AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2007 > December > 28 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.US‘85 Bears would be tough for Pats
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Jeff Schultz
When it comes to defining greatness, at least in comparing teams from different eras, there are only two absolutes:
It can’t be done.
Of course it can be done, stupid. Just ask any former player.
“Well, you know what I’m going to say,” said Mike Singletary, the former linebacker for the 1985 Chicago Bears. “Of course I’m biased. But I think we would’ve done pretty well against New England.”
The Patriots are 15-0. Barring a sudden show of sympathy from Bill Belichick or a career day from Eli Manning, they figure to complete an undefeated regular season today against the New York Giants. Three more wins in the postseason, and Boston sports fans, reserved sort that they are, will start screaming something about old pansies like Ray Nitschke.
But New England’s greatest accomplishment isn’t necessarily this team. It’s this era. San Francisco and Dallas manipulated the salary cap with inflated bonuses, but they paid for it years later. The Patriots are the first NFL team to excel at football’s version of “Moneyball.” In 2001, they signed 20 mid-level free agents, giving modest bonuses or none at all. They’ve let free agents walk. It has been the blueprint for three titles — and counting.
They have the best coach (Belichick), the best architect (Scott Pioli), the best quarterback (Tom Brady). Then Oakland gift-wrapped Randy Moss for a fourth-round pick. So not fair.
But then, fortunately for the Pats, they don’t have to play the ‘85 Bears. So sayeth Singletary.
“We would’ve pressured the quarterback and stopped the run, and really made Brady do some things,” he said. “You can’t let Brady dictate things. We would’ve taken him out of his comfort zone.
“They would’ve had trouble with our defensive line. Those guys took it as a challenge every week: We’ll get the quarterback. They would’ve had a lot of problems with [Dan] Hampton.”
We’ll have to assume. It’s all on paper.
With that in mind, here’s one guy’s top five, knowing it can’t possibly please everybody, particularly fans from Washington, Dallas or Pittsburgh, one of whom I’m married to. But she’ll always have Franco.
1. 1989 49ers (17-2): Imagine. San Francisco’s best team came after Bill Walsh’s retirement. George Seifert let Mike Holmgren run the offense. Good choice. Joe Montana’s backup was a future Hall of Famer, Steve Young. Jerry Rice is in the best-player-ever argument. The fullback (Tom Rathman) had 76 catches. The defense nobody talked about included Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley and some cocky kid, Bill Romanowski. The two losses came by five points. The postseason was their own little scorched earth: 41-13 (Vikings), 30-3 (Rams), 55-10 (Broncos). I surrender.
2. 1985 Bears (18-1): They recorded the “Super Bowl Shuffle.” I guess the studio was booked in September. The Bears won their first 12 games (the last three by 104-3). They had the MVP (Walter Payton) and the defensive player of the year (Singletary). The front four: Hampton, Steve McMichael, Richard Dent and a Fridge. In the Super Bowl (46-10), New England QB Tony Eason looked like a Shih Tzu staring at a Winnebago.
3. 2007 Patriots (15-0, so far): They won their first eight games by 24, 24, 31, 21, 17, 21, 21 and 45. But they’ve looked dangerously close to mortal in the second half (wins over the Colts, Eagles and Ravens came by a total of 10 points). Their defense really isn’t that good, but in the salary cap era, you pay the price somewhere. And when Brady is the quarterback and Donte’ Stallworth is the No. 3 receiver, behind Moss and Wes Welker, does it matter that the defense is average?
4. 1972 Dolphins (17-0): The team gets knocked for playing a soft schedule (only two regular-season opponents had winning records). But Miami won eight of 14 games by at least two touchdowns, including 52-0 over the Patriots. It also played most of the year without starting QB Bob Griese. His replacement, Earl Morrall, 38, was acquired from the Giants for $100. The Fins were so unappreciated even that season that they went into the Super Bowl 16-0 … as underdogs. But they beat the Redskins 14-7, and as Larry Csonka said, “Perfection ends a lot of arguments.”
5. 1962 Packers (14-1): Going old school. This team had 11 future Hall of Famers, including coach Vince Lombardi. It outscored teams 415-148 (the first three games: 100-7). Bart Starr, Jim Taylor, Max McGee on offense. Nitschke, Willie Wood, Herb Adderly on defense. The Pack won the title game over the Giants in New York, where the 20-degree reading didn’t factor in the 35-mph winds.
Admit it: You want to run through a wall right now, don’t you?
Permalink | Comments (56) | Post your comment | Categories: Falcons / NFL, Jeff Schultz
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By Go Pack Go
December 28, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this
ummmm…im a packers fan, but THERE WAS NO SUPER BOWL IN 1962!!! it was called the NFL championship…tell your copy editor to get their facts together, schultz
By Ken Stallings
December 28, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this
“New England QB Tony Eason looked like a Shih Tzu staring at a Winnebago.”
Great line! That’s a winner!
Can’t really pick apart your list other than to say somewhere along the line one of those Steelers teams needed to crack the list. Where? Well with apologies to Vince Lombardi, perhaps the Steelers needed to go in the five slot.
But, it’s a good discussion point.
By Sick and tired
December 28, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this
How much is a billion?
A billion seconds ago it was 1959.
A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.
A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.
A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth on two feet.
A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate our government is spending it.
Time for real change yet?
www.RonPaul2008.org
By dewitt
December 28, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this
you got to be kidding me. None of the 70’s Steelers’ teams makes the top 5. I dont think so…No team in any era could have defeated bradshaw, swann, stallworth, mean joe green, lc greenwood, jack lambert, jack ham, rocky blair, and franco harris( and company)in a Super Bowl. No way you can exclude them.
By falcon faithful
December 28, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this
Mike knows how to beat the Patriots! Sign him Sunday, please!!!!
By D-Cider
December 28, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this
TWO lousiest columnists: Jerk Schultz and Terrie Moore. both tied at the bottom.
one more thing: ron paul is a loser.
By capt midnight
December 28, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this
What? You don’t have a Falcon team in the top 5?????????????????????????
By Jeff Schultz
December 28, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this
Hey, “Go Pack Go” Just checking in. Did I write the ‘62 Packers played in the “Super Bowl” or did you just imagine that? … Sick And Tired: This is a politics-free blog. … I’m traveling to New Orleans tomorrow. I’ll try to check in after arrival. Jeff
By Bryan G.
December 28, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this
How about the 2007 Falcons?
By big fabric softena'
December 28, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this
Schultz is a transgendered sportswriter he thinks he has a dick but he’s just a p*** much like every redneck in kenesaw who dresses in drag and qoutes RoberT E. LEE
By Navigator
December 28, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this
I was just a little kid when the Packers dominated football, but given the period they played in lineman didn’t bulk up to 300 lbs. Bring them up to date with the talent and attitude that team had, and they could beat anyone. They invented the term killer instinct, but it went deeper than that. They were killers, and they never gave a less talented team a chance. They didn’t run around you, they ran over you and kicked you when they went by.
By redneck AJC writer
December 28, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this
punk wrriter . jeff you are a $hit head!
By PackFan
December 28, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this
Schultz,
What are you thinking calling the ‘62 NFL championship the “Super Bowl?”
By Fazsha
December 28, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this
Can’t quibble with the list (ignore the blooper on 1962 - they were a great team and deserve recognition). Even though I’m a Ron Paul fan and am especially impressed with his prodigious knowledge of Frederic Bastiat’s economic theories, I won’t mention that in a sports discussion.
By mike28212
December 28, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this
well jeff you did write “The Pack won the Super Bowl over the Giants in New York, where the 20-degree reading didn’t factor in the 35-mph winds.” it might get corrected but as of 10:59 pm, that’s what it says.
By Petunia Pig
December 28, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this
Terrance Moore is a REAL PERVERT when it comes to common sense …. he makes NO SENSE
By Najeh Davenpoop
December 28, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this
Shouldn’t we wait to see what the Patriots do in the playoffs before passing judgment on them? What if they lose in the first round, will they even belong on this list then? Truth is that team is a lot like the 2004 Colts — lights it up in the passing game, pretty good defense, good special teams, doesn’t run the ball even though they have a good RB. Don’t know if y’all remember or not, but those ‘04 Colts got eliminated before they even got to the Super Bowl. It’s not out of the question for the same thing to happen to this year’s Patriots.
By Ms. AR
December 28, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this
Reference your comment to “Go PAck Go’, is the sentence “The Pack won the Super Bowl over the Giants in New York, where the 20-degree reading didn’t factor in the 35-mph winds” sound familar? It’s hard to be sanctimonious when you’re wrong.
By BnB
December 28, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this
He didn’t imagine it, Jeff. You wrote it apparently.
By futile falcon
December 29, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this
HEY JEFF! BY NOW THE REST OF MY HOMEYS HERE CALLED YOU ON THE “1962 SUPERBOWL”! CRACK KILLS DUDE! READ BELOW YOU ILLITERATE A.J.C.HOLE!
January 15, 1967 - Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum Green Bay Packers 35 Kansas City Chiefs 10
By Jblau
December 29, 2007 12:52 AM | Link to this
Holy cow, sick and tired. Thank goodness this is an nfl column and not a math forum. A billion seconds ago it was 1976. Where do you come up with this crap?
By Ken
December 29, 2007 1:08 AM | Link to this
Oh for Christ’s sake…’62 Superbowl??
Even my 8 year old knows better.
By bob
December 29, 2007 1:20 AM | Link to this
someone is feeling a little lazy…
hey jeff, did you even mention that this little story was most likely inspired by a series of conversations on espn concerning how the patriots stack up against great teams of the past?
at least you are finding your own quotes for the blog instead of using bill parcells.
By Knowitall
December 29, 2007 1:48 AM | Link to this
You guys are the worst. This towns media worst in history.. no contest. Shultz a major downer. Please retire as we need a reason to smile.
By NASCARfan
December 29, 2007 2:04 AM | Link to this
What about any of those Cleveland teams led by Otto Graham that went to ten straight title games?
What about Cleveland led by the one, true greatest player in NFL history, Jim Brown?
What about the Steelers of 1978, beating a Dallas team which would be able to beat about 30 other Super Bowl teams but ran into the buzz saw that was the Steel Curtain Defense?
What about the 1986 Giants led by Lawrence Taylor and Harry Carson, Phil Simms, Mark Bavaro, Jumbo Elliot, and yes, Bill Parcels?
There are lots of great teams. But a team that is 19-0, that has to be the greatest team ever, because it’s about what you do as a team, not how many hall of famers you have, not how many pro bowlers you have (you listening, MeAngelo Hall you stupid thug), what you do as a team. And the Patriots have been, since 2001, the most perfect team in the history of the NFL.
Why won’t Arthur Blank follow their example? Why won’t he get out of his team’s way like Robert Kraft does? Why won’t he hire Scott Pioli to run the team? Arthur Blank is a meddlesome moron. And the Falcons will never measure up to the Patriots until he gets off the sideline, off the television, and into the shadows where he belongs.
By big fabric softena'
December 29, 2007 2:17 AM | Link to this
lying in my bed with vick jersey on 2 cats purring at my feet christmas in da ghetto is hard we blacks dominate pro sports with the best athletes yet i can’t buy my kid an education i pray and fear for this world…please love white devil stop hating…
By Jeff
December 29, 2007 4:16 AM | Link to this
Shultz! your an idoiot!
By WTF
December 29, 2007 5:26 AM | Link to this
Stupid reggin maybe lying in bed is why you can’t afford education for your kids. If we examine history, many of the greats were mostly self- educated i.e. Lincoln, Jefferson, Adams , Franklin, even Einstein taught himself calculus. It is amazing what self motivation and incentive will produce. So, instead of lazing around put your feet on the floor and go to work and quit blaming whitey for your poor choices in life.
By Howie
December 29, 2007 6:24 AM | Link to this
Go 93 cowboy’s even thought i am not a cowboy fan. But you have to admit. Aikman, Smith, Irvin, and good TE, a big O-line and an adequate defense.
Go 75-78 Steelers!
By joemontana
December 29, 2007 7:22 AM | Link to this
i guess i missed the part about the ‘84 49ers…
By Other Andy
December 29, 2007 7:49 AM | Link to this
I agree the Patriots aren’t the best of the best but guess what? They are the best this season and any NFL franchise owner would love to have this team and I hope they go all the way.
Speaking of the 70’s Steelers way back in HS I did a report on steroids and while I can’t remember the name of the book it was written by a late 70’s Steelers player who detailed the massive steroid use by that team.
That’s not to say the league isn’t littered with juice, HGH and IGF today unless you’re naive enough to believe eating your Wheaties allows you to be a great quarterback at 37 years old. It sure the heck isn’t Farve’s AARP card.
But that’s another story for another Congressional investigation when they want to deflect our attention from what is really going on in DC.
Go Pats!
By zoy
December 29, 2007 8:10 AM | Link to this
The Shih Tzu line got me too! Great stuff. I can’t argue with the list either. Of course I think my 07 Pats would beat Da Bears 85, but its debatable and I accept that placing. Funny how you don’t really hear that much about the 89 49ers. I can’t argue with them being #1. Funny thing #2, this years Colts would do some serious damage to anyone on the list.
By Mark "Superfan" Tucker
December 29, 2007 8:15 AM | Link to this
‘85 Bears, baby! I’m not sure they could have beaten the Pats, but they were a lot more fun! :-)
By Robert
December 29, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this
Somebody get an enema for Schultze and Bradley. Neither can write a paragraph unless their tearing someone down.
By boonedawg
December 29, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this
1962 Super Bowl?? Jeff, the first Super Bowl was in 1967. What a great blunder by a talentless writer.
By Brian D Hypes
December 29, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this
I definatly believe a ’70s Steeler squad or a ’90s Cowboy squad should be included in your ficticious list.
By Dan
December 29, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this
72 Dolphins beat the Steelers 21-17 in the AFC championship with Bradshaw in his third year at QB and before they added 4 Hall of Fame players in the ‘74 draft (Lambert, Swann, Stallworth, Webster).
70s Steelers champs would have beaten the ‘72 Dolphins and would have beaten the 2007 Pats like a rented mule - in the salary cap era you sacrifice having talent across the roster.
Jeff - only the 60s Packers had a run of dominance like the 70s Steelers and that 70s team had 9 HOF players and a HOF coach - just because a choice as the best team is the obvious choice does not mean it is not the correct choice
By aaaetc
December 29, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this
The ‘78 Steelers should be in and the undefeated Dolphins out. The stars algined right for Miami that year, but they are not a top 5 all-time team, if you look closely at their record. The other 4 could beat them by 2 touchdowns or more.
By Tony
December 29, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this
Not a bad list but before we count out some teams from the 60’s and 70’s remember rules have changed. Could Brady and Moss take the hits and pounding that those guys took???
By Tony
December 29, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this
Not a bad list but before we count out some teams from the 60’s and 70’s remember rules have changed. Could Brady and Moss take the hits and pounding that those guys took???
By Nick
December 29, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this
With all respect to aaaetc, I think the ‘72 Dolphins deserve to be on the list. They were in three consecutive Super Bowls, winning the last two. Actually, many Dolphins fans think the 1973 team was superior to the undefeated one. They went 12-2 and were much more dominant throughout the year, disposing of all three playoff opponents with ease. Of course, these lists are completely subjective, but I think a strong case can be made for including a team with a two-year run including a 32-2 run (including playoffs) and two Super Bowl victories - especially if you add to the fact that it was their third year in a row ending the season in the big game. If anything, the ‘73 Dolphins are underrated because they didn’t have the personality of the Steelers or the Cowboys and - I’ll admit it - played a less stylish, more conservative brand of game. But look back at the team, check out the Hall of Famers, and the Dolphins rank right up there.
I will agree on one thing, though - the ‘78 Steelers deserve to be on the list. Interesting sidenote: I actually think the ‘76 Steelers were the strongest Steelers team of the ’70s, though they didn’t even reach the Super Bowl. If Franco and Bleier hadn’t been hurt in the playoffs, however, they’d have won their third title in a row (and gone on to win five of six).
By Gman
December 29, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this
How can you leave the ‘91 Skins off your list. 17-2. Won their first twelve. Played 2nd team in the final game and lost to the Eagles then cruised through playoffs and Superbowl without a challenge from anybody. Just a dominating team on both sides of the ball.
By Nick
December 29, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this
Gman - Yes, the ‘91 Redskins are another of those teams that people forget, for some reason, probably because they didn’t have the popularity or flair of the Bears and Cowboys. It’s odd how certain teams remain in the public consciousness, and others don’t, though they should; I think a lot of it’s the media - the types of teams they like to publicize.
I think the ‘91 Redskins actually have a case for being THE most dominant team. Their average margin of victory was close to twenty points per-game (I don’t have the stats in front of me, so correct me if I’m wrong), the most in the modern era until this year… . The team was rarely even challenged.
By Joe Magarac
December 29, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this
The ‘78 Steelers should be in the top 5. In fact, the Steeler teams of the ’70s were the best teams in NFL history. Just check out the Hall of Famers….
By Chris F.
December 29, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this
I’m surprised the 1984 49ers and 1978 Steelers aren’t mentioned.
By David-ATL14
December 29, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this
85 Bears are the single most overrated, overhyped team not only in the NFL but all professional sports.
Flukish one year wonder, they are not a top 20 team by anyone other than Singletary’s or some other bear’s homers opinion.
No fan of the 2007 Pats but they would beat the 85 Bears by 20+ points every time they played.
Pats receivers would absolutely destroy the bear’s secondary. Wouldn’t be close.
By Notre Don't
December 29, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this
I think everyone one is forgetting the best football team on ANY level …
1988 - Agnus Scott’s Fighting Doc Martins
They were 16-0 (no other womens college had fielded a team that year). Their QB, Maude “Quick Lick” Mahoney, had a QB rating of 111.6 and their infamous “Plaid Shirt” defense held opponents to ZERO yards of total offense.
I’d rate them slightly higher than Smith College’s Ramblin’ Birkenstocks of 1972. Smith College had their inventive “Scissor Me” offense, but I still believe Angus Scott would TOTALLY lick Smith College if they got together today. PS: Notre Dame stinks!
By birdofprey
December 29, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this
The 1972 dolphins should be at the top of the list. No matter if they played on two teams with winning records or not, they won alll of their games. The so called dominant teams should have been able to defeat them either in the playoffs or the superbowl, but no one did. The patriots should not be on the list yet. Wait until they have one it all.They have not even played a playoff game yet and you have them above an undefeated team. All the teams that are on the list went thru the playoffs and a superbowl. You can’t short change the dolphins just because they did’nt have as many games. The games they had, they won, all of them, PLAYOFFS and SUPERBOWL.
By JackP
December 29, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
All of you got it wrong. Too many stupid opinions. Everybody knows that the 07 Falcons have the best team ever. Whooooooooooooeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
By cityofdecatur
December 29, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this
JBlau wins the math contest. todays magic number is 31536(000) it helps u get to 31.16 years
Happy New Year everyone
By cityofdecatur
December 29, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
that’s 31.61 years
*HAPPY NEW YEAR * EVERYONE
By RonPaulFan
December 29, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this
Maybe it makes more sense to look at dynasties instead of individual teams — a true test of dominance that eliminates the one-hit wonders like the ‘85 Bears?
20s-30s Packers (Lambeau) 30s-40s Redskins (Baugh) 40s Bears (Luckman) 40s-50s Browns (AAFC + NFL) 50s Colts 60s Packers 70s Dolphins 70s Steelers 80s-90s 49ers 90s Cowboys 00s Patriots (3 and counting)
By Bill
December 29, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this
Jeff, Maybe I missed it but I did not read where you indicated the ‘62 Packers won a Super Bowl. The “Title Game” was the correct reference. What’s the guy “Go Pack Go” referring to?
The Packers were my favorite. Too bad we can have the same caliber of players and coaches in Atlanta.
By Bill
December 29, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this
Jeff, Maybe I missed it but I did not read where you indicated the ‘62 Packers won a Super Bowl. The “Title Game” was the correct reference. What’s the guy “Go Pack Go” referring to?
The Packers were my favorite. Too bad we can’t have the same caliber of players and coaches in Atlanta.
By long time falcon
December 29, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
MARTY MAKES A POWER PLAY
A league source tells us that veteran coach Marty Schottenheimer is trying to finagle full control over the football operations in Atlanta.
Per the source, Schottenheimer is privately saying that he’s in line to run the show in Kansas City, when President/G.M. Carl Peterson and coach Herm Edwards are fired after the 2007 season ends.
The only problem? Peterson and Edwards aren’t going anywhere.
So what gives? The theories making the rounds are that Schottenheimer is simply mistaken, or that he’s intentionally puffing in order to get the Falcons to give him what he wants.
Meanwhile, Falcons owner Arthur Blank has retained former Giants G.M. Ernie Accorsi to assist in the search for a new G.M. and coach.
Blank turned to Accorsi after Bill Parcells used the Falcons’ offer as leverage to get a deal done with the Dolphins. But is Accorsi really all that different than the in-house G.M. whom Blank has suddenly decided to ignore?
Like Rich McKay, Accorsi enjoys a relationship with the media that insulates him from criticism. Indeed, no one (except us) has ever pointed out that Accorsi is the mad scientist who thought it would be wise to concoct a turd stew that featured personalities like Tiki Barber, Michael Strahan, Jeremy Shockey, and Plaxico Burress.
And then Accorsi gave up the fourth overall pick, another first-rounder, and more to acquire the rights to quarterback Eli Manning, a mealy-mouthed milequetoast with the leadership skills of a baked potato.
Finally, Accorsi hired a red-faced drill instructor to whip them all into shape.
But Accorsi’s involvement favors Schottenheimer. The question is whether Schottenheimer can get Accorsi to recommend to Blank that one guy should hold all of the juice as the Falcons try to return to respectability.
By stew18
December 29, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this
The 1969 Super Bowl winning New York Jets overcame all. It is not how you start it is how you end it. They should be #1. They made history. They forced the NFL to merge with the AFL. Go JETS!