AJC > Sports > Thrashers > Blog > Archives > 2007 > October > 24 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USHedberg getting in a groove
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
So is it ever good when they announce that the plane you’re supposed to fly from Toronto to Atlanta had to be re-routed to Cincinnati and now they’re trying to find another plane? No? Didn’t think so. But here I am, in beautiful gate A1d in Toronto. Waiting.
Big win for the Thrashers last night, they needed that one. For the most part, they did a lot of good things. They stayed out of the penalty box, except for a brutal Bobby Holik roughing penalty that not only led to a Maple Leafs power play goal, but happened behind the play, which was a Slava Kozlov (if I remember correctly) led rush up the ice.
I was sitting next to Ken Campbell, who writes for the Hockey News (and did the great cover story on Thomas Vanek, give it a read if you haven’t already). About the moment Toronto pulled the goalie in the final minute, I turned to him and said - ‘there’s no way this game doesn’t go into overtime, right?’ He smiled, because we both knew. Toronto was getting too many good looks in the final couple minutes and it just seemed like a matter of time.
For the first time all season, the Thrashers showed the ability to overcome adversity. This is a team so far that has fallen apart at the first sign of trouble. But in this game, Toronto scored before the guy who sang the anthems found his seat. And that last goal could have been devastating. The Toronto crowd was going crazy in the overtime, and you just could feel the momentum building in their favor. But if there was one play that turned the tide, it was a defensive gem from Steve McCarthy. Toronto had a 3-on-1 midway through overtime and he sprawled on the ice to break up a pass. Moose didn’t even see a shot. It was an absolutely great play, one I wish I could have included in the game story, but I pounded that out in about five minutes. Sorry Mac, that was a great play that should have been in there.
The Kovalchuk line was outstanding. Anytime you get eight points (Kovy 3, White 2, Perrin 3) from one line, things are probably going pretty well. Marian Hossa, however, was a non-factor. He’s due a big game sometime soon. Slava Kozlov played better - he was one of four Thrashers to finish with four shots (Dupuis, Little, and Sterling the other three). And Kozzie looked as dependable as ever in the shootout. Tobias Enstrom had another strong game. What a find he’s turning out to be.
As for Moose, after the game you could tell he was still pretty upset about that last goal, even though the Thrashers pulled out the win. Until that goal, the third period was as good as I’ve seen him play all season. He was making big saves in an attempt to get out of Toronto with a win. After the game, he said he was starting to get in a groove for the first time this season. I don’t know when Don is planning on starting Pavelec, but I’d hold off if I was him because Hedberg seems to be getting his legs under him.
I asked him if this is as good as he’s felt all season, and he answered: “Yeah, but it’s all pretty relative, right?” He finished with 32 saves and took out Mats Sundin in the shootout. I think he’s on to something there, just take out the shooter and you’re in good shape.
Alright, I’m rambling, being stuck at your gate for hours at a time will do that for you. I should be able to get to a lot of your comments this morning if there’s anything you have questions about. Also, I’m turning the reins over to Carroll Rogers for Nashville and Chicago so expect a new coach, Hossa extension, blockbuster trade and winning streak while I’m trying to sneak away for a couple days.
Comments
By Adam
October 24, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
1ST…
By Jennifer
October 24, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
No offense Craig, but if all that happens while you are gone I’ll personally start lobbying for the AJC to trade you to the Anchorage Daily News ;)
By Adam
October 24, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
Since you’ve got time Craig I was wondering if Don has said anything about the D lately. Is he planning on letting one of the youngsters some minutes soon? Also I like to see his address the SOG, they need to find a way to keep it under 30.
By Buzilla Baby Blues
October 24, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this
Anyone know what Hedberg was so upet about during that last goal? Did he think it was kicked in or what? It looked like a pretty standard ‘whack home’ kind of goal.
Anyone?
Bueller?
By Craig Custance
October 24, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this
Adam - Nice work.
Jennifer — None taken. Can you at least ship me somewhere in the continental United States?
Adam - Right now, I think Waddell is depending on improved play from the veterans. Listen, if this team is going to be any good, it’s going to need guys like Alexei Zhitnik and Niclas Havelid. It’s that simple. They need to work through whatever they’re dealing with. I’m not sure there’s anybody else ready (outside Popovic) in the system to help out. But I hear what you’re saying Adam, that turnover by Havelid that led to Gill’s goal was pretty bad. And if you look, Z’s ice time was down to 14:17. That’s something, considering he was playing 28 minutes a game down the stretch last year. Enstrom led the team in ice time last night with 28:05 - it’s becoming evident that he’s the guy the coaching staff trusts the most on D in nearly every situation.
By PuckedUP
October 24, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this
Don’t care why he’s upset. Glad to see the emotion. Glad they got the win. Nice to see the Kovy line producing. Not glad to see Hossa or Kozlov not producing. But right now I’m willing to take resolutions to problems one at a time.
By Craig Custance
October 24, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this
Buzilla — He thought there should have been a whistle. He thought he had it covered. That’s as ticked as I’ve ever seen him.
By Jenn
October 24, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this
Buzilla Didn’t he say he thought he had it covered or something?
By Craig Custance
October 24, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this
Also - I’m openly soliciting friends for my new Facebook page. I’m trying to improve my networking and was told Facebook is a great place to do that. But then I realized that after my brother, I don’t know anybody else on Facebook. So if you have a page, look me up - or whatever it is you do on Facebook.
By Thrasher Ryan
October 24, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this
I am actually starting to like Waddell’s lines. But, here’s a line that we haven’t seen yet that I think will work: Dupuis-Little-Hossa. Speed, Speed, Speed. Heck, it’s worth a shot. On the trade front, here is what I think. Brad Larsen is as good as gone. Remember, Larsen was a Hartley favorite. How about Larsen/Slater/Havelid (or Zhitnik) to Toronto for Kaberle/Raycroft/draft pick(maybe). That moves clears some cap space while providing depth at the goalie position (which all of a sudden we need). Later on in December, after Lehtonen returns, we trade Holik/Lehtonen/Klee to Los Angeles Kings for some of their young guys. Just some food for thought. The time to make a move is now. As far as Pavelec getting his first start, I think you let the Moose start at Nashville, and Pavelec to start at Chicago. My $.02. Also, Thrashers mangement needs to address the lack of radio coverage (need stronger signal) in metro ATL and why are so many games this season NOT ON TV?
By Thrasher Ryan
October 24, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this
CC—This is totally off topic, but if you get a chance, ask Waddell if he thinks we will ever see Ilya Nikulin play as a Thrasher.
By GaVaHokie
October 24, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this
The commentators on Sportsnet were raving about Enstrom, they thought he was one of the best players on the ice last night.
By Craig Custance
October 24, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this
Thrasher Ryan — From what I understand Nikulin is making pretty good money in Russia, so he’d have to want to come over and probably take a pay cut. I can understand why he’d be hesitant.
I haven’t looked, because I’m usually at the games, but is the Nashville game not on TV?
By Craig Custance
October 24, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this
GaVaHokie: Who did the game on Sportsnet?
By R. Stroz
October 24, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this
Craig - Nashville game is on SportsSouth.
By kracker
October 24, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this
Craig - Any chance Hoss may be playing a little tentatively due to the groin strain suffered after the second game? If I recall correctly it’s his first time with a significant groin injury so he may be playing conservatively until he’s 100%.
I don’t know facebook but there are Thrashers fans and lots of general hockey ppl on myspace. My page is myspace.com/kracker0
By Craig Custance
October 24, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this
Stroz - Thanks. Good to know I won’t have to go to the local BW3s to catch the game.
kracker - You may be right about Hossa.
By hockeythrahs
October 24, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
Craig - any chance we will see a return of the Sterling Little Haydar line? They seem to be more effective than last nights edition in Toronto with Hossa playing with Sterling and Little. Haydar seems to make opportunities every time he is on the ice. A beatiful cycle led by Haydar resulted in the 3rd goal.
We have seen Haydar on the 4th line last year…it is not the best use of his skill.
By Nate
October 24, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this
That game last night was the reason I became a hockey fan. And even the Leafs announcers were giving the Thrash props.
By Craig Custance
October 24, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this
hockeythrahs - I think haydar deserves more ice time, but it’s tough right now. Where do you put him? You can’t split up Kovalchuk/White/Perrin after the game they had last night. You can’t put him on the checking line with Holik. He’s caught in the numbers game right now. But you’re right, he’s been making plays out there.
By GaVaHokie
October 24, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this
Craig… I believe it was the usual Leaf broadcast team… Harry Neale and Bob Cole.
By Thrasher Ryan
October 24, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this
CC—Do you have any nuggets on potential trades? Or is Don so busy that he is not talking to anybody? I feel a trade is imminent.
By Sara
October 24, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Craig I want to know why the team still doesn’t have a consistent presence in front of the net - particularly on the PP? The player that gets “in front” is still usually at least 5 or 6 feet away from the crease - not good enough to screen/aggravate the goalie/draw the attention of a PKer to distract him. The backdoor to a goal is frequently wide open (a la how Slava got his goal the other night) yet no one is ever consistently hanging out there. Drives me crazy.
You know it occurs to me that maybe Donnie needs to watch a few broadcast games - I’m beginning to think we have a better view than he does. :P
By Buzilla Baby Blues
October 24, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
Damn Craig. You still in the airport?
By hockeythrash
October 24, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this
Craig and GaVaHokie - not Harry Neale. He is with Buffalo broadcast team. Lives around Buffalo so closer to home. Leafs broadcast team is Joe Bowen and Greg Millen now.
By ranallo10
October 24, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Craig — during the broadcast last night they mentioned Dupuis had gone to the locker room. Any news on what happened?? I saw him for the third period so wasn’t TOO worried, but losing him would hurt (who replaces him? JP Vigier?? shudder)
By Brian
October 24, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
So are we doing the first beer thing here too, or just on Rawhide’s? If so, don’t let Buzilla win. As seen on Rawhide’s blog, it can be devastating to the team
Craig - the Preds game is on TV Thu, but the Blackhawks game will not be on Sat…
Hokie - I thought Harry Neale & Co. were the CBC team only?
By Brian
October 24, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this
Hockeythrash - Neale just signed that 3 year deal with Buffalo but is still doing CBC. He will do 70 Sabres games with Robitaille (former teammate of the original Walt Tkachuk) doing the rest. Thankfully, Jeanerette is still there.
By Brendan
October 24, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this
The L.A. Kings have become a very exciting team to watch these days. I doubt very seriously that it would part with any of its young guns, barring abject highway robbery. Supposedly, GM Lombardi thinks his Kings are a little bit “too old.” So, he certainly won’t move his “foundation” pieces.
I do wonder, however, at what point the Kings will make a move for a goaltender. If they got one, they could become a playoff team this year. Labarbara shows some “potential,” but I think they know they have to better address their goaltending.
The Leafs announcers discussed Hossa’s new agent. “Mitch” someone or other. Who knows? Maybe the contract being up in the air is what is causing Hossa’s slow start. If Hossa does want to leave, I think the “fair” thing to do … would be for him to indicate where he wants to be traded. Don Waddell strikes me as an “accommodating” man.
I’m not saying a Hossa trade would be a ‘popular move’ for Thrashers fans. But I do think “reasonable” people understand that Hossa could be lost for nothing, or for less than a favorable exchange … down the road, or this Summer.
By ranallo10
October 24, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this
Does anybody know if Center Ice Package is offered in HD? It’s disappointing to see the only game in HD last night was the Rangers (ick).
By GaVaHokie
October 24, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this
Yeah, maybe it was Bowen… I know they sounded familiar, that’s all I can say.
By Matt H
October 24, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this
What?! An untelevised Blackhawks game?!?
Clutch the pearls!
By Brian
October 24, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this
Matt H - I was also thinking, of all the Chicago jerseys in the stands next Sat, how many will be Blackhawks and how many will be Wolves?
By Buzilla Baby Blues
October 24, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this
Center Ice is offered in HD,IF and only if, you have the dish. I personally do not, and I have to deal with the low def crap
By Sara
October 24, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
Brendan Hossa’s new agent is Rich Winter.
By Sara
October 24, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this
To follow up on my previous thought/comment…this is NOT the guy you want representing Hossa.
For more on Mr. Winter, read the following.
http://snowcrash.ca/blawg/2006/07/rich-winter-agent-provocateur.html
By Adam
October 24, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
Brian - The question should be how many hockey fans will even show up?
It’s good to hear that there’s already talk of improving the TV coverage up there. It didn’t even take a month after Dollar Bill was gone for that to come up. Hopefully it’s a sigh of better thing to come!!
By Brian
October 24, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this
Sara - thanks for the info. $@%! though, I remember Rich Winter from the first Hasek negotiations in Buffalo, this is NOT the guy I want representing Hossa right now if I am a Thrashers fan.
Adam - between Dollar Bill & Jeremy Jacobs in Boston, it’s amazing that the Blackhawks and Bruins are still considered among the Original Six teams.
By Surly T
October 24, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
rannallo & buzilla I have the HD Center Ice deal through Comcast. Unfortunately, in my experience, not all games are broadcast in HD. So even if you have the package you get the low def feed for alot of games.
brendan None of us knows for sure obviously, but can’t Hossa’s slow start be attributed to his injury and team turmoil? He was my favorite player during the regular season last year (no comment on the disappearing act against the Rangers) and worth every penny we paid him. I suspect he’ll have a breakout game one of these nights when everything falls into place. A quality new coach could inspire him as well. I predict Hossa will be worth his salary this year and should play his heart out to increase his value for free agency. If we’re out of the playoff hunt come trade deadline time, we might see him sold to someone else for a couple picks. Earlier trades could be worthwhile, depending on who we would get in return, but Waddell hasn’t exactly proved himself to be the star negotiator. I say, let Hossa work through his funk on our watch and increase his value before trying to move him.
By **Islander Invasion**
October 24, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this
Cannot believe we don’t play you bums for another month. Go Isles! And don’t listed to sec 317’s drunken philosopher, ba ba Buzilla. Sure he sports a baby blue Holik jersey, but underneath there is something hidden from you thrasher folk. There is an extra small (circa 1988) Sean Burke Devils jersey being used as a corset to keep him in his size 36 levi’s.
By Brian
October 24, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this
Islander Invasion -
Ted Nolan is overrated. Take it from a Buffalo/Niagara guy who eventually learned it.
You can’t bold your name when signing on.
The more I learn about Buzilla, the more I find it likely that I will be on the floor one day in the corner in the fetal position hoping that’s not him knocking on my door. (p.s. - there is an urban legend in section 317 that says the only reason he wears that Sean Burke jersey is because he ripped his Frankie say relax t-shirt).
By JayBird
October 24, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this
Is that the guy in the Z-Cavarichi pants?
By GaVaHokie
October 24, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this
The Buzilla I know where’s huggy shorts and a fanny pack that’s stuffed with marta tokens and crayola modeling clay.
By Jennifer
October 24, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this
Craig, if you are really at fault for all the team woes this year then we really can’t allow you in the continental US. Just be happy I’d trade you to Anchorage rather than the Xinhua news agency. Do enjoy your time away though.
By Katmai Hockey
October 24, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this
Jenn:
Would you trade CC for Doyle Woody?
Say it isn’t so.
CC is the MVP (or MVR most valuable reporter) for our Thrashers.
My vote is no trade.
By Katmai Hockey
October 24, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this
Keep Craig in the “Lesser 48”
By Brendan
October 24, 2007 6:09 PM | Link to this
Sara, I stand corrected and thank you for that most excellent link on Rich Winter. I am more nervous now than ever about Hossa’s contract.
Surly T., if Hossa has to be traded, I hope it goes as you say, while his “value” is at its utmost. Though, honestly, his longevity in this league, coupled with his string of 40-goal campaigns and 80-plus point seasons leads me to think, He’ll make his money … almost NO MATTER WHAT.
Right about now Rich Winter is probably thinking, “I’ve got the most highly sought after UFA for this Summer … we’re gonna make ‘em pay through the nose.” Well, I wouldn’t doubt that that’s precisely what will happen.
I posted this once before, but … if Hossa is to be a “trade deadline casualty,” there’s nothing that says Waddell cannot put Keith Tkachuk-liens all over the rental team that picks up Hossa. As in, “a 1st and 3rd, plus a 2nd rounder, plus ANOTHER “conditional” 1st round pick if Hossa re-signs with your club.” Hey, the Blues did it to us! If that’s the return for Hossa … and we manage to get Hossa back, like the Blues did with Tkachuk, how many of you will scream about it?
By ranallo10
October 24, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this
Surly T — What channels are your Center Ice HD package on? When I ordered they told me none were in HD, and during broadcasts (like tonight’s Detroit game) you hear them advertise as being FSN HD but it’s dumbed down to a shiny SD.
I better not have wasted my damn money with Comcast when BuzBurke gets his for free…AGAIN.
By Tony C.
October 24, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this
I’ll find out about the HD content for sure, but it was my understanding that Only some arenas have HD rigs set-up and that many but not all games will be availible in HD.
ranallo-email me your acct.# and I’ll see if there’s a promo I can give you.
17 is the man!Also, anybody other than Valabik y’all really are serious about calling up from Chi.?
GO BLUE !!!
By Rone
October 24, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this
Other than Valabik?
You could replace any D man on the Thrashers right now with Boris, and the team would be better. Yeah, I said it.
We need someone to strike some kind of fear into opponents, and our roster currently has no one to fit that description. Brashear scares the crap out of me while I’m sitting in 317 at Philips, but he skates like he’s wearing slippers. You have to be willing to sacrifice some playing skills for the other dimensions that Goons bring to the game.
I’m greatful that we beat the leafs, but what could it hurt to replace one of our D-men with Boris?
By MassiveFan
October 25, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this
If Alfresson, Heatley and Spezza played on completely different lines, would they score as much? No way. When you have 3 players with smarts and talent like Kovy, Hossa and Kozlov, how in the world can they be on 3 seperate lines???? It is absurd. The only reason they scored 4 goals on Toronto is because Toronto has only one defensive defensemen, Hal Gill, and he doesn’t get enough minutes. I was sure this would change with Waddel, but, I guess he’s no smarter than……
By Buzilla Baby Blues
October 25, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this
What the hell is going on here? I am getting attacked from all sides. I got some douche Islander fan that is just bent because his stupid @ss team signed Mandy Sutton. Not to mention Jon Sim. When your team is built from the scraps of the Thrashers how well can that team really be doing? As for the “man” Islander Invasion, this man changes team allegations slightly more often than he shaves his back.
I seem to remember him sitting in section 317 at Phillips, happy as a drunken clam. Then one day, the big apple came calling and he scraps the Thrash off like it was stuck to his shoe. Now he is back on the Island…Wearing his snot orange and blue with pride. Eating his Gordon Fisherman fish sticks before every game, because he thinks its lucky.
I do not own a Burke jersey (That is Hankadoo) I did own a “Christmas” Devils jersey that was way too small for me. It has been sacrificed in the Jersey exchange program for a good cause. Now the little orphan that sits next to me can proudly boast his retro Ultimate warrior jersey.
So stay away from our blog Islander fan. Don’t taint our site with your lies and fish stix. May all your players get gonorrhea and the seven year itch
By Buzilla Baby Blues
October 25, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this
Spezza is a free agent this summer
By Hip Czech
October 25, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this
I guess at this point it is safe to assume that Little will not be returning to his Junior team?
Ouch, the Hossa comments about ‘tanking, half-hearted, mailing it in’ really hurt. What would a player in his contract year have to gain by tanking his season (see Andruw Jones)? I guess possibly by playing lousy he is trying to force a trade, but who would trade for him unsigned?
I think Hossa’s play is definitely due to the injury. Let’s hope it doesn’t linger much longer.
By GaVaHokie
October 25, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this
Buzz… I thought maybe it was one of your NY buddies just joking around with you at first… what a butt f**k this guy is! I hope Andy Sutton invades his a*******hole.
He obviously has withdrawal issues if he can’t stay away… we don’t play the Islanders for another month and he’s on here trolling around.
By Buzilla Baby Blues
October 25, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this
Lets hope he is not a avid reader of this blog
By GaVaHokie
October 25, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this
Buzz… not a chance in hell Spezza comes to Atlanta. Who do you think he’ll ask for advise on what it’s like playing in Atlanta?… Heatley, perhaps?
By Buzilla Baby Blues
October 25, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this
GaVaHolik…I do the guy. We grew up together. He is sitting in his cube at Lehman Bro’s laughing his @ss off.
By Buzilla Baby Blues
October 25, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this
I do know the guy is what I meant…
I don’t do guys. Just ask Mrs. Buzilla
By ranallo10
October 25, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this
Hokie and Buzilla — I have little doubt that Spezza will be re-signed and Redden let walk (unless they can do something with Gerber’s contract). Since he’s an RFA I doubt Spezza will sniff Atlanta.
But one (or three) can hope.
Tony C. — I appreciate the offer to help…what’s your email address?
By ranallo10
October 25, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this
If we’re calling up guys to strike fear in the heart of our opponents, I’d look at Desbiens and Valabik (I’ll say it again, these two are badass #1 and #2).
However, a more practical call up would be someone like LaVallee, as he will defend himself, but is also a productive winger.
I’d rather give Popovic time on defense RIGHT NOW than Valabik, so maybe Desbiens is the only call up possible that can “strike fear” and not be hurt developmentally by playing 4th line minutes (I don’t think he’ll be anything more than a 4th liner in the NHL).
By GaVaHokie
October 25, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
Buzz… okay, I figured… but does that mean the Gordon’s fish stick thing is true? :)
By GaVaHokie
October 25, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this
Ranallo… I think you’re right. Redden will walk. And I bet he walks right to the Leafs.
They better trade Redden sometime this year.
By FormerIslesFan
October 25, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this
Hey ‘zilla,
Surely you’re not dissing me too, are you?
By Buzilla Baby Blues
October 25, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this
Not at all.
A. You clearly state that you are a former Isles fan.
B. I know the other guy. He is in my wedding. I don’t know you (at least I don’t think I do) so I wouldn’t break your balls too bad.
gAvAHOLIC - I made up the fish stix story… and the back shaving thing. The rest is true though.
By Brian
October 25, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
Buzzilla - I am tuning in a little late here, but I just read that you do some guy in your wedding????
By R. Stroz
October 25, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
No wonder ranallo is fighting an itch.
By Buzilla Baby Blues
October 25, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this
you may need to sharpen your reading skills
By ranallo10
October 25, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this
1?Damn, I thought I had it this time…
By Surly T
October 25, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this
ranallo Sorry for the delay, I actually have to work sometimes. My Comcast Center Ice channels are the 770s.
brendan There’s nothing that says Waddell cannot put Keith Tkachuk-liens all over the rental team that picks up Hossa um…perhaps Waddell’s repuation for incompetence could be a hindrance.
By R. Stroz
October 25, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this
Clarification - No wonder ranallo is fighting that itch after spending time with Buzilla’s fiance.
Buzilla - It’s time you figured out which way you want to swing your bat.
By Brian
October 25, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this
ranollo - you just missed it. But keep trying, we can’t let Buzilla win.
By Buzilla Baby Blues
October 25, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this
I am poised and ready to Win!!!!
By Brian
October 25, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this
NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
By Brendan
October 25, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
Now Surly T, that’s just the kind of “talk” that will get your labeled as a “Waddell-hater.” :)
I was being serious about putting Tkachuk-like liens on the rental team. I mean, if a team at the deadline reeeeally wants/needs Hossa, they’ll agree to it. I think so, anyway. If not, they’ll at least have to answer to a potentially angry fanbase that argues, “Why didn’t you pay it? We needed Hossa. Our team not having Hossa is what cost us (pick one) a) not making the playoffs, b)not winning our division for a higher seed, c) not winning our 1st round series, d) not winning the Conference Finals, or even the Cup, etc. They’ll argue … well, we’re “expected” to do well in the coming years, so our draft position will be low 1st rounders anyway. We’re talking about “throw away” picks … that’s what Waddell was demanding in exchange for Hossa. As in 21st to 30th overall selections.”
Now, that’s debatable, obviously. It depends on which team and where they are at the trade deadline, etc. If it’s some “bubble” team just trying to get in … and they fail, that 1st round pick might be something like 12th overall. Which isn’t a great pick, but still reflects “fertile ground” for finding someone, assuming the team in question has competent scouting. Etc., Etc. Ad nauseum.
By ranallo10
October 25, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
Okay, here’s my take about the conditional first round pick idea.
There is one important difference between the Hossa and Tkachuk situations that would disuade any taker to signing onto that agreement. In order for Tkachuk to get traded last season, St. Louis needed to receive his permission due to a NTC (No Trade Clause). Which means that St. Louis had to find a trade partener that Tkachuk wanted to play for in order to get his consent for the trade.
Why is this important? Well, St. Louis didn’t WANT to trade him, they would rather have kept him and re-signed him in the offseason (a virtual lock based on his spoken love of the city)…however, they honored his goal of a Stanley Cup, and wanted to get something substantial in return. What they used the conditional first round pick for is “insurance” that if Tkachuk liked his new destination more than St. Louis (meaning, if he decided to stay in that new city for another year), they wanted additional compensation.
Hossa is different, he doesn’t need to approve of any trade. Atlanta has a lot less leverage on his ultimate destination after this offseason, and has a lot of freedom on where they want to trade him. A compensatory/conditional pick would be a fruitless bargaining point because Hossa has many years left in his career, can get top dollar anywhere, and likely will test free agency if he’s dealt from Atlanta to a team he might not want to play for.
Simply put, if Atlanta says “we want a first rounder if you sign him in 2008”, the trade partner will give the counter offer of “well, that means you only get a guaranteed second rounder, because we’re not guaranteeing you two firsts as a punishment for us signing an UFA”.
To ask for a conditional first rounder will take away from his ultimate return value, and could cost the Thrashers a player like Parent or Upshall (dealt with Forsberg) … just for the CHANCE at getting another first round pick (likely a mid level pick, as Brendan pointed out above) if Hossa decided to stay in his newest location.
It’s not worth it in my opinion. I’ll take a high level prospect before I’d take a conditional pick.
By Tony C.
October 25, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this
I agree, if you trade Hoss, you must get a player that has somewhat proven their ability albeit with tremendous upside (A Bryan Little-type player) and a pick.
Hoss is an all-universe caliber winger when he is right, even if you were to get a “lock” first-round pick, its no garauntee of NHL-level succes (see Patrik Stefan). So I would think you get a young 2nd-liner and a low-first/high 2nd round pick.
But best thing would be for Hoss to decide to come along wth the rest ofthe team, get Rucchin IR’d out. Then get some high-dollar rentals and or a one-year UFA (Foppa is the only choice I see in this category).
Still you just can’t let Hoss walk for nothing.
ranallo hispeedtest@hotmail.com be sure and put “ranallo” in the subject line.
GO BLUE !!!
By Brian
October 25, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this
ranollo - the biggest thing that I took away from your post was that Tkachuk wanted to play here so badly that he waved his No Trade Clause. So why does everyone here say that no one wants to come to Atlanta? Because we don’t have 10 different $7 million players on our roster? Kozlov took a pay cut to stay here compared to what Dallas was offering him…
By Tom
October 25, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this
Walt wanted to come here because his good buddy Scott Mellanby was playing his last season and called in a marker. That and having the chance to play in the playoffs for a team with some talent made him wave teh no trade clause.
I do not think that coming to ATL for the rest of his career was in the cards, but the chance to play with a good friend in his last season was.
By Midfield
October 25, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this
Why everyone is so worked up about Hossa contract? There are three possibilities:
a) Atlanta tanks by spring despite Hossa’s great play, and he definitely gets traded to a play off team;
b) Atlanta turns it around big time - with Hossa’s help, in which case it becomes more complicated, but who would complain about that?
c) Hossa continues on with his 3rd line level performance, in which case who cares if he walks away? How many of you will moan about Havelid if he is not resigned? I thought so. Remember, he used to be our BEST defenseman.
By Brian
October 25, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this
Tom - point still being that a player who is good enough to have a no trade clause came to Atlanta, this whole perception of no one wants to come here is based on what?
By ranallo10
October 25, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this
Free Agents, what they say about this city, etc.
If you were Daniel Briere, would you rather play for Philadelphia or Atlanta? If you were Scott Gomez or Chris Drury, would you rather New York or Atlanta??
Big name Free Agent acquisitions have never happened here (with the possible exception of Holik).
This SOMEWHAT substantiates the theory that big name players do not want to play in Atlanta.
By GaVaHokie
October 25, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this
Ranallo… Does Bondra count?
By Surly T
October 25, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this
I am relatively new to Atlanta but I don’t think there is any top-player bias against coming here to play. Money and the prospects of growth (whether they are overstated in the recruitment process or not) are the keys.
By Brian
October 25, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this
Ranollo - when have we had the budget to go out and get the big name free agent? We have either been an expansion team, a team still growing, or a team that already has multiple superstars on it. Whether it is Kovy with Heatley or Hossa, we have already had our big name players. When have we ever been in the position to have an extra $10 million to drop like Philly did this offseason when Forseberg left? Now if Hossa is gone this year, that will leave an extra $7 - 8 million in cap space that we will have our first true opportunity. Until that time comes, you can’t say that Briere or Drury turned us down.
By Brendan
October 25, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this
Todd White has garnered 11 of the 652 votes cast on the opinion poll, for “Who is the Thrashers best offensive weapon?” While Ilya Kovalchuk has scored 535 of those 652 votes. Someone might want to point that out to AJC Columnist Mark Bradley. Then again, I’m sure Bradley would argue, “That still doesn’t make him ‘less special as he ages.’ It just means he may be the best of what the Thrashers have got.” Well, moving right along then.
I wonder how Marian Hossa feels about those 11 votes cast for the Center Waddell acquired for him on a 4-year deal this summer. I hear ya, though! “Maybe Hossa was the one who cast all eleven (11) of those votes?” I guess there’s no way of knowing, right?
By Thrasher Ryan
October 25, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this
Brendan—I did cast 1 of the 11 for White because I felt bad for him. My other 57 votes were for Ilya because let’s face it, this was NOT a trick question.
By Brendan
October 25, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this
I don’t know if Waddell did try to get Briere or Drury. Only the FBI wiretap knows for sure.
But, I’d argue that when Atlanta has good ownership, enjoys an excellent roster, including a solid core nucleus of young talent, with a good GM and Coach, that it ought to represent an attractive market for free agents to consider.
In the end, I think players just want to win. If the Phoenix Coyotes were “knockin’ on the door” of a Stanley Cup Championship, players would want to go there, assuming there’s not ownership issues, personality clashes with Gretzky or the coaching staff, etc.
But, when a team is new … or struggling … I think the best way to bring in a Superstar is to “draft” him. Like we did with Kovalchuk, Heatley, Lehtonen, etc. Free agents cost a lot. Free agency is not supposed to be the mechanism by which a team fills out its roster. It’s supposed to be there to “tweak” it.
It’d be an interesting study if a team could start from zero (0) players and field a team with nothing but unrestricted free agents … and still fit under the cap. There’s also a fairly good chance that team would be the oldest in the NHL. Remember, nothing but FREE AGENTS. Oh allright!! Someone’s gonna say it. “What about they type III, IV, V, and VI category free agents,” who are young, but nobody really wants them, so they “become” free agents at like 23 or 24. Uggh. I meant filling out a roster with “good” free agents. Players that GM’s would actually pay good money to have.
By Thrasher Ryan
October 25, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this
Free agents cost a lot. Free agency is not supposed to be the mechanism by which a team fills out its roster. It’s supposed to be there to “tweak” it. Excellent point, Brendan. Now, if only someone could pass that tip along to Waddell…
By B. Thenet
October 25, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this
As bad as this season has been so far, this display of sloppy, lazy, gutless hockey the Thrashers have puked onto the ice halfway through the game is without question the worst I have seen so far.
Perhaps the Preds gooning it up might wake them up, but I doubt it.
By Tom
October 25, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this
Watching McCarthy play defense is like watching a horror movie.
You constantly want to yell ” Watch out behind you!”
By Tom
October 25, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this
Brian
If I was a free agent I would look at potential to get paid, potential to win, and potential to have long term success.
If the last two were not on the table then I would really want to get paid a premium to come to a city.
That being said, Atlanta’s ownership is a mess. We see it every day so it is not new, but an agent trying to explain the headaches in the owners suite would raise a red flag.
Then as the agent started telling the all star player some of the other free agent signings that the Thrashers have made in the past couple of years, more red flags would be raised.
That player would not be expecting other top free agents racing to play with them so the opportunity to have long term success would be limited.
So the only reason to sign with the Thrashers is that their is a price premium to play here. Waddell will not pay the premium so that leaves the second tier players who will be able to play a line up than they typically do. So a White who would be a second or third line player in Detroit will be a first or second line player here with some power play potential.
The worst thing is they can pad some stats on a better line.
But the top line free agent has no motivation to come to the Thrashers right now. We will first need to overpay a couple of top line free agents to show our commitment to winning and then create the environment that we will commit to excellence.
Until then the Thrashers will remain a mediocre team. And that makes me very sad…
By shoot it
October 25, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this
As much as I want to root for them, the Thrahsers are just a bunch of average players, but for Kovalchuk, Hossa, Little and Enstrom. Yet Waddell continues to give McCarthy, Klee and Slater ice time. I agree with those who say bring up the rookies from the Wolves and give them developemental time. I hate to say it but this season is over.
By B. Thenet
October 25, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this
I think the Thrashers owners need to come to the practice facility the next time they hand out paychecks, and ask each player individually if they think they are worth their paycheck.
Yet another bum goaltender gets to look like Patrick Roy for the night.
If Don Waddell wants to send a real message to this team, he should bench Marian Hossa for the next game. As a fan, I expect to hear some real anger from DW over the garbage effort put forth by the Thrashers tonight.
By Sage of Bluesland
October 25, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this
Our bumbling Donny has done a fine job of setting this franchise back before it ever really got going…
Should be a lesson in what bad leadership and bad decision-making does to an organization…
But the Waddell-sheep will still find excuses for their lovable loser hero…
By LAC
October 25, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this
This was tough to watch…
Seems there are a number of guys just going through the motions, just tough to watch… Moose did play a strong game, but to get outshot again like we did was just hard to believe…
Kept noticing our small forwards getting pushed off the puck, happens a LOT !
We will see what happens next, this is NOT pretty !
By Bob
October 25, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this
that was ugly down with 3 1/2 minutes to go, and for 2 minutes, again!, they can’t get the puck out of their own zone. Brutal, just brutal hockey.
By stendec
October 25, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this
Hi Craig. I am so disgusted right now. Never thought I would witness Thrashers mail one in. I DID TONIGHT. Total non-effort. Went through skating motions for three periods. That was it. What has happened to our division champions? The ones who played with such fire and pride? Oh yes, did not cast vote in offensive poll. There was no NONE OF THE ABOVE section. Truly sad.
By Brendan
October 26, 2007 1:19 AM | Link to this
I’ve been teased unmercifully at the office. “Brendan, what happened to your Thrashers?” “Face it, Brendan. The Thrashers suck.” The New Yorkers cry, “It’s Ohhh-vah. Bettah trade Hoh-ssah while ya can.”
There’s more than 70 games left. Nothing’s over in October. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? (The Germans?) Stay with me. Here’s what I’ve seen so far that troubles me.
We’re 10 games in … and we’ve been shutout three (3) times. That’s 30-percent, folks. Seven of those ten games (7/10) Atlanta has scored two or fewer goals. When you fail to score three (3) goals in 70% of your games, how successful can you really expect to be? Which prompted Wes Goldstein to “opine” thusly The Thrashers just don’t have the firepower. Goldstein then “power ranked” the Thrashers 30th in the league. Then added a “trade rumor” with Toronto for Thomas Kaberle. Remember, Goldstein is the guy who proclaimed the Thrashers, in preseason, to be his “most disappointing team” for the upcoming season.
Okay, enough of the gloom and doom. But what I also find problematic is … through 10 games, we haven’t been able to string two (2) wins together. We had that chance tonight. Don Waddell slips below .500 once again, with a 6-7-1 record behind the bench.
Okay, so what do we have to do to salvage the season? Remember when we went 13-2-3 during a stretch of the 2005-06 season, after a bad start? Yeah, well … that’s what has to happen. We absolutely have to have a stretch of 20 games where we win 14 and pick up some OTL’s and SOL’s. Until that happens, expect more talks of trading Hossa and trying to ditch players like Klee, Slater, Larsen, Havelid, and even McCarthy now. Teams in the hunt, (and everyone’s still in the hunt, even in November,) won’t be looking to give up bodies off their roster that we’d actually want. To sell off liabilities probably translates into 3rd and 4th round picks. Maybe worse than that. And well, we still have to fill out a roster ourselves.
There’s so much more. We could talk about special teams failures. The shots on goal we’re surrendering. The goals against totals. The lack of offensive production. The disappearing act of way too many prominent Thrashers. The Captain has to step up. Holik is supposed to lead by example. Kozlov is supposed to provide senior leadership. Hossa is expected to carry the team. Zhitnik is supposed to be our most dominant defender. Kari Lehtonen is supposed to be healthy, not continually saddled with groin problems. All these things have to change. And if they don’t … then we just may be looking at the draft lottery and a change in management.
By Tony C.
October 26, 2007 2:34 AM | Link to this
UGH!!!!
By Tony C.
October 26, 2007 2:41 AM | Link to this
UGH!!!!
By luckydog
October 26, 2007 5:36 AM | Link to this
Didn’t see the whole game, but can someone tell me: Did we ever repay them for the high hard one to Hossa in the first period??? I’m getting sick of seeing our top-liners flattened and it takes a whole period or two for us to do anything.
In the part I saw we were total softies in general. Some of these new guys and kids need to prove their mettle physically out there…or for gods sake give Thorburn and Boulton some ice time.
One of the biggest differences between this year and last year is the lack of physicality, especially on D. At this time last year Vishnevski (remember him?) was lining someone up every 5 minutes….
By russian
October 26, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this
I am not worry about Thrasher until they got new GM and Coach. They need to be Bigger and Stronger. This is a AA Junior Hockey team by Size and play effort. I am worry about CRAIG? Where is he? Anybody knows?
By ThrasherNY
October 26, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this
The downfall of the current roster is our special teams efforts. We are 29th in the league on the PK and PP. Those are the stats that must be improved. Hartley was not doing anything constructive to improve those failing parts of our game and that is why he is gone. It is also why we were ripped a new one by the Rangers. Unfortunately Waddell doesnt have the answers either. He is not running the practices ie not implementing a new look and is not a coach so I doubt his game time efforts are enough to turn around a wayward ship. Consequently we will continue to lose. You simply cannot play 500+ hockey when you are last in the league in special teams. That is a hockey truth.
By ranallo10
October 26, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this
Hokie — good point, though he was aged I would consider Bondra in lines with Holik (a faded star and an ever so close star).
Brian — I think Tom’s post about Free Agents is full of good points. I’m not saying this club has had the ability to get big name players…I’m saying that perhaps until a big name free agent plays here, ATL will not lose the mantra of being a city players don’t want to play in.
luckydog — Boulton got a little chippy with TooToo after his goal (and what appeared to be subsequent gloating…the douche). However, nobody “paid back” Suter for his heavy hit on Hossa (or paid back Radulov for his Andy Sutton impression on Little). Hossa at one point upped his tempo, hit a few people, and looked possessed, but once Ellis stopped a shot he went back to being Hesitant Hossa.
By Bob
October 26, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this
As a fan, I expect to hear some real anger from DW over the garbage effort put forth by the Thrashers tonight.
Yeah, those were some scathing remarks from an upset Coach/GM today, eh? What did he say, something like “that’s ok, we did good things, we’ll score some goals most nights”. This guy is so clueless.
I am not worry about Thrasher until they got new GM and Coach. They need to be Bigger and Stronger. This is a AA Junior Hockey team by Size and play effort. I am worry about CRAIG? Where is he?
Yep, it’s all moot until we get a new GM, just let the season play out and hope the Spirit boys can get it right picking our next GM.
Craig said he was getting a couple days vacation in, he’ll probably be back Monday.
By russian
October 26, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this
to Bob Thanks Bob to update.
By Brian
October 26, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this
ranollo - under that thought process, you might as well say that we are a city unable to defend itself from asteroids. Now we never had to defend ourself from asteroids, but until we do we will always have that mantra against us…
On that same analogy, we have never gone after a big name free agent due to the fact that we always had a couple superstars already. Now since we never went after one, people can say we can’t land one. Now we will always have that mantra until we do and succeed…
By ranallo10
October 26, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
Brian — Are you saying this city really is able to defend itself from asteroids?? Maybe the point is that you think the team hasn’t had a chance to prove itself, where as I’m saying that lack of proof is a justification to a theory.
I’m playing Devil’s advocate here because I agree that this city has yet to be in a position to prove it can attract the best talent in the league. However, how many players have left Atlanta and said “I really liked playing in that city, it’s a shame I couldn’t stay”?? Maybe that proves the ownership group is a mess, or Waddell is incompetent, or maybe they just didn’t like playing here. Who knows?
By Brian
October 26, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
Ranollo - you said it perfectly for me: “where as I’m saying that lack of proof is a justification to a theory.”
EXACTLY! So if you can’t offer proof that you weren’t on flight 93 (I can’t remember the numbers) does that mean we have a valid theory that you blew up the World Trade Center? Of course not. Lack of proof is not proof itself.
By Brian
October 26, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
ranollo - I meant to say that what you said (where as I’m saying that lack of proof is a justification to a theory) is what I disagree with, you stated perfectly what is wrong, not what is right…
By MikeP
October 26, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this
I wrote that article on Rich Winter that was linked to, and while I agree that he’s quite likely a jerk (at least professionally) - after all, I wrote the article - I’m not sure that I couldn’t dig up similar dirt on any other agent you care to name.
Winter’s specialty seems to be playing both ends against the middle with Euros, not necessarily just rooking teams for maximum value. Any agent should be willing and able to do that, after all.
Thanks for the link though. :-)