Sports Columnists

By Mike from the coast

June 13, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

One reason Andruw has less putouts the last couple of years is having a good right fielder. There are balls that Francouer gets to that previous right fielders couldn’t. Also, there has been improvements in left field. The last couple of years when we had Langerhans out there many nights. Andruw covered over two thirds of the outfield for many years when the likes of Klesko and others were playing.

By johnny

June 13, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

I gotta give it to T. Moore on this one. While Andrew’s bat is questionable at times, he WILL go down in history as the best centerfielder. The plays the kid makes are second to none. There is nobody in the game that can take angles in gaps and play the wall like Andruw. And that’s how the cookie crumbles my friends.

By Moonlight Mile

June 13, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

We won’t appreciate him as much until he’s gone - which unfortunately looks to be pretty soon.

By Boo Got Shot!

June 13, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

T-Dog, are you sure you aren’t confusing Andruw Jones with your ‘lust puppies’ Gary Sheffield or Ken Griffey, Jr?

Oh, Terence, when is your YEARLY “The Racist BRAVES Need to Trade the Entire Roster (Especially the White Players) for Ken Griffey, Jr. NOW!!” article going to be published….again….this year?

I am SO looking forward to that little gem……again…….

By Diogenes

June 13, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

What, no racial angle to this story? Well, kudos for that …

AJ is a world-class talent in the field, and erratic and frustrating to watch at the plate. Despite his apparent lackadaisical attitude in the field (the “hey, look at me!” way he catches even routine fly balls), I will hand it to him — he hustles when he has to, and makes catches few else could. But, at the plate, he refuses to learn from his mistakes, and never seems to be able to find a consistent groove.

So, great fielder, mediocre batter … what does that make him? A player of great talent AND great flaws. Those flaws, though, keep him from being “great,” wich is a shame.

By Lex Luthor

June 13, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

With the way the Braves tend to pitch, none of the outfielders should get put outs. In general we are a ground ball team.

Now, if he could start batting above .211 …

By Apaul404

June 13, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

Jayson Stark is only trying to stir up controversy to help his book sell.

By booper

June 13, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Can this be a real Moore article with no racial angle? Who is this imposter? Without playing the race card Moore has nothing to write about so this has to be a ghost -oops sorry they are white -RACSIM-writer

By Ripme

June 13, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

Diogenes I agree 110%. Flaws he refuses to correct. Can’t stand to watch him bat 95% 0f time 219 bA. But 5% he is hell. Let him and Boras walk.

By Bear

June 13, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

TM, did you fail to meet an article quota? Did you not notice that DOB wrote about this same topic YESTERDAY. His column is actually interesting and provides great arguments against Stark’s story. In comparison yours is bob lablaw and that’s being nice. You’re a waste on AJC’s payroll.

By Chief Nockahoma

June 13, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

So who brought up race today? Maybe it is time to self reflect on who is really preoccupied with race. Terrence did not, but you guys did. You want to get worked up everyday about some racial issue. You use sports to vent your racism. Take the sheets off your heads and go out and get some sun

By Charlie

June 13, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

Andrew “overrated” that is the lamest thing I have ever heard. He is a HOF talent even with his flaws at the plate. I hope he stays in Atlanta

By Alex

June 13, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

Who is Jason Stark?

We all have heard of Andruw Jones!

What unbiased ESPN/MLB opinions…Tim Kirkchan and Harold Reynolds.

By George

June 13, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

I have followed baseball for more than 50 years and have had the opportunity to see many great outfielders. Andrew Jones is #1. With all the stats that are kept I wish it were possible to know just how much he has lowered the team ERA with his defense.

By sammy miller

June 13, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

First…..Yeah baby yeah……….

By Jay

June 13, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

Andruw is a very streaky hitter (remember his rookie year when he couldn’t hit a curve ball to save his life?), but he is without a doubt the best defensive center fielder to ever play the game. His ‘routine’ plays would be Sportscenter highlights for 90% of the other outfielders in the game. I really hope he stays here in Atlanta after this season.

By Seasontickets

June 13, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Chief - I agree with youf 11:38 post.

Can’t - ok, usually don’t - agree with Mr. Moore on many of his writings, but on this note, I concur.

By Gene

June 13, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

The best centerfielder I ever saw was Willie Mays. Andruw is a good fielder, but his hitting has always been unpredictable.

By steve

June 13, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Andruw would be my starting center fielder if he only batted .150. He is simply the best I have ever seen. Ask Glavine what it was like when he left the Braves for the Mets. He said that the difference between having Andruw playing behind you and anyone else is night and day. Even when he had gold glover Mike Cameron in center, it did not compare to having Andruw. Andruw positions himself better and reacts to the ball off the bat better than anyone.

Willie Mays was just before my time so all I have seen are replays. Of course there is no way to prove this, but the famous over-his-head Mays catch - I think Andruw turns that into a routine fly ball.

Also, one reason that Andruw’s putouts have gotten fewer is a combination of a better supporting cast in the outfield and pitchers getting groundballs. That are too many variables for that being such an emphasized statistic.

By Michael

June 13, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

Two years ago I thought Andrew finally figured things out. He acted like a leader and delivered like one. However, he has slipped back into clueless at the plate. There can be no debate about his defensive ability. He maybe the best of all time.

By J

June 13, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

I don’t think anyone can negate what AJ does in the outfield. Going off my own opinion, I think he makes up for his strikeouts by what he does in the outfield. I can live w/ the Braves keeping him, and him striking out, as long as he makes one or 2 great plays during a game!

By Andruw Jones Fan

June 13, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Andruw, Please stay with us.

By BossLady

June 13, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

I agree with Bear 11:33 AM. It’ about time you wrote something that did not bash someone, but, too little too late. By the way are you CUTMAN? I’m heading back to DOB blog, Later T

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 13, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if Andruw’s underrated, but Moore is much closer to the truth than Stark. I am tired of stat geeks polluting sports and acting like the numbers on their spreadsheets make them more qualified to judge an athlete than people who actually watch the games. Made-up stats like zone ratings can help decide if a player is good or bad, but it’s foolish to use them by themselves to draw conclusions without actually seeing the impact they have on a game.

By bmont

June 13, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

jason stark is either clueless or is doing this just to get a reaction and sell some books. i think all of the above. andrew isn’t the best centerfielder of all time, but he is far from being the most overrated. i think he’s one of the top 3 all time. even with griffey’s injuries, he’s better than andrew and so is mays. stark is a moron and terrence moore’s articles are lame.

By DANC

June 13, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

I’VE BEEN A BRAVES FAN SINCE I WAS BORN. I’VE ALOT OF GREAT OUTFIELDERS. ANDREW IS ONE OF THE BEST TO COME ALONG. MAKES THE HARDEST CATCHES LOOK EASY.HOW MANY RUNS HAS HE SAVED THE BRAVE’S PITCHERS’ THE PAST FEW YEARS?

By paul

June 13, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

Terrance, a quality writer would have been on this story 3 weeks ago when it hit the internet. Way to be late and irrelevent.

By Phatt

June 13, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

Bottom line is, AJ will command 20+ Mill a year. No way we pay that for a guy with GREAT defense and POOR streaky hitting. ATL should let AJ walk and go after Tori Hunter. He does so much more on offense and still plays a damn good defense.

Like some of you said, the corner outfield positions have defensively gotten better. ATL’s CF doesn’t need to cover as much ground.

By monty

June 13, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Andrew has instincts that most simply don’t have, he knows where to position himself, he makes the diving catch coming in better than anyone Ive ever seen and I’m 50 and have watched baseball all my life. Plus Andrew rarely ever drops a dived after ball, he makes a clean catch. Where he may have lost a step as he has gotten older and heavier is on the ball hit in the gap. But still, that is in comparison to himself 10 years ago. He still goes and tracks them down with the best of them. If anyone saw last night’s game Tori Hunter caught a ball in the gap off of Mcann that I didn’t or the BRaves announcers think he would get to.I’m sure Tori Hunter can outrun Andrew in a 30 yard sprint. But still you are comparing greatness to greatness.Andrew has gotten to 350 homeruns quicker than AAron did and he was a prety good player, you think?

By PMatlanta

June 13, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

Best defensive centerfielder period. Not bad at the plate either!!!

By GT

June 13, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Terence, Jones is not an Afro American you don’t need to defend him. The only person you are allowed to write about on the Braves is Harris.

By VaBravesfan

June 13, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Who the hell is Jason Stark and why do we care what his opinion is? He is just another ESPN Yankee/Met fan full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

By SouthernBall

June 13, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

Jones is the best CF in the game right now, but you cannot top Griffey roaming Center in the 90s, or Mays in his time. Andruw will Surpass Griffey when he makes an all century team or is the best hitter or fielder for their position of his decade, like Griffey Jr. in the 90s.

By Gary

June 13, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand why so many bloggers want to make this about race. The two best centerfielders of all time in my book are Willie Mays and Andrew Jones and they don’t come any whiter than me. When I watch baseball I want to see the best and I couldn’t care less where they came from or how dark their skin is. Grow up folks.

By AL

June 13, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

Been Braves fan 35 years. He is for sure one of the top 5 Braves of all time without a doubt. He is not a GREAT player as far as going down in History like Mays or Mantle because of the lack of Championships by the Braves. Some were in part his fault along with Chipper and other veterans bats going to sleep in the playoffs. I hope he stays until he decides to retire. He’s not a trouble maker or dope head and seems to improve some portion of his game every year. He is a fine pro ballplayer. I think we are fortunate to have him. Underated….hard call. Overated noway. That guys an idiot. I say sign him for what he wants or negitiate he’s as good as any in the league.

By AL

June 13, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

Been Braves fan 35 years. He is for sure one of the top 5 Braves of all time without a doubt. He is not a GREAT player as far as going down in History like Mays or Mantle because of the lack of Championships by the Braves. Some were in part his fault along with Chipper and other veterans bats going to sleep in the playoffs. I hope he stays until he decides to retire. He’s not a trouble maker or dope head and seems to improve some portion of his game every year. He is a fine pro ballplayer. I think we are fortunate to have him. Underated….hard call. Overated noway. That guys an idiot. I say sign him for what he wants he’s as good as any in the league.

By Jeff

June 13, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

He still makes great plays, but Stark makes some pretty valid points about his range and his consistency falling off. His assertions, unlike Terence’s, are backed by numbers that just aren’t answered by pointing to an improved supporting cast in the outfield. Is it any suprise that a guy who’s shown no discipline or work ethic at the plate has fallen off a little as he’s aged and lost a step?

By Renegade

June 13, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

Get rid of AJ and let Willie Harris play CF everyday. Cut Orr’s A$$, and trade Woodward for a bag of sunflower seeds. Bring back Cheif Nokahoma!!!!!

By Daxxed

June 13, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

As much as I would like AJ to stay. His price tag will be too high. Put JF in CF, Salty in RF, WH/MD in LF…Use the money AJ would be getting on additional pitching.

By (. Y .)

June 13, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

T-Money,

How long did it take you to pen this great article? 2, 3 minutes? You could really edit it down to “Stark says Andruw Jones is overrated, but I don’t think so, but I am not going to tell you why.”

Your material has no substance. Maybe you should take a look at a real columnist’s article and the substance David O’Brien regularly includes in his work.

Why does Stark consider him overrated? Why do you not? Is the race card involved?

By Stuart

June 13, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

Did anyone see the game last night? Tori HUnger is so much better than Andruw is is not funny. He runs so much better than Andruw. Of Course comparing their defense is like comparing two Victoria Secret models to have realations with….. either way you go, you cant lose.

The main difference was at the dish. Everyone I hear says Hunter can’t hit like Andruw, blah, blah, blah. Has anyone seen the pitching Hunter faces every day. He has to play against the White Sox (they can pitch, but are terrible at the plate), Indians, and Tigers 19 times each. Then he plays the yanks, red sox, A’s, and angels 6 times apiece. He may not have Anduw’s pop, but let’s say this, he wouldn’t do worse against the nationals 19 times a year. Did anyone see Hunter go the other way, drive in two, then cause a bad throw and score. What did AJ do? Thank you, that is why Andruw is known as overrated, HE IS!!!!

I am sick of the Andruw over, under debate. He, like the rest of the team has sucked this year. This team has under achieved for the past 30 games and are quite frankly unwatchable at this point, even though I will have the boob tube on and whatever channel has ‘em on, well that is the one I will be watching. GO BRAVES, please prove me wrong.

By Tad

June 13, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

Since T. Mo’ doesn’t offer a proper rebuttal or any real substance in this article, I wanted to share my review of Jayson Stark’s book about Andruw Jones.

Jayson Stark uses flawed logic and skews statistics to try to support his unfounded opinions comparing selected players to a mythical baseball popularity rating system influenced by his employer’s industry. It is very apparent in his arguments that he does not have a very deep knowledge of the history of baseball and doesn’t attend or watch many games outside of the Philadelphia / New York / Boston area. Ironically, Stark is a voter for the Baseball Hall of Fame and the word “truth” is in the title of a book about his perceptions.

A more relevant topic for a reputable sports journalist would be a book that actually focused on the careers of the best baseball players at each defensive position in the history of baseball and their statistics, rather than overrating and underrating players compared to their position in a fictitional popularity contest. However, it is apparent that Stark’s view of “baseball history” is vastly skewed towards the present day and his view of player performance does not involve entire careers.

A sample segment attempts to support his opinion that Andruw Jones is the “most overrated centerfielder of all time,” a position Stark defends by using “zone rating,” which baseball experts know was invented by John Dewan, the former CEO of STATS, Incorporated, then altered to eliminate extra credit for double plays, then changed again to penalize players for catching balls caught outside a subjective “zone” (OOZ) area of the field. These formula changes, along with the fact that the zone calculations are performed by many different people with different opinions of proper fielding zones while negating defensive positioning changes and irregularly shaped ballparks, would cause differences in the calculation of this statistic over time. This is the reason it is considered by many as an inadequate formula for true comparisons of defensive ability, particularly for players who make plays in the OOZ area, like Andruw Jones on a daily basis.

Based on his lack of understanding on the zone rating statistic, Stark claims that Andruw Jones lets 100 balls over a 162-game season drop that he was supposed to catch. I challenge him to show me 10% of that in a season, although I would be shocked if he was able to count them on one hand. Then we could look at the countless highlight-reel catches that Andruw Jones makes, all of which are “out of zone” and not included in the second revision of the zone rating formula.

A more consistent, fact-based defensive statistic is fielding percentage, but it contains data that contradicts the opinion of the author. Andruw Jones has a higher career fielding percentage (.991) than the other legendary, perhaps accurately rated, although maybe underrated centerfielders included in this chapter: Willie Mays .981, Mickey Mantle .982, Joe Dimaggio .978, Ty Cobb .961, Kirby Puckett .989, & Ken Griffey, Jr. .986.

Stark also misquotes that Joe DiMaggio has the highest slugging percentage of any retired right-handed hitter at .5788. This is simply incorrect as Jimmie Foxx (.6093), Hank Greenberg (.6050), and Mark McGwire (.5882) are all retired right-handed hitters with a higher career average.

The book does not accurately represent the history of baseball and is merely the unjustified opinions of the author, who is a baseball journalist and voter for the National Baseball Hall of Fame, but is more suited to be selling peanuts and hot dogs at baseball games than writing about them.

This book is a waste of time and paper. It contains unfounded, biased opinions that are supported by citing “a baseball scout” and giving incomplete and incorrect statistics rather than fact and sound logic.

<>-<>-<>

By MELNEE

June 13, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

I THINK THAT THE BRAVES SHOULD KEEP ANDRUW JONES AND HE IS THE BEST CENTERFIELDER EVER BESIDES WILLIE MAYS SO JAYSON STARK IS RIGHT

By matt r

June 13, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this

I think the vehement comments on this board that Andruw is the greatest greatest greatest ever kind of prove that he might be overrated. He has lost a step the last few years and might not be the best CF in MLB right now. Stark also relied heavily on declining offensive numbers and showed that even in Andruw’s 50 HR season, it was probably the worst offensive 50 HR season ever in history.

Even though he is overrated I will still miss him. Next year’s opening day lineup:

Johnson LF Renteria SS Escobar 2B Jones 3B Francouer CF Saltalamacchia 1B McCann C Fast Willie RF Smoltz P

By Bushwacker

June 13, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

Those idiots in NY don’t have a clue. Has Andruw lost a step speed wise, maybe? But he’s STILL better than anyone who has ever played the position defense wise including Willie Mays, Mickey the drunk Mantle and Joe D. And he will have his 30 hr’s and 100 rbi’s like always!!!

By matt r

June 13, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

Stark’s entry:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2880979

By D-Cider

June 13, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

I only saw Mays in the twilight of his career, but when I go back and watch his highlights they are incredible. As far as biased opinions go, I am sure I can always get an objective opinion from a AJC jerk and a bunch of hometown fans.

By Bushwacker

June 13, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this

What an idiot, to say he catches 100 less balls a year is a joke unless he can prove that the exact same amount of balls are hit within his range of previous catches every year.

If those morons from NY watched every day they would know why he might actually be catching less balls, its because he has players playing beside him now that cover more ground than previous players and they are catching some of the balls that Andruw would have caught had they not been able to get to them.

Jeff Francouer and Ryan Langerhans are the reason Andruw might have caught less balls the las 2 years!!

That’s the problem with reporters and the press in general, they don’t watch the games before they form their moronic opinions!!!

By Todd A

June 13, 2007 6:40 PM | Link to this

Yeah,Terence.He’s vastly underrated.Let’s give Andruw 17 mil $ a year(roughly 20 % of our payroll).Sign him up.I especially love how he consistently kills rallies with strike outs and double plays at the most inopportune times.That career .260 avg is the stuff legends are made of.And what a team leader.I love how he sets an example by listening to his coaches.You want championships?0 World Series rings with this guy in the middle of the lineup despite 3 Hall of Fame starting pitchers on the roster for much of his Braves career.Yeah,Terence.He’s vastly underrated.Give him a lifetime contract.Willie Mays only wishes he was half the ball player Andruw Jones is.

By Eric from MO

June 13, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

The reason it looks like Tori Hunter runs so much better is because he has to. AJ gets such a better jump on the ball. As soon as it is hit he knows where it is going. As far as all time I would put Andruw in the top three. Ken Griffey in the 90’s and Willie Mays are the other two. Im way too young to ever see Mays play so Im not going to put them three in any order.

By mike

June 13, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this

Andruw is an absolutely great centerfielder and he is not a showboat; he showboated once years ago and Bobby took care of that right away! He is not just an average bat either… yes, he has some of the biggest slumps of any player that you will ever see, but he also has some of the biggest hr and rbi binges of players that you will ever see. Yes, he strikes out a lot, but he also walks a lot…He is not an average bat he is an above average bat and an exrordinary fielder. Stark obviously didn’t ask Smoltz, Glavine, or Maddux what they thought. If you want to sell books print something controversial even if it is bs! Andruw is the best centerfielder since Willie hands down!

By Todd A

June 13, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this

Andruw has put this team on his back and carried them once in his career.Once.That was a 6 week stretch during May/June 2005.He was money for that time period.I’ll give him that.For the remainder of his career,he has not lived up to his hype at the plate.He was heralded as the greatest prospect ever produced in the Braves organization coming up through the minors.After 10 1/2 years of watching him,count me in as not being impressed with Andruw as the total ball player,not just what he does in center field.Great glove,yes(probably understated).Best I’ve seen defensively,along with Griffey before his injuries.But,with salaries being what they are these days,you can’t pay the type of money Andruw/Boras are demanding for just a defensive specialist.Keeping Andruw doesn’t make fiscal sense.

By BnB

June 13, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

terrence=zzzzzzz

By Chip

June 13, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

This is an old story, but Andrew has been a mystery to me since 1996-Great fielder, but streaky at the plate. He was brought up way too early in ‘96, the Braves should have let him stay in the farm system a year or two more to learn how to actually hit. I don’t think it’s entirely his fault-He hit the bigs young and was expected to hit like a big leaguer.Too many bad habits-The only year he hit .300, he had Don Baylor and that made all the difference.

By Psack

June 14, 2007 6:37 AM | Link to this

RACE

why is it that the persons posting comment always bring up race even when Terrance doesn’t???

Now really who is preoccupied with this subject? How bout just discuss the topic and leave race out?

Unless of course that is all you think about—blooper

Now back to the topic—Andrew STRIKES OUT WAY TOO MUCH but his DEFENSE is off the charts!! no one better!!

By bevsouth

June 14, 2007 8:14 AM | Link to this

Mr.Moore you are a disgrace to your profession. Cudo’s to Jeff in Roswell,The Grinch and Scott for their insightfu rebuttals to your diatribe. As for Chris Brown( racist like you Mr Moore)you are pathetic. If Hank Aaron is not the all time face of the Braves then who is. The AJC should be ashamed of having Moore on their staff. Unless of course all this race baiting is simply a ploy by Moore to sell papers.

By Coach

June 14, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Andruw Jones: Hall of fame glove in the outfield , triple AAA bat in the box. There you go , this is the conundrum that AJ is.

By dax

June 14, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

First give TP a break. He did not bring one racial slant on this article… But some people can’t let things alone.

Now AJ has not missed hardly any games due to injury. But the same can not be said for Griffy or Hunter for that fact. Although AJ has more strike outs he is still the best fielding CF I have ever seen. Yes Hunter and Griffy have got good speed, but AJ’s best feature is his ability to get to those shallow balls. Heck anyone can run down a high hit fly ball. Even Klesko did that. But they way he gets to those low line drives, that others let bounce amazes me. His batting has not been what we had hoped and he has struckout allot of times with runners in scoring position this year. And he nas not stepped up and carried the team during Chipper’s injuries this year. But he is not the only one not playing as good as they were the first few months. McCanns needs to go on the DL for a week or so and let his ankle heal. He favors it every time he swings.

Now I used to harp about small ball the first of the season. But I analyezed every loss and there was only one that we could have one by playing small ball. And WH tried to bunt twice with runners in scoring position but failed and instead he hit into a double play. I think he should have still tried with 2 strikes. All it would have been was 1 out instead of 2.

We need another arm. I think we sould use the 5 spot for a different arm each start. We may discover the missing link. And besides what is the worst thing he could do loose.