AJC > Sports > Thrashers > Blog > Archives > 2008 > September > 26 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USSchneider comes with no down side
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
I’m re-topping what I wrote earlier to put the focus squarely on the big story. The acquisition of Mathieu Schneider comes with basically no down side (of course, I’m not the guy writing the paychecks).
The trade looks like a three-for-one in name only. Really, the key part was Schneider’s one year at $5.6 million for Ken Klee’s one year at $1.25 million. The Thrashers actually have more flexibility after the deal than they did before it; they don’t have to worry about the $40.7 million payroll floor, and they still are well under the cap of $56.7 million.
In the best case, Schneider plays like he did two and three years ago (50-point seasons). In the worst case, he figures to be substantially more productive than Klee, who is only two years younger.
The Thrashers have plenty of players who can fill Brad Larsen’s role, which very well might have been in Chicago, and that means more ice time for someone younger who could help them down the road. Chad Painchaud did well in prospect games this fall but still isn’t likely to have the kind of up side that could make the Thrashers regret this deal.
OK, what follows is what I wrote earlier …
Boris Valabik told me today he doesn’t know why he drew the 10-minute misconduct penalty last night in Nashville. Maybe he’ll get an explanation tonight, when the same group of refs works the game in St. Louis.
“I was surprised, but I can’t do anything about it,” Valabik said. “I just got punched, and there was a scrum right after that, and I was the only guy who wound up with 10 minutes. That’s alright. It’s part of the game.
“I have no idea what the call was. I can’t do anything about it.”
Tonight’s lines:
Stuart-White-Thorburn
Sterling-Esposito-Armstrong
Boulton-Holzapfel-Machacek
LaVallee-Little-Hoffman
Stevenson might play in place of one of those guys; there’s some kind of potential issue with an injury.
On defense:
Hainsey-Lewis
Oystrick-Rivers
Valabik-Exelby
Hedberg to start in net, with Pavelec backing him up.
I was asked on the previous post my impressions of some of the players from last night. I had positive impressions of Grant Lewis, who struck me as willing and able to play the body aggressively but also showed some finesse. I thought the cross-check by Valabik that drew a penalty was gratuitous, but I spoke with John Anderson about it today and he sounded as if he saw it somewhat differently. Hainsey struck me as one of those guys who knows where to be and what to do and makes it look as if this game isn’t all that difficult.
I don’t have a whole lot of impressions beyond that, for a couple of reasons: It has been a long time since I have covered hockey, so I’m slower to trust my eyes and gut than I will be a month from now; and I was so busy trying to make sure I didn’t flop on my first game story that I probably wasn’t thinking all that straight.
About Matthieu Schneider: I was going to ask Don Waddell about that today at the skate, but he’s not here. He was in Nashville last night, and I’m told he’s in some other city scouting tonight. (The Ducks are playing in San Jose, and though Schneider has not been on the ice lately if there’s a multi-player deal in the works that’s one place Waddell could be, to look at other potential parts of a trade.)
I did ask Waddell about Schneider only a week ago, and he gave a two-part answer as to why the Thrashers didn’t claim Schneider off waivers: Too big a salary, and not a good fit. Of course, Waddell also told me about Alexei Zhitnik’s key role in the Thrashers’ future, then bought out Zhitnik’s contract.
That’s all until tonight.
.JPG)
-1.JPG)
Services »
Comments
By Jarndyce
September 26, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
I think you’re right about Hainsey, and as long as fans don’t expect him to be Pronger or Lidstrom, most people will be very happy with his play. Steady, and well positioned on defense. I think he’ll be a better, bigger Havelid, basically. That’s not a bad thing.
By GaVaHokie
September 26, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Mike… Waddell also said we had no interest in Recchi two days before claiming him off waivers. I talked to Recchi at the Casino Night last year and he said he knew Atlanta was going to take him a week before they put him on waivers.
It’s just a big game of poker! :)
Here’s hoping that Waddell is checking out Bobby Ryan… which is nice, because now that Holik is gone, I miss saying, “Come on Bobby!” with a Georgia redneck voice.
By GaVaHokie
September 26, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Upon further review, Bobby Ryan is not playing tonight for Anaheim.
However, Kyle McLaren might be playing tonight for San Jose.
By Sara
September 26, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Hmmm didn’t we play this game of “Where in the world is Don Waddell?” (think carmen sandiego theme here) just a few months back? Well, it seems awfully early to be scouting rivals given most won’t have come anywhere close to setting their rosters. So….wonder what else he could be scouting…. we keep coming up in rumors of still looking for another d-man (although the rational must ask WHY???) so I suppose he could be scouting a number of teams/players (psst Don, about RW…or C…and the cap floor…)
By Jarndyce
September 26, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
The Thrashers are in a decent position right now for the trade market. Plenty of cap room, plenty of needs. There are several teams that are cap restricted, and need to clear up some room, and there are only a few buyers out there.
I hope Waddell, whereever he is, comes home with a forward and a defenseman…
By GaVaHokie
September 26, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
And according to Ben Wright, Ken Klee is being held out of the preseason game tonight… awfully odd that he goes on a two game road trip and doesn’t play in either one.
By GaVaHokie
September 26, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
It’s getting interesting… now the Anaheim blog says that “Schneider is supposed to be traded today”
By GaVaHokie
September 26, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
After all this, watch it be Todd Marchant and Anaheim keeps Schneider and signs Selanne for cheap. :(
Marchant would fill that Recchi void on Kovy’s line… gritty around the net vet.
By GaVaHokie
September 26, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
Holy Cow.. that was quick!
Schneider traded to the Thrashers for Larsen, Klee and Painchaud.
Excellent!
By ranallo10 (in AT)
September 26, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
Why’d you have to go and say that Hokie??? Damn you if it happens.
By Michael Shapiro
September 26, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
I’m not troubled by packaging Larsen (he saw little time last year and it would be more of the same this year). Klee was fairly steady but hardly stellar. Never got a chance to see Painchaud play but had heard good things. Despite good numbers last year (39 points, plus 22), Schneider is THIRTY-FRIGGIN-NINE years old. Is this the future?
By Mike Knobler
September 26, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this
The Thrashers unload Klee and Larsen, might someday miss Painchaud but get a big, immediate boost on the blue line. It’s a fat contract, but the Thrashers had plenty of room for one.
By Billsen
September 26, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
Micheal-
He was +22 last year, played in 65 games and averaged over 22 minutes a game. And look who we gave up! This is a win/win. Goodbye to the “fleet-footed” Ken Klee!
Too bad we couldn’t get Bobby Ryan, too, but this is going to be great for our D. Can you imagine having him mentoring Zack? I’m pretty giddy at that thought!
By Smoothie
September 26, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
I’d rather have Schneidy at 39 than Klee at 37, but gee wiz $5.75 M is “fat” indeed! Too bad he was waived AFTER the deadline for buyouts. I reckon Don would have snatched him up in a heartbeat for 1/2 that. Then again, LA would’ve gotten him first.
Does this mean we really aren’t in a “rebuilding” year? Does this mean the ASG really is committed to winning at all costs? Does this mean we will now make a trade that sends a prospect and pick to Philly for another aged wonder Mike Knuble?? While we’re stocking up on thirty-somethings, why not get him too??
By Andy S
September 26, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
Smoothie: Don’t you think having a 1yr contract on a D-man like Schneider while having an ultra-promising rookie like Bogosian playing nearby is a good rebuilding effort? By getting rid of Klee and Larsen, the team will get younger. Painchaud wasn’t going to make the team, but Larsen was and his replacement will be young. Even if the trade was just Klee for Schneider, I’d hardly call it “stocking up” on thirty-somethings.
By Sara
September 26, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
HOLY COW!!!!! This trade worked out awesome!! Moving Klee was the perfect way to make this work. Now neither Valabik’s nor Bogosian’s ice time is in danger, they still have a veteran d-man to mentor them (and while Klee would have serviced, Schneid’s is WAY better), plus we moved out Larsen who while not awful takes up roster space that could go to another young player. And to top it all off, this should guarantee we will be above the cap floor.
Smoothie I think we can stop with this one. ;) It works because Schneids is one of the few NHL players who has performed well at a higher age and while the contract is a bit much, it’s only one year and we needed salary to eat anyway.
Well folks, you got your two d-men - happy now?
And I get another former Red Wing on the Thrashers - makes me happy. :)
By Smoothie
September 26, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
Andy — I was being sarcastic because some will complain that it’s simply par for the course as DWad is notorious for these type of signings / trades. I admitted that I’d rather have Schneider than Klee and can stomach his salary for one year. But as soon as he has a three game slump, everyone will b!tch about how we overpaid for him.
Also, don’t you recall that some folks on here were justifying lack of salary by saying it was because the ASG had come to the realization that a massive rebuilding effort was in order? I’ve been relatively happy with the moves DWad has made in the off-season…happier than last off-season.
I honestly hope they will continue to make trades to improve this roster for a playoff run. At least we’ve got Bogosian, Espo and some other good prospects waiting in the wings to quell the furor over giving up too much recently in the effort to win now. Don’t forget about Marty Reasoner being over 30, but you’re right, it’s not “stocking up” just yet. But I’m thinking there will be more to come.
Oh, and the record will show, I’ve been in the tank for Knuble all along. In fact, I was one of the first on here to suggest we make that deal. I don’t mind thirty-somethings (see Recchi) as long as they are the right ones.
By Nikita
September 26, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
Damn. Well, I’m happy about Schneider, but you guys know how I love Klee. I suppose I’ll have to love him in Anaheim now.
Schneider’s a great acquisition, despite his age, assuming we aren’t committed to him for an eternity.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
September 26, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this
Sara — You’re right, it seems to have worked out quite well on this one. Painchaud played a few games in the AHL, and the rest in the ECHL.
We might someday miss him, as Knobler said, but it wont be any day this year in my opinion.
One year of Schneider for a prospect and deadweight…very interesting that they didn’t want a pick to even it out. For once, Waddell capitalized on another GMs mistake. Yeah the contract is big, but they’ve got PLENTY of room for it.
By Thrashy Thrashy
September 26, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this
Screw the Red Wings.
Schneider’s a good addition, though. Not all veteran leadership on the blue line is created equal. Schneider is a substantially better player than Ken Klee. I’d like to see a winger like Knuble added, but I get the feeling that Waddell will probably settle for this steal, I mean, deal.
By Russian
September 26, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this
I am so HAPPY. I got thrid shot of Stolichnaja!!! He is GOOD. I am going to complain about D-men for this season. If Schneider (All Russian from Detroit and California called him Motya) will play all season it will be help to Kari and Moose, also he give some lesson to Bogus. Excelent move.
By Brendan
September 26, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
I don’t think this is going to go down as one of Brian Burke’s best trades, but his hand was a bit forced. We can argue that “better cap management” would have avoided the need for this trade, for Burke. But I’ll leave that for the Anaheim fans to contemplate.
I saw that the AJC wrote that “the need to dump Klee’s $1.25 million” figured into the equasion. Atlanta could have claimed Schneider without giving up anything and still been considerably under the cap. I doubt Klee’s salary was really a problem. Look at the cap numbers.
Klee and Larsen are going to a better team, so I bet they’re happy. Painchaud is a middle round prospect that I won’t cry over. Time will tell what becomes of him. But I never had him earmarked as a major star in the NHL.
At the end of last season, Waddell was asked “What went wrong” with the season. Waddell replied, paraphrased, “If our veterans had come through for us, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.” Today, Zhitnik, Klee, and Larsen are no longer Thrashers. Kozlov remains. As does Havelid. Hossa got traded, along with Dupuis.
This is a “new” team. It has the potential to be much younger. Schneider and Havelid could be moved at the trade deadline, as the team continues to look towards the future, with some nice draft picks or prospects coming from other team.
By Billsen
September 26, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this
And, think about this - if we do end up out of the running at the trade deadline, we will be able to move him for some sweet picks and prospects. Either way this is a great move by DW. I can’t wait to get to the Nasty Nest on the 10th. The Bulb is gonna be rocking!
By ranallo10 (in AT)
September 26, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
Brendan — A few responses to your post:
1 — As Hokie mentioned previously, it’s quite possible the need to move NHL assets like Klee and Larsen did have to do with why they traded for him and didn’t claim him off waivers. Keeping Klee and Larsen would’ve meant ownership shelled out $1.81M in addition to the contract Schneider was making ($5.75M salary, cap hit is less).
So, in effect it was a business decision, as the net loss by acquiring Schneider via trade is $3.94M, where as the loss would’ve been $7.56M by not shedding those two players salaries.
Salary wise (what the owners pay, and care most about), this trade made more sense. There’s no guarantee Klee or Larsen could’ve been moved to any team without taking salary back in return…so in essence this was easier to handle monetarily.
2 — Painchaud, though young, didn’t even crack the Hockey’sFuture top 20 prospects list for Atlanta (written in September). In fact, he didn’t even rank on their list at all (38 total prospects listed from the Atlanta organization).
Sure, we might miss him eventually (if he blossoms beyond expectations), but I don’t think many people will be knocking their heads in over this trade.
3 — The departed veterans list should rightfully include Holik and Recchi as well.
Removing Hossa from the equation, would you say this team is better or worse than the 2007/2008 version?
By LAC
September 26, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
Interesting, but a valuable vet who hasan offensive side.
Nothing lost with Klee/Larsen GOOD-BYE, prospect who has really not shown a whole lot.
OK, don REALLY LIED yet Again to the FANS ! Where is this FIRST LINE CENTER they promised ?
Let’s hope slater and white are next that is more dead weight we need to shed !
By Billsen
September 26, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
LAC - show me the 1st line center that we could have gotten without giving up a ton.
Brendan - Even with Hossa, I think we’re better this year. The Hossa who showed up last year was not the same guy we had the 1st two years.
I’m really stoked for the season now.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
September 26, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
Billsen — I’m sure you saw a lengthy post and figured it was Brendan immediately, but this time I was the culprit of verbosity. I think you were answering my question.
LAC — He’s delivered two-thirds of his “promise”, and there really weren’t any viable options as a true #1 center on the market. Cammalleri was really the only semi-realistic option acquired via trade, and we have no idea if Waddell tried to get in on that one. Umberger was moved too, but I don’t personally consider him anymore of an improvement over the centers on the roster currently. He’s a tad worse than Williams, who low-and-behold is a center/wing that is a top line talent (played top line in Chicago).
So I guess he’s at 2.5/3 of his promise, if you count WIlliams.
I know you don’t like him, but come on, allow yourself to be happy that Schneider is coming to Atlanta and Klee and Larsen are leaving.
By Mike Knobler
September 26, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
I added my thoughts at the top (the main blog).
It’s 2-1 Blues here, but this game has really taken on afterthought status today. (Thrashers goal by Brett Sterling, knocking in a rebound when goalie Manny Legace misplayed a Colby Armstrong offering.)
By Mike Knobler
September 26, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
OK, 5-3 Blues. I’ve been focusing mostly on improving my Schneider story, but from what I’ve seen:
Excellent game for Brett Sterling, who just knocked in his second goal of the night, this one on the power play.
Jamie Rivers is struggling a bit.
Johan Hedberg is not yet in regular-season form.
Ron Hainsey continues to impress. The guy knows where to be and what to do when he gets there.
By Toby
September 26, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
This trade is GREAT. It’s great for many reasons. Needed depth on the point, a mentor, an offensive defeseman (Anderson is sooooo happy), losing Klee, Larson, and whats-his-face, trade bait at the deadline (if needed…we may be playoff bound), and maybe gaining major intrest from former STH’s.
All this and his high salary is only around for one season. GREAT TRADE
By Mike Knobler
September 26, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
An ugly, ugly game for the Thrashers tonight. It’s now 9-4.
By Brendan
September 27, 2008 2:34 AM | Link to this
Ranallo, I can definitely see the “business aspect” of the bottom line figuring into this trade. You’re indeed correct. Moving Larsen and Klee does soften the blow of taking on Schneider’s rather hefty salary.
Holik and Recchi were oversights on my list of departed Thrashers. Duly noted. Though, I thought Recchi had a decent season for Atlanta. And well, on the 3rd line, Holik’s numbers weren’t atrocious. But he’s never been particulary expected to lead the team in scoring. Larsen and Klee were probably playing out a contract here in Atlanta. So, it’s not as if these guys were likely to get renewed at season’s end anyways. Might as well move them now, if they could be moved. Which is what Waddell did.
I’m interested in hearing Schneider’s reaction to the trade. Is he excited about being a Thrasher? Does he expect to be playing top tier minutes, with either Havelid or Enstrom? Is he “okay” with being on the 3rd pairing with Exelby or Valabik? How does he feel about mentoring young prospects, like Bogosian and Valabik? One wonders if this deal would have happened if Nikulin had been signed to a contract earlier in this offseason? (Ooooh, the blog is buzzing now, in contemplation.)
I’d say that I feel optimistic about this year’s roster over last year’s just because there’s a renewed sense of optimism. Gone is the dark cloud of uncertainty over Hossa’s contract. That speculation is over now. There is, finally, a “new” Head Coach in John Anderson. This Coach has an excellent rapport with his former players. It’s a “new day” in Thrasherville. I almost said “Blueland.”
And lastly, I feel verbosity has a certain “charm” about it. :)
By Brendan
September 27, 2008 2:59 AM | Link to this
Billsen, I like your optimism! That’s the spirit! Folks, I’ve liked what I’ve seen so far. It hasn’t been some terrible offseason. Waddell is doing the best he can with the set of circumstances he finds himself in.
Now, if the next story were that Belkin finally got bought out … and the whole ownership turmoil is a thing of the past, it’d make contract negotiations with Kovalchuk next July that much brighter.
Some people are apt to point out that acquiring Reasoner and Williams, on one-year deals, and Schneider, in his “contract year,” are merely “bandaids” with no longterm remedy. Fair enough.
Next offseason will present a new set of opportunities. Assuming Nic Havelid isn’t lost at the trade deadline, will he get renewed? Will Colby Armstrong and Erik Christensen get new multi-year contracts next Summer? Will the organization finally lock up high-end first round draft picks in Kari Lehtonen and Ilya Kovalchuk?, cementing them in Thrasher blue for the foreseeable future.
Until a few days ago, Don Waddell had never made a proactive contract to a pending free agent. Billsen, I am delighted that Don Waddell has reached this new plateau in his evolution as a GM in the NHL. It’s been a long climb. But he’s finally gotten there. If Waddell really wants to surprise us, he’ll make Kari Lehtonen a new deal just after New Year’s Day, to lock him up. He might do the same with Armstrong and Christensen. Who knows? Perhaps this is really the start of a new beginning?
By Toby
September 27, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this
Brendan According to a quote on the hockey futures boards, Atlanta was one of 6 or 7 teams he wants to play for because his brother lives here and he is excited to be working with Bogo and Enstrom.
AWESOME
By Toby
September 27, 2008 8:43 AM | Link to this
…oh..and one other thought. After this season… Schneider’s contract + Kozlov’s contract (both up) = Kovy’s new contract.
By Sara
September 27, 2008 8:43 AM | Link to this
Brendan re: Schneider’s possible thoughts - I doubt the Thrashers would have been among his top choices. However, he knew he was going to get moved and the teams most likely to need him and be able to fit him under the cap were all teams that finished in the bottom rungs of the standings last year - us, LA, STL. So he knew what was coming. He’s a professional, he’s going to say all the right things when interviewed, and he’s going to make the most of his time here. I imagine he will have no problem being a mentor for Zach - it’s a role all vets are asked to fulfill in one way or another. I expect he will be paired with Bogey and whether or not they qualify as the top pair will likely depend on how well Bogosian handles himself. If he pulls a Toby and comes out strong, I expect them to be the top pair, if he plays like a rookie, then second pair perhaps.
Gosh am I the only one drooling over our PP points???? Schneider, Hainsey, Enstrom, maybe Bogosian….that’s just awesome.
By wristshot
September 27, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this
From reading Anaheim’s team website it looks like Larsen will be a “place holder” for Selanne’s position until they get him signed. Burke is worried about his groin situation. When they get Selanne signed I think you’ll see Larsen either waived or sent down to their farm club in Iowa.
Both Burke and their fans are high on Klee as a serviceable 6th defenseman.
Thanks for you service boys and good luck out west!
By Nikita
September 27, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Larsen and Klee were probably playing out a contract here in Atlanta.
I doubt it. Klee, yes — he’ll do fine as someone’s 6th or 7th man, but I think we did Larsen a favor by sending him to a team that’s better regarded and might be able to give him better stats.
Will we re-sign Nic Havelid? If he plays characteristically, yes. He seems to want to stay here, and his play and durability even at his age are very good.
And Sara, you’re not alone.
By Alan
September 27, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Sara - You are most definitely not alone in regards to our PP. I think we just got exponentially better in that regard.
Can anyone tell me what Schneider was like on the PK?
By Nikita
September 27, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
He’s serviceable on the PK, but his strength is the PP.
I don’t feel too badly about the PK, actually. Ys, we ranked poorly, but the PK wasn’t bad when compared to even strength or the PP.
By Alan
September 27, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this
Ys, we ranked poorly, but the PK wasn’t bad when compared to even strength or the PP.
Indeed, we sucked on all levels last year. I’m just trying to figure out what our PK will be like, since I know our PP is going to be pretty strong.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
September 27, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
I’m just trying to figure out what our PK will be like, since I know our PP is going to be pretty strong.
My guess:
Slater, Reasoner, Armstrong, Perrin on offense. Possibly Stuart if he makes the cut. Depending on his line we could also see White. Slater and Reasoner would likely take the draws, since they’re the teams best faceoff men (with the exception of Christensen).
Defensively I would expect all defenders to contribute, but mainly Havelid, Exelby, Valabik, Hainsey. If he’s on the team, I would hope Bogosian gets some time here too. All have size and/or defensive awareness.
I’d sit Enstrom and Schneider during those periods, to give them rest. They’re most useful at even strength or on the PP. Hainsey and Bogosian are too, but both are more suited for both PK and PP roles, in my opinion.
By Brendan
September 27, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
Sara, I think Schneider knew something like this would eventually happen when Niedermayer returned to Anaheim. Hey, Schneider got a nice contract from Burke. If he just could have remained with Detroit last season, he’d have another Cup ring. (He got one with Montreal, in 1993.)
I’ve never liked that decision … to allow a player under contract to sit out, failing to report to camp, while he contemplates retirement. And Niedermayer’s fine for failing to appear at camp was refunded. Or something like that. Retroactively. I can’t remember the details anymore. I think a player should either retire or report. But GM Brian Burke wanted to be flexible with him. Or, at least, to bring him into the fold with a pro-rated salary.
By kracker
September 27, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this
Someone mentioned that Kozzy’s contract is up after this season and that Schneider + Kozlov = a contract amount for Kovy. Schneider does have one year remaining on his contract but Kozlov is signed thru the 09-10 season.