Thrashers

By chris

December 1, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this

Boston is stronger defensively, but now has a glaring weakness at center. I am STUNNED that they traded Thornton like this. I also cannot believe they did not drum up a bidding war before moving a player of his ability. This trade seemed to be so secretive that most GMs weren’t even aware it was happening until after the fact. If you’re going to move a guy like that, why not make it public and see what kind of offers you get? Boston gets the bad end of this deal, hands down.

By Russ

December 1, 2005 04:25 PM | Link to this

I think San Jose got the better of this deal, but I don’t think it was totally one-sided like most comments I have been hearing. Stuart is a very good, young defensemen and Sturm is off to a slow start this season, but he has proven in the past that he can be a solid goal scorer. Boston also saved money on this trade which they can use in the future. Thornton is definitely a star player with the potential to get even better. Therefore, I think San Jose came out better, but not in a landslide.

Now, about the Thrashers. I would think Lehtonen and possibly Dunham should be close to coming back. Does anyone have any updates on the oft-injured goalies?

By dj

December 1, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this

Boston got the better deal (3 players for less money then 1) but San Jose will be the better team. They now have two solid centers (Thronton and Marleu) and Marleu will now be able to get a better matchup for him. I expect to see a bigger turnaround in San Jose then in Boston.

By Brendan

December 1, 2005 05:20 PM | Link to this

When I look back on the 2004 Western Conference Finals between San Jose and Calgary, there is no doubt in my mind that Wayne Primeau and Brad Stuart were “key contributors” during their playoff run. The losses of Vinnie Damphousse, Owen Nolan, and Mak Rathje in recent years probably have taken their toll on San Jose.

But, San Jose “ought” to be a pretty decent team. Nabokov in net. They have Patrick Marleau, Marcel Goc, Kyle McLaren, Nikos Dimitrakos, and now Joe Thornton.

I don’t know exactly why San Jose has struggled this season. On paper, they were a very good team.

But I still think Boston got the better of this deal.

This will be controversial, but what has Boston done since they drafted Thornton 1st overall in 1997? Aside from being bounced by the Habs a couple of times in the 1st round.

The Bruins have been a good team on paper for many years. What do they have to show for it? That division title in 2004?

I had the Bruins as the 2005 Northeast Division Champs in preseason. They’re in the cellar!!

Thornton is overpaid. It’s time to stop talking about his potential and start looking at what he’s actually done.

In 2004, when the Habs rallied from down 3-1 to take the series, Thornton didn’t have a single goal. Well, I’d have to check the 3rd period of Game Seven. He might have snuck one in.

In any event, one (1) goal in a seven game series, if you’re PAID like Joe Thornton, is unacceptable performance.

Maybe Boston’s “system” didn’t jive with his style, or something. I’ve never been “wowed” by Joe Thornton. His actual value should be about $3 million. Maybe $3.5 million. Otherwise, it’s too much.

Maybe San Jose’s system will favor his style of play. Who knows!!

But Joe can’t really think that this was a surprise, can he? He’s one of the most underperforming Bruins in recent playoff history.

His numbers look good so far in the “new” NHL, but so are everyone elses!

There’ll be double digit numbers of 50-goal scorers.

The Bruins are getting Brad Stuart, Wayne Primeau, and Marco Sturm, while saving $1 million, and a little more than that in 2006-07.

It’s time for Joe to live up to his 1st overall selection status. This trade to San Jose is probably just what he needed.

Another thing strikes me, however. When our GM, Don Waddell, said he was trying to negotiate the trade for Heatley, he didn’t want anyone to know he was shopping him.

Why not??

Why not announce it to the world, and start the bidding???????

And don’t trade him unless you hear an offer that makes you feel “froggy enough” to jump.

I’m gonna guess that Don didn’t want to give the appearance that there was something “wrong” with Heatley, or that he was “desperate” to unload him.

Well, Don still holds the cards. He doesn’t have to trade Heatley at all. And if he doesn’t like any of the offers, he holds on to the player.

I’ve heard another buzz about it, however. It’s dangerous speculation, but Don didn’t want to “go public on a Heatley trade” in hopes of not offending the season ticket holders. Heatley’s face appeared on every single piece of Thrashers promotional material.

If Don announces that he’s shopping Heatley, there might be some backlash from the season ticket holders.

He still shoulda done it, anyway. He could have started a bidding war over Heatley.

By sodapants

December 1, 2005 06:46 PM | Link to this

ther resason there wasn’t a bidding war is because no one really cares…. or can AFFORD to care! Get used to the age of the salary cap, folks….

Thornton never lived up to it in Boston… lets be honest. He’s a special player, for sure, but he’s not ‘the answer’ for Boston at this point.

San Jose?? They just won their division.

By Brendan

December 1, 2005 10:40 PM | Link to this

I hope San Jose just won their division. They are a team that has been close to reaching some of its goals in recent years.

Back to Boston, I did some research on them since 1997, when they drafted Thornton 1st overall. Here it is.

1997 - missed playoffs, finished 6th in Northeast division. Picked 1st in the draft; selected Joe Thornton.

1998 - Lost in first round to Washington Capitals, 4-2; finished 2nd in NE division

1999 - Defeated Carolina 4-2, in opening round; lost to Buffalo, 4-2, in 2nd round; finished 3rd in NE division

2000 - Missed playoffs; finished 5th NE division

2001 - Missed playoffs; finished 4th NE division

2002 - Lost to Montreal in the opening round; won NE division (The scapegoat for loss was Byron Dafoe, who remained unsigned until Atlanta came along and signed him.) Boston was the #1 seed in 2002, upset by #8 Montreal.

2003 - Lost to New Jersey, 4-1; finished 3rd in NE division

2004 - Lost to Montreal, 4-3; squandered 3-1 series lead; won NE division, was #2 seed in the Eastern Conference. (Thornton largely blamed for the loss, no goals in the seven game series.)

So, to recap the “Thornton era” in Boston, the Bruins missed the playoffs twice and won their division twice, and were the #1 seed one time. They advanced into the 2nd round only once. It’s impossible to lay “all the blame” on one player, but Boston management clearly felt that Thornton had been there for all of it. They felt they needed to shift gears. Some will call this decision an “overreaction” to a poor start to a season.

Well, if you look at it in “2005 terms only,” it is. But if you examine the Thornton years in their “totality of circumstance,” you can see a clear pattern of underachievement for the organization, given its roster and talent level.

Was Thornton alone to blame? I doubt it. But there is also no denying that in 2004, he was “expected to lead them.” He didn’t.

Boston’s been waiting to reap the “dividends” of the Thornton acquisition.

Two division titles? One appearance in the 2nd round? Bounced by the #8 seed and #7 seeds in the 1st round? Worse yet, by your “arch rival,” the Montreal Canadiens!

I don’t blame Boston for making this move. It’s been festering for some time now.

And they got good players. Not marquee players. But “depth matters” in hockey. And not overpaying for players matters.

By BarryJ

December 2, 2005 08:07 AM | Link to this

“ther resason there wasn’t a bidding war is because no one really cares…. or can AFFORD to care! Get used to the age of the salary cap, folks….”

OK, I’ll try to interpret this scribble as best as possible. Let’s see, Boston gets three players for an unimpressive Joe Thornton…How many would an All-Pro in the making get (i.e. Dany Heatley)?

Soda, you simply must stop stating things you cannot prove at all—it diminishes your already miniscule credibility even further. HOW DO YOU KNOW THERE WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN A BIDDING WAR FOR HEATLEY’S SERVICES????

I think Brendan has a point and I’m STILL not happy with the deal-making our brilliant GM did in the cover of night. There is more to the story than we know about—and I’m still extremely upset to first hear of the situation AFTER it already happened. Then to hear organizational shills like Kincade (680 The Fan) state, “I LOVE this trade!”…Yeah, John, I’d like to run that statement through a lie-detector…

Brendan’s point is simple. The fact that San Jose just completely overpaid for a relative disappointment PROVES (to me) that Donny got “Hossa’d” even more than I previously suspected.

For an organization who covets my money more than anything, I dare say it was kept hush-hush so as not to anger the constituents—thus leading to even more empty seats in the figurative joke otherwise known as “Blueland”.

Well, I’m still angry about it. There is more to this story than we know about, as there are a couple of things that simply don’t add up. It will take more than Soda’s barely literate scrawl to convince me otherwise (sorry, I’m just that way about evidence, propaganda, etc.).

$6 million per year for Hossa? $2.5 million for DeVries? Cutting and running at the first ‘request’ by a player? Pahleeze. The excuses for our brilliant GM’s poor decisions must stop.

By Brendan

December 2, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

Russ, the last time I heard of a “return date” for Lehtonen was two weeks ago, and the date suggested was December 9th. But I’ve heard nothing since that time. It very well could be revised again.

Chris, the first blog post, suggested that Boston’s GM should have started a bidding war on Thornton. I want Chris to get credit for starting this excellent debate/discussion.

I agree with Chris’ post. And I agree with BarryJ that there was something less than HONEST going on behind the scenes with the Heatley trade, conducted in secret.

At www.cbs.sportsline.com’s “rumor mill,” San Jose’s former GM, Lombardi, is looking for work.

Are there any long-time Sharks fans out there who can tell us if this Lombardi would be something the Thrashers should be considering?

I don’t know anything about him, that’s why I’m asking. We might be better off with Don Waddell.

In case anyone was wondering, December 19-21 will mark “six weeks” since the Thrashers ownership group said it would “reevaluate” the Thrashers situation. The sentiment expressed was such that if the Thrashers remained six games under .500 at that juncture, that “there would be consequences for that.” And words much stronger than “concerned” would be uttered to describe the Thrashers season.

Personally, I think that’s a lot of smoke without any fire. Don Waddell will not likely be blamed for goaltender injuries. Nor is Waddell responsible for excessive pentalty minutes.

I think Waddell will escape again.

I just hope and pray that “if changes are made,” that Coach Hartley not be made the scapegoat. Firing Hartley would be a huge mistake.

If someone must be fired, and I don’t think that will happen, it should be Don Waddell.

Not all of Don’s decisions are bad. He’s made some good ones, like Savard, Bondra, not trading picks away when Heatley and Kovalchuk were available as top picks.

He could have easily shopped either for a king’s ransom. But he didn’t. It was a GOOD DECISION.

Waddell landed Exelby from the 8th round and Pasi Nurminen from the 6th round of the draft.

But someone has to answer for the Heatley trade, the acquisitions of Damian Rhodes, Byron Dafoe, Jani Hurme, perpetually injured, and so forth. He brought in Uwe Krupp, who played all of three games.

He traded Pascal Rheaume to the Devils for a draft pick, then inexplicably gave the draft pick BACK to them. He shipped Milan Hnilicka to the L.A. Kings and paid half his salary to play for someone else.

Shean Donovan went to the Western Conference Finals with the Calgary Flames. Rheaume and Jiri Slegr won Stanley Cups with other teams. Steve Staios left and became Captain of the Oilers. Andrew Brunette was a key ingredient in the Minnesota Wild’s 2003 playoff run to the Western Conference Finals. Peter Buzek left out of frustration with the direction of the team. Ilja Nikulin, a 2nd round pick from either 1999 or 2000, opted to stay in Russia rather than sign with the Thrashers. Libor Ustinov? Where’s he? Another unsigned pick.

Early on, the most successful player Atlanta had was Donald Audette. He was lost to Montreal without a fight, where he scored overtime winners in the playoffs for the Habs.

I’m not saying Don absolutely has to go. But I’m not comfortable with Don making our 2006 Draft selections. He might trade down again to stockpile 2nd round picks. Or he might trade away a lottery-protected pick for Ed Belfour and Eric Lindros, or something like that. Belfour is 40 years old, and has a “wonky” back, to quote the Canadian media. Hall of Famer? Sure. Worth a lottery-protect 1st round pick? No. I don’t want anymore “30-something” year-old stars from yesteryear.

Can we be sure Don wouldn’t do something like that? Who knows!! Kari Lehtonen’s injury was revealed to be over “10-years old,” reaggravated, and never corrected.

What if Lehtonen is a “total bust?” God, I hope not. We really can’t afford that. We really can’t.