AJC > Sports > Tech > Blog > Archives > 2007 > November > 07 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USWhat’s up, or down, with Duke?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Less to talk about here today on Tech than on the next opponent: Duke.
Why do the Blue Devils stink so bad? It’s one thing to stink, but to routinely be terrible is another. Why does it happen? And don’t just trot out tough admissions standards. That’s a copout at Duke just as it is everywhere the excuse is used.
One theory I’ve heard recently (not for the first time) is that the football team does not get the same leeway in recruiting that the mens basketball team or the womens basketball team get when it comes to marginally-qualified student-athletes. Now that’s more plausible, though perhaps not enough to completely explain the huge disparity between the Blue Devils and the rest of the ACC.
Good luck proving or disproving that theory without SAT scores, transcripts and a look at how often each coach succeeds in pleading his/her case for exemptions to the school’s admission standards.
I know this from having seen Duke’s stadium (without yet seeing a game in it): that place doesn’t help recruiting. I don’t know much about football facilities up there otherwise, though. It probably doesn’t encourage prospects to know that they’re going to be not second-class citizens in the sports world at Duke, but more like third-class. Mens and womens hoops trump all.
That said, it’s certainly possible to succeed at a high level in both football and basketball. See Florida, Ohio State, Texas, etc. (easy enough to add to this list, like LSU, which was in the Final Four a couple years ago, and so on).
All I know for sure is Duke’s not good at all in football. As it’s not a public institution, and therefore not subject to freedom of information requests, it’s not an easy thing to explain, unless maybe you’re John Feinstein. John, what say you?
Matt
Comments
By GT in AL
November 7, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this
They weren’t too bad when the ol’ ball coach was there. Trouble is a school with money, namely Florida, recognized the coaching talent and stole him away. Duke hasn’t really been the same since. Didn’t work out too bad for UF, did it?
By Kugel
November 7, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this
Hi Matt,
Steve Spurrier won at Duke, so that tells you that it CAN be done.
I’m a Tech Alum and have been following Tech football since 1981, when I first enter school there. Ted Roof was and is one of my all-time favorite players at GT. He is a great man of Family, Faith, and Character. Unfortunately, he is NOT a very good Div.1A Head Football Coach. The kids he recruits love him and play there butts off for him, but CTR just is not a very good HC.
That said, He found a way to be us there, before, but I sincerely hope it does not happen again!
By gt2010
November 7, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this
its hard to see where your running when your nose is so stuck up.
By Horace Hill
November 7, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this
WHO CARES
By Jolly Good Fellow
November 7, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this
Take it from a guy with a Duke graduate degree: many factors are at play here. A terrible stadium without cash-making luxury boxes and concourses that serve as a parking lot during the wee; a snotty student body that gets drunk at tailgates but never attends the games; and a general lack of institutional respect for the game. Duke will never devote the energy and resources necessary to field a decent football team.
As for how the school can succeed at basketball, part of it is the self-selection of the type of recruits who go there. Coach K does not put up with undisciplined players, and high school kids know this. Any recruits who may not quite be there academically can usually get by on character points. And it’s a lot easier to ask for one or two exemptions for the program that pulls the weight of the entire athletic department than for a dozen or so exemptions for the money-losing football program.
By Richard Nix
November 7, 2007 6:29 PM | Link to this
Don’t give on the season yet they still have to face Notre Dame. Just ask Navy
By Jim W
November 7, 2007 6:31 PM | Link to this
Why bother trying to be good. It’s expensive and goes against the grain of the school culture. No point in spending more on football, when it will generate almost no additional revenue. They already get their cut of the TV revenues and bowl games that other conf schools play in.
By will
November 7, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this
What stinks are diploma mills where $$$ from professional minor-league football with million dollar coaches are NUMBER ONE and education is number 100. Football’s a bullying stupid game that’s corrupted higher education—so the mark of a good universty is usaally “stinking” on the gridiron.
By College Football Fan
November 7, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this
Why is Duke so bad? Because they have a Tech grad for a coach.
By LongBeachJacket
November 7, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this
A few observations:
Duke invested a lot of money a few years ago to build an entire football only facility. It’s called the Yoh Center. It’s pretty impressive. Similar to Edge or Wardlow at Tech.
I’m really not sure they have an excuse not to be competitive. Look at Wake Forest. Wake’s student body is about 1/2 the size of Duke’s. It is a tough academic school as well. No “free lunch” for athletes. Wake manages to be competitive in football under Jim Grobe. ACC Champs. Amazing! They are also usually pretty good in Basketball, last few seasons an exception and they are always very good in Baseball as well.
Wake Forest’s ability to field top level teams in Football, Basketball and Baseball (and Golf) absolutely ELIMINATE the excuses that any other school may try to make.
As one of the above bloggers, I also have experienced Duke as a grad student.
I would say that there is a subtle or not so subtle insinuation on campus that all begins and ends with BASKETBALL.
As long as the Alumni are happy with all the good vibes they get from the hoopsters and not significantly irritated by the weak performances year in and year out in football, it will not change. That’s a shame, because it would be great for the Conference and College Football for Duke to do what Wake has done.
They have some tradition going back to Wallace-Wade and some good teams from the 60s.
It simply boils down to this: The Alumni base is not sufficiently committed.
At GA Tech, football is such an important aspect of our school tradition that we don’t tolerate non-competitiveness and we yearn for a return to consistent greatness…a goal that seems, however, somewhat elusive (1990 being the exception).
By jabster
November 7, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this
Will:
Chew on this: From US News, top national universities:
19, Notre Dame (ignore this year)
21, Cal (AP#24)
(tie) 25, UCLA and Michigan (AP#13)
27, Southern Cal (AP#12)
30, Wake (AP#34)
(tie) 35, Ga. Tech and Boston College (AP#8)
38, Wisconsin (AP#32)
42, Washington
44, Texas (AP#15)
48, Penn State (AP#29)
49, Florida (AP#17)
57, Ohio State (AP #1)
(tie) 59, Rutgers, Pitt, UGA (AP#10)
By Yellowblood
November 7, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this
Duke’s problem is the same as ours. To many students who like Tickle Piling.
By RAMBLE ON!
November 7, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this
If you’ve ever been to a game a Duke, you’d understand.
By pwusser8
November 8, 2007 8:05 AM | Link to this
Correct Yellowblood, my daddy and I love Chan, and we love tickle piles. Don’t we daddy?
By bh
November 8, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this
What? Duke’s footbal team still running? What a disgrace!!!! They should just dismiss the football.
By afewgood
November 8, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this
hi jabster: is that ranking a joke? Does it include party-ing? last time i check our Graduate CE is top 5 in the nation. I beleve not lacking top 10 programs in GT.
By mike
November 8, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this
I wonder if it wasn’t for their basketball program, would Duke be asked to leave the ACC, ie Temple and the Big East. I think they have a few hardcore football fans and this has to be killing them. College football is king and the money maker. Duke doesn’t see it. What an odd waste of an effort. Often thought that Duke should play in the Southern Conference. Never know when or if their golden egg “basketball program” might go through some bad years. Then what do they do?
By Josh GT
November 8, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this
afewgood,
Overall, we are 35th in the nation, but you are correct the CE is in the top 5. The low overall ranking is due to the fact that we do not offer a broad range of disciplines (at least not compared to most schools). Also, we’re the 9th best public school in the nation.
By Chris
November 8, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this
afewgood:
That’s the overall university rankings, not individual program or engineering rankings. Our industrial engineering program is #1 and has been for several years, and nearly all of our engineering programs rank in the top 10. I think Computer and Nuclear are the only two not in the top 10.
What drops our standing in those rankings is the fact that we’re not a university, per se. We have engineering, sciences, business, and no liberal arts to speak of. Sure, there’s International Affairs, HTS, and STAC, but that’s about it as far as non business or technical degrees go.
By Villa Rica DAWG
November 8, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this
Why is Tech so Bad?
By Villa Rica DAWG
November 8, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this
You would think that the recent years of mediocrity present in Tech’s football program would instill some degree of humility into the fans. NOPE, “Let’s go steal VT’s game jerseys before they annihilate us!”
By jabster
November 8, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
One other thing that dings Tech in the US News rankings is its poor retention rate (among the entire student body, not just athletes), which is horrid compared to its peers. Tech could easily move up 10-15 notches if we could improve that.
Villa Rica Dog: Did the Goff and Donnan years instill some degree of humility in the Bulldog Nation? Didn’t think so…
By Villa Rica DAWG
November 8, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this
Yes (I’m being serious)
By RAMBLE ON!
November 8, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this
villa Rica fleabag Football last 3-4 months. We understand that there are more things in life…like work, and the other sports we beat you in. If we only had someone who could coach a QB, we’d take that from you too.
So, having to share the same state with the mutt nation, how can we have any humility?
We are just better all-round human beings than you. Deal with it, and stay off our blog.
By Gt fan
November 8, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this
Hey villia rica dawg… I guess just beating a lowly vandy team and jumping around on their logo after the game shows alot of humility doesn’t it. Then the whole team runs onto the field to celebrate a touchdown showing even more humility. UGA fans are the last people that should be talking about humility.
By GT
November 8, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this
The fact that SOS did well at Duke tells me more about Spurrier than it does about Duke. SOS has to have some sophistication to handle a place like Duke with its Ivy League type administration. Coach K has some of the same qualities though I can’t stand the sight of him. You need a sophisticate to explain what he is trying to do for the football team. You get some fat guy with tobacco rolling down his face and anything he ask for scares the hell out of the administration. They think he is going to multiply into 100 fat guys with low IQs. Notice most of Duke basketball players don’t blow it up in the NBA, they are good college players. There is a place in football for that same type player, you just have to find a coach that knows how to use them. The little receiver that the New England Pats picked up last year is a perfect example. Nobody wanted him out of high school and he got only one 1A scholarship offer from Texas Tech two days after signing day because they had a guy drop out that had signed. The guy is one of the best clutch receivers in football. Look at most of Spurrier’s all American quarterbacks. They aren’t near as good in the pros. He knows how to use players, Duke needs a guy like that coaching them. Good with the administration and can see things others don’t.
By Captain Truth
November 8, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this
Does Tech still have a football team??? Tech/Duke baby! i bet there will NFL scouts crawling all over the place! HAHAHAHAHA!
By Villa Rica DAWG
November 8, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this
NERDS!
By Gt fan
November 8, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this
REDNECKS!
By Alan
November 8, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this
Choice, Nesbitt, and Dwyer in the wishbone. Why not. We can’t pass anyway.
By Mirna from smyrna
November 8, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this
Well said Villa Rica DAWG!!!!
Don’t let these goobers get to ya old boy!
Gq dawgs….
By GTech
November 8, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
Gq dawgs…isn’t that an oxymoron or just plain moron?
By Dukealum
November 8, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this
Winning solves everything. It even fills up an antiquated stadium like Wallace Wade. Losing, unfortunately, is contagious. Do it long enough and you can’t get recruits. If you can’t get recruits, your coaches will fail. If coaches continually fail, the program gets into a nasty cycle.
It will take an extraordinary coach to overcome the: lack of a local fan base, lack of alumni interest, small student body, old stadium and yes, sorry to say it, admissions standards. Scoff all you want, but middle of the road SAT scores at most schools will put you at the very tail end at Duke, and that means that the kids either aren’t going to get in or they aren’t going to stay in school. It’s just a fact.
By Pitbull
November 8, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this
Will Big Boie be performing at Tech’s next home game? He’s better than the Jackets, and he really sucks.
By WFC
November 9, 2007 8:45 AM | Link to this
I love college sports but unlike Villa Rica Dawg, I realize that there is more to life than that. Maybe if I lived in Villa Rica (I’ve been there) I would agree with him. My son will be attending Duke in 2009 and it would be nice if the football team was decent. However, when it’s all said and done, he will have a Duke degree and good prospects in life. I can guarantee that he won’t be living in Villa Rica regardless of how the football and basketball teams do. I live in John’s Creek. Check it out sometime.
By Fire Chan Gailey!
November 9, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
The real question is why is Chan Gailey so bad?
http://www.firechangailey.com
By Grant Field
November 9, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this
This blog is the most ridiculous that I’ve ever seen; I’ve seen things like would Duke be in the ACC if it wasn’t for men’s B.B. , to Duke should play in the Southern Conference. For you idiots let me point out just a few things; every year there is this SEARS Cup that rates every D1 school’s total athletic program; all sports and for the past 7-8 years Duke has been in the top 12, made #5 one year. And they get graded down for their sorry FB team. They are always either #1,2 or 3 in the ACC ( with UNC and UVA) so if the ACC started dumping schools, FSU, Miami and Va Tech would be long gone before Duke because they bring very little other than FB. And that antiquated FB stadium, it just happens to be the ONLY stadium in the U.S. that has hosted a Rose Bowl other than the Rose Bowl in Pasadena. ACC FB titles, still to this day Duke would be in the top 3 alltime. Duke was a FB power for many years. So before you people keep talking about something you know absolutely nothing about, read and become educated. You’ve convinced me that many villages are w/o their idiots today.
By LongBeachJacket
November 9, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this
Grant Field. You must not have read the entire blog. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and some are actually based on first-hand knowledge…