By Tony

September 3, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

Bring them all here, I’d rather watch the growing pains than the lazy veterans with no pride !

By Sara

September 3, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

I’m loving coach already - he’s gonna be good for some real dandies this year - the pressers should be fun!

So, Mike, my questions in no particular order:

1) Are you going to the tourney? 2) Any ideas who they are inviting to camp this year not in the system? 3) Where’s Bogosian’s contract? 4) Is Don planning on any contract extensions for our pending FAs?

ooohh hockey’s getting closer - you can almost smell it!!!!!

By Sara

September 3, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

ThrasherNY and I were having a discussion about GM tenures and so forth on Mike’s last blog. Since a new one was added, I’m posting the information here. Basically the question was has any GM had the same longevity with poor results. My take on it is how other teams have reacted to bad years. I found 15 examples to compare to. I’ll likely split them up 5 to a post, so it doesn’t time me out.

NYI ‘93’94-‘06’07 13 seasons, 5 PO appearances, all first round exits, only 3 consecutively. The other 8 seasons were all under .500. GM change in ‘96 from Maloney to Milbury. Team sold in 2000 to Charles Wang.

NYR ‘97’98-‘03’04 7 seasons, no PO appearances, all under .500. GM change in ‘00 from Smith to Sather. 5 coaches (one being Sather).

PHI ‘89’90-‘93’94 5 seasons, no PO, all under .500. 3 coaches, GM change in ‘90 from Clarke to Farwell. Clarke returned after ‘94.

PIT ‘79’80-‘87’88 9 seasons, 3 first round exits in first three years followed by 6 seasons of no PO appearances, 5 under .500. 5 coaches, GM change in ‘83 Bastian to Johnston and again in ‘88 to T. Esposito (who lasted one year before being replaced by Patrick).

DET ‘66’67-‘85’86 20 seasons, 4 PO appearances (3 first round exits, one 2nd round exit) 17 seasons under .500. 16 head coaches, 6 GMs. Team sold in 1982 to Mike Ilitch.

To be continued…

By Sara

September 3, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

Continuing on…

CHI ‘97’98-‘07’08 10 seasons, 1 PO appearance (1st round exit), 8 seasons under .500. 7 head coaches. GM change in ‘05 from Pulford to Tallon. Ownership change in ‘07’08 as owner Bill Wirtz dies and son Rocky takes over.

CLB ‘00’01-‘07’08 7 seasons, all under .500, no PO. 3 coaches, GM change in ‘07 from MacLean to Howson.

TB ‘92’93-‘01’02 10 seasons, one PO appearance (1st round exit), other 9 seasons under .500. 4 head coaches, GM change in ‘98 Esposito to Demers, ‘99 Demers to Dudley, ‘02 Dudley to Feaster. Franchise sold twice, in 1998 and 1999.

FLA ‘93’94-‘07’08 14 seasons, 3 PO appearances (2 first round exits, one SCF), 8 seasons under .500. 7 head coaches (#8 begins this seasons), GM change in ‘02 from Murray to Keenan and in ‘06 Keenan to Martin.

LA ‘93’94-‘99’00 7 seasons, two first round sweep exits and 5 seasons with no PO, all under .500. 3 head coaches, GM change ‘97 McMaster to Taylor. Team sold in 1994, new owners filed for bankruptcy in 1995 and sold the team again.

To be continued…again…

By Sara

September 3, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

And the final five…

PHX ‘96’97-‘07’08 11 seasons, 5 first round exits, 6 with no PO appearances, 4 under .500. 5 head coaches, GM change in ‘97 Paddock to Smith, then in ‘01 Smith to Fletcher to Barnett (yes all in one year), and again in ‘07 Barnett to Maloney. Team bought in 1996 and relocated from Winnipeg to Phoenix. Sold again in ‘01.

CAL ‘96’97-‘02’03 7 seasons, no PO, all under .500. 5 head coaches, GM change in ‘00 from Coates to Button and in ‘03 Button to Sutter.

EDM ‘92’93-‘95’96 4 seasons, no PO, all under .500. 4 head coaches, including one year by Sather, the only GM during this period.

VAN ‘95’96-‘01’02 7 seasons, 3 first round exits, 4 with no PO appearances, four seasons <.500. 5 head coaches, GM change in ‘98 Quinn to Burke.

WAS‘74’75-‘83’84 first 10 seasons of franchise. PO appearances in years 9 and 10 with a first then second round exit. under .500 9 of 10 seasons. 6 HC (with 2 interim appearances by a GM on top of that), GM change in ‘82, Schmidt to Poile.

Washington’s experience is probably the closest to the Thrashers - 8 seasons, 6 under .500, one PO appearance (1st round sweep), 2 head coaches with two interim appearances by the GM. 3rd HC begins this season. This is the point in their history where they made the GM change. I would suggest, had we the same owners for all eight seasons, the same change may have been made. Since Waddell got to hit the big reset button in 2003 however…

It’s interesting to see some of those histories and realize it hasn’t been nearly as screwed up here as it has been in other places. Poor results or not, at least we aren’t averaging a coach a year - that’s just a nightmare.

And in case you are wondering, Detroit is the only team to have a streak like that one. In fact, I have listed all the poor streaks in relatively contemporary NHL history. If a team isn’t on the list, it’s because it never went more than 3 seasons consecutively of missing the playoffs.

Anyway, review and ponder.

By RS

September 3, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

This site is supposed to have photos and video of the tournament after it begins:

http://fans.nhl.com/groups/The2008TraverseCityProspect_Tournament

By ranallo10 (in AT)

September 3, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

Sara — Quality stuff, as usual.

By Brendan

September 4, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

That was a fun read, Sara. It’s also fun to resurrect some of the names from the past. Hard to believe Toronto didn’t make this list. To hear Leafs fans kvetchhing, it’s been decades of sub-par performances. I do feel sympathy for the Leafs. They are an “Original Six” team, with a long and storied history, that hasn’t has a “sniff” at the Cup in over 40 years. Even Chicago has had three tries at it since “Expansion,” more commonly referred to now at the ‘67 Expansion. Mumbling … has it been three (3) tries for Chicago? Now, I’m not too sure. I’m pretty sure they went in 1971 and 1973. I know they made to a CF in 1995. Sometime thereabouts, the Blackhawks were in the Finals. I want to say 1992?

By Sara

September 4, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this

Brendan for all the kvetching as you called it, the Leafs have generally maintained a post-season presence - they just haven’t done anything impressive with it. To be included on my list a team had to either have at least four consecutive seasons missing the playoffs, or a stretch of seasons marked by play-off misses or relatively quick exits. As of right now, however, the Leafs have gone three seasons without a play-off berth and I would not expect that trend to change in the near future.

BTW, with regards to the Blackhawks, their only SCF appearance since 1967 occurred in 1992 (good memory) where they were swept by the Pens.

By GaVaHokie

September 4, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

You mean there are teams with longer droughts than the Thrashers have even existed? I don’t believe you.

By Toby

September 4, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Well…one thing’s for sure…the Thrash are well below anyone’s radar. There is an article up on the Hockey News website listing “3 young teams to watch for”. I guess the purpose of the article is to highlight who may surprise everyone. Not even a honorable mention for Atlanta (article listed LA, Edmonton, and Phoenix). One thing is for sure…I would LOVE to see the young guys come out and shut up the sports writers (though it’s a long shot). Can’t wait for the season to start!!!!!

By Stan Drulia

September 4, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Just read that Ray Ferraro signed a contract to be the hockey analyst this year for 30 games on TSN… nice going Ray! I thought he was great on ESPN and hopefully will catch some of his shows this year.

By Travis

September 4, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Toby, it’s not a matter of “shutting up” the sports writers. It’s the fact that we are using these kids now, only because Waddell failed to bring in Top Tier Talent - Again. Otherwise, these kids will be stuck in the minors for the next few years.

By GaVaHokie

September 4, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

What the heck is Marian Gaborik smoking to think he deserves more money than Ovechkin and Crosby?

Must be all those Gaborik jerseys the kids are wearing these days… it’s a real hot seller.

By Brendan

September 4, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Sara, I went to www.cbs.sportsline.com and clicked on teams … and it said Chicago had only one Conference Championship since 1967, in 1992. But when I went to the NHL.com site, it said the Blackhawks were Finalists in 1971 and 1973.. What gives? There weren’t Conferences back in ‘71 and ‘73?

By Brendan

September 4, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

At $7.5 million, I think that’s “about right” for Gaborik. Is he really a “Superstar” in the league? Stop. If I asked you, at 3AM, awakening you from a sound sleep, name the 5 best players in the league today, excluding goalies, do you “think” Marian Gaborik?

Hossa, coming off a 3rd place Playoff scoring performance in 2008, which included 12 goals and 14 assists for 26-points in 20 games played, is only making $7.4 million. Hossa took less than his market value to go play for Detroit. He’ll get another crack at pushing the what the market will bear next summer.

I understand that the market sets the value. But the “market value” could be altered by a different set of “accounting” by the NHL. Namely, to base the salary cap off ACTUAL revenues, rather than PROJECTED revenues. I suspect that would lower the figure. Well, with less money to play with, perhaps the “market place” would adjust accordingly. Then again, maybe not.

Maybe the results will really be than any team with a Tier I player will simply offer him the LEAGUE MAXIMUM, just because that’s the most they’re permitted to offer him to retain him. In that regard, one wonders what Kovalchuk could make, out on the open market, if the NHL didn’t cap his salary at 20% of whatever the 2009, 2010 or 2011 cap figure might be, depending on when Ilya actually signs that next contract.

I can’t blame players for asking for their “market value.” To ask them not to … is to ask them to be intentionally underpaid. The burden of managing a cap falls on the GM position. If a GM wants to have three (3) “max contract” players, that’s certainly a strategy. If a GM wants to have a team principally composed of mid-tier salaried players, that’s also a strategy. A GM also has to size up how ELSE $7.5 million might be spent.

I think being a good GM … means making good decisions. No matter what the size of your budget.

By ThrasherNY

September 4, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Sara Incredible post! You could have provided me only the last paragraph and I would have been smitten but that was indeed a fun read.

Washington’s experience is probably the closest to the Thrashers - 8 seasons, 6 under .500, one PO appearance (1st round sweep), 2 head coaches with two interim appearances by the GM. 3rd HC begins this season. This is the point in their history where they made the GM change. I would suggest, had we the same owners for all eight seasons, the same change may have been made. Since Waddell got to hit the big reset button in 2003 however…

I must say that I didnt think any franchise before us had even 5+ seasons with no playoff wins, and not GM change, let alone finding one with 8. I also agree completely with your “reset button” theory so I stand corrected in my assumption.

The spirit of my arguement still holds true but it has been proven that we are not the pioneers of this lack of accountability concept.

Gaborik Cant say anything more than that is just silly. Though I wont be surprised if Kovy tops the charts next offseason in annual burn rate.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

September 4, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Re: Gaborik — Not one time in that article does Gaborik say anything about thinking he’s worth max value. Risebrough has said he wont offer him the max of ~$11M, the writer of the article mentions the highest paid individual in the NHL, but there is no direct quote from Gaborik stating he feels he’s worth in the neighborhood of $11M.

All the article says is that they’ve offered him the most in franchise history (which is a short history, as the former Minnesota team is now in Dallas, thus shortening the “franchise” statement). I haven’t looked, but who was the previous record holder for highest contract in franchise history? Does it matter? Gaborik is by far the best player to come from the Wild organization, and is a top scoring threat in the NHL (goals per game is top 5 with people like Lecavalier, Kovalchuk, Heatley and Ovechkin).

He’s worth the $8M the market will give him, and if Risebrough hard balls him Gaborik will probably walk. But I think it’s unfair for anyone to assume Gaborik is asking to be paid the most in the NHL, as there is no evidence to show this beyond well placed quotes by a staff known to be overly dramatic this time of the hockey season (how many stories have the run about Sundin?).

So yeah, I don’t think Gaborik is doing anything wrong, nor trying to extort the Minnesota Wild.

By Sara

September 4, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

ThrasherNY FLA is also comparable as an expansion franchise - they went the first 9 seasons with the same GM, although they had more post-season appearances than the Thrash, including the trip to the SCF. And TB’s GM changes have coincided with the changes in ownership (Esposito was one of the original owners), so in theory they might have retained the same GM longer.

It should be noted if you haven’t caught it on your own, that all of those teams are coming out of the same division, also considered the “weakest” division.

By The Falconer

September 6, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Nice work Sara. I know that took some time to assemble and post.

re: Toronto. The team had a very poor stretch in the 1980s but in the old NHL, 16 of the 21 made the playoffs. There were a couple of teams that got into the postseason ONLY because another Norris Division team was even more horrible than the Leafs.

Now with 30 teams and 16 playoff appearances the bar is much higher to qualify for the post-season.