Thrashers

By Brendan

April 30, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

Craig, good to know about the cap figure. That’s still an improvement over $44 million. The $47.5 quote I had was from the Head of the NHLPA, who has a “vested interest” in seeing the cap numbers driven upwards.

Craig, do you think Cory Sarich, from Tampa Bay, would like to stick it to his former mates by signing with Atlanta during the offseason? He’s still young at 28. Just a thought. Thanks for keeping the blog going during the offseason.

By UpperDeck4Life

April 30, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Craig, I guess it is just a gut feeling. We all know that Zhitnik and Havelid are under contract for next season and XLB is a RFA that at times this season was the team’s best defender on the ice and I figured he would be signed. That leaves 3 spots, one of which I was giving to Popovic. So with 2 spots left…I assummed one of those 2 would be given to a rookie. In my humble opinion, Popovic and McCarthy are very similar in their game. Oystick and Enstrom are also labled as “offensive” defenseman. Valabik, the only other rookie with a chance of making the club in my opinion…That is unless Nikulin finally decides to come over and leave the Russian League. Valabik is a “stay at home” type of defender. Right now XLB is really the only other one we have. I couldn’t see the team pairing Popovic and McCarthy together and then also bringing up Oystick or Enstrom, who I think are more NHL ready than Valabik is. This is what lead me to my conclusion. Well that and I figured that Hnidy would be resigned for a reasonable price before McCarthy was qualified. Although I only see either as a 5-6 type of d-man.

I will say this though, if the team signs him, it will be for him to play with our team and not to trade him. I seriously can not see another team trading for him after the limited ice time he received here last season after he had pretty much gotten the same treatment on his last team.

By Russian

April 30, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

Nikulin will come to summer camp in Atlanta. I guest he will try to get team spot. This is a latest Russian hockey news. ;-)

By Big D

April 30, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

CC, Marian Hossa is listed on the Slovakia team site - ironically wearing his bro’s #81. What gives? I thought he decided to sit out the tourney b/c of injuries and/or lack of interest.

By Lilah

April 30, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

Graig, Fredrik Norrena will start against Russia tomorrow. Everybody considers him as Finlands 1# goalie.

I agree, that Finland has best goalie duo in the tournament. I think biggest problem right now is, that finnish players take much too many penalties.

Great thing is, that team got Jere Lehtinen from Dallas.

By UpperDeck4Life

April 30, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

Russian thanks for the info. Atlanta has been trying for the last few seasons to get him over here. Everything I have read says he should be able to step into the lineup and is NHL ready. Looks like we could have a big log jam at defense during camp.

By Craig Custance

April 30, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

Russian and Lilah: Thanks for the updates, that’s good stuff.

By Boulton's Bruisers

April 30, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

UpperDeck - A log jam at defense is definitely a good thing. I hope Nikulin gets here, I believe he is the last player from the 2000 draft that Atlanta Thrashers still have rights to.

On a side note: I heard on 680 this morning that Andy Sutton backed out of his agreement to play on John Kincade’s golf team for Buck and John’s golf tournament after he found out that Kincade was predicting Sutton would not be an Atlanta Thrasher next season. Hmmm, sounds to me like Andy wants to stay, however, I don’t see how the Thrashers can afford to pay him.

By JayBird

April 30, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

I think we would all wish for a logjam at defense in camp. As long as there is some quality, of course. Craig, I can understand about the ticket prices but for a city that is so passionate about hockey, its hard for me to believe they couldn’t fill the building.

Craig, what is your thought on the resigning of Dupuis, Belanger, and Sim? I really like these 3 guys and think we can get them all at reasonable prices. I want Slava back but probably not for the amount of money he will demand. Who do you see us going after in free agency? Thanks for the great job you do.

By JayBird

April 30, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

Sutton backed out of the golf tournament because they wouldn’t allow him to play from the women’s tees.

By wh

April 30, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Hossa always wears 81 for Slovakia

By wh

April 30, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

Craig - Fins have been really strong Defensive club for awhile - look at the results in Turin. This team can win w/o scoring a lot of goals. Must be nice to go w/ 3rd and 4th string GK and still win easily.

Does anyone on this post have any info for Television for these games?

By The Falconer

April 30, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

“according to someone who saw the game, Kovalchuk’s all-NHL line with Malkin, Frolov, Gonchar and Markov really struggled.”

It would be easier if they had more than one puck to work with :)

By Lilah

April 30, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

Hi wh! IHWC.net informs that in USA chanel WCSN shows games.

By The Falconer

April 30, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Russian: Did the original source say summer camp, because that might very well mean the summer Prospects Camp. It doesn’t necesarily mean he has signed. He could come over and see what he thinks of Atlanta and the Thrashers could get a look at him as well and then they could see if both sides want to make a deal. Still if he is coming over for Prospects Camp that is a step in the right direction.

By sisu

April 30, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

The goalies for team Finland does NOT have a clear number one…this will be settled by the head coach hopefully before game 7 in the tourney. As it stands right now they will rotate the two. This is directly from the Finnish newspapers…

By CM

April 30, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

CC - Thanks for passing along the Ilya Q&A, that was great. Seems to me like he has a great personality. Of course, I don’t have to coach him either. : )

By CM

April 30, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

And about Kari’s comments, that’s really funny, although he didn’t necessarily mean it to be. Kind of indicates what he may have been feeling here. I wish him well in the tournament!

By Geneen

May 1, 2007 2:53 AM | Link to this

Kovy’s comments on Don Cherry (and his comparison of himself to Fedorov) — HILARIOUS!

I found the question about Slava interesting: “Do you know what kind of injury he has?” Does this mean he was playing hurt in the playoffs? Could that be why he failed to really show up?

CC: Thanks for posting that interesting interview!

By Rawhide

May 1, 2007 8:38 AM | Link to this

CC - Thanks for the post!!!

I find Kari’s comments very interesting. But, hey,…they are also right on the mark. This is why I feel the #1 issue for the front office during the off-season is picking up 2 strong vet d-men. Their are a few of them out their to be had.

5 that stand out to me,….Andrei Markov, Sami Salo, Josef Melichar, Brad Lukowich & Brian Rafalski, (yes I am a fan of NJ’s defense).

Then, (assuming we have Belanger and Holik at center),…..what would Scott Gomez and Daniel Briere look like in Thrasher uniformes???? (I know, I just broke the bank, didn’t I)????

JAYBIRD - Totally agree about Dupuis, Belanger, and Sim. These 3 established themselves here and they WANT to return.

WH - BIG game tonight, eh??? I still say the Sabers in 6,….but Sunday’s game was fun to watch and if you can sneek one tonight…….well,….

CM - How ya doing?

Great to see so much action on the blog-o-sphere even after the team’s season is over.

GO THRASHERS - IS IT OCTOBER YET??

By CM

May 1, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this

RH - doing well, thanks! I’ve enjoyed watching some intense playoff games and trying to keep up with our guys playing in Moscow. Hoss had an assist the other day as SK rolled over Germany and tomorrow they play Canada. It’s interesting looking at the rosters for all the National Teams.

I hope Buffalo sticks it to Sean Avery and the Ranjerks tonight. That reminds me, did you see the pic of Kovy punching him? It’s awesome!

BTW - Did you get my email from Brian?

I miss Blueland :(

By Rawhide

May 1, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this

Hey, CM, I didn’t get you e-mail,…BRAIN!!! You SLACKER!

I told him it was OK to forward my e-maill info to all present at “The Table”. Try it again!!

Anyway,…I didn’t see the pic. I’d love to, though.

Speaking of international play,…one thing I spoke to my friend at Atlanta Spirit about was how great it would be to see some exhibition stuff around here during the summer.

When I was a young-skull-full-of-mush I lived in the St. Pete/Tampa area. This was at the height of the NASL. The home team there, (The Rowdies), used to schedule “friendlies” during the offseason. Soccer teams like Manchester United, Liverpool, Dynamo Moscow came through as well as the Italian national and Chinese national squads. It was AWSOME!!

Anyway, I know logistics are tough. But it would really be something to see 3 or 4 such matches at Philips vs. the Russians national team or some of the European squads during the summer.

It would give us something to tie us over ‘till the fall and would promote the sport.

I know it’s a pipe-dream,….but maybe,……..

By CM

May 1, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

RH It may be a pipe dream, but wow, what tremendous promotion for the sport that would be, especially for the SE market. Put it this way, I don’t follow soccer all that closely, I see what’s shown on ESPN DePortes (or whatever), but I seriously doubt that I’d miss a match liken to the ones you mentioned. That is awesome! Think how many more players we’d (well, I’d) get to know that way.

Hey, I’m in!

Looks like Ilya won’t get exploit Kari’s apparent ‘weak spots’ when Russia faces off with Finland tonight. That could have been interesting.

Some of the reading I’ve been doing has provoked some more thinking about the Thrashers club. One thing that sticks out is chemistry. Do you think they had it? I’m not sure they did. You hear so many players referring to it all coming down to team chemistry and I feel like that if you don’t have it, you have a problem. Defense wasn’t our only weakness, so could the lack of chemistry have had something to do with their demise?

By Rawhide

May 1, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

CM - That’s an interetsing question. I still think defense was our #1 problem,….but you make a good point.

It seemed like there was “something” missing,…really since New years. maybe it was chemistry.

Maybe it was the fact that the organization was in unchartered waters and no one, from the front office down to the water boy knew how to handle it…I dunno.

Now, one thing is for sure. Anytime a team wins the cup, or even goes deep in the playoffs, you always hear something about it. Players or writers will point back to a certain, “AH-HA” moment when the team “jelled” or “came together”. I really can’t think of a time we could say that about last season.

The two weeks after “the trades” took place was electric, for sure,…then they hit another plataeu it seemed. If they had kept that level up into April,….things coulda been different.

Your “chemisrty” thing is an issue that is improved when players spend more time with each other. Since the lock-out, free-agency has shuffled so many players around that it effects this aspect of the game.

That is why I would like to see people like belanger and Dupuis back here. I liked their play and a full season my help the,…well,…chemistry thing.

By Rawhide

May 1, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

BTW,…where does one go to “kkep up” with the IIHF World Championship matches???

Certainly they aren’t on TV, are they???

By Thrasher_Ed

May 1, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

Guys, Kari Lehtonen’s comments in Russia are very accurate. He faces way too much rubber per game. Look at our stats for shots on goal by our opponents. Friend of mine said until the Thrashers solve that number shots on goal by opposition they will continue to struggle. Look at Detroit, and several others in the playoffs. Their goalies don’t face near as many pucks per game. Lower the number of shots against and this team can go farther with less.

By Legion of Thrash

May 1, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

Defense has always been the demise of this franchise. Don Wadell refuses to put together a solid group of defenders. Our system is also flawed. “We allow other teams to have shots from certain angles”, according to the illustrious Don Wadell. Well Don when the team is allowed 35+ shots on goal continously, don’t you think quite a few may go in? San Jose’s coach picked that out, remember the 5-1 romping? Every year we have been a minus as far as GF/GA. This year we were a whopping plus 1.

Hell only knows what that idiot will do this offseason.

By ZAvalanche

May 1, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

Thrasher Ed, your friend has a great point. The law of averages will catch up to you. Moose was able to keep out most of the shots, but the fluky ones found a way. If they aren’t taken in the first place, well……….

RH-I think it would be fantastic to see some national teams in here. How amazing would it be to see Sweden vs Finland at Philips!! I think you have a calling to be the promotion director for hockey in Atlanta.

By Rawhide

May 1, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

ZAv - seeing two internationals play would be great!But I was referring to something like the Thrashers vs. Sweden,….or the Thrashers vs. Moscow.

But, I tell ya,…I would come out to see international play….maybe some sort of Blueland Tournament….

By Brian

May 1, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Ok, enough of the “Brian’s a slacker” comments… They’re on the way!

By Rawhide

May 1, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

BRIAN!! - Where ya been, buddy???

By Brendan

May 1, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Folks, the trade deadline, in my opinion, was always intended to be a means of tweaking the roster. It was never intended to be a means of OVERHAULING it.

In 2004, the Tampa Bay Lightning barely made any moves. I don’t think they made one. In 2006, Carolina got a few players. Doug Weight was one of them.

In 2003, Jersey made a minor move. All three of those teams won the Cup in those respective years. Adding 4-6 players affects the team chemistry. It could backfire. In our case this year, it was very successful. Belanger, Zhitnik, Dupuis and Tkachuk got us the division title and playoff berth they were brought in to accomplish.

I can’t pinpoint what went wrong in the playoffs. My “guess” is … we were outcoached by Tom Renney. Plus, ya know, we’re not YOUNG. After the trade deadline, I think the average team age was over 31. The Rangers aren’t spring chickens, themselves, but they did what they had to … to win. And they’re holding their own versus the Sabres, thus far. Truthfully, I give the Rangers a 2-1 edge in “who played better.” Buffalo leads the series, 2-1. The Sabres were a double OT goal away from being up, 3-0. Even though it was a loss, the Sabres youth and speed is wearing down the Rangers. Folks, the season is 82 games long. We’re into the 2nd round now. Guys who are 33 and older are feelin’ it. They just won’t “admit it.” They’re tired. They’re wearing down. And multiple overtime games is rough on an older club. That was my concern with the 2006-07 Thrashers. Would our legs be fresh, in a seven game series? How would we fare in a double or triple overtime game?

Sabres-Rangers is the early game tonight. It should be good. Renney is doing an excellent job of coaching his club. Lindy Ruff is the better coach. But Ruff doesn’t get the final change tonight. If the series goes back to Buffalo, 2-2, the pressure’s really on the #1 seed.

By Craig Custance

May 1, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

Russia is up 4-1 in the third on Finland. Kovalchuk has assisted on a power play goal. Lehtonen did not start.

By Brian

May 1, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

Rawhide - check out the last blog. Brendan & I broke down the roster 32 different ways and gave 46 FA options. Ok, maybe that’s exaggerating, but I’ve been here.

By UpperDeck4Life

May 1, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

US has come back to tie it with about 4:30 left in the 3rd period on a PP and SH goals in the third.

By CM

May 1, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

RH here’s the link that I’ve been reading from for the Worlds http://live82.ihwc.net/english/ It’s cool to check up on what’s going on over there.

And here’s http://fe23.sports.re4.yahoo.com/nhl/photo?slug=getty-73891518mh026atlantathras95326pm&prov=getty that picture of Kovy socking Avery. Good stuff.

(I don’t know how to link that other way..clearly right?) I hope that works. Sorry!! Help with that linking with one word thing?

Couldn’t agree more about the number of shots our goalie(s) face. I think each of us becomes more and more aware of that as the stats from the playoff games are thrown up, shots faced and so forth. 18, 23, 25 and so on. Our guys rarely faced less than 30 (or more) I’d say, and rarely took that many. Considering that, our goal percenatage had to be pretty good right, but again, our D simply allowed them too many shots, err chances. Anyway, old news.

Brian - thought we lost ya kid!

By Matt H

May 1, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

CC Thanks for posting the Kovy interview. I always wonder what we’re missing, personality-wise, from player interviews in hockey due to the language barrier. It’s rare to see interviews that are quite that candid stateside.

Rawhide The Rowdies are a kick in the grass. Ahh, laserlight shows on the 4th of July at the big sombrero, enjoyed from the Tampa Bay Mall parking lot… Those were the days…

By UpperDeck4Life

May 1, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Russia won 5-4, but the only point Kovy got was an assist.

US let Czech score with about a minute and a half left to win. Well….I guess that’s what you get when you go into a tournament with John Grahame as your #1 goalie

By wh

May 1, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

I propose Miller be sent to Russia to replace Graham ASAP. He should leave this afternoon to avoid traffic.

By CM

May 1, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

RH the pic link didn’t work, I’ll email it. Sorry for the waste of space!

Dang US!

By UpperDeck4Life

May 1, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Allan Muir, who I really hate. I have not liked some of his comments in reguard to the Thrashers and some of it’s players since the beginning of the season and therefore rarely read his stuff….but he just put up an interview with Bettman. Some of it by the book, but some of it was interesting. Especially the comment about 60% of the fans they have polled being in favor of the unbalanced schedule and not wanting a change. Had to shake my head at that one. Anyways here is the link.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/allan_muir/05/01/bettman.interview/index.html

By wh

May 1, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

usual suspects move to medal round - Swiss are the new Latvia for Russia or Sweden to pound on.

Sweden wins it all with their “C” team - going way out on a limb here I know.

By Rawhide

May 1, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

WH - Send Miller to help,…LOL. Now, you wouldn’t have a hidden agenda, would you????

BRIAN - You and Brendan have TOOOoooo much free time on your hands. But that’s awsome. I really can’t wait to see how DW deals this summer.

MATT H - Did you live down there at the time??? I was spoiled at who I got to watch play,…and never really knew it. Marsh, Pele, Chanaglia, Benkenbaur, Gerd Meuller, Trevor Frances, Gordon Banks, the lsit goes on-and-on,…not to mention the foreign teams that came over. I remember a playoff game,…’79 was it,…..late September in a monsoon. All the ladies that wore T-shirts. I was only 14,…..(sigh),….

CM I got the link through your “secondary” contact source, (wink-wink-nod-nod). I love the picure. Thanks!

By Tony C.

May 2, 2007 3:34 AM | Link to this

do we (Le Thrash) have the rights to this Schell kid?

By Blueliner

May 2, 2007 4:00 AM | Link to this

Tony C Yes, Brad Schell is contracted to the Thrashers but his contract expires this year and he may even be UFA

By Boulton's Bruisers

May 2, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

I’ve been waiting on Schell to get to Atlanta for some time now. He’s been ripping it up at Gwinnett for at least 2 seasons now. I think he’s ready, at least to go to Chicago.

By luckydog

May 2, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

If anyone is watching the Rangers-Sabres series, I think that was the WORST CALL IN THE HISTORY OF VIDEO REPLAY when the idiots in Toronto “couldn’t see” Brier’s last-second tuck-in goal that would have tied game 4.

I say this as someone pulling for the Rangers. But even if you couldn’t see the puck when it went over the line, it went somewhere, and over the line was the only possibility if you saw the superslow zoom frame they showed on versus. Terrible, gutless, irresponsible call, and the Versus guys didn’t even have the nads to say so.

Thots?

By Rawhide

May 2, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

LUCKY DOG - Even though I thought the puck went over the line….it was not 100% conclusive to over-turn the on-ice call by the refs of “no-goal”.

IF the puck did indeed cross the line,…it did so under the pads and out of sight.

Again,…even though I thought it crossed the line,…..I would have made the same decision due to the fact that I could not SEE the puck under the pads.

Tough break, none-the-less.

This is turning out to be a GREAT series to watch.

By Matt H

May 2, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

Rawhide ‘84-‘97 I was a Tampanian, during my formative years. I hate the cold, can endure punishing amounts of humidity and heat, and love Cuban food. I missed to golden days of the Rowdies, I think they moved indoors around when our family moved down there. Back in the early days the Rowdies were the biggest draw in town, because their only competition was Hugh Culverhouse’s Yucks (Man, you couldn’t give those tickets away).

By Matt H

May 2, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Also, I thought it was a goal, but I could see why they called it back. Barring some GPS chip in pucks that chirp out a signal when it crosses a goal line (and how reliable would that be anyway?) we’ll have to make do with video replay as it is.

Poor Sabres fans. First Bret Hull’s foot, now…

By wh

May 2, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

Probably was in (What the HELL was Lundqvist thinking?) HOWEVER - I have seen this blown up and slowed down to frame by frame speed. There is never “conclusive” evidence of white space between puck and redline. The black edge on HL pad blurs it further. I don’t know if this is the worst call in replay history - I have seen some awful ones (Particularly NFL). Fortunate break for sure. I now have the Sabres leading 2-1 in blown goal calls - The “Kick” no goal in game 3 and the hand off the stick punch in goal from the Sabres in game 1. I won’t even go into the officiating in Game 3 as It still makes my BP rise and is moot thanks to Ranger win anyway. Series is being played at Rangers pace. That being said, they need to find a way to win in Buffalo which will be absolutely rocking on Friday Night. Canucks choked last night and got very unlucky when DMan w/ no stick in front of the net covering Selanne late.

By wh

May 2, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

P.S. - Zubris is UFA and will be reasonably priced

By Rawhide

May 2, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

MATT H - I lived there from ‘74 - ‘79 as a kid,…so I was there in their hay-days! I spent some time there ‘89-‘91 as an adult. It wasn’t the same.

I am the opposite of you. I would much rather be in a blizzard with 2 degrees outside then 98 degrees and 97% humidity. (Of course, a day like today in the ATL is picture perfect).

Of course,…nothing beats being on a boat out on the bay in the middle of summer, (if you know what I mean)…

WH - As for the “kick” goal. I find it almost impossible to see how the can make such determinations. I mean, the officials are being asked to climb into the players mind to see what they are thinking,….are they kicking it on purpose to doing a hockey stop so they don’t plow into the goalie?????

I think they should just simplify it and say that if it goes into the goal DIRECTLY off an offensive players skate,..no goal. Take the guessing away from the whole ordeal.

By Brian

May 2, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

Matt H - yeah, thanks for that gut punch, but at least they are finally REVIEWING goals. Not just Hull’s foot, but don’t forget the Phantom goal by Philly that didn’t even beat Hasek, there was a hole in the side of the net that it went in through to get to the back of the net, never even crossed the goal line…

By luckydog

May 2, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

wh, The difference between this and the blown replay call on the phantom kick is that the rangers won game 3 anyway. This clearly lost the game for Buffalo.

As far as the video, what I saw was the puck headed into the net, the line, and lundqviist’s pad. then in the next frame the puck has disappeared and there’s only the ice, the line and the pad. There’s only one place the puck could be, and that’s across the line under the pad.

Let common sense rule, for gosh sake!!

Like I said I was pulling slightly for the rangers as the underdogs (and because I genuinely admired their play in thrashing our thrashers) but now I think I’ m for buffablow.

By CM

May 2, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

I agree that perhaps it should be a no goal if it goes in off an offensive skate. During every replay/review, that’s what I’ve been thinking to myself. “Why not disallow any goal off a skate, end of story?” There are too many variables when they’re trying to determine the intention of a player. Admittedly I do not have the background to match most of you here with regards to hockey, and there are lucky breaks in every sport for sure, but it seems to me that a ‘goal’ off a skate isn’t really a goal at all, but rather a relatively flukey (okay so we have heard that word too much lately) occurance, but that’s just my opinion, for what it’s worth.

So I wonder how Hoss will do tonight? hmm…

By wh

May 2, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

I do not expect universal agreement on this so I will make this my last post as to the play.

Game would have went to OT so I have to disagree with your logic somewhat in that the Sabres could have lost in OT so it is not definitive that they lost on this call (Yes I understand the resulting outcome of the call) - just as the Rangers could have lost game 3 in OT after they were hosed. Just as the Punch goal in game 1 (not getting any pub) fully changed momentum as Rangers mounted comeback and it would have been a 1 goal game late. As I stated earlier I have seen this replay frame by frame - there is no “conclusive” evidence of white ice between black puck and Redline. Call on the ice was no goal so by rule replay must be “conclusive”. There is an “assumption” that the puck kept sliding as it was obscured by the pad. How do we know to what level the pad was in contact with the ice and puck stopped sliding?

Common sense is a one of the great misnomers of all time. As it is said, it is hardly common - and I would state never common in sports. Replay is a flawed system but without review, the result in this case would be the same - no goal.

As for the Flyer goal - Replay provided between periods shows puck CLEARLY went through the side of the net. Of all the tough calls, including Hull, this is the only one where indisputably the wrong call affected the outcome.

Best of 3.

By wh

May 2, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

I had a 2 hour conversation (sad I know) regarding the “off the skate rule”. The problem is that a deflection off of any other body part is legitimate so where do you draw the line? Is it the blade? The boot? Below the ankle - if so where does the ankle stop and the shin start? Maybe all deflections should be illegal? (no) In the end it is to me one of the indefinable vagaries of the game.

By Rawhide

May 2, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

WH - Common sense is a one of the great misnomers of all time. As it is said, it is hardly common - Amen to that brother!

As far as “the skate” rule…..would it be too much of a stretch to state that in order for a goal to be scored, it must come off the stick of an offensive player. (Of course, ANY deflection off a defender’s ANYTHING is a goal)….?????

CM - So I wonder how Hoss will do tonight? …I just hope your boy, Marian, isn’t doing any further damage to his shoulder.

Admittedly I do not have the background to match most of you here with regards to hockey - Maybe not the “years”,…but you always bring a nice perspective to the discussion and honest opinions born from observation and a passion for the game!

By wh

May 2, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

Rawhide - Guy in front of the net - particularly on the PP - deflects puck in off his leg, torso, head etc … these are all legitimate, albeit painful, methods of goal scoring where the stick is not utilized. This is too much a part of the game to remove. Thomas Holmstrom needs to make a living.

By wh

May 2, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Hossa scored in this game - 5-4 Canada late

By Matt H

May 2, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Sorry for bringin’ back the pain, Brian. That still irks me too. I’m pulling for the Sabres all the way here this season (now, anyway…).

By Brian

May 2, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Matt H - that’s alright, it’s not like there isn’t plenty of ammo to get a guy from Buffalo all riled up…

By CM

May 2, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

So now that the Slovaks choked on the Canadians, the US gets to play them! The Slovaks aren’t quite Belarus..lol, but it should still be an interesting matchup. Good to see (well, read) that Hossa scored a goal. It had been a while…

It’s too bad the US doesn’t promote this tournament more. As far as I can tell you can’t even buy anything that has beans to do with it. It’s not like we don’t have a team representing the US playing (and winning) in the tournament. Oh well..

RH - Why thank you, I certainly appreciate that! Regardless of how far they go (the Slovaks), the finals are on the 13th I think, so he’ll still have time to heal whatever minor afflictions he may have before training camp. BTW - There sure is a lot of buzz on the Braves blog today!

By Brendan

May 2, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

Folks, I’ve asked for “indulgences” in the past. I’ll ask for them again. But a part of me, the “conspiracy theorist” in me anyway, has resurfaced.

I am, as always, honest in what I think. Sometimes I’m wrong. Sometimes, I’m offbase. Other times, I’m entirely offbase. This might be one of those times. But here goes.

I see a league (NHL) that took “slings and arrows” when the two of the three smallest markets (Raleigh and Edmonton) met in the Stanley Cup Finals last year. Now, I grant you that any Canadian team will draw well up in Canada, in terms of TV-ratings. That would even be true if the two Stanley Cup Finalists were AMERICAN teams. But I digress.

Last night, I saw a goaltender’s pad INSIDE the net be struck by a puck. The lone camera angle was obstructed from seeing the puck inside the net. But I think it’s reasonable to conclude that a puck striking a goaltenders’ pad, WELL INSIDE THE NET constitutes a goal.

Why do I even mention it? Well, doesn’t denying that goal essentially PREVENT the Rangers from losing that game, thereby FORCING a sixth game, and another $2 million in gate revenue and another TELEVISED GAME featuring a LARGE MARKET, TRADITIONAL HOCKEY POWER and “Orginal Six” team?

Well, by Golly. IT DOES!! Was this goal, “accidently ON PURPOSE” ruled not a goal?”

Hmmn, tough to prove, isn’t it? Well, I sure hope that small market, Northern California team, (the San Jose Sharks,) doesn’t get a healthy DOSE of the same tonight, when they tangle with a LARGE MARKET, TRADITIONAL HOCKEY POWER and “Original Six” team in the Detroit Red Wings, the next time a “goal review” situation arises. I mean, wouldn’t a 2-2 series guarantee a sixth game, featuring “Hockeytown?”

I’m jus’ sayin’. I could be WRONG. Maybe I am. But tell me, again, how it would be utterly DISASTEROUS for TV ratings to feature some of the leagues’ larger market, more ESTABLISHED hockey powers? Tell me why it would abject failure for the Stanley Cup Finals to feature Detroit vs. NY Rangers, from a TV-ratings analysis perspective? Wouldn’t that “silence” some of the “naysayers” of how and why this cap was really needed?

I’m sure the league would love to be able to argue that the cap allowed a NY vs Detroit Finals as well as a Carolina vs. Edmonton Finals. Fair to everyone. Polar opposite results. The system works, they’d say.

Shoot, if the Rangers really met the Red Wings in the Finals, ESPN might get back on board with the NHL. It’s gonna get some ratings. Market size alone would do that. Add to the mix that both teams have been around since at least 1924, and you’ve got some compelling storylines. I’m sure the NHL would break out the video from the 1940’s and 50’s.

Compare and contrast that with the TV audience, both U.S. and Canadian, for a Finals featuring the Buffalo Sabres vs. the San Jose Sharks? Will San Jose get HOSED during the next video review goal with Detroit? I can’t say definitively, but if they do, you know what I’ll be thinking. TOLD YA!

By wh

May 2, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this

Brendan, I usually find your commentary insightful. Conspiracy theory? - doesn’t that seem unusual in light of 7 straight power plays for the visiting Sabres in Game 3 when Rangers were being dumped all over the place with no calls?

When the Rangers were cheated not once but twice on goal calls? I have watched it to the frame level over and over -BTW -Lundqvist’s pad is not fully in the net? Do you really believe that the Big Market US ratings are going to be dramatically different enough to risk alienating an already niche audience that the game is not played on the level? Do you think that Canadians care if it is NY or a small market team? Where was this outrage when the Rangers were getting screwed by the Refs? Oswald killed Kennedy, There are no UFO’s in Roswell and you did not see a puck conclusively cross the Red Line last night unless you had proprietary private cameras providing you a view below Lundqvist’s pads.

By wh

May 2, 2007 6:29 PM | Link to this

BTW - Population of Detroit is 950K Population of San Jose is 975K so maybe it is Detroit that will get the assistance. If you want to use metro area stats San Jose would pummel Detroit in total households.

By ZAvalanche

May 2, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this

Brendan, I must agree with WH in this one. Sure, hockey would most likely benefit from a finals with large market teams but do i think that the refs are leaning towards the large market, no. Now, as for the goal through the wrong side of the net in Philly several years back, or the Brett Hull skate in the crease in Buffalo in ‘99, i cannot comment………..

By wh

May 2, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

Fingers moving faster than my brain - San Jose gets the assistance ….

By Legion of thrash

May 2, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this

WH, I agree the kick in no goal should have been a goal, even Briere said it was a gola. Now the Supposed punch in puck, I disagree! The puck comes off his stick near the end of his glove, it was a very skillful play.

By Rawhide

May 2, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this

Brendan, was that YOU on the grassy knoll????

By wh

May 2, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know if visiting teams have morning skate at Ice forum?

By Brendan

May 2, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

I have an alibi for the grassy knoll. It’s a good one. I wasn’t born yet. :)

Hey, I made you guys think, though, didn’t I? That alone makes it insightful, if inaccurate, commentary. By the way, I did “couch” my remarks. Sufficiently, I might add. Now if the Sharks get ripped off tonight, then what? :) Still makin’ ya think?

The on ice officials don’t make video review decisions. They report what Toronto tells ‘em to. And when there’s 0:15 seconds left in a one-goal game, what they say is probably going to affect the outcome.

But I’ll say this. I estimate there’s a 10-percent chance that three (3) people could keep the secret of who stole the sugar at a tea party for longer than six hours. If there were a real conspiracy … it’d get out. :) And what’s more, it’d be virtually impossible to “fix” an entire series.

Though the guys in my office joke, “Well, not if we’re talking about the Thrashers. They folded like an accordian. We blinked and their playoffs were OVER.” Yeah, something tells me it wasn’t “deliberate.” But I digress.

Do the San Jose Sharks enjoy the same level of “nationwide following” that the Red Wings do? There might be more people living in San Jose than Detroit. And certainly more people living in California than Michigan. But how many of ‘em are watchin’ hockey? My money’s on the displaced Red Wing fans tuning in … wherever they might be across North America. Like Yankee fans in baseball. And Cowboys, Raiders and Steelers fans across the country when their team is on TV.

I hear it all the time. “Well Brendan, I’m not much of a hockey fan. But if the Red Wings are on, I’ll watch. If not, I could CARE LESS.” Yeah, great. That’s just Super. Way to support the NHL, and hockey in general. And these like-minded fans couldn’t name two members of the Red Wings team, and could probably be tricked into admitting they didn’t know Yzerman had retired. But they’ll tune in for the Red Wings, if they’re on. Sadly, I think the league knows this.

Oh well.

By wh

May 2, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this

Sharks are going to win this series - I also think they will win the Cup. Thorton is the oddest player I have ever seen. Incredible passer and will beat your a* - but never shoots or goes to the net? Really weird. Another perfect pass to Cheechoo. Dude is unreal. Watching him and Pronger slug it out will be the highlight of the playoffs - unless Jagr and Pronger matchup (bias) which would also be great to watch.

By Brendan

May 2, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

In preseason, ESPN freelance writer Scott Burnside projected San Jose over Buffalo for the Cup this year. I thought that was a solid pick then, and still do now. San Jose 1, Detroit 0, after one period.

Eleven of twelve (11/12) “experts” (ESPN, CBS SPORTS, USAToday) picked San Jose over Detroit, despite the Red Wings being the #1 seed and missing the President’s Trophy by something like one-point. I think San Jose is younger, deeper and faster. All good things in the “new NHL.”

By Tony C.

May 3, 2007 4:25 AM | Link to this

Brendan* I think it’s the fact that there’s no skater on SJ that is smaller than 6’0” 200lbs.

Seems like it anyway.

By Joe

May 3, 2007 4:36 AM | Link to this

Lehtonen’s partying ways! How serious is this guy? You wonder why he did so poorly in the play-offs? Each night of the play-off run and the actual play-offs themselves, your local hero has drunken parties and orgies, cursing, doing drugs in a family neighborhood. Consistently waking all people up, causing the dogs to bark and causing the people that work to be alienated from the team. Another young, rich, bumm. But hey, at least his quotes are so interesting… Why don’t you go party with him, you’re sure to get some more…

By luckydog

May 3, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this

I also picked San Jose to win it all. But after the game 4 debacle last night they are starting to look like chokers who can’t seal a deal.

By Bob

May 3, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

The NBA’s been fixed for years, making ludicrous calls that would guarantee 7 game series and always favoring the big market teams. Bettman could’ve brought some of that magic to the NHL. How they didn’t rule that a goal for Buffablow is beyond me, it was obviously in.

What’s the word with Lehtonen? I saw a YouTube of him pouring drinks in a bar the night after our loss, didn’t look too upset, which I thought was good. But the ridiculous blue hair mohawk et al did make me raise the eyebrows, what are the rumors on him?

I was so p** off at Heatley when he demanded out of here and then gave us the virtual finger after he got to Ottawa, I had myself convinced that Hossa was the better player.

I can see now why Ottawa traded him. Heatley’s leading the playoffs in points now and leading his team to the Conference Finals.

Waddell did a great job getting Hossa in return for us, but Ottaw won that trade, hands down. Heater’s a playoff performer who stepped up his game. We saw what Hossa does. Man, could you imagine how great it would have been to have Heatley and Kovy tearing it up for us in the playoffs. But now it’s Heatley and Spezza. Bah.

By Brendan

May 3, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

There’s no doubt that Dany Heatley is a “winner,” when it comes to hockey. He’s had two (2) 50-goal campaigns, had 100-points one year, and has won at, seemingly, every level. I bet he won in pee-wee. He’s got a NCAA National Title. He’s been “Rookie of the Year,” he’s been the MVP of the All-Star game, for whatever that’s worth. But he was “among the guilty” in Ottawa’s crushing defeat last year. He had one (1) goal in the playoffs. He was invisible in the Buffalo Series, that the Sens lost, 4-1.

Now, if you’ll all recall, I was plenty “steamed” when I heard the trade. Right or wrong, there are moments in your life that you remember where you were when it happened. I’m not saying this trade is on a par with the Kennedy Assassination, Reagan getting shot, the invasion of the Faulkland Islands, news of Princess Di’s death, or when you found out that U.S. troops had invaded Iraq. A pretty broad stroke of the brush there, I figured at least one of those events might ring true for your memory banks. But yes, I can tell you EXACTLY where I was when I found out about the trade. I was just south of Hartsfield Airport on Riverdale Rd. when news came over 680TheFan that Heatley had been traded. I darn near lost control of the car, and wondered what on Earth might have possessed DW to trade him. But I patiently waited to finally learn of the full details and salary cap implications of this move. I remember thinking that, “it seemed like Ottawa got a price break on Heatley.” Which they did, to the tune of $1.5 million per year. But, I held out hope that Greg deVries might actually be the “X” factor of the trade. After all, he had won a Cup. Our defense was always something close to “terrible.” And I thought, in its “totality,” this is a wash of a trade. When I learned of the reason behind the trade, I was furious. Absolutely furious. I felt hurt by it. I was told to “get over it.” But all I could think was … “there goes the foundation piece of this Stanley Cup puzzle.” In time, that anger subsided and I came to very much admire Marian Hossa.

Without Hossa, there’d be no playoffs for Atlanta. It might be true that he’s a regular season type of performer. But you can’t win the Stanley Cup without first making the playoffs. John Kincade, on 680TheFan, mentioned that he thought Hossa was having some offseason surgery on his left shoulder. That may or may not be true. If Hossa was playing hurt, I do salute him for it, and understand why the results weren’t there for him.

There’s little doubt in my mind that Marian Hossa is one of the 20-best forwards walking God’s green Earth. I’m at a loss to come up with reasons to ditch him, beyond that of the obvious salary cap concerns. But since he ISSSS this great player, he ought to fetch a “windfall” of talent in return. Marian Hossa just might be the first $10 million contract of the CBA, when he hits the Open Market in July of 2008. It just depends on what the cap size as to what his MAXIMUM salary figure will be.

He’s gonna cost a lot to retain. $10 million buys you a lot of “depth.” Even in 2008 dollars. The thing that will make me even madder than the Heatley trade … is if Hossa is traded at a bargain rate to some other team. I mean, if Hossa can be had for $7.0 to $7.75 million, why not keep him? Even if he is a playoff flop. He’ll at least get you there. It’s up to the GM to find “other pieces” to contribute while Hossa is getting double-teamed. Where was Sim? Where was Belanger, after his first goal? Where was KOZLOV? Where was Slater? Dupuis did “okay,” but still … there wasn’t enough contribution, all the way around. Even thought KT led the team in scoring, three-points in four games, he missed chances, too. Maybe our most impressive line was Holik and Larsen.

Sorry for the long post.

By Brendan

May 3, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Bob, if there’s a “fix,” it is what you’ve described: to prolong a series. In other words, let’s say the Rangers get up in the series, 3-2, over Buffalo. Hypothetically. And Game Six goes into overtime, and there’s a “goal review” situation for either club. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that it’s a potential Buffalo goal. From the replays, it appears not to be a goal. In other words, the Rangers stopped them. The review gets rather lengthy. And then, to the utter astonishment of the Garden, the goal counts, and Buffalo wins the game.

Now what? What are people gonna say?? What can they possibly say?? If they accuse league officials of “fixing it” for Buffalo, then they’ll point to Game Four and say, “if that were true, then why’d they disallow Briere’s goal?” If they say the league is trying to fix it for the Rangers, then they’ll point to Game Three and say, “Then why was this goal disallowed, based on some alleged distinct kicking motion?”

The only answer I can find is this: It’s to do whatever prolongs the series. The longer the series goes, the more money the league makes. The more exposure it gets. The greater the drama, and so forth. And if such a series can feature a big market, “Original Six,” Traditional hockey power, so much the better.

Again, it’s tough to prove. But with “alibi’s” like that, it really can lead them to operate with impunity. They’ve got perfectly plausible “defenses” for the accusations and allegations.

By wh

May 3, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

20 best forwards? Think you can narrow this down a bit. 7/56MM gets it done

By Brendan

May 3, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

That’s be DW’s for 7-year deal. I like 5/$40 better. This way, we’re still getting him at a discount rate of $8.0 million, but he’s able to be let when he reaches his mid-30’s, when players typically become more susceptible to injury.

But even at 7/$56, I suspect he’s still priced to move, if either party “changes its mind” about playing in Atlanta.

By wh

May 3, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

The moon landing was a fake to make the American people feel secure during the cold war

By CM

May 3, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

You may have read about it already (or not care at all) but The US rolled over the Slovaks today in Moscow 4-2 and kept Hossa off the scoreboard all together. Of course we know that isn’t impossible but it’s interesting none-the-less.

Also, Kari helped lead the Fins to a shutout over the Swiss and was named the teams player of the game. How cool is that? I’d say playing in this tournament is a very good thing for him, at least he isn’t thinking (dwelling) about the way things ended over here.

By wh

May 3, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

5/40M = New Team

By Brian

May 3, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

Brendan - no one on this blog would expect me not to support you in this conspiracy theory. However, most of them also know that I can quote my facts pretty well. And from a ratings standpoint, Buffalo has been one of the top teams on VS this year. I still agree that prolonging the series can be the ultimate motive, but why chance it?

This is like when someone says, “oh, lose that clinching game so we get 1 more home game’s revenue” Every GM and Coach and Owner always comes back and says not to chance it. It is just as good for Buffalo to be in the next round for ratings if not better, don’t chance them not being there.

By Tony H

May 3, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

I think that most of you have far more trust in the abilities of Wadell than I will ever have. You are making the assumption that he can give/get value for players. I have yet to see it. The Heatley deal was a fiasco. Not in terms of the fact that we didn’t get a world-class player in Hossa, but rather we absorbed more salary than we should have by including De Vries and his salary especially when looking at his ability and contribution level. Now, the question is whether De Vries is whether the Thrashers even want to re-sign him thus making the deal a straight up Heatley for Hossa trade. Throw in the fact that Hossa is under contract for only one more year. The more I see of our management the more I liken them to Florida and their trade of Luongo to Vancouver for Bertuzzi et al. Vancouver gets a world-class goalie who has carried them deep into the playoffs and Florida is left with one decent D prospect out of their whole package. Great trade, huh? Until Wadell and his boy, Hartley, show me something pro-active, I will remain skeptical as to how they will next botch the Thrashers roster. I sincerely hope that they will prove me wrong but I have my doubts.

By Brendan

May 3, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Brian, I’m not sayin’ any players, or coaches for that matter, are trying to throw any games here. Especially for revenue purposes.

But Bob does have me wondering if the good folks in Toronto, who do video reviews, are attempting to articially prolong series. At first, one might think, “That’s ridiculous. Not to mention, outrageous.” But how do we really know they’re not doing it? Maybe they don’t even care about ratings, it’s about gate revenue and advertising sales. Nobody makes any additional money unless the games are actually played.

My “I’m not too sure about that” meter is tingling. I want to believe the league has integrity and would be ABOVE this sort of thing. And, if there actually were some “meeting” or policy or, gasp, a memo documenting the intent to artificially prolong series, it would be potentially disasterous for the league’s reputation. Though, I’m sure there’d be some level sympathy for them, as well. As in, “It’s the NHL. They need the money. The Little League World Series has, in years’ past, outdrawn games in the Stanley Cup Finals.”

It’s been fun to speculate about. :) It’s on my radar now.

By Brendan

May 3, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

Brian, I do suspect that you are right about fans wanting to see Buffalo, in that they are a young, fast, exciting team.

But I would find it surprising that the Sabres outdraw the Boston Bruins, in Indiana, or something. (Trying to think of some neutral location.) But year in and year out, I don’t think Buffalo enjoys the status of teams that have been around since the 1920’s. Right now, the Sabres are a strong Cup contender, so they’re getting a lot of attention. But what if they “tank” in a few years? Will they still be a big draw?, outside of Western New York and Southern Ontario?

I suppose this sort of talk lends itself well to the argument that says, “Any hot team will draw ratings?” If the Columbus Blue Jackets suddenly became a Powerhouse contender, their games would draw well. But what’s better for the league, if all things are equal? The Rangers, Bruins, Red Wings, Blackhawks becoming powerhouse teams, and who are gonna challenge for the Cup? Or the San Jose’s, Phoenixes, Calgarys, Carolinas and Buffalos of the league?

I’d love to say, “hockey fans are hockey fans. And all they want to see is good hockey.” But I’m afraid that the truth is something closer to … my (supply team name here) are done for the season, I’m gonna pay attention to something else.

When the Rangers won the Cup in 1994, it was huge. Commissioner Bettman assumed, “Hockey’s back, and bigger and better than ever!” Well … maybe that was a grand success because the market was New York, and there had been a 54-year drought from the Cup for the Blueshirts. And, uhh … it didn’t hurt that their opponent (Vancouver) was from north of border, for ratings up there. Think, “Hockey Night in Canada.”

By Brendan

May 3, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this

Okay folks, Waddell and Hartley just got renewed for next season, terms undisclosed. Levensen wouldn’t even divulge the “length” of the contract.

It’s a “secret.” A national security secret. LOL. Well look, if you like the guys, you re-sign them. What’s the harm in saying it’s some 3-year deal or other? Or another 1-year deal? If Bob Hartley’s lost the room, then he’s lost the room. No matter how many years he got on his contract.

Honestly, what is the problem regarding disclosure? Don’t we hockey fans, who buy tickets and support this product by watching it on TV, deserve to be told the truth? Or is this the proverbial case of, “we can’t handle the truth!” LOL.

By Legion of thrash

May 3, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this

Tony C., I agree with you 100%. I am scared of the team Wadell is going to put together, especially with all the prospects that he thinks are ready and might not be. We don’t have that much money to work with and we need a center for Hossa, a center for Kovy, and a right wing for Kovy. Not to mention we need some DEFENSE!

By Brendan

May 3, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

CM, thanks for the update. Good for the U.S., and good for Kari. How’s Ilya doing?

By Bob

May 4, 2007 12:24 AM | Link to this

If this club needs to go young, Hartley is not the man to do it, this is just fluff

By ZAvalanche

May 4, 2007 7:53 AM | Link to this

Brendan, yeah, why not disclose the terms of the contract. I understand not saying what the $$ value is is but how long? Guess it doesn’t really matter anyway, they can fire him when they want. Like I have said, i have mixed feelings on Hartley, and I will reserve my thoughts on Don until after i see what he does in the next few months.

CM- thanks for the post, good to see what some of our buys are doing. I am really encouraged by Kari’s play, good to hear he is back on his horse.

I don’t know about any of you, but I keep seeing that other teams are agreeing to terms with some of their players while we are not and it makes me a bit nervous. CC, is this happeing with the Thrashers and they are not posting it, or are they still in “negotiations”? On the other hand, I guess job #1 was to get Don and Bob under contract first.

By Tony C.

May 4, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

I actually like the “That’s none of your business” response from Levenson. Sounds like he may have found at least one of his stones…I had doubts about anyone other than Belkin from the Spirit LLC. This whole lawsuit debacle seemed like a bunch of stoneless ninnys running amuck with my hometown NHL club. Still does-but now it seems like 1 or two of these guys may have one stone between them-still not standard issue, but better than none.

The quote in the story that I did not like was “We didn’t know if the fans in this city would support our team until this season-we just didn’t” WTF??? I must cal the BullSh!t on that. I was a kid when the Flames were here-and I remember that being the hardest ticket to get in town-even tougher than the fall Nascar race (and Petty was still racing then), tougher than a Flacons ticket-hell they were giving away Braves tix…That was before we had all these yankees move down. So you’re going to tell me that the team you bought, the one that set rookie-franchise attendance records in ‘99…the one that bought this silly-a* “Blueland Nation” promo idea-you’re going to tell me you didn’t know if the fans would support the team? Colour me indignant.

I know it’s nit-picky, but seriously, poor choice of words. You have a fan-base that was the only component of your “home-ice advantage” that actually handled their business like they belonged in the playoffs. I can’t tell you how proud I was of my fellow Thrasher fans-I haven’t been to an Atlanta pro sporting event since 2000 where the fans were a factor in the game. It was powerful enough that even the biggest NYR d!ck-rider in sports media, Linda Cohn, had to shout-out the fans….I suppose the “fury” that got unleashed was surprising to Levenson, but back-handed compliments don’t sell season tickets.

As far as signing DW to an extension, tell me who you’re going to get in here that you hoenstly think would (A) Take the job and (B) do a better job? I mean I’d love to get some of the juicier “name” GM types out there, but how many of those guys are going to knowingly step into the mess that DW would be leaving them? We don’t pick unti the 3rd round this year, and even given that this year’s draft isn’t as loaded as the past few, starting @ the 3rd round isn’t exactly “good”. Then we get to the pieces left. Granted there’s decent UFA/RFA money there, but DW definitely leveraged 2008 for 2007’s limited playoff run. So who who you get? I think it makes sense. Let DW pull off some sort of GM-magic via UFA and trades and if doesn’t work can him by Christmas. Same goes with hiBob. He may or may not have lost the room-if so I’m sure theres at least two or three good NHL-caliber coaches that would love a chance to polish the rough stone that is #17. Question is, wil DW be able to get enough pieces to create a decent setting around #17?

damn. apologies for the novella.

LET’S GO BLUE !!!

P.S. re-sing belly, dupes and X

By Tony C.

May 4, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this

Also, I would love to see us make a run @ Zubrus(spl?)…He’s big, nice hands, etc. I’m sure DC will be making a serious move to return him to the fold (especially since Pasha Datsyuk got locked up), but I’d like to see what #17 would do with him as his pivot. Think of the #17, Zubrus, Sim line. Stop and visualize. I mean at least we wouldn’t have to watch #17 have to wait a 3-count before the rest of his line made it into the zone…

Also I was thinking about DiPenta from the Ducks, he’s not getting a ton of TOI due to the Prongs-monster joining them (how big a stud on the ice is this guy? half-hour a game? scary, scores-ugh), but what I’ve seen of him in the past I think I remember a decent d-man…he’d be reasonably priced…plus hopefully he’s learned a thing or twon from Niedermeyer and the Prongs-monster. Just an idea.

By Brian

May 4, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Brendan - I didn’t say the players were throwing games either. I just said that just as a player/coach/gm doesn’t want to risk going to the next round just to prolong the series (to get that extra home game), the NHL execs would not risk a preferred team like the Sabres going to the next round to prolong the series.

It was just an analogy, no one is accusing anyone of throwing games. A few players might be taking dives, but that’s why we have the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty…

Also, I am sure that the length of the contracts for DW & BH will be released eventually, they might just be working out tweaks and don’t want to say anything yet…

By CM

May 4, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

Brendan - Ilya has 2 assists in 3 games and today has scored a goal in the 2nd period against Italy, who so far as managed a mere 7 shots to Russia’s 32. So far Italy has spent 24 minutes in the box. They’re in the 3rd now. The Italian netminder must be pretty good, that’s a lot of powerplays!

By CM

May 4, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

Russia just scored again and Ilya got the only assist.

By Brendan

May 4, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

CM, thanks for the updates. Brian, I hope you’re right. But I don’t know if what’s “preferred” … isn’t just “money.” Game Seven would be a sellout in NYC just as it will be in Buffalo. I just hope the video goal reviews get better. If they were just BETTER, we wouldn’t have conspiracy theories circulating about. Instead we have, “Hmmn, that Rangers goal should have counted in Game Three” and “C’mon, man. That shot by Briere was in.”

When Game Six is played, and there’s a video review, and it looks like they got it right, I’ll feel better about the whole process.

By Brendan

May 4, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

Bob, doesn’t this just appear to be “throwing your hands up in the air … ‘cuz ya don’t really know what to do” on behalf of the Atlanta Spirit Group, LLC?” I think they’re on “auto pilot” until this lawsuit is over.

“Why bring in new people only to have Belkin fire them, too” might be a contributing factor to these decisions. We’re in a bit of a Catch 22 situation. And have been for quite a while.

Don’s been improving as a GM, but if he cannot see that this team needs a youth movement and that Hartley isn’t the guy to do that, then he’s still being as ineffective as his drafting.

We’re stuck with “status quo.” And probably will be for a while longer. And there it is. At least the Spirit Group is willing to spend money and take gambles. Except when it comes to managerial decisions, like hiring and firing GM’s and coaches. But in their defense, their hands are probably a bit tied. If we Atlanta fans can just weather this storm, then real change can and will, eventually, occur. Even if DW signs guys to 2-year deals, there’ll only be a year left on those contracts when someone new potentially comes in.

ZAvalanche — I cannot understand why Don has not made any offseason moves. I think it shouldn’t be that hard to get a lot of last year’s players back. Like Sim, Slater, X, McCarthy, Larsen, Hnidy, and so forth. If he could just get moving on that, there’d be a good bit of continuity from the previous season. I understand if Belanger and Dupuis’ contracts take a bit longer, but hopefully those negotiations are well underway. Locking them up soon, and responsibly would probably set a lot of Thrasher fans’ minds at ease.

I think KT is gone, and probably so is Kozlov. But again, I would a 2-year deal with Kozlov can be salvaged. If it can’t, it can’t. I have to believe the price is going up, the longer GM’s wait. I cannot understand why qualifying offers haven’t already been tendered to McCarthy and Exelby. What’s the “risk” in that? Slater’s situation is different. But we covered that, too, in previous blogs.

By wh

May 4, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

ugh …. This guy is something else

OK - A couple of questions during the break, honest answers only - which means conspiracy theories and other nonsense do not apply:

1 - Does anyone really think that was a legitimate GK interference call? Brodeur got knocked off his skates the other night and took the loss. If the NHL is going to be the new “touch” league then it will become exceedingly difficult to watch. I really can’t see Miller impacted on this at all.

2 - Umm - Does Briere need to bring a friend in the crease on the shot off the post that did not go in? I mean TIVO this up. If you think Hull was in the crease than what do you make of this?

OT has not started yet so save the sour grapes commentary. The Rangers choose to ice in situations that are game altering so if they lose on this than so be it. Do not take this as defeatist - I wanted to see some “objective answers” prior to the result. Trust me, I have plenty of input on these questions already.

By wh

May 4, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

Guess I will need to see the responses after the Derby. 7&8 are the play in as yet unknown several varieties. Hoping to catch 3rd period Sunday (unless I get to watch what just transpired).

By Brendan

May 4, 2007 11:45 PM | Link to this

Wow, did the Sabres dodge a bullet tonight, Brian. I can see why some of you guys want Drury here in Atlanta next season. Sabres killed the penalty, incidently on Drury, and then got a PPG to win it. Afinagenov responds well to his benching in the previous game.

How frustrating for the Rangers. They have probably been the more dominant team through five games. They played 59:53 seconds of pretty good hockey.

New York’s not done yet, however. The NHL gives nothing for three (3) wins. Buffalo has some breathing room, though. They don’t have to win Game Six.

Hey, how ‘bout that video review call tonight, hmmn? They got it RIIIGHT! Yeaaaah!! It was a goal for the Rangers. Aaaaa-mazing. I have no conspiracy theory to offer on that goal, WH. I know you must feel disappointed to hear that.

By Legion of thrash

May 5, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

It would be great to get Drury, but unfortunately Hartley is the coach and Drury was one of the guys who was against him in colorado. It is a shame because he is the most clutch player I have ever seen. I wonder how many players outside of that colorado group would not play for Hartley because of his ways?

By Sage of Bluesland

May 5, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Don Waddell, the lone “architect” of the silly mess otherwise known as “Blueland” gets an extension…How pathetic. We waited eight years for that dismal showing just to squeek into the playoffs and then get completely shut down…

2nd oldest team in the league…Eight or so players even under contract for next year…A punk goalie who was annointed the promised-one and then dyes his hair prior to the postseason…Five-Year Plans and Building Through the Draft…”Leaders” such as Euros Hossa and Holik, who did a remarkable job of disappearing when it counted the most…

The AJC said it best in headline form: DO YOU BELIEVE IN DEBACLES? Yes—Yes I do, with Don Waddell running this team…He will run it completely into the ground.

I wonder what the next Five (well, really Eight) Year Plan will bring? Hopefully, some long-overdue accountability.

By ZAvalanche

May 5, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

LoT, yeah, i know that Drury doesn’t like Hartley, but that was also when he was a younger player. His Vets loved him. He gave then all the ice time they wanted and gave them practices off when requested. However, he was hard on Aebischer, Drury, McAmmond, Morris (who we got for Drury and Yelle) and Hejduk: basically most of the young guys. Would i LOVE to see Drury in Blueland? Hell yeah! But the fact is that any team with the cap room will offer him, probably, the league Max, so he is in the situation to chose which winning team he will go to. It is a pipe dream, but man, i hope i could happen.

That being said, I think a lot of the former colorado players would play for BH again, but only if the circumstances were right. He isnt a bad coach, he just got out-coached in the series. I cannot wait for Drury to light up the light in MSG tomorrow, that is going to be one hell of a game. NY will play lights-out, as it is an elimination game, but I hope to see that Buffalo will bring the killer blow. Should be awesome to see.

By Brian

May 5, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

ZAvalanche - so how long is it going to take for BH to p*ss off Sterling, Popovic & the slew of others coming up from Chicago this summer?

By Brian

May 5, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this

wh - So are you saying that Briere was in the crease or what?

By Rawhide

May 5, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

After the way Drury has played in the post-season, Buffalo would be idiots to let him go. Of course, I have NO idea what their cap situation is, but you just gotta think they are gonna do whatever is needed to keep him.

That being said,…….if he is out there to be had, I would love to see him in a Thrasher uni next fall.

Question is,….do you go after someone like that or two big name defenders. Lets be honest,…THAT is where our major problem is.

By Rawhide

May 5, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this

BRIAN - First of all,…you posts along with Brandans over the past week have really been great! A whole lot o learning can be found in both of your posts. Zav, WH, LoT much the same.

However, I think you and I have a disagreement in regards to how to deal with these young guys. I think BH’s approach is the right way to go with these young guys guys.

In all sports, young talent coming into “the bigs” have been caudled and pampered,….and so, they have thins sense of “intitlement”.

BH’s attitude of “your the player, I am the boss” is almost a breathe of fresh air in today’s sports world. Talent is great,…but attitude and work ethic is what keeps you up here.

Certain things HAVE to be earned and if you play sloppy or lazy hockey,….you should be sitting on the “bench of shame”.

Sometimes, out of love, the father has to discipline the son.

What you may refer to as p*ssing off a youngster, I may just see as getting his attention and re-focusing his efforts.

Regardless, my friend,…keep up the great post and keep the info coming,….hopefully we can get together again soon and hash it out further!!!

By Brian

May 5, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this

Rawhide - I agree with you in principle, but a father has to have patience which BH does not seem to have. As well, when is big daddy Hartley going to discipline Devo, Sutts and some of the older children? Do you only discipline your youngest child or all your boys?

By Rawhide

May 6, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

They both get punished when need be, but as they age the punishment changes. I mean, a swat on the back side to a 2 year old is common,…one would not do that to a 15 year old.

Same as when players age and mature and establish themselves. You don’t expect them to make the same mistakes at 32 that a 21 year old does. So the reaction to the mistakes depends on the maturity level.

By Rawhide

May 6, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Also, we are not privy o what goes on in the locker room and all practices. We don’t know if something has been building between the coach and player,…causing one “soft” play to cause the coach to feel the need to do something.

By Brendan

May 6, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Thank you, Rawhide. I appreciate what you’re saying about a coach letting a youngster know that he’s not about to become the next “coach killer,” a la Jaromir Jagr. But, at the same time, I think Brian’s point about “consistency” in applying his “methods” is also necessary.

I never saw DeVries sit. I never saw Sutton sit. On the other hand, McCarthy sat all the time. Popovic, though principally a call-up, sat a bit while he was here. Okayyyy, I’m not saying Mark Popovic was the solution to the blueline. Sheesh. What I am saying is the young talent seemed to take the lion’s share of the doghouse. This team needs to get younger. Harley benches “young superstars” with something approaching “frequency.”

He sits Kovy with the blink of an eye. He tells Lehtonen to improve his game, while playing Moose for three straight games. He QUITS on Lehtonen after ONE (1) playoff game. Then brings him back after losing both home games, ostensibly, to diffuse future criticism that he ABANDONED the “franchise goalie.” I mean, why ELSE did he go back to Lehtonen, after a stellar performance by Johan Hedberg in Game Two??? I’m jus’ sayin’. I’m jus’ sayin’.

Certainly, there’s room for argument and dissenting opinions. I never try to suppress anyone’s commentary. I’d love to hear someone who is “sincere and genuine” about offering their account of how and why Bob Hartley is a master of the goaltender rotation. I’ll listen. I swear to God, I’ll listen. I may not AGREE, but I’ll listen.

Let’s not forget, this Hartley is the same guy who yanked Moose to throw in a “cold” Lehtonen for a shootout. He’s the same guy who replied to “When is Lehtonen’s next start going to be?” as follows, “That’s up to Johan.” Yeah, the backup goalie decides who starts? The backup goalie could, theoretically, start all the remaining games on the schedule, provided he stays “hot” enough??? Where?? In “bizarro World,” where hamburgers eat people. These comments were in like December or January!!

There’s a word for this: absurdity. Now, I do realize that what Hartley probably meant was that he intended to stick with Johan for the immediate, “short-term” future. But that’s not what he said. You don’t challenge your franchise goaltender to play better, then sit him, and announce that the backup will play until futher notice. At least, not in my book.

By Rawhide

May 6, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

BRENDAN - I’m in BH’s corner,…still a fan. Of course, I am a bit biased because my son has attended his camps and I have always been impressed with the way he treats him and all the kids who attend. It is most impressive. That and every year he has been the Thrasher’s coach, the team is better then the previous year.

I also like him because he is a no-nonsence kinda coach. Hard work and 100% effort is all he expects.

Now, does he sometimes make me scratch my head? Sure. The goalie situation in the playoffs was odd to say the least. I thought putting Moose in game 2 was not the right call, (although it was the best goal-keeping he had in the 4 games),…but I thought it was equally wrong to put Kari BACK in for game 3 after what Moose did in game 2. But sometimes you have to go with your gut and roll the dice. He just came up snake-eyes last month.

Again, I have no problem with his discipline tactics,….however,…

The one thing that concerns me about BH is that he does not seem to trust the younger players. This is were I think Brian and others are right. This is what I think the deal is with McCarthy and Popovich.

Sometimes you need to know when to kick a youngster in the butt, and when to let them loose. He seems to know ho to do the former,…he needs to learn when to do the latter.

Oh, and for the record, I agreed at the time when he put in Kari for that shootout, (in Philly I think),….at least he was trying to bring some strategy to it. Had it worked, I’ll bet you dollars to donuts you would have seen it tried by other teams many times.

By Brendan

May 6, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

Switching goaltenders in the shootout is bound to work, if tried enough times. But it might be the sort of thing that invites injury. And what about the guy who just put in 65-minutes of work, only to watch the other guy get credit for the outcome?

Hartley became one of the stories of these playoffs. And not in the “good way.” Hartley has been here while things got incrementally better. But without Waddell’s trade deadline moves, this team might not have been in the playoffs. Or sneaked in at #8. This is a seventh season franchise. Being #8 might be good enough for some, just because it’s a playoff berth. But c’mon. Isn’t 8th pretty “modest” in terms of success? Luckily, we don’t have to have that conversation, since the Thrashers won the division to be the #3 seed. And the team that beat them (NYR)challenged the top seed (Buffalo) fairly substantially.

But I digress. Hartley’s back for another season. To quote Kovlachuk, “He’s the coach THIS year.” Let’s see where the team is at Christmas time. If it’s .500 or less, I wouldn’t be surprized to see a change. If they’re 6-8 games over .500, he’s goin’ anywhere.

By Bob

May 7, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

Hartley needs to go. It’s obvious. Just like it was obvious that Waddell hung on to Curt Fraser far too long, he’s doing the same with Hartley. Hartley is the sole reason this club isn’t still playing hockey this year.

To say that we’re going to go young, yet keep Hartley, who got fired in Colorado for the main reason that he couldn’t handle young players and the players revolted against him and quit listening to him (sound familiar?!?), is just folly.

I think the only reason they’re keeping him is because we’re handcuffed due to the ownership mess. Once that gets sorted out, you may see a change.

By Russian

May 7, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

I give them one more year. If we will get PO spot again for next year they are OK. If we are going to blow next year, both of them must go. Let’s see what happen in next year.

By wh

May 7, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

I wouldn’ want anyone to thik I ran away after defeat. Good series with thight games throughout. I miss the only game in pretty much the whole playoffs with some scoring after spending 3 weeks watching 2-1 OT from the west coast. I can’t resist - Sabres sure are fortunate to have survived the Pro Ranger conspiracy by the refs and NBC. Good year for NYR (despite that coach killer Jagr?)with young productive talent on the big club and solid prospects a year away for the 1st time I can remember in 30+ years of watching this team. I am curious if any of you cashed tickets for the Derby after I gave you a $100 Exacta for every $2 bet on Friday Night? USA-Canada today - loser gets the blue haired goalie. Note to Kari (should you start)- these guys aren’t Italy.

By Rawhide

May 7, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

WH - Your Rangers have nothing to be ashamed of, that’s for sure. They fought the best team in the league with everything they had.

Funny thing, these playoffs. Friday night the rangers are 7.7 seconds away from taking a 3-2 lead in the series and heading back to MSG.

Less then 48 hours later, they are eliminated.

I will say that I was impressed with the way the Ranger fans stayed and cheared the team with one more “Let’s Go Rangers” chant as the teams shook hands. And then the Blueshirts gave ‘em one more Broadway Salute.

Class is always something that should be applauded.

By ZAvalanche

May 7, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Im with Rawhide on this. The Rangers should not be ashamed. Yeah, i was going for Buffalo, but man was that a great series. The 2nd and 3rd periods of that last game were just amazingly fun to watch. Yeah, you didn’t get past Buffalo, you all played very well, and how about your goalie and some of those rookies! I wish we were in that position.

How cool was it that the fans were going nuts even after the loss? Pretty cool. Guaranteed that if San Jose somehow take Detroit in 7 games, the fans in “hockey town” are out the door when the final horn blows.

By Brendan

May 7, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

Rawhide, the Sharks were 0:33 away from victory, and a 3-1 series lead, in Game Four vs. Detroit. They gave up a goal with 0:03.4 left in the 2nd period of that game. Then lost in overtime. At home. Man, that’s rough. To blow a 2-0 lead, especially THAT way, in a 2-1 series. Now look at ‘em, down 3-2, with the sword of Damacles dangling above their heads tonight.

Detroit fans will surely be angry if they fail to at least reach the Conference Finals after being a #1 seed, for the 2nd year in a row. Or is it 3rd year in a row? I can’t remember.

Hey RUSS, aren’t you 11-0 right now? You just need San Jose to win to be 12-0, right?

By Brendan

May 7, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

Rangers fans have nothing to hang their heads about. In two weeks, they’ll feel really about their season. Coach Renney deserves a raise and a contract extension!

By wh

May 7, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this

I have been throwing dirt on the Red Wings since the last quarter of the season. I thought Flames would do something on the road … what a joke and that they would be more physical and had better goal tending. Right on. Then I thought the physically imposing Sharks would overwhelm them … ummm not yet. Lidstrom is awesome and they do have some talented forwards as well. Hasek has never lost a playoff series as a Redwing (5-0). My new thought is they will go to the Cup if they get out of this series. At one point this year - particularly before Pronger kept getting hurt - it would have been impossible to bet against the Ducks. Watching them in the playoffs I just don’t know that they have enough scoring. JS is great but you can’t win every game 2-1 all the way to winning the Cup. I have no opinion on the east - Was it all Brodeur being awful in that series? Senators still have plenty of fire power, you could make a case for Alfredsson being the most under appreciated player in the NHL. Miller is playing great and I don’t think we have seen Sabres best effort yet. Should be a good one.

By Brendan

May 7, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

Ya know which Ranger I though played well? Michal Roszival. Last offseason, I hoped Waddell could have snared him in some sort of trade, since he was an RFA. (Can’t sign ‘em away, that just about never happens.) He logs good minutes. Makes intelligent plays with the puck. Decent enough hitter. Pfft, what more do ya want?

Plus, didn’t he have an overtime tally? I think it was Game Three. Talk about a “pressure cooker.” Without that goal, the Rangers are down, 3-0, after outplaying the Sabres for two of those three games. How much more demoralizing can it get?

Buffalo got it done, which is the bottom line. But the Rangers played them tough. It could have gone the other way. So, will Ottawa play “copycat” and try what the Rangers did? Or, will they try to skate with Buffalo? And get into the “run and gun” type of action?

By wh

May 7, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

I think Senators can afford to open it up more the NYR - They still have really good defensemen even without Big Z. I don’t think they want the run and gun tempo but they can play more uptempo the NYR and still be effective defensively. Emery? Who knew. I personally thought he was a stiff and that Gerber would be the starter off of his play in Turin. He has played well all year. You know what’s funny, your rozival comment jogged my memory on this, Everyone points to the Stefan pick as a blown opportunity but it was really missing out on Phaneuf. Of course Central scouting and others had him and Coburn rated pretty evenly so you can’t fault the pick so much as the outcome. But he is a great PP QB w/ a bomb and is obviously the best young D’men in the NHL

By Brendan

May 8, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this

Phaneuf would have been sweet. He was the 3rd-rated D-man of the 2003 Draft. Had the Predators selected Coburn, Atlanta probably would have taken Ryan Sutter, the #1 rated blueline prospect. Still leaving Phaneuf at #9 for Calgary. D’oh.