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DEL.ICIO.USFundamentals give Europeans an edge
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Terence Moore
Year after year, Johnny can’t shoot, dribble, pass or defend, but he is perfecting all of those gyrations he sees on your average ESPN highlight.
Thus the following: Johnny is being phased out of the NBA, and Andrea, Eduardo, Menad, Radoslav, Mehmet, Sarunas, Zarko, Raja, Vladimir, and Thabo are being phased in.
Good. What this record explosion of international players into the league will do is force Johnny to become as fundamentally sound as many of those international players. Just so you know, many of those international players are as fundamentally sound as Johnny once was before those gyrations became the rage between the Pacific and the Atlantic.
“No question. I mean, there isn’t a doubt that American players will go back to the fundamentals, because if they don’t, they won’t have a job,” said Dominique Wilkins, the king of gyrations as the Human Highlight Film throughout his NBA playing career. Even so, Wilkins combined style with substance.
That’s unlike today, when Johnny doesn’t get it, but Fabricio does. Added Wilkins, who also played in the European League, “Most international players have that in-between game. They can shoot the jumper. They can put it on the floor. They can do little things to help your team win. They get better and better. A lot of times, just being an athlete alone just doesn’t get it done.”
Wilkins was referring to the NBA, where he is a Hawks executive these days. He wasn’t referring to colleges, high schools and youth leagues around the United States, where you actually can “get it done” in hoops by just being an athlete. Such an emphasis on talent combined with flash has contributed to American players spending their youth listening to opportunistic AAU coaches. That’s opposed to the dwindling few stressing the Larry Brown philosophy of playing The Right Way.
We needn’t go further than this year’s version of the And 1 Mixtape Tour. On the And 1 Web site, it boldly states, “This summer, we are returning to the streets to put on the greatest display of creativity ever to hit the blacktop.”
Translated: This tour is nothing more than glorified street ball.
Speaking of which, you also have those highly popular And 1 Streetball video games. They are available everywhere to teach American youngsters how to play The Wrong Way.
Conversely, international players are groomed to become fundamental machines as preteens, and they often evolve into professionals in their countries soon after reaching puberty. So, if you’re a personnel guy for an NBA team, and if you’re more interested in winning than looking pretty, you do the following: You drive past all of those folks yakking and spinning in the air for circus dunks on the playgrounds, you hop on a plane, you fly across the oceans, and then you come back with a Yao Ming or a Manu Ginobili.
No wonder these numbers are ridiculously staggering: Twenty years ago, when Wilkins was with the Hawks in a league that featured a slew of fundamentally sound American players, ranging from Michael Jordan to Larry Bird to Magic Johnson, there were only 14 international players on opening day rosters.
There were 84 this season. In fact, when the playoffs begin today, there will be 59 international players on the collective rosters, an increase of 34 percent from just last year’s playoffs.
“You see those statistics, but at the same time, as long as this league has been around, you have to realize that it always goes through these adjustment periods,” Wilkins said. “You’ve got to be able to adapt as players coming up. [American] guys like Joe Johnson, like Kobe Bryant, like Dwyane Wade, like LeBron James. All of these guys have made adjustments to today’s game, and that’s why they’re so much better than everybody else.”
Well, not better than Dirk Nowitzki, the likely NBA most valuable player this season, and he is from Wurzburg.
That’s Germany, not Iowa.
Permalink | Comments (36) | Post your comment | Categories: Hawks / NBA, Terence Moore
Comments
By Max Sizemore
April 20, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this
Well said, Terence. You might have added that the last World Championships proved that the NBA, even with the world’s best players, is a minor league.
By Josh
April 20, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this
Great points, Mr. Moore! I can’t wait until American basketball gets back to the basics. I was born in 1983, and I remember watching the end of the Magic-Bird era and the beginning of the Jordan era. Today’s basketball isn’t even close.
By d
April 20, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this
any reason why so the hawks have drafted so many foreign players, and yet there’s only, what, one on the team? (not counting Pachulia, who was drafted by another team). whatever happened to that guard from Turkey…..Cenk Akyol?
By coach
April 20, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this
Finally, somebody in the media has the guts and basketball IQ to say what high school bb coaches have been telling folks for years. The major D-1 coaches do not have the b*lls to say this because they have to kiss the AAU coaches’ booties. There is a reason why you see many of the best high school coaches hanging it up. They are fed up with people who are ignorant about “how to play the game” being the people with influence with kids like Josh Smith. I hope the foreigners take 75% of the slots in the NBA. Maybe then kids will listen to people who know how to teach them to be better basketball players who make their TEAM better. The AAU guys will lose their influence if their guys are playing in NBDL. Thanks Mr. Moore.
By Me
April 20, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this
I haven’t really followed basketball since the Bird-Magic days. I don’t even recognize the game that’s being played now.
By Paul
April 20, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this
Thats why the letters NBA have a different meaning to some.
By Najeh Davenpoop
April 21, 2007 12:24 AM | Link to this
There is some truth to your article, Terence, but not much. Yeah, the AAU system is hurting the development of today’s young players. Maybe today’s Americans are not as fundamentally sound on average as the Americans of 20 years ago. But don’t try to tell me that international players are any better.
You can point to Dirk Nowitzki, Yao Ming, and Manu Ginobili as examples of elite international players with solid fundamentals, and that’s fine. But I can point to Andris Biedrins, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Samuel Dalembert, etc. and make an equally convincing argument that many foreigners are not fundamentally sound. Biedrins is one of the worst free throw shooters in the league. Tskitishvili didn’t have a clue what he was doing on the basketball court and is now out of the league. Dalembert can’t score in the post to save his life. It’s not like those guys are undrafted free agents — all of them were first-rounders, and two were lottery picks. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg — I could go on mentioning players like Igor Rakocevic, Darko Milicic, etc. who were all stars or highly touted prospects overseas but can’t get off the bench in the NBA.
The funny thing is, you mention names like Sarunas, Fabricio, Radoslav, Vladimir, Eduardo and Zarko — and yet, Sarunas Jasikevicius is an NBA bench-warmer, Zarko Cabarkapa is out of the league, Radoslav Nesterovic has only once averaged over 8 points per game, Vladimir Radmanovic is a one-dimensional three-point shooter who can’t play defense to save his life, and Fabricio Oberto and Eduardo Najera are the proverbial energy guys — the guys who hustle and get rebounds but don’t do a whole lot else. Front court energy guys like Oberto, Najera, and Anderson Varejao are valuable, but they are also really easy to find even on this side of the pond. Even Billy Knight, in all his ineptitude, has managed to find a guy like Solomon Jones who will hustle on the defensive end. It doesn’t take great coaching or fundamentals to hustle and go after every rebound. Tyson Chandler, Ben Wallace, Etan Thomas, Nazr Mohammed, Udonis Haslem, Reggie Evans, etc. do that just as well as any international player.
The argument people most commonly use when trying to point out the superior fundamentals of foreign players is the recent lack of success the Americans have had in international competition. What they fail to mention, however, is that while international players play under FIBA rules with FIBA referees regularly, American players never see those rules or refs in the NBA. The international game allows for much less physical contact, doesn’t allow for as much isolation due to the more liberal zone defense rules, and radically changes the way post players play the game because of the trapezoidal lane. Foreign teams get to practice with each other using these rules for years at a time, while Americans get a few months to get used to FIBA rules and their Team USA teammates, if they are lucky. Tim Duncan, perhaps the most fundamentally sound player in the NBA, furiously indicated after the ‘04 Summer Olympics that he’d never again play in a FIBA rules game because of the differences in the rules and officiating. I haven’t even yet pointed out that many of the best American players don’t even play in international competition, whether it’s because they don’t want to risk injury, or they are getting married, or whatever. Do you really think Team Argentina or Team Croatia would beat a team of America’s best players under NBA rules? Show me the foreign team which is going to guard Kobe on the perimeter or is going to box out Dwight Howard in an NBA-rules basketball game. Until the NBA, NCAA, AAU, etc. adopt FIBA rules, and American players grow up learning those rules and that style of play, it’s foolish to look at Americans’ performance in international competition as an accurate barometer of their ability.
The myth that foreign players are fundamentally superior to Americans is often repeated, but looking at the players around the league, it’s pretty clear that American NBA players are on average just as fundamentally sound as foreigners. For every Nowitzki, Gasol, and Yao exhibiting great post fundamentals, there’s a Garnett, Brand and Duncan who is just as fundamentally sound if not more so. For every unselfish Nash or Ginobili who can score and pass in the backcourt, there’s a Kidd or Joe Johnson who can score and pass just as well. For every Bargnani who can score inside or out, there’s a Carmelo Anthony who scores from anywhere on the floor as well. There’s a Shaq, an Alonzo Mourning, and a Greg Oden to match up with every foreign Yao or Zydrunas Ilgauskas. And considering the mixed success that foreign players have experienced in the NBA, it’s pretty telling that NBA rejects like Maceo Baston, Lenny Cooke and Trajan Langdon have regularly excelled in the Euroleague, the Chinese League, and other major basketball leagues around the world.
Also, if you look at the last few NBA champions, it’s not like foreign players were exactly dominating. The Miami Heat had zero foreign players on their championship team. The Detroit Pistons of 2004 had two foreign players, and one of them (Darko) never got off the bench. Throughout the Lakers’ dynasty, the only foreigner who contributed at all was Slava Medvedenko. Even the Spurs, who are frequently cited as one of the most international teams in the league, only had 4 international players in their ‘05 title year, and their best player was an American.
It’s safe to assume that nearly all of the world’s best players try to make it in the NBA, since the NBA offers more money than any other league. Considering that the vast majority of the NBA’s elite players are American, it follows that Americans still comprise the majority of the world’s best basketball players. The bottom line is, while American players may not be as good as their predecessors from the ’80s, they are still the best players in the world. Unfortunately, people will continue to eat up articles like this playing up the myth of the fundamentally sound international player, because it feeds into the false stereotype of NBA players perpetuated by the media as selfish, mercenary thugs.
By Orlando Rivera
April 21, 2007 12:36 AM | Link to this
Perhaps it’s because most of the foreign players aren’t caught up in the hip hop generation the way Americans are. Face it, it does have a lot to do with the whole “make that money fast and look good doing it” mentality that gets on the sportscenter highlights which attracts those D1 & AAU players. Call me racist if you want but it’s true. Foreign players come to this league with a discipline and not a lot of hype.
Don’t believe me, just look at the two most dominant post players in the game today, Tim Duncan & Yao Ming. They scream discipline while others here in the states refuse to ever grow up. It’s so few and far between the number of American born stars that lack that “I’m bigger than the game” idea.
Best four players in the game right now: Duncan (Virgin Islands) Dirk (Germany) Steve Nash (Germany) Yao (China). Some may say Lebron, but he can’t shoot a free throw worth a lick down the stretch and even admitted he’d rather be an “international icon”, there’s a real committment to winning. Kobe is still all about himself, game 7 against Phoenix last year proved that point. Wade is too turnover prone and relies on the referees to bail him out every time he takes to the hoop. Go read some of Charley Rosen’s articles on foxsports. com and it backs up everything.
That being said, the Hawks need to realize outside of Oden there is no one who is coming out of this draft that will help this team right away (Conley is a shoot first pg, Noah is a character and not a player, and Hibbert won’t be around when it’s their turn to pick). So they need to go in the foreign ranks to obtain the much needed pg that will help this team.
Back to the hip hop highlight mentality issue, it’s not often you see an international player get on the police blotter as much as these American players.
By Dumbing Down
April 21, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this
Team game! DISCIPLINE…DISCIPLINE… DISCIPLINE! What a concept. African Americans bettter start hitting the books instead of the courts. Another invasion is taking over the courts and the job prospect as a pro is diminished. No cry of foul on this issue!
By BravesFan
April 21, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this
Is this the prelude to the article complaining about the decline in the number of African-American players in the NBA?
By FRANKIE
April 21, 2007 9:13 AM | Link to this
Besides Tim duncan,what foriegn player has led his team to a championship? Not Nash,Dirk,or Yao Ming.For those who never played Basketball,it does take skill to dunk on someone.
By Roswell Ed
April 21, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this
What ever happened to the 15 foot jumper? I believe the 3 pointer has killed the game.
If they were playing in my back yard I’d shut the blinds.
By bad boy
April 21, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this
The Bad Boys era is gone the Pistons from the mid to late 80’s are gone..Now there was some good BB
By Roswell Ed
April 21, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this
Basketball started going down hill when they went from peach baskets to metal rims.
By Roswell Ed
April 21, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
What do call two mexicans playing basketball?
Juan on Juan
By Big John
April 21, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this
Could someone tell me how many 18 yr foreign players are in the NBA?We can talk about race all day long,but the bottom line is fundamentals.The NBA started going down hill when 18 and 19 yr. olds started going in the lottery.I would love to see the average age of rookies in the 4 major pro sports.
By Peter
April 21, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
Foreign born players aren’t coming from countries where “individualism” is a valued trait. It’s the opposite in America and I’m fine with that.
Does anyone think a WBC championship means that Argentina or Italy or wherever is playing basketball superior to that played in the U.S.?
When an Oden or Durant goes to play in Barcelona or Rome then we got a story. Take a Macdonald’s team, play them together for six, seven years then we’ll win more of the puffy titles.
Man the race issue never stops on these blogs. Funny how they all seem to post within the same time period.
By Hey Braves Fan
April 21, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this
You didn’t get the fundamentals in school? Look up what prelude means.
By NBA OWNERS WILL FIGHT THIS
April 21, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this
Here is why the owners will fight bringing more and more Europeans: labor issues.
The Jews that own the NBA know they can take advantage of ignorant Black kids, but not educated Europeans.
Also, in addition to the labor problems that would arise from more White players (as an example, look at the labor issues MLB and the NHL have had, with predominantly White athletes), America has been brainwashed into believing Blacks are “better athletes”, especially when it comes to basketball (and football).
By Samuel
April 21, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this
Terrance Moore,
I usually don’t veer off from the Real basketball blog on my Cuz’s(Sekou) Blog but I think all this Euro hype needs to be clarified.
First of all, the reason why there are more players now in the NBA than 20 years ago is purely due to the popularity of basketball world wide. The US has what 300 million people compared to 6 Billion Internationally. Of course you’re gonna have more. It’s percentages.
I haven’t looked it up but I would guess that there are also more American players playing Internationally compared to 20 years ago. So what’s your point.
People keep wanting to bad mouth AAU coaches and probably don’t know what the hell they are talking about. I guarantee that if you compare the AAU coaches to the middle school and high school coaches you will find them pretty much on par if not better.
Having been an AAU coach and now a high school coach I know for a fact that there are many highschool coaches who couldn’t coach their way out of a wet paper bag. Many are just filling in a vacancy and only qualify because they are qualified to teach not coach. Believe me. Many AAU coaches are sacraficing their time and money because they love the game.
AAU players are able to play tournaments all over the country and get exposure many of them would not otherwise get in Podunk Iowa.
Sure, team USA got beat but it had more to do with them not being the best players available(ie the original Dreamteam) Plus, they are not a team, just a collection of individual players.
I guarantee that you could take 10 or 12 NBA teams and dominate that tournament. I proposed (on the real baketball blog)that we take the NBA Finals runner up to the tournament. Even Dallas without Dirk would dominate that tournament.
By Hey Braves Fan
April 21, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this
Turns out it was me without the fundamentals _ in reading comprehension. I’m terribly sorry.
By Peter D
April 21, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this
I agree with Peter not only does he have a great name but he also has a great point. When the US goes into the WBC these guys may have trained for about a month together. Stop riding the foreigners jock.
The real issue is desire which you cannot coach. Good offseason practice for all American born NBA players would elevate the play in the NBA.
I believe many of the players don’t train hard enough to make themselves better.
That’s the real deal.
By Big John
April 21, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this
well said Peter,however “individualism” doesn’t mean me first.That is a problem today.Basketball is a team sport.Josh throwing his fit because he screwed up and didn’t get a chance to redeem himself is a perfect example.Iverson and his “it’s just practice” speech is another.I do miss the days of Jordan,Bird,Wilkens,and Johnson as much as everyone and they were all team first players even though they were the stars of their teams.Pippen,Drexler,McHale,Rivers,those players would not have been near as good without their stars,Pippen proved that.All were good players but the stars of there team made everyone better players,because none of them were “me first players” such as Kobe,Carmelo,and Carter.
By patrick t
April 21, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this
Orlando Rivera: Nash is Canadian not German. As for him and Duncan they can hardly be considered imports considering they both played college ball in the states.
By patrick t
April 21, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this
Orlando Rivera Steve Nash is Canadian not German. He and Duncan should not be considered imports in the same vein as Yao or Dirk. They both played college ball in the US. As far as those 4 being the best is ridiculous. They are the elite but you would be hard pressed to consider them any better than Kobe, Lebron, Wade and a slew of others. There is nothing wrong with the American players it is that the World players have finally gotten as good as Americans. The world has learned to love basketball. USA 300million vs rest of the world 6.something billion, of course more international players will start entering the NBA.
By The Flash
April 21, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this
IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT FUNDAMENTALS. IT IS ABOUT CONCEPTS. IT IS ABOUT SOCCER.
Yeap, your eyes heard me right, soccer. Soccer, while obviously played on a much larger field, comes down to combination play in realtively tight spaces; it is all about using ball movement to manipulate momentum and then exploiting it; quick one-two passing combinations, moving the ball away from the goal with purpose and skill is as important as a penetrating pass through the defense; the variations in tactics to force a defender to commit prematurely in one direction and then exploit it far surpass anything in conventional American basketball play save for the Princeton, and the soccer-style international games played by the Suns and Raptors.
So, the solution here does not lie in more drills, more shooting and passing and defense drills, and more high end AAU teams and special Nike camps that just provide more teahing at young men who have had their fill of it.
Youngsters need to be playing multi sports growing up, guys who love basketball and have a gift for it will love soccer as much, if not more, just ask Nash who plays semi pro in NY during the summers. They will not only enrich their lives, they will expand their minds.
The adults who control the game, and the kids who love it, have to get a life. Basketball experts and more emphasis on fundamentals just will not substitute for the opportunity of young athletes to enjoy learning and mastering other skills, that don’t involve their hands, but will oh so expand their brains. Vision on the court depends on what you are looking for. Soccer will expand and improve what our players see.
By SICEM
April 21, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this
The NBA has sucked for at least 15 years now and it is all because of the school yard mentality of most of the players. They are an embarrassment to the USA on the world stage! Bring on the rap, tattoos and cornrows! Go you gangsta rappa wanna be’s in basketball uniforms! You are so cool LOL!
By roan st
April 21, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this
Tim duncan is only an american by technicality if you want to be realistic. He grew up in the virgin islands which is considered american territory but he was exposed to an entirely different culture than true american born players. In fact Duncan was an elite swimmer as a teenager and only began playing basketball because a storm had destroyed the facilities in his home town. It’s almost lying to put tim duncan in the same categorie as other american players. The virgin islands ain’t the streets of New York even if we do claim the region.
By morris
April 21, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this
Guys like allen iverson and kobe bryant are the poster children for whats wrong with the NBA. I could care less about the nba nowadays but I was a huge fan in the eighties during the celtics and laker dynasties. Talk about some beautiful basketball those two teams were incredible to watch. We will never see that kind of basketball played again, especially between two great rivals. It’s all street ball and hip hop b****** now. I’m glad the international players are beginnig to take roster spots because it can only help the game.
By roan st
April 21, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this
I did some research and the NBA considers Tim Duncan a foreign born player. In fact I went thru every player in the league and didn’t realize just how many great foreign players there are in the NBA. Check out this team of foreigners-
First team
Yao ming -C Tim Duncan- PF dirk nowitski- SF manu ginobili- sg steve nash- pg
second team
Pau gasol- C andrea bargnani- PF AK 47- SF luol deng-SG tony parker- pg
You could put together just about any combination of great american players and they would have one hell of a time beating this team.
By frankie
April 21, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this
Besides Tim Duncan,has any of those foreign players led his team to a championship?Why do we live in the past?I’m 37 years old and I grew up in the 80’s era with Bird,magic,& Jordan,and I remember my dad saying the same things you guys are saying about the new players.He was saying those players were not good and that they could never be as good as the players he grew up with like Wilt,Bill russell,and Walt Frazier.Every generation thinks their generation was better than the new one. 20 years from now the kids today will be saying the same thing about Kobe,Iverson & Shaq.Get over it stop, living in the past!You guys talk about the hip-hop generation with cornrolls,But go back and look at Dr.J,Artis Gilmore,and Bill Walton with Afros and long hair and too little shorts they look silly also and it was frowned on by older people back then.
By roan st
April 21, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this
Has kevin garnett, allen iverson, gilbert arenas, carmelo anthony, or lebron james ever lead their respective teams to a championship? And the discussion isn’t about generation vs. generation it’s about foreign born players vs. american born. And it’s certainly not about a arfos and cornrows it’s about fundamentals and lack thereof.
By Jack P
April 21, 2007 9:07 PM | Link to this
The Bill Russell led Boston Celtics of the 1960s would wipe out todays NBA teams. They played BB the way it is supposed to be played, as a team.
By Najeh Davenpoop
April 21, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this
Tim Duncan has an American passport, an American birth certificate and played four years of NCAA basketball. Sure, maybe he didn’t grow up in the same culture as many other American ballers, but neither did Kobe Bryant. Just because a basketball player doesn’t grow up in the ghetto doesn’t mean he’s any less American. Should we consider Kobe an import as well, because his dad played ball in Italy through most of his childhood?
By Najeh Davenpoop
April 21, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this
Even if you don’t want to include Duncan as an American (which I think is preposterous) the United States’ best players are still superior.
All-American first team: PG Jason Kidd, SG Kobe Bryant, SF LeBron James, PF Kevin Garnett, C Shaquille O’Neal
All-American second team: PG Chauncey Billups, SG Dwyane Wade, SF Tracy McGrady, PF Shawn Marion, C Elton Brand
I’ll take on any team of international All-Stars with those teams any day of the week. Those all-American teams don’t even include NBA All-Stars like Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, Dwight Howard, Allen Iverson, and Carmelo Anthony (who together would still probably beat roan st’s all-international 2nd team).
By Peter
April 22, 2007 2:59 AM | Link to this
You know we CAN have one discussion without denigrating Americans or blowing it up into a racial discussion.
How many 19yr old Euro’s are coming over? A lot of our kids have to play a “hot dog” type game when they’re young just to get noticed. Guys start paying some of these players when they’re 11 or 12 years old.
They go to HS where they can dominate on talent alone. One year in college, where they know they’ll only spend a year at most and then to the NBA. So many of them have never really played a “team” game ever.
Pay guys to stay in college and learn the team game (as well as get a general education) and we’ll have better American players and better American citizens.
Oden and Kevin won’t make a big splash in the NBA (we’re gonna get one of those players!) next season but how can they afford NOT to come out?