AJC > Sports > Thrashers > Blog > Archives > 2008 > July > 09 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USNikulin, free agents and camp
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The Thrashers remain hopeful of signing defenseman Ilya Nikulin, their second-round pick from 2000. The latest: His agent has to prove to the NHL that Nikulin’s 2008-09 contract with the Russian team Ak Bars of Kazan has an escape clause that allows him to play in the NHL. That contract, of course, is in Russian.
“The agent has to prove that his contract has an out. The agent is spending a lot of money, $1,000 to get it translated,” Thrashers general manager Don Waddell said Wednesday. “It’s got to go to the NHL office, and they have to be able to read it to approve it. That’s the process that’s going on right now.
“We’re encouraged. We would like to add this player. We’ve been in this spot before, though. I caution you. The player has changed his mind before. The hope would be that he would sign the deal and we would move on.”
Nikulin, 26, will have to take a pay cut of hundreds of thousands of dollars to play in Atlanta, which is limited by NHL rules in what it can offer him. Basically, all he can get is a two-way contract (NHL and minor league) for one year at entry-level salary. Nikulin is making $1.75 milion in Russia, said his U.S. agent, Scott Lites.
“We don’t have a choice,” Waddell said. “He’s taking a $600,000 or $700,000 pay cut to play in the NHL.”
If he does sign, and if the rules remain as they are, Nikulin would become an unrestricted free agent after one year. The NHL, however, is considering adjusting the rules and “stopping the clock” in recognition of the fact that players’ entry into the NHL has been slowed by the lack of a transfer agreement.
On to other topics:
—The Thrashers re-signed unrestricted free agent left wing Eric Boulton, filling a key need for a tough guy (or avoiding creating a key need, depending on how you look at it). The team also signed unrestricted free agent forwards Junior Lessard, Grant Stevenson and Mike Hoffman. Those three have limited are to add organizational depth. That doesn’t mean they might not all play in Atlanta by season’s end, but they’re not Plan A.
—Yes, there is a Plan A. Look for some kind of trade from a team that’s in salary cap trouble to a Thrashers team that can absorb some salary and needs some players. No, I don’t have specific trade rumors, although you guys seem to have no trouble producing those without my help. “A lot of teams are getting full [in terms of cap space],” Waddell said. “There’s a lot of players being shopped around the market. The way free agency started off, with a lot of money being spent, we all envisioned that at some point some teams were going to get themselves in a cap situation where they were going to have to move players.”
—Coach John Anderson and Waddell plan to interview some assistant coaching candidates this week. The timetable isn’t set in stone, but Waddell said the new staff could be hired within two to three weeks. Look for at least one of Anderson’s coaches to be someone with recent NHL experience, because that’s something Anderson doesn’t have. Waddell said he and Anderson are both conducting the search, that they agree on names, and that candidates are coming from both inside and outside the organization. “The process will be John will interview and then I will interview, and if we’re in agreement, which I fully suspect we will be — the names that have been brought forward are guys both of us are very high on — then we’ll negotiate a deal,” Waddell said.
—The Thrashers plan to re-sign restricted free agent goalie Kari Lehtonen, but the ball is in his court. “We had some talks before the draft with his agent,” Waddell said. “We made a qualified offer [meaning one whose terms meet or exceed the collective bargaining agreement requirements for the Thrashers to maintain the right to match any other team’s offer sheet or get draft pick compensation if Lehtonen signs elsewhere]. He’s got until the 15th of July to pick that [Thrashers offer] up or turn that down. We’ll see what happens. Negotiations if he doesn’t pick it up will be ongoing.”
—Third-round draft pick Danick Paquette sat out the second day of prospect camp with an illness and said he is heading home. His Lewiston major junior teammate, defenseman Patrick Cusack, also sat out, with a groin injury, but he said he plans to be on the ice Thursday. Cusack is one of 10 players in camp whose rights do not belong to the Thrashers. The other 22 either were drafted by the Thrashers or, in Angelo Esposito’s case, obtained in a trade.
—Defenseman Zach Bogosian, the No. 3 pick, looked good again on Day 2. He scored the first goal in a four-on-four scrimmage.
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Comments
By Andrew
July 9, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this
first?
I really hope we can get Nikulin, and Waddell better start making trades. No excuse to spend less money the year after a terrible one.
By Marty
July 9, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this
I don’t know if I am happy or sad to hear about this potential trade. I am obviously happy because someone is coming. I am a little scared because it sounds like we might be getting someone who another team just wants to dump. But looking at the other centers that were available in free agency, I think we might get someone decent compared to what we were hoping for.
By polskidawg
July 9, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this
Filppula, Bouchard or Vermette (in that order) would be a great start.
By Marty
July 9, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
My far-fetched fantasy scenario right now is that Detroit, who is going to arbitration with Flippula (SARAH will explain this I’m sure, but each side comes in with a number and a mediator figures which is better and both parties must agree to it). Anyway, Detroit will go in a little low. If they win, they keep him, if they lose, they are forced to sign him at the higher amount they can’t afford, but then just trade him away. I’m just dreaming on a Wed but who else is out there.
By ThirdRate
July 9, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
Nikulin will never play for the Thrashers. Boulton is a third rate player at best. Next move will be to trade away too much again for overpriced overaged players that the uninformed Atlanta public will buy into.
I want desperately to support hockey in this town but can not give my allegience to an organization that is not committed to winning.
I feel sorry for Kovy and John Anderson.
By B. Thenet
July 9, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
Are you telling me the NHL can’t even hire their own lawyer who speaks and reads Russian to read a contract?
That to me is the funniest part of this whole Nikulin saga.
Just get me a fur hat and a fur coat. I will go to the NHL offices and do my best Yakov Smirnov impersonation “See the out clause is right here silly American…What a Country!”
For me Nikulin would be the best offseason aquisition DW makes, he along with Bogosian would give us one of the best defenses in the SE at the very least.
By Marty
July 9, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
POLISKIDAWG: Thanks for mentioning the other two. I think they both went to arbitration as well so my earlier fantasy theory still works. On a side note, please stop posting the same garbage under different sign on names like THIRDRATE. We get it, you hate Waddell and the ASG. Don’t post it under new names if it’s the same garbage.
By a$g
July 9, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
We will continue to get ahl players and charge you nhl prices to watch them play.
Now go buy your tickets you foolish sheople!
By thrashers27
July 9, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
Yeah, you’d think Kovy, or Kozzie might come in handy in translating a Russian contract…
By Sage of Bluesland
July 9, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Flippula Bouchard and Vermette are all 4th line players at best but then again that is all Donny Fraudell will be able to get us as long as he is GM.
By Michael Shapiro
July 9, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
Can’t believe our “big splash” is re-signing Boulton. Well, I guess he got a $75k raise, so it’s big to HIM.
How are we going to replace the scoring provided by folks like Hoss and Recchi? At the price we bought Boulton for (don’t get me wrong, I like him but our needs are far greater than his abilities), we could almost have had Recchi back (yes, he’s 40, but if you look at the stats, after Hoss bolted, Recchi was our #2 scorer last year).
Oh, I get it. We’ll just give up scoring and hope the other teams do too.
This is really pathetic.
Gawd D-Wad, please DON’T give up Kovy in some stoo-pud trade.
By NASCAR Tim
July 9, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
Any truth to the rumor DON FRAUDell has resigned to take a position with the Atlanta DREAM?
I hear he is perfectly qualified to run that franchise.
He’s probably GOT A great five-year plan for them.
Somebody HELP me!!
I can’t stop bolding words !!!!!!
My SHIFT key keeps getting STUCK!
By Bob
July 9, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the update on assistants, Knobler. That’s smart to get Anderson some help from recent NHLers to key him in on the players and schemes on opposing clubs.
If we don’t have a transfer agreement with Russia, then why does it matter if there is an escape clause or not? Is the NHL worried the Russians would sue them?
By Jason
July 9, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
Would someone explain the two way one year deal Nukilin contract stuff? Why can Enstrom be signed for more than one year and at a different dollar amount? Does it only have to do with Russian players?
By John Creek
July 9, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
Question for all:
What would you rather have?
A chronically inept NHL franchise that has no hope of winning; or
No NHL franchise at all
Its a Hobson’s Choice but it is also reality we must face here.
By Marty
July 9, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this
That’s a good point, why are we even worried about what Russia thinks? Or are they worried about giving them a reason not to ever get a transfer agreement with us. As for Boulton, you can’t compare him to Recchi because they serve two different purposes. If someone knees Kovy, you wouldn’t send Recchi out there to take a guy out, so don’t hire him to do a job that we have Boulton for. Thanks B THENET for that Yakov Smirnoff line.
By John 49
July 9, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
The Thrashers really have no choice but to trade Kovy and Kari to try and pick up a larger base of talent. It may not be this year but it will be soon and the problem is Don Waddell is going to be allowed to make the deal. Also some other things to look foward to is Don trading away the number one for next year over a nothing player to save his job for one more season. Soon Don will trade away Little and Boris for some 33 year olds with bad hips. It the thrasher are in such bad shape for scoring why let Haydar, and Krog go? Thornburn can play tough guy but Bolton can not score to save his life. So why keep adding players that can not score, the thrasher will need to score by commity to win games so why not pick up goal scores instead of more tough guys that no one is afraid of.
By 12345
July 9, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Mr.Creek, at this point is there any difference ?
I am all for moving the team and starting over, New Owner and NEW GM !
By MB
July 9, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
Thanks for nothing, Thenet, now I have the unholy trinity of bad comedians in my head…Yakov Smirnoff, Margaret Cho, and Rita Rudner (shudder).
Shapiro, I don’t know where we’re going to get scoring. I expect Little to double his numbers…heck, if Savard could do it at that age, Little should be able to, right?
We should get some more contributions from Christenson, and the D should provide more scoring than last year. But those contributions aren’t likely to replace what we’ve lost. And it’s anybody’s guess as to whether Kozzy returns to form or if he sleepwalks like last year.
John 49, it’ll be interesting to see what we do with the Kari/Pavs situation in the next year or so. If both continue to develop and prove themselves, then they should be marketable around the league, and we’ll have a decision on our hands.
By TNT
July 9, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
I’m far from rich, but for Dip Wadd to say “The agent is spending a lot of money, $1,000 to get it translated,” that’s got to be the funniest thing I’ve read all week. $1,000 would be a hit for me, since I make about $65,000 a year. But for Wadd, or a pro sports agent, to think $1,000 is “a lot of money”, that’s funny right there.
By hockeyfan
July 9, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
Mike Do you believe that this was Don’s plan all along to wait until teams need to dump salary? I dont.
And is it Nikulin’s Russian agent or American agent saying that he’s coming? Usually the American one says he is coming and the Russian says nothing or the opposite.
Count me skeptical
By holikow
July 9, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
hockeyfan,
Thanks for recognizing that Don is looking for a way to spin not signing anyone significant as of yet. His comment “we all envisioned that at some point some teams were going to get themselves in a cap situation” also seems suspect given thta most other teams have made moves so far.
By David
July 9, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this
While I generally find that http://www.hockeybuzz.com is mostly just humorous, i have to say i agree with Eklund on this statement whole heartedly…
*”Last year many comparisons between Boyle and Brian Campbell were made. While I don’t dispute that Boyle was wrongly pushed into a corner by Tampa who threatened to waive him if he didn’t waive his NTC (does anyone believe that bluff for a second, btw, I mean look what they got for Boyle) I want to draw this comparison in the two players.
Brian Campbell: Personally calls Atlanta to thank them for the offer after accepting his offer to Chicago.
Dan Boyle: Compares being waived and picked up by Atlanta to pretty much a nightmare…”*
By polskidawg
July 9, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this
Marty - On a side note, please stop posting the same garbage under different sign on names like THIRDRATE. We get it, you hate Waddell and the ASG. Don’t post it under new names if it’s the same garbage.
I’m not sure if you were meaning me with that comment, but rest assured that I’ve never posted under a false name. It true that my patience with Mr. Waddell has expired, and I want nothing more than for him to the replaced - 10+ years is enough.
However, I do not agree with questioning his motives or desire, nor do I agree with using terms like “idiot,” “stupid,” or “dumba$$” to describe him or the owners.
I prefer “incompetent.”
By Mike Knobler
July 9, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this
hockeyfan I spoke with his U.S. agent, and your point is well taken. I’m new to this, but I get the feeling Waddell’s don’t-count-your-Russian-defenseman-until-he’s-signed approach might be a wise approach. The Thrashers have every motivation to make it happen if they can, but they might have very little power to make it happen.
By Sara
July 10, 2008 6:33 AM | Link to this
re: Nikulin the NHL no longer has a transfer agreement with any European country. Until a new on is ratified, there is basically a hand-shake agreement between the NHL and everyone else that teams cannot sign players under contract in another league unless an out-clause exists. That is basically meant to protect everyone since this new Russian League is threatening to come swipe some of the NHL’s top players (or at least to try). Since Russia has a habit of making big stinks when the NHL doesn’t play fair, I would think Ak Bars would have already been protesting if Nikulin didn’t have an out-clause. But who knows - maybe a Thrashers prospect would totally fly under the radar.
I’ll tell you what part bothers me - it’s that in one year he could be a UFA. Now who doesn’t see what direction that is heading for? Wait 8 years, finally get him over here for one and then he bolts for UFA? Bettman better put a freeze on “the clock.”
Jason btw I believe the difference between Enstrom and Nikulin is their ages. The one-year entry-level contract applies to Europeans ages 25-27.
By Alan
July 10, 2008 6:36 AM | Link to this
David - I wouldn’t call that a comparison, I would call that a sharp contrast. Basically, Campbell is a classy guy, and Boyle is a douchebag. quite the difference, I think.
By Alan
July 10, 2008 6:51 AM | Link to this
Since Russia has a habit of making big stinks when the NHL doesn’t play fair, I would think Ak Bars would have already been protesting if Nikulin didn’t have an out-clause.
You know, I read a story yesterday about Russia making a big stink about another player we all know of…
By NASCAR Hip Czech
July 10, 2008 7:52 AM | Link to this
Flippula Bouchard and Vermette are all 4th line players at best
That may be true today (though it isn’t, Bouchard is a top 2 line center with Minnesota now, Filppula could be a top 2 center this year, Vermette is a 3rd line right now), but the point is they are players with great upside that might be had relatively cheaply.
This may come as a shock, but we are NOT going to win the Stanley Cup this year. Sure, I would love to see a bona fide top line center here this year. But it’s not going to happen, we cannot trade for that type of player without totally stripping the cupboard bare.
It’s pointless to make moves thinking we are going to go far in the playoffs this year (or even make the playoffs). There are not enough band-aids to make that happen.
I’d rather see us get the Filppulas, Bouchards, and Vermettes.
By five_hole
July 10, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this
I totally agree with NASCAR Hip Czech. Don’t give up high draft picks, top prospects and our young talent just to fill out our roster. I’m not sure we could get one of the players you mentioned without giving up someone like that. I’m willing to write this year off and see what we could get as “castaways” from the teams over the cap limit. We could probably give up someone more marginal (Perrin, White, Exelby) to fill out our top-6 guys, and wait for next year.
By Bob
July 10, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this
We could probably give up someone more marginal (Perrin, White, Exelby) to fill out our top-6 guys, and wait for next year
Wait for what next year? You think free agents are going to change their mind after we tank yet another year and want to sign here next summer?
I see two plausible scenarios for Waddell now to manage his way of the corner he’s backed himself into:
He waits and takes the castoffs that the Cap saddled teams need to move, this will be done either by waiver wire or a trade or trades where he doesn’t have to give up much, this lineup finishes last in the league, moving Kovy one step closer out of here.
He trades Kovy for a motherload of good roster players and the re-build gets a huge shot in the arm, club could even be competitive this year.
For those that think “that will kill ticket sales for the Thrashers if they move Kovy”, then think about this for a second. Can ticket sales get worse than they currently are with Kovy?
No free agents want to come to Atlantaberia and that won’t change after another stinkfest this year, and especially after the next year when Kovy demands out. The bold move is to trade him now and kick start this thing in a new direction.
By Alan
July 10, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
Wait for what next year? You think free agents are going to change their mind after we tank yet another year and want to sign here next summer?
Probably to see how our young guys develop. At least, that makes sense to me.
By RS
July 10, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
All big sports agents that do business in Russia have Russian “associates” that work for them inside Russia. I’m sure that Nikulin’s Russian agent works for Scott Lites.
By Mark
July 10, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
I have a couple of trade ideas that could help the Thrashers. Here they are:
Move #1 Trade RFA Lehtonen to LA for RFA Patrick O’Sullivan. Atlanta gets a young, true #1 Center to play with Kovy. Someone that will be with the organization for a numbers of years and hopefully can survive through this down time. LA is very weak in goal with LaBarbara currently in the #1 slot and their top D prospect is still a few years away from being NHL Ready. We can move Pavelec up and have him compete for the #1 spot with the Moose. It makes sense on multiple levels.
This trade, while filling a need, does not help up get to the Salary Floor. So, I would overpay for Chris Gratton as the 3rd/4th line center / Holik replacement at $6M total for 3 years. He would give the team some size and grit and is good in the defensive zone.
If my calculations are correct, we would still be a few million short of the floor but these moves would at least be a move in the right direction.
By NASCAR Dave
July 10, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
Hey MIKE KNOBLER…
I have a serious question for you. I would like you to ask DONNIE to tell you in his own words WHY we have not signed anybody (minus BOULTON/HAINSEY)…
Ask him if this was his plan all along, or if players just flat out don’t want to come here…
Remember, it’s your job to ask the TOUGH questions…
And a few words of advice for you… DONNIE appears to be lying to you. What’s funny is, this is a new phenomenon. I don’t really recall DONNIE lying so much in the past; It seems to have just started this offseason… So be CAREFUL about what DONNIE tells you, because he seems to have gotten into a New habit of lying to you to get the pressure off his back…
But PLEASE ask him that question… THANK YOU!
By Marty
July 10, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
POLISKIDAWG: Sorry but that was meant for other people who you can tell are posting the same garbage under different names. I will try to use paragraphs more.
SARA: I am worried about that too where Nikulin can leave after one year. But I would hope that if he shows good signs early Waddell will try to snatch him up before others get that opportunity. I don’t think Nikulin will be focused on only playing in Detroit the way Hossa was.
By Hip Czech
July 10, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
You think free agents are going to change their mind after we tank yet another year and want to sign here next summer?
That’s why we don’t pursue FAs, but rather target younger RFAs via trade who need to be moved because of cap issues or other reasons.
Filppula, Bouchard, Vermette, and I too like the O’Sullivan idea (and have been pushing that one for some time.
Y’all bash Waddell because he hasn’t signed any more FAs and then turn around and (rightly) point out it’s next to impossible to get FAs to come here.
There is no quick fix…I too bash the continual ‘5 year’ plan, but at this point all we can do is try to build with some young talent. Until that matures we’re not going to get tier I FAs in here. We unfortunately have to wait to get competitive again and if/when we get back there then we get trade deadline players (a la Tkachuk) or then maybe FAs start wanting to come here to fill a piece here or there. The only other alternative is to move Kovalchuk and I don’t think we want to do that (at least not now).
Gratton signed with somebody yesterday.
By Jpuck
July 10, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
Mike K.
There has been much discussion on players not wanting to play in Atl. How about an article on overall facilities quality around the league.
One of the things that Mark Cuban did when he took over was making everything beyond first class for the Dallas and the visiting team players. He even got repremanded by the NBA for robe giveaways to visiting players.
That hell hole of a practice rink speaks volumes about the organization - they may not own it, but they are the major customer and no one wants to work in a place that reeks of low class. I don’t know about the players facilities, but go into the public men’s room, look at the general lack of cleanliness and order around the rink.
Quality = quantity and we need to improve the little things before we can improve the big things (players and wins).
And my cheap shot of the day our PR department sucks.
By Kansas City, Kansas City Here We Come!
July 10, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
Nice try Mark, but the Kings have a No. 1 waiting in the wings in goal (Jonathan Bernier) but they screwed him over last year and sent him back to juniors after he got bombarded by Boston.
The Kings remain the only team in the league with a worse forseeable future than the Thrashers. Lombardi and Hextall are a collective joke and former Thrashers director of player personnel Jack Ferreira is a special assistant to the GM, which is the kiss of death.
And, if any of you think Filpulla wouldn’t be a No. 1 center in Atlanta, think again. If any of you think Bouchard wouldn’t be a No. 1 center in Atlanta, think again. Vermette is similar in style to Christensen, which means he’s not a good option right now.
But if you think White, Perrin, Little, Christensen, Slater and Esposito at this point would be better options than Bouchard or Filpulla at No. 1 with Kovy, think again.
By ben
July 10, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
I for 1, would get rid of Lehts for O’Sulivan.
By Mark
July 10, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
Kansas City, I am aware of Bernier but he has not even turned 20 years old yet and how often do 20 year old goalies fair well in the NHL. Almost never. Just look at Fluery for the Pens who had to go back down to the AHL after the Pens rushed his development. Goalies, just like Defenseman, take a while to develop. They can run with Lethonen for a while and then when Bernier is ready in a few years they have a tradable asset in Lehtonen. I think the Kings would be stupid to bank on a kid turning 20 in August for next season unless they really want to go after Tavares.
By Midfield
July 10, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
“For those that think “that will kill ticket sales for the Thrashers if they move Kovy”, then think about this for a second. Can ticket sales get worse than they currently are with Kovy?”
Let me think about this for a second, Bob. Hmmm. Yes, they can. Much, much worse.
By Mark
July 10, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
Hip Check, that was Josh Gratton, different player. Chris Gratton is still available and would be a good fit for 3rd or 4th line center.
By Mark
July 10, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
Hip Check, that was Josh Gratton, different player. Chris Gratton is still available and would be a good fit for 3rd or 4th line center.
By Bob
July 10, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
Let me think about this for a second, Bob. Hmmm. Yes, they can. Much, much worse
Let me put it this way. Ticket sales stink, and we have Kovy. This current lineup is going to stink this year, think 2nd or 3rd year Expansion Thrashers bad.
If we move Kovy for a good return and this team is competitive, you really think ticket sales are going to be worse than if we keep Kovy and finish last in the league?
By Alan
July 10, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
Kovalchuk is a marquee player. He is what draws people to Philips to watch a Thrashers game. He is the face of this organization. When people think “Atlanta Thrashers,” one of the first things they think of is Ilya Kovalchuk.
And you think moving Kovalchuk for “a good return” is going to increase sales?
Marketing must not be a strong point around here.
By Sara
July 10, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
Bob if we are already struggling to find players to recoup the scoring we lost from Hossa, Recchi, and Holik (a point you brought up the other day and it’s a valid argument - there are no guarantees that any kids we might bring up can duplicate that scoring), then doesn’t trading Kovy make that worse?? Even if we move in assets that replace Hossa/Recchi/Holik (and that’s a big if), we’ve still lost a truly dynamic player who can put people in the seats all by himself not to mention all his production which tends to have people jumping right back out of those seats.
Players of Kovy’s ilk are rare - not every team can boast having such a player. To send him away at this juncture is ill-advised.
By B. Thenet
July 10, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Put a winning product on the ice, and you can cut your marketing budget in half.
Kovy is awesome, but if this team had back to back playoff appearances after trading him….do you think we would have to worry about STH revolts or half price tickets?
By Todd
July 10, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
Mike, can you ask Wadell why he thinks he deserves to keep his job when so many of the fans feel he should be replaced?
By David
July 10, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
Fans are fans. They don’t know anything, honestly. We see and know what we WANT to see and know. We see a losing team and want to point a finger.
DW may be in a tough position in Atlanta right now, but honestly…he’s regarded VERY well around the league and would not be out of a job long, at all. In the position that atlanta is in, would you really rather have one of the other options? Look at the GM’s around the league and how they operate. Burke…He’s a big mover, but other than one good offseason, what does he have to show for it?
SUCCESS - it is not judged in 1 cup win. The lightning are not a successful franchise. The hurricanes, are not a successful franchise. Success is measured over time. If you want to compare us to other teams. Compare us to other teams that have good organizations and have been successful REPEATEDLY. Detroit, New Jersey, Colorado, Dallas.Teams that almost always make the playoffs year after year.
So don’t compare us to teams that had their moment in the sun. I don’t want that. I want to win the cup…again and again. The way these other teams are doing it, is not the way.
Look at tampa. If their season is a bust this year, how much money will they have wasted?
By Toby
July 10, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
If “Plan A” right now is some big trades, it better happen soon. Season ticket holders are leaving by the day and need a big reason to renew. Pretty soon, the only one who will be at the games will be that little bald guy who chugs the Guinness to “Welcome to the Jungle”.
By Russ
July 10, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
David - Let me take a crack at comparing the Thrashers to Detroit, New Jersey, Colorado, and Dallas over the last several seasons. They’re good, we’re horrible…that was easy.
By Mark
July 10, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
David, and the way the Thrashers are doing things is the way to win a Cup. Trading Coburn so you can get swept out of the first round is a way to get a Cup? Missing out on 1st round draft picks (Alex Bourret) is a way to get a Cup? Letting your own Free Agents leave so you can save a few bucks (Savard, Brunette, Staios) is a way to win a Cup? The Thrashers are no where near a Cup contender and will not be any time soon with the current leadership. Waddell has been here since day one and he is primarily responsible for the position this team is in. Waddell is well liked around the league but there is a difference between being well liked and being a good, respected GM. I don’t think anyone would put Waddell in the later category.
By Bob
July 10, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
if we are already struggling to find players to recoup the scoring we lost from Hossa, Recchi, and Holik (a point you brought up the other day and it’s a valid argument - there are no guarantees that any kids we might bring up can duplicate that scoring), then doesn’t trading Kovy make that worse??
Context, Sara, think in context (kind of like the wrong path you went down with the owners by believing bad figures on what they spent each year). The context of my statement is that the return we get, is a good return. Let’s look at the rumor we heard about the Sedin twins and an offensive dman in return for Kovy. The Sedins put up 150 pts between them last year, and the dman was around a 40 pt guy. So, in that context, you lose Kovy who put up, what, 80 pts last year, and bring in 190 pts. Make sense?
Marketing must not be a strong point around here
It’s actually what I do for a living but that aside, the context of this town is that it supports a winner. Mabye common sense isn’t a strong point amongst some around here, eh? Not being serious with ya Alan, but when you live in a glass houses, Alan, you might want to be careful what you throw around.
As theNet points out, this town supports a winner. You move Kovy and turn the team into a winner, voila, full house every night.
The Braves played to 3000 a night for years with Dale Murphy, where’d that get ‘em?
By Alan
July 10, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
Put a winning product on the ice, and you can cut your marketing budget in half.
What marketing budget? :p Seriously, where do you see or hear this team marketed, besides on maybe half a dozen MARTA buses, a couple random billboards nowhere near Philips, on AM640 and on SportSouth?
Atlanta is not Washington. They changed horsemen mid-apocalypse there, and managed to sell a bunch more tickets because of a good on-ice product once a new system was introduced. Atlanta is also not Toronto, where they could sell out the arena every night but never win a single game. Atlanta has a big name that draws people to see him. Even die-hard fans from teams like the Islanders, Avalanche, Kings, and even the Red Wings are “Kovalchuk” fans, and love to see him score even if it means ruining a shutout attempt by goalies like Osgood and Brodeur. You’re not going to have consistent sellouts in Philips if you get rid of Kovalchuk and replace him with the Sedins, Crosby, Ovechkin, or whomever else.
This talk of trading Kovalchuk is a marketing and PR nightmare.
Mabye common sense isn’t a strong point amongst some around here, eh? Not being serious with ya Alan, but when you live in a glass houses, Alan, you might want to be careful what you throw around.
Fortunately, my home is made of brick. And I have a lot more common sense than most seem to. :P
It would take years before this team draws some serious fans. It won’t be an instant turnaround like what was seen in Washington this past year (due to different circumstances altogether, but I digress). The Braves didn’t become instantly successful by dumping Dale Murphy on the Phillies.
By Marty
July 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Mike, ask DW how he would grade this year’s Free Agent signings. And you should let him know what the fans graded it also, so you can compare.
By Sara
July 10, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Bob last time I checked, the Sedin twins + dman for Kovy was still nothing more than conjecture. So why would a GM give up 3 players’ 190 pts for one guy’s 80 pts? That’s a dumb trade IMO. It can’t be for salary reasons because Kovy is expensive as crap and Gillis, in this case, would still have to replace a Sedin and a dman in the line-up. And if he goes with cheap players to keep costs down, there’s no way he can recoup the extra 110 pts he just gave up in that deal. Considering a darn good GM just got fired from the team after taking his team to the POs in two outta three years, that kind of back-step doesn’t seem like it would be tolerated in that market or by those owners.
Which kind of comes back to my original point, which is I don’t think you can get a trade that provides for better value than what you get for Kovy while also making up for the loss of other scoring. Sure we could get a couple middling roster players, maybe a couple of prospects, draft pick or two. But none of that will make up for Kovy in the next season, possibly even a few seasons down the road. And in the meantime, you’ve kicked this team’s best player ever and the face of the franchise and one of the most dynamic players in the game to the curb.
I get your “context” Bob, I just don’t think your “context” falls into the realm of reality.
By Tony C.
July 10, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
“The way free agency started off, with a lot of money being spent, we all envisioned that at some point some teams were going to get themselves in a cap situation where they were going to have to move players.”
In other words, this was the plan all along…sign either Campbell(plan A) or Hainsey(plan B), then scavenger up some top-6 forward(s).
BOO!
He should’ve at least taken Morrison & Huselius’ pulse.
By Bob
July 10, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
The Braves didn’t become instantly successful by dumping Dale Murphy on the Phillies
You, of course, completely miss the point. The Braves got better, BTW, when they got a good GM, John Schuerholtz, who turned things around here.
The point of my Dale Murphy/Braves analogy is that the Braves had a superstar they trotted out there and marketed. Dale was a star in Atlanta. Yet, they lost and only drew 3,000 a night. They started selling out when they started winning, by drafting sell, making key free agent signings, and key trades. All orchestrated by the new GM who turned things around.
Sure we could get a couple middling roster players, maybe a couple of prospects, draft pick or two
Nonsense, Kovy would bring much more in return than that.
At least you understand the context now.
By Sara
July 10, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Problem is - I don’t think any team has spent themselves so far above the cap that to get back into compliance they will have to trade a top-line forward….which is kind of what we’re supposed to be looking for right? Plus if it’s all about cap compliance, you don’t shove off your cheap RFAs either. That’s your bang for the buck - and if it isn’t bang for the buck, it’s not really going to help us anyway.
Either way - that strategy would be fine if we were under the cap floor and in need of 2nd or 3rd line talent. But since we aren’t in that position - that strategy sucks.
By Denny
July 10, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
GEEEZ - And I thought the Hainsey signing was a good deal. Even my favorite Hockey Analyist The Falconer canme around and called it a “solid signing”. But now I read Adam Proteau of The Hockey News rate it the worst of the 5 woorst UFA signings.
In Football we call Piling Om
By Sara
July 10, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
Nonsense, Kovy would bring much more in return than that.
I wouldn’t bank on that. And certainly not in any kind of return that would make us competitive in this year or next as you suggested.
Let me explain this for some who seem to be missing the “context” - what this team is lacking is top line skill. We don’t need more 3rd and 4th liners - we have plenty of those that are quite serviceable and get the job done well. Ultimately the second line might need some tweaking, but even that could depend on the development of some of our younger players (Little is 2nd line C material and in theory Spencer M is supposed to be 2nd line RW material - which may only be a couple years down the road and precludes us signing lengthy contracts with other “second line talent” - but I’m digressing).
Our two single biggest lacks right now are a true top-line center and a top-line winger (who might play by default on said second line a la Hossa to split up the scoring but you get my point - we’re still talking blue-chipper here).
Trading Kovy does NOT get us a top-line player (who’s going to give us their best center or winger for Kovy - that’s a sideways move for another club unless it’s the Thrasher definition of “best” in which case that doesn’t help us much does it?). Ultimately it only COSTS us a top-line player, which is completely counter-productive to moving this franchise in the right direction (unless you’re Bruce Levenson of course). Not to mention the loss of goodwill you generate among an already irate fan base.
By LAC
July 10, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Right NASCAR DAVE… I want Koebler to ask this: You say you love this team, so for the sake of the entire franchise, when will you resign ?
Also don Do you know how many cannot stand the job he has done and that he is a complete failure…
But Mike won’t do that for the FANS, just like asg, screw the fans, and DON’T ask the tough questions !
By Alan
July 10, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
All orchestrated by the new GM who turned things around.
Then why do you want to get rid of Kovalchuk? Surely someone in marketing can see what a SNAFU that would be.
Both of us agree that we need a new GM. But we don’t need to give away our marquee player for a bunch of stuff. And that’s exactly what we would get in return. To even think we would get a phenomenal player the likes of the one you so desperately want to ship out is crazy. Remember, the new GM of the Braves in the 1990-1991 postseason made some pretty nice free agency signings and really turned the Braves into a world series contender. It wasn’t just getting rid of Dale Murphy. Dumping him off probably had little to do with anything.
By Tony C.
July 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
I would think Glen Murray is a target (his team is dying for cap space), and one who might actually put up some decent numbers before he gets hurt. Because he will. When’s the last time he played 76+ games in a season?
Also when’s the last time Mike Knuble played 76+ games in a season?
I would think that Murray, Knuble, and Afinogenov would be the “best hope” targets for guys who’ll be UFA after this season, maybe Gionta figures into that list. The UFA class of 2010 looks to have Hejduk (who I would like to see DW go after), and Pisani from edmonton as the “top picks”…now there are RFA guys for both summer 2K9 and 2K10 that are very attractive, but again, can we afford to trade our quality prospects for other youngsters??
By Marty
July 10, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
I see someone else is also named Marty and posted above so I hope I don’t have to be known as “The original Marty” or that we don’t become like all the Bobs around here. Anyway, I disagree with the other Marty because I think it is stupid that we all have our panties in a bunch over free agency signings and are grading it right now. To grade it now is like grading an entire draft right after the last 1st round selection was made. There’s no point. I know people around here have either limited patience after years of suffering or are just intent on complaing, but don’t grade free agency until our roster is complete. That’s actually a stupid question for the poll. How did Chicago do in the 1st 24 hours of free agency? Probably an F. But yet they get an A right now. My hope is that “Plan A” is a reality that will come true and a trade for one of the 3 RFAs POLSKIDAWG mentioned happens. If it doesn’t, THEN I will give a C- to D+. Hainsey is not an F. If it does happen, we can be in the B to B+ area maybe. The other phrase I want to throw out there is “addition by subtraction”. Didn’t we gain anything by getting rid of Zhitnik, Holik, Rucchin? I laugh that the other blog mentions the downward trend of the Thrashers because of “Waddell’s public flip-flop of Zhitnik’s role with the team”. MY GOD, I WAS DOING CARTWHEELS WHEN HE CUT ZHITNIK! Yet people look at that as a negative. Amazes me. Are people in this city so upset with Waddell that when he does something good like cut Zhitnik we have to find a reason why it’s a bad thing. Next poll, who among us is upset that Zhitnik is gone? Put me down for “NO”.
By Toby
July 10, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Then why do you want to get rid of Kovalchuk? Surely someone in marketing can see what a SNAFU that would be.
I’m not so sure trading Kovy would be a marketing bomb. He’s been here and there hasn’t been any proof that he is the reason people show up.
The way to fill the seats is with a winning record and getting into the playoffs. Season ticket sales were up last year because of that (really short) playoff series, and it got people talking about the team. Look at what a playoff run (though still an awful record) got the Hawks. People are now talking about them and season ticket holders are now renewing.
It’s all about a winning record…just ask Winnipeg, Quebec, and Hartford.
By Tony C.
July 10, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
David-
Show me one positive quote regarding DW other than “He’s a nice guy” or “Very friendly” or “Square shooter”-type comments.
Seriously, the nicest thing I’ve seen quoted in regards to DW is “Well you have to applaud the way he handled the Heatley situation”…the ‘Heatley Situation’ was four years ago.
Find me a quote or column from any established NHL writer that has a positive view of DW and the job he’s done in the past 2 years.
By The Joker
July 10, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Big Splash = Tossing Waddell into the Chattahoochee River.
What do Don Waddell and the Chattahoochee River have in common?
They are both full of $h!t.
By Marty
July 10, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
TOBY: Actually, season ticket sales were up last year because in order to get All-Star tickets, you had to be a STH. I heard that is why we have a drop now. All the people who only bought last year just for the All-Star game tickets didn’t renew, not because of Kovy or anything, but because the ASG can’t dangle the All-Star Game carrot in front of people anymore.
By The Joker
July 10, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
Put the bong down David!
By Alan
July 10, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
I’m not so sure trading Kovy would be a marketing bomb.
He’s the only face you see on SportSouth or what few billboard there are in town. He is, literally, the face of the franchise.
It’s all about a winning record…just ask Winnipeg, Quebec, and Hartford.
No, in this case, it’s about making the playoffs. You almost need a winning record to do that these days, but oftentimes you didn’t in the past. Just ask Winnipeg, Quebec, and Hartford. Don’t believe me? Just look…
Winnipeg missed the playoffs six times between 1979-1980 and 1995-1996, and moved due to financial troubles.
Quebec missed the playoffs seven times between 1979-1980 and 1994-1995, and moved due to financial troubles.
Hartford missed the playoffs ten times between 1979-1980 and 1996-1997, and moved due to market size and a lackluster arena.
Does any of that sound like Atlanta? Not at all. Atlanta has failed to make the playoffs for all of its existence except for one year: 2006-2007.
Sort of silly to keep posting these things about teams that moved due to financial trouble (The Canadian dollar was craptacular back then) or a tiny market size and lack of a modern arena (Hartford was unwilling to provide one).
Knowing a little bit of history helps. Here’s your history lesson. :)
By A$G
July 10, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
We’re not spending $ this year because we have to sign Josh Smith and Josh Childress. That is more important than the AHL team.
By Sage of Bluesland
July 10, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
“David” (Waddell) thinks that a single Cup win doesn’t measure success…he wants to win multiple Cups…
Nice thought—but your buddy (or boss) hasn’t even gotten us into the playoffs multiple times after nearly a decade of trying to build. Couldn’t even build properly.
I’ll take a couple years in the playoffs and a Cup win to your Donny’s “Five-Year Plan”…
It’s truly unbelievable what some people try to shovel others around here.
By Marty
July 10, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
ALAN: just making the playoffs back then didn’t mean as much. In the old Adams Division you had 5 teams and 4 would make the playoffs. So as long as Quebec or Hartford could be each other out or Boston, Buffalo or Montreal they got in. We complain that half the league makes the playoffs today but back then it was 4 teams out of 5 (or 6 in the Patrick).
By Alan
July 10, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
just making the playoffs back then didn’t mean as much.
It’s still a fallacy to compare them to the sort of situation we’re in here. Honing in on the playoffs aspect is meaningless given the reasons why those teams moved in the first place. The two Canadian teams moved because the Canadian economy stunk it up real bad back then. The US team moved because the city they played in didn’t want to build a modern playing facility. Those are the reasons why.
By Smoothie
July 10, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
Also when’s the last time Mike Knuble played 76+ games in a season?
Uhh, how about last year?? He played a full season per NHL.com and netted 29 goals & 55 points. Here’s a run-down of his last 6 NHL seasons:
Season GP Goals Points
07-08 82 29 55
06-07 64 24 54
05-06 82 34 65
03-04 82 21 46
02-03 75 30 59
01-02 54 8 14
So he’s not injured as often as some of you make him out to be. Considering how he plays and the nature of being a power forward, I’m not surprised he’s missed 50+ games in six seasons. But that’s only an avg of 8-10 games per season. I’d gladly take 70 GP and 25 goals / 50 pts…call me silly, but I don’t see it as high-risk as some of our esteemed bloggers do.
By Tony C.
July 10, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this
Smoothie -
My bad. Maybe it’s just that he’s out whenever we’ve played them lately. I do remember 06-07 he was out.
Also, I may have him mixed up with another Phlyer… but yeah if he looks to be healthy, and without anything that looks to be a potentially recurring health issue (looks at KL) then hell yah let’s get him and a “perpetual scratch” from PHI. If they’ll give him up for something reasonable… one would think/hope DW’s still sore from the deal Zhitnik.
By Marty
July 10, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this
ALAN: I’ll agree whole heartedly on that explanation. For our own interest, the final nail in the coffin for the financially struggling Winnipeg Jets was the resigning of a big free agent whose big contract put the team salary too far over the limit. That big star back then was a young Keith Tkachuk.
By Tony C.
July 10, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
Also, Mike-do you feel Paquette left because he’s not interested in being a Thrasher??
By Tony C.
July 10, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
Mike-
Nice work on the Espo article.
I’m encouraged by his comment, but DW’s “plan” for him to play in the minors for another year kind of sounds like Coburn languishing in the minors deja-vu to me:
Article outlines a plan for Espsito to play for Junior deMontreal(new team btw) for this coming season then…(from Mike’s article):
*”From there,” Waddell said, “his play will dictate where he goes.”
Esposito said his goal is to make the team this season.
“I just have to be who I am,” Esposito said. “I know who I am, and I know what I bring to the team, and that’s all that I’m worried about, and I’m not worried about what others are saying.”*
By Tony C.
July 10, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
that should’ve read:
“not encouraged…”
By Tony C.
July 10, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
anyway the point being that I don’t want to see this kid playing in the AHL in two seasons.
By ламинат
August 13, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
yez Een plaatje zegt alles, toch ? mrd Het volledige rapport is hier te vinden. Lees natuurlijk d de blogposting. g g Thanks for interesting post! gbz ламинированный парке 7m