AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2007 > December > 26 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USMarvin Williams coming into his own
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Jeff Schultz
It will happen one day. People will look at Marvin Williams and say, “Great player. Nice moves. Sweet jumper. Good kid,” and stop there.
There won’t be the contrasting thought, which hangs around like an albatross. One day, they won’t look at Marvin Williams and say: “Great player. Nice moves. Sweet jumper. Good kid. But he was drafted ahead of …”
There it is — the “but.” Williams knows it’ll hang around until the Hawks get really good for an extended period. It will happen one day. If it doesn’t, Williams may go down as one of the most underappreciated athletes ever to pass through this town.
“No question. I know that’s been talked about a lot,” the Hawks forward said Wednesday. “But I can’t take it personally. I know when I was drafted this team needed a point guard, and they already had Josh [Smith] and Josh [Childress] and they were bringing Joe [Johnson] in. It’s just how things played out. But I’ve never felt like people were attacking me personally.”
He knows. Hawks fans may forever debate whether Williams was the right pick three years ago, when the team drafted the small forward second overall, ahead of point guards Deron Williams and Chris Paul (who’ve become two of the league’s premier playmakers). But if it’s possible for a player to be a great pick without being the right pick, Williams is getting there.
The Hawks dumped Indiana on Wednesday, 107-95, for their fifth straight victory, words not written in these parts in eight seasons.
Williams (14 points, five rebounds, five assists) was not the biggest reason for this win. He made only two of six shots before two late buckets.
But he is a major reason the Hawks are 12-5 since a 3-7 start. In the six games before Wednesday, Williams averaged 21.2 points, and he ranks third on the team in points, rebounds and field-goal percentage. In short, he has made the jump the Hawks needed him to make.
“I think he would’ve made the jump last year if he wasn’t hurt,” coach Mike Woodson said, referring to a broken hand in the preseason that forced Williams to miss the first 17 games. “That set him behind big time. He lost so much conditioning, it was like he forgot how to play again.”
Probably culture shock.
Any player would have difficulty going from the winning tradition at Chapel Hill to the lack of same with the Hawks. But try this: Williams played only one season at North Carolina, and the Tar Heels went 33-4 and won the national championship. The Hawks went 26-56 and 30-52 in Williams’ first two NBA seasons.
Add youth — Williams would be a senior this season — the hand injury and the constant reminders of the Hawks’ void at point guard, and one of two things happen: The kid either melts down or toughens up.
Guess which way Williams went?
“I’m definitely glad I went through those tough times,” he said. “It was a learning experience. Coming off a national championship, going from not just winning almost every single night but winning big to losing almost every single night and losing big, it was a huge adjustment for me. But without those tough times I don’t think I would’ve been able to grow to where I am today. Everything happens for a reason.”
And what would that reason be?
Williams laughed.
“You just look back to where you were and you think, ‘I don’t want to be there anymore,’ ” he said.
He is smart and talented, and all you need to know about his work ethic is what happened Christmas Eve. Williams and a few friends drove to Philips Arena to practice — at 10 p.m.
“Coach Woodson wanted us to get some work in over the break — and I like practicing at night,” he said, smiling.
The comparisons to Paul and Williams neither surprise him nor bother him. “Chris and Deron were great players in college — I knew they would make an impact in the league,” he said. “People have asked me, ‘How do you feel when you see how they’re doing?’ But really, I don’t worry about it. All I can do is worry about myself.”
No worries. Wrong pick and great player somehow intersect.
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By Herschel Talker
December 26, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this
FIRST!
Who cares about the Hawks?
Go Dawgs!
Happy Hanukkah!
By vdunkndunk
December 26, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this
While Chris Paul and Deron Williams are better players right now and probably always will be (since they’re probably two of the top 5 PG’s in the league), I’m almost beginning to think Marvin was the right pick in the long run.
Here me out: If we’d taken Paul or Deron, we almost certainly would’ve won too many games to have a chance at Horford (since if we didn’t get a top 3 pick we would’ve lost it to the Suns). In that case we’d be starting Zaza at C (not good!) and Chills at SF, giving us worse starters at those positions and significantly weakening our bench at the same time.
So instead of one great young PG, we may have landed a great young SF AND a great young PF/C - and to me it’s the depth and athleticism we now have at every position that is leading to all these wins the Hawks are getting right now. And Acie Law isn’t ready yet, but he looks like he could end up being a pretty nice player himself at PG.
But even if Marvin wasn’t the “right” pick, I agree that he certainly isn’t the unmitigated disaster many make him out to be. It isn’t fair to constantly associate him with Paul and Deron, and he’s becoming a great player in his own right - deadly midrange jumpshot, plenty of length and athleticism, the ability to draw foulshots and knock them down, and an improving ability to attack the basket and finish. And he’s still got plenty of time to grow in every facet of his game.
By GoJackets
December 27, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this
I care about the Hawks. I am so excited about this young team and their maturation this year. Hawaii is going to do to Georgia what West Virginia did. System teams are hard to stop. Hawaii 38, Georgia 35.
By JSS
December 27, 2007 1:01 AM | Link to this
Another 24 hours have passed and here comes Jeff Schultz, theNO TALENT HACK!!! rehashing issues that others have put to bed already… MW is not Doug Edwards, Adam Keefe, Dion Glover, or countless other wasted picks that donned the old yellow, red, and black… It is a new day spirit killer, crawl back into your hole!!!
By Najeh Davenpoop
December 27, 2007 1:31 AM | Link to this
Normally I would criticize Schultz for being the no-talent hater that he is, but this time I actually don’t think he’s going far enough. Marvin is scoring much better now than he did last year, yeah, but he still has absolutely no idea how to play defense, and rebounds pretty bad for a 6’9 guy. You can’t say he’s a good pick when he’s still completely one-dimensional. If he can take advantage of his athleticism to become a good defender and rebounder then we can call him a good pick. Right now, his deficiencies are being covered up by Josh Smith and to a lesser extent Al Horford.
By Dr. Warren
December 27, 2007 2:47 AM | Link to this
Lots of knochus to you Jeff. Keep up the incisive writing.
By #21=Top50,1st ballot
December 27, 2007 3:02 AM | Link to this
I agree with poop. “Duck” right now, and I fear eternally, is a one dimensional player. He does not do anything but shoot(though admittedly he has a top 10 mid-range game). To go back and say “well if we drafted X then we wouldnt have Y” is spurious. We would have been/be a better team. Period. Not only that, we could/would have drafed Rudy Gay instead of Sheldon because we would have had one less F.
Marvin is a good player who is still developing, but he wont ever be a #1 player- just not aggressive enough. He is very complimentary and does serve the Hawks developing roster well. He needs to apply himself to other facets of the game however to maximize his game. I dont think he is all that athletic like some do, but he needs to up his effort defensively as well as round out his offensive game. Right now he is useless with ball unless it is a catch/shoot scenario. He needs to develop his dribble/drive game to take advantage of the mismatches he will be have because of he and Smoov’s interchangability. He is on the right track and it is not “fair” to continuously bring up Deron/CP, but there is little doubt that had he to do it all over again, what BK would have done. At least I would hope so…..
By Erock
December 27, 2007 6:08 AM | Link to this
Herschel Talker, pls do something useful, like collect Christmas trees, dig a few wells and play with your Herschel doll —- and leave Hawk talk to grownups.
By ScoobySnacks
December 27, 2007 6:58 AM | Link to this
On the Marvin Williams tip, we have to remember that this was always BK’s plan. To have a 2,3,4, and to some extent a 5 that are interchangeable defensively. I am not a BK fan, but have to admit he is being proved right in a lot of ways. It is our team defense that is getting us wins. True, Marvin is not as defensively giftedas say JSmoove. But come on, isn’t Josh a bit of a freak. That will never be a fair comparison.
Marv’s defense isn’t top shelf yet, but it is improving. And with the player rotation we have, there is rarely a time during defensive shifts that the opponent has a “huge” advantage. Shaq and D. Howard not withstanding.
So would BK have made a different choice in hinesight. Come now, you know he wouldn’t. This man has been more tied in to his plan that he simply could not admit the existence of any player that did not fit his formula. He wanted all these forwards and wings. He went out and got them. And I hate to admit it, but it sort of looks like its working. Marvin fits in perfectly with whatever it is BK’s been trying to do. So I think we should let that horse die and enjoy the good times for as long as they can last. Hopefully, late into April.
By payo
December 27, 2007 7:21 AM | Link to this
The Hawks are playing better. Marvin Williams is getting better every year. Move on Schultz go bash the thrashers or the Falcons!!!
By TROTTINGHOMETUDD
December 27, 2007 8:03 AM | Link to this
Schultzie is a good name for you Jeff. Wasn’t that Marge Schotts dog’s name.
oh No, the dogs name was Schotzie.
But you can be Schultz from Hogan’s Heros.
You pathetic Hack.
By JB
December 27, 2007 8:06 AM | Link to this
Marvin is growing into an excellent player. He’s becoming what Billy Knight said he would. Also, what Mike Woodson stated he could be. With all of the young talent developing around Joe Johnson, Marvin will continue to grow into the perfect #2 or #3 scoring option. Also, don’t snooze on his defensive skills! He’s not getting “toasted” every night, either! THAT is what’s showing his REAL growth!!
If they can continue at this pace and get into the playoffs(they may win the division at this pace) we better see Mike Woodson’s name mentioned for Coach of the Year! Everyone wants to give him grief while he was loosing with ‘babies’, now I want to see everyone give him accolades while he’s winning with the talented players that he’s helped develop them into!
Keep growing, Marvin, you’re an important piece to this puzzle!!!
By ScoobySnacks
December 27, 2007 8:29 AM | Link to this
Let’s talk about something a little more positive since Schultz can’t/won’t do it.
We need a new nickname for this bunch. “High Flying Hawks” isn’t getting it done for me.
* How about “BK and Woody present The 6’9” Mafia*
Kind of a hip-hop feel I think. I don’t know, works for me.
By Darnell "The Velvet Bunny King"
December 27, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this
Marvin may be coming into his own. Shultz, sadly, is not.
By morris
December 27, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this
I have watched almost ever single televised hawks game the last 4 years and for the life of me I can’t understand why people refer to marvin as having great athleticism. I just dont freakin see it! He never blows past defenders, rebounds, or plays great defense. I never see this cat get an and1 either. These are all attributes that athletic players possess and he does none of them. Yet ever talking head sports writer who probably never watches the games thinks he’s some great athletic specimen. Just because that was on his bio coming out of UNC doesn’t mean its true. Duck butt is just not very athletic if you bother watching a game or two. He waddles around up and down the court. And you would have to be retarded to ever believe that he will live up to his draft billing because this team would have been in the playoffs last year with paul or deron leading the way.
By jackson
December 27, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this
I just don`t know what to say about this STUPID column. Jeff, what the he-double hocky sticks is wrong with you? Yeah, yeah. We needed a point. But, look what is shaping up now. No other team has as many starters and subs AND YOUTH like we do now and if we don
By sooperman
December 27, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this
The people who wanted CP or DW can’t stand to see Marvin do well. It’s killing them inside. Isn’t that right Shultzie…Terrance?
morris… who cares if he is athletic or not. He is getting the job done! Quit watching the Hawks and go to New Orleans or Utah. There you won’t have a reason to b*** and moan like a baby. That goes for all the other people who can’t get over not having CP or DW. GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIVES.
By Ryder
December 27, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this
Really morris? What makes you think this team would’ve been any good with Paul or Deron? As a matter of fact this team would be nowhere without Al Horford being the rebound machine that he is in the middle. Can Paul or Deron play inteior defense? Don’t think so!
vdunkndunk and JB break it down perfectly in regard to Marvin’s offensive moveset. This team needed the depth of a Marvin Williams, especially when JSmoove’s jumper was off and this team not having someone outside of JJ who was a consistent offensive threat.
Marvin is not a great defensive player, but that will develop. He has improved on his rebounding and is now someone who defenses must gameplan for when facing the Hawks.
For all those who want real information and not just a blog filled with baiting comments check out Sekou’s blog.
By Hawksville Resident
December 27, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this
Nice article Schultzy! I agree with you that even though he wasn’t the right pick, he was a good pick. Morris: Regarding all the games you claim you’ve watched showing Marvin with no athletisism. Go to Hawks.com under multimedia and look at the highlights including last night’s game for your dunk on someone and Opening night versus the mavs for your And 1 over two guys including Dirk Nowitzki. You’re wrong about the athletisism part, but right about the duck butt snap. He walks like he goes to Bulldog every day, but I digress.
By Luther
December 27, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
I really like Marvin’s game and his emergence has really helped the team take it to another level. His mid range shot reminds me of Rip Hamilton in its consistency, though he does not have a lot of plays and screens run for him like Hamilton does. That solid jumper and ability to get to the line gives the Hawks their 2nd scoring option in a halfcourt offense. J Smith is great, but he gets his points in spurts and off of a lot of broken plays, etc. Agree he needs to improve defensively and rebounding, but his overall improvement and seeming confidence lead me to believe thats coming.
Anthony Johnson must be on steroids.
By Jesse
December 27, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this
He’ll be better the Bogut… that’s for sure. And I agree that we wouldn’t have gotten Al “the Mailman Jr.” if we would have taken one of those guys… and Acie Law will be a poor man’s Deron, just you wait.
By Pat
December 27, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this
hey herchel—-one natl. championship in 115 years—-nothing to EVER get excited about—-wait till JUNE JONES and hawaii pastes you fire-hydrant peeing mutts!!!! dawgsssux
By big fabric softena'
December 27, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this
Da NBA is the biggest joke in history ‘da playas can’t read love bein around guns hookers and keepin it real…schultz you are a putz please go away and take the nba with their mememe attitude no defense no one give a s** till the 4th mentality ever since bird left its a league for the ghetto i’m surprised they don’t wear baggy jeans and smoke reefer at have court buttheads all
By D-Cider
December 27, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
Jerk Schultz, you are without the doubt the most “glass half-empty” writer the AJC has and that is saying something considering Terrie Moore and his ceaseless self promotion whenever he can put his ugly mug or voice on ESPN. Just write an article that is positive w/o some wasted attempt at humor or crying about the past. You must be a real disappointment to your parents.
By vdunkndunk
December 27, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
Marvin is obviously athletic. He’s not an athletic freak like Josh Smith, but he tested out with the same vertical as Dwayne Wade and Andre Iguodala in the predraft camp, plus he’s got enormously long arms, so there’s really no problem with his athleticism - he’s still more athletic than about 80-90% of the league. If you doubt it, just take a look at Marvin’s massive dunk on Marvin’s Camby last year.
But Marvin isn’t really about athleticism anyway. He has an old-school game that will allow him to score about 20 ppg in the prime of his career while shooting a high percentage from the field and getting plenty of foul shots. You have to remember that if he hadn’t entered the draft he’d still be playing college ball right now. Will he be an all-star? Maybe. But at the very least he’s going to be a solid do-it-all kind of player who will help his team win games.
By Lil E
December 27, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this
Is this a Falcons blog or Hawks blog ? Man, save your subtle bigotry for T. Moore’s blogs.
Marvin Williams was a better pick than C. Paul and Deron Williams (what did I just say ?!) because Marvin Williams upside is still very high. I don’t think Paul or Deron are going to get a whole lot better than they already are. Marvin Williams is going to blow up in the next few years. He’s just now finding out how/where to score and how to create for himself. When he adds a few post moves and continue to improve his defense, he’ll be an All Star caliber player. Also, Marvin is very athletic. They aren’t many players with his combination of height, length, and weight who can move and do the things Marvin can do with the ball in his hands. Most of our star players (‘cept Joe and Chill) are going to put on more weight when they turn about 24 or 25. That’s players like Josh Smith and Marvin Williams will be deadly. Also, if Marvin improves his defensive footwork, he can slide to SG on a lot of nights. Just watch naysayers. This is just the beginning of the Hawks Highlight Factory.
By Pay Day
December 27, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
I have been watching this team grow since Mike Woodson took over and the team only won 13 games. Has it ever occurred to any of you that anything good takes time? If you are a “good fan”, you would be excited about watching this year’s Hawks team ascend from where they were a few years ago to where they should end up this season (playoffs a definite possiblity). I am not debating the CP/DW non-picks as that would only waste all of our time. Why not enjoy the team that is on the floor and winning b-ball games? Who cares that they didn’t choose who you thought they would choose. As long as the team is winning, why should anyone care who is in a Hawks uni? With the Hawks being the only team around here with the opportunity to be in a post season game (or playing games that matter after the first two or three weeks of the season) we should sell out the building and enjoy the one team with a winning record in this city. So, shut up unless you are at Phillips yelling FOR the Hawks!
By morris
December 27, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this
What upside? He’s a decent basketball player and thats it. He has a nice jump shot but the rest of his game is just not living up to the hype. Just admit it already and quit living in denial for christ sake. Marvin is not going to be the superstar he was hyped up to be coming out of college. I don’t hold that against marvin because he is a nice kid and he is making a solid contribution to the team. All I’m saying is lets quit acting like Marvin’s about to blossom into a star because he’s not. If you watch the games then you will know the truth. BTW, vdunk If I have to go back to last season to find an athletic move by marvin then that says it all.
By Lil E
December 27, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this
What upside ? The fact that his strong suit, his offensive game, isn’t FULLY developed. It’s funny how people forget that Marvin Williams came into the league as a project. Not a refined, polished product like Paul or Deron, but a player who has the athletic skills to be a star. He’s got plenty of upside because he is continually improving every facet of his game, and if you can’t see that then you haven’t been watching the games like you say you have. If you have to go back to last season to find an athletic move, you really haven’t been watching the games. You’re either a M. Williams hater or a Hawks hater to say that Marvin Williams isn’t about to blossom. The fact that the man has gotten double digits in rebounds on several occasions this season shows he’s a good rebounder. If he plays such terrible defense, who has he played that has just absolutely man handled him ? He gets and1s all the time, and gets to the line more than anyone on our team. Want to know what the kicker is, though ?
Prior to this season, he only had 2 seasons worth of NBA experience and he is a project player. Let’s see what you’re saying around years 4 and 5.
Anyways, I’m going to need you to show some facts, Morris, to support your inaccurate claims. I honestly don’t believe you watch the games like you say you do…
By RA
December 27, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
I wanted to say that that was a truly good article. I thought it was fair. I really did. Maybe you’ll give Shelden Williams a little love one day too…
By morris
December 27, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this
” He gets and1s all the time”. Thats just an outright lie and absolutley proves that you don’t watch the games at all. And his rebounding hasn’t improved one bit over last season. If you call 5 rebounds a game for a 6’9 “athletic” forward a good rebounder then thats you’re perogative. And dude you’re the absolute first person I have ever seen who thinks this guy doesn’t play terrible defense. Btw, I don’t hate anyone and especially not a nice kid like marvin. I don’t know exactly when the world starting using the term “hater” but I don’t care for it. I’m just sharing my view that I don’t believe marvin will ever be a star. That does not mean its personal or I “hate” somebody.
By Lil E
December 27, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
Ha..your problem is you take the term too far, sometimes. I really never took it to a personal level, or at least I didn’t think I did. I believe you hate his very solid and improving game to say he isn’t about to blossom.
He may only averages around 6 rebounds a game, you say. He is a small forward and most small forwards in the league don’t average over 7 rebounds a game, check the stats.
I have watched Marvin Williams play in games throughout this season and watch him take the ball to the basket which means he has the ability to blow past his defender and draw opposing defenders. Sometimes he’ll take the shot and miss, but he has made shots after being fouled . As of recently, teams have started respecting his jumpshot which is why he is able to drive and draw defenders. He’s taking advantage of that now, as you can see he is passing much better as he gets into the lane. Because he gets fouled so much after beating his man on defense in most cases, he goes to the free throw line and he’s around a 80% foul shooter and a top 10 player in field goal attempts. Marvin Williams does not play terrible defense. He is not a weak point in our defense when he is on the floor. ZaZa Pachulia plays terrible defense, but I cannot say the same of Marvin. His defense is improving and he is still a developing player. So, at this point in his career, you don’t think Marvin is ever going to get better with so many stats and game performances that, in my opinion, indicate otherwise ? Whatever..
By Lil E
December 27, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this
Excuse me, I meant top 10 Forward in FGA. He’s a top 20 in overall FGA.
By vdunkndunk
December 27, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this
Marvin’s athleticism is on display nightly. You don’t have to go back to the Camby dunk to see that he’s athletic, but if you watch that dunk you’ll realize that 95% of the players in the NBA couldn’t have pulled it off. That puts him in fairly elite company. Is he as athletic as Vince Carter or Josh Smith? No. But is he more athletic than most players in the NBA? Yes.