Sports Columnists

By Rob

October 10, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this

Terence, you never fail to be a hater!

By tim

October 10, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Come on Terrence, I bet if we were talking about Frank Robinson or Dusty Baker, they would be the GREATEST managers EVER!

Torre is SO MUCH better than the nose-picker we currently have, it’s NOT EVEN CLOSE!

By Chris

October 10, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

“Simply put, Torre ranks among the greatest managers ever for the Yankees,”

Torre ranks among the greatest managers on the greatest franchise of all time, that makes him one of the greatest ever. Also, if all it takes to win a world series is great players the Braves would have won more than one in the Nineties!

By Carla

October 10, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

LOL. He’s a good manager of great talent. The test of a great manager is one who can make a championship team with mediocore talent. Should Torre be out because of the player’s collapse, no! But in the majors the manager gets the praise in the good times and therefore, the sully in the bad times.

It’s so not a racial issue. Stop trying to make it one. I told you last night they like to crucify you on here TM.

By AA

October 10, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

I have to agree. Any fool can manage when a team has a bunch of talent and plays to its talent. A manager’s mettle is really tested when either the team is not talented enough or does not play to its talent.

In the Yankees case this post-season, they played poorly. Yet I feel Torre’s horrible decisions cost NY the series. They should’ve won Game 2 if only Torre had not let Jobba continue to pitch in the 8th inning after he had completely lost control and taken a risk with Mo instead. They lost the series on that crucial game.

By JordanPTC

October 10, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Well put, TM. And further, Torre shouldn’t feel bad about the situation. After all, if I were in his position, down 2-1 in the ALDS, and Steinbrenner made the same public threats about me, I would re-sign at the end of the season regardless of how the team did. No manager should have to work under that kind of a maniacal presence, period.

By Choppy

October 10, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Moore is actually pretty accurate about this subject. I don’t dislike Joe Torre or think he is a bad manager, but let’s all be honest: he isn’t the reason the Yankees won all those championships. He was a part of it, but you could have plugged any number of managers (with a non-explosive temperment) in that job and had the same results. The truth is, had Steinbrenner not had such a quick trigger, Buck Showalter would have been the beneficiary of the praise that Joe Torre now enjoys. Showalter is the guy who had guided the Yankees to the brink of their dominance. They were in the playoffs in 1995 before being ousted by an exciting Seattle team led by Jr. Griffey. It takes no skill to win when you inherit a good team. What is hard is to take a team that has not had success, and get them to believe it is possible. See Bobby Cox or Jim Leyland.

And really it was the players that the Yankees had early in that run that made them champions. They had guys like Paul O’Neill, a young Bernie Williams, an even younger Derek Jeter, Tino Martinez, Wade Boggs, Tim Raines and pitching by a dominant Andy Pettite, David Cone, Doc Gooden (before he bottomed out) and a deep bullpen with guys like Wetteland, Rivera, Wickman, Nelson, Weathers, etc. This was a team. Not a roster of overpaid all-stars, which is what the Yankees have become in the last 7 years or so.

Now if they replace Torre with Larussa, they will be a better run team (but with a less likeable leader). But until they start to remake this team to resemble a major league baseball team (20-35), instead of a men’s league softball team (40 and up), they will always have an issue of motivation and fire. The 1996-2000 Yankees had a mix of smart veterans and young cornerstones that made them a dynasty. But since they gave that formula up for an all-star at each position, they have lost what it means to be a team.

By Dammitman

October 10, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

Dayum, Tererance!!! I normally defend you, but dawg, how you gonna diminish one of the greatest and classiest managers of all time??!! And to make it worst, I’m an Orioles fan and have to give Mr. Torre high praise for his ability to even stay in NY for 12 years. Do you know what kind of talent he had to manage? I don’t think it’s that easy, balancing and managing that kind of talent and managing George Steinbrenner in NYC and those fans… What….are you crazy?? I have to beleive what the folks say about you on this one, Terrance. You’re waaaaaayyy wrong. I guess Bobby Cox was the right guy for the fright team, huh? You my friend need professional help. Torre represents class and something else that’s long lost in sports, character. You might need to take a few lessons, Terrance. You’ve shown me and quite a few others your character. And like school in the summer, Mr. Moore, you have exhibited NO CLASS.

By Bob

October 10, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

It simply amazes me that Mr. Moore even presumes to have the credentials to rate Joe Torre as a manager. For goodness sakes, Terrence, all you do is write sports column for a mid-market newspaper,—you aren`t even the Sports Editor—and I doubt you ever will be.

By Gene

October 10, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Either Terrence has a flawed memory or he intentionally ignores the facts. Torre’s tenure with the Braves was a brief success in a 25-year period of dismal failures. In the early 80’s, Ted Turner was as irrational and erratic as Steinbrenner. Torre won in spite of Turner’s interference with team matters. I hope Joe leaves NY. He has too much class to put up with a moron like Steinbrenner. There are probably 10 teams that would jump at hiring him. Let’s see what happens next year without Torre’s leadership. Then Mr. Moore can print a retraction—if he remembers his current position.

By Yankee Fan

October 10, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Well, Mr. Torre may not be on the top 5 manager list, but he has done a wonderful job, and didn’t choke away championship opportunities. The turn around this year with the pitching staff the Yankees had was a case in point.

Unfortunately, he has been hard on the pitching staff, especially relievers, to the point that he has probably damaged a couple of their careers (Gordon, Proctor, etc.). Not that he had a choice really considering who else the Yankees had at the time.

The Yankees need more role players and pitching. Until that happens, no more WS banners.

By cujoinct

October 10, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

You are a third rate hack in a hird rate city. Joe Torre is a class act. Any team in need of a manager would fall over themselves to sign him.

By John

October 10, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

Simply put, where else has Torre seen success? Nowhere.

Now compare that to Jim Leyland (Pirates, Marlins and Tigers), Tony LaRussa (A’s, Cardinals) and Bobby Cox (approaching two decades with a franchise that has fielded an array of teams) and it appears Torre is good, but not even the best manager in the game today.

By Ronnie D.

October 10, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

Terence….well written.

By Jeff

October 10, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

Steinbrenner (or however you spell it) should be the one going, not Torre. Steinbrenner is a crock and everyone knows it. Regan pardoned him 4 or 5 times on stuff he should have been indicted on. TORRE is one of the greatest coaches every, period paragraph.

By Jonathan

October 10, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

Yea but if Joe would have been here in the 14 years of glory Braves fans would have more than 1 World series.Terrance again your wrong but after all you do work for the AJC

Jonathan

By Muhammed

October 10, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

It’s a business. Steinbrenner is demanding. He pays well and has high standards. Sometimes the standards can be construed as unreasonable, but he is the boss. Torre is a great manager hired to win. He didn’t cut it this year. I truly can’t answer this questiopn, but could anyone have done better? A pressure cooker situation that only rivals Notre Dame Football. Torre will end up in the Hall of Fame.

By Jim

October 10, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

I don’t really give a rat’s a$$, what they do with Torre one way or the other……..I’m still just happy that both NYC teams crashed and burned.

By Kelvin

October 10, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Terence, My God, enough! Take the rest of the year off..

By morris

October 10, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

If joe torre was a black manager moore would be screaming bloody murder and racism. How anyone can find a way to diminish a guy who won 4 world championships in 12 years is ludicrous. The yankees failures the last few years can be attributed to the same thing that has plagued the braves recently. Starting pitching-plain and simple. A team can field a lineup with all-stars at every position but if they don’t have the pitching come october it won’t matter. Look no further than our own Atlanta braves who have had two years of solid offensive production but lackluster pitching. The result is two years of no playoffs for the bravos. Torre did a great job of managing this year any consistent pitching. Will see if the next guy can manage all of those supersized egos next year as well as torre was able to do.

By Jon

October 10, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

He’s still a better coach than Bobby Cox WILL EVER BE.

By Swatdad

October 10, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

I agree with you TM…..Finally.

By Grampus

October 10, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Terence - So who are the greatest managers ever in your opinion.

By VaFanCulo

October 10, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Wow is there something in the water down there, just when i though the TBS post season staff were the worst sportscasters/journalists in baseball, you come along and make them look like geniuses. You only wish you had a manager with Torre’s stats. Beyond wins and titles he has something you will never have…CLASS

By Adam

October 10, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

First, you write about how Petrino should be fired and now this garbage about Joe Torre. Give it a rest.

By FRED

October 10, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

just because your stuck in a LOSER city maybe you should just stick to stories about Vick and the other criminals in Atlanta.And stop trying to get a black manager in pinstrips, it will never happen

By TN Jeff

October 10, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Tim at 10:05 am comment - I agree completely.

Why does everyone love our Hall of Fame nose picking manager?

By jw

October 10, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

12 straight playoff appearances. Even with the Yankees and the glut of talent, that says a lot. Plus he did survive longer than many of the other managers in the ‘George’ dynasty. That in itself makes Torre a ‘great’ manager. Anyone who has to put up with George has to be great - what a stupid move for George to make the comment he made before game 3 - once again, another George moment BUT when it is all said and done, George will probably get to the HOF before Joe - don’t understand that. Arrogance always seems to win out over humility - but humility is something George will NEVER have, maybe milk that from Joe before you fire him George - Good luck Joe and count your blessings, you may get to leave New York with most of your sanity - and let’s hope the ESPN docudrama ‘The Bronx is Burning - part deux’ casts you better than they did with Billy Martin - I didn’t remember him with those ‘Spock’ ears. Mr. Moore, give Joe a break - he does deserve the accolades, good gracious, he sure earned them.

By Ed

October 10, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

Terance as usual you are clueless. Torre is not the problem. Years ago George and Brian Cashman decided that buying a team is quicker and easier than building a team through your farm system. Boston wasn’t too far behind that theory. They traded away anyone that had talent. Then as mid market teams such as Detroit and Cleveland beat the Yankees with payrolls that aren’t even close to New York, George throws a tantrum and decides it’s the managers fault. Having an allstar at each position is not a guarantee of anything. Having allstars on the bench to replace allstars is not a winning formula. What George doesn’t understand is you need non ego role players at some positions that are willing to do the little things to win games. Does anybody remember Scott Boros. He was the third baseman the last time the Yankees won the world series. I wonder how much he was making. Probably slightly less than the ARod $250 million. The Yankees have put more emphasis on their farm system over the past few years but it doesn’t happen over night. The formula for their pitching staff this year is a good indicator of how they think. Put a lot of money into proven but aging pitchers that might have a good year or two left in them. Going into the ALDS they had Clemens, Pettite, and Musina with huge contracts and nothing to show for it. Every other team left in the playoffs has a better mixture of young talent. George will spend another Billion dollars over the next 5 years and probably go through two managers. There is something said for running a team the right way and George doesn’t get it.

By FRED

October 10, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

The Braves have 14 consecutive division titles and 1 world series ring. Bobby Cox is the biggest choke artist in the history of sports. Oh! and is he still beating his wife? He can’t beat anyone else.

By FRED

October 10, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

The Braves have 14 consecutive division titles and 1 world series ring. Bobby Cox is the biggest choke artist in the history of sports. Oh! and is he still beating his wife? He can’t beat anyone else.

By bravesoul

October 10, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Come on TM. Admit it. You just like to stir the crap and watch the reaction don’t you. You’re probably laughing your tail off right now.

By Peter

October 10, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

Terence, you are the absolute epitome of negativity. Talk about bad karma, it’s seems every time you talk, things go wrong. Shut it!

By Ripme

October 10, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

Boy, TM you love to cut people down. Monday it was Petrino and how sorry he was doing his job and now Torre. WHO MADE YOU A GOD?

By robo

October 10, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

Who cares about the Yankees or Torre?

I’m just glad the zillionaire New Fork-in-it Stankees LOST. I wish they were 0 for 160. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

By BASEBALL PURIST

October 10, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Considering they don’t even play baseball in the American League…

By Denise

October 10, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Wow…Hater!!! I wish I could post Jill Scott’s new song for Terence.

By robo

October 10, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Uh, Ripme, maybe you didn’t know, “God” is a Cubs fan, and TM is just a hack sports writer that knows how to p** you off.

By Dr. R

October 10, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

The key strength of any manager (baseball or in real life) is to get your people to play for you. Torre does that by sheltering his team from the distractions of New York (George, media, talk shows, etc.). Same with Cox. The Yankees had other managers who couldn’t win with a talented lineup because the focus wasn’t on baseball. Torre let them be ballplayers. When he’s gone, the circus atmosphere will return and the team will suffer. As for his time with the Braves, I covered that team for another newspaper. He did a lot with a talented roster but thin pitching staff. When he was fired, they started playing their valued prospects who, it turned out, couldn’t play. For instance, he moved Bedrosian to the bullpen but his predecessor decided to start him and he struggled. They swapped him to Philly (for a lousy catcher) and he won the Cy Young … as a reliever. Torre knows his stuff, and any savvy baseball person knows that. And I think you do, too. Frankly, the Yankees just weren’t that good this year. You can win in the playoffs with a pitching staff that thin, I don’t care who you are.

By Dick

October 10, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

Base a manager not on his wins, but his championships. Cox can win the games when they don’t matte,r but when it comes to really making correct moves, he is unable to think two steps ahead and a manager must do that in big games.

By robo

October 10, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

“Considering they don’t even play baseball in the American League…”

Dang right. Designated Hitter is pansy ball. Pitchers can’t hit because thay are pampered early, stop practicing hitting, and dream of loafing/getting fat in the AL.

By FRED

October 10, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

What do you have aganist Italian- Americans? If a white reporter attacted African-American coaches and managers the “REVEREND” Al Sharpton would demand he be fired.And where was Al and Jessie on the Duke Lacrosse thing.Even they know a lying w******* when they hear one.

By Mjphilli

October 10, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

With all the recent Torre aggrandizement, I was wondering if there was anyone still left in Atlanta who actually went to the games prior to and during his tenure here and remembered how truly ATROCIOUS he was.

Personally, I still have deep resentment for the decimation he caused the franchise for years to come. Gibson hated Niekro; Torre wore out Bedrosian’s arm; and good up and coming talent were either forced out or folded.

Those are my memories of those years. So, thank you Terence for this column - those of us who have been watching the Braves all these years consistently agree with you. He may be (been?) a great manager for the Yankees but he sure wasn’t here.

By FRED

October 10, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Hey robo @12;47 pm. It’s 162 games.You don’t know sports so stick to what you do know. Go back to your gay chat room.

By Falconian

October 10, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Question: Since Ted Turner could buy Steinbrenner out of his petty-cash drawer, why do the Braves never (except once) go all the way?

Answer: “Runner-up Bobby”, that’s why. Great in the regular season, but…couldn’t get it done in Toronto; barely one WS Championship in all his years in ATL. We the talent he’s had? PUH-LEEZE!!

Gimme Joe T ANY day!

By Charles

October 10, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this

Terrance, after reviewing the comments it seems that some of them are race related. I am anglo and do not always agree with you but I think you are a great sports journalist and do agree with you on Joe. In fact I agree with you almost on any of the articles you write. You have done a great job lately.

charley

By Lee Kweller

October 10, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Let’s analyze Torre’s good points as well as bad. Good points: 1. His record speaks for itself. 12 trips to the post season, 6 world series appearances, and 4 world championships. 2. He manages personalities (egos of prima-donnas including management) very well. The players all love him. 3. He has a knack for inserting the right player at the right time in the line-up to shake things up. 4. He handles the NY press very well with class and patience. Bad points: 1. He doesn’t manage his pitching staff very well and tends to overwork his relievers. Since the good points obviously outweigh the bad coupled with the observation that none of the available managers out there would be as good a fit, I think he should stay.

By Jonny

October 10, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

Terence,

I wish I had your job, you know, wake up in the morning, have some coffee, read the paper… and figure out who to tick off today! I want your job.

Jonny

By David

October 10, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

Oh Terence, don’t judge Torre by those extremely mediocre Atlanta teams. The playoff team was supposed to finish in the lower half the division. They won. Give Torre some credit.

By dh

October 10, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

Not what Torre devotees want to hear but you are right. Great manager? Sure, but there have been others just as good in the Yankee past. For all the criticism he gets posthumously, Billy Martin was a great manager. Improved EVERY team he went to…Look it up…Texas, Minnesota, Yankees, Oakland. Whether he had the talent or not, he got the job done. In Oakland, he burned a generation of young starters by almost never using the bullpen, BUT he did win. Big difference with Torre has been his ability to keep his mouth shut, and hence keep his job. Martin was fired even after succeeding because he couldn’t do that. So one is a better tactician and the other is a better politician. And guess what? Silence is golden since Torre will end up in the Hall of Fame. That said, Yankee fans should get used to another roller coaster ride of managers unless they find another politician. The current roster of wanna-be’s is mostly populated by volatile types such as LaRusso and Girardi.

By Keith

October 10, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

After your stupid article about Andruw Jones being the reason for Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux winning their combined 6 Cy Youngs, I refuse to ever read your columns again.

By the way, Andruw was on the Braves for ONE, that’s right, ONE, wait, did you get that? ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE OF THOSE CY YOUNG AWARDS!

SHUT UP!

By Jack

October 10, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Joe has managed the monumental egos of an owner and overpaid players with success——to me that takes a great manager

By Dr. R

October 10, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

If Torre wore out Bedrosian’s arm, as you claim, how come he was better when he left the Braves? And Niekro, frankly, was about shot at that point. The front office at that time was the clueless entity with that team, and proved it by taking the team straight to the bottom as soon as Torre was gone. He and Gibson got all they could out of a mediocre club that was based on a couple of sluggers but a weak defense (Rafael Ramirez at short), thin pitching and no true leadoff hitter. What’s more, they played harder for him than they did for Eddie Hass, Chuck Tanner, Russ Nixon or any of those guys.

By chris

October 10, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Well all I can say is he ahs more world series rings that Bobby Cox.

By FRED

October 10, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Dear TM your racist attitude has you blind. To not mention Chipper and praise the most over rated player in all of sports shows you are an idiot. Who ever has been picking on you the 400 years is a lot older than me, i’m only 50

By Susie

October 10, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

YOU MUST HAVE LOST YOUR MIND!!! ARE YOU CRAZY!!! Joe Torre is the man! He is a great manager! Stop being such a hater!

Actually I should be happy that you are hating on Torre. Shows just how great he is

By Zed

October 10, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Shut the Hell up Moore! You are the biggest JERK in the news industry. You know nothing about football, baseball, basketball, hockey or any other sport because your MOMA had you taking ballet classses when you were a kid!

Torre is a Great Manager!

By Pit Bull

October 10, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

Nice article, Sheffield, err I mean Moore. As many players have stated, the Yankees wouldn’t have made it to the ALDS sans Joe Torre. Yes, they wouldn’t have made it without A-Rod either and both are wanted back by Yankees fans.

I remember the 1996 World Series. Torre made outstanding decisions and knew his team so well. I think that Cashman has tinkered with the line-up so much that the Yankees have lacked one important thing - chemistry. They had it with Martinez, O’Neal, Bernie, Jeter, etc. They just need two things - Torre back and some stability within their roster.

By Gayle Abbott

October 10, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Torre should go, I agree. When a team manages to get to the playoffs for several years in a row yet is embarrassed and dismissed in the first round - the manager should go.

Does this resume sound familiar Braves’ fans? Are you listening Braves management?

By the same standard that will find Torre dismissed, Booby Cox should have been booted out of the Braves dugout 5 years ago! And mark my words Braves fans - this team will never will another title as long as Cox is the manager.

Keep your 14 meaningless flags - there is only 1 that counts. And oh by the way, Torre has 4 of them.

By War Eagle

October 10, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

Terrance-name me 4 black mgrs that won 4 WS in a ROW and 14 WS games in a row and won 150 Games in one yr counting the playoffs! There are none YOU LOSER. TORRE is a class MGR with RESULTS-ok-RESULTS as in CHAMPIONSHIPS, World Series Championships. How many times have Leyland and his Pirates/marlins/Tigers been to the world series in the last 12 years? how about you beloved Dusty baker or Frank Robinson-i did not hear “This is the first time a BLACK mgr has been to the WS?” SHUT UP you Racist good for nothing jerk! go crawl under the racist protest march that you and Jesse and Al came from. if it weren’t for your RACIST UNcivil Rights act that allows you to be a jerk, you’d be fired. But oh no! YOU have to be protected because YOU were oppressed for a hudnred years. You weren’t even born them you ingrate! Man, do I wish JW Booth never shot Lincoln. Lincoln was right! You want to talk about pathetic-go do a story on Billy Knight and the LAST place Hawks who stink so bad they make Secaucus NJ smell like a bed of roses! Torre and the Yankees kicked your Braves to sleep, they kicked your BLACK managers to sleep. they have more WS than any other team. So Steinbrenner has money-you have to be RICH to own a team to begin with. IT’s HIS $, and he can do what he wants with it. But to blame a MGR? Torre does not hit or pitch. And when he was here with the Braves-Hormer was a BUST-so was Murphy-don’t see his name in the H of F! Braves had NOTHING! You cannot create a masterpiece if you are in a junk yard. Terrance Moore-YOU are a disgrace to constructive journlism andyou know ZIP about baseball mgmt. therefore, stop writing about WHITE MGRS and start writing about BLACK mgrs. This piece is Racially OFFENSIVE and it violates MY CIVIL rights. Joe Torre is right behind McCarthy for all time Yankee MGR wins and you say that is not good enough. I say, YOU are not good enough! Sincerely, A 40 yr Yankee Fan

By DUKES

October 10, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

I agree 100%. Not with Terence but with those who have noticed a pattern to his critiques: Find someone in sports whose career has taken a turn for the worse, rip them to shreds, and watch the public frenzy. Why? Because he gets more attention. Hey Terence, why not find an athelete who is doing well and write a positive piece.

By lin

October 10, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

here one for u put joe t and bobbie c together on same team be very interesting i know some of u will laugh at this one

By Phil

October 10, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

TM writes: “Remember his [Torre’s] stint in Atlanta?”

Uh, yes, because- unlike you- I actually lived here when Torre was manager.

“Underachieved?” Are you freaking kidding me???? You need to check your facts and talk to some people- like your boy Bisher- who lived here when Torre was the Braves’ manager.

“Underachived?” Look at the team’s records before, during, and after Torre:

PRE-TORRE:

1975 67 94
1976 70 92
1977 61 101 1978 69 93
1979 66 94
1980 81 80
1981 50 56
TOTAL: 464 610 0.432 winning pctge

TORRE ERA:

1982 89 73 1983 88 74 1984 80 82 TOTAL: 257 229 0.529 winning pctge

POST-TORRE/PRE-COX YEARS:

1985 66 96
1986 72 89
1987 69 92
1988 54 106 1989 63 97
TOTAL: 324 480 0.403 winning pctge

The bottom line is that the Braves were awful before and after Torre- nobody expected the surge that took place when he was manager. Cox had gotten them to be a roughly .500 team by ‘80 and ‘81. Yeah, firing Cox was a big mistake on Turner’s part… but it is easy to argue that firing Joe Torre after the ‘84 season was an even bigger mistake.

Next time you want to write about baseball history in Atlanta, talk to someone who was actually here. Otherwise, stick to writing about your beloved Big Red (underachieving) Machine teams.

By richard

October 10, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

If there’s any crying to be done it certainly WON’T be for Joe. It’d be for the Yankees and their fans. Things are going pretty well with him at the helm, why upset the apple cart for a devil you don’t know?

By gunny

October 10, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

fire joe torres??? if he had an ounce of pride or self respect he would resign

By Jerry

October 10, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

Sorry, T-man … You’re off-the-mark with this one. Torre has done a stellar job with the Yunks … and this from a Red Sox fan, no less!

By who cares

October 10, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Robo-you’re a certified moron and Charles-you are about as White as Al Jolsen. I don’t think TED has the money to buy ANYONE out since his AOl stock has plummeted and he has spent his cash buying Nebraska. He already said he could not afford to buy the Braves when Liberty Media bought them-and the Yankees are worth MORE than the Braves. So, financially, if he can’t afford teh Lexus, how will he afford the Lamborghini? Steinbrenner owns a shipbuilding company and other assets-he could buy the thrashers hockey team if he wanted. But,he is content with the Yankees. Then his son Hank takes over. Hmm-Yankees have more WS titles than FLA, PITT, Detroit and KC/Phila Combined. Throw in Boston and the Mets? Still short.Yankees Rule.

By Greg from Marietta

October 10, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

I agree with your assessment of Joe Torre. With the overloaded talent base that the NYY have had and continue to have * A BLIND MONKEY COULD MANAGE THE New York Yankees AND WIN!!* What should be pointed out is that despite all that talent they still LOSE come playoff time. Now “that” should be a indication of Joe’s managing ability (or inability).

By FRED

October 10, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry most of your Democratic pep’s can’t even read, and the ones who can read believe your racist,one sided B S . I suppose that George Bush is responsible for that also

By Brad

October 10, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Hey tim! Are you referring to the “nose-picker” who brought 15 straight division titles to Atlanta? Just wondering.

Joe Torre is a class act and a fine manager, but I would take Cox over him, or anyone.

By Ben

October 10, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Well put TM. Lets not forget that the “right place” also includes what your divisional foes are doing in the same time period. Tampa Bay, Baltimore, Toronto are not exactly powerhouses. The Red Sox are the only consistently stiff competition there. To his credit, Torre is a very classy guy and a very good manager. One of the greatest? Probably not.

By BASEBALL PURIST

October 10, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Once again:

THEY DON’T PLAY BASEBALL IN THE AMERICAN LEAGUE

If every baseball fan in America would ignore the American League, maybe they would start playing baseball again to get our attention.

By HAHA!

October 10, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

Brad-you would take 14 division titles over 4 WS titles. Umm-did you graduate from OGLETHORPE? That would be like the Thrashers celebrative 14 SE Division Titles and getting knocked out of the playoffs in the first round. They don’t award “World Series” rings to those that ARE NOT in the World Series. So if you are happy being 3rd or 4th best, then Brad, YOU ARE a LOSER just like the BRAVES, and those that think like them. Just win the Division-let someone else represent the National league in the WS CHAMPIONSHIP game-remember-WORLD CHAMPIONS-not DIVISION CAHMPIONS, but WORLD CHAMPIONS. Or in Football terms, they would not (or maybe they would) celebrate 14 yrs of the Falcons winning the Pathetic South Division title and then get knocked out by the Eagles or Giants every year. At least they could say-we lost to the SUPER BOWL Champs. but no, you BRAD would prefer to win the division every yr and NOT be IN the SUPERBOWL. They don’t put Division Winners on the box of Wheaties Brad, only the WS winners or the Super Bowl winners. That is the trouble with Atlanta-they don’t know SPORTS well enough to know that a WINNING season is one where you WIN it ALL-as in the last game of the year called the CHAMPIONSHIP.

By John

October 10, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

Maybe the Yanks should hire a black manager then, Terence? I’m sure he would automatically be the greatest manager ever!! Torre is damn good. And even though I hate the Yanks, I hate your articles more. Always wanting to be the divisive writer, I know the only reason he is not the greatest manager is because he is white, or italian, or whatever. It has to be the reason since your argument and the numbers on Torre’s resume do not add up. Torre just got better with experience and age, very much unlike ANY of your editorial skills.

By FREDe

October 10, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

brad@3:03 pm thanks for proving that YA’LL are content with losing. I’t must be a southern thing. who won that war anyhow I was out of town that WEEK !

By Yankees Suck

October 10, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

F*CK the Yankees!!!!!

By FRED

October 10, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

HEY TM Did you go to a black college? Thats what I thougth. Who corrects your spelling for you?

By mjphilli

October 10, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Dr. R, yes the front office was clueless.

Yes, Niekro was shall we say past his prime. But he wasn’t handled well either as an icon of the team or as a pitcher.

Yes, Bedrosian pitched well after leaving but wasn’t there a lot of talk that his career was shorted from overuse?

Yes, Torre would do things like pull a pitcher from a start while pitching well in the 5th with 2 outs and 1 on when the staff was thin. over and over.

Not disagreeing with anyone about Torre and the Yankees, but here? Yes, I will.

And I read TM all the time and I’ve never read into his comments anything racist. Honestly people.

By tonyheringer

October 10, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

TM

I agree he may not be the greatest of all time, but who is saying he is? This is a strange angle to take on this story.

Torre vs. Cox winning percentage is about the same and he is credited with 4 W/S wins one of which he was head-to-head with Cox. I’m sure Cox would trade the percentage points for the W/S wins. Wins we should have had against the Yankees and the Twins.

Torre TOTALs g 3843 W 2067 L 1770 .539 w/s wins 4

Cox TOTAL g 4022 W 2255 L 1764 .561 w/s wins 1

Plus, consider what everyone thought the first half of this season — the Yankees are done! But they came back, maybe not all the way, but a lot better than most folks thought. I don’t like the Yankees, but I’ve always admired Joe as a manager and a player.

Lighten up dude, he works for Steinbrenner — who must be reliving his “Bronx is Burning” days. :-)

By Marcel

October 10, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

Joe Torre took the Braves to a division title in 1982 and was one game out the next season. He was fired and the mediocrity went from there. I always respected Joe Torre. He said Dale Murphy came in first and second on the list of nice guys. I hope he skippers the Braves again.

By Stephanie

October 10, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

Steinbrenner is a pompous a*. Making a public “or else” ultimatum on an employee is just wrong. If it weren’t for the money his wife would probably “fire” him for “underperforming.”

By sara

October 10, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Torre may not be getting the credit he deserves. He managed a team full of ego’s and was able to keep them from killing each other. He may have ended up with a boat load of talent but it took skill and class to get them to play as a cohesive unit. He had the respect of all of his players but apparently 4 world series wasn’t enough to please Steinbrenner. Nothing can please Steinbrenner. HE wanted to buy a team rather than allow a mix of experienced and young talent. Thank you George for embarassing your manager in the press. I am a die hard Yankee fan but after the way you treated your best manager since Billy Martin, I would rather root for the Sux than root for the Yanks until George has kicked the bucket. I hope he doesn’t come back. Torre knows a little something about the game considering he will probably go to the HOF. He deserves to go to a team where the owner won’t micro-manage his team and allow him to do what he knows best. He also deserves the due respect George denies him simply because a few whiny overpaid underproducing players can’t pull their head out of their fourth point of contact and either retire when they should or learn what it really takes to make a team. To hell with you George. I hope your next few seasons find you at the bottom of the AL Central. Maybe then you will truly appreciate what you had.

By War Eagle

October 10, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

John-WELL SAID! Good job! Hey Terrance-the Lowly Marlins have TWO count em TWO WS championship trophies-BTW-Torre Beat cox in 1996 AND 1998-1996 was when the Yankees were Down 2-0 going INTO TURNER FIELD and the BRAVES lost 4 in a row. In 1998-it was over in 4 games. Remember1996, 1998, 1999, 2000-14 WS Games wins in a row before the lousy Mets won game 3-but, in true form, the Yanks regrouped and won two straight to end that series in a short 5. Torre-2 Cox -ZERO. BTW Terrance, Steinbrenner would NEVER hire a BLACK mgr-there are none with over 5 yrs of winning baseball stats AND have been to the WS. George hires PROVEN winners-not WHINERS.

By Reliable Source

October 10, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

This just in……………The Braves will announce tomorrow that they have traded Julio Franco, Mike Hampton, and Chad Paronto to the Twins for J. Santana. Also, they have agreed to swap Terry Pendleton for an VHS video of “How to become a better Little League hitter by Andruw Jones”. I am awaiting confirmation that we’ll have a new pitching coach as well. Bob Wickman has cleared waviers and can be coming back, and he’s bringing Claude Ramon’ with him!!! Now if we can just trade John Sheurholtz (sp) for Lou Holtz, we’ll be the odds-on favorite for the division title in ‘08.
Good article TM by the way.

By who cares

October 10, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

Hey Baseball Purist-Ummm-who has won the majority of the last 11 World Series and All Star Games?-That would be the American League-Yankees(4), Tigers, White Sox, Angels, The Bleeping Red Sox-did the Cardinals win one during that time for the National League-maybe? They do play baseball in the AL and they do win More Championships than the NL. See NY YANKEES-205+ WS Rings. that is why NY is the DIAMOND Capital of North America.

By Marcus

October 10, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

As a Yankee fan since the 1960’s I remeber the great times with the lean years. The lean years were more fun, at least you could walk up to the Stadium and purchase a decent ticket on game day. As for Joe Torre, goodbye and good riddance! Torre succeeded by coming to New York and being hired by Bob Watson (a great underrated GM). He walked into a situation with a stacked ball club poised for their championship runs. Torre has no strategy as a manager, is outmaneuvered, and can’t handle a pitching staff (arm injuries to Tanyon Sturtze, Scott Proctor,etc. 4 innings in 2 days for Joba,etc). The Yankees won in spite of him. Any decent manager would have had the same run if not better.

By Bo

October 10, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

PHIL You are correct in your Oct 10th, 2;40pm post. Thanks! Wish you would do the same on Bisher Blog.

By MS LOVEY

October 10, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

JOE TORRE STILL IS THE GREATEST MANAGER FOR THE YANKEES EVER!!!!!!!!!LOOK HOW MANY WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS HES WON FOR THE YANKEES,FOR THAT MATTER LOOK WHAT HES DONE FOR THAT BALL CLUB.FOR 12 YEARS JOE HAS ROCKED THE HOUSE!!JUST REMEMBER HE WAS NOT THE ONE SWINGING THE BAT WHEN THE YANKEES LOST.OR THREW A PITCH.DONT TAKE HIS JOB AWAY BECAUSE THE YANKEES DIDNT PULL THROUGH!!!!!

By ChampDawg

October 10, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

I am quite sure that Joe Torre and the Yankees don’t give a DAMN what some 2-bit columnist in Atlanta Jawja thinks.

We b*** at Booby Cox for winning but 1 WC out of 14 straight divsion titles with all the talent the Braves have had. And now, TM has the stupidity to downgrade Torre for winning FOUR world championships.

Like I said, I’m sure Torre could give a rat’s @$$ what TM thinks.

By TR

October 10, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

Well put TM. Gee Terry I’m sorry so many came to bury you. You would think this was some statement about Gore Vs Bush. I like Joe and think he is a good manager. It’s stupid to fire him, but if he does go and then manage somewhere else he gets a chance to prove his mettle. If the Braves had not choked in ‘96 I don’t think the Yankees would have won 3 other titles. I’m not saying the Braves would have either but I think things would have turned out different. And P.S., I don’t hate the Yankees. I do hate Steinbrenner and his yearly attempt to buy the WS with the highest payroll. He’s not alone though. I would love to see a cap in baseball of $100 million or less. I know that the Indians with a payroll 2/3 less won but I would like to see the playing field leveled and think it would be good for baseball to see everyone have an equal chance. They don’t now.

By josh

October 10, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this

opw, TM sucks a*. Some dumass who is paid to write s** in atlanta. only the best guys, like tom verducci are actually good. but tm works for some s** motherfuking B.S. magazine in Atlanta. He probably was a little nerd with glasses when he was young and was a wannabe n* who couldd’t play sports.

By n

October 10, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

The Yankees got into post season. That’s a lot better than many of the other teams in the AL, but those managers are not being criticized as much as Joe. Torre should not be blamed for the Yankees failure. A-Rod wasn’t hitting. Hell, hardly anyone was playing to their full ability. It would be horrible to see him go.

By Lori

October 10, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this

Joe Torre is one of the greatest manager the Yankees have ever had. Look at his record. I think George needs to take a step back and look at some the highest paid players. How are they earning their money, they choke in the post season. If Joe goes, as much as I love my Yankees, I may have to boycott the games. Come on George wise up…

By chip

October 10, 2007 7:29 PM | Link to this

I am no Yankees fan but Braves fans would take a 4-2 record in the World Series under Torre rather than the 1-4 record of Bobby “The Wife Beater” Cox. Cox had one of the best piching staffs in baseball for about 10 years and could only close the deal once and he was lucky then. If Turner had sprung for a real manager just think what they could have done.

By chip

October 10, 2007 7:29 PM | Link to this

I am no Yankees fan but Braves fans would take a 4-2 record in the World Series under Torre rather than the 1-4 record of Bobby “The Wife Beater” Cox. Cox had one of the best piching staffs in baseball for about 10 years and could only close the deal once and he was lucky then. If Turner had sprung for a real manager just think what they could have done.

By Danimal

October 10, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

I would like to see Joe Torre take over for Bobby when he retires. Ownership will never give us another champion, but with Joe, we would have a class act.