AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2007 > June > 06 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBraves need pitching now, not later
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Mark Bradley
A week ago, Braves president Terry McGuirk said: “Everyone feels like we’re going to be a playoff team.”
Allow me to introduce myself: I’m the guy who doesn’t feel this is going to be a playoff team.
Since starting the season 7-1, the Braves are 26-26. They just lost three of four to the sub-.500 Marlins in a series where John Smoltz and Tim Hudson worked and Dontrelle Willis didn’t. What we’re seeing is what more than a few folks figured would happen the longer the season went: The starting rotation has been reduced to Smoltzie and Huddy and Hope You Get Lucky.
A telling stat: In their 26 starts, Smoltz and Hudson have worked at least six innings while yielding three or fewer earned runs — a “quality start,” in the vernacular — 21 times. The rest of the rotation has produced quality starts 11 times in 34 outings. The Braves got away with it so long as Smoltz and Hudson won every single time, but Hudson has lost three of four and has seen his ERA, which was 1.40 after a stellar April, climb to 3.09.
Kyle Davies started Wednesday and yielded five runs before he recorded nine outs. “We were down five before it ever got started,” manager Bobby Cox said, and that’s what happens too often to teams with a shaky rotation. (It is, by way of contrast, what almost never happened to the Braves from 1991 through 2002.)
And here’s the worst part: A shaky rotation tends to get shakier as the games and innings mount. The Braves are counting on the reactivated Lance Cormier — “We hope he can pitch the way he did last year,” Cox said — to make a disproportionate impact. But how, you ask, did Cormier fare as a starter last season? He was 2-4 with a 4.31 ERA.
Already Mark Redman has come and gone, and already Davies has seen his ERA ascend to 5.31. You can make the case that the Braves have been unlucky — “All our [starting] pitchers aren’t here,” Cox said — but how realistic was it to hope that Mike Hampton, who hadn’t pitched since July 2005, would be the same guy he was? (As it happened, Hampton remains the same guy he was in one respect: He’s hurt again.)
Too many questions had to be answered correctly for this rotation to carry its weight. Too many fair-to-middling pitchers had to turn into 15-game winners. And now, with 60 of 162 games gone, we see what the Braves must do if they’re to play beyond Game No. 162: Find another reliable starter, and they can’t wait until the July 31 trade deadline to do it.
The Braves ran neck-and-neck with the Mets deep into May, but New York has begun to open a gap. (And the Mets figure to get Pedro Martinez back at some point.) For a time, it seemed the wild card would hail from the NL East, but San Diego and Arizona and Los Angeles, all of which pitch better than the Braves, have pulled ahead of the hometown club. The Braves have enough good players to stay above .500, but without a stouter rotation they can’t hope to run off 12 of 15 and separate themselves from teams that can deploy a stout starter most every night.
“We all know what we need to do,” Davies said. “Trust me, we want to win as much as anybody else. I want to go seven, eight, nine innings every time and give our team a chance to win.”
Reality check: Davies has worked four quality starts in 11 tries. On Wednesday, he was gone after five innings, his team chasing yet another game.
There are things to like about these Braves: The bullpen is superb and the hitting is robust. But we saw for more than a decade why baseball men insist that starting pitching is the game’s greatest determinant, and we see now why the Braves as constituted will fall short of the postseason.
A team can overhaul only so many five-run deficits. A team cannot subsist over a six-month trek when three of every five games are shrouded in uncertainty.
Permalink | Comments (134) | Post your comment | Categories: Braves / MLB, Mark Bradley
Comments
By SR
June 6, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this
This team has poor starting pitching
It is also poor defensively
It has no team speed
It has, by most accounts, an unfathomably woeful bench.
Other than one or two spots, it has a poor bullpen.
Any questions?
By Me
June 6, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this
FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I RULE!!!!!!!!!
By Pete & Skip
June 6, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this
I wish pitching was the only problem right now. Our bats look tired and slow this whole series.
By Pete & Skip
June 6, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this
I wish pitching was the only problem right now. Our bats look tired and slow this whole series.
By Rick
June 6, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this
Give me a break! The hitting stinks! Start with the usual screwup in Andruw Jones. I just read a book that names him the “most overrated center fielder of all time.” I COULDN’T AGREE MORE! I have never been a fan of his. He is lazy, selfish, and more than anything else a STRIKEOUT EXPERT! Get rid of him! Yeah, the pitching has been poor, but look at how many runs we score. I look at our lineup and it doesn’t look worth a damn. How can a pitcher be afraid of Mr. Strikeout, Diaz, Thorman, or other lousy players like Woodward and Orr. As for the pitching, get rid of Paronto, McBride, Yates, & Moylan. They sucked last year and suck this year. We need some hitters to go with Jeff and Brian. This team needs FRESH BLOOD!
By TN Jeff
June 6, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this
What about the long relief pitching? It’s not good either. Villereal consistently gives up runs / Paronto looks terrible / McBride cannot be relied on to throw strikes in pressure situations / Basically if the relief pitcher was on this team last year - get rid of him (save Wickman).
What happened to all the talk about Andruw Jones coming out of his slump. OK, so he’s striking out less. His average is dropping again - .219 I think. This guy refuses to make adjustments & is uncoachable. Nobody needs to coach his defense but where can you hide him in the batting order?
By D-Cider
June 6, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this
the farm system seems to have serious problems in developing pitching. There was a time when it appeared that prospects could be dealt for veteran players or brought into the majors and now it isn’t happening. Even, the prospects that have been dealt, Marquis and Wainwright haven’t been impressive.
The braves are only middle of the road when it comes to pitching and that will keep them from any extended winning streaks.
By cg
June 6, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this
Andruw Jones makes me so mad because you can tell everytime he swings at the ball he is going for a home run. And 90 perecent of the time he either strikes out or pops up to the infield.
Atlanta needs to focus more on pitching instead of fielding. We bring up these great infield prospects and then trade them away for almost nothing. How about some pitching prospects that can stay and make a good impact like Francoeur and McCann.
By Stuart
June 6, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this
This team is just really bad right now. They are not hitting at all. They have not mounted a rally to bail out a Starting pitcher since the Colorado series. There are too many places in the lineup that pitchers can go to get outs. When that is the case, rallies are cut short and you don’t get crooked numbers (2 or more runs in an inning, kinda like the cubs did on Sunday) on the board and you get beat.
There are too many holes in the rotation. We do not have enought starting pitching to get on a 6 or 8 game run. The 4-2 road trip was great, but you cannont bookend it with 1-6 on the homestand. The blame for that falls at the crappy starting pitching from everybody. You cannot loose a game with your ace, even if it is the second of a double dip after your 6th starter wins, yet the braves did, because they didnt hit. Even with the bad pitching, hitting is what is killing this team.
The offense is spurty and the SP sucks. If the Braves are in 3rd in the NL east at the end of the year I will be shocket. This team will win 83 games, tops.
By Jack
June 6, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this
I did not think the Braves were a playoff team until now, Bradley is such a lousy analyst and writer, that now I believe they will make it. Mark—-stick to something you are good at—-character assination
By thedust
June 6, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this
Couldn’t agree more Mark.
The 3-5 spots in the rotation are a very large question mark. Kind of like the closer question mark from a year ago. Unfortunately, Shuerholtz refused to make a “careless” move until it was already too late. I feel that he will do the same again. After all, I can’t remember the last good deal the guy made. Perhaps the McGriff deal back in ‘94. Betemit and LaRoche take the cake.
Our offense is stuctured to score on homers alone. This is the Bobby Cox/American League philosophy.
Our bench is not very good.
Willie Harris should play every day.
The trade of LaRoche looks laughable at this point. Gonzalez is hurt and Thorman couldn’t hit a ball off a tee. Get rid of him and try Salty at first, or trade him for a starter.
The bullpen has been solid when they have a lead. They seem to follow suit of the starters in front of them.
The offense has been built around (so has the payroll since 2000) Chipper Jones. Sure he has been hurt now for the fourth consecutive year, but the difference is McCann is playing hurt and Andruw is not producing. That pretty much spells doom, when Bobby Cox plays favorites like always.
Suggested line-up
1- Harris 2- Escobar 3- Johnson 4- Renteria 5- Francouer 6- McCann/Salty 7- Andruw 8- Salty/Thorman 9- Pitcher
Cox, for once be a coach and not a cheerleader!
By Najeh Davenpoop
June 6, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this
Bradley’s right, the Braves have to deal for some pitching if they want to contend in this division — this was obvious even in April when the Braves were winning. Unfortunately, that’s not the only problem for this team. The Braves have four players in Matt Diaz, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Willie Harris, and Yunel Escobar who are fully capable of being good major league hitters, and yet all these players are playing part-time while the clueless Scott Thorman is our everyday first baseman and while Andruw Jones is hitting like a 7-year-old in T-ball. It’s not like the Braves don’t have the hitters to be a powerful offense, but if those hitters aren’t in the lineup regularly, there’s no point.
It’s impossible to get all four of those guys at bats on a daily basis when you have established players like Renteria, McCann, Francoeur, etc. already in the lineup. But there’s no reason why any of them should lose playing time to Scott Thorman and Chris Woodward like they did today. If the Braves can’t find a way to get Salty, Escobar, Diaz, and Harris at bats on a daily basis, they should trade one or two of them for a quality starter, because it makes no sense to have them rotting on the bench every other game while Davies or Cormier is giving up five runs in the first inning. Obviously if the Braves can sucker some team into taking Thorman for a decent starter they should do it, and obviously they should try to avoid dealing Salty as much as possible. But if they have to give up Diaz or Harris in a deal for a quality #3 starter they should seriously consider it.
By Fastfoodfreak
June 6, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this
Hello, everybody.
been awhile since I posted (about 3 years). just got back from a cruise in the Persian Gulf. Got to see the Braves once on AFN (Armed Forces Network) It was the Sunday game at Shea at which they hit two three-run homers to beat the Mets. Proud moment to be sure!
The truth is… no one knows how this team will do the rest of the year. All we can do is speculate. Obviously the pitching needs to ramp up, and Andruw screwing himself into the ground on every swing is getting old (okay, past the point of getting old). But, maybe they WILL get better! Maybe the pitching WILL stop being so atrocious. Who knows. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
BTW, great to be back in the good ‘ol USA!!!
By Kentavo
June 6, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this
Bradley’s right on this one. Last year and this year, it’s the starting pitching that’s really the core of the problem (despite last year’s terrible bullpen). Look at the Baby Braves year (2005) - the starting pitching basically carried the team despite having all the rookies in the lineup. They need one more quality starter (at least as good as Hampton) to have any hope of making the Wildcard.
I’m pretty sure Shuerholz knows this and is cooking up something and it will probably, unfortunately, include Salty and/or Yunel.
By chris
June 6, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this
Another year, samd results!! Trade Andruw, who will be gone after this year anyways,get some good pitching help,put Willie in center and Diaz in left….and i would package that first baseman in with Andruw and get a bat there….right now we have no bats from the center fielder or first….trade’em both!
By Joshua
June 6, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this
guys there only 4 games behind the mets. and i hate to tell ya but the mets are drouping games they should win also. what games is nothing. get us one more good pitcher and we should be fine. move jones to the 8 spot,let harris play every day. it’s clear the kid is out there to play hard and win.
maybe they could move rafel sario (spelling) up to a starter?? the guy is amazing but davies in the pin. throman at fist has to stop.
By Bob
June 6, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this
Welcome home Fastfoodfreak. Spent 8 months in Balad, Iraq and saw Braves and Dawgs on AFN. Hope you are right but Braves look like a whupped team right now. And I am not so sure the Mets are going to be the main issue. They stink right now too…the Phillies may actually be for real if they can fix their bullpen. No one is laughing at Jimmy Rollins now.
By SNH
June 6, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this
Good points, Mark but the offense is struggling too. They look like a completely different team without Chipper. It might be time to shakeup the order and try Kelly Johnson in the 3rd spot so he can drive in some runs. Maybe batting Willie Harris and Escobar or Renteria in front of him could shake things up a bit until Chipper returns. We’ve got to stop starting some players like Orr and Woodward and Prado as much as we are. They are simply not producing. When I’m at the game and they are in the lineup I feel as though I should get a discount on the ticket since I’m seeing a discounted lineup.
By shepherd18
June 6, 2007 11:23 PM | Link to this
It feels like this ship is sinking. It is time to make a move before it is too late. I am usually the ultimate optimist, but the starting rotation has been totally inconsistant, the bullpen is suspect(with the exception of Soriano and Wickman, but it doesn’t matter if you can’t get to the 8th & 9th with the lead, and the lineup is suspect especially with injuries to C. Jones and McCann. We need help and now!
Btw, I have a couple of questions:
Why did Bobby bench Edgar today in favor of Woodward with an already depleted lineup?
Why is nobody commenting on the five stolen bases allowed by Salty today?
By Its Bobby Cox
June 6, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this
I blogged this earlier in the year, this lineup was slow. Since that time they have brought up Harris, Salty and Escobar. The Braves need to move Chipper to first when he does get back. Make a move to get Ken Griffrey out of Cincy. Move Andrew to a contender if someone wants him. A lineup of Harris, Renteria, Chipper,Griffrey, McCann, Frenchy,Escobar, Johnson would produce runs. You can platoon Salty at catcher, first. Diaz is a good pinch hitter. This is a run producing lineup and wouldn’t cost much to make happen. Try to move dead wieght like Thorman, Andrew, Woodward and whatever to get some pitching. Pitching is not that easy to get as Bradley is making it. James and Davies have got to step up. Would be easier to do with some bats in the lineup.
By bravehart
June 6, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this
By once in the life cox there are the things affluent was davies outside paronto make nothing in brave, outside woodward outside orr if in fact the brave ones want to improve and to change and to arrive far change andruw, chipper and davies and saltalamachia by GOOD players we do not fall in sentimentalities and we lose another anus but mine it is to win and the one that does not see it thus is so that this blind person
By bravehart
June 6, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this
By once in the life cox there are the things affluent was davies outside paronto make nothing in brave, outside woodward outside orr if in fact the brave ones want to improve and to change and to arrive far change andruw, chipper and davies and saltalamachia by GOOD players we do not fall in sentimentalities and we lose another year but mine it is to win and the one that does not see it thus is so that this blind person
By bravehart
June 6, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this
By once in the life cox there are the things affluent was davies outside paronto make nothing in brave, outside woodward outside orr if in fact the brave ones want to improve and to change and to arrive far change andruw, chipper and davies and saltalamachia by GOOD players we do not fall in sentimentalities and we lose another year but mine it is to win and the one that does not see it thus is so that this blind person
By Bearcat
June 6, 2007 11:46 PM | Link to this
Trade the ole man Andruw “I’m a PULL HITTER” Jones and Scott “GOING GOING GONE” Thorman for a quality pitcher but please don’t get another Chris “I cannot believe they pay me this much” Woodward. Be smart and keep Salty and let Willie Harris run down those balls in center field. Play who is hot and don’t be afraid to sit down your high $$$$$ non producing players BC.
By just-bob
June 6, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this
A June 6 write-off, huh? Absurd and incompetent, like the paper overall. Devote a second of your time to this pathetic rag of an AJC and I’m sorry you are hopeless.
By Josh
June 6, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this
PLEASE TRADE ANDRUW JONES NOW JS, HE IS GARBAGE AND CAN’T GET A CLUTCH HIT TO SAVE HIS LIFE, DEAL HIM FOR SOME PITCHING, INSTEAD OF GETTING NOTHING. WE CAN’T CONTEND WITH A .230 HITTER BATTER 5TH AND 6TH… SORRY!
By bravehart
June 7, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this
trade chipper ,andruw , diaz, , woodward back to minors, my lineup
trade someone to texas or colorado or reds for texeira o helton o conine
find another Outfielder ..
1b : texeira or helton o conine 2b ; johnson ss: renteria 3b : escobar of: Jose Guillen
cf : crawford of ; francoeur c: mc cann & saltalamachia
sp : smoltz sp : hudson sp : Roy Halladay
sp : james sp: carlyle
this is a lineup champs .
By Najeh Davenpoop
June 7, 2007 12:11 AM | Link to this
By the way, Andruw Jones is a 10/5 player (10 years in the league, 5 with the same team) meaning he has veto power over any trade. In other words, it’s virtually impossible for the Braves to trade him.
By nelson
June 7, 2007 12:14 AM | Link to this
YEAH TRADED ANDRUW , CHIPPER AND DAVIES
the time is now , i like texeira or helton
maybe find a good outfilder crawford or dye
find another SP i like : halladay or burnett
but please do something!!! dammit !
By Scott
June 7, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this
Is it possible for any of the sports writers for the AJC to actually support Atlanta teams? It seems like every writer bashes our teams. I am just getting tired of it!
By thedust
June 7, 2007 12:43 AM | Link to this
Listen up,
Andruw, Chipper and Smoltz are three guys you can’t trade. The good news is Andruw is gone after this year. The bad news is Chipper is going to be here through 2009. That’s right, at least two more seasons of DL stints.
Also, if you don’t like the AJC or its Sports Writers, DON’T READ IT! They are suppose to be objective, not necessarily supportive or fans of Atlanta teams. That’s what Braves fans are for. Bradley’s points are correct. If you don’t believe it, then get your head out of your a*, drop the pom poms, and actually WATCH this damn team dissinegrate for a consecutive year.
And another thing, If it weren’t for the majority of the A (A stands for appathetic) “fans,” we would have more than just one championship. I’ve got news for the state of Georgia: THERE ARE OTHER TEAMS OUTSIDE OF ATHENS!
Look at it this way. If we had more papers and more support for Atlanta teams (i.e. New York), I promise you that each team in Atlanta would have a Championship. Until that time, the Braves will continue to fall short, the Falcons will continue to underachieve, the Hawks will continue to put out a devastatingly awful product. The only team that I see producing titles soon are the Thrashers, and it has a lot to do with the rabid following they have. Only the Bulldogs have a better following than the Thrashers in this state. Does anyone care about the Georgia Force? Didn’t think so.
Perhaps there are too many transplants in this city.
Then again, maybe we are just cursed.
By Lee
June 7, 2007 12:44 AM | Link to this
Have you guys no respect for Bobby Cox and what he and JS are capable of? I know it looks grim right now, but you guys are jumping ship WAY too early. Yes the team has holes, but EVERY team has holes. If we have to settle for a wild card then fine, I am ok with that, and I agree that some things need to change, like bye bye Thorman hello Salty, but those things will happen. It is just now June guys, so settle down and give our beloved Braves a chance to shine and they just might surprise you
By Terry Williams
June 7, 2007 12:56 AM | Link to this
Mark Bradley is so fickle. Let the Braves win 3 in a row and he will be singing their praises again. Truth is, Bradley isn’t that bright. He goes on these doctural thesis essays about an issue and then toatally contradicts himself when the winds blow differently. In one long season, Bradley will have the Braves as “best in class”, then worthless, then worldbeaters, then hitless slugs, then World Series favorites, then cellar dwellars……you get the picture. Does Bradley think we are so stupid that we forgot what he wrote 2 series ago? A great city like Atlanta deserves a better sports writer. Bradley is more “Wrightsville” talent than “Atlanta” talent.
By braint
June 7, 2007 1:01 AM | Link to this
Everyone needs to take a step back and take a deep breath….The Braves are playing poorly now but they are only 3.5 games behind the “mighty” Mets. When Chipper gets back, Orr or Woodward will be gone. Escobar is the real deal and needs to stay in ATL. BC should have a talk with Chipper and have him take ground balls at 1st. Otherwise, put Salty at 1st and let him spell McCann every 5th day. James has been pitching much better and Hudson will pick it back up. Davies is now due for a good start so I see a 4 to 5 game win streak in the near future. Stay positive folks! Although, we are 60 games in and AJ just does not look right. Remember in ‘05 when he was close to leading the lead with hits that put his team ahead? What happened to him? Bottom line, we need Chipper healthy, Devine up and Paronto down, and Smoltz’ shoulder feeling better. We are now due for a win streak! Today’s game sure did remind me of last year…couldn’t get close and then middle relief gives up a run or two every time. Easier in the 9th if you bat with the game 5-4 rather than 7-4….
By shepherd18
June 7, 2007 1:03 AM | Link to this
Texeira? Crawford? Halladay? In the same lineup no less? This isn’t a video game. You can’t just go pick up whoever sounds good. You have to be willing to give alot to get alot. Salty is about the best trade commodity we have (that doesn’t mean I think we should trade him). Andruw would veto any trade. We could not get much of anything for Thorman or Davies (I mean the rest of the league sees what we see). We don’t have that much to offer unless we give up good prospects.
By Braves Fan 79
June 7, 2007 1:08 AM | Link to this
I love the Braves…and i like Bobby…but man how do u start woodward or orr over renteria or diaz, or harris, or salty. The lineup yesterday was just sad and i shure pray to God that woodward gets his walking papers sooner than later!! Man i hate that guy…and the fact hes a ex met dosent help!! DUMP WOODWARD NOW!!!
Id much rather see prado at bat. Or Hudson….i mean why did bobby pitchit woodward for hudson the other night..??? Hudson is a much better hitter!!
By DAD
June 7, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this
I tried to tell you Braves fans back in May that this Braves team had to many weaknesses to contend with the Mets. My prediction about the Braves is coming true. I agree with Mark that this Braves team will not even come close to making the playoffs. This Braves team is sliding toward the bottom of the NL East. So Braves fans sit back and enjoy the Mets winning the NL East by a wide margin, and then, taking the World Series in 5 games.
By Dwight McClinton
June 7, 2007 1:30 AM | Link to this
It shocks and amaze me the number of so call fans that have already count the Braves out for this season. I think that the Braves are going all the way this year. They are only 3.5 games out. It is hardly over for the Atlanta Braves.
By Iman Expert Like Bradley
June 7, 2007 1:40 AM | Link to this
The AJC is NOT a major newspaper, and it won’t be unless it hires some competent writers IMMEDIATELY.
Recognize.
By Dwight
June 7, 2007 1:52 AM | Link to this
All this talk about trading Andruw I know he stinks right now but at least he is out there contributing to the Team look at Chipper my god he stays on the DL more then any member of the braves staff. Two things you can count on Andruw will snap back and Chipper will be out most of the season with one injury after another
By Coach
June 7, 2007 5:02 AM | Link to this
Mark ,I’m gonna agree to disagree with you. Yes , the back of the rotation is inconsistent but nobody is going to trade us a top of the line starter anytime soon. The real culprit has been the drastic , downward spiral in run support. I’m talking about the 1.5 runs a game drop since the end of April. It of course coincides with Chipper’s injury and subsequent trip to the disabled list. Cox’s style of offense depends on the long ball and extra base hit. His team’s are dependent on dominant pitching and defense. but , we already knew these facts about bobby ball. Yes , they are in trouble and they need more than just pitching. The Braves need a drastic shakeup in the lineup and Cox better understand that soon or his team will looking at a double digit gap between themselves and the Mets , not to mention a losing record by the end of June.
By Coach
June 7, 2007 5:20 AM | Link to this
Here are the cold hard numbers , read’em and weep. Run support last season 5.22 per game , in April 5.33 , in May 4.28 ans so far in June 3.71 and now you can understand my argument.
By Dudeman
June 7, 2007 6:05 AM | Link to this
Good Article. I believe though, that it is time to realize that Chipper is no longer an everyday player. While I think that when healthy, he is as good an offensive threat as anyone in baseball, you cannot count on him to be out there for 140+ games anymore. Rather than hearing about the Braves trading Salty & Yunel Escobar for a patchwork starter, let’s see what they can do. As painful as it might be to part with the face of the team (Chipper), be honest. Wouldn’ that free up some serious payroll? With the inevitable loss of Andruw Jones, trading Chipper now will free up payroll to sign other talent but also change the Braves from hoping for a three-run homer to a team more reminiscent of the early 90s that could run and take extra bases. Plus, the extra payroll could help add a young starter or two. Would Atlanta miss the post-season for a year or so? Yes, they would. But in the long run, as in the 90s, it would pay off.
By RA
June 7, 2007 6:13 AM | Link to this
Okay,
First off, I’d package Andruw and Thornton off for some starting pitching and make Salty the everyday first baseman. Then I’d move Chipper back to left field and move Harris to center. (Chippers body isn’t going to take the pounding at third much longer anyway.) I’d have Escobar as the starting third baseman. I feel like those changes would really help out the offense and the pitching.
One thing Mark, don’t give up on Davies. I remember back in 91 there was a guy by the name of John Smoltz. Had a terrible first half of the season and an incredible second half. It happens.
By TheCutMan
June 7, 2007 6:25 AM | Link to this
I’d like to know the status of the Braves’ minor league pitchers? Is the cupboard completely bare or could there be an arm or two worthy of a promotion to replace the guys who have not gotten it done?
As much as a trade for a proven starter would make sense, where does that guy come from, at what price, and how do the Braves outbid a Steinbrenner who is also looking around?
I agree that the team needs some shaking up. A revamped lineup where you play your best guys regularly would be a start. Where is Bobby Cox in this equation and why does he insist on his old tired ways of playing the guys he likes?
I’m feeling a lonnnnnnnng season ahead if the team stays on its current course.
By Charlie
June 7, 2007 7:01 AM | Link to this
“The hitting is robust”??? Where did that come from? If you don’t hit with runners in scoring position, it does matter how many you get on base. The RISP hitting is a joke. Add to that, lousy starting pitching (Smoltz is the exception…Hudson seems to be reverting back to his past NL form, as a .500 pitcher), and you’ve got the makings for an inconsistent, mediocre, .500 team at best. (Look out Washington,here come the Braves.) That is your 2007 Braves. Andruw is a feeling the pressure of his contract year, regardless of what he says. He’s always been sub par with RISP. In 2007 he is really tanking it. I never thought the day would come, but I’ll be glad when he is gone. He appears to be so bull-headed (or delusional), he’s beyond help at this point. He has the talent to be one of the greatest ever, but he’s too much of a head case. Too bad. Chipper will never stay healthy long enough to have a major impact on this team. Oh ya, the bullpen, though better than 2006 (and that wouldn’t take much)isn’t all that great. (Check th ERA) There will be no playoffs for this team. There are few strengths on this collective group. I’m sorry to have already spent money for good seats to watch this team play. They aren’t worth the price of admission.
By B.W.
June 7, 2007 7:19 AM | Link to this
The point is, the Braves need to beef up their whole roster. Too many wanna-be homerun hitters and not enough contact guys! A lot of times I see everyone get up and swing for the fences. It could be bases loaded with one out and everyone feels that they have to get up a produce a grand slam. Next, I feel Bobby Cox is starting to make bad managerial decisions. Let Willie Harris be your everyday starting left fielder. Prepare to trade Chipper Jones at the end of the year with Andruw not far behind. It makes my heart jump out of my chest everytime I see him swing at a ball 7-feet outside of the strike zone. Someone needs to teach these guys the basics of baseball again (including Bobby Cox)! When you’re down one run late in the game and you have the lead-off man aboard, you don’t let him get up there and swing! Bunt the runner over in scoring position to time the game. I’m not even going to talk about the pitching because it speaks for itself. Great job Smoltz, Soriano, Wicked-Man, and Hudson! I would trade every other pitcher! They suck! The organizations needs to do something to counter the explosiveness of the Mets! They don’t have a weak-spot in their line-up! If things don’t turn around soon, I’ll become a Mets fan!!
By No Dawgs Here
June 7, 2007 7:51 AM | Link to this
Hey here’s a news flash. Chippe Jones is way over paid!! He is nothing more than average (at best). Get rid of him, get new (better) players. Andruw Jones needs a wake up call. He is an awesome outfielder (no arguement), but his hitting needs improving. He needs to gain a better knowledge of the stike zone. He also needs to start hitting for base hits, instead of swinging for the fences everytime. Just my 2 pennies!
By mesmo
June 7, 2007 7:52 AM | Link to this
Throughout team sports the true winners put aside personal considerations to do what it takes for the team to win. When the team is down 3 runs in the bottom of the 9th and no one on base the winners understand that one man cannot score 3 runs by himself and try anything to get on base. When a batter in this situation has 2 strikes and is still swinging as hard as he can it follows that he is not conscious of helping the team but is stubbornly subverting it. How many times must we watch Andruw in this situation before concluding that he is not a team player but rather blinded by self interest and stupidity? How many times must we watch Bobby seemingly condone this type of behavior by playing him everyday, even when it is clear that he is so tired and confused that my mother could strike him out. And while we’re at it, how many years do we dream that old players like Chipper and Hamp can make it through a year and contribute consistently? And, oh yeah, the one pitcher who beat the Marlins was sent back down to make room for another relief pitcher with the likes of Paronto still in the pen and still pitching batting practice. It’s going to be a long, hot summer folks.
By bevsouth
June 7, 2007 7:56 AM | Link to this
Bradley is right but…easier said then done. How many teams have an abundance of quality starters? None so how are you going trade for one. The best you could hope for is some 4th or 5th guy and then you would have to give up Salty or Yunney. Best hope is someone down on the farm. Bring back Caryle the guy pitches a two hitter and they send him down!!!
By Melvin Flowers
June 7, 2007 8:02 AM | Link to this
We Are So Lucky The New York Mets Are Loseing To. The Braves Would Be In Forth Place. We Need Pitching Now, Will The New Owners Do Something. Don’t Sit Around We Need Help Now Not Later. If Not Forget The Play-Offs. Remember Last Season.
Melvin Flowers Macon Georgia
By Dave
June 7, 2007 8:06 AM | Link to this
**Matt Harrison, Dan Smith & JoJo Reyes all starting LH pitchers at Miss doing a great job. Why all the retreads to fix a starting rotation. Other teams use their young minor league pitchers why not the Braves. I know BC & JS like all the old crap so maybe they are the ones who should leave. It’s a young man’s game.
By chipdip
June 7, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this
PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????WHATA’ MEAN THE PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????ARE YOU KIDDING ME….THE PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????????????????????
By Gene
June 7, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this
For being such a macho guy, it is amazing how easily Chumper is injured. He and Andruw are big disappointments, and God help us if Smoltz gets hurt. The Braves can still play pretty well at times with guys like Harris and McCain, and I think that .500 ball is about all we can expect.
By billy g
June 7, 2007 8:21 AM | Link to this
Smoltz (40 years old), Hudson (good pitcher that has to deal with constant nagging injuries), Hampton (never has lived up to his contract).
Why would any logical mind believe that the above listed starting rotation could survive an entire season?
What is amazing to me is that we just extended Smoltz’s contract. Amazing!
By RC35
June 7, 2007 8:22 AM | Link to this
Pitching is a problem, but Walter Johnson and Sandy Koufax would have a hard time winning with this lineup of “hitters”. Prado, Woodward, Orr, and Thorman should all be at AAA right now, and Francoeur, Andruw, and McCann are all battling their own types of slumps. It’s mighty hard to win when the only hitters are Johnson, Renteria, Diaz, and Harris and when Bobby won’t play the last two in the lineup on the same day.
By mart
June 7, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this
The Braves are just a mediocre team, and are closer to being a bad team than a good one. Unless ownership decides to infuse some major cash into the budget the Braves will, at best, get the usual results of a mid-market team.
By Mountain Man
June 7, 2007 8:35 AM | Link to this
You guys have it all wrong. The sore spot on the team is Chipper. He won’t play if he has an eyelash out of place. Frenchy needs a broom to hit the balls he swings at. Maybe both A. Jones and Frenchy need to take batting lessons from Diaz.
By Steve in S. Ga
June 7, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this
to all you geniuses that say “trade Andrew”: they can’t. He’s a “10/5” player and he can and probably would veto any trade….
By 82DAWG
June 7, 2007 8:46 AM | Link to this
I said in March you could put a fork in this team (its done) and was blasted. I was told I didn’t know anything about baseball. Well I know enough after following baseball since 1966 what a pennant-winning team looks like, and this ain’t it. Holes at first, second and left. Three holes at Starting pitching. No speed, poor defense and third baseman who spends as much time on the DL as off.
I always am amused when people demand a trade for a quality starting pitcher. People - Its not like you go down to Sam’s Club and pick up Jake Peavy off the shelf. The key word in trade, is, uh, “Trade”. That means you have to find someone willing to part with the most valuable commodity in baseball for a similar value at another position. In addition, when other teams smell desperation, you typically have to give up more than you get. So, what position on this already thin team do you rob in order to get this elusive starting pitcher that will put us back into contention? And what about the other holes? They aren’t going to heal themselves with retreads or 20 year AA call-ups.
By Apaul404
June 7, 2007 8:57 AM | Link to this
First of all, Fastfoodfreak, welcome home brother. B.W. if you want to be a Mets fan then go right ahead. Cause no real Braves fan would say some heinous trash like that. Lets look at some numbers. 92,461,852 the braves team salary. Which is 8th highest in MLB. 14,475,185 Mike Hampton’s salary. Too bad, so sad, 77,986,667 is what you are left with. And that puts us 17th in MLB just 2 mil behind Toronto. What kind of team could you put together it that number? That is why we have all the young kids who maybe should still be in the minors sitting on the bench. I say cut some of the dead weight like Woodward, Paranto, Orr. And if granted Thorman was 3 for 5 Wednesday. If he keeps over swinging he should leave too. But who would we replace them with? Either way the Braves have been good too me so I’m going to hang in there with them through the hard times. But boy it’s tough to watch sometimes. Go Braves!
By ladbaby
June 7, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this
The bullpen is set. Smoltz and Hudson need to win their starts in this stretch while Davies gets his “land legs” after sitting out a year. We are going to be good at some point. Inconsistent hitting worries me more than anything else. It is time begin to dominate some games. I think we will.
By Will
June 7, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this
Thank You!! I have been saying for several weeks now the Braves are a .500 team and it is that simple. I am honestly sick of seeing these guys act like they should be playing better. They have one good starter, one decent starter, and three crap starters. Two good relievers and Chipper Jones just may be the softest player in MLB.
By tim
June 7, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this
not having chipper in the line up is really hurting us. it makes people hit in spots where they don’t belong. i think when they get healthy they will still make a run at the division or the wild card. they are still only 3.5 games out. i believe
By alvin
June 7, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this
Sit Andruw on the bench for all I care. Put Willie Harris in CF and Diaz in LF. I just can’t take the strikeouts anymore. And for him to be stubborn about not wanting to hit the ball where it is pitched make me think he’s not a team player, he’s all for himself. If you think pitching is a problem now, wait for Smoltz and Hudson to go on the DL. It sure looks like it’s going to happen. I agree that that ex-Met Woodward is a piece of crap. I don’t think he could start on the Little Leagues teams I’ve seen this year. I have talked a lot about the Braves to the Mets fans up here in NY about taking back what we loaned them last year, now it looks like I’ll be eating crow if we don’t make some moves with pitching. Forget about Mr. DL himself, Chipper, Escobar should be considered our 3B. It seems like every year, Braves management tries to sell up on some prized rookie that they feel is ready. Well, as I see it Thorman is overrated. He fits the mold of the Andruw, Francoeur, Chipper; free swinger with not plate discipline, trying to jack everything.
By Realistic Ricky
June 7, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this
The Braves have been unlucky with the Hampton, Gonzales and Chipper Jones injuries. The Kelly Johnson 2B experiment has been a success, while the Scott Thorman 1B experiment has been a failure so far. Better starting pitching is the Braves only hope to make the playoffs, but that is true for most every team in the major leagues, and many of them have better prospects to trade than the Braves. Andruw Jones has ALWAYS been a wild swinger who could not consistently hit off speed pitches, but now he can no longer hit the fastball, either. I would not bet the ranch that Andruw will break out of his current slump, as I do not believe he still has the mental toughness, physical skills or DESIRE to do so. Willie Harris, Escobar and Salty have all performed well and deserve more playing time, but I would not count on that based on Cox’s past track record of platooning “old” guys off the bench. This team should finish better than the 2006 club because of Soriano, Wickman and an improved Hudson, but I do not see the current group of 2007 Braves making the playoffs. I hope more than anything that these guys will prove me WRONG!!!
By Carroll
June 7, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this
Worse than anything, this team just isn’t even interesting to me anymore. At least back in the 80’s we had Dale Murphy to keep our attention a little bit. Now it’s just a bunch of overpaid primadonnas who won’t play if they have a skin rash or morons who go up to bat intent on swinging at every pitch no matter where it’s at or idiotic pitchers who are wildly inconsistent from one pitch to the next.
By S Mauney
June 7, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this
I think you have to worry if you are any games behind the Mets. Thorman has had his chances at first; put Salty in there. At least he is trying to put the ball “in play” and not trying to hit one to the moon. I feel Chipper is done for the year. I love Chipper but injuring both hands he won’t be any better until next year. I think you have to put Escobar at third and plan on him being your Third Baseman for the remaining of the year. Get him some bats and experience in the big leagues. What if Chipper should come back and gets hit in the hand by a pitch? Let him sit out the rest of the year and hope for the best for 2008. Andruw has already said he would no go to any other team via trade so the next best thing you can do is sit him the dugout and put Harris in at Center Field he has speed and he is actually hitting the baseball. If Andruw really cares about this team he would start listening to the coaches and find a way to get on base and give us a chance to win.
I think it is time for Bobby to have a team meeting with these players and chew their butts off. Being Mr. Nice Guy is not working.
By braves fan
June 7, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this
I think the Braves should give the White Sox a jingle and see what they might want in return for Mark Buehrle. He’s a free agent at the end of the season, which I wouldn’t generally encourage the Braves to trade for, but here’s why it might be a good deal. First of all, Buerhle is an innings eater. He’s never pitched fewer than 200 innings except his rookie season of 2000. He has a career ERA below 4, and all of that in the American league. If you bring him over to the NL, with it’s weaker teams and pitchers hitting, his success level should remain the same if not improve. Plus, the Braves are not likely to re-sign Andruw Jones, so that $13-15 million in salary that Andruw is taking up could be freed to re-sign Buehrle for a few years and the Braves overall salary could remain in the same $80-85 million that Liberty would like. Let’s be frank. The Braves do not have any starting pitchers on the farm who are ready to step in and be what Smoltz, Hudson, Buehrle or even what Chuck James is. So they need something to supplement their rotation until guys like Matt Harrison or Jo Jo Reyes are ready to hold down a spot. Plus they only have a couple of years left of Smoltz and Chipper Jones (and Bobby Cox and John Schuerholz), so they need to make the most of that time and try to win the World Series. Once Cox, Schuerholz, Smoltz and Chipper retire in 3-4 years, the Braves will be in full re-tooling mode. Why stand around hoping for the farm to deliver a 200 innings, 15+ game winner when you know that window for a World Series run is closing? Maybe the Braves can convince the White Sox to swap Buehrle and Jermaine Dye (also a free agent) for Andruw Jones (if he’ll waive his no-trade), and give them a chance to give Andruw a contract before he hits free agency. Maybe the Braves throw in a prospect to make the deal happen. Then the Braves can put Dye in LF every day, and put a Willie Harris in CF or call up a defensive minded CF from the farm, plug Buehrle into the rotation in front of Chuck James, dump Davies to AAA and have Lance Cormier bringing up the rear in the 5th spot. The Braves would lose a prospect and add 2.5 million in payroll (possibly offset by the insurance claim on Hampton’s salary due to injury). Other than the difficulty of getting Andruw Jones to waive his no-trade clause, why is this not a potential deal for Atlanta? The White Sox need to re-tool a bit and have shown interest in Andruw in the past. If the Braves don’t get to resign either Dye or Buehrle, then they are out one prospect which is like being out a bag of baseballs a lot of times, given the hit and miss analysis of predicting baseball prospects.
Any thoughts?
By SRF
June 7, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this
OK - this is crazy - please explain to me how this losing is because Chipper is out of the lineup ?? Is Escobar hitting as well as Chipper was before he left - pretty much yes, Is he fielding as well ? pretty much yes.
OK - now how about the rest ? Lots of slumps and lots of lousy pitching. Is Chipper going to fix this ? Nope.
But you say he is a leader - fine - he is right there in the dugout, he can teach the rookies and fire up his team as much as we wants.
Sorry - to think this is due to Chipper’s injury is quite a stretch.
They are just an incredibly average team with a fixed budget and an owner who cares more about pay-per-view movies than baseball.
By Jerry
June 7, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this
Does anyone else notice that Tim Hudson looks like he’s pitching uphill?
By pvbeachdog
June 7, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this
Where have you gone Leo Mazzone?
By Vol4ever
June 7, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this
You get what you pay for! Nuff said!
By shepherd18
June 7, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this
Are some of you people drunk? I keep hearing that we should bench Andruw and start Harris in CF. I’m sorry, Harris maybe fast, but he is not a great outfielder. Someone also suggested putting Chipper back in LF. As I remember, that experiment didn’t work out either. I love it how people play GM and skipper as if they know better than the guys that have been in the business for decades. You can rest assured that JS is working on getting a key piece to make a run, but like said before, we have very little trade bait to work with. In order to make a trade worth anything, we would have to lose a key prospect. So stay tuned and lay off the sauce!
By cory
June 7, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this
the biggest problem i see is hitting. it seems no matter who we face we strikeout 10 times every game. I think we need a new hitting coach, one who can teach some of these guys how to make contact with the ball, terry just doesnt have their attention anymore. I would also like to see a little more fire in the dugout. Too many wait and see personalities in there.
By David
June 7, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this
I believe we need to have a split catcher first baseman. Let Salty and Brian take turns catching and playing first. This way neither one’s legs tire and we have both of their bats in the line-up. Thorman reminds me of a left handed hitting Andruw, although at times he shows he can hit to left field. Cut down on your swing. James is starting to come around and with Smoltz and Hudson we have a good three. IF Cormier pitches like he did in spring training we will have a fourth. If Carlyle can pitch like he did against Florida then he could be a hidden gym. I have given up on Davies. He pitches a great game and then turns around and blows it in the first inning. If he is going to stay in Atlanta, someone has to get him more pumped up to start games. Salty really needs more at bats and higher in the order where there are people on base.
By Gasper
June 7, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this
Bring back the dwarf midget Marcus Giles. At least he was fun to watch twist into a pretzel, swinging for the fences every at bat.
By NoleRick
June 7, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this
Ever notice how our pitching has SUCKED since Leo left…….
By glenn
June 7, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this
We are one or two players away & our corporate ownership won’t get them for us . This situation would never happen in the NFL or a large baseball market for that matter . Baseball will get what it deserves . Apathy
By ChampDawg
June 7, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this
I like the young talent on this team— Francouer, McCann, Salty, Escobar, Thorman, Johnson, Harris, and Renteria. What drags this team down is Andruws typical p**-poor BA, Chipper again spending too much time on the DL, and a pitching rotation that just absolutely SUCKS!! And what makes matters worse is the “aw shucks” attitude from Booby Cox and JS sitting back and doing absolutely nothing about it until it’s too late. Stick a fork in the Braves- they’re done!
By Nola
June 7, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this
OK here I go with Bobby Cox again. He needs to stomp his foot down in front of somebody other than an umpire. Sit down Andrue Jones. Put Harris in centerfield. Keep Escabar at third base, and make Chipper play first with Thorman as backup. Play Saltalamaccia as much as possible. Trade for another starting pitcher. AND, leave pitchers in as long as they are pitching well. None of this setup closer crap or one pitcher one inning mentality.
By Tony
June 7, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this
I agree with most of your article, but the statement about Braves’ hitting being “robust” puzzles me. I think their hitting is terrible now.
By Savannah Guy
June 7, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this
David O’Brien got a quote from Kyle Davies in his article this morning: “If I come out and pitch [early] like I did in the fourth and fifth innings, we’re probably talking about something different”.
Oh, really? What, prey tell, might we be talking about Kyle? Perhaps we would be talking about how Braves win without reliable pitching other than Smoltz, Hudson, Soriano and Wickman? Maybe we could ponder together how management should be booting you down to Richmond? Hey, how about the weather…rain?
Inspired by Kyles helpful insight. How about this: If we find pitchers that can keep the other team from scoring more runs than we do, we will win.
And if pigs had wings they could fly. No mulligans in baseball Kyle.
By Savannah Guy
June 7, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this
Mark, completely agree. We need pitching now, not the end of July when our season is over without it.
Our 3,4,5 pitchers are like Forrest Gump might describe as “a box of cho-co-lates”. “You never know what your gonna get.”
By Jeff
June 7, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
Despite how good McCann hits he’s trade bait for a starting pitcher or outfielder. The rookie catcher is as good an option. Bottom line is they have to have another starting pitcher and a top notch outfielder.
By humbug
June 7, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this
Folks, get off Chippers case. He has punished his body for a lot of years by playing very hard. His body is fighting back. It can’t tolerate much more hard playing and we see the decline. But don’t ever call him a wimp, accident prone, or lazy. He was the heart and soul of the team for a long time. I would like to see him realize that and retire now. He does not deserve this bashing. He deserves our appreciation of a great player. Great players don’t last forever. But if he won’t retire he still has me as a fan.
By Lionel
June 7, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this
Mark, I even question whether the bullpen is superb. Other than Rafael Soriano and Bob Wickman, who can you really count on? Also, first base is a problem. Thorman is a project and is currently failing. We traded away Adam Laroche for a LH pitcher who dominated us last year but who has a violent delivery which ultimately led to his injury. Now we are stuck with no proven first baseman. Essentially Adam Laroche for nothing. No way is this a playoff team
By Donald Gunter
June 7, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this
The real problem? Start with that self proclaimed genius GM. He needs to trade Andruw and Thorman, if there are any takers, and try to get one decent pitcher. They certainly won’t miss their bats.
By Mark Bradley
June 7, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this
FYI: The Braves are third in the National League in batting average and runs scored, fourth in homers. They hit well enough to be a playoff team. They just haven’t pitched well enough.
By Jeff
June 7, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this
FYI: The Braves are third in the National League in batting average and runs scored, fourth in homers AND STEADILY MOVING DOWN THE LIST.
By Matt
June 7, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this
To Jeff,McCann is not trade-bait.LOL!
What a dumb post.DO you even follow baseball?
By Josh
June 7, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
Everyone praises Chippers when he’s healthy (being one of the best hitters in the league does that) and trashes him when he’s hurt. But he did get hurt trying to jump over a guy. Maybe he just should have been like Mike Lowell and ran him over. Before Escobar came up, we had Prado, Orr and Woodward playing third, which is a big difference.
Oh yeah…and where are all those “Martin Prado should be the 2nd baseman guys now”? Kelly’s surges and slumps are starting to even out and he looks to be a .300 hitter. Renteria is perhaps the best shortstop in the NL, and that’s saying a lot. Francouer has almost as many hits to right field this year as left, and his average is hovering around .300. McCann is slumping and playing hurt and is still hitting .280. Salty seems to be a very smart hitter. And the only problem with Willie Harris and Matt Diaz is that we can’t start both of them in left field at the same time.
The real problems are Thorman, who seems to want to crush every ball, and Andruw who simply isn’t making adjustments and is costing himself a pretty penny. I hear Matt Diaz can play first base…
As for pitching, Smoltz is solid as usual. Hudson’s ERA is just starting to climb above Smoltz, which after the last few starts he’s had just goes to show how dominating he was back in April. He hasn’t been getting crushed by homers so hopefully he’ll go through another dominating spell pretty soon. After that of course, is a mystery. Chuck James on a good day seems to only give you about 5 innings. Kyle Davies shows flashes of brilliance, and then he can’t control his fastball. Cormier’s big pitch in spring training was his curve ball which wasn’t there at Wrigley, so he’ll get one more chance to be decent.
The bullpen for the most part is fixed. Wickman somehow gets the job done. Soriano is dominating in close games. Yates is slumping but has setup guy stuff. Moylan has been surprisingly good and should see more action in games that matter. Villareal is our standard innings chewer. Paronto is approaching a Reitsma ERA.
The Braves two biggest problems are the starting pitching, and the fact that we very often get dominated by mediocre starting pitching.
By Jeff
June 7, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this
McCann couldn’t throw out a base runner in a wheel chair. And he’s slow and fat(probably like you).
By bravefansince54
June 7, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this
I fully agree with Mark’s assessment - as far as it goes, but hitting is a problem, too. Not a lot of power, speed (to put it mildly) , or clutch hitting in this lineup. I am, however, very tired of hearing about the supposedly poor bench. Nobody but losers worries about a bench. The only regular out of the lineup (Chipper) has very adequate backup in Harris and Escobar. True Woodward and Orr are not impressive, but look at the career stats of people like Roy McMillan and Felix Millan, who had similar numbers, but were starters for years. Let’s face it, bench players are bench players because they don’t hit for an average, usually, unless you are a Mark Belanger with a .220 average and great range. Leave this non- issue behind, please.
By Silverdogg
June 7, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this
The Braves need a Hitting coach. TP has not been able to get any of the players to improve. He has never been able to do anything with Andruw, Has made no adjustments to Thorman. Even when Langerhans was here he was never able to improve. The Braves will never be a feared lineup until they get a real hitting coach, not a gut who had 2 good years.
By L. M. Hull
June 7, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
The Braves need pitching, that’s true, but don’t tell me the Nats and the Fish have better pitching. They don’t! They have better hitting.
By Matt
June 7, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this
Jeff-I’ve concluded you’e an idiot who just doesn’t like BMac or doesn’t know baseball.Probably a combo of the both.So please,grace us by not posting anymore.
And FWIW,I’m 5’9 and 155 lbs.
Silverdog-Guess you skimmed right ove Bradley’s post that says the BRaves are 3rd in the NL in avg. and runs scored and 4th in HR’s.Yet TP is the problem?
We have some ignorant fans.
By AthensBrave
June 7, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
Hey Bradley, While the pitching is part of the problem, its not the only deficiency.I’m not sure if your watching the games. The Braves are third in batting average because someone gets a hit every inning, maybe two. The problem is that no one is hitting them in. Our home run total is inflated from the beginning of the season when we were smacking them out almost every game. Our run total is inflated because we’ve had a lot of blowout wins. But then the next day we can barely manufacture a couple. Inconsistent pitching and hitting are to blame
By RedandBlackAttack
June 7, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this
I agree that it is still too early to make a major trade. The Braves need to keep Salty and Escobar period. The players that can go are Andruw, Orr, and Woodard along with a few of the bullpen pitchers. Moylan may come around. Thurman can go back to Richmond to develop some more. I would rather see the Braves keep on developing their minor league talent. If Davies and James are not working, then send them back to Richmond or Mississippi and bring up some new arms.
The Braves can not trade away the young talent anymore. The return on their investment is too poor. Prado may be an exception since Escobar is blooming and Elvis is coming along. The only moves that the Braves need to make are from Richmond and Mississippi. Orr and Woodard hitting the road will provide the roster spots.
Harris, Diaz, Salty, AND Escobar need to be playing everyday. Andruw, Orr, and Woodard can hit the road. Chipper should not be activated until he is completely alright. His hands are nothing to fool around with. There is no need to take up a roster spot waiting for Chipper to heal. Keep him on the DL until he is ready to roll and play Escobar everyday until Chipper is sound and ready to get it again. Hang in there, things will come back around. Gooo Braves!!!
By Jeff
June 7, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
Where have you gone, Leo Mazonni…… The Braves nation turns it’s lonely eyes to you……
By jokurone
June 7, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
why is BC platooning so much this early in the season. he needs to establish a set lineup as the pitching looked great on paper turns out to be a paper tiger.JS needs to make a move now for starter. our middle relief needs relief you can see the cracks in the dam starting to widen.
By Coach
June 7, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this
Bradley isn’t paying attention , the man is totally unaware that the offense has gone in the tank. If you don’t score , you don’t win which makes the pitching part of his argument completely irrelevant.
By Matt
June 7, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
REDN’BLACK-The Braves CAN NOT TRADE ANDRUW!He’s a 10/5 player.10 yrs. in the majors and 5 w/the smae team.He can veto any trade.So he’s not going anywhere.
By Allen
June 7, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
“Smoltzie & Huddy and hope you get lucky” of course is a play on “Spahn & Sain and pray for rain” but if I recall Spahn & Sain’s Braves actually did fairly well. I think we’re just seeing some poor hitting right now and I don’t see why that should be surprising with our Hall of Fame 3B on the DL. That being said, I predict—sadly—that Andruw will be gone quite soon, as we do seem to have others who can fill positions and we don’t seem to be able to come up with a consistently reliable 3rd starter.
By Mike
June 7, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this
I agree that we need another top flight starting pitcher. Were I the GM, I would deem Francoeur, McCann, Salty, Escobar (because I can’t wait to see how their careers develop) and of course Smoltz untouchable. Anybody else whose contract will allow for it would be on the table.
By John
June 7, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this
THIS WAS OVIOUS AT THE START OF THE SEASON WHEN THE OWNER DID NOT PUT UP MONEY FOR STARTING PITCHING IN THE OFF SEASON. IT IS TIME FOR THE NEW OWNER TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE.
By Jeff Tredway
June 7, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this
How about some team speed? Hard to live and die by the homer when pitching can’t be consistent.
Braves = NL Wild Card
By bravehart
June 7, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this
the time is now, we cannot continue hoping to see that it happens, if to chipper improvement, if someday this excrement of davies does something, if finally James let be I prospect, if finally senores we will be able to arrive at one posseason without making the ridiculous situation watch like this the stage again: EMPTY! ! there nobody goes, that promotion class estan to him doing to the equipment, and they do not say to me that it is because they lose because chicago losing and fills all along, in atlanta does not happen
the stage always stays EMPTY and Later WE DEMANDED that the OWNER is spent so many million to invest if nobody goes to the stage is a complete APATHY on the other is hour to take steps forwards and not but if to chipper if andruw, we want to win no? good then we demand to these OWNER’S that if they have sufficient money that they do something by ours team that time in which ted to turner regal as owner in fact on the others I believe that ROGER MC DOWELL exceeds is hour to look for new coach this personage is a disaster like such DAVIES, ANDRUW, CHIPPER, WOODWARD, ORR look for new a first base, a LF and an enabled thrower a then dead and we will not be ready for which nonGOOD BYE comes if TO the 2007
By jaka
June 7, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this
I missed the game. How did Salty/pitchers give up FIVE stolen bases?
By MS BravesFan
June 7, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this
Let’s get Anthony Lerew off the DL list and back on the mound!
By bravesfaninthemidwest
June 7, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this
Most of these posts are laughable.
The Braves have been really bad lately. Yet they’re only 4 games out. That’s pretty lucky.
They have to get better starting pitching. But you can’t trade for it. Every team still thinks they’re in the race, and nobody trades good starting pitching. You have to try and roll the dice with someone like a Redman. Otherwise… it’s Kyle Davies stinking up the joint in 3 out of every 4 starts.
In my eyes, the only obvious move that needs to be made is to play Saltalamacchia over Thorman almost all the time.
The pitching will either come around or it won’t — but you can’t really make any deals right now. Everyone saying they should trade Andruw or McCann just don’t know what’s going on.
By Uncertain Fan
June 7, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
tsk, tsk…
By Jeff
June 7, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this
BMAC…..He obviously consumes plenty of them. Salty is going to be 10 times the catcher/hitter fat boy is. Matt, what’s up? You have man love for MCcann?
By tim
June 7, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
lets start with pitching, we could if we had more than two quality starters. AJ please trade this clown for a starter put willie in cf and let him play everyday he brings speed in the lineup. 1st base please get one thorman is going to be a nice player but he needs help lets use salty over there give him some ab’s. and bobby please leave the kid (johnson) in the lineup more than two days in a row. what happened to guys who would go for wks w/o taking a day off. the other clowns you put in are just that prado woodward and orr weak weak bench. if chipper can get over the boo boo on his hand what a powder puff i have never seen a pro athlete take off with weaker injuries put out to pasture maybe trade him to the AL so he can DH an get us someone who can play everday. other than this i think we’re fine
By B Elliott
June 7, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this
The starting pitching will come around but perhapes to late. Smoltz and Hudson are always a sure win if the offense scores some runs. I say trade Andruw Jones for a quality starter. A number of American League teams would love to get him. The Tigers, Twins, Angles, Boston and NY. I have listened to to analysts say the Braves need to wait until he get his average up. He will do that when he is traded. He is pressing due to this being the year he needs to put up big numbers. Put him in a new environment and watch him go off. In return we get starter number 3 that like Smoltz and Hudson can win everytime out if the runs are put up by the offense.
By B Elliott
June 7, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this
The starting pitching will come around but perhapes to late. Smoltz and Hudson are always a sure win if the offense scores some runs. I say trade Andruw Jones for a quality starter. A number of American League teams would love to get him. The Tigers, Twins, Angles, Boston and NY. I have listened to to analysts say the Braves need to wait until he gets his average up. He will do that when he is traded. He is pressing due to this being the year he needs to put up big numbers. Put him in a new environment and watch him go off. In return we get starter number 3 that like Smoltz and Hudson can win everytime out if the runs are put up by the offense.
By B Elliott
June 7, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this
The starting pitching will come around but perhapes to late. Smoltz and Hudson are always a sure win if the offense scores some runs. I say trade Andruw Jones for a quality starter. A number of American League teams would love to get him. The Tigers, Twins, Angles, Boston and NY. I have listened to to analysts say the Braves need to wait until he gets his average up. He will do that when he is traded. He is pressing due to this being the year he needs to put up big numbers. Put him in a new environment and watch him go off. In return we get starter number 3 that like Smoltz and Hudson can win everytime out if the runs are put up by the offense.
By tripper
June 7, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this
Trade thorman, willie, and escobar to Oakland for Harden the guy is brillant..good pitching will pick the bats up…simple takes the pressure off.
By TN Jeff
June 7, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this
I agree w/B Elliott - Andruw Jones should look appealing to American League teams who could use his fielding and then DH for him instead of their pitcher.
By knuxie
June 7, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this
BRadley is right, in a dog fight for the wild card in the last two weeks of the season can we really expect Davies or Cormier to give us a solid performance when the pressure is on? OF course not! WE need to trade for a quality starter NOW! I suggest trading Scott “Big Swing hit weak ground ball to second” THorman along with Matt Diaz for a decent pitcher. Make Salty your regular 1st baseman because he switch hits. Sure he’ll make a few errors while adapting. but he can win games with his bat. THorman is all but a garaunteed out. Harris looks solid defensively in left and with time will be able to hit lefthanders because he doesn;t bale out against them, plus he wears out right handers. I doubt with chipper’s hand problems if he will be a factor this season,anything from here on out he gives us is a bonus. If Andrew doesn’t find his stroke of old his value will drop by half of what it would have been.Andrew is an enigma. He is capable of doing so much with the bat but to see him with that 200 mile an hour swing is ridiculous. Like a hack golfer trying to hit a ball 300 yards. Timing is everything.
By a real fan
June 7, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
This may surprise everyone, but none of us get paid to make baseball decisions. Bobby and JS do. I have 100% faith in them. If they listened to the fans, Martin Prado would be starting at 2nd. We probably won’t be able to trade for a top of the line pitcher. However, some combination of Chipper, Salty, or Escobar (the most athletic, so most likely to pick up on it quickly) could learn to play first IF the guys who get paid to make these decisions figure Thorman can’t cut it. We’re 4 games back, there is no reason to freak out and trade guys.
By 82DAWG
June 7, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this
Okay, yea, I think the Padres will absolutely give up Jake Peavy for Scott “Big Swing hit weak ground ball to second” Thorman along with Matt Diaz.
C’mon, you have to really give up someone to get the type of pitcher we need. Do you really think anyone is going to give you a decent pitcher for those chumps?
By 82DAWG
June 7, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
Ahhhhhhhh!!!!
Why on earth do you think that Oakland is going to give the Braves Harden for Thorman, Willie, and Escobar? You have to give someone good to get someone good. Trading three chumps for one “brilliant” pitcher does not play!! Get real!
By Paul Kelly
June 7, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this
It’s funny, sometimes I see Davies pitch and I wonder “how can he lose?”. And then other times I wonder “how did he make it to the majors?” I still think he can develop into a good pitcher. They DO need some pitching. Trade Andruw or Chipper? Not so sure about that? Yeah, one’s hurt, and the other has strikeout issues. But both of those will improve. Chipper will be back, and Andruw can improve.
They’ll need to trade prospects for a good pitcher from a lousy team. Bradley’s right, though—they just don’t look like a playoff team at the moment.
By Allen
June 7, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this
I really, really hate to say it because I’ve enjoyed watching him for 10+ years now, but Andruw is the one to trade. We won’t be signing him and he’s the only bait to attract a quality 3rd starter we should be willing to part with. That being said, there’s only a few teams—those with the money to sign him—that are in the running, and only a few he’d accept going to. Don’t think the Yankees—they clearly have no pitching at all. What do LA, Boston, Anaheim (?) look like
By El Caganer
June 7, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this
The Braves are a good team. They need another piece or two of the puzzle to be a championship caliber team. They need to dig into their deep farm system and part with a prospect or two to get some starting pitching. I am not talking about totally raping the farm system like the Yankees but the Braves farm system is deep enough to part with a few. At least that is what teams in the Braves position with ownership who wants to win does.
For years since Time Warner took over ownership te Braves, they have fed us the line of not sacrificing prospects for the “future” of the franchise. Well now is the future and the Braves have yet to produce the replacements for Glavine or Maddux. The effective pitchers they have developed have either been traded or let get away because they did not want to pay them. The basic truth is they just don’t want to pay that extra money it would cost to trade for those missing pieces. This seems to be the same business model which Liberty Media is following.
How I wish Ted owned them again. He wanted to win and would spend what it took to do it.
By Marc
June 7, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this
How is it still possible that some of you don’t understadn that AJ can’t be traded unless he wants to?
By jch
June 7, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this
I suggested a couple of weeks back it was time to “throw in the towel” on this season. I didn’t mean this literally of course. What I meant was the head office needs to start making moves NOW to build a better team for the next few years; not make moves to try to make the playoffs this year. This is just not playoff team - period.
I also suggested at the time to trade Andruw now, while we can still get something for him from a playoff-hopefull team.
Unfortunately, considering his dazzling peformance this year, I’m not sure any of these “hopefuls” would offer much for him other than prospects.
It’s no secret we need starting pitching and I don’t know of any team with excess quality starters. And they certainly aren’t going to part with a piece of their rotation for a “slugger” batting .219 with 9 HRs, 38 RBI and 59 K’s…
However, we should get whatever we can get for him and do it soon. But don’t expect much given his K-avg is .275! Yep, that’s correct, he’s much more likely to strike-out than get a hit; this doesn’t inlcude fly-outs and ground-outs, just strike outs. Wow…
I like the idea of our outfield without him -
LF - Diaz CF - Harris RF - Francoeur
Harris definitely has the speed and seems to be pretty solid defensively - does he have the arm for it???
And who could argue with all your outfielders hitting over .300.
By jch
June 7, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this
Marc
I understand ‘druw can veto any trade deal but, I’m not so sure he wouldn’t be agreeable to a trade to a playoff-hopeful team. He’s going to need all the games possible to justify the contract he and Boras are certainly hoping for. Staying with the Braves makes it almost a certainty he’ll not see the post-season and no opportunity for contract-fattening play-off heroics.
By jch
June 7, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this
Marc
I understand ‘druw can veto any trade deal but, I’m not so sure he wouldn’t be agreeable to a trade to a playoff-hopeful team. He’s going to need all the games possible to justify the contract he and Boras are certainly hoping for. Staying with the Braves makes it almost a certainty he’ll not see the post-season and no opportunity for contract-fattening play-off heroics.
By true braves fan
June 7, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this
im so tired of all the ajc writers bashing all of the atlanta teams. and all of yall people calling yourself braves fans and then saying please trade chipper-he was freakin hitting .300 until he was injured. or trade andruw- hes slowly getting out of his slump, even if it is slow hes still getting out of it. so just stop your whining and get over yourselves and dont call yourself a braves fan unless you actually support them.
By 3Pitch
June 7, 2007 7:07 PM | Link to this
Mark Bradley should stick to college football or whatever else turns him on. Remember his ridiculous article that the Braves should trade the Jones boys? Well, his articles on the Braves have not gotten any better. Mark, why don’t you find something better to do rather than write about the Braves.
By DTM
June 7, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this
Everybody seems keen on trading Salty for a starter. I say he has WAY more tools behind the plate, especially his arm. Plus, he is going to hit for power. I say trade McCann for a starter, play Salty at his natural position and use Diaz at first, Harris in left. Can someone tell me why this isn’t better than trading one of your top prospects? Plus it gives you some playing time for someone who can actually hit for average at first and speed in the outfield. Bobby, READ THIS. JS, you too! Tman out
By Coach
June 8, 2007 12:18 AM | Link to this
One last question for Mark Bradley. What good will another quality starting pitcher do the Braves if they cannot score enough runs to support that pitching ?