AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2007 > July > 10 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USTake Braves in this tight race
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Terence Moore
The surprising Buddy Carlyle notwithstanding, the Braves’ starting pitching beyond John Smoltz, Tim Hudson and Chuck James is a mess. Suddenly, closer Bob Wickman is more of a question mark than an exclamation point. Speaking of Smoltz, he joins Chipper Jones as Cooperstown guys who also may qualify for the Hall of Fame of aches and pains.
Can Smoltz and Jones stay healthy in the second half of the season?
Don’t know.
What we do know is that, despite the Braves’ various issues, they have a lot of everything else. That includes a surging Andruw Jones at the plate (finally) and the great Bobby Cox in the dugout. It’s a combination that will keep the Braves near or at the top of the National League East beyond the summer. As a result, the Mets will have to do something they didn’t have to do last season when they exploded down the stretch to end the Braves’ record streak of division titles at 14.
The Mets will have to defeat the Braves during a tight race.
Take the Braves. In case you’re wondering, the Philadelphia Phillies aren’t worthy of this discussion. They haven’t the pitching. And, like the Mets, the Phillies haven’t Smoltz, the two Joneses and Cox, who have been there and done that regarding the winning of tight races.
You had the Braves snatching the NL East by a game over the Mets in 2000. Just so you know, none of these Mets were part of those Mets. The following year, no more than three games separated the Braves and the Phillies from late June to the last game of the season when the Braves solidified their title with a 20-3 blowout of the Florida Marlins. In 2005, the Braves held off the Phillies again by two games with 18 rookies. There also was 1991, when Smoltz and Cox were around to help the Braves shock the Los Angeles Dodgers for that worst-to-first miracle. Two years later, the Braves ended what was called The Last Great Pennant Race with 104 victories to the San Francisco Giants’ 103.
Here’s the point: Since nobody on the Mets’ current roster has been in a tight race while playing for the Mets, how would these Mets react to the Braves nipping at their cleats in October? “That’s a good question, and I don’t know,” Tom Glavine said earlier this season at Turner Field as the definitive person for the question. For one, he has pitched for the Mets since leaving the Braves in 2002 after 15 seasons of tight, loose and no races. For another, he discovered in New York that the Braves always are on the Mets’ minds.
“When we came down here and had that good series against them last year, I think we kind of felt like we put all of that to bed,” said Glavine, recalling how the Mets took five of six games from the Braves from late July into early September.
Thing is, the pressure is negligible for teams in early September compared to late September, and the Braves spent last year stumbling toward finishing 18 games out of first place. That won’t happen this time for the Braves. In addition to battling the Braves in late September, the Mets will be battling high expectations.
With Cox among those saying the Mets have “an American League lineup,” they were supposed to bash their way into October. It hasn’t happened with the offensive struggles of the two Carloses (Delgado and Beltran) and the inconsistency of David Wright. The bullpen is solid with closer Billy Wagner, but the Mets’ starting pitching is as shaky as advertised. Glavine and Orlando Hernandez are fossils showing their age, and after a nice first half, Jorge Sosa and Oliver Perez are on the disabled list. Pedro Martinez is slated to return from shoulder surgery in August, but who knows if he’ll be Pedro Martinez?
Thus we’ll have the flawed Braves against the flawed Mets.
Take the Braves, all right, because they’ve been less flawed in crunch time than anybody since 1991.
We’re talking only about the regular season, of course.
Permalink | Comments (65) | Post your comment | Categories: Braves / MLB, Terence Moore
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By ugapip
July 10, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
I like the Braves in this 3 team race. 3 keys for 2nd half: 1) Starting pitching has to be consistent and keep the innings off of the bullpen. This may require us going after an established starter somewhere. Please do not sacrifice the future (Salty and Escobar) for an over-the-hill guy! 2) Bob Wickman needs to step it up. Since we lost Mike Gonzalez to injury, Soriano has been terrific but He can’t do it by himself. Wickman now scares me when he enters the game. Remember last year? When he came in, it was lights out. 3) The Jones boys need to hit! Chipper is pretty much clutch but struggles to stay in the lineup. He is the straw that stirs the Braves offense. Andrew on the other hand, provides protection for Chipper and needs to drive in much-needed runs for us.
If these 3 keys happen, the Braves will be playing into October. This of course in my favorite time of the year. The Braves in the playoffs, the Bulldogs ruling the SEC, and the Jackets losing!!!!!! Ha!
Go Braves
PS I do agree that experience will play a factor in this race. We have more experience than the Mets and the Phillies.
By Ryder
July 10, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this
What is this? Two AJC columnists giving the Braves credit and actually saying something positive about the local teams? Perish the thought!
The two major factors in this second half of the year will be the offense finally picking it up (i’m looking right at you Andruw!) and the Soriano- Wickman combo being able to finish games. I’m not sure if the starting pitching will hold up so the bullpen figures to have a big say in what happens the rest of the year.
I don’t think the Braves will win the division though, they’ll win the wild card because they are more balanced and experienced than the other contenders. I do believe Pedro’s return will be just enough to push the Mets in the NL East. However, once the playoffs start I see Atlanta winning in the first round while the Mets will lose due to facing superior pitching.
By Jeff
July 10, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this
Who cares what Moore says about anything? He exists professionally to race bait.
By Gore
July 10, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this
Some of you people need to get real. With the great Bobby Cox, the Great Andruw Jones, and Beer Belly Wickman the Braves may get a Wild Card.
By Soriano for Closer
July 11, 2007 12:14 AM | Link to this
Could it be?? A Terrance Moore column with no racial undertones? I can’t believe my eyes.
By gotigers72
July 11, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this
The Braves have a 43-31 record against NL teams, 29-18 against NL teams with .500 or above records. Now they must take advantage of a schedule where they play most of their games over the next month against teams with below .500 records. Their record against teams with losing records so far is 14-13. That says something that they have played 62 games against teams with .500 or above records [that counts their 4-11 record against AL teams with winning records] and only 27 games against teams with losing records and are still only 2 games out.
By Coach (The Spin Machine)
July 11, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this
Not enough pitching , no playoffs. Even a five year old could figure that out.
By Bobby
July 11, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this
Wish I could agree but playoff won’t be happening for the Braves this year. The wildcard won’t come from the eastern division which means the Braves will have to win the East outright. Chipper will have another boo boo by August, AJ won’t feel the need to keep up with the positive corrections he had started making before the break, Franc has gotten away from going the other way and will see his average drop, the bullpen will have arms start to drop off in August/Sept because of overwork, and the starting pitchers will get in their 4/5 innings and call it a day. The Braves will keep the two kids and we’ll be young but talented next year. Not too many of the players seem to be hurgry this year. The folks who blog here are more passionate about the game then the Braves are.
By Dwight Fry
July 11, 2007 12:53 AM | Link to this
Terence - why not end your posting with a song like DOB?
By DAD
July 11, 2007 2:11 AM | Link to this
Braves fans! Please don’t let Terrence get your hopes up. The Braves just have too many problems to stay in the NL East race with the Mets. The Braves have no money to bring in a quality starting pitcher. Chipper will soon go back on the DL, and Andruh will not even hit 200 in the second half. The Braves are stuck with one of the worst hitting first baseman in the majors. When Pedro returns, look for the Mets to take off and leave the Braves and win the NL East by 12 games.
By Salty Dawg
July 11, 2007 2:21 AM | Link to this
Braves win the East despite another poor half by Andruw. This is no slump. Should be playing Diaz in Left and Harris in Center. They have earned it.
Brewers hang on to win the NL Central. They are better than most pundits think.
The Dodgers win the West. Padres cannot hit.
And, the Wild Card comes from the NL Central’s Cubbies. They have been on a tear as of late. They are getting their act together. Sure, the Padres and Diamondbacks are much better, but given unbalanced play, Padres, Dodgers and Diamondbacks will beat the crap out of each other. Milwaukee and the Cubs are the only respectable teams in the NL Central and can feast on poor play from the Pirates, the Reds, the Cards and Houston. Why not the Mets? The Braes, the Phillies, the Marlins and the Nats and unbalanced play. Thye are probably better than the Cubs too.
By Salty Dawg
July 11, 2007 2:25 AM | Link to this
Hey, DAD, the Mets get swept by Colorado and lose 3 of 4 to the Astros and you think they are going to win the East? You are DELUSIONAL. Yeah, nice work by Wagner in the AllStar game. Bahahahahahaha
By JohnGTfan
July 11, 2007 4:02 AM | Link to this
I apologize to the fellow bloggers for changing the subject…but does anyone else believe that the main reason the NL keeps losing the All-star game is NOT because the AL has better players, but because the fans get to vote the starters? David Wright should not have been there…where was Edgar…Bonds hitting 2nd…why so many starting pitchers…where are some middle relievers…where was jimmy rollins? Chipper Jones? I’m just curious…a starting lineup of: SS Jose Reyes 2B Chase Utley 3B Chipper Jones 1B Prince Fielder LF Barry Bonds RF Ken Griffey Jr CF Carlos Beltran C McCann or Martin(LA) P Jake Peavy
I’m just thinking with the speed and contact hitters at the front end…power in middle, and solid hitters 6 - 8, then it makes it really tough for any pitcher. Just my opinion.
By JohnGTfan
July 11, 2007 4:06 AM | Link to this
DAD
I wouldn’t get too excited if I were you, or any MUTS fan. Omar Minaya has spent ridiculous money on all these players. The Braves and Phillies have played average baseball the first half. YOU’RE ONLY 2 GAMES IN 1ST. If you’re trying to be like your crosstown rivals (spend tons of money, not win world series), you’re well on your way!!!!
By Casper
July 11, 2007 6:51 AM | Link to this
You just HAD to bring up ‘race’ in this article, too, didn’t you, Terence?
By bfan54
July 11, 2007 7:00 AM | Link to this
I appreciate your insight and thinking on this, but consider your characterization of AJ as “surging” just a little bit hyperbolic and premature -but his next couple of games likely will make your point (or mine!). Appreciate all of your columns, by the way.
By Kaye
July 11, 2007 7:13 AM | Link to this
They might make it but will get knocked out in the first round withouth pitching. We just dont have a reliable 4 and 5. Chippers health bothers me and now Smoltz’s shoulder.
We need two pitchers and we need to ditch woodward and Thorman. Sorry but Salty and Johnson/Escobar need to play it out the rest of the season. As does Willie Harris. If Andruw falls for the slump again he needs replaced by Harris in center and Diaz in left. We cant have another Andruw (smurk) Jones strikeOmatic zone in the lineup the second half. Sorry but his defense no longer outweights his offense.
By sam
July 11, 2007 7:41 AM | Link to this
Who’s Moore Now?
Your Atlanta Braves!
By Marty
July 11, 2007 7:58 AM | Link to this
Even though they don’t have any Blacks?
By Will
July 11, 2007 8:13 AM | Link to this
Just playing devils advocate here: if the Phillies do not have any pitching then what do the braves have??? We have all taken this ride with Smoltz before he will battle every start, but i have no faith he will be healthy again this season.
By bgkahuna88
July 11, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this
METS FAN
hey guys i am not going to sit here and say the braves have no chance. but as bill parcels says. ” you are what you are.” talk about the schedule the mets have played every team in the playoffs from last yr and are still in 1st. played 21 straight games vs. teams over .500 and lost a 1/2 game on their lead.
everyone wants to discount the fact the mets won the division last. and may have planted a seed of doubt in the braves heads. but are quick to bring up 1991 and such.
Have the Mets struggled? Yes. Could they have a larger, maybe insurmountable, lead had they not struggled? Yes. But the prognosis is positive. they have lost there entire OF to injury at one time or the other. BELTRAN, ALOU, GREEN. not to mention the 3 top OF reserves. GOMEZ, MILLEDGE and CHAVEZ. VALENTIN is walking wounded.
they have lost to the DL EL DUQUE 3.22 era, PEREZ 7 wins, SOSA 7 wins, and lets not forget about PEDRO. as well as their best RP last yr. SANCHEZ.
subpar yrs. from WRIGHT, DELGADO, LoDUCA, GLAVINE, PELPHREY (0-7), HEILMAN and SCHOENEWEIS.
excelling for the mets in ‘07 REYES only regular. FELICIANO, SMITH, MAINE, and WAGNER. so if mets fans and their team feel good about being in 1st at the break 2 up 3 in the lost column. it’s well deserved.
that’s also before OMAR MINAYA gets someone to strengthen the bullpen, lineup, a starting pitcher, or a combination of the 3. last yr. OMAR stood still with a little fools gold because of the lead the team had. not this yr.
if any of you think that past wins against the mets will have an effect on the team remember this. your TOM GLAVINE is the most senior met on the team. thats right boys and girls, it means nothing. not 2005, 1991 or anywhere in between.
i fully expect this to be a really good race until the end but lets keep things in perspective braves fans.
By Dutch
July 11, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this
Talk about overrating a pitching staff. The league is hitting .350 off the closer for the past 5 weeks; Hudson’s ERA has been in the mid-4’s the past 9 weeks; James is mediocre; and Smoltz’s shoulder is barking. So where’s this great pitching? And experience is irrelevant when one Jones is barely hitting .200 and the other is just a hard sneeze from the DL. I picked this team to win the NL East, but being objective, which Moore is not, this team has not shot at NY. Especially, with Alou and Pedro returning and prospects ready to be dealt at the deadline. No shot!
By TampaBrave
July 11, 2007 8:59 AM | Link to this
With the exception of Wagner, the Mets All Stars were on their game last night. I hope that they are not waking up!
Minaya will make a move to cover a weakness and JS better start working the phones as well if we want to hang around.
Would love to have a legit 1B. Mark Teixeira is on the block in Texas.
Now is the time to trade Renteria. He has good value now. Escobar seems ready to take over. This is a case where you have to take a step backwards to make a great leap forward.
By Daybed Wagmoe
July 11, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this
tampabrave,
the braves won’t be playing in october if yunel escobar is their second-half starting shortstop. why would the braves want to trade renteria? he ranks among the top SS in most (if not all) offensive categories, is one of the game’s best clutch hitters, still has solid defense as well as loads of postseason experience. not to mention he’s constantly setting the table for chipper and the guys behind him. sounds to me like a guy i’d want to keep for as long as i could — he’s a staple on this team.
By DAP
July 11, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this
the mets might have more money to afford big time players, but mid season, getting players is going to have to come through trade, and the braves have the upper hand there. the mets do not have any poular young players that arent injured that they can deal. i think the braves are more likely to trade for an impact player than the mets.
By Twain
July 11, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this
I have only been a die hard Braves fan since Dale Murphy arrived….so I am a relatively new ‘Chop Talker’. However…I watch nearly every game…and am glad I have seen wins by Glavine, Maddox & Smoltz LIVE.
The Braves have a great chance of overtaking the Mets and winning the East. It will take 3 months of TEAMWORK …but teamwork a Braves strength and a NYM weakness.
I wish I understood why the new billionaire owners wouldn’t want to offer Andruw Jones a 3 year / $60 million deal….or why Atlanta can’t add another top drawer starting pitcher. I live 250 miles from Hotlanta…and I can not attend as often as I would like….but I do not understand why a metro area of 5 million can’t fill Turner Filed for 81 home games.
The Braves are one outstanding franchise. Bobby Cox is the best in the business….and Smoltz,Jones, Jones, Renteria, McCann, Francouer, Johnson, Hudson and Company are the Class of Major League Baseball.
In 1995 I was SURE another 2 or 3 titles would follow by 2000…now..I HOPE to see another… before Smoltzy, Chipper & Andruw move on to greener pastures or well deserved retirements.
ATL # 1 in ‘07 … GO BRAVES !!!
By Jeff R
July 11, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this
The big wild cards are whether Smoltz and Chipper Jones stay healthy, and it’s more important that Smoltz play, frankly. You take Smoltz out of the rotation, and you’ve got James and Hudson, who are good pitchers but not aces, and, as Terence mentioned, the bullpen has too many questions marks (Is Wickman slumping or sinking?). It’s pitching that gives teams the edge. Will the Braves have that edge come September?
By Will
July 11, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this
Trade Renteria???? What a joke!! Mark Teixeira would be a terrible trade. The only trade the braves need to be making is for a starter, but there is nobody worth trading for with what they would have to give up. Why do people on this board keep saying trade renteria, i do not remotely get that, he was the first half mvp for the braves, hands down!!
By spaceman109
July 11, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this
terence moore says the braves will make the playoffs because they have more experience than the other contenders. i will firmly and pointedly remind young mr. moore that in 1991 the dodgers and reds had more experience in pennant races than the braves, yet the braves won the division.
i am convinced that the wild card will come from the nl west since every team out there has way more pitching than the braves and all those teams have just enough offense to support the pitching.
one wonders when bobby cox will give soriano a shot as the closer….his knee-jerk loyalty could be what costs the braves a playoff spot. would anyone really take wickman as the closer in a tight race over takashi saito of the dodgers or the padres’ incomparable trevor hoffman?
By Kelley
July 11, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
I believe if you reflect upon the past sixteen years in Braves baseball, the Braves deserve the benefit of the doubt from the fans as to whether or not they can make the playoffs. I believe they have earned that respect from us considering they are the only sports franchise in GA to be consistent in terms of making the playoffs year after year (excluding last year of course). Wouldn’t it be nice if the Falcons, Hawks, Bulldogs football would have been that good year after year for the past sixteen years?
Great article, I believe there are several weaknesses on this team right now ( I have lost total confidence in Wickman and would like to see Soriano as our closer) and will state the obvious in that we need another starting pitcher. I just happened to be at Fenway Park for Davie’s debut so he is a sentimental favorite to me, but would the real Kyle Davies please show up? His inconsistencies are maddening.
That being said I have confidence in this team that they will be in the race come the end of September. Isn’t that what a true fan is suppossed to feel?
Most importantly I believe JS will come through with some sort of deal to help the team and you never ever count out a Bobby Cox team, no one does it better.
By Marc
July 11, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
I think JS is going to surprise people and get either another reliever or another bat. The fact is our rotation, while far from perfect, is capable of going head-to-head with Phillie and NY. Granted our we’ll have to keep our fingers crossed everytime our 4 and 5 guys take the mound, but when they’re on their game, Davies, James, Lerew, and Carlyle are pretty much unhittable.
Depending on what they learn about Smoltz’s health in the next few days, I’d be willing to bet we get a suprise with something to either push our offense over the top, or solidify our bullpen more.
By Marc
July 11, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this
And just a reminder, we don’t need 4 and 5 starters in the playoffs, that’s why few teams spend millions for those slots, playoffs are a 3-man rotation.
By TampaBrave
July 11, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this
What you people fail to see is that we are only a few games over .500 and to win this division, something has to change. There are no proven arms out on the block, so since we can’t control that, let’s look at other ways of improving the club. 1B is awful and must be changed. What do we have that would allow us to change that? Escobar, Salty, Elvis(a prospect), Thorman(please!!!). Salty and Escobar are sure fire hits so they must stay.
The logical one step backward of trading Renteria would allow Escobar to flourish at SS with better skills and land us a solid 1st baseman that can catch the ball and not be hole in the lineup. This is not a time for sacred cows. We have to reload now.
By Will
July 11, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this
Spaceman 109,
I cannot agree more, i love the term knee jerk loyalty!! I was just telling a friend who is a dodgers fan a few minutes ago that the Braves are going to have some CRUSHING blown save losses because of Wickman before Bobby even thinks about a change. I already have the 3-0 9th inning lead in Florida, and that huge blown save against the Rockies circled as two absolute p** poor losses that could haunt them. Wickman tried his darndest to a* another one in SD the other night.
By Marc
July 11, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this
Lol, you Mets fans and your “prospects”. You have more money, you have a better line-up, you even have better attendence records.
But better prospects? Don’t be niave. That may very well be the only strength the Braves have, well that and a superior GM that knows how to get the most out of them whether it’s trading or promoting.
By TampaBrave
July 11, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
What I meant to say was
Take a step backward to make a great leap forward.
By Will
July 11, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this
Getting Mark Teixera would absoultely not be a great leap forward. I will take a 4th place finish in the division if it means keeping Escobar and Salty, i really mean that! There is no player out there worth those guys and every team knows the braves have their backs against the wall and will not give them anything without at least one of those two guys. By the way Texiera is making 9 million a year. The Braves future is Mccann/Salty at 1st and Catcher.
By spaceman109
July 11, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this
marc….you say the braves have better prospects than the mets….position players, yes, but where are the pitching prospects who could possibly help us in september and beyond? i can remember the day (late 90s, early 00s) when the braves had pitching prospects by the truckload. not now so far as i can see.
and btw….do you know what is the meaning of “prospect”? it means that said player hasn’t done anything yet. i remember how upset people were when we sent away dan meyer in the trade which brought tim hudson to atlanta. anyone hear of dan meyer lately?
By TampaBrave
July 11, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this
Will,
You are correct to say that Teixeira makes 9M but so does Renteria. So our payroll does not move and we gain a gold glove, switch hitter who averages 165 hits, 35 HRs, 112 RBIs and consistently bats around .295. He played at GT and is young. I don’t see the problem.
By Ryan
July 11, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this
Hey, DAD, the Mets get swept by Colorado and lose 3 of 4 to the Astros and you think they are going to win the East?
Actually they split in Houston.
By Chuck James is solid!! (Formerly Steve-O)
July 11, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this
Good column T.
By Mets will win
July 11, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this
it’s interesting how you braves fans can spin anything to make it sound positive. consider this - the mets are a mere 2 games up (3 in the loss column) with the following happening: wright having a powerless april before really turning it on (and he does deserve to be in the all-star game johngtfan, along with reyes who is clearly better than edgar and is having a superior year - i guess 3/4 with a sb and a run wasn’t good enough for you), delgado slumping, beltran slumping, moises injured, no pedro, and simply a team underachieving and not performing to its abilities. you all mention that the braves and phillies have played average baseball - what have the mets played? if i’m an atlanta or philly fan, i’m terrified right now of the mets playing to their ability. delgado showed some positive signs before the break, pedro comes back in early august, moises and milledge are coming back. this is easily the best team in the NL and it’s going to show. if you live in atlanta or philly, be afraid, be very afraid, and feel free to make vacation plans for october, you won’t need tickets or a television
By BrandonC
July 11, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this
Like many people have said, the Braves need some consistant pitching to contend. I do think we have shot at the division. I think the Met’s over-achieved BIG time last year when they ran away with it. Their pitching is just as suspect as ours, and maybe more. I don’t think Pedro will make a huge impact by any means either.
As far as us, hopefully we can figure out the pitching situation without giving up our future (Salty and Esco) to get it. I’m curious to watch what Jo Jo can do in his next start. Who knows, maybe he is the answer we are looking for in the short term. Obviously Thorman shouldn’t be in the lineup unless Salty needs a rest. Salty should play 1b regardless of who is pitching. Andruw SHOULD NOT be hitting 4th unless he starts a big time hot streak. Rotate Mac and Frenchy in the cleanup spot for better rbi production.
And obviously the big key is Chipper staying healthy. For some reason this team struggles without him in the lineup.
By TampaBrave
July 11, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this
Mets will win
You make a good point. The only reason we are even close is because the Mets have had a worse year than us to date. I do not expect that to continue in the 2nd half. The mets will crank it up, don’t kid yourselves. We have to meet that challenge. The problem with most of the fans is that they have been spoiled and beleive that everything will work out because it has for such a long time. This is not true anymore. We have to improve and do it now. Playing Salty at 1st is only a short term solution. I would even consider trading McCann. We have to make our moves now or the Mets will leave us in the dust. Count on it. Here’s hoping the leadership steps up and puts us in a better position to compete.
By VA Brave
July 11, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this
How about a trade for former Brave Kevin Millwood? What we have to give up? Scott Thorman, fills in for loss of Mark T in FA, a couple minor league pitchers, a minor league middle infielder?
By John K
July 11, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this
Uh, yeah Terrance. The Braves win the NL East. And we win in Iraq and Congress solves the Social Security, Immigration and Health Care problems.
By Will
July 11, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this
TampaBrave, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree, i do not think having Mark Tex would make a difference for the Braves, when they have a massive gap in starting pitching. Braves should think about moving Renteria in the offseason, but not now. It is not going to happen anyways.
VA Brave, I was never more irate with John S. then the day he traded Kevin Millwood, but i quickly understood that they knew he was going to breakdown and he has. I would take what we have over Millwood.
By TampaBrave
July 11, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Will,
I just heard on 790 The Zone that the Braves were talking to Texas about Tex. They are wanting either Salty or Escobar. How about Elvis and McCann for Tex and Millwood? How would that change the lineup?
C-SALTY SWITCH HITTER
1B-TEX SWITCH HITTER
2B-JOHNSON
SS-ESCOBAR
3B-C JONES SWITCH HITTER
LF-HARRIS/DIAZ
CF- A JONES
RF-FRENCHY
ADD MILLWOOD AS A 4TH OR 5TH STARTER.
By Alex
July 11, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
Need to trade for starting pitching soon. That will push the Braves over the top and allow them to challange the Muts for the NL East in September.
What about Roy Oswalt from Houston? Is he available and what would the price be for a top line pitcher like that? How about a possible move to acquire one of the young talanted starters from the Oakland A’s?
If a trade means giving up Escobar of Salty, or even Mac behind the plate, would you do it?
It is unlikely a big trade happens unless both teams feel like they are benefitting from it.
Regardless, I like how the Muts have been spending themselves into a tailspin…keep going Muts. Soon your payroll will be close to the NY Yankees and see where that has gotten them, right?
Meanwhile, the Braves have one of the best minor league systems and will keep reloading to be competitive with home grown talent.
The only thing our minor league system has failed to produce of late is a dominant starting pitcher…and I won’t count James or Davies b/c they aren’t a number 1 & 2 starters in the league, but more of a back of the rotation kind of guys.
I will take the Braves in a tight race too, this season I expect them to win the series against the Muts and it will come down to which team can handle the pressure in September.
By Will
July 11, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
Braves cannot give up Mccann for anybody. even if they are in talks with the rangers there is no way Mccann is going anywhere. If somebody has to go out of Escobar and Salty it has to be Escobar. I still swear if the Braves added Mark Tex to their lineup today and gave up nobody for him, that would still not make them anywhere near a playoff lock. Several of the Brave starters have proven they can blow any lead they are given, and then there is Wickman….
By Will
July 11, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
alex, I would imagine Oswalt would cost the Braves both Escobar and Salty. That is the only potential trade i would even consider giving them up for. When does the point come where the braves are ruining their future for a shot at the playoffs, and even then the AL is vastly better then the NL. I am an NL guy, always have been, but the champ is coming from the AL. Why should the Braves mortgage the future for a playoff birth? We have all seen year after year of losses in the playoffs and it is not worth it to give up all the young talent unless you have a great shot at a world series, and i am sorry i just dont see it with this team no matter what they do.
By TampaBrave
July 11, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this
Will,
If I was going to trade a catcher it would be McCann. You speak about the future. Well Salty is here and he apparently is the future. I would part with McCann and Escobar to get Lee Harvey Oswalt. Catcher and SS are glaring weaknesses for the Astros. They would not make that deal unless they have pitchers coming up from the minors. They are done this year and might consider reloading.
By Will
July 11, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this
I understand what you are saying. The Braves just signed him to an extension, plus he is gonna make multi all star games, i see no way in the world Mccann will be traded. It all comes back to my main point, do you really think it matters what the Braves do? Do you really think there is anything they can do to win a world series? Not making the playoffs last year was less painful then watching them not win the world series 13 out of 14 years.
By Chris
July 11, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this
I love all this trade Renteria for Texiera talk. Last time I checked the Rangers already have a $90M shortstop and a young “can’t miss” guy playing 2nd base. If we make a trade with the Rangers, we need to go after Aki Otsuka. I for one wouldn’t mind the Braves bringing Milly back to Atlanta either, but Jon Daniels will ask for Salty in return since Texiera is gone after this season anyway.
By MD Braves Fan
July 11, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this
I started as a Hank Aaron fan and can remember loosing to the Mets in 69. There have been a lot of bad trades since then. We gave away the likes of Joe Torre, Clay Carrol, Felix Millan, Dusty Baker, Brett Butler, Ryan Klesko, Brett Boone, Jermaine Dye, Jason Scmidt, Doyle Alexander (I would do that one again though). We have to get long term value for our young studs if we are going to part with them. Don’t trade Salty or Escobar for a rent a player - only for a long term solution. Tex is a Boras client who is going to get the big bucks later - unless we can sign him prior - no trade. Millwood only comes for a class A- prospect - maybe a Van Pope from Miss or Lillibridge from Richmond or someone similar. Edgar can only go for a signed 2 year number 3 starter or better. Besides his wonderfull skills, he is one of the quiet in house leaders of the team. I like Oswalt, Contrares (Chisox - sp?) or the like type pitchers, they need to be power pitches for te post season.
By Adirondackdave
July 11, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
Salty for Teixiera? Absolutely, I’d do it in a minute if we get a significant contract extension which we could do with Andruw or Renteria gone next year. Tex won’t get 20M, more like 17M. We’d likely have to include Thorman or a pitching prospect.
Wait a minute.. I just re-thought this… NO WAY!!!! Salty is gonna soon be putting up Tex-like numbers for McCann money. Put all that saved cash into quality pitching. Sometimes the best trades are the ones that don’t happen.
By AthensBrave
July 11, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
Mets will win:
Yeah, we’re shaking in our boots right now. You guys are like 10 games under .500 since the end of May. We’re 6-3 against you this year. Don’t give me this injury crap. Our biggest aquistion during the off-season is out for the year. Hampton never made it to opening day. Wickman and Chipper have both made visits to the DL. EVERY TEAM HAS INJURIES!!! Quit making excuses Mutt.
By Alex
July 11, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
Will, It may come to the Braves trading both Salty and Escobar for a top line starter, but I would only support that kind of trade if…
What about trading Kelly Johnson instead of Escobar, as the infield prospect? I know KJ has done a good job all year long at 2B, but I think Escobar has more upside in the long term future.
To answer your question…be honest, did you think that the Cards would win the WS last year? They were arguably the worst team to make the playoffs. So in conclusion, yes I do think that the Braves, if they get to the playoffs have a chance. You don’t play baseball on paper, you still have to win the series and advance on.
Perfect example are last year’s Cards, they got hot, got clutch hits, and great starting pitching, even from young unexperienced pitchers and some washed up guys like Jeff Weaver! It’s all about timing in baseball. Get a team going on a streak in the playoffs and they, with a little luck can win it all.
By Mike in France
July 11, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this
I think the Phillies might actually make a run at things. They’ve got some real good young players.
I wouldn’t write them off too easily.
Of course, I’d like to see the Braves really take off. They’ve got guys playing great (Harris, Johnson, Renteria, Chipper, Salty, …) and they’ve got some other guys who can step up; I think they need one more starter.
By Ralph
July 11, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this
The Braves are like a woman unpredictable, it will be a interesting second half. Bobby Cox will really be tested to see if he has anything left in his bag of tricks or just a lot of hot air. Hope to see them in the seris.
By DonCoburleone
July 11, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this
Right on Terrance. I usually don’t post anything after I read your articles but this one actually got me excited about the Braves chances in the 2nd half… Also, to add to your theory of a close race, don’t forget that we are currently 6-3 vs. the Mets this year and have won all 3 series’ we’ve played against them. We absolutely need Smoltz though, without him we have no shot…
By Adirondackdave
July 11, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this
Man, I need a baseball fix. Spring training is way better than all-star week.
By John
July 11, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this
The idea that the Braves will win is absolutely crazy. There is no reliable starting pitching now that John Smoltz is dinged.Andru Jones is completely undisciplined and impotent at the plate. Wickman and the rest of the bullpen are scary at the end of the game. Keep[ing andru near the top of the batting order and the constant platooning show management breakdown.
By Jeff
July 12, 2007 12:39 AM | Link to this
The Braves have a great shot at the NL East. The Braves schedule is a little easier in the second half. The Muts and Phillies have games left with the Padres and Dodgers. The Braves need another pitcher and reliever. I think Javier Vasquez is a perfect fit.
By michael in alaska
July 12, 2007 1:50 AM | Link to this
If the Braves could get Tex and Millwood from Texas for Salty and a midlevel prodpector two lillibridge, Van Pope, or JoJo Reyes, and then sign tex long term then they should do it. Then trade, Renteria in the offseason and plug Escobar in at short. We can afford to loose Salty, he’ll be great but we have McCann, and unless he can really play first, gold-glove style, then it’s something that needs to be done.