Thrashers

By ranallo10

September 4, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

“One game a week? Is the N in NFL for Nancy?”

I liked that ad…

Looking forward to hearing your opinion of the players in Traverse City. Is there a website highlighting any of the details for this prospect tournament? It’d be nice to see what prospects from the respective teams the Thrashers will be facing, schedules, etc.

By GSU-Lee

September 4, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

CC, Where do the rookies on the offensive side, like Little and Sterling, stand right now? They got a shot?

By ranallo10

September 4, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

Roenick signed with San Jose for one year, $500k.

…

wow

By Tony C.

September 4, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Sweet Potatoes! JR signs an NHL contract???? !increible!

So I ask this of those who are more knowledgeable about hockey than I:

seeing as how Coach prefers pairs of forwards over solid lines of forwards….how do you run that o-fence? Are we going to continue to see overloaded sides along the wall?

It seems to me that we have more than one guy that can put the puck on the net with some authority from the blueline area? Why is #17 the only one who really winds it up? I’d like to see a little bit more basic o-fence…bomb it from up top and let some of the bigger guys finish the work up front…oh wait I remember-we only have like one or two guys who work up front…Hopefully that’s where DW’s FA signings this summer will come into play.

I hope.

GO BLUE !!!

By Brendan

September 4, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

Ranallo, my guess is the Roenick signing has something to do with the indefinite suspension of Mark Bell, by the NHL. For $500,000, why not take a chance on him? The Sharks can always buy him out for two-thirds (2/3) value, if Roenick falters. And for Roenick, this is a chance to play for a Stanley Cup contender.

I’m looking forward to Craig’s reports on blueline prospects from Traverse City. But a couple of other things piqued my curiosity in his blog. Especially the the phrase, “once the season starts, conversations with Lehtonen’s agent will turn towards a new deal.” Uhh, that threw me for a loop. Since when does Don Waddell negotiate during the season? If he wanted to lock up Lehtonen, nothing prevents him from doing that right now, if he so desired.

I think that’s a bad idea, though. Lehtonen has played exactly one (1) healthy season for Atlanta, since he was drafted in 2002. Another thing to ponder is, “If Kevin Lowe came in with a “Vanek-like offer,” (7-years/$50 million,) is Waddell seriously advancing the notion that he and the Atlanta Spirit Group would A-U-T-O-M-A-T-I-C-A-L-L-Y match it?

The answer is “no.” Waddell is engaging in politics. He very well may want Kari’s agent to come to the table for contract negotiations. But to announce something a kin to, “Sky’s the limit for Lehtonen’s contract” is flagrant false advertising on his part. And, it kinda sets himself up to be snookered like a teenager during his first visit to an automechanic’s shop.

But relax, Waddell’s posturing is just a “smokescreen” to bluff other GM’s out there not to think about Shopping at “Chez Thrashers.” Will it work? No. Here’s why.

The sky is NOT the limit for Lehtonen. Waddell has got to at least “try” to re-sign Hossa. And if he DOES re-sign Hossa, he’s also got to fill out the rest of the 2008-09 roster. He can’t do that while matching ridiculous offers from desperate GM’s, just trying to save their jobs. If he gets a “Vanek-like” offer for Lehtonen, he ought to examine the potential of the four (4) 1st round draft picks as compensation for his (Lehtonen’s)loss. Especially since he’s got young (netminder) Ondrej Pavelec in the fold. Without Lehtonen’s hypothetical high-dollar contract on the books, Waddell would still have plenty of money for a “reasonably priced” free agent goaltender to be insurance for Pavelec. He could even re-sign Moose for $1 million, to be insurance for both Pavelec and the FREE AGENT goaltender, hypothetically. Again, to avoid any confusion, we’re talking about the 2008-09 season, not this upcoming season. Lehtonen is under contract this season. And is RESTRICTED for next season.

Look, to be clear, I see Kari as the Thrashers franchise goalie. But if Pavelec is better, and costs less, and someone wants to offer the “moon and stars” for Lehtonen, I think our GM ought to think long and hard about whether to match over-inflated contracts. And folks, that’s what ALWAYS happens when an RFA offer sheet occurs. It’s got to be OVER-INFLATED, otherwise, the rights-holding team just matches it. It becomes an exercise in futility.

If thaaaaat’s what Don Waddell was hinting at, that’s wishful thinking on his part. No other GM is going to come in with an RFA offer sheet that is a “reasonable contract.” Why not? Because Don will simply match a “reasonable” offer sheet. If there is to be an RFA offer sheet for Lehtonen, it will be “outrageous, egregious and ridiculous.” (Thank you, Jackie Chiles. You may be seated.) Just like Dustin Penner’s contract was ridiculous. And, to an extent, Thomas Vanek’s contract was ridiculous.

In the end, my friends, Don will have to pay Kari Lehtonen his “fair market value.” And that’s fine. A player should get what he’s worth. But if Kari affixes his name to an RFA offer sheet, that reflects an absurdly inflated contract, he’s done with the Atlanta Thrashers organization, in my opinion. Don will take the picks, unless he wants to saddle the organization with another “Holik-like” contract.

By ranallo10

September 4, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

Mark Bell is on Toronto, was swapped with Toskala earlier this summer. Just thought I’d mention that, now I’ll get back to reading your novel.

By TB

September 4, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

I agree with Brendan.

By Logan

September 4, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

What does the suspension of a Toronto player (Bell) have to do with San Jose signing Roenick?

By Rone

September 4, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

Where can I get a look at the new home jersey?

By ranallo10

September 4, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

Brendan — Good synopsis, but here’s where I see differently than you on this matter…

Compare Lehtonen to his contemporaries…the highest contract of a comparable goalie (read: Tier 1.5 or 2) RFA/UFA goaltender this offseason was for Henrik Lundqvist, a $4.25M one year extension. Remember, this was an offseason marked by overspending and RFA offer sheets.

Lundqvist is more established than Lehtonen, has proven himself in the playoffs, and has led a team with little defensive depth and some offensive power to the second round of the playoffs. Lundqvist was the MVP of the Rangers last season. He got a substantial raise, but the other comparable tenders signed this offseason paled in comparison.

For instance, Ray Emery made the Stanley Cup finals, and in turn received 3 years at $3.167M annually…as a RFA.

J.S. Giguere won a Stanley Cup, and far and away won in the free agency period with his $6M annual contract over 4 years. He’s won a Conn Smythe, and now a Stanley Cup. There was no doubting he’d be the highest paid RFA/UFA of the goaltenders. However, he was the only Tier 1 goaltender on the market.

Lehtonen, in all reality, does not compare to two of those three goaltenders AT THIS POINT. Barring a stellar season and a few playoff wins, Lehtonen should not see more money than Ray Emery, much less Henrik Lundqvist. In Lehtonen’s defense, I think he’s far superior to Emery in terms of skill, and SOMEWHAT comparable to Giguere and Lundqvist in talent. However, Lehtonen has no ground to walk on in regards to demanding a substantial raise.

Ray Emery and Henrik Lundqvist were two perfect examples of what Lehtonen and his agent will be facing in 2008. These two keepers were RFAs, coming off career years, but were not offered substantial sheets from other GMs to convince them to sign before their re-negotiations were complete.

If Lundqvist or Emery did not get offered “the moon and the stars”, I highly doubt Lehtonen will be.

My prediction is that if he has another season like 06/07, he’ll get a max of $3.7M annually (multi years), or $4M for a one year extension.

All this fear about overinflated offers for RFAs is based on TWO occurances of high scoring young forwards, whose respective teams were facing salary constraints and a substantial roster turnover of impact players (Buffalo and Anaheim).

The comparisons don’t fit. Atlanta is not cash strapped next season, and Lehtonen doesn’t put up 40 goals and 80 points on the board every season. Atlanta also does not have a PROVEN NHL TALENT to take over the number one goalie position (Pavelec could be ready, but would you want him thrust into that position without testing the waters??). Lehtonen’s a 23 (going to be 24) year old goalie with one season (possibly two) under his belt as a true number one goalie. He’s got a history of groin and ankle injuries, and he’s got past problems showing up to camp out of shape.

Unless the Thrashers make round two of the playoffs, I think Lehtonen will remain “substantially overinflated contract” free.

As for Waddell’s reaction…many thought Buffalo was stupid for matching Vanek’s offer. But as Regier said, you can’t put a price on young proven talent. You may think that if the offer exceeds $4M it’s worth losing Lehtonen, but, it’s a tough decision for anyone.

I don’t feel that you can paint Waddell a loser for having to make the [matched offer sheet] decision. You can only paint him one when he whines to the media about it (cough BRIAN BURKE cough).

By GaVaHokie

September 4, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

Just an FYI… I stopped reading Brendan’s post after Mark Bell on San Jose… where have you been?

Ranallo, sorry too long as well.

By Hockeyfan

September 4, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

I think I have a better chance of finding a link to the Thrashers on the mainpage of AJC.com than I do of reading some of these lengthy posts…

By ranallo10

September 4, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

But Hokie, you’re missing plenty of good points and counterpoints!! P-p-p-plllleeease??

By Brendan

September 4, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

Alriiiight. Bell belongs to the Leafs. I forgot. It’s the thrust that’s the thrust of the problem… sheesh.

I’m sure San Jose still had some “needs” to fill, post Bell-trade, and they think they can do with Roenick. Well, good for Roenick. At least the Sharks didn’t overpay.

By Brendan

September 4, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

Alriiiight. Bell belongs to the Leafs. I forgot about the trade. Crucify some more, why don’tcha? If that’s the thrust of the problem… sheesh.

I’m sure San Jose still had some “needs” to fill, post Bell-trade, and they think they can do with Roenick. Well, good for Roenick. At least the Sharks didn’t overpay for him.

By Brendan

September 4, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

Alriiiight. Bell belongs to the Leafs. I forgot about the trade. Crucify some more, why don’tcha? If that’s the thrust of the problem… sheesh.

I’m sure San Jose still had some “needs” to fill, post Bell-trade, and they think they can do with Roenick. Well, good for Roenick. At least the Sharks didn’t overpay for him.

By Brendan

September 4, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this

Ranallo, I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing on. I think if Waddell is forced to match a $7 million per year offer sheet on Lehtonen, that “adios, bye Kari” ought to be the response. But yes, you’re right that Pavelec is untested at the NHL level. But that’s where I still think a suitably priced free agent goaltender can be found to fill the Lehtonen void.

If our posts are at an impasse, perhaps it’s over this. How much Don will have to pay Kari. My take is, “he’ll have to pay him fair market value.” How can I argue with that? He’s worth what he’s worth, depending on this season’s numbers. Waddell has shown, lately, that he can re-sign players without overpaying for them (McCarthy, Boulton, Slater, Exelby, Dupuis, etc.).

By Brendan

September 4, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this

Sorry for the double posting. I don’t know why it does that sometimes.

By ranallo10

September 4, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this

My point is that based on the market set this offseason for RFA goaltenders of equal ability, greater ability, and lesser ability, Lehtonen’s market value will not likely hit the exorbitant $6~$7M range.

Basically, I don’t believe the goalie market at this point is something we need to fear in regards to losing Lehtonen as a RFA next offseason.

Fair market value, based on what the current market stipulates, is nowhere near $7M for Lehtonen. As such, I feel this is a non-issue.

By DWTOO

September 4, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

C’mon - Give Brendan a break. Afterall, he makes few mistakes, actually thinks before he types, and posts regularly. His opinions are generally interesting.

Without him this blog would be just a bunch of two liners and backbiting(where has our old pal P&S been).

Ranallo 10 - your posts are good too. Leep it up.

By David Lee

September 4, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

Our Defense misses Andy Sutton already.*

By Brendan

September 5, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

Ranallo, I agree with your assessment. I meant to post earlier that your comments, “My prediction is that if he has another season like 06/07, he’ll get a max of $3.7M annually (multi years), or $4M for a one year extension,” are right on the money. So, if some other team actually did offer something in the high 6+ million dollar range, or beyond, that they’re probably screwing themselves in the process.

Well, c’mon now. Anytime a team substantially overpays for a player they are limiting their ability to field a more competitive roster. And there it is. Their only defense will be speculative: “Kari, we feel, will be worth $10 million down the road. So, $7.1 million seemed like a ‘steal’ to us.” Or words to that effect. It’s rationalizing a mistake.

But Ranallo, here’s where the two of us will get “hate mail” from the dissenting bloggers. They’ll argue, “but you still lost Lehtonen (to a ridiculously inflated RFA offer sheet), the supposed “cornerstone” of the franchise for the coming years. Explain that one to the season ticket holders, who bought ‘hook, line, and sinker,’ that Lehtonen was the second coming of Patrick Roy and would deliver year after year of playoff berths. They’ll be incensed at Lehtonen’s departure from the organization, despite how it happened, and will claim, “it surely could have been prevented by locking him up early,” and demand to know how the Thrashers can replace a “Patrick Roy” in net. Since Patrick Roys don’t grow on trees. Somewhere, a man named Yusell is screaming, “Oy gavult.”

Keep in mind, that’s not my opinion of Kari Lehtonen. For the record, I like Kari. But a virtual “lock” for the Hall of Fame (Roy, Brodeur) he is not. Not yet, anyway. And I’d support a GM who refused to overpay, via some obscene RFA offer sheet, to retain him. Kari, in my opinion, is a piece of the puzzle for which a suitable replacement can be found. I don’t have some UFA netminder in mind for next Summer as I write this. I’m talking, “conceptually.” Some $3.7 million to $4.25 million netminder will be out there, on the open market, for the taking, hypothetically. And there’s still young Pavelec, as we know.

But I do agree with you, Ranallo, that I don’t think an RFA offer sheet is coming for Lehtonen. But if it does, take the picks from the fools offering the $7+ million for God knows how many years. Take the money that would have been “earmarked” for Lehtonen and get a goalie from Free Agency. Or trade for one, if that makes more sense, depending on what the other team wants in exchange.

Ranallo, you and I are not far apart at all on this issue. Or “non-issue,” as you put it. I just found it “puzzling” that Don Waddell would appear so carefree regarding the dollar value of Kari’s next contract. Remember, in the Summer of 2006, Kari’s agent wanted $5 million (!!) for his client. DW signed him for what?, $2 million in cap hit on a two-year deal. I’m sure Kari’s agent wasn’t thrilled by that move and hopes to recoup some of the what he considers to be $3 million in lost wages for his client. For Waddell to say, “we’ve got plennnnty of cap room for Kari” just sort of opens the door for a holdout. Which is Kari’s right, after all, when he reaches restricted free agency. He’ll want as much as the market will bear.

Ohhh allriiight. What Waddell actually said was this, “All I have to do is say yes,” Waddell said. “We have lots of room under the cap.”

By Brendan

September 5, 2007 12:20 AM | Link to this

DWTOO, thank you. I appreciate that. (I bet Ranallo does, as well.) Ya know, every picture I ever see of Mark Bell, he’s wearing a San Jose Sharks jersey. Subliminally, that took its toll on me. And he may or may not have committed this infraction while still being a member of the Sharks. It’s not “priority #1” for me. Truthfully, I haven’t committed the rosters of every single NHL team to memory, focusing particularly on the Western Conference teams. :)

But be careful, DWTOO, supporting me can make you “personna non gratta” by association. For if I were “bound and gagged” in the backseat, and someone pushed me out of a moving car, into the middle of some Atlanta intersection, there ARE certain bloggers who would, with Policeman in tow, have me ARRESTED for jaywalking.

By SQUAD

September 5, 2007 4:28 AM | Link to this

How do you feel that the defence misses Sutton already? Read other web sites. The Isles have brought in Berard on a try out basis and are rumored to be looking to complete a trade for a defenceman. Other articles indicate that Sutton isn’t the answer for the Isles defence. Last year with the Thrashers I found Sutton to be slow, took bad penalties,performed his biggest checks on those players that wouldn’t or couldn’t retaliate (i.e. smaller players) and screened our goaltenders instead of clearing the goal crease. I feel that our defence is better off without Sutton and he won’t be missed. By mid-season the Isles’ fans will be painfully aware of the shortcomings of Sutton and wish he wasn’t signed.

By thrashfan

September 5, 2007 6:08 AM | Link to this

Is it just me or does re-signing Marian Hossa seem less and less probable as each day passes. If Waddell doesn’t get Hossa to sign before the season starts, we have less than a 10% chance of keeping him. And its going to be a damn shame when we lose him.

By Midfield

September 5, 2007 8:04 AM | Link to this

I believe that Hossa’s status depends much more from what happens in October through March-April than from what happens or does not happen in September.

By Hip Czech

September 5, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

Warning, I am attempting to try this link thing again…here is an article on CBS listing the top 10 offseason stories (or something like that):

top 10 offseason list

Check out number 9. Is the whole ownership issue in regards to a Hossa deal that thing about not being able to sign any player for more than 4 years?

Fine, sign Hossa for 4 years. The Thrashers are going to have a lot of cap room next offseason, no reason to go cheap on re-signing Hossa.

By Brendan

September 5, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Hip Czech, thank you for that link. Wes is always an entertaining read. I’m not quite sure the RFA offer sheet is going to be staple of things to come. It’s probably just the modus operandi of a desperate GM, just trying to salvage his job. I suppose one could theoretically argue that every year, “some GM” will be in that boat. Shrugs. Yeah, but just because a GM lost one job doesn’t mean he wants to disqualify himself from another down the road. That “unwritten rule” exists for a reason. Sometimes, it’s good to have “friends in the business.” Just ask Mike Keenan, who got hired by his “friend” in Calgary, Darryl Sutter, amid of a myriad of furrowed broughs.

By Hip Czech

September 5, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

What if Kevin Lowe didn’t go so over the top with his offers? What if he offered a reasonable offer to Vanek and Penner?

Is (was) the ‘unwritten’ rule not to make ANY offers, or just not to cause salary inflation?

If it’s allowed by the rules why not take advantage of it? I think Lowe made asinine offers, but if the offers were in line for the current salary structure why not make offer sheets? Is this the first time it was EVER done?

I would have loved for the Thrashers to make a reasonable offer to Parise for example. If some other team makes a reasonable offer to Lehtonen next summer so be it. That’s how it is geared to work under the rules.

I too am wondering about Waddell’s comment - “In fact, he’s (Waddell’s) hoping somebody does. That would mean a contract would be done and all he’d have to do is approve it.”

Yeah, if it is a reasonable offer, sure.

That’s what Kevin Lowe has done I guess, would anyone make reasonable offers now or is the new rule to ‘Lowe-ball’ offers?

By Brendan

September 5, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

Hip Czech, you bring up a very good point. I would think the “unwritten rule” exists with an accompanying deterrent. That is, “what comes around, goes around.” In other words, “if you steal one of my players, I can steal one of yours, if not now, then down the road. And you know what they say about ‘paybacks.’”

Offer sheets have been done prior to this year. I seem to recall Bobby Clarke making one to some 10-goal a year type player on Vancouver, which the Canucks angrily matched. Again, the act of a desperate GM, just trying to hold onto his job. Which he didn’t.

“Reasonable” offer sheets are something close to pointless. In most cases, a reasonable offer sheet would be matched by the rights-holding team, proving to be an exercise in futility. Where it can effective is in a situation where a team is bumped up against its cap. Then a reasonable offer may not be able to be matched. But, at this point I want to reiterate that teams can be over their caps as long as they get UNDER them by opening Night. So, let’s just say New York or New Jersey were at their limit, and Waddell came in with a reasonable offer for an RFA player. The Devils or Rangers could match it, then be forced to trade someone else away to get under the cap. Hypothetically.

What I think Brian Burke (GM, Anaheim Ducks) was adamant about was “artificially inflated salaries.” This affects everyone’s market. Dustin Penner may NEVER be worth $4.25 million, or whatever his contract was. Then again, he might, in time, be worth it. But it’s an artificial salary. Artificial salaries hurt everyone. Agents then point to Penner as the “new standard” for payscale.

Now, I hardly think GM’s should acquisce to that. But if they, collectively, met to set price standards, many would scream, “That’s collusion! And it’s illegal.”

By Brendan

September 5, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

Jay Bouwmeester, #3 overall pick, 2002, loses license for driving while impaired

You’ll recall, defenseman Jay Bouwmeester was an “option” for the Thrashers, who picked 2nd overall, in 2002 (Lehtonen).

By Matt H

September 5, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

Dear Brendan and Ranallo, I hate you both.

(there’s your “hate mail”, guys)

Regards,

Matt H

By Brendan

September 5, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this

C’mon Matt H., chime in!

By Tony C.

September 5, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

it would be collusion! However don’t you just know at the GM meetings for every professional sport that the GM’s will have a discussion that is right on the line of collusion…don’t tell me that MLB GM’s have never had a discussion regarding one Scott Boras! I think that there the price structure created this summer is indeed artificially high…but I also think that there is every chance that the (possible) backlash next summer could result in an equally unfair payscale.

Is Hoss worth $8M/yr.? I don’t know, but the current payscale says he is worth at least that much…just think about it.

GO BLUE !!!

By GaVaHokie

September 5, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Alright, there’s something finally interesting to talk about… Jay Bouwmeester vs. Lehtonen.

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2002e.html

We made the right choice out of the two, in fact, I’d rather have Ryan Whitney then Bouwmeester. In hindsight, the Thrashers should have traded both first round picks to swap places with Columbus and gotten Rick Nash.

By talkingthrash

September 5, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

“The only thing our powerplay quarterbacks kill are goalies.”

By Bob

September 5, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

First, would Enstrom have come over from Sweden if he knew there would be so much competition? And second, are those veteran signings a reflection that maybe the team isn’t as confident in the young D-men as they publicly appear?

Gee, ya think? It’s been obvious to me that this nonsense about the Enstrom midget making this club and youth movement was not going to happen when Waddell went and signed all these dmen.

I look forward to your first hand view of these young dmen, Craig.

So, Hossa not going to be signed to an extension, is anyone really suprised by that?

You guys are arguing over what Waddell says about Lehtonen? Why do you even pay attention to what he says, he’s the quintessential double talker, saying one thing to the media for consumption by gullible fans or to throw fans a bone. Just watch what he does, that speaks volumes. Of course he’ll try to re-sign Lehtonen early, I told you goofs that as soon as Lowe started throwing around those RFA offer sheets. All the smart GMs re-signed their key RFA’s early, Waddell will do it also.

By Brendan

September 5, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

Tony C., that’s a good point. The market is what it is. And when next Summer rolls around, once again, the market will set the value. Of course, we don’t know that the cap isn’t already articially inflated, as an earlier Wes Goldstein (www.cbs.sportline.com/nhl) article suggested. It was based off of “projected sales.” So, in theory, depending how the finances go, the cap could shrink next year.

Well, it could. And if that happened, would Hossa still be worth $8 million? Depends on who you ask. And, of course, what the cap actually is. The maximum salary allowed for one (1) player is 20% of the cap. Currently, a player can make as much as $10.06 million. Hossa is a special case. His stats are incredible, for the regular season. He is very consistent. Year in and year out.

While it’s certainly true that Hossa can play for anyone who offers him a contract in the 2008-09 season, he’ll never quite have the “command” that he has here in Atlanta. He’s the #1 guy. (No offense to Kovalchuk or Kovalchuk Nation.) He’s our “most complete” player. He’ll get all the ice time he could evvvver want. He can even be made Captain, if he wanted it. Plus, he’ll get whatever he salary wants, essentially. (Don’s not going to nickel and dime him.) Atlanta has cap room. Especially for him. But does Hossa “like it” here? I don’t know. Maybe. I hear, via that Czech newspaper article, that Hossa wants his next contract to be a 4-year deal. Well, a lot can happen in four (4) years. For instance, a team could finish DEAD LAST, then win the Cup, like the Lightning and Hurricanes did, in the space of three (3) years. So, that’s “something” for Hossa to think about, as he allegedly ponders his “Stanley Cup Championship” aspirations. Other teams have to have cap room for him. I’m sure Hossa would like to “play,” as well. There’s no fighting for ice time in Atlanta, for Hossa. In a city that chants his name. Where, more than likely, he’d get paid like the Superstar that he is.

So, let me ask you. If you were Hossa, would you walk away from Atlanta? Knowing that you’d be paid, essentially, WHATEVER you wanted, could be made Captain, would get 25 or more minutes a game, play on the power play to pad your stats, and be the leader of a team? With a coach and GM who ADORE you.

Well, how many of you said, “Yes, I’d walk away from that?” I’m just curious.

By ranallo10

September 5, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

A few diamonds thus far:

Petr Prucha - Round 8, pick 240
Ian White - Round 6, pick 191
Paul Ranger - Round 6, pick 183
Matthew Lombardi - Round 3, pick 90

By Matt H

September 5, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

“But Ranallo, here’s where the two of us will get “hate mail” from the dissenting bloggers…” Happy to help, fellas ;)

Seriously though, goaltenders are so mercurial. It’s like trying to bottle lightning. How many season in/season out goalies are there in the NHL? Kiprusoff, Luongo, Brodeur, Miller maybe the tandems out in San Jose and Anaheim, I think Turco, after this season, can be put into that category.

Who else would you pay a “Loweball” salary to?

I wouldn’t be a shred surprised if Johan Hedberg steps up and leads the Thrashers to a cup this season. Honest.

Cos s** like that happens all the time with goaltenders. Look at Cam Ward.

Mike Vernon had a really rough start to his NHL career, and ended up winning two cups with two different teams. Jim Carey won the Vezina and a year later he couldn’t get arrested if he streaked Times Square.

I like Lehts a lot. I think he’ll make it as a starter in the NHL, if not here (and then only due to heavy expectations) then somewhere.

[and since sarcasm is oft lost in message boards, for the record, I hate neither Ranallo nor Brendan. P&S is the only one I could really do without.]

By ranallo10

September 5, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

Matt H — Jose Theodore is another good name to prove your point. Prior to this past season, many would say Giguere as well.

I agree that goaltenders are the hardest position to properly gauge a career for. Andrew Raycroft and Cam Ward are good examples of how exposure to the NHL clubs can lead to a plateau in performance. Giving teams enough time (usually a season) to scout their abilities and flaws, Ward and Raycroft showed more earthly performances their second years in the league as starters. So, you might have a good young talented tender, but once NHL talent learns his tendencies he can be easily converted back to his above average tending abilities.

Beyond the big three (Kiprusoff, Luongo, Brodeur), not many goaltenders have shown sustained success at such a high level. Turco maybe, but he’s streaky (Emery reminds me of a younger Turco, anybody else see that??). Miller has benefited from a stellar defensive team, but clearly has talent. Who else?? Nabokov? Hasek?

Anyways, it’s nice to talk about hockey in September, but October isn’t coming quickly enough.

Brendan — I’m originally from LA, so if the Kings or Sharks offered the exact same salary, it’d be quite tough for me to pass up on “going home”. I love the Thrashers as a fan, but as a player you go where you feel your career goals will best be achieved. Some players pick based on trophies, based on individual accomplishments, or based on what their wife wants. I personally would pick based on the best offer from the team I was most comfortable with, despite if they were winning or losing. Having lived here for so long, and having relatively little roots in LA still, I’d opt to stay in Atlanta personally.

Bob, you’re right as usual. Keep up the good work, you’re an inspiration to us all.

By Brendan

September 5, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

GaVaHokie, I’ve beaten this 2002 Draft “horse” to the point where I got threatening letters from P.E.T.A. But I’d be willing to go through it one more time. And believe it or not, I’d come to the same conclusion as you did. Namely, that we should have taken Rick Nash.

(Well, now I’ve gone and done it. Here comes Kari backlash hate mail!)

All I ask … all I ever ask … is that you “consider” some alternatives, with an open mind. Okayyyy, yes. We can’t go back and change it. GOT IT!! Really. So don’t go there.

Turning the back clock now, (enter dream-like squiggles to your computer monitors) it was June of 2002. It may have been raining. But I’m not too sure. What I am sure of, is this: Atlanta owned the 2nd overall pick. The top prospect, per Hockey News, the Sporting News, and USAToday, among others, was defenseman Jay Bouwmeester.

Stop. Remember the lineup from 2001-02? Yeah, we needed EVERYTHING!! And that’s not hyperbole. Including a goalie? Yeah, including a goalie. But I digress. Heatley and Kovalchuk were already in the fold. Imagine the potency of adding power forward Rick Nash to that lineup!! (Drooling, in Homer Simpson-like fashion.)

So, what went “wrong?” “Wrong” is not the right word. I beg you to keep an open mind, here. Florida owned the top spot. The Panthers’ GM, Rick Dudley, was a “personal friend” of GM Don Waddell. They knew each and worked together in the past. Dudley was “cooking a deal” with the Columbus Jackets’ GM, Doug McLean. McLean, who owned the 3rd overall pick, had worked out a deal with Dudley whereby the two would swap draft positions, and McLean would give the 30th overall pick, which it acquired from Buffalo in a prior trade, which previously belonged to the Detroit Red Wings. The Wings had given the 30th overall pick, 2002, to Buffalo for Dominek Hasek and Slava Kozlov. Buffalo traded that 30th overall pick to Columbus.

Okay, but there was one obstacle for Panthers GM Rick Dudley. He wanted Bouwmeester. Problem was, he didn’t own the 2nd overall pick. Atlanta did. So? So Dudley can’t make this deal without Don Waddell’s acquiescence not to select Jay Bouwmeester with that 2nd overall pick. So, Rick says, “Don, buddy ol’ pal o’mine, we want Bouwmeester. What are you going to do with your pick?”

Stop. Isn’t there an “opportunity” here, starring the Thrashers right in the face, to say, “We want Bouwmeester, that’s who we’re taking?” The answer I’m looking for here is “Yes.” Such a statement puts panic, hypothetically, into Dudley’s face and plans. He must now tell Doug McLean that the “deal is off. Atlanta is planning on taking our guy.”

Which then sends Columbus’ GM into coronary thrombosis! McLean must then, FRANTICALLY, scurry over to the Thrashers table to say, “Who are you taking with your 2nd overall pick?”

Isn’t there an “opportunity” here to say, “We’re taking Rick Nash,” since the Panthers are taking Bouwmeester, who is who we really wanted?” The answer, here, is “yes.” This puts Doug McLean in a bit of pickle. To get Rick Nash, he would now have to make a “deal” with Don. Don could say, “We’ll pass on Nash, iffff you cough up your 1st round pick next year. (Which turned out to be 4th overall, posh-enough to have landed a player like Thomas Vanek, in 2003.) If that’s too hefty of an offer, we’ll just take Nash. We need EVERYTHING, not just defense.”

Doug McLean now has to “think it over.” How badly does he really want Nash? If badly enough, he agrees to the 1st round pick for next season. If not, Don mozies up to the podium and selects the player from Red Deer named Rick Nash, to join a line with Heatley and Kovalchuk, if Atlanta so desired.

Instead, Don accepted his “friend’s” proposal to take the 30th overall pick that Florida had acquired from Columbus, through Buffalo, via Detroit. That player is Jim Slater.

By the way, that day, Draft Day 2002, Atlanta also acquired Slava Kozlov, via trade. But that acquisition had nothing to do with the 30th overall pick, or the deal that sent Kozlov to Buffalo from Detroit. They were separate deals.

By B. Thenet

September 6, 2007 8:09 AM | Link to this

The only thing that concerns me about all the veteran D’s in camp with the rookies, is that we all know if given the choice between a good rookie and a mediocre vet that Hartley will go with the mediocre vet every time.

Hopefully we can get out of Traverse City with a couple of fired up rookies coming into camp on a roll, and no injuries.

Craig: Please give us an update on how “Tubby” Bourret looks at TC. All the Rangers fans I know assume that now Bourret is with a “real organization” he will cut down on the doughnuts and chinese food diet in the offseason.

By Craig Custance

September 6, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

B. Thenet — Will do on Bourret. I know the Rangers feel like they really got the better end of that deal.

Just a heads up — I’ll be blogging from the games, so if there’s anything you want me to check out, please let me know. The Bourret idea is a great one. Here is my blogging schedule:

Friday, Sept. 7 — Blog from Thrashers-Red Wings game, 7:30 p.m.

Saturday, Sept. 8 — Blog from Thrashers-Rangers game, 3:30 p.m. (and now I know what I’ll be talking about in this one)

Monday, Sept. 10 — Blog from Thrashers-Lightning game, 6:30 p.m.

By Midfield

September 6, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

I just don’t get all this whining about Hartley not giving “good rookies” playing minutes. Obviously, he had no problem riding Kovy or Lehtonen from the get-go. His job is not to develop players. His job is to win games. If you think that we can win more games without Hartley, call for him to resign. But don’t tell him who to play and who not to.

By ranallo10

September 6, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

Seeing that the Lightning are the immediate concern for this franchise, the few players I can see on their roster that I’d like to hear about are:

(G) #70 Karri Ramo
(C) #49 Blair Jones
(LW) #64 Justin Keller

That’s all I’ve got for the Tampa Bay game.

By Matt H

September 6, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Craig The Rangers, they’ve got a Staal brother in the system right? Marc? Be nice to hear about him (if that isn’t what you already had in mind)…

By Hip Czech

September 6, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

At what point do we get into the ‘no contract negotiations during the season’ mode for Waddell? Or, is this the year he breaks the rule for Hossa and Lehtonen? Why should they be different from Savard and Kozlov? That’s the scary part…

I agree about Enstrom. I was not impressed at the prospect camp. He has no size and I really wasn’t impressed with his puck handling skills.

I was listening to the talking heads on XM last night (talking heads on radio? Talking Mics?) and they were talking about the Anaheim D situation if Niedermayer comes back (supposed to be a new conference today). They mentioned that you need 10 defensemen for a Cup team. I guess to handle injuries and what not. Anaheim would definitely be set - Niedermayer, Pronger, Schneider, Beauchemin,O’Donnell, Hnidy, etc. I am sure Anaheim fans are not worried about a ‘youth movement’ and the fact that Anaheim brought in Hnidy to take a spot of some youngster.

The point is, so what if Enstrom/Popovic/personal favorite Grant Lewis aren’t in the top 6 opening night. Apart from maybe some bruised egos what difference does it make? If they really are ready they add important depth and will get their chance at some point.

By Rawhide

September 6, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

Can we drop the puck???? Can we PLEASE just drop the puck????

I can’t wait,…let’s GO, ALREADY!!!

Can we just go sit in Philips,……..feel the cold, frosty air,……imagine we can hear the blades cut through the ice, hear the pucks smack against the stickes????

JUMPIN’-JEEEZUS ON A POGO STICK!!!!

I CAN’T WAIT!!!

Can we just drop the puck already???

By Hip Czech

September 6, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Rawhide, I wish we could…believe me, I am as anxious as you are.

Unfortunately it is only September 6th, not October 5th.

By Tony C.

September 6, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

So umm…tailgate before the game (5Oct.)???

GO BLUE !!!

By Matt H

September 6, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

During the off-season, I like to read hockey books to feed my hockey-deprived mind. It helps, I find, and it’s really interesting to read up on the history of the game.

I’ve already recommended “The Game” by Ken Dryden (you really do have to read it if you haven’t). I just finished “In the Crease” by Hockey Night in Canada’s Dick Irvin, a fascinating look at NHL goaltenders with interviews with everyone from Gump Worsley to Martin Brodeur.

Buy ‘em and read ‘em, and then when some a-hole Leafs fan at Philips says something like “Hey redneck, who holds the NHL record for consecutive games played by a goalie?”, you can tell them who and exactly why that record will never be broken. (Glen Hall, and the advent of the two goalie rotation)

By Hip Czech

September 6, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

Matt H…thanks for those recommendations. If you want to pick them up CHEAP, go here -

Dryden book

Irving book

and here:

By ranallo10

September 6, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

Well said Hip Czech.

By ranallo10

September 6, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Ugh, stupid 5 minute delay…

My “well said” was in regards to your comments about the “youth movement” complaints.

By Hip Czech

September 6, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

Well, far be it for me to tell you all where to go… ;-)

Sorry bout the hanging here there

By Thrasher316J11

September 6, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

Hip Czech: Speaking for myself I think you miss my point when I blog about the missing “youth movement”. I am more than happy to have the best six guys on the ice even if none of them are from our system. That being said i dont like hearing double talk from my GM.

Last season his speech made me believe that we actually had talent in the system ready to play in the NHL. A sign of a healthy franchise. Now his off season moves tell a much different story.

We were one of the oldest teams last season and looking at the roster I cant think we have moved up the list too far. In the “new” nhl speed is essential in drawing penalties and creating offense at even strength. Speed is not normally an attribute of veteran ie ‘old’ players.

While we have not spent that much cash on the blueliners Don has brought in, players brought up from within generally cost less. This is important as we are a cash strapped franchise.

Matt H: Thanks for the book tips.

By stendec

September 6, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

KL is simply not that good a netminder. Perhaps one day he will be. I foresee numerous soft goals and daydreaming ahead. Put down the noose, tar and feathers. I HOPE I am terribly off base. I just do not believe I am. Squa Tront all Thrasher faithful!

By stendec

September 6, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this

KL is simply not that good a netminder. Perhaps one day he will be. I foresee numerous soft goals and daydreaming ahead. Put down the noose, tar and feathers. I HOPE I am terribly off base. I just do not believe I am. Squa Tront all Thrasher faithful!

By Matt H

September 6, 2007 9:07 PM | Link to this

Ah yes, Abe; good call Czech.

I think we’re gonna find out a lot more about Lehts this season than we’ve ever known before…

By Tony C.

September 6, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

Personally I think The Kid can do it. The question is how well he responds to hiBob’s umm “unique” approach to goalie development.

GO BLUE !!!

By Bob

September 7, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this

At what point do we get into the ‘no contract negotiations during the season’ mode for Waddell? Or, is this the year he breaks the rule for Hossa and Lehtonen? Why should they be different from Savard and Kozlov? That’s the scary part…

Totally agree. It’s mind boggling how all the other GMs get it, and Waddell sticks his head in the sand with this inane rule his has about in-season negotiations. Scary, indeed.

I agree about Enstrom. I was not impressed at the prospect camp. He has no size and I really wasn’t impressed with his puck handling skills.

That was more Waddell double talk, as 316 calls it. One look at him and you can see he’s not NHL ready. Beyond that, this “youth movement” nonsense was more double talk the day that Waddell decided to retain Hartley. As was correctly pointed out above, Hartley will choose the vet every time over the rookie.

Lehtonen plays well when mentally rested. He always plays well after a break. Let’s just hope that Hartley has figured this out and finally get Moose and Lehts into a good rotation. That single move, coupled with an improved PP scheme out of Hartley is one of the keys to being a below average club this year, to competing for the playoffs.

By Hip Czech

September 7, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this

Thrasher316J, I can understand that concern. We have heard for a couple years now that the ‘kids’ are just a year away. I too am growing tired of hearing that.

In reality though, how may other teams have had first year players make huge impacts, other than the top 3 pick types (Crosby, Ovechkin, Staal)? This is one game where it seems to be hard for rookies to make an impact, except the superstar talents and possibly goalies (which is why I am torn on offering Lehtonen any long term deal).

At some point we NEED some input from the farm system, no doubt. Besides XLB what other non-first rounder has had any impact in the last 3 years? Let’s hope we aren’t saying the same thing in another 3 years.

BTW…got season tix this year for the first time, in section 316. Maybe we can raise a few during the season.

By Craig Custance

September 7, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

Re: Hockey Books - I recently finished Martin Brodeur’s autobiography. If anyone is interested, e-mail me your address and I’ll ship it to you when I get back to the ATL. It’s a good read.

By Bob

September 7, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Did he do a chapter about Melanie calling him two hours before his starts and telling him about one of his buds she was going out on a date with that night? lol. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned

By Midfield

September 7, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

Lehtonen always plays well after a break. Right. Like in the game 3 of the play-offs last year. Anyone else has a scientific thesis that Hartley needs to familiarize himself with while planning for the upcoming season?

By Brendan

September 7, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this

Would Hartley even listen?

I don’t see how anyone can argue that Lehtonen doesn’t benefit from some “mental” rest, from time to time. Would any “reasonable” person suggest Lehtonen needs to play 15 to 20 straight games? Without a break?

Honestly, there’s nothing wrong a 7:1 rotation between Kari and Moose. Moose has to play some games. He shouldn’t go a month between starts. How many games do the Thrashers play in a month?, 13-15 games, roughly. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to give Moose two (2) starts a month. Johan needs those starts to stay on top of his game. And it doesn’t “hurt” Kari any to have that rest.

By Brendan

September 7, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

What ever happened between Brodeur and his ex-wife? I never fully got the scoop. Part of me just didn’t want to pay attention to it while it was going on. But now that a significant amount of time (2003) has passed, what did happen? Marty was having some affair with her sister? Or was it her brother’s wife? I only heard bits and pieces and basically tuned it out, since the 2003 playoffs were far more important than Marty’s love life. Devils won it all that year, over the Ducks. To me, that was the “story.” Not Brodeur’s domestic foibles.