AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2007 > October > 06 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USKeep Renteria, find young arms
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Furman Bisher
OK, you’re the general manager. The Braves had a season that darn near defies description. They waffled. They came back, then took a snooze, then turned up the volume again. They still darn near made the playoffs, and could have with another high-powered starter or two. And even an average Andruw Jones kind of season.
He’s gone now. You could see that one coming. Oblivious to his starvation batting average, he had said that this time he would take no discounted deal just to stay in Atlanta. Not that he was exactly a Wal-Mart kind of bargain at $13.5 million. How generous of him. Marked down? Discounted? He could cover center field like a one-man platoon, but at his wage he was a luxury too rich to afford.
This may test his bulldogged agent, Steve Boras, who doesn’t get nearly enough doors slammed in his face. The price tag on Andruw is $20 million. This time Boras has reached his extreme. John Schuerholz can see far more value in $20 million worth of starting pitching. He can find any number of .220 hitters who can chase down fly balls for far less. Maybe this season was just a blip on Andruw’s radar screen, but at no time during the season did he give any extended promise of breaking out of it.
Jeff Francoeur could handle the job. He has the arm that Jones doesn’t have, and he has the range for it. But, he is so perfect for right field, the powerful arm, plus range to cover some of center field as well. Well, a bit of a stretch, I guess. There’s a kid named Jordan Schafer down at Myrtle Beach who gets high grades — and who is known by some as Grady Sizemore-like — but the last time the Braves found a center fielder capable of making the leap from Class A to the major leagues was Brett Butler in the early 1980s. Rafael Furcal later made the graduation at shortstop, which brings up a matter of another nature.
There’s nothing uplifting about the thought of Edgar Renteria in some other team’s cloth. He has given the Braves two years of solid joy at shortstop, but here’s the deal: If the Braves are looking for a place to readjust the payroll, they could deal Renteria and go with the younger and more agile Cuban, Yunel Escobar, for a bundle less. A cruel thought, but baseball is a game that breaks hearts.
Pitching is the soul of the Braves’ complexities. John Smoltz and Tim Hudson, yeah. Where do you go from there? Tom Glavine, indeed, may not be the answer, not that he’s even on the Braves’ want list, while in truth, he may not be the answer anywhere. Schuerholz does not speak of such matters, carefully avoiding any hint of tampering. Tom has already turned down a $13 million option to stay with the Mets, so what could the expectation be to be a Brave again, a $5 million cut? Hardly. Because Glavine has a residence in the area makes him no more likely to land here, though it is a nice, cozy thought. You know the weary old line: “To spend more time with the family.” You begin with John Smoltz and Tim Hudson, and finally, at last, after two seasons of not throwing an official pitch, Mike Hampton should be, must be, ready by this time. He owes them.
So, instead of working the free-agency market, retreading with aging, leathery arms, is there not the possibility of transferring one of those young, vibrant riflemen from the bullpen to starting? Just asking. Chuck James appears better suited for short-term duty, so swap him for Soriano, Acosta, Ascanio or Devine, who, for the most part, are merely names at this stage. One thing for sure, leave Peter Moylan just as he is, the best thing that happened to Braves pitching this year.
First base, as we all know, is in the smooth and powerful hands of Mark Teixeira for a year. Then comes the hellish matter of dealing with him on a future contract. Hellish, because he, too, is a client of the bovine of agents, Boras. Having a Georgia Tech connection will have no softening effect in the dealing, you may be assured. Is there no escaping this wretched genius Boras?
Permalink | Comments (65) | Post your comment | Categories: Braves / MLB, Furman Bisher
Comments
By geekboy
October 6, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this
Keeping Renteria for millions when Escobar would give basically the same stats for a couple hundred thousand, would be the height of foolishness.
Sent Renteria packing and BUY A STARTING PITCHER. There has to be someone YOUNG and EXCELLENT out there looking for millions to PITCH.
By Jeff R
October 6, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this
Depends what the Braves could get in return for Renteria. But I’ll take a talent young arm with a some good experience in return.
By quint
October 6, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this
Do y’all not remember what Renteria has done for the braves since he has been here? He has a great shortstop position and his batting average hardly wavers. Has anyone had a steadier bat since he began playing for the Braves. Of course, the Braves need starting pitching and Escobar is cheap.
I disagree with Mr. Bisher because Tom Glavine eats up so many innings. He may not be the guy who finishes with a sub-3.00 era anymore, but with the exception of his last game he had another good major league season. He never gets hurt and he is a great leader. Like him or not, he gets respect from the younger ball players.
If the Braves decide to cut ties with Renteria they had better get a young rubber-armed starter.
By Chris
October 6, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this
As much as Renteria would be great to keep, it only makes sense to try and trade him for a starting three pitcher (and hopefully a young prospect), keeping Hudson and Smoltz at one and two.
Put the cheaper Escobar in and you don’t lose much in offense, as well.
Bring back Glavine, if for nothing more than his presence in the clubhouse and to mentor Chuck James for a year or two since he is so much like Glavine pitching wise. Give Glav a farewell tour of sorts, and have him as your number four, maybe three, starter, at best.
Hopefully Hampton finally makes it back as the number three or four, and then have James, Carlysle or Jo Jo as the number five.
Would this not give us an extra ten wins next year? I have to think that it would….
By Ralph
October 6, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this
Don’t give in to Boras, no matter what player is his client.
By jay
October 6, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this
I think everyone is making a false assumption. Renteria has what - 1 or 2 years on his deal? You think someone is going to give up a good young arm for Renteria and take on around 9 million in payroll? Sorry, but that is highly unlikely. Carlos Silva is said to be the best free agent pitcher on the market and everyone needs pitching depth. Carlos Silva! There is simply no supply in this market so basica economics tells you the price for starting pitching is going to be astronomical this offseason, not only in monetary terms but in terms of what you have to exchange.
Renteria has been terrific for the Braves and Escobar had a great run last year. I would argue that he may have more trade value considering his price tag. But neither of those guys is going to land a #3 or even #4 starter.
Anyone who trades quality pitching is going to want very good young players with promising futures and low price tags. And they are going to want more than one of them.
By JMar
October 6, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this
People always seem to forget the importance of having a decent bench. In Yunel, we have a guy who can play anywhere on the infield. Imagine where the Braves would have been without him when Chipper went down or when Renteria went down. We trade Edgar and have one single injury on the infield, we’re in deep trouble.
Keep Edgar, start Yunel at second, and make him the heir apparent to Chipper at third. If there’s an injury, Kelly Johnson takes over at second and Yunel fills in for the injured player. Otherwise, we risk having another veteran fill-in like Pete Orr or Chris Woodward or minor league fill-in like Scott Thorman. When you have someone as injury prone as Chipper, that’s a season killer.
By TI
October 6, 2007 7:57 PM | Link to this
Get Glavine!
By Bo
October 6, 2007 8:04 PM | Link to this
Why would Glavine even think about coming back to the Braves for less money when thats the reason he left to start with. Give up 13 million with Mets for 7 or 8 million. I don’t think so. If he does return, I hope we don’t regret it.
By Jeff
October 6, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this
Lose Edgar and find pitching, it’s really that simple. Escobar will settle into shortstop just fine. Don’t let Glavine ever wear a Braves uniform again, EVEN IF HE BEGS.
By Mitch
October 6, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this
Mr Bisher,
I think, if you could get him for 10 million or less, Glavine is the answer. This is very much a “Win now” team, with Smoltz at 41, Chipper going to be 36 next year, and always injured. Our only not very old core guys are Frenchy, Mccann, and Hudson. Besides that, we need to get to the postseason, and win a World Series now. If Hudson and Smoltz pitch as they did in 2007, and Glavine can win us, say 12 to 15 games, that is a very good 1-3 staff. Throw in James, and Hampton if he comes back, or, Reyes/et al, our staff is then one of the best in the NL. We just saved 13 mil not re signing Andruw. I say, go after Glavine, with a one year contract with option for a second. The guy has never been injured, and can help us, and provide insurance, in case Hampton in fact is done with his career.
By Micah Greene
October 6, 2007 8:11 PM | Link to this
Bo is right. We don’t need a greedy millionare pitcher with no velocity. Spend the money on a young arm. If the ump doesn’t give him the corners, he’s toast.
By Andt
October 6, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
Bisher,
Andruw’s agent first name is Scott not Steve.
By cooper
October 6, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this
It is very likely James gets traded during the offseason. His inability to pitch deep into games and giving up the long ball has cost him.
James will get mentored as a 5 hole starter on another team.
By Torpedo
October 6, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this
The main sutuation is this, you have to trade Renteria now unfortunately because he will be a free agent and command more than 10 million/year that the Braves won’t spend.
Get as much as you can now for him and lock up Texeira. IT makes the situation easier knowing that Escobar is ready to go.
By The Murf
October 6, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this
Good article, Furman…
By Gil in Mechanicsville
October 6, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this
Brett Butler played at AAA Richmond before advancing to Atlanta….. Are the Braves still paying deferred money to Len Barker????
By Robert S
October 6, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this
Yunel Escobar is talented, and cheap, meaning the Braves can hang onto him for several years as opposed to Renteria. I like Escobar’s raw talent and instincts, and can develop into a 20-homer, 30 stolen base guy with a cannon for an arm. They can potentially save a lot of money by making Escobar their every day shortstop.
It’s imperative the Braves sign Teixeira. The Braves will need that money saved from trading Renteria to sign Teixeira to a long term deal.
But most importantly, the Braves need at least two above-average starters, or they face another 80-85 win season with a hodge-podge of odds and ends like this past year.
Signing Glavine can’t hurt. Being the competitor he is, it’s certain he doesn’t want to finish his career on a sour note as he did in New York. He’s still good for 12-15 wins as a third starter with an ERA around 4.
That means the Braves need trade bait to get another starter, and that makes Renteria the odd man out. I can’t see the Braves continuing to gut their system of prospects, although at least one (say, Lillibridge or Reyes) will have to be included in any deal. Renteria could be attractive to a big market team (White Sox for Jon Garland revisited?) because he’s still very productive both in the field and at the bat.
It will be interesting as the Hot Stove League heats up to see how John Schuerholz handles the challenges of upgrading this roster.
By Who Cares
October 6, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this
* WHO CARES!! THE BRAVES SUCK! THEY ARE JUST AN AVERAGE TEAM, THAT IS WHY THEY CAN’T MAKE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!*
By Navigator
October 6, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this
The columnist don’t get it, you can’t keep Renteria with a limited budget. Arizona has set the mold for how low budget teams can win divisions, and playoffs; Pitching, Pitching, Pitching. Escobar is the future for the team, so take advantage of it. The money that Renteria cost is another quality pitcher.
By Lynne
October 6, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this
Keep Renteria. Move Escobar to second. Trade Kelly Johnson for a pitcher.
By Micah Greene
October 6, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this
Why can’t everyone see what Navigator is saying. If Glavine was the starting pitcher for the Diamondbacks tonight we would be looking at game 4. Spend the money on a quality pitcher. Not an old man nibling at the corners.
By Ken Stallings
October 6, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this
Andruw Jones made $2.5 million more than John Smoltz this season.
Only a man so arrogant as to re-define the term could posit that Jones came at a discount to the Braves! His performance at the plate hardly warranted MLB minimum.
His performance in the field frankly warranted about $5-7 million and that’s being charitable and certainly within the framework of MLB salary structure.
Perhaps this is finally when Boras gets served up a big ole slice of shut the “you know what” up! His mind is obviously numb. No serious person would believe Jones worth $20 million per year.
Jones had one season that would put him in that echelon. Someone like David Ortiz and Alex Rodriquez have many more than just one, and have them far younger.
Bring Glavine back. Even if he breaks even at .500 that’s plenty good for a fourth starter when he can eat up innings. If we had that this year we’d still be playing.
And what’s to say a final year with Cox as manager might not bring out the best in Glavine, combined with a little home cooking!
Kelly Johnson can always move back to the outfield. Put Escobar at second and Renteria at short. That’s a mighty fine lineup both in the field and certainly at the plate.
By Dave
October 6, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this
Keep Renteria. Ther ewill be plenty of at-bats for Escobar when Chipper inevitably gets hurt, and in place of Johnson when a lefty is starting. An no, Escobar will not give us what Renteria does. Escobar hits for average, but no power. Some day he might be another Renteria, but if we want to win now we can’t trade Renteria.
By JamesB
October 6, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this
You have to keep Renteria. Yunnel will be needed to fill in for Chipper when his aging body takes August off again. Glavine is worth $10-12 million….only because there isn’t much out there. The real question mark is Hampton….I hope we don’t have to get all the way to spring training to “fish or cut bait” on his insurance policy. We learned this year that starters 4 & 5 matter as much as 1 & 2.
By Jus'Bob
October 6, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this
Send Renteria packing, huh? Geekboy, you are all that. “There must be someone out there … ” You are an idiot, geekie.
By Bravesfan
October 6, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this
Escobar and Johnson are versatile. Johnson can play 2b or the OF. Trade neither. Do not trade Renteria. Pick up a free agent pitcher and platooon Johnson and Diaz in LF. Or, make Diaz the man in LF, move Frenchy to CF and put Johnson in RF. Escobar at 2b. .
By EJRC
October 6, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this
Many of you people are living back in the mid 90’s if you think Glavine is worth even 8 millions a year. He was worst than Chuck James who you want to trade, only thing he did better was eat more innings but he didn’t picth better than James.
Forget Glavine, he’s done. I’d rather have Silva or another less priced FA SP that on top of that will be better than Glavine.
By DandD
October 6, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this
Renteria is here for two more years, is that correct? Will he not be a bargain for two more years with the Red Sox still picking up a big chunk of his salary?
I think letting Edgar leave next year will be letting him go one year too early.
Escobar is going to be very good, but he isn’t a dead lock to be great next year. He could use another year of major league experience. Edgar hit .330 this year and carried the Braves the first half.
Now instead of saying trade Edgar for good young (and cheap) pitching or saying to dump Edgar’s payroll liability to sign good young pitching, why doesn’t someone start giving some names?
Who is out there that you want? Remember, this isn’t fantasy baseball it’s real baseball. Who is going to give you a young ace for Renteria? What teams are in the business of parting with good, affordable, young pitching? What young ace is out there on the FA market this year? Do you guys even know if there is anyone on the market this year who is indeed a lead pipe lock to be a quality pitcher? And if you trade remember, the team has to be willing to actually trade your targeted pitcher for Renteria. Just saying, “we need to trade Edgar for….” just don’t get it.
WELL?
Ok so you can’t get an ace for Renteria, what are you going to get? A old journeyman number 4?
So if you get some old or even young inconsistent number 4 for Edgar, then you have just given away a steady .330 hitter who carried this ball team for much of last season And why would you do that? Escobar? He’s the man of the future, but in my book the future shouldn’t be for at least one more season.
So what’s Edgar gonna cost next year, 5-6 mil? That’s a bargain. Braves are increasing payroll some next year. Andruw’s 13.5 mil is gone. Some of it will go to pay Tex in arbitration, some of it may go to pay some others, but there should be some money freed up. The Braves paid Wilson 2 mil this year for what a month on the roster? Redman got almost a mil.
Andruw hit .220 and drove in close to 100. I’m glad the Braves chose to let him go, but losing he and Edgar over the winter may not bode well for this team, especially if you don’t get lights out pitching from someone.
Braves can’t count on Hampton for anything. If he comes back and is effective, that’s gravy. If the Braves even consider his spot in the rotation solid and they don’t need to address it, then they are nuts!
Glavine doesn’t cost you Edgar and is probably a better quality pitcher that you could probably expect from moving Edgar. Glavine walked from NY with 3 mil in his pocket. He wasn’t going to cost the Braves 13 mil in the first place. He could probably be had for 8 mil.
Anyone know any FA pitcher or a guy on the trading block who had 23 quality starts last year like Glavine?
By DandD
October 6, 2007 11:24 PM | Link to this
EJRC
Glavine didn’t pitch better than James? Chucky had 11 quality starts. Glavine had 23. Chuck wasn’t around for more than 5 innings much of the year! Glavine pitched 200. The Braves pen was overworked all year because of the 3-4-5 starters. Chuck almost singlehandedly exhausted the pen.
Glavine pitched much better than James. If you think not, then you just weren’t paying attention.
By gart
October 6, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this
offer maddux and glavine 5 mil a piece and a 10 million world series bonus if they win it all. watch em get it done then, isnt maddux eligible for free agency too
By Mike
October 6, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this
What about Escobar in center? If a former catcher named Biggio can do it Yunel can also.
By Coach Lets Go Braves In 2008)
October 6, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this
Mr.Bisher , I respect your opinion , but in this instance I have to disagree. Trading Renteria is not something I want to see happen for just any half-baked reason. The reasoning is , Escobar is ready as his .326 BA as a rookie will evidence and he is by far the better defensive player. Money dictates that Escobar’s minimum salary ( under 500,000) vs. Renteria’s 9 million (6.6 million by the Braves) screams trade. Why Did salty get traded ? Brian McCann. Same situation with the two short stops in Renteria/Escobar. Renteria will be traded but not necessarily for pitching. Glavine will meet that need. The second most pressing issue is CF/defense. Think Detroit Tigers / St.Louis Cardinals and Cameron Maybin (2005 1st round pick / five tool CF prospect) and Colby Rasmus (2005 1st round pick / five tool CF prospect) who’s brother(RHP Cory Rasmus) is already in the Braves system. I can only hope that John Schuerholz is as outside the box in his thinking as I am.
By bravo
October 7, 2007 1:10 AM | Link to this
Escobar 2B Renteria SS Jones 3B Tex 1B Francour RF MCCann C Johnson LF Harris/BJones CF
What a line-up, don’t you think? Try and sign Renteria and Tex now at a bit of a discount. Let them go to fa and they are gone.
By Peter
October 7, 2007 1:51 AM | Link to this
There are facts that Braves fans have to face.
1.People who take the most money aren’t “greedy” There’s no show named Who wants to be a Thousandaire. People don’t play the lottery to win fifty bucks. Who wouldn’t want a Boras negotiating on your behalf? Please don’t remind me about salaries for cops and teachers. We, the public are responsible for those salaries,
2.Nobody, repeat nobody (save for the Braves) is trading young pitching prospects. Why trade a young pitcher for a Renteria when you know the Braves are run on the cheap and Edgar’s going to be avaiable in a year anyway?
3.Outside revenue streams for teams have nearly tripled the last three years and will take another jump this year. Time Warner knew all of these years that they would dump Braves telecasts. What was in it for them if they put more money into the Braves?
4.Texira is gone after next year. A.Jones will come closer to $20M than he will to 13.5M. If he gets that you know that Tex will get the 20M. Both Mets and Yankees are building new stadiums. When will Big Papi turn into Grand Papi in baseball terms?
Giants paid Barry $16M last season making Andruw’s pay a bargain. Now they’ve freed up that money and look at the foolish contract they gave to Zito.
You develop your young pitchers. Who’s the last starter that we developed? Chuck James spent all of last winter installing windows. Boy let’s not invest time in getting a bit stronger Chuck. Why work on your leg strength a bit so that maybe you can pitch past the fifth inning?
And I’m going to say it here first..Hampton will come back. He’ll get the feel of the mound again in the second half and then free agency will hit and he’ll be gone. Same probably with Gonzalez. As far as these proposed trades go you can’t get people just because you want them. If the Braves really wanted to take a shot at truly getting young pitching then Smoltz would be a Tiger and Hudson a Yankee or a member of the Red Sox. You get what you pay for. And PAY you must. At least that’s what Yoda told me.
By Ain't Happening
October 7, 2007 3:08 AM | Link to this
Glavine, whom I admire simply can’t go back to the Mets. After the final game performance they’d roast him like a Sunday hen. If the Braves don’t re-sign him he’ll retire. The time to sign him was last year (though everyone seems to forget that the genius JS wanted to free up money by trading Hudson)
If you sign him last year you take those victories away from the Mets. This year I think he’ll hang ‘em up. Those three hundred plus games…he won for the BRAVES so lay off of him!
By houston_braves
October 7, 2007 4:05 AM | Link to this
who will atl get from detroit for renteria? you’d have to assume it would be a good starter. i’m not sure escobar is ready for full time duty. there is always the chance that he will hit a 2nd year offensive slump, now that he is known to teams. while his defense isn’t horrible, he did cost atl at least 3 games with this glove this year!
By Sunil C
October 7, 2007 7:06 AM | Link to this
*Mr. Bisher,
Very well wrote blog, lovely word choices, excellent read. Not to mention I agree with going young in starting pitching. I will not mind trading Renty for a very talented young arm*
SC
By My god wake up!
October 7, 2007 7:27 AM | Link to this
Houston_Braves, We’re not talking trade with Detroit and Sunil NOBODY is going to give us a talented young arm for Edgar Renteria!
Dave Dombrowski is the Detroit GM. Remember him for putting the WS winning Marlins team together??? He’s also the guy that put the current Tiger rotation together. Did you see what they did in this years draft? They drafted “unsignable” young pitchers, over paid and signed them. Does that sound like a guy who’s going to give up a good young arm???
The guy COLLECTS young arms, he doesn’t TRADE them!
The title of the blog is KEEP RENTERIA! KEEP, get it? KEEP, KEEP, KEEP RENTERIA.
By Curious?
October 7, 2007 7:32 AM | Link to this
Why do fans think that people should sign at a “discount” to play for the Braves?
By Chris
October 7, 2007 7:38 AM | Link to this
Go with Willie Harris in center. So what if he gives up a half dozen more errors than AJ? He offsets that with 40-50 more points of BA, not to mention speed on the base pads. Keep Renteria and try Yunnel at second. This gives you the potential for an amazing all 300+ infield. 7 mil would probably get Glavine back and yes we need a guy like that. 4th and 5th spots are going to be fine. Chuck James will get back on track, plus we had a bevy of young arms show us a lot of potential, with or without Hampton.
By Jim
October 7, 2007 8:25 AM | Link to this
Trade Renteria and eat a third of his salary if you have to. Pitching will only come by free-agency and there will be some good choices in the $5mil a year area.
Please no Glavine. Hopefully he will have good sense and retire on somewhat of an upnote.
If Hampton comes back with 150 innings the Braves will be just fine.
Centerfield will be the key to the Braves next season. Teixeira will supply Andruw’s numbers, but where will the defense come from? Rowand or Hunter…depending upon the price? Hopefully the Braves have someone in the minors they can go with.
The Mets and Phillies will be full out doubts all of next year and the Braves will win it if they can gains some consistency and get out to April at .667.
If not, then look for wholesale changes for 2009. This team is getting old at key positions to not make every effort for 2008.
By DHD
October 7, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this
I would keep Renteria, put Escobar at second and Kelly Johnson in left instead of signing a center-fielder. I would put Francoeur in center and Diaz/Harris/Brandon Jones in right. Keep Renteria and spend a few bucks on pitching.
By Reid in EAV
October 7, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this
Looks like the copy editor didn’t read the column very well before tacking on the headline. I don’t read Bisher as arguing to keep Renteria, necessarily. In fact, he basically says the opposite: “If the Braves are looking for a place to readjust the payroll, they could deal Renteria and go with the younger and more agile Cuban, Yunel Escobar, for a bundle less. A cruel thought, but baseball is a game that breaks hearts.”
Folks, the columnists generally don’t headline their own pieces. That’s the copy desk’s job. Obviously, in this case.
By lin
October 7, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this
hard choices renteria depends on who they find to pitch for starters need 2 not 1 tom g well want him that bad take him as im sure mike h will need help or use them both in bull pen and bring out some those guys to start in 4th and 5th. does not hurt to experiance that way. as for braves no matter what you do i still say 3rd where they be and 2nd if lucky. they need few more yrs get back to first as they need to rebuild by making many changes and taking chances on young guns.
By owen
October 7, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this
As a Met fan,please take Glavine back.He’s finished.We’ll even throw in the jet skis. (You’ll have to change the logo)
By Elmer
October 7, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this
Keep them all- put Escobar at second, Jeff in center, Kelly J. in right.
By VAHID
October 7, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this
Did WE FORGET OUR PROBLEMS ALREADY???? we are stocked in middle infield and lack pitching..why would we keep 2 short stops and get killed on pitching…TRADE GET PITCHING NOW..NOT LATER …NOW
By VAHID
October 7, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this
TIME TO RETIRE BISHOP, IF YOUR OK WITH PUBLISHING THIS ARTICLE!!!!!!!! AGAIN WE NEED PITCHING NOW!
By VAHID
October 7, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this
TIME TO RETIRE BISHOP, IF YOUR OK WITH PUBLISHING THIS ARTICLE!!!!!!!! AGAIN WE NEED PITCHING NOW!
By owen
October 7, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this
Like I said,take back Glavine…PLEASE
By Nelson
October 7, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this
Elmer is right, as I said before, another choice will be to give an assigment to Thorman to play right field, definetely, Escobar should play every day .Keep Renteria and give him second base, he is already an excellent fielder and Kelly is still learning! so you don’t need to be an expert to take that decision. Glavine will be a good addition as 4th or 5th starter ( better than those we have now), but we desperately need a very good 3rd starter! My last comment on Andrew ( I promise). People are talking about lack of loyalty from the Braves management when they didn’t re-signed Andrew, but what about him, when he refused to improve his home plate approach trying to hit the opposite way?. Do we realy need to keep a player that is reluctant to improve himself and help the team?. Sorry, I don’t think so, Bye Andrew!
By bravesfanbob
October 7, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this
All of you people who say we shouldn’t trade Renteria because he is such a bargain due to the fact that the Red Sox are picking up most of his salary are missing the big picture here. That’s why he will bring so much more in a trade! He is cost effecient, and will bring a bigger return, because the Braves don’t have to trade him in a cost cutting move! This year, rather than next, would be the year we could get the most out of him.
The best place to look for young pitching who has not yet made the major leagues is the San Francisco Giants organization. Their Class low A team, the Augusta Greenjackets, have won more games than any minor league team in all of baseball each of the last 2 years, each time with completely different pitching staffs. The 2006 team went to San Jose for the 2007 season, and won the league championship, and won it all on pitching. The Giants have MANY young arms with no place to go, and in a rebuilding phase, and would be willing to part with a couple of them for established, but not old major leaguers. Names to look for in the Giants organization are, Henry Sosa, (99 mile an hour fast ball, and 74 mile an hour change), Dave McKae, (A Maddux like clone who studies the batters like Maddux), Adam Cowart, (Was moved to San Jose for the playoffs from Augusta, and threw a shutout, and threw 3 perfect innings in the championship 5th game to get the win), and Sergio Romo, (throws a 2 seamer with more movement than any major leaguer I’ve ever seen, and won the California league fireman of the year in his 1st year as a reliever. 1.4 K’s per inning). There are at least 5 more potential major league arms besides those. With Lincicum, Cain, and Zito, the Giants would be willing to part with some of these arms for hitting. The question for the Giants is do they wish to part ways with Omar Vizqel, and take on Renteria, or would they rather have a Kelly Johnson and a Scott Thorman, two younger players with less to offer immediately, but a lot of upside. All of the pitchers listed above are at the most, 1 year away, although some could pitch immediately. The Giants are willing to deal some of these arms if the price is right, and unfortunately for Renteria, (2 years at $12 million for a .333 hitter who can play a potential Gold Glove at shortshop), the price IS right! The Giants would possibly give up Cain or Lincicum for a MONSTER deal, as either of these are replaceable within their organization. I believe that if the Braves offered Renteria, Thorman, and either Chuck James or Jo Jo Reyes to the Giants, and perhaps a minor leaguer, they may be willing to depart with Cain.
By the way, I love Glavine, but he is done. We need a young, great arm, and we need to look to the west.
By Plate Appearance
October 7, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this
KEEP RENTERIA
Keep Renteria! By all means keep Renteria!
He’s been the Braves most consistent player and clutch hitter since coming from the Red Sox. And at his current salary, he’s clearly a bargain.
If any middle infielder is to be traded for young pitching, let it be Kelly Johnson. Oakland would indeed love his OBP.
But why not Glavine AND MADDUX — with Johnson back in the outfield and Escobar at 2B — unless of course a young arm can be obtained without trading away the farm?
I also like the suggestion another blogger made in a recent column to try Lillibridge in CF, who apparently played there in college. He’s ready for a call up based on his minor league production. Why not in CF?
Use someone within the Braves system in CF! Don’t look to “outside” help.
But by all means keep Renteria! He’s a proven RBI man and can help make up for Andruw’s lost RBI production!
By Daniel
October 7, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this
Keep Renteria and put Escobar in 2nd. This combination is stronger than any other than involves Johnson, who can go elsewhere.
By BravesFanSince66
October 7, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this
Boras and his kind are a major reason that baseball has lost all sense of loyalty. Andruw said he wanted to finish with the Braves, but only if they met his price. Anybody really think Andruw is worth $120,000 PER GAME? Heck, Ted Williams reincarnated wouldn’t be worth that much.
By BravesFanSince66
October 7, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this
Boras and his kind are a major reason that baseball has lost all sense of loyalty. Andruw said he wanted to finish with the Braves, but only if they met his price. Anybody really think Andruw is worth $120,000 PER GAME? Heck, Ted Williams reincarnated wouldn’t be worth that much.
Show some continuity and loyalty. Keep Renteria - we need his glove & bat. I agree with others - look inside for CF. Spend the cash on pitching.
By Sam
October 7, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this
Hi Mr. Bisher,
Nice article. I go back when the Braves were in Boston. I would not trade Edgar unless some team offers them a real good number 3 or 4 pitcher. Remember Edgar is not a American League player so it’s got to be with a National League team. I really don’t know who the heck is out there for pitching. Maybe the Giants is the team to trade with. Something tells me that the Bravos will not sign Tex because of Scott Boras.
By JMF
October 7, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this
Trading Renteria defies logic. Where do you find a .330 hitting shortstop at 6 mil. Furthermore who is giving up an ace or a good 3 for Renteria. Escabor should start at second (no platoon) and Diaz should start in left (no platoon). Diaz hit .330 in 06, .340 in 07 and he platooning with a .270 hitter? His stats shows that he hit right handers well (better than the left handers that are platooned). If Glavine is available at 7 mil get him. Starting lineup: Escabar, Renteria, Jones, Tex, Fran, Mac, Diaz and .250 hitting center fielder. A great lineup, great bullpen and with Glavine a fair starting lineup. This will get you to the playoff.
By dorothy davis
October 7, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this
If the Braves are serious about winning next year, they have to keep Renteria and escobar both, in case Chipper gets hurt again. Put escobar at 2nd and johnson in the outfield as a backup in left.And Glavine is worth 8mil. tops. Otherwise, look at the farm teams for pitching.
By Jr Pac Man
October 7, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
Renteria seems to be the odd man out, because he makes a lot of $$$, & the Braves really don’t need him anymore. Escobar will be the Braves everyday SS, & Kelly Johnson will be the everyday 2B. Don’t worry about Chipper. Even if he does miss his usual 30-40 games, hopefully the Braves can count on Martin Prado & Aybar to be the utility infielders. Renteria is still relatively young, (32) & seems to be a better hitter now than ever before. Trade him while his value is at a all time high. A lot of teams will be looking for a solid, starting SS for next season. I think the Braves should be able to get a good starting pitcher in return, or maybe even a starting CF.
By Dreamscape
October 7, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
Just because someone can play a position doesn’t mean he should.
Sure, Francoeur can play center…doesn’t mean he should. Sure, KJ can play left field…doesn’t mean he should.
This isn’t a video game. You can’t throw the guy with 75 athletic ability anywhere and expect him to just perform.
Martin Prado will be a solid backup for the Braves. Put him on the bench, Esco at SS, and KJ at second. Esco doesn’t replace Renty, but if Renty nets just one contributing pitcher for next year, that pitcher + Esco easily outvalues Renty.
By h_charles
October 7, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this
Lillibridge IS NOT READY FOR CF IN ATLANTA!!!
Andruw Jones are enormous shoes to fill. You can’t put that kind of pressue on ANY rookie.
CF must be manned by guy like Cameron, who is solid and stable.
You risk ruining Lillibridge by putting that kind of pressure on him.
By Matt
October 7, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this
“Steve” Boras, classic! Steve….
By Consider this
October 8, 2007 12:48 AM | Link to this
Guys, these players aren’t like little pieces you can put anywhere. Yes, they are amazing athletes, but after not practicing OF for a year and having arm surgery, do you really think KJ can transition easily back to the OF? Or having Yunel play everywhere? Think back to his time at SS, he looked a million times more comfortable while there, don’t groom him to be anything but a SS. You can’t just slide these guys anywhere you want. Positions do matter.