Thrashers

By TAKERJW

December 4, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

FIRST!!!!!

By Rawhide

December 4, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

Well then….just #@$#@!. Guess I won’t be getting my official Blogger Creds for Christmas!

I blame SANTA!

By Thrasher Ryan

December 4, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

Hi Craig. Thanks for getting my comment to Coach Waddell last Friday. He took my advice and changed lines a bit, but it still needs some tweaking. Tell him to try:

Kovalchuk-White-Haydar
Kozlov-Little-Hossa
Boulton-Holik-Thorburn Perrin-Slater-Dupuis

Exelby-Klee Havelid-Enstrom McCarthy-Popovic

Alternative lines include scratching Slater and moving Perrin to Center, adding Larsen at Left Wing on Line 4.

Slater and Zhitnik could use the view from the press box to reflect on their game and think about how they can snap out of their shnides.

Thanks Craig.

By GaVaHokie

December 4, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

Congrats to Tobias Enstrom for being named rookie of the month

By Adam

December 4, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

Hey, Craig.

We’ve been running our site, ThePensblog.com, for a little over a year now.

We have more readers than most hockey blogs. We definitely don’t talk about the Penguins in the traditional sense. We’ll call out a player when he’s doing bad. We love harping on Sidney Crosby when he makes a mistake. We don’t do advertising anywhere on the site, because some of the things we say and do are questionable.

We run the blog for the sole purpose of entertaining, and we repeatedly remind people who come to our blog that we definitely aren’t the place to go for in-depth analysis and breaking news on the Pens and/or the NHL.

The HNIC special on blogging mentioned that Pittsburgh is one of the cities looking closely at the blogging medium.

It will be a catch-22 if the Penguins would grant us media passes, because they will be doing it to reach out to Pens fans on the internet, while at the same time trying to possibly regulate what we talk about and how we talk about it. Most Pens fans that frequent the internet are already aware of our existence, so it wouldn’t make sense for the Penguins to grant us passes.

We like the underground status that we have right now, and we wouldn’t necessarily want the distinction of being recognized as a Pens beat writer.

People would resent that fact that we would get to go to every game, and it would distance us from certain readers, which is the last thing we want.

Great article.

Thanks, Adam

By TalkingThrash

December 4, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

As one of the Thrasher bloggers, I would love to argue for the amount of access that the Capitals have allowed. But I can’t. That is up to the team, and the organization.

But I will argue for some amount of increased access. The reason the Capitals allow so much to the bloggers is because of the lack of mainstream media coverage.

Craig, you do an amazing job covering the Thrashers. But the only coverage that fans get comes from Ben Wright, Darren Elliot, and you.

The Caps allow the bloggers to cover the team so much to help fill the void in the lack of coverage.

For a team like Toronto, who already has way too much coverage, they do not need bloggers. But for teams like the Caps and Thrashers, a real need for the bloggers is there.

Don’t go to the end of the spectrum like the Capitals do; rather, allow periodic credentials to bloggers on a case-by-case basis.

By d

December 4, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

I guess it is not only the traditional news sources (such as the AJC), but also professional and college athletics that must come to grips with how the Internet has permanently changed the way news is delivered and used. I would think it is in the best interest of the NHL to give access to Bloggers with the appropriate credentials - this Gennie cannot be put back in the bottle.

I would suspect that hockey fans are a bit more Internet savvy than for most other sports.

BTW, if Andy thinks he should not be making those types of passes at this point in his career, what is his opinion of his large contract at this point in his career?

By Craig Custance

December 4, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

Adam — Thanks for weighing in. You make an interesting point. Do bloggers even WANT credentials? If you’re an edgy blog, would you lose some of your edginess if you had to consistently face the guy you’re ripping?

TalkinThrash — That’s why I’m mildly surprised the Thrashers haven’t been more like the Caps. Like you said, there might be a benefit to opening the doors to bloggers. But, remember, the benefit to the organization has to be worth the risk. Say what you want about declining newspaper circulation (actually, please don’t) but ajc.com just passed the 1 billion mark for page views this year. That’s a tangible number, and the Thrashers get a return on their granting of access to me and Schultz and Carroll and Hummer and everyone else.

d - I agree that hockey fans are more Internet savvy and I think the NHL does a good job embracing things like YouTube and other digital delivery systems.

By tackkjr

December 4, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

I certainly understand the organization’s dilemma. My blog is talkinaboutpractice.blogspot.com and it focuses only on covering the team practices. I started the blog because of a suggestion from a fellow Thrasher fan who knows I attend most of the practices. While my blog does not have a way to track how many times it is viewed, I suspect it gets alot of hits because of the number of comments I receive about it. More coverage of the team, and in my case…the practices, can only help the team and organization because I give the fans insights into the goings on at practices when their own schedules do not allow them the opportunity to attend themselves. If I was given more access to the players during the practices it would certainly enhance the coverage I offer to the people who read the blog. And, by the way, my cell phone does not have a camera….

By Hockeyfan

December 4, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

Anybody remember the debacle that was the Thrasher blogger for most of last season on that rumor guy’s site? That is my argument against blogger access.

I have seen the Thrashers personnel answer questions from various bloggers (the good bloggers) which I would bet a lot of teams dont do.

I can possibly see a couple of bloggers nights in a season, as long as it is limited to good bloggers and debacles not invited, but I do not believe that it is a good idea for complete access every night to anybody that claims to have a blog.

By Chris

December 4, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

I don’t think ‘accountability’ can be an excuse for not granting blogger’s access. Accountability in the blogosphere is horizontal, as opposed to the vertical chain of command in the traditional media. Good blogs get links from other good blogs and the bad stuff gets ignored. I agree Craig, the way to do it is a case by case basis. I think the Thrashers have done an okay job by giving some publicity to some blogs and having events like last years’ blog night. I wouldn’t expect them to give carte blanche access to every blogger, but clearly there are benefits to the team in recognizing the good blogs.

They can and should do more.

For a variety of reasons, I chose not to continue my Thrashers’ Chart House blog this year.

By ranallo10

December 4, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

Great, I foresee Eklund vs. Kukla: PART II!

My opinion:
Maybe I’m a bit more old-school since I went through college to become trained in journalism, and at least tried to become an accredited journalist in my younger years, but — I don’t understand the complaint of bloggers. Blogging is a hobby, it’s a way to pass time, it’s an internet based water-cooler discussion between strangers…and nothing more. Blogging is not reporting, no matter how much you feel you follow rules or journalistic etiquette that “govern” your blog. It’s an open source, where anybody can opine about what they see, think, or “know”.

A blogger being granted access to interviews with athletes is like allowing an internet fan site access to the Grammy’s…it makes no sense because nobody is accountable for what they say, do, or write. Any person can create a website, register with Blogger, or type an opinion about something they feel passionately about.

I think you’re right Craig, it boils down to accountability. Without proper press credentials given to accredited journalists who are actually backed by a news dissemination organization, there is no reason in my opinion to open the access to “fan bloggers” just because their words are widely read.

It’s a ridiculous debate sparked by the people who feel they are entitled to access of a team they follow as fans. Buy a ticket to the game, you’ll have as much access as you are deserving.

By Tony C.

December 4, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

Or howabout a set number of credentials available per month? Let the players, media staff and coaching staff to read the blogs and vote on who receives the credentials that month; if a particular person gets nominated 3 times, then they should get a pass for the rest of the season.

My opinion. Not that anybody asked.

CC- do we see the individual lines practicing together a la Hoss & Slava last year?? if so, who? Also, do Enstrom & Little feel they can keep pace with their ATOI as projected over the rest of the season? What seems to be the mood in the room about the youngsters getting so much time?

GO BLUE !!!

By ranallo10

December 4, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this

Losing a link of your site on a “reputable” blog site is a lot less punishment than losing your job and journalistic reputation.

Anybody can apply for ads for their website (with enough hits), and anybody can place links to other sites on their website. The “vertical” accountability is non-existant…that’s why Eklund still has a website. A blanket “what I write has a 5% chance of coming to fruition” does not justify anything. Even if you stole it from a GM that said it to/towards you.

Hits, NOT etiquette, mean everything on the internet.

By Craig Custance

December 4, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

Tony C — Nobody has issues with their ice time, that’s for sure. Especially Enstrom, he’s earned every bit of playing time. I don’t see any reason why they can’t continue playing this much. They’re young.

By Brendan

December 4, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this

I’m a bit ‘conflicted’ on the subject. On one hand, there are very good, and very serious bloggers, who check their facts, and remain ‘objective’ about things.

But, if someone is that serious about reporting, why not go to journalism school and get official recognition for it? Once a real member of the media, you’ll be granted all the access you need.

For me, a hockey blog should be a place where fans come together to share their thoughts on hockey-related topics. But there’s no real accountability for what’s being posted. With that in mind, I suspect the Thrashers are correct to be hesitant to open Pandora’s box.

Fans are fans. They are accountable to no one but themselves. And sometimes not even then! But a credentialed member of the media has to answer to someone over content and context of what’s being reported.

The line between truth and fiction gets blurred enough as it is. I think a person who runs a serious blog will attract serious readers. Does a blogger need “lockerroom” access to do his/her blog? I wouldn’t think so. But there’s no doubt it would make that serious blog even better.

By Hooky Bob

December 4, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this

Me thinks….Andy Sutton could be a healthy scratch tomorrow evening. Which is worse (but better for blueland)..that or getting bested time and again (maybe even in a fight) “Oh!!!… don’t do that bring-him on.”

By Sara

December 4, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this

One advantage I think to allowing fan bloggers some access to teams/players is that the fan perspective is different and fans sometimes ask different types of questions than a journalist would. We are pretty fortunate here because sometimes Craig will follow up on things we have been discussing here with the team (ie getting Holik’s opinion about shooting more on the PP). I think the organization could do more to open up some access to bloggers in controlled ways and through pre-screening, but an overall free-for-all would not be recommendable. Maybe one or two practices a month - bloggers could ask in advance maybe what organization member or player they would like to talk to, etc. That would be feasible, giving the organization more exposure and better connection to fans, without too much jeopardy if they are pre-screening the bloggers ahead of time.

Btw, Craig and Rawhide the way I interpreted what Craig said in his blog, Rawhide could in fact get credentials because he is affiliated with the AJC - meaning if he did something inappropriate, his blog could be censored and a retraction given. Of course, that would give Rawhide more journalistic credo there, which just seems to defeat the purpose of our little fan group. I mean, serious journalists can’t call a team logo a turd can they and where’s the fun in that?? :)

By Craig Custance

December 4, 2007 6:31 PM | Link to this

Brendan — Wow, you managed to stay completely on the fence on that one. Maybe those who blog but don’t get into journalism actually want to make money.

By kracker

December 4, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this

Concerning the need of hockey or other bloggers being ‘granted’ credentials equal to, or similar to, the MSM journalists, it seems clear that a licensing group or clearinghouse must, of necessity, evolve. There will surely be a host competing agencies similar to the current ones that are primarily associated today with the news biz in print/TV/radio - AP/UPI/Reuters, et al. Perhaps some of these new groups will evolve from those existing agencies. Oh, there will be traditional academic degrees attainable for the formal blogger, it they are not already available this day in the classroom.

By ToF

December 4, 2007 8:12 PM | Link to this

Ranallo Eklund is stuck with his website for more than just the fact that he is a blogger. His hard-on for anonymity and the simple fact that 9/10 of what he writes is BS is why he is stuck with a website.

I like the idea of bloggers getting access to players, but as Brian Pothier pointed out, bloggers don’t always understand what is and isn’t uncouth.

Also, the Pens blog is awesome.

By GSU-Lee

December 4, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

Craig and others, while we are on the subject, I managed to gain full access to Thrasher home games through the great Thrasher PR guys. I am a senior college journalism student at Georgia State University and write regularly about the Thrashers. How do you feel about that? For what it’s worth,it’s probably the best learning experience I have had as a writer.

By Brian

December 4, 2007 9:07 PM | Link to this

Craig - are you referring to anyone who posts or just someone like Rawhide or Falconer?

By Adam

December 4, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

We can honestly, truthfully say that we would accept press passes solely for the opportunity to go to Penguins games.

With Crosby in town, the Penguins already have a waiting list for prospective season-ticket holders. The games this season are basically sold out. And when the new arena comes around, it’s gonna be real tough for the average fan to grab some tickets.

We’re that average fan. If we can parlay the blog we run into some free tickets, we would jump at the chance, but we honestly wouldn’t take advantage of the opportunity to go talk to players.

It’s an 8-year-old’s fantasy to go talk to a player. It’s a 27-year-old journalist’s job to go talk to a player.

We’re 24-year-olds who run a blog when we aren’t at our day job. We would have no reason to go talk to the players, except to ask them questions that wouldn’t be considered professional, which would result in us losing our passes.

By ssiscribe

December 4, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

Top of the evening, folks. I’ll weigh in on the topic of the day, not because I have much to offer other than my opinion (and I was out of town last week, so I haven’t seen the Thrashers play in a bit).

I spent a long time working for newspapers throughout the state, mostly daily newspapers, and mostly doing sports. It was an awesome time in my life, and I was blessed to get to make a living doing things most people would gladly do for free.

I boot-strapped my way up through the business, in an era when the Internet was just taking off and blogging was nothing like it is today. Sometimes, I hear a report or read something that’s attributed to the Internet and it really ticks me off, because I know there’s no checks and balances and there is no layer of editing and fact-checking.

Craig hit the nail on the head with the accountability issue. Believe me, I wrote plenty of stories that resulted in angry phone calls to my bosses and editors. I fielded plenty about writers who worked for me. I had folks challenge me in every way imaginable.

If you pay your dues and end up working for a newspaper, even a weekly paper in a small town, there comes an assumption of professionalism with it. People expect a certain standard from a newspaper. They expect — for all the joking you hear about “making @#$% up” — that what you write is true, or suppose to be.

I don’t think that assumption is there with blogging. I think it comes from the rampant cases of some bloggers getting on the Net and spewing whatever comes to mind. And it’s a shame that some people paint all bloggers with that brush.

I, too, read some of the Thrashers blogs out there, and as a former sports writer, I’m duly impressed and entertained. I’ve learned a ton about hockey just from reading Southeast Shootout, etc.

And that’s what makes the Thrashers question interesting. See, would the Braves or Bulldogs ever consider letting fan bloggers have access? Of course not. But hockey, a sport that in Atlanta draws precious little sports coverage from the media? The more, the merrier?

Perhaps. Perhaps not. I would like to see the Thrashers loosen up the ropes just a little bit and let some of the folks like the Falconer, etc., the folks who are damn good at what they do and who invest a ton of time into it, get access on a quasi-regular basis. As a former scribe, I certainly could respect that and would love to see their perspective from the press box and locker room.

And GSU-Lee, I know the feeling, bro. A decade and a half ago, I got hooked on hockey by covering Knights’ games for my school newspaper down there around Decatur Street. It’s the absolute best experience you can get, so get all you can and it’ll pay off in the future.

Sorry to go on so long. Enjoy the blog as always. Here’s to two home victories tomorrow night, at Philips and at the Sports Arena a few blocks away.

—30—

By GSU-Lee

December 4, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

Siscribe, glad there are some Panther faithful on this blog! Go Panthers! We got the Jackets tomorrow night at 9 pm! When did you cover the KNights?

By The Falconer

December 4, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

That’s Craig for the vote of confidence. I asked last year for press access after Blogger Night and was turned down. I have no reason to think anything has changed. I wrote a full post today and list some of the things I would do if given press access.

re: accountability. Personally I think this is a bit of red herring for established bloggers. If I were given press access I’m not going to want to throw that away.

The Thrashers could establish some criteria (must blog for 6 months, one post a week during the season). The could write down a professional code of conduct and have bloggers sign it (no posts about personal lives, no autograph requests, no picture requests, profession attire, etc.). The team can establish the conditions for getting access and keeping it.

There are ways to encourage and develop accountability among bloggers. For example, you don’t just hand over the car keys to a 16 year old everyone takes a class and goes starts out with a learners permit. Bloggers could be educated in how they can do damage to a person’s reputation and even be sued for libel if they behave in an irresponsible manner.

The Thrashers could set some ground rules. They could even create a sort of “learner’s press pass” where you can sit in the box and attend post-game news conference but not ask questions of coaches and players until your probationary period is over.

Team’s that just wring their hands about “accountability” are not thinking very out of the box.

By Hanson Brothers

December 4, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

From the standpoint of a former sports journalist in Athens 20 years ago and now an attorney, I have to side with the Thrashers on both accounts. The sports journalism gig was the best job I ever had…going to sports arenas and stadiums all around the country, watching great sports, and getting paid…oh yeah and usually free food too for the press. If only I could have made a decent living I would still be doing that.

Now as an attorney I can see some serious liability issues by providing credentials to any blogger that applied. Anyone and I mean anyone can start a blog. There is no requirement that the person be sane or know right from wrong. It would be pretty hard to do a complete background check on the bloggers prior to issuing credentials. But in the event a blogger attacked a player or fan, or some other type of incident took place, the Thrashers would be on the hook legally, and could wind up with some potentially serious damages. Not that all journalists are sane, but there is a system of accountability and chain of command in place that provides some measure of security for a team to provide credentials.

My suggestion for the bloggers who want credentials. Start a publication that is circulated in your area. Today’s technology is so good it is easy to print and publish from a computer with decent quality. Once you can establish a credible publication with a decent circulation, apply for credentials. Disclaimer: That is not legal advice. Go Thrashers!

By GSU-Lee

December 4, 2007 11:23 PM | Link to this

Falconer, I am not saying i think this, but I do believe there is still a question of legitimacy for bloggers. I believe that some bloggers do have a passion and interest in offering something beyond a farfetched opinion. But at the sametime, do bloggers need access to the players? I thought blogs were supposed to be a place where fans could come and offer their opinions while people like Craig offer an objective connection to the players, etc. But hey, that’s just what I think

By The Falconer

December 5, 2007 12:38 AM | Link to this

re: Hanson Brothers. Crazy people can blog and crazy people could print something out in their garage. It is unclear to me how a crazy guy printing something out in his garage protects the Thrashers from liability, but then again I’m not a lawyer.

I already have a hard time finding time to blog and now you want me to start a print publication at home?

There is a day coming when even a “newspaper” will only be issued in a digital fashion. My position is we need to begin giving some serious thought to constructing standards for the coming digital press.

If you’re really worried about liability you could require some sort of bonding perhaps. I’m a published author in my day job and my work has appeared in top professional journals. I think I have a strong track record. If you look at the Caps bloggers they are lawyers, US military, and other serious day jobs. Again, I think that any NHL team that wants to help bloggers can find solutions to most of the objections that have been raised. Where there is a will, there’s a way.

re: GSU-Lee: Not all bloggers want or need access to players. Some bloggers revel in being non-journalists, I’m not one of those people. I write about the team but my stats stuff will only appeal to a modest niche.

Obviously I don’t “need” it but I do think my product would be better. And my blogging generally helps to sell Thrashers hockey, so isn’t in the Thrashers interest to help me help them? Is that not the same reason why professional sports teams invented media access in the first place? Because newspaper coverage helped generate interest in their team or sport?

By gmlane

December 5, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this

Just to further the debate, here are a few questions:

What guidelines would you suggest for the Thrashers to determine who to give credentials to, and how often?

And using your guidelines, what current Thrashers bloggers would you give the credentials?

By gmlane

December 5, 2007 12:43 AM | Link to this

Craig, your said your opinion differs somewhat from that of the Thrashers.

How would you answer the question I just posted?

By Stan Hauseman

December 5, 2007 2:08 AM | Link to this

I think NHL teams worst case scenario for credentialing bloggers is the guys who show up in hockey jerseys and seem to be there more to be seen then anything else. I agree with Falconer I don’t think I would want access all the time, but if I was doing a piece on the latest promotion of Chris Thorburn, it would be nice to get quotes from guys. Unfortunately, I don’t think all bloggers could separate being fans from their credentials. I am still trying to get out of the hole the previous blogger at hockeybuzz put me in. She is probably as big a reason as any why Thrashers won’t credential bloggers.

By DWTOO

December 5, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

One thought about bloggers covering teams from the lockeroon. Would you want to see Pucks n’ Snot loose in any lockeroom?

By Brian

December 5, 2007 9:13 AM | Link to this

Sorry guys, but I say no way. Just look at some of the irrational posts here. And you want those people near your team?

By Matt H

December 5, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

Great debate guys… No time to add anything more than kudos…

By Buzilla Baby Blues

December 5, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

I think I would get my @ss kicked if I got creditials to speak with the players.

By ssiscribe

December 5, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

GSU-Lee: Mid-90s. Good times. John Paris, Stan Drulia, Chris LiPuma and the Turner Cup. Good times indeed.

I’ve long said where you are at now is an awesome training ground. I covered four professional sports teams (not such much for game story stuff, but for the experience of being in there and to write features, any way I could spin it or angle it in regards to being close to our school, etc.), and (at the time I was there) 14 Division I sports. Launched me into a pretty good career, and set me up for what I’m doing now, which is even better (since I have a family and I’m older now; still freelance here and there).

So, those trips to Panthersville and those nights at Philips are the precursor to something good … if you put in the work and pay your dues. And it sounds like you are. Best of luck to you, and to the alma mater tonight at what we used to call The Den on Decatur.

—30—

By Alan

December 5, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

If I were blogging about sports, and I somehow managed to get press credentials, I’d only write about the games. Press conferences? I might sit in on one, but I wouldn’t want to ask any questions. Chances are real good that a real reporter would ask what I was thinking, anyway. Interaction with players? Not needed. I’m not a real reporter, why would I need to talk to the players? If they, for some reason, wanted to talk to me … that’s a whole different story.

By stendec

December 5, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

Hi Craig. Merry Christmas! Sure hope Thrashers win later tonight. Goalie rotation? Why not? Will keep both netminders focused. Competition brings out best in champions. If either goalie starts allowing early or late goals then sit ‘em. Those are killers! One cost us point against Devils. Decisive soft goals must not be tolerated! Like I said, Thrasher offense capable of four (or more) goals per outing. Usually more than enough to win. Scorers let Moose down in New Jersey! KL was sharp in return. Hope he STAYS that way. Oh well, best to all fellow Thrasher watchers. GO BLUE!

By ranallo10

December 5, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

GSU-Lee and sscribe — Add me to your list of journalism majors from GSU that blog about the Thrashers.

Falconer — With your proposal, do you feel it would be fair to all the current college students that are educating themselves to be journalists, after graduation work their way through the sh!t jobs at places like The Weather Channel, or CNN, and (hopefully) eventually make it to the sports journalist role they’ve always wanted?

Many journalism students have put in a gross quantity of their time and money into simply becoming qualified to be a journalist, but this idea for allowing bloggers the access that those potential journalists aren’t entitled is just down right unfair.

One post every 6 days?? A 13 year old kid can post a blog entry during his lunch break in middle school…and they do that. Your dedication to your blog is commendable, but in the end it’s STILL just a passion of yours. Journalists do it as their job, you do it out of love for your team or the sport.

There’s a difference in regards to accountability. You wouldn’t want to lose press credentials, journalists wouldn’t want to lose their livelihood. You work somewhere else making money, and in the end it doesn’t matter if you’re barred from an NHL game. A journalist would be blacklisted, and likely would have to find another means for an income.

By MB

December 5, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

Can’t blog…must vote!

By GSU-Lee

December 5, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

Ranallo, are you still at GSU? GO PANTHERS, and by the way ssiscribe, I will be using that “Den on Decatur” saying,that is awesome

By Jennifer

December 5, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

I think the fears are vastly overstated. Under the heading of Southeast Shootout I’ve been credentialed by the Capitals, the Predators, and even for a handful of games last year by the Thrashers before they ended the experiment and sent me a form rejection.

First, bloggers who are credentialed have to follow the same code of conduct that the NHL puts on all members of the media.

Second, being credentialed doesn’t give you cart blanche for everything. For example a media credential doesn’t allow you to take any photographs. You need a separate photo credential (with separate access) for that. If that rule is violated then I’d expect my next request to be turned down.

Third, being a blogger doesn’t mean I’m not accountable. Many blogs have rules, standards, and policies that are actually document and enforced by the group. At Shootout we have style rules governing how we write/display stories, content rules stipulating what is acceptable for the site, and we have a loose hierarchy around our writers that helps with some quality control. We aren’t random geeks in mom’s basement. We have college degrees, professional jobs, and most of us have some training in writing. And don’t forget that the entire blogging community keeps you accountable. If we screw up someone will call us on it quickly. The fact that we don’t is pretty evident in the number of respected print and digital publications that have linked to us or spoken about us in a positive light.

I think the Caps prove this can work if the team is willing to put a small amount of effort into setting a policy. Hold an required meeting to discuss rules/expectations and make attendance mandatory if someone wants a credential. Ask a couple of bloggers who have proven themselves to be “mentors” for new people as they are approved. The options for making it work are vast. It’s just not something the organization is willing to entertain.

By Jennifer

December 5, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Just one more thought…

I know a lot of the Thrashers bloggers and the handful of us that would like credentials (and it isn’t all of us) are usually at the games anyway. Most have season tickets. This isn’t about getting a free seat. It is about being able to take something you are writing about to the next level and adding some of the player’s personality to a story that would otherwise be limited to a statistical analysis or something similar.

By Tom

December 5, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

Craig

As a blogger, albeit not a Thrashers bloggers, being on the outside is very powerful.

While you have to have every opinion vetted and also measured against what harm it will do to you in the locker room, bloggers have the ability to swing a little harder. We do not have editors who look for balance, we do not interact with the players. To be honest, this is the role of the media not the blogosphere.

Instead, we analyze the topic in a more partisan and emphatic manner allowing our readers to experience a more passionate experience.

However, I still believe that a reporter such as yourself has a difficult job. You need to balance your opinion with the facts and also be a target for every negative comment while in the lockeroom. That is work while blogging is a blast.

And if you are a blogger and know how to market your site, it can also be pretty profitable.

By Craig Custance

December 5, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

Tom — What’s your blog? I’d like to check it out.

Jennifer — Thanks for weighing in, you make some valid points. You sparked another thought: If your die-hard season-ticket holders realize if they start blogging, they don’t have to renew their season tickets, wouldn’t that create a problem for the team?

By Jeff

December 5, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

To the journalist/attorney. If a person has a blog then that person is published. In my mind it’s no different than printing a newsletter or some other tangible medium.

By ranallo10

December 5, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Jennifer — There’s no dispute that many bloggers are responsible individuals who adhere to some form of guidelines in terms of what they write, how they write it, etc. The problem I’m posing to you is in the overall accountability. Journalists have that accountability, bloggers do not. Just because people don’t click on a website, or other websites don’t reference the blog, doesn’t mean inappropriate actions or behaviors are truly being “punished”.

If you weren’t allowed to write at Shootout, how much would that affect you?

The way I see it, you would personally lose a passion, but you wouldn’t lose a livelihood (like a journalist would).

By Alan

December 5, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

ranallo - From what Jennifer said, bloggers who are credentialed have to follow the same code of conduct that the NHL puts on all members of the media. That’s some pretty good accountability right there. Just because it’s a blog does not mean there is no accountability.

By ranallo10

December 5, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

Alan — I understand that much. The personal conduct is being monitored while they are interviewing the players…but the accountability comes in the final product, i.e. the written story. Where is the accountability there? Site hits? Flash advertisements? Links from more reputable websites??

Spector is an example of a blogger who also works for a news agency, Fox Sports. He has more rights in my opinion than a person who creates their own blog, writes on their favorite sports franchise, and expects press credentials.

I feel people are begging for something they’re not officially qualified for.

Would you hire a person who printed their own degree and maintain their own form of business etiquette, or would you rather hire a person who majored in a specific field from a reputable university? That’s the way I see it…blogger create their own aura of journalism, while schooled journalists have been taught and earned their true title.

By ranallo10

December 5, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

GSU-Lee — I finished last December.

By timmythebrave

December 5, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

I think they should give me my blogging credentials and free tickets to the game. Not that I have anything interesting to say. And it’s not my knowledge of hockey. Trust me. I just need some free tickets and I can act crazy and get everyone fired up. Kind of like what Homer Simpson did for the baseball team the capital city capitals

By The Falconer

December 5, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

re: ranallo10.

You make it sound like fly by night bloggers are trying to take advantage of the team, but keep in mind am providing additional reading material for THEIR product. This is a city where the Thrashers get VERY little attention.

It may not make a lot of sense to credential bloggers in Detroit or Toronto but here in Atlanta the team could certainly benefit from having even amateurs write about it.

By gmlane

December 5, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this

Along with Jennifer, the Falconer, myself, and others, I happen to know that just about all of the bloggers that focus on the Thrashers are at about all of the games. We are just incredibly passionate fans, and wanted to spread interest in the team, and get opinions and thoughts out there.

Why should the Thrashers give bloggers credentials? Because we are that passionate. Because we provide the team publicity and interest for free.

Granted, what we write probably isn’t as good as Craig’s work, or any member of the ‘normal’ media. But they also get paid.

If the team checks out the bloggers on an individual basis, and they feel it is up to snuff, what is the harm with more attention for the team?

By Jennifer

December 6, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

Craig I don’t think the team needs to worry about loosing season ticket holders to blogging and “free” tickets. For starters we all have real jobs and responsibilities that often make it hard to blog at a high quality. I’ve been swamped at work and the blog has suffered. I imagine if you are just blogging to get a free ticket you wont be willing to invest that time. I also don’t know that we all want to watch every game from the press box. I don’t have any interest in writing game recaps so being there every night isn’t really something I’d do. I’d do it when I wanted to talk with someone in particular, probably a few times a month. If I had a “season” credential I might well have it with me just in case something crazy happened during the game and prompted me to shed the jersey and go ask about it after the game. (I’d say major injuries and huge fights could prompt it.)

Frankly as a blogger I’m most interested in player accessibility after the free skate on game days. It didn’t take me long to learn that talking to players after a loss isn’t conducive to the type of story I like to write. (You really would think they all just had a puppy get run over.) I’m sure there is an art to post-game interviews but I can admit I haven’t mastered it. Access to the open locker room early on game day would do much more for me than actual press box access during a game or locker room access after the game. If I could get that kind of access just for weekend home-games it would be a great start. Maybe that is a kind of “trial” mini-credential they could offer us.

I would like to thank you for bringing the conversation up again—and for going public with the “I’m not against it” sentiment.

By Jennifer

December 6, 2007 12:15 AM | Link to this

ranallo10 If I weren’t allowed to write at Shootout it would mean I get much much much more sleep. I’d probably take a break from blogging then consider a new endeavor on my own. It wouldn’t affect my ability to make a mortgage payment, but it would have an affect. We’ve put a lot of work into Shootout and into getting the recognition we have from various sources and loyalty from readers. I couldn’t just start over and recapture it right away. There are hundreds of hockey blogs online…and emerging from that obscurity and getting noticed takes hard work.

By ranallo10

December 6, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

Jennifer — That’s my point though…beyond a personal feeling of disappointment, and beyond the loss of hard work dedicated towards the blog, what impact does it have upon your life? I’m saying that compared to a journalist who would be fired and blacklisted, it has little impact upon your life.

Again, I’m not discounting the hard work and great stuff bloggers bring to the fans of hockey.

But here’s the biggest counter point I can give to any of you…who are the major readers of your blog??

The Falconer — Do you really think that your statistical analysis is bringing more publicity to a team in Atlanta? Who reads your blogs, understands your statistics, and appreciates your analysis? I’d argue “hardcore” fans are your main demographic, and that those hardcore fans would not alienate the team WITHOUT your locker room access. The benefit of giving a blog such as yours (i.e. - one appealing to people who are already hockey fans) access to the locker room is not tangible, and thus I don’t see the urgency for the Atlanta brass to give credentials to bloggers.

Basically, what does Atlanta gain out of it? It gains no new fans (who wants to read a blog simply because you got an interview with Eric Perrin?). It arguably gains them no new ticket sales (anybody reading blogs about the Thrashers have already shown their emotional investment, and likely aren’t going to shell out more money due to this newly granted access). It seemingly gains them nothing more than what they already have, various sources of publicity for their franchise. You will continue blogging about them if you’re not granted access, so they’re not losing anything by withholding that access.

I consider myself a devout fan of the Thrashers, and of hockey. I’m young. However, I read and participate consistently in only ONE blog, the AJC’s. I don’t ever read Southeast Shootout (no offense, but I have no care to either), I have only read The Falconer’s when given a link by someone else, and I occasionally read or partake in Stan Hauseman’s at Hockeybuzz.com. All of you produce good blogs, but they are simply different opinions or takes on the same overall product…my favorite team. Your opinion combined with a sound clip of Garnet Exelby will not influence me to do anything more than continue to be a fan. I just don’t see how that access helps Atlanta.

If I as a devout season ticket holding fan do not want to read the plenitude of blogs about the Thrashers, why would new fans? Would a new fan be brought to the arena due to your question and answers with players like Ilya Kovalchuk?? I argue no it wouldn’t.

By Jennifer

December 6, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

ranallo10 I can’t tell you who all the majors readers are. I certainly know several of my readers. They are more than willing to call me out at a game for my lack of recent posting. While I can’t name all of them I can tell you a lot of things about them. I always include traffic and audience information with any requests I make to the team so we track it closely with multiple stat tools. Since you asked for a snapshot, here are our Top 10 referring sources so far this season:

About 20% of our readers come directly to us either through a bookmark or by typing in the URL.

Another 7.5% are referred through blogger in some manner. This is usually a good indicator that they subscribe to our site feed and clicked through from it.

A little over 7% of our traffic comes from The Blueland Blog. (Note to self…add Ben to my Christmas Card list.)

A little over 6% comes from the Washington Capitals website.

A bit over 5% from Thrashers Times and almost 3% from DC Hockey Daily.

About 6% come from Google searches.

Almost 5% from a link on Canes Country (Bubba must have a serious hockey following in Carolina).

Almost 5% from the Big Lead.

And rounding out the top 10…just over 4% of our visitors come to us after following a link from the AJC website. (I guess Craig gets a Christmas Card too.) This does work both ways. One of the “Top 10 Searches People use to Reach us” is “Craig Custance.”

But really, the only thing this says is that our readers dig hockey and they are so eager to keep reading about hockey that they find us through links all over the place. That voracious need for information is why we are successful and why the team should take a chance on a few of us. Giving us access makes creating new content easier for us because a bit less research is needed. At the end of the day it would result in much more copy about the team.

By ranallo10

December 6, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

I agree, but the end result would be no added revenue for the team, nor added supporters due to the access granted.

Is there a way to quantify what sort of benefit this would give the team? I doubt it.

Your audience is comprised of people actively searching for a hockey blog (clicking links, doing searches, etc). Those people are assumed to already be Thrasher fans, so giving more in-depth coverage will not directly affect the viewing audience of your blog, and thus directly impact the Thrashers.

I just don’t see a correlation between opening the locker room to bloggers, and enhanced/increased coverage and viewership of the product (the Thrashers).

By Jennifer

December 6, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

We might not make “new fans” but I think we can often turn casual fans into more serious fans. Take someone who goes to 2 or 3 games a year and turn them into someone who goes to 12 games a year. Big financial impact? Not really. Better educated fans? More enthusiastic fans? Potentially. And that has value for a franchise, even if it is hard to quantify it with a dollar amount.

By ranallo10

December 6, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

That’s a good point, I can concede that one to you.

However, do you feel that without the access your blog would not be able to serve that same purpose (increasing interest)?

Personally, I don’t think allowing bloggers into the locker room will create more season ticket sales, nor lead to more sell outs of Phillips Arena.

By Maal

December 6, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Haha, Ben (comment 2)!

Yet another Thrashers blogger chiming in. I probably write one of the least respected (and perhaps funniest? Can I call myself funny? Bah, I’m doin’ it!), at least in the traditional sense, blogs about the Thrash, but I don’t do it so I can get any sort of “credentials” or “recognition.” To know there’s more than people I personally know reading it is the biggest thrill of all. Personally, I love hockey, and I write. 1+1=2. Anyone who starts up a blog in hopes of being on the receiving end of press credentials needs their head examined, for exactly the reasons mentioned. As bloggers, we HAVE no accountability. If I want to say that so and so played like crap, or rip on the Panthers, I can. Would I say it to a player’s face? Hell yes I would, and I have many, many times. But with that innocuous press pass comes the weight of responsibility and watching what you say. Where’s the fun in that? Getting a blog does not circumnavigate a journalism degree or a working your way up the ladder at the local paper, and it’s ridiculous if people think otherwise.

Adam pretty much hit the nail on the head. Blogs should be for entertainment purposes only. Do I post news on my blog? Of course. News someone else already wrote and posted elsewhere. The service we provide is to existing fans. MAYBE I could make someone MORE of a fan of Eric Perrin or Kari Lehtonen than they were already, but 99% chance they came to my blog as a Thrashers fan (or hate the Panthers).

Wait… did I have a point? Hm. Probably not. So I’ll sum up then GBTW. Bloggers ≠ Journalists, and shouldn’t feel entitled to the same privileges. Besides, don’t y’all sit way up high in the press box? What fun is THAT? :)

By ranallo10

December 6, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

Maal — I agree.

By The Falconer

December 6, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

ranallo10:

Based upon your comments it sounds like you are not a major consumer of blogger product (which is fine, I tend not to read the more rah-rah blogs myself, it is a free country). So your personal experience may not be the best way to evaluate the impact of bloggers.

Let’s say that someone goes to a Thrashers game and knows very little about NHL hockey and/or the Thrashers team. But they see Exelby make a huge hit and they go away excited about that one player.

They go home and do a google search on Exelby. Probably the first thing they find are AJC articles about him and YouTube clips. But if that fan wants more information he/she will likely end up on fan blogs since there is so little coverage of the Thrashers out there.

Now if that fan becomes more excited about Exelby or the Altanta Thrashers then he/she is more likely to buy tickets, jerseys, etc which DOES put money into the pocket of Atlanta Spirit.

I would agree with you that bloggers may be poor instruments for recruiting new fans, but I would say that they can be very useful in turning casual fans into more intense consumers of NHL hockey.

As I say in my blog post on this topic, the Thrashers don’t need to be the top team in the Atlanta market but they do need 18,000 intensely interested fans each night they are open for business.

By Maal

December 6, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Thanks, ranallo!

By ranallo10

December 6, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

The Falconer — I am a major contributor on this blog, but not on blogs as a whole. I don’t have the time nor the patience to have debates on more than one site at a time!

But I understand your points.

I feel your example would work no matter if you had an interview with Exelby or not. That casual fan could find plenty of information from the blogs, or partake in those blogs and learn about Exelby from the other bloggers. An interview with Garnett Exelby would be beneficial, but is not necessary. They could get that same interview from Custance at the Beat Writer Blog.

By Craig Custance

December 6, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

Jenn — So all those times I Google myself and click on the links helps you out? Glad I could help.

By ranallo10

December 6, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this

Craig — If the proposed idea was changed to a blogger being allowed to sit between the benches for a game (helmet optional), I would start a blog tomorrow and be posting every 3 hours. That had to be a great experience.