach John Anderson said. “It was good vision. It shows that he’s growing as a player.”

Uh, Coach, the game was in High Def last night (very cool!) and they showed the replay a couple times, Boris never saw Ilya, he had his head down and threw a blind pass to the front of the net, that was a case of your best player being in the right place at the right time.

That said, I did think Valabik played a much better game, mabye the best game I’ve seen him play for us or Chicago.

By jnes

December 11, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

Maybe it is just me, but hearing DW deny anything only makes me believe it is true.

“Zhitnik will be a big part of our defensive group next season.”

—Ring a bell?

By Andy S

December 11, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

Bob: Boris never saw Ilya, he had his head down and threw a blind pass to the front of the net

Ok, so it wasn’t just me that noticed that; I double-checked it (in SD) on my TiVo. However, he’s a rookie defenseman on a call-up, and not paid for his scoring prowess. His job at the offensive blue line is pretty simple, to keep loose pucks in the zone and get it down low or on net. The fact that he did that, rather than try to handle the puck and get robbed by a forward, is a good sign.

By Nikita

December 11, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

As to goalies…I think it all depends on how healthy Kari is, because he’s by far the most capable. Moose is both slow and small (though when he’s on, he’s on) and Pavelec’s technique needs work (among other things, his butterfly is so flat as to leave most of the net wide open) and apparently he and his agent are going to agitate as if he doesn’t.

But…there’s nothing wrong with having three capable goalies. Most of the top-flight teams we’re up against have that kind of depth. And since Lehtonen is on a one-year contract, and is slightly undervalued, it might actually be the better deal just to let him slide into free agency as Pavs becomes competent enough to take the #1 slot. Unless our fearless GM can trade for an undervalued player in a position where it will help us.

Also, I don’t think Moose will ever be traded. He’s not a top-tier goalie. He never was. He’s always been a good mentor and solid on fundamentals, and I suspect he will eventually join the coaching or front office staff. Solid in goal, generally, but unspectacular. He’s still playing, among other things, because the people in front of him aren’t dependable. But I would bet that if we select a starting goalie, he will retire from the ice.

We should be trading Erik Christensen and Garnet Exelby.

as to other stuff:

Boris is improving. But improving on dismal doesn’t necessarily make one great. His skating is much improved — he doesn’t look like a traffic cone any more, and is not taking stupid penalties for being slow, big, and out of position. Which may be good enough for now.

That said, the entire team is improving in its current configuration. The Kovalchuk #2 is working surprisingly well, as is the banger line. Now, if we can get the Little White Russian Line back to scoring, it’ll be awesome.

By GaVaHokie

December 11, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

I’d like to see us move Lehtonen and then find a way to bring in Valiquette next summer (UFA)… he looked great against us last night. Love a goalie with good size.

Then I’d trade Hedberg at the draft… start next season with Pavelec and Valiquette.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 11, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this

I guess we’ll find out how true this is or is not. Since we’re nitpicking comments, at what point will people consider him a liar or deceiver regarding these comments?

Let’s say Kovalchuk demands a trade…will people hold Waddell responsible after the trade is made due to Waddell saying “He’s the cornerstone of this franchise. He’s not going anywhere.”?

I’m just curious, because history shows it will happen. It happened with Hossa.

By Brett

December 11, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Kovy is as good as gone if Waddell made it clear that Kovy isn’t going to be traded. Sound familiar?

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 11, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Andy S — Such plays happen when a player knows where his teammate is supposed to be. I didn’t see the play, so I can only assume he was passing with some informed hope (i.e., thinking “put it in front of the net, someone should be there to put it home”). Those types of passes happen all the time, and sometimes result in a goal. This time it did.

By Hockeyfan

December 11, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Hey Mike what was it the Don said to you when you first got the Thrashers gig? Something about Zhitnik not going anywhere because he played an important part on our D… Do you believe the Don this time?

By Russian

December 11, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

First of all, I do not think that Don will trade Kovy this season. No way. Look the scenario if He will trede Kovy now. He will ask First Line Forward. What is team give it to him? Every other team needs score Forwards. If he ask to first pick on Draft that nobody know how is good First pick will be in future. My opinion that keep Kovy until end of the season and talk to his agent at July 1. I hope it will be new GM is talking. About trade our Goalies. No way. Do not trade anybody. Kari is good when he is healthy. Moose is good back up. Pavs need to practice more in NHL. Do not touch the Goalies. It will bestupid idea. Someone said alredy that we did not get something good for goalies. Who is going to be trade??? My first candidate - Schnider. He is old, expensive and nothing good for team. Oystrick and Valabik started to play much better. Plus Bogus will be coming back soon. Second Candidate - Crusher. He is not talented for First center and we have lot of third line forwards. Third - Williams. Small, always lost battle in corners. Same position as Perrin. Slater can go also. He is not improve anything. We have same skills and speed in Chicago.

By Mike Knobler

December 11, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Hockeyfan First of all, deciding whom to believe really isn’t my main job. I’m supposed to ask questions, report answers and give you the information to decide whom to believe. Having said that, I will add that in this case, I see things the way Russian does. It’s hard to imagine the Thrashers getting enough in return to justify a trade before the deadline.

By Mike Knobler

December 11, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Bob in fairness to the team, the sentence that made you a bit sad was mine, not theirs. They were not a happy bunch last night. I think when you’ve covered a team that has gone 2-7-1 in its last 10 games, anything that doesn’t add to the “7” looks like a positive. Yes, the Rangers were a struggling team heading into last night’s game, but they were a struggling division leader. I saw a point against that team as an improvement over what the Thrashers have been doing, and I wrote that. The quote from Hedberg later in the story tells you more about the way the team felt.

Big challenge Friday and Saturday. Note that the talk is very different over on a Bruins blog from before Wednesday night.

By Sam

December 11, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

I think Ilya’s smile and enthusiasm spoke volumes to the fans last night that he does want to be here, at least for now.

By Alan

December 11, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

But improving on dismal doesn’t necessarily make one great.

People said the same thing about Chara. Look at him now.

Enjoy watching our own monster improve and develop instead of tearing him down. He looks a whole hell of a lot better now than he did earlier this year.

By Trip

December 11, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Trade Lehtonen, Williams, Perrin, and Exelby NOW !!!!

……..bring up 2 kids “like Crabb” (that are hungry) from the Wolves Organ-i-zation (take your pick: Hoffman, Lavallee, Sterling, Mozko) and give them a chance, beats the “lackluster” attitudes and performances of the afforementioned….especially Williams, did you see his “gliding” across the ice and puck handling last night? Lame !!!!

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 11, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Alan — Very true. More recently, people said the same things about Coburn…Wolves and Thrashers fans included.

By Alan

December 11, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

Indeed, ranallo. I just don’t like to see that sort of thing. You know, now is the perfect time to give a kid like him time in the NHL to develop. Let’s face it — this year, we stink. He looked disoriented at the end of last year, but better than he looked in Chicago. Early this year (preseason) was the same story. Now? He looks very much improved in comparison.

People have to remember that it took Chara over a year in the NHL to really become a formidable force for the Bruins. We have our own Chara right here, and when he really starts to get the feel for the NHL, watch out! We’ve only seen a small fraction of what this kid is capable of.

With each passing game, he looks better and better. He’s also playing in a system he’s familiar with, which is always a plus.

Speaking of systems, Kovalchuk really looks like he’s bought into the system, while some of our other guys seem to be struggling with it. A prime example is the play Kovalchuk made last night, trying to get Enstrom the puck in front of the net. Instead, Enstrom was skating away from the net. Had he stayed put, that could have been the difference between one and two points in the standings.

By GaVaHokie

December 11, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Schneider, Perrin and Christensen would be my candidates for trade… I think you could get a Vermette or Gionta for them… maybe Jason Blake… Afinogenov…

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 11, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Alan — People also seem to forget that Chara was an unproven prospect when traded his first time, and blossomed in Ottawa (who was not the team that drafted him).

Milbury looks like an idiot now for trading Chara. Many people consider Waddell an idiot for trading Coburn.

Hopefully Waddell doesn’t make that same mistake with Valabik. Give the kid time, he’ll come around.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 11, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

Hokie — I think the value of the three players you mentioned is lower than the return you assume they could bring.

But, any of the players you mentioned would be more than welcome in Atlanta, in my opinion.

By Bob

December 11, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Bob in fairness to the team, the sentence that made you a bit sad was mine, not theirs

I know, that’s the way I read it. That’s what I meant, we (me included) were happy that they at least got to overtime. That’s really a pretty sad state of affairs.

Re. Valabik, I agree he’s playing better (couldn’t play much worse, but at least he’s improving). But for Coach to say “it was good vision” was just silly, Boris never saw him, he had his head down and threw a blind pass towards the net. I found that funny as it made me remember someone’s Coach Sunshine comment about him, and I like Coach, nothing wrong with it, but that was blowing a little sunshine up our keisters, eh?

By Alan

December 11, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

With as dismal a year as we’re having so far, Bob, we could probably use a little sunshine. I agree, it most certainly wasn’t “good vision,” but it was still a good play, and Kovalchuk capitalized on the Rangers inability to cover or clear the puck from the crease.

By Russian

December 11, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

to Hokie No Gionta or Vermette for us. No way. But Crazy Max may get it here. Coach is not happy with his play right now and they said already that Managment did not want to see him i next year. Blake is not a good choise, I will take Antropov from Toronto.

By Jarndyce

December 11, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

GaVa: The esteemed Ranallo is right. Remember that Scheider cleared waivers. GM already had a shot at him for free, and passed. Christiansen has a shoulder situation that will take months to correct itself (trust me, I had the same issue from a football injury, and my wing as never been the same). Perrin is a valuable role player, to be sure, but he’s just a role player.

Not a lot of return on those guys. You could probably get a 4th or 5th for Perrin. Christiansen maybe the same or a little higher if healthy. Very little for Schneider because of his salary. I’m happy to keep Schneider here, though, once he’s ready to play again.

By Sara

December 11, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Bob is correct that the goalie market is blech. Aside from the Huet for a 2nd round pick at the deadline, Bryzgalov ended up on waivers last year because Burke couldn’t apparently even get someone to give him a draft pick for the guy. That said, Waddell indicated he got offered a nice package this off-season for Pavs and declined it. Course, whether or not that matters to you is predicated on whether or not you believe Waddell is 100% full of poop. It’s possible if a playoff-bound team loses their started to injury close to the deadline, the market might suddenly improve. But you could play the IF game for eons.

Schneider, Reasoner, and Williams might all have potential value to another team at the trade deadline. How much value will be based on what other options are in the market and of course how desperate other teams might be to acquire additional depth. Schneids likely has the most value - Reasoner and Williams might each bring something modest but given we have lots of “modest” who knows. Crusher will be harder to move IMO with this recurring shoulder issue.

Ranallo you must have your facts wrong about Millbury because everyone knows only Don Waddell makes bad trades or FA signings. Those things don’t happen anywhere else. :P

By Jim

December 11, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

A couple of weeks ago, it was report that Anderson forced a meeting with DW presumably to ask for some changes. Now looks like DW wanted to further season some of the “dead wood” (Exelby, Schneider, Christensen, Williams, Perrin) and told him to simple “re-arrange the deck chairs”. Crabb is playing well. Stuart and Lavallee played well last year in their brief call-ups. What in the world is DW waiting for? Give the kids a chance. Give us a break, DW.

By GaVaHokie

December 11, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Jarndyce… Schneider cleared waivers because no one could afford to take him full price. Most teams were willing to trade for him, but Anaheim was against the cap and couldn’t take anything in return… only teams with cap space (like Atlanta) were players in the Schneider sweeps.

Ranallo… Besides Vermette, I specifically chose players with UFA status this summer… technically we’d be throwing away an RFA in Christensen. So giving up a RFA like Christensen with Schneider at half price (Ottawa and NJ wanting more veteran D) I think would be fair enough… IMO.

By NASCAR Dave

December 11, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Yep… People are waking up it seems… Even our esteemed GAVA…

SLATER/PERRIN/CHRISTENA/HEDBERG/SCHENEIDER are the ones who need to go…

By Russian

December 11, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

to Nascar I like to add Williams and Havelid or Ex to your list. Moose is a big question to move. He is not bad as back up

By Fred

December 11, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Until such time as ownership will make a financial commitment to winning - what does it really matter?

I hate saying it, but I have almost 10 years of historical data to back it up!

By MB

December 11, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

I think you hold off until the deadline and then look to sell a package centered around Kozzy. I know, we all like Slava and it looks like he’s having a bit of a comeback year, but that’s exactly why now’s the time to trade him. If all you’re willing to deal away is the Christensens and the Reasoners, et al, then that’s all you’re going to get in return.

Offer Kozzy with any combination of Hedberg, Schneider, Exelby, and/or any of our “expendable fill-in-the-blank forwards (those not named Kovalchuk or Little…let coach sort ‘em out), and hope that there’s a team out there that needs the help we’re offering.

Coming back on D you’d have Havelid, Hainsey, Enstrom, Bogo, Oystrick, then your choice of Valabik/Kulda/Lewis/Denny and, who knows, maybe Victor Hedman joining the fold. That’s not a bad group.

Forwards? Well, that’s another issue entirely. Arguably, we have 9 or 10 third and fourth liners. IMHO, we need two legitimate top sixers to get this thing headed in the right direction. I’d prefer to see Kovy with two new, capable linemates and see Little, White, and maybe Lavallee give it a try on the second line.

What remains to be seen is who will need help at the deadline, whether or not teams will need to jettison payroll if the cap decreases, and whether or not the ASG is willing to open the coffers a bit.

By Bag of Salt

December 11, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Whenever Dave says something, take it with one of me. He’s like a broken record in an empty room.

By GaVaHokie

December 11, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Yep… People are waking up it seems… Even our esteemed GAVA…

I don’t think they’re bad players, just not the right chemistry. Just ask Tampa Bay… great players… wrong chemistry.

With the emergence of Oystrick and Valabik, I think we can do without Schneider… he’ll be a very valuable trade piece come March.

I’m excited at the possibility of turning Klee and Larsen into Schneider who then turns into a roster player, a prospect and a draft pick at the deadline.

By Nikita

December 11, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

I don’t agree on Perrin. Perrin was our third highest scorer last year, and he’s producing this year albeit at a lower level. This year he has been deployed in so many different positions and roles that he has yet to have consistent linemates for any stretch, even on special teams. But, that said, he’s adjusting fairly well to the system, and is good at going to the net as well as a playmaker for his linemates. We know what he can do, and it’s more valuable than his salary. Trading him would be ridiculous.

Schneider isn’t worth much right now, will have his contract expire at the end of the year, and was improving statistically. His skills are already top notch. He’s not worth trading, unless we can trade him at a premium at the deadline to a team who needs him for the postseason.

Slater…maybe. I said earlier that I don’t think Atlanta can develop him, but I feel somewhat proven wrong by his line’s recent performance. That said, he’s a good piece but maybe not a piece we need to keep.

Statistically speaking, and reflecting also upon historically speaking, Exelby and Christensen are the most obvious trades. Havelid might be a good trade closer to the deadline, once we’ve established whether or not he can adjust to the system.

Switching gears, the reason I don’t like Valabik is his poor judgment and meanness. If we can break him of both, then I’ll change my opinion.

By GaVaHokie

December 11, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Until such time as ownership will make a financial commitment to winning - what does it really matter?

I hate saying it, but I have almost 10 years of historical data to back it up!

Well, in all fairness, we didn’t have the same ownership for all 10 years… in fact, AOL only allowed Waddell to spend $28 million a year the first 4 years and that was during the non-salary cap era.

MB… Kozlov has a no-trade clause.

By ww5

December 11, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

a dw denial is the kiss of death for kovy

By Brendan

December 11, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Well … let’s take a good, hard look at the situation, folks. If you were Don Waddell, would you trade Kovalchuk?

Who said, “Yes.” Who said yes??

If Don does that, he might as well hand in his resignation at the same time. Any movement of Kovalchuk, barring an utter FLEECING of the other team, which we know isn’t likely, will be met with TREMENDOUS backlash and resentment by the people who supply SEVENTY-SIX PERCENT (76%) of this team’s revenue. (That’s the ticket purchasing Atlanta public.)

Ohh, perhaps a few Kovy-haters will be happy. Or, at least, they think they’ll be happier with Kovaclhuk gone. But DW cannot trade Kovalchuk prior to July 1, 2009. That’s the point where Kovy’s camp can tell him to “pound sand.” If that’s Grossman’s stance on re-signing, then Waddell may not wait until the 2010 trade dealine to move Kovalchuk. Once Waddell knows, with certainty, that Kovy won’t re-sign, he can start to field offers for Kovalchuk. The offers might be slightly better in July 2009 than Feb/March 2010, but not by much. Kovalchuk can still bolt from the “traded to” team in the 2010 offseason.

It’s my opinion that Kovalchuk actually wants to re-sign here. But he won’t, until Waddell is removed from the decision-making process. Kovalchuk can’t come out and say that. That, right there, would “label him” in such a way that might brand him forever. Now, I’d bet that Kovalchuk wishes for different ownership, too. But that’s not going to happen, without a definitive ruling in the lawsuit. And that’s not expected prior to 2011. So, Step #1 for Kovalchuk retention is, at a bare-bones minimum, the firing of Don Waddell. Step #2 is the hiring of someone capable enough to resurrect the franchise.

Firing Waddell and replacing him with Pucks-N-Snot isn’t really a solution, for Kovalchuk’s retention. But the point is … Kovy sees the GM position as a source of constant failure since 1999, without consequence. I imagine that, in Kovy’s view of things, this reflects an egregious error in ownership judgement. If the ownership doesn’t correct AT LEAST that much, Kovalchuk will leave.

There is another touchy subject at play, here. Which is? Well, at some point in the negotiations, Kovalchuk or Jay Grossman (his agent) have to tell Waddell, to his face, “We won’t re-sign until you resign.

Actually, that’s kind of a catchy slogan!! That’s the T-shirt that should be made and circulated throughout Philips Arena.” The front should be a picture of Kovalchuk skating towards the zamboni doors … and underneath it should read, “If you want to keep me …,” and on the back of the shirt it continues, We won’t re-sign until you resign, with Waddell’s picture underneath it.

By Thrashy Thrashy

December 11, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

It was good vision by Valabik. He saw the glint of Kovy’s visor flash off his stick and, owing to this innate sense of skill and timing, put the puck perfectly on Ilya’s tape. Valabik is one of a select few hockey gods capable of such a heroic feat.

Seriously, Valabik looks pretty good out there. He’ll never be fast, but the man is doing his job well. He knows what Anderson wants from him. That’s why the clue he has found continues to get better. It’s hard to complain about the gigantic 22-year-old defensemen being a +2 in nine games on this club.

By MB

December 11, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the reminder on Slava’s NTC, GVH. I forget about that thing just about every year when I look at expendable players who might actually bring a decent return. So much for my grand plan.

By Bob

December 11, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Schneider who then turns into a roster player, a prospect and a draft pick at the deadline

Dude. A magician couldn’t turn Schneider into that windfall.

Schneider will be traded at the deadline, but the most you can hope for in return is a 2nd or 3rd round pick OR a middling prospect. I remember Campbell brought a pretty good return, but this ain’t Campbell, Schneider is a piece, not a centerpiece.

By dhj_1962

December 11, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

BCS line is awesome….whoooohooooo

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 11, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Nikita — Perrin has value in a trade, something you must give away if you want to get something in return. I understand why you like him, which is the same reason other teams would like him. Combine Perrin with a decent prospect, and you could get an improvement. Trade away Perrin straight up and you could get a decent pick (I’d guess 3rd round max).

The point is, and always will be, you have to give a good player(s) to get anything substantial in return. Not many teams will allow you to pawn off your junk players in return for something valuable.

Thus, if every fan is fed up with Exelby, Christensen, Williams, etc…what makes you think those players would garner any sort of useful player in return? Last time I checked Milbury and Ferguson Jr. weren’t NHL GMs…so I don’t think there are many crappy GMs left to sell crap players for can’t miss prospects.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 11, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Schneider will be traded at the deadline, but the most you can hope for in return is a 2nd or 3rd round pick OR a middling prospect.

I agree, but that’s still a pretty decent return for a parking cone, a grinder, and an unranked prospect from the ECHL. If the pick turns into another middling prospect, it can be considered a wash.

By GaVaHokie

December 11, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Schneider will be traded at the deadline, but the most you can hope for in return is a 2nd or 3rd round pick OR a middling prospect. I remember Campbell brought a pretty good return, but this ain’t Campbell, Schneider is a piece, not a centerpiece.

Someone will overpay… might not be the level of a Hossa trade, but we’ll get more than we deserve for him.

Hell, I’ll take Kyle Wellwood and a 2nd rounder and be happy.

By Nikita

December 11, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

I understand you must trade something of value, but that’s partially why I think trading someone like Havelid (highly valuable for the correct type of team) might be a good move at the right juncture. I don’t think, if we’re aiming at this being a build year, that trading away one of our hardest working, most versatile, system-getting, undervalued, playmaking, and durable players is a good idea. Keep Eric Perrin. We’ll need him in a year or two.

IMO, we should only trade for the following reasons: 1. when we cannot use a player or use a player properly (I don’t think we can use Eric Christensen, even if he is healthy, and I remain skeptical about Jim Slater. I might feel the same way about our goalies if we had dependable developing talent behind Pavs), 2. When a player has an immediate and obvious advantage for someone else, and less value for your team at the point when you need them (Havelid) 3. When you have a dire issue or an obvious hole, and a replaceable player. 4. When trading represents more value than allowing the contract to expire.

By Bird S**

December 11, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

How about we trade Atlanta Spirit for McDavid, and call it even?

By Sara

December 11, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

Brendan your argument could just as easily read “Kovy wants to re-sign here but he won’t until the owners commit to spending the money to get him comparable linemates.” Changing out one GM for another does not solve problem #2, which is the biggest hindrance of all. Unless we snag Tavares and he is NHL ready next season + Esposito is NHL-ready next season and has the goods, no more money = no more 1st line players. In this case, “show me the money” for Kovy is about more than his own paycheck.

As for the trading Kovy issue, my opinion on things at this point is to let it ride until next season. There are a lot of potential avenues to explore between now and next season. The deadline could bring some interesting results. We can preliminarily speculate, but until we get close and know what teams are in the market and what players are on the market, it’s impossible to rule out getting stellar returns or no returns. We have no idea where we will fall in the draft - even a last place finish does not guarantee this team the overall pick. Even losing the lottery draft and picking second overall doesn’t mean we can’t still get Tavares if the team drafting first needs a D more and want Hedman. There is no telling what might happen with the cap this off-season given the wonky economy. Some teams may be forced to sell, others may be forced to stay idle or make small upgrades, leaving a team like ATL with lots of cap space a more clear path to signing or trading for a really good player (assuming anyone intends to ever foot the bill). Point being, there’s lots of “ifs” that could improve the team significantly that do not involve moving Kovy and those ifs can be answered before it would be “crisis point” to make a decision on him. And there’s everyone’s favorite “if” which is “if” there’s a new GM something totally wonderful will happen. Flowers will sprout up all over ATL, birds will be singing, manna will rain down from the heavens, and they will already start engraving the 2009-2010 Atlanta Thrashers on the Stanley Cup. Ok, that was extravagant sarcasm I’ll admit it. But the visual image was still funny - at least to me - and as long as I’m entertained it’s good. :D

By Toby

December 11, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

Done Bird

I really think we need to have as many Wolves come up as possible. Trade Williams, Slater, EC, Army, Schneider, Havelid, and Thorburn for prospects and play the Wolves and other prospects. The young guys are playing better now anyway.

By Thom

December 11, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

the Kings could use a goalie and the trashers need a good defenseman, Humm Armstrong is riding the pine in LA, ick him up…. a veteran defenseman for a goalie, what at novel idea

By O'brien

December 11, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

I wonder if David McDavid would have fired Teflon Don by now? Seriously, how much losing must the fans endure before a change is made. Is DW hockey’s version of the Lions’ Matt Millen?

By R. Stroz

December 11, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

And there’s everyone’s favorite “if” which is “if” there’s a new GM something totally wonderful will happen. Flowers will sprout up all over ATL, birds will be singing, manna will rain down from the heavens, and they will already start engraving the 2009-2010 Atlanta Thrashers on the Stanley Cup.

I bet Falcons fans feel this way since they found a good GM.

By Alan

December 11, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

Seriously, how much losing must the fans endure before a change is made.

Judging by the actions of the ASG thus far, “Not enough” seems to be the answer.

Is DW hockey’s version of the Lions’ Matt Millen?

Well… we’re not 0-13. And we’re not even on pace to be any worse than the 1992-93 Sens ((W-L-T) 10-70-4), 1980-81 Jets (9-57-14), or 1974-75 Caps (8-67-5)… so we have that going for us.

Gotta find a “bright side” somehow, right?

For now.

By LAC

December 11, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Liked Hossa’s comments on NHL.com… Sure can read what he thinks about Atlanta in it ! Just more salt on the wound that is don waddell and asg… A losing conbo for years to come !

Detroit has been one of the best teams for many years,” he said. “Nothing but winning is acceptable.

“It’s been a great experience for me. We go into every game expecting to win. It’s a great feeling.”

Read that folks, NOTHING but WINNING is acceptable… Only being in the NHL matters here, winning does NOT, if it did we would be a LOT better than this after 1999, don waddell GO AWAY !

By Brendan

December 11, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

Sara, I see your point entirely. But I urge you to consider this: At what point should there be consequences for the GM position? (A) One month, (B) One Year, (C) Two Years, (D) why EVER change the GM? Just hand Waddell the lifetime contract. It ends when Waddell doesn’t feel like collecting a paycheck anymore. When should there be a change??

I’m sure Kovalchuk is ‘troubled’ by the budget (which isn’t set by the GM). I’m sure Kovalchuk has seen the desperate promotions (not necessarily conceived by the GM). I’m sure Kovalchuk noticed that the team went 76 games last year without naming a Head Coach. I’m sure Kovalchuk noticed that Marian Hossa wouldn’t re-sign. I’m sure Kovalchuk noticed that his primary setup man, Marc Savard, departed the organization with nothing by way of compensation. I’m sure Kovalchuk noticed that the 2007 Trade deadline moves proved ineffective.

I really, really, really doubt that any member of the AS, LLC conceived those moves. What Levenson, Gearon, Seydell, Pescowitz, and Turner don’t know about hockey … could fill a warehouse. From my perspective, I think the ownership defers to Waddell’s judgement entirely. I do think the ownership says things like, “Fix it, Don. You say we need a Center. We’ll authorize it. Get it done. Make the moves necessary to go deep into the playoffs.” That’s what the 2007 trade deadline moves were all about. When they didn’t work, and Hartley lost the room, and our strategy desperately needed to be re-worked and wasn’t, that was the time to CLEAN HOUSE. We didn’t just miss that boat, it’s left port and circumnavigated the globe.

Meanwhile, the “faithful” huddle on the pier, shivering in blankets, hoping that the ship will finally return to port. The ownership’s handling of the GM position transcended ‘ridiculous’ quite a while ago. At least from a sports perspective.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 12, 2008 4:46 AM | Link to this

The ownership’s handling of the GM position transcended ‘ridiculous’ quite a while ago.

And the point is, what makes you think things will change once they find a new GM?

I’m not against firing Waddell. However, I’m firmly convinced that whomever replaces him will be another “ASG guy”, as they’re the idiots conducting the interview at this point.

If they were to go the route I would suggest and hire a person in an advisory role (let’s say Fletcher for argument’s sake), that adviser would likely be the person doing the bulk of interviewing. In that situation, I would trust the replacement GM to have a chance to succeed in Atlanta with the ASG as their owners.

However, I don’t see the ASG being that bright (to hire a hockey adviser), nor do I think they care. I think they’re content with Waddell as GM, and if they hire a replacement they’ll find another manager similarly qualified.

To get some context…how long has it taken the MLSE to hire a competent GM? The difference between the MLSE and the ASG, to me, is passion. Both are groups of rich idiots, but at least the MLSE cares about the on-ice product. Thus far, it appears the ASG does not.

Will that change with a new GM in place? I don’t think so.

By Sara

December 12, 2008 7:40 AM | Link to this

Stroz unfortunately Arthur Blank >>>>>>>> ASG. By comparison, the Hawks also got a new GM…how’s that working out? (Notice also they only got a new GM after the old one decided to go head-to-head with his bosses over a decision he didn’t like. Billy Knight didn’t get fired because his team blew chunks, he got fired for rocking the boat…which tells the entire story pretty much in a nutshell.)

ranallo from everything I’ve read over the years from TO fans, I actually get the distinct impression MLSE don’t really seem to care one iota about the on-ice product. That organization is supposedly one of the biggest revenue generators in the league but you can’t tell it by the performance of the club. And when Burke made his “acceptance speech,” there was plenty of reading between the lines going on. Something about being aware he was spending someone else’s money and being responsible with it.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 12, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this

Sara — True, but I take their recent actions as a true understanding on their part that they need to IMPROVE in order to appease fans.

They hired a hockey adviser, the adviser ran the team while they did an extensive GM search, which ultimately gave them a highly regarded GM. The success of such a decision is yet to be realized, but I’m sure most people could agree that Burke is leaps and bounds better than Ferguson Jr.

Thus, they’ve proven to me with their actions that they care about the product they put on the ice. If they would’ve continued the employment of Ferguson Jr with no end in sight, they would be as bad as the ASG in my opinion. They, however, fired Ferguson Jr. (rightfully), fired Maurice (also rightfully, in my opinion), and hired the best options available.

Wilson and Burke both come with some baggage, but they’re both good at what they do. I understand the issues the actions of the MLSE have brought on in the past, but their most recent actions show they care about the team. The MLSE) made steps to improve their team…the ASG has not.

It sucks to say this, but at this point MLSE>>>>>ASG, and most likely always will be.

By Bob

December 12, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

lol, the 2 of you are just as intrenched in indefensible positions as the UAW union.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 12, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Take a gander at your idol Schultz’s most recent blog. You’ll notice that us two aren’t the only people placing blame primarily on the ownership group.

Mismanagement of underperforming employees falls at the feet of ownership. It’s that simple. If Waddell is the death of hockey in Atlanta, why is he still employed? If he’s the worst GM in the history of the NHL…why has he been employed for 10 years now?

Look past the tree, take a gander at the entire forest.

By Sage of Bluesland

December 12, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

I’ve got to agree with Ranallo on that point: It’s the ownership which keeps that lisping, fraudulent buffoon (Waddell) in place as GM—despite nearly ten years of evidence of underperformance and countless failed promises.

Ownership keeps the incompetence continuing—but it’s the fans who pay the bills. Thus, the only way to effect real change is to STOP SUBSIDIZING THE INCOMPETENCE.

Stop putting money into these owners’ pockets. They do NOT deserve it. They do NOT care about doing what it takes to consistently win. They have proven this with their actions (foremost among them keeping that idiot Waddell employed).

Stop enabling them—if you care about ‘winning’ hockey in Atlanta, that is…

By Brad

December 12, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

FIRE WADDELL There is a solution. He is awful. We never get better we always just hover around things. The only thing he ever does well, occasionally, is signing grinders to play on the 3rd or 4th lines. HE IS RUINING THIS FRANCHISE.

The Atlanta Spirit also is awful but Waddell is terrible.

By Brendan

December 12, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

What if … it’s just a case of the owners being wholly ignorant? In other words, the AS, LLC cares, but they think Don Waddell hung the moon, and that these “setbacks” are merely temporary?

Still with me? Well, the moment they fire Waddell … it represents the epiphany that they weren’t right about Waddell hanging the moon. They were mistaken in the assessment of him. Let’s continue it further. The “new” GM still has to do whatever the owners say, right? At least in terms of budget and operating expenses.

Still with me? Well, what if the new “puppet” GM actually ISSSSS a better GM than Waddell? Did you follow all that? Yes, this new GM still has the same bozo ownership, but the lackey’s judgement is BETTER than Waddell’s. And perhaps, that leads to better drafting, better contract negotiations and signings, better trades, etc. Yes, in spite of the poor ownership. (Think David Poile, only completely unknown and unheralded.)

Why is that not worth trying? Waddell’s record is that of proven failure. There’s no mystery about that. Even though some of it wasn’t his fault. When the AS, LLC realizes they must change the GM position, it opens up the possibility for better judgement from the next GM, even though that GM will be just as shackled as Waddell is/was. It still reflects an opportunity for better judgement to take place. I think that is definitely worth trying.

By Brendan

December 12, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Seriously, I doubt the AS, LLC drives ANNNNY of the hockey moves. They wouldn’t know where to start? They defer to the GM. In the present tense, that’s Waddell. In the future, it’s some other GM.

By jeff

December 13, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

Please give us an update on Kari??

By Chris

December 13, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

As a Caps fan I hope AS, LLC keeps Waddell…that’s one less team we ever have to worry about down the stretch… but as ahockey fan I hope they wisen up and fire him, or we may be looking at the Winnipeg Thrashers. Afterall, Atlanta lost it’s two previous teams to Canada (Flames and Knights). You guys really need to just start the “fire Waddell” chant at Philips. It worked when we did it with Hanlon, and was great when the NYR did it to Sather.