AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2007 > September > 17 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USCan’t cross fingers and hope for Hampton
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Mark Bradley
December 2004: The Braves trade for Tim Hudson and announce their intention to re-deploy closer John Smoltz as a starter. “We’re going back to the old-fashioned way,” GM John Schuerholz says, “with dominant pitching.”
September 2007: The Braves have two stellar starters, which isn’t the same as possessing dominant pitching. The Braves have been really good this year when Smoltz and Hudson start, but that’s only 40 percent of the whole. And that 40 percent has been responsible for 64 percent of this rotation’s quality starts and 55 percent of its wins.
Forget having a No. 3 starter, or even a No. 4. The 2007 Braves tried to fill out their rotation with a No. 5 (Chuck James) and bunch of No. 6s (Mark Redman, Lance Cormier, Buddy Carlyle). This season died when Mike Hampton hurt himself yet again and was buried when Kyle Davies became a nervous wreck.
For the second year running, the Braves have hit well enough to be a playoff team but won’t qualify because they haven’t pitched. For the better part of 15 years, we around here were treated to rotations where guys like Smoltz and Steve Avery and Kevin Millwood were billed as the No. 4 starter. Asked Monday if that had spoiled us, Braves and fans alike, Chipper Jones laughed and said, “Tex, why don’t you answer that?”
Standing nearby, Mark Teixeira conceded the Texas Rangers weren’t exactly four-deep in starting pitching. “We weren’t even ‘a’-deep,” he said. “When Kenny Rogers left, we lost our ace.”
The good news for the Braves going forward is that they have two aces under contract for next season. The bad news is that there’s no hot young pitcher on the order of Phil Hughes (Yankees) or Tim Lincecum (Giants) or even Mike Pelfrey (Mets) in the chain. The bad news is that the Braves could well be tempted to pencil in Mike Hampton, who hasn’t pitched since August 2005, as their No. 3 man. This should not happen. This cannot happen.
The Braves have gone too long waiting for Hampton to heal (and to justify his immense salary, which will be $15 million in 2008). If he heals and wins 15, great. But such a possibility shouldn’t prevent the team from making every effort to sign or trade for a bona fide over the winter. That, see, has been the problem. The last big-time starting pitcher the Braves acquired was Hudson.
Said Jones: “I can’t say I wouldn’t like an insurance policy. That way if Hamp doesn’t make it back, we’re covered. If he does, that makes us instant contenders.”
The plan is for Hampton to pitch somewhere over the winter. “So we’ll have an idea [going into spring training],” Bobby Cox said. But crossing your fingers isn’t a strategy. The Braves must actively pursue another arm to slot behind Smoltz and Hudson and in front of Hampton and James. (Joe Blanton of the A’s, say.) And no, arms never come cheap, but we’ve seen these last two years the cost of simply trying to make do.
“We should have a good club next year,” Cox said, but a club is only as strong as its rotation. Nobody knows that better than this organization, which rode its various rotations to 14 division titles. Said Jones: “We had it a certain way for so long, but when the names on the back of the jerseys changed, we became accustomed to a different lifestyle between the lines.”
The last two weeks of September used to be the time when Cox rested some regulars and set his rotation for the postseason. For the second year in a row, the shank of September is now an occasion for pondering what might have been. The Braves haven’t won more than three consecutive games since the weekend after the All-Star break, and that makes perfect sense.
Winning streaks are a function of rotations. This rotation was dysfunctional. It’s time to fix it.
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By Tyler
September 17, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this
You are absolutely right. Pitching is the backbone of the team. I think 2 pitching moves need to happen this offseason, including a #2 or better and a young #3 or #4.
Edgar could be traded, but Escobar could be too since Lillbridge is developing very well. Escobar and Chuck James for Matt Cain and Rajai Davis? As for another ace: We need a guy like C.C. Sabathia, Carmona, Oswalt-someone that can come in when Smoltz retires.
The offense will shape itself, and CF won’t be easy to fill, but there are many options.
By JD
September 17, 2007 9:44 PM | Link to this
Mark, you’re right that the rotation needs fixing. However, identifying the problem is only 1/2 of the equation. There must be a solution to the problem and Joe Blanton is not a solution. The real issue is that the Braves have not really drafted and developed a top of the rotation guy in a long time. I think it’s weird only because they have done so well with every other position. Until they finally fix the problem of no pitchers in the minors, they will continue to struggle.
By keylargo25
September 17, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this
Braves win tonight drives home the fact that positions 3 - 12 next year will be an open competition. Hampton is the most perplexing of all the variables and a trade for a #3 is almost a must. No one on the staff is dependable enough for the role. Hopefully some of the injured will come back stronger than ever.
By TennesseePaul
September 17, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this
Pitching, pitching, pitching. It’ll have to come via trade if we are to get any worth anything. And after the Teixeira deal, who’s left to trade? Renteria alone isn’t going to pull in the right arms. Should make for an interesting off-season.
By Indybravesfan
September 17, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this
I agree! Forget Hampton! What a waste of money and time. He should offer ALL of his salary back to the club and pitch for free next year, he owes the team and the city that much. He has wasted enough of our money. Jake Peavy would be a great fit in an Atlanta uni.
By Najeh Davenpoop
September 17, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this
Maybe if we had kept our #1 trade asset, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, we might have been able to trade for that elusive #1C starter behind #1A (Smoltz) and #1B (Hudson) this offseason. Instead, we got a guy who will be really productive for one more year before the Atlanta Tax Write-offs can’t afford him anymore and he signs with the Yankees. Would we really have been worse off showcasing Salty at 1B the rest of this season and trading him in the winter? I don’t think so. Smooth move, Schuerholz.
By Rick in Dallas
September 17, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this
With too many good middle infielders and too few pitcher, the Braves could get a number 3 for Jonhson or Rentria. How about taking Andruw Jones money and give 10 mill of it to t
By Ric in Dallas
September 17, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this
Take part of Andruw Jones money give 10 million to Tom Glavine who wants to finish his playing days in Atlanta. Save 3 million over A. Jones and go from there. Not so hard. Smoltz-Hudson-Glavine-Hampton and Pat Jarvis…What the Heck!
By gotigers72
September 17, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this
Amen brother! You hit the nail on the head. 3-5 starters have absolutely killed this team’s chances of making the playoffs. They need to get at least one STRONG starter over the winter, and the cost will be high as it always is for starting pitching.
You were also right about Hampton. Either he will be rusty from not pitching in 2 years, or he’ll blow an elbow/shoulder out again. Get us some pitching for next year JS. We’ll have the bats. It might be the last year we have all of those bats with Teixeira being a free agent after next year.
By Tony LaRussa
September 17, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this
Wonder if you would have been any better if you had Adam Wainwright this year. We got JS to take JDD off our hands in the past. HA HA.
Looks like Texas did the same to you this year. Will you ever learn? Of course you will have Tex next year. What was your record since y’all got Tex?
The farm system does a good job for you and you must draft well. Thank Bobby for some of that. But if you keep giving them away each year to rent a player….well ask the Dodgers.
Give us a call when you restock.
Love,
Tony
By submariner
September 17, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this
They should let AJ walk, if he won’t come back for a 1 year deal on the cheap. They’ve got to sign Texeria. Getting him in 2008 through arbitration will be cheaper than allocating a ton of cash now. They can get him done after the season or after the all-star break next year. I would like to see them do a deal for Santana. I want hard throwers, like Smoltz. That’s the reason why he’s still here and Maddux and Glavine are gone. We need a guy who can hump it up there and blow it buy you when he needs to and they have got to get a lefty that can do it and do it consistantly to offset Hudson and Smoltz. You really can’t blame the front office for not trying to get the bullpen squared away. They did more this year to set up the 7th, 8th and 9th than I’ve ever seen them do. Injuries are just something that happens and unfortunately, some of the studs they aquired had some issues. The only deal I questioned in the pen was trading for Dotel. He might have been damaged goods from the get go. Without Gonzales, they really were exposed in the pen and Soriono got called on too much. Get me a hard throwing lefty, dump Hampton and get Gonzo healthy and we’re in there. Even without AJ, you could put Harris in center and still have plenty offense to win. I agree, we need starting pitching bad!
By Lee
September 17, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this
hit the nail on the head mark
By Tony LaRussa
September 17, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this
Anyone else having trouble posting?
By Topher24
September 17, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this
I agree, but what exactly do you propose the Braves do to fix it? Saying it and doing it are very different things. Blanton? Who can we trade for Blanton now that our numbers 1,2, and 3 prospects are gone? Do we trade Renteria for Blanton? Maybe we revisit the Renteria for Garland deal and hope that Garland can make it happen. Maybe we sign Tom Glavine and hope he can give us one more sensational year. Liberty seems willing to let McGuirk put some more funds on the table, but will it be enough to ensure at least one more quality starter, and keep both A.J. and Tex around (at least one of them anyway)? I don’t know, and neither does Scheurholz or anyone else, I imagine.
By Chopper Chick
September 17, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this
I don’t want to throw Hamp under the bus but I have to agree (and have said so several times) that it is foolish to count on him next year. Unfortunately we haven’t drafted pitchers ready to help us recently. We’ve also traded, foolishly or not that’s another post, several arms that are making an impact with other organizations. We have some outstanding bat talent and I hope the talk of trading Renteria is premature. Pitching arms are fragile and I recall our esteemed sports writers repeatedly writing of Cox beaming during spring training with the pitching he had. The pitching plane went down in flames but the bat talent stayed and lived up to more than its billing. It will be an interesting off season and we all will be eagerly awaiting JS to find the arms again to win the division. Don’t sacrifice too many bats for frail arms.
By KW
September 17, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this
Even if the Braves improve in 2008 will it be enough to overcome the Mets of this year? What about next year considering the Mets won’t stand still, and they have a better farm system? Do the Braves even have enough in their farm system to keep themselves going in case their plans go awry next year—again? Do they even have enough to win the wildcard????
There needs to be major changes to the club and I don’t know if they have enough to decimate the farm system again…
By Jeremy Foster
September 17, 2007 11:48 PM | Link to this
I really think that the way this season developed that this what will happen with the Braves for next season.
Andruw won’t be back, Frenchy to Center or Kelly?
Escobar to play everyday either at short or 2nd.
Renteria is traded for a solid 2 starter (insert Schuerholz Magic here). If this happens Escobar to play SS and Kelly stays at 2nd.
If #3 happens then Willie Harris/Brandon Jones to compete for CF with possibility of Mike Cameron/Aaron Rowland to sign.
With Andruw not re-signing opens up possible long term signing of Teixeira and moving of Renteria.
Thorman in the mix somewhere via trade or back to OF. Someone will take a chance with him.
As Dennis Miller said, “That’s just my opinion I could be wrong!”
By submariner
September 17, 2007 11:59 PM | Link to this
Dump Hampton, let AJ walk, start Harris in center, get Gonzo healthy and plan to sign Texeria. Then get a deal done to trade for and sign Johan Santana. Boom! Your back in contention. They could even package up a deal including Renteria, and start Escobar at short to cut payroll, although Atlanta got Boston to pick up most of his pay. On paper, Escobar seems a good successor to Chipper, but he has had problems on the “Hot Corner”. Offense isn’t the issue, although getting Texeria long term is a must. We need to be thinking about the future here too and Chipper is almost done. Texeria is the real deal!
By Adirondackdave
September 18, 2007 12:05 AM | Link to this
The Braves need more than one starter. They need a near-ace and a second innings-eater who can keep them in at least half the games he pitches. Relying on Hampton for anything and James for more than #5 is just wishful thinking.
And for the offense… I’d be happy to see Johnson in left with Escobar at second until Edgar is gone. Extend Tex, let AJ go and try for Hunter or Roland.
By Taylor
September 18, 2007 12:29 AM | Link to this
GO BRAVES!
By George "Boston Brave"Spitz
September 18, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this
In 1937, the Boston Braves rotation featured rookies no less, Lou Fette who won 20 games and Jim Turner, winner of 21. Yet they finished in 5th place. After the war it was “Spahn (Warren)and Sain (Johnny) and pray for rain.” However, they did obtain Lou Burdette and won the pennant in 1948, the last one before moving to Milwaukee in 1953, where thanks to Spahn, Burdette, and Bob Buhl, helped on occassion by back of rotation Ernie Johnson and Gene Conley they won two pennants and one world series. The lessons are obvious, at least one more premium starter would be very helpful in 2008. But, please John Scheuerholtz don’t give up Yuniel Escobar.
By Coach (Lets Go Braves In 2008)
September 18, 2007 1:03 AM | Link to this
Agreed , lets fix it.
By Michael
September 18, 2007 1:19 AM | Link to this
This is a layup article. Every Braves fan knows that the starting pitching has been subpar this year. Question is: who do you acquire someone and who? Blanton, Garland, Westbrook, Peavy? All are in walk years. How? Prospects? We’re a little thin after the Teixeria trade. Current Players? Well, we have Renteria or Yunel and bullpen depth. Maybe it’s me, but I expect a little more from my beat writer.
By I Love the 90's
September 18, 2007 2:21 AM | Link to this
Bring back Glavine and Maddux! Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton, Mad Dog, Chuck James in the pen and a 6th starter. And please no Blaine Boyer in the rotation as a starter. I know he’s a starter in Richmond, please no!
By cashmere
September 18, 2007 2:38 AM | Link to this
first
By jarrodmon
September 18, 2007 3:04 AM | Link to this
Tex was a nice pickup, but it should have been a pitcher. After Smoltz, Hudson and James (who will be a career .500 most likely) the Braves have two probable losses in their rotation. With Ted Turner out of the equation it comes down to ownership wanting to win bad enough and this ownership is happy with an 81 win team.
By Braves Fan 79
September 18, 2007 5:00 AM | Link to this
Why dont u ask Bobby cox why in the world he choose woodcrap and orr to be on the team over a .350 hitting escobar coming out of spring training!??
That to me…is why were not at least tied with the padres right now! Everyone wants to blame starting pitching….but if we didnt start off the year with such a TERRIBLE bench….we would of won at least 5 more games before the all star break!
By FSSikes
September 18, 2007 6:22 AM | Link to this
Go for it Schuerholz! Bring the Braves back to their glory days.
By Brian
September 18, 2007 7:15 AM | Link to this
Use the money freed up from Andrew Jones to sign a picture. Be creative
By MACMARINE
September 18, 2007 7:23 AM | Link to this
NOT ONLY DO WE NEED TO TRADE FOR A QUALITY STARTER FOR NEXT SEASON, WE NEED A QUALITY MANAGER. IT DOSEN’T MATTER THAT ALL PLAYERS LIKE TO PLAY FOR COX, THAT DOSEN’T GET YOU TO PLAYOFFS. PEOPLE SAY THE MANAGER DOSEN’T PLAY SO HE CAN’T LOSE GAMES,THAT JUST ISN’T TRUE, COX HAS LOST MORE GAMES BY HIS MOVES (OR LACK OF)THAN WINS. TIME FOR COX TO SLIDE ON TO THE FARM.
By Jim
September 18, 2007 7:38 AM | Link to this
Mark, You’re a friggin’ genius. How did you figure this out all by yourself?
By Des
September 18, 2007 7:46 AM | Link to this
Leo where are you? Oh yea he’s turning Bedard into a future Cy Young winner, when that could have been Kyle Davies.
By Jason J.
September 18, 2007 8:21 AM | Link to this
1st? I agree completely! The Braves need an ACTUAL #3 behind Smoltz and Hudson but not for the cost of a #1. The economics of MLB is so out of whack due to GM’s making insane deals to sub .500 pitchers with above 4.00 era’s. I wish I could be just good enough to be the worst pitcher in the game and still continue to rake in the money!
By JordanPTC
September 18, 2007 8:24 AM | Link to this
first
By Bopro
September 18, 2007 8:29 AM | Link to this
Great column. I couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately, the Braves will have to give up Renteria to get that number 3 pitcher. Hate to see him go but Escobar is ready to step in. Since pitching is at such a premium, I’m anxious to see who JS will bring in and who we will lose to get him. Hampton was never really an “ace” to begin with so I’m wouldn’t hitch my wagon to anything he will do. The team needs to operate as if he will be an expensive cheerleader again next year and try to get someone else. No matter what, I’ll stay optimistic about next season. Go Braves!
By Kelley
September 18, 2007 8:57 AM | Link to this
Who is this Mike Hampton that you speak of? Is it that guy I always see sitting in the dugout milking the club of money and coming down with injury after injury year after year? If Mike Hampton pitches next year and I’m at the Ted and he has a bad game, you better believe he’s getting an earful from me.
Great article. The Braves have GOT to get a starter in the off season.
I have always been a big Andruw fan, and still am, but really see no way the Braves can keep him. Even if he comes off his asking price a little bit, isn’t that money that would be more well spent on a starter?
His defense is better than anyone’s; but I’m to the point now with Andruw that when he comes to the plate with runners in scoring position and less than two out, I’m just happy if he doesn’t hit into a double play, is that the kind of guy you spend tens of millions on?
I know Bobby loves Andruw, which really makes me want him to stay, I think that much of Bobby’s opinion; but I just don’t see how you spend that much of the payroll on him when you need starters.
By h_charles
September 18, 2007 8:59 AM | Link to this
Very true, but certainly not earthshaking news. This has been well known since the first month of the season.
There is hope. Renteria could bring a quality #3. WHen AJ leaves, cash could be freed up as well, but the cost of starting pitching on the open market still may be too high.
The big problem is this organization’s absolute inability to develop a top-end starter.
Where are our Cole Hamels? John Maines? Rich Hills?
This organization has been absolutely PATHETIC when it comes to developing starters, and despite the fact that we haven’t produced a legit one since Schmidt, we wasted our top 3 draft picks this year on position players!!! To top it off, we traded our top starting pitching prospect to Texas.
The cupboard is bare for near future. Unless we can get a real arm for Edgar, next year will be a long season again.
By Scott
September 18, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this
With Andruw’s salary freed up next season (no, he won’t be re-signed), we should be able to go out and acquire 1 or 2 solid starters. Our dominance over the years has been a result of our pitching. Our struggles have been a result of sub-par pitching. Pitching wins…this organization has proven that.
By King Nick Saban
September 18, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this
i am first AND the god of football
By D-Man
September 18, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this
We can only hope that Liberty will loosen the purse strings abit and make it possible to get what we need. Also…we have been lucky this year that no major injuries have occured to either Smoltz or Hudson..will we be so lucky next year? What if next year is the year that Smoltz’s aging body finally breaks down? No, I think we need more than one extra arm..I would shoot for two..we cannot count on Smotlz to last forever. Not only that…but Hudson has proven he can have injuries as well (last year). To get back to where we were before, we will need at least 4 quality starters…
By BringBackTommy
September 18, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this
Very simple. Bring Tommy back for one more year. Pay him $10 million. He is more than worth it.
He retires as a Brave and he helps the rotation.
By STRETCH
September 18, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this
I agree. But does anyone out there know about or has heard any rumors? Anybody got any ideas?
By Matt the Brave
September 18, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this
I think that I might be first today…the Braves rotation after Smoltz and Hudson has been atrocious. Of course, this might have been alleviated by at least pursuing some of the pitchers that had been cut after the trade deadline. I mean, it couldn’t get any worse than what we had been getting out of our #4 and #5. Carlyle is a good answer for the #4 next year. He may not win a ton of games, but he’s usually putting in around 6 innings, has some spark (got thrown out of a game a few starts ago), and does pitch some quality ball from time to time. However, that said, if the Braves could find two better quality starters so Carlyle would be the #5, all the better.
By VaBravesfan
September 18, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this
I agree with you 1000%, but unfortunately most teams don’t trade quality starters unless they are on the short end of a contract. And apparently, the Braves can’t afford expensive free agents. So what do we do?
By Mike
September 18, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this
Well said!!!
By Randy
September 18, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this
Agreed.
By Alan
September 18, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this
You’re 100% correct, Mark. The Braves’ rotation was (still is, of course) dysfunctional. Last year, the bullpen was so bad that Schuerholz spent the offseason strengthening it, for which he deserves credit - but he did nothing significant to upgrade the starting pitching. In mid-season this year, it was obvious the Braves needed to beef up the rotation, but it didn’t happen. Schuerholz says he tried, and he probably did. But how hard? I applauded the trade for Teixeira, but why couldn’t he land a veteran starter? We all heard the rumors - Renteria for Garland (which would have been a steal for the ChiSox) - and we also heard Joe Blanton’s name and Ian Snell’s, among others - but nothing happened. I believe this offseason the Braves will indeed address this glaring deficiency - but my concern is that their most tradeable player (Renteria) is way too valuable to give up - especially for someone else’s #3 or #4 starter. I’d much rather see the Braves go after an affordable free agent (Glavine?) or two with the money they’ll save after Andruw Jones departs. In any case, this should be a very interesting offseason.
By pat
September 18, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this
Duh…
By Matt
September 18, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this
As much as I love the way the guy plays, Renteria is great trade bait for a starter right now. Escobar at short won’t drop off too much, and we have plenty of offense if the pitching is there. The lineup looks good even without Renteria. We need a starter!
By sammy miller
September 18, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this
First! Sam i am!
By KC
September 18, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this
Bradely: The plan is for Hampton to pitch somewhere over the winter. “So we’ll have an idea [going into spring training],” Bobby Cox said. But crossing your fingers isn’t a strategy. The Braves must actively pursue another arm to slot behind Smoltz and Hudson and in front of Hampton and James.
Gee… why didn’t John Schuerholz think of that?
That must be the reason we didn’t acquire another quality starter this year… it just didn’t occur to the Braves to do so.
By Gary
September 18, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
Sure, another great arm is a no-brainer. What team in baseball isn’t looking for another 15-game winner. Our problem is what we have to give up to get one. Rent? I’d hate to lose his bat and leadership. Another prospect? Now you risk the future. Unless the new owners are willing to expand the payroll, it will take luck to find another rotation like we had in the ’90s without sacrificing the great offense we have now.
By Mario
September 18, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this
I think we place too much emphasis on the downfall of the 07’ Braves being solely blamed on starting pitching. True enough, pitching was a factor, but offensive inconsistancies and the bullpen had a factor as well. On paper, the 07’ Braves have one of the best lineup in baseball. Andrew Jones and his season funk created 2-number 9 spots in our lineup and that’s not good. One day, we score 15 runs, then score nothing. Then the next day, it’s the bullpen. It’s just been a combination of things not working.
By George
September 18, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this
Sir,
Your observations are well stated. However how is the task to be accomplished? 1. Free Agent: Rumor has it that the new ownership is reducing payroll. Where do you find the money to pursue help? 2. Farm System: Several have been tried already and failed. 3. Trade: Most likely option with Renteria being the best offer.
With that all said I am still a fan of 42 years and look forward to 2008.
By Gary
September 18, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this
Okay, so you think the Braves should pitch for a quality starter. Only two questions:
Trading for Tex took a lot. Do the Braves really have a deep enough list of prospects to trade away another four or five? Sign and trade Andruw?
By The Dust
September 18, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this
Absolutely. Bring in a Jon Garland (a guy who up until this year has won 18+ games on a consistent basis). Or, here’s an idea, BRING BACK GLAVINE! The difference in this season was not bringing Glavine back. Think about it, the Mets don’t have him and we do. We would be heading to another post season, and have a great chance of walking away with another NL pennant possibly a World Championship.
By braint
September 18, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this
Amen Bradley. Pitching wins. It’s as simple as that. Also, it would help if your #2 starter doesn’t have more RBI’s or a higher average than everyone on your bench. This bench has got to be the worst (statistically)I’ve ever seen on a MLB roster. Can we get some stats on that anyone?
By The Dust
September 18, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this
Absolutely. Bring in a Jon Garland (a guy who up until this year has won 18+ games on a consistent basis). Or, here’s an idea, BRING BACK GLAVINE! The difference in this season was not bringing Glavine back. Think about it, the Mets don’t have him and we do. We would be heading to another post season, and have a great chance of walking away with another NL pennant possibly a World Championship.
By Ryder
September 18, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this
I agree, Hampton is damaged goods. A team like Atlanta knows they are just one 15-win starter away from being back in the thick of things next year. Gonzalez will be back to strengthen the bullpen, and I trust that Schuerholz will do what’s necessary to get another starter for this team.
By dack jerrick
September 18, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this
To quote Thomas Wolfe: “too bad, too bad, too bad”.
By Jay Dub
September 18, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
Uh, thanks for the obvious, pal.
By Jeff R
September 18, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this
Absolutely. A team needs four solid starters anda a capable bullpen to be in the hunt. The idea that bats are going to carry a team is foolish.
Smoltz and Hudson are solid. James, I think, will have a better 2008, though I believe he’s a back-of-the-rotation pitcher.
The key will Liberty Media. Is it willing to up the Braves payroll in any meaningful way? $80 million a year (current) budget) will make even less sense in next year’s market. Management can forgo signing Andruw (which, unfortunately, is a sensible move), but will make a strong effort at signing Texeria. The money for the first baseman would be better spent on pitching, but management can’t afford to be criticized for having made a rent-a-player deal, so Tex is likely to get a fat contract.
That leaves it to Liberty Media to give the Braves the leeway financially to sign or trade for one, possibly two, qulaity starters.
Hampton, until he proves otherwise, and not just over the winter, needs to be a “maybe” in the 5 slot.
By jeff
September 18, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
Bradley’s right: the Braves have to spend money to bring a couple of young arms to Atlanta. With Andruw as good as gone, perhaps we can use some of his salary to do it.
By FSSikes
September 18, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
Go Brovos!
By Rick
September 18, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this
In the old days, the Braves’ pitching strategy was “Spahn and Sain and pray for rain.” This year it’s been “Smoltzie and Huddy and pray it gets muddy.”
By VaBravesfan
September 18, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this
Maybe the Braves can get a quality #3 starter for Renteria over the winter. He’s about the only trading chip we have on this team. Hopefully Andruw will sign and Hampton will come back healthy. Gonzales will be back with some others in the bullpen. I think they can be a good team. If some things can go their way and they get another pitcher. Who knows?
By Mark Lemke
September 18, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this
Agreed Mark. No matter how much firepower a team has they will not be successful in today’s MLB without quality pitching. If you dont have good pitchers to pitch to a teams 6, 7, 8 (obviously the 1-5 are good) day in and day out you make it extremely hard to win because today’s teams from 1-8 are more well put together than ever. So a team with decent pitching and decent hitting will beat a team with alot of pop but no pitching. good Pitching usually can beat good hitting or at least contain it for the offense to have a reasonable chance to win.
By Eugene
September 18, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
Now that Time Warner is no longer pinching pennies, maybe now we can improve our team. We need to resign Andruw. But not at 18-to 20 mil. Trade for someone who can eat up innings and give us quality starts. Maybe The GM can do the magic he is known for..
By ebineezer
September 18, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this
There is a lot of blame to go around besides the starting pitching. If the Braves just split their one run games, the Braves are in the thick of the playoff hunt. Can we say the bullpen or some clutch hitting late in the game. How many games did it cost Atlanta having Andrew batting clean up? At least 4 or 5. What about Bobby Cox, can he share some of the blame. He could have moved Andrew sooner or not played him at all and let some of the others with a bat drive in some of those winning runs. What about how he handled the bullpen? Doggedly sticking with Wickman to the end. The mess that was 1st base before Tex came over, how many games did that cost the Braves? Lets say Andrew cost the Braves just 2 games, the 1st base mess 2 games, lets give Cox and Wickman 1 game each. Thats 6 games. Six games in the win column puts the Braves in the heat of the penant race.
I would also argue that most teams #1 and #2 pitchers are going to win and have more “quality starts” than the rest of the staff. If they didn’t that would be something to write about. The fact that they do is the norm.
By Boo
September 18, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this
You are correct, sir!
By Chris
September 18, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this
I feel pitching should be the sole priority this offseason. Let Andruw walk and take the chance Brandon Jones can fill the role and use the money to try to get Johan Santana but only if he signs an extention. There needs to be insurance because how much longer is Smoltz going to go?
By MIKE HARTZELL
September 18, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
The problem with signing or trading for a good starting pitcher is that there are 20 plus other teams looking for the same thing. Pitching has never been at more of a premium. Is Hampton going to be healthy? Who knows. Is he worth 15mil? Probably not, but then again, is his upside and potential, still better then what might be out there or available? The Bravos have traded or lost Millwood, Marguis, Glavine, Maddux, etc, etc, and it seems there are no Avery’s ready to step up. Davies never panned out and was once considered our top prospect. The Braves should concentrate on trying to secure Texiera, let Andrew leave, try to find a center fielder, or move Francure there and look for a right fielder, (but its a plus having his arm in right). Maybe you could trade Renteria for pitching and keep Escobar at SS.There doesn’t seem to be anybody in the pen that could move in the rotation and Smoltzie (my hero,,,what a stud!) isn’t exactly young. Its a tough dilema. We NEED pitching, but so does every other team. But if I trusted one man to pull it off, it would be Mr. Scherholtz.
By Tilly
September 18, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this
Yep, couldn’t agree more.
By Bob Montag
September 18, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
Please, no Hampton,no Andruw and No Bobby would greatly improve this team.
By macdwolfpack
September 18, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this
Mark, very accurate article. I would add though that the Braves not only need starting pitchers (2 preferably) to add to their rotation but they need for them to be two starting pitchers that have quite a few years left in them. With Smoltz over 40 and a recent injury history there is no guarantee he’ll be healthy a full season next year either or that after next year he’ll even be around. So we need two pitchers and they need to be preferably younger starters.
I don’t though expect JS to address this fully because he hasn’t shown the ability over the last 3-4 to be able to accurately assess this club’s needs and make the needed adjustments. Yes he’s made tweaks here and there but he’s failed to address all the contingincies of a full season and putting the best total product on the field.
This club was flawed from the start of the season and JS failed as he always does to adequately address it’s shortcomings during the season. Yes he added Tex, but that still left the glaring hole in the rotation.
I’m just not opotimistic about next year with JS and BC returning. Feel the game and the Mets/Phillies have passed them by.
By marvin drazin
September 18, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this
wonderful comments by writer
By Big Mac
September 18, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this
The obvious choice for #3 is unfortunately pitching for the Cardinals in Adam Wainwright which we gave away in the Drew mess. Losing Matt Harrison will come back to haunt us in the same way in 2 years. Too bad on Davies being a head case, but he fits in the same catagory as Kevin Millwood, Juan Cruz, Bruce Chen & Horatio Ramirez as million dollar arms connected to a 10 cent brain. I don’t know who the answer will be, but no matter how much I like Hampton’s competitiveness & fire, I can’t bet on his return in the rotation. I think that JS & COX have given away too much in the last few years in trades to bring in the standard of excellence we need on the mound.
By Marty
September 18, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this
Mark, You are exactly correct. Now that we have defined the problem, how can it be corrected. Everybody in the league needs starting pitching, everybody! The free agent market this winter doesn’t seem to promising and we have traded a good portion of our top prospects for Tex. Is there a possibility of a Richmond pitcher stepping up next year? After all they did win the International league championship. How about the option of Peter Moylan filling a starting spot? Usually a side-arm pitcher can pitch more innings than he is now. Please spend some time over the next couple of months and let us know what our real options are. Thanks.
By nolzfaninbamacountry
September 18, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this
WOW I GET TO BE 1ST………
Seriously, it’s been a shame to see the way the face of the Braves has changed the last several years…
Pitching ARGUABLY carried the teams during the pennant years. I think however, that we will NEVER see a team that had the Hall of Fame staff that we did during this run…The early 1970’s Baltimore Orioles had a dominant staff of 3 20 game winners. The point I’m trying to make is that these type of staffs comes along once every 30 years.
I think that what helped these piching-rich Braves teams, was the fact that our farm system was so strong, that we could hire a hired gun for a few prospects. It worked for 14 years………QUALITY WISE the farm system has given us the future face of the Braves, but do we still have the DEPTH to go out and trade for help.
While so many questions/blame can go around about this year and why it went the way it did. This isn’t the post to go into all of it. I do have a couple of points of observation I’d like to make/suggest.
First of all, BYE-BYE ANDRUW
You gave us 10+ years of exciting defensive baseball, the likes of which we may never see again. However, offensively you’ve killed us the last 2 years. You can tell when it’s time to go. Good luck, No hard feelings, and hopefully you will re-emerge as the superstar you once were……
2nd. LET’S GIVE LIBERTY A CHANCE If the TEX trade is any indication, they’ll be willing to spend a little money if that’s what it takes.
By dumping Andruw’s salary, that doesn’t really save any money, because we now have to pay Hampton’s salary. So it has to come with a trade with prospects. The only quality expendable player we have is Renteria. Would he be enough along with a couple of prospects to acquire a quality pitcher..
Schuerholz surprised us with a few trades last year. With Liberty loosening up the strings a little, I feel confident that we will acquire at least 1 starter.
I thing next year will be the changing of the guard in Atlanta Braves baseball. I think that next year will be Smoltz’s & possibly Chipper’s as well last year with the Braves……We have a lot of young talent ready to step up and be leaders for this organization.
By Canada
September 18, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this
When Gonzales and Dotel come back the ‘pen is well. All we need is one starter between Hudson, Smoltz and James who isn’t dog meat and we’re back. This year was Alpo city. Yuck.
By Kurdistan
September 18, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this
By the by, didn’t you write this same column about a month ago?
By bob
September 18, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this
MARK WHY NOT JUST GO AHEAD AND TELL THE BRAVES WHICH PITCHER THEY SHOULD HIRE.YOU SEEM TO BE AN EXPERT IN THIS FIELD AS THE FALCONS TOOK YOUR ADVICE AND HIRED LEFTWICH WHO MUST BE A REAL WINNER AS THE JAQUARS COULD NOT GET RID OF HIM FAST ENOUGH.YOU MUST HAVE HAD A HAND ALSO IN THE SELECTION OF OUR NEW KICKER.THERE IS NO HOPE FOR THIS TEAM THIS YEAR OR IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
By jc
September 18, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this
Mark, who are the other possible free agents this off-season that could help? With the almost certainty of Andruw gone, we should have the money to get a couple of 3/4 rotation starters.
By Mark Bradley
September 18, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this
The biggest free-agent names are Bartolo Colon, Curt Schilling and Jason Jennings. But Terry McGuirk has already said the free-agent market is the worst way to go, so that would indicate the Braves are more likely to make a trade. Can you get a No. 3 starter for Edgar Renteria? I doubt it. And who else is there to trade? Kelly Johnson? Matt Diaz? Peter Moylan? Brandon Jones? I’m afraid any trade for a good starting pitcher would have to include Yunel Escobar, and that would leave almost nothing in the farm system.
By Torpedo
September 18, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this
Trade Renteria for a good pitcher, trade him while he is worth something to another team. Escobar seems to be the real deal as of right now.
By KC
September 18, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this
Starters are hard to come by. And while free agency may not be a great way to go in general… I’m sure a great deal of thought will be given to making an offer to Tom Glavine.
As for trade possibilities… as much as you hate to part with him, if the Braves have a chance to get a top-of-rotation (or close to that caliber) starter, and they have to part with Escobar to make it happen… they should.
If Cinci had a change of heart on Arroyo, I’d give them Escobar and a couple other (lesser) players in return. It all comes down to pitching. As much as I would hate to see Escobar go… we can win without Escobar. We CANNOT win without fixing the 3-5 slots in our rotation.
If Escobar were dealt, we’d still have Renteria for another year, and hopefully Lillibridge will be ready after that.
By raymond
September 18, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this
I agre wiht Big mac. Our #3 guy is named Wainright, but he pitches for the Cards (we got basically nothing back) Marquis, lost in same deal, is our #4. Belisle or Miner could be #5s. Oh, we gave them away also ! Mostly becasue of a low budget and an overrated GM
By KC
September 18, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this
Mark B: I’m not sure that you’ll read this and even less certain that you’ll respond, but…
I feel compelled to point out that your column may be a bit misleading… and if I’m going to be candid, it smacks of arrogance.
“The bad news is that the Braves could well be tempted to pencil in Mike Hampton, who hasn’t pitched since August 2005, as their No. 3 man.”
“The plan is for Hampton to pitch somewhere over the winter. “So we’ll have an idea [going into spring training],” Bobby Cox said. But crossing your fingers isn’t a strategy. The Braves must actively pursue another arm to slot behind Smoltz and Hudson and in front of Hampton and James. (Joe Blanton of the A’s, say.) And no, arms never come cheap, but we’ve seen these last two years the cost of simply trying to make do.”
Yes, the plan for MIKE HAMPTON is to see how he does in his comeback efforts over the winter. He didn’t say “our master plan for the ROTATION is to wait and see how Hampton’s doing”.
When Schuerholz has been asked about Hampton, he has openly said that he’s just doesn’t know what to expect. While he doesn’t seem pessimistic about Hampton’s return, there were no traces of the kind of optimism that would indicate a return to the pre-2006 bank-on-Hampton approach.
No one in the Braves organization (from what I’ve heard) seems to feel that relying on Hampton would be a prudent thing to repeat. And I’m not sure what might have given you that impression.
“The Braves have gone too long waiting for Hampton to heal (and to justify his immense salary, which will be $15 million in 2008). If he heals and wins 15, great. But such a possibility shouldn’t prevent the team from making every effort to sign or trade for a bona fide over the winter. That, see, has been the problem. The last big-time starting pitcher the Braves acquired was Hudson.”
All indications from many reliable sources (including a couple of your colleagues at the AJC) are that John Schuerholz was in the middle of ANY discussion there was to be had about a quality starting pitcher.
I think Schuerholz’s quote was something along the lines of (paraphrasing) “If he’s breathing and can pitch, we’ve inquired about him”. He mentioned one pitcher by name (“Mark Buehrle”) that they aggressively pursued and really thought they might land.
Why should anyone think things will be different this winter? Mark, regardless of how Hampton looks, do you seriously believe the Braves and John Schuerholz are going to be any less aggressive in their pursuit of a starter this winter than they were at the deadline?
Your column could leave the casual fan with the impression that the Braves have failed to make pitching a great enough priority. You almost seem to be lecturing the Braves front office on the need to be more proactive in the pursuit of starting pitching (that’s the part that strikes me as slight arrogant), when in fact… that hardly seems possible. Schuerholz has been as proactive in this regard as any GM could be.
That being the case, it struck me odd that there wasn’t even so much as a passing mention of the fact that the Braves have been (and are being) appropriately aggressive in the pursuit of another quality starter. Instead, your column seems to indirectly criticize the Braves’ front office for their failure to land another starter, when in fact they AGREE WITH YOU wholeheartedly about the need to upgrade the rotation (as do I)… and have been doing everything humanly possible to pull it off.
Why then do you write as though they need a lecture from you?
By monie
September 18, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this
Yes i’ve had a problem posting on ajc only for weeks. Please let AJ walk and don’t look back. Need to get a new Mgr. pitching and hitting coach, and pitching, pitching and more pitching. Sign Tex long term.