AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2007 > April > 20 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USFootball a poor fit for Georgia State
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Mark Bradley
Georgia State has commissioned Dan Reeves to help decide whether or not the school should start a football program. It’s a nice concept, and retaining Reeves, who knows football and Atlanta, makes complete sense. And by rights a university that serves 26,000 students should be able to sustain the most expensive sport.
This, however, is Georgia State.
This is the school that drew a non-crowd of 362 to a men’s basketball game on Valentine’s Day. This is the school that just posted an average home attendance of 1,173 in what stands as its flagship sport. This is the school that would play football games in the Georgia Dome, which seats 71,250.
This is one tough sell.
Mary McElroy is Georgia State’s athletics director, and she’s smart and ambitious. She’s also pragmatic. As Reeves goes forward, she’s neither pushing nor pulling. “Painstakingly neutral,” is how McElroy describes her stance. “I’m not ashamed to say that. I would be fine with football; I would be fine without it.”
She believes there’s a “decent” chance the school will move to sponsor the sport. Certain moneyed alums like the idea very much, and Reeves told reporters the prospects look “very likely.” The earliest McElroy could imagine Georgia State playing an actual game would be in 2010. And how long after that might it be before Panthers football could be branded a success?
Georgia State is a commuter school in a big city based in a state that already boasts massive football programs. An examination of similar programs offers a best-case scenario, and also a worst.
South Florida, located in Tampa, played its first game in 1997; last season it averaged 30,222 fans at Raymond James Stadium and finished 9-4, beating West Virginia and winning a bowl game en route. Central Florida, situated in Orlando, played its first game in 1979; last season it averaged 31,569 fans at the Citrus Bowl. The Knights will christen a 45,000-seat stadium this fall — they’re coached by George O’Leary, who’s 12-24 at UCF and who has never met a construction project he didn’t embrace — and Texas will serve as the first visitor.
South Florida is doing quite well. Central Florida, which has graced one bowl in its existence, is hanging in there. UAB, which played its first game in 1991, still lacks traction. (It just hired the former Georgia assistant Neil Callaway as head coach.) The Blazers, who play at Legion Field, averaged 23,139 fans for home games last season. UAB hasn’t done terribly on the field — its 3-9 record in 2006 was its nadir — but the program remains an afterthought in a state consumed by the ongoing saga of Alabama against Auburn.
The same dynamic would apply here. Doesn’t everybody in this state, GSU students and alums included, already have a favorite football team? Could a new program compete with existing loyalty? (Yes, Georgia Southern carved out a niche, but the Eagles don’t share a major marketplace.) Said McElroy, who admits she roots for Navy, where she earned her degree, and Tech, where she worked: “It may be that those people chose Georgia or Georgia Tech because we haven’t had a football team.”
Maybe. But the notion that the Georgia State constituency, which didn’t fully embrace basketball even when Lefty Driesell was winning significant games, would be energized by a start-up Division I-AA program seems fairly fanciful. What if GSU is confronted by the indignity of playing home games before 65,000 empty Dome seats?
“If it starts and it doesn’t work, nothing says this will be here in perpetuity,” McElroy said. “If it’s going south, we drop it. … But you won’t know how many people will come if you don’t do it. And I know people will say, ‘How can you have football if you can’t get 4,000 fans to come to a basketball game?’ Part of the reason was the product.”
It should be noted that Georgia State isn’t the only local school casting an eye. Kennesaw State is, too. “We’d be the only program in Marietta,” said Stan Dysart, who’s the chairman of Kennesaw State’s football feasibility committee and who’s also (full disclosure) my orthopedist. “The disadvantage Georgia State has is that there’s already a big-time program downtown.”
That said, Dysart believes Georgia State should give it a go. And McElroy has been “surprised there’s not more negativity — I’ve heard from maybe 20 people who are against it. It doesn’t seem there’s a whole lot of resistance. … The recruiting base is here. The interest seems to be here. But commitment is a lot different than asking about somebody’s interest.”
It is. And every lead balloon — the Edsel, New Coke, the 2007 Phillies — looked spiffy on the drawing board. “I want to set us up for success,” McElroy said, “not failure.”
Good luck with that.
Permalink | Comments (30) | Post your comment | Categories: Mark Bradley
Comments
By Paul in J-ville
April 21, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this
TM, I had to admit this but your assessment is correct. Yes, good to give ol Danny boy something to do, but lets get real, Techies have a hard time supporting their team the way it should be supported and there is no way in Gods great Kingdom Atlanta could support another football team, especially from Ga State. What a waste of time and energy in a ploy to raise capital for the school.
This will obviously end up a huge flop and it doesn’t take special consulting from Ernst and Young to figure this out. Get their boy, Donald Ratacheck-check, from the business school economics dept and and let McElroy take a few Econ 101 refresher courses and then be evaluated by the school psychologist for suggesting such a dillusionary vision.
Terrance, what a waste of energy….but you happen to be correct this time.
By duff
April 21, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this
Typical Mark Bradley arrogance, predicting the fate of an entire program, before a feasibility study even starts. Excuse me, isn’t that why there is a feasibility study? As a former member of the Ga State club football team, I have seen firsthand the enthusiasm for football of the GSU student body and alumni. Also, Georgia State is committed to becoming less of a ‘commuter school’ which will help with fan attendance. Add to this a big-name coach, a big-time venue, and add a few local recruits that want to stay close to home, and I like their chances. But, as Ms McElroy rightly insists, do the study, weigh the results, and make an informed decision.
As opposed to Mr. Bradley, who takes a great, yet fledgling idea, and predicts that it will fail, just so he can stroke his own ego by saying ‘I told you so’ at some point down the road. What’s your next bold prediction Mark, that the Globetrotters are going to beat the Washington Generals?
By Paul in J-ville
April 21, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this
Oooops, Bradley I think I referred to you as Terrance,….my mistake….or was it? Sounds earily like TM
By Paul in J-ville
April 21, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this
Duff, you are just as dillusionary as McElroy. You obviously got a degree from Ga State so you can’t be that stupid….you just want something that will never ever happen but thinks it can. I hope you don’t have any entreprenuer endeavors on the horizon, you obviously do not have any business instincts. I have started 3 different businesses and yes did due dilligence on them but also didn’t get into something I didn’t belong in or have a good instinct with because those are just a few intangibles one needs. Bradley isn’t being arrogant, he’s just been around sports long enough to make an opinion whether it be correct or incorrect…..but he isn’t a dreamer either.
By ATLsportsfan
April 21, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this
Mark, you’re being a jerk. You and the rest of the AJC sports hacks should be excited about this. Who cares how many people attend the games. All you should be thinking is “YES, one more ATL team to write about, I might be able to keep my job a little longer,” especially seeing how the AJC is cutting back on print copies and staff. More teams = more news. Look at the bigger picture dork boy.
Yes GA boasts massive football programs, but two of those are Division 1-A. Now I will actually have a chance to be a fan of a Division 1-AA. I anticipate the rivalry between Valdosta and GA State to be almost on par with GA and GA tech. And could you imagine how crazy this town would be if the Dawgs, Yellow Jackets, AND Panthers make it to bowl games.
I don’t understand how you can base your opinion of a football program on the fact that GA State basketball has a low fan attendance. The Hawks have low attendance but the Falcons sell out every game. Maybe Atlanta sports fans just really don’t like basketball. And how does the win loss record of Florida 1-AA teams relate to potential success of a GA State team?
Seriously, Mark after reading this article and the one a week ago by T Moore about no black players in baseball makes me wonder if the AJC isn’t letting its writers out of their office to experience the world they live in. Open your minds a little.
By prosports
April 21, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this
I am an alumnus of GSU. I haved envied the camraderie that I witness when I am invited to a UGA football party and realize that most of my friends went to UGA. Football provides a link back to the school. Basketball under Lefty gave us a little taste, but I and many others dont like watching basketball as much as football. I would go to some games, whereas I wont go to see basketball. Where do we buy Georgia State Football shirts?
PS I also remember some of my high school classmates flunking out of UGA and then coming to GSU. They thought it would be a piece of cake… They flunked out of GSU also!
Lets get this rivalry going!
By The Tony
April 21, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this
My only interest in college football is if Georgia State has its own team. I loved that school, I loved watching Lefty lead his teams in circles in the old TAAC/A-Sun, and I would love to see a Georgia State football team — even as it struggles — gain traction. The misconception is that everyone already has a favorite team. But with all the current and former Georgia State students out there, and for everyone else in Atlanta who loves an underdog (Thrashers? And Hawks still draw attendence, no?), Georgia State football will earn its place among the city’s athletic elitists, such as Mr. Bradly.
By Claude
April 21, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this
Calling Georgia State a commuter school is not really accurate anymore. They have built and continue to build student housing and are becoming more like a traditional university. It may still be soon for football at GSU, but it will happen eventually.
By Eric
April 21, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
I disagree that football would not work at Ga. State, 26,000 students and growing, thousands of alumni in the area, it should work. I however to agree that it would be a mistake to play games at the Ga. Dome at the Div 1-AA level. The first few years they should play at a smaller stadium, somewhere near the school, but not necessarily downtown and then when the program takes off and gains support, move to the Dome or build a mid-sized stadium near downtown, if possible.
By Lee
April 21, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
Who’s the saleman that sold GSU on this idea? I need to hire him to help sell my house.
Where are you gonna practice? As you know, there is sooo much green space available around downtown.
You going to rent the dome and then pack about 15,000 people in it? Like the first poster said, a little Econ 101 refresher course is in order.
West Georgia started up a football program about 25 years ago. They are just now to the point where they are raising money to build their own stadium. Point is, building a program from scratch isn’t as easy as it sounds.
If you can’t make the numbers work for the dome, that means you will probably have to use a local high school stadium. Good luck with that venue.
The only other stadium around is Grant Field. Personally, I don’t see them wanting to get their field tore up by doing “double duty.”
No, for once in a blue moon, I too agree with Bradley.
By Mike
April 21, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this
Why would we want to see Georgia State become the Temple of the south?? Temple has 34,000 students, so student population means nothing.They have a downtown campus, and a high proportion of commuter students (sound familiar?) They do not have their own stadium, so they played in places like Veterans’ Stadium (where the Eagles played). Sound even more familiar?
If Georgia State starts out where they will belong, they will playing the likes of Emory & Henry. How any fans will come for that? Put them in Div I-AA and they’ll go 0-11. How many fans will come out for that?
I would not object if this were all privately funded. But it would be very wrong to spend taxpayer dollars on this idea.
By GaSouthAlum
April 21, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this
If you guys want to have a rivalry with Division II Valdosta, then go ahead. The real rivalry (if Georgia State gets a football team) will be when they come down to the REAL GSU in Statesboro and take on the Eagles.
By JustMe
April 21, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this
A major problem for GSU is always the location. Being in the very heart of downtown has major disadvantages. Even if GSU plays in the falcons home, who would fight the traffic, pay for parking, etc. to watch a 1-AA team?
IMHO, Kennesaw State has a better chance for success in football.
If I were GSU, I would stick to making a mark in basketball. It is a cheaper sport and they already have a court.
By Buck Cochran in the NW
April 21, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this
Even sitting out here in Seattle, it doesn’t take a mental giant to know that Ga. St. having a FB team would jump right up there in the top 5 of dumb decisions made in this decade. I know Atlanta and live in downtown Seattle with Seahawk stadium about a mile away. I killed to many trees even posting a comment about this subject. Take your basketball team and show that you can win in a major sport. Ga. St.-FB? Not!
By Will
April 21, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this
The lack of comments on the topic is an example of how difficult achieving success would be for GSU. Does anybody really GAS either way? Not many. Kennesaw State should move forward. The school has already shown there are enough local athletes to compete on the national level in baseball as evidenced by their NAIA World Series title in the 90’s. I think many players would choose playing near Atlanta over gnat and mosquito infested Statesboro. The GSU cheerleaders have to wear screen filters over their faces so they don’t gain too much weight from unhaling gnats and mosquitos on the sideline.
By Panther Grad
April 21, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this
G State football garnering enough interest to get an article from the “full of incite” MB is remarkable as it is. I would love to see G State give it a go. Flop or no flop…go for it. Early rumor mill says Bill Cowher very interested in the job.
By GSU-Lee
April 21, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this
LEE Hello, my name is Lee Wilson and I am a student at Georgia State University, and I am also the Sports Editor of the campus newspaper. We just ran a story about the prospect of a team and Here are the answers to your questions:
Where are you gonna practice? As you know, there is sooo much green space available around downtown. -They would BUILD a practice facility. From talking to McElroy herself, I learned that this is not a major concern, they have to raise the money, that IS the major concern. I was given all indications that once they had the money, that a practice facility would not be a problem. You going to rent the dome and then pack about 15,000 people in it? Like the first poster said, a little Econ 101 refresher course is in order. -Firts off, don’t insult McElroy. She is a clasy lady and very friendly at that. She probably has more smarts in her poinky than you do in your entire body.Second of all, I believe that the dome would only open the closer sections of the stadium so that the fans are all close. It’s not like we are the only school to get this idea, other schools have rented out bigger stadiums than they need. West Georgia started up a football program about 25 years ago. They are just now to the point where they are raising money to build their own stadium. Point is, building a program from scratch isn’t as easy as it sounds. -We have more money, more people, better people in charge and smarter pepople than West Georgia. Our money would come from private funding. If you can’t make the numbers work for the dome, that means you will probably have to use a local high school stadium. Good luck with that venue. -This idea was never discussed by the steering committee in charge of the discussions. It is all or nothing with the dome. The only other stadium around is Grant Field. Personally, I don’t see them wanting to get their field tore up by doing “double duty.” -Again, this is a wild assumption made by someone unfamiliar with the situation (you). The dome is the cheapest and closest alternative. -I am not saying that this is the best idea ever, but I know that attending GSU would be much more appealing and the student body is itching for a team. We have had a club team in years past, so the interest is there. And I will personally give everyone on this blog 20 bucks if we went 0-11 in our first year, which would be roughly 3-4 years from now if they greenlight it.
By GSU-Lee
April 21, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this
Panther Grad, I wish
By ARRRR
April 21, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this
Boy, that’s all Atlanta needs is another mediocre football program downtown.
By deanna
April 21, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this
ok this is coming from a huge dawgs fan…
lets face it along with uga’s great academic program they have an awesome football program that attracts a lot of students to apply and enroll.
Football is america’s #1 sport..i guess baseball fans can disagree but I watch more football than i do basketball and baseball. in general more poeple watch and attend more ncaa football than basketball…aside from march madness.
I for one hate basketball…and if ga state had a better basketball team I might go if it was worth watching. if ga state got a fooball team of course the first few years would be a little rough…but that come with any college or highschool team just starting out…duh!
if you didnt guess by now I do go to ga state…and I know what its like to be a student there. I for one will support this team and I know from talking to several fellow students that they want a team too…so if thats what we want then let it go.
like GSUlee said we may not sell all 72,000 seats in the dome but I hope that we would get a decent showing from students, faculty, alumni and fans who want to support us and enjoy watching football.
gsu panthers will never take over the place the dawgs have in my heart but I would definately go to the games, and support my school.
I SUPPORT THE GSU FOOTBALL IDEA!!!!!
also the guy who posted about having nowhere to park and practice well heres the you buddy. cause you seem to know atlanta SO WELL>>>
ga state is literally 3 blocks away..it takes 5 to 15 minutes to walk to the ga dome!
and we currenltly have a 5 feild game a practice facility called pantherville located off of HW 20…next to ga perimeter’s campus….”greenspace” would not be the issue.
oh and another thing..ga state is quickly becoming less and less of a commuter school…we are to open up more on campus housing next fall…with more to came after that.
having this team will help attract more students to enroll.
By ZGOLDATOWN
April 21, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this
I spent two years of college at Georgia State and would finish my masters there if they started a football program. What people are forgetting is that georgia St has an expansion plan to boost enrollment to 55,00 by 2015. Also it will be mandatory for freshman to live on campus starting in 2008. If MB wants to write an article on this, than at least mention that student support is sure to go up with students actually living on campus. The only thing missing from Ga St was a football team and a decent Basketball team. even with a team that won 7 games a year ago, we still put over a thousand fans in the seats every game. If football comes so will the fans and money, who cares if it takes a long time. I cant wait to be in the dome for Ga States first game. Lets get this Ga St vs UGA rivalry goin on. ATL vs Athens, Its A-Town pimpin. And believe me there is a strong anti-Uga sentiment at State. people at state know that they are at a better school (in several rankings)in a better city, but just dont get any love. I am a proud member of the group at Ga St- “Georgia natives against UGA). Ga Panthers
By ZGOLDATOWN
April 21, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this
*Go Panthers
By Czar
April 21, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this
Jeez, it’s a good thing for blind, unambitious, smartass, sniping naysayers that a career in sports journalism is possible. I look forward to GSU football and I am certain that Bradley is not qualified to comment on GSU and the future of CAA football. Go Panthers!
By UWG
April 21, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this
Lee,
I think its great that you have smarter “pepole” than West Georgia….and you’re the editor. Please note that the only thing you have ever done in sports is hire Lefty.
By thathouguy
April 21, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this
I am an alumnus of GSU. What I don’t understand is why the negative speculation?
Comparing us to schools in other states does not make a weighty argument in my opinion. Neither does speculation and snarky comments from the amen corner. I would remind Bradley and others that there were similar sentiments against starting GSU(and campus expansion, and the building dorms) and look how the school has thrived; that to me, is a strong indicator that a football program will also succeed.
I think the addition of a football team will do nothing but enhance the school’s profile across the board. With better name recognition comes more interest from a wider range of students and athletes. More students, more successful athletic programs leads to more money. More money leads to…well you get the idea, success breeds success.
There is a deep and largely untapped alumni community that will step up.I certainly would give money to the school and I know plenty of others who are ready to do the same. I also think that a strong athletics program at GSU fits in with the ongoing quest to enhance the downtown area.
With the talent base in the state and in the metro area, I don’t think it will be an impossible task to build a program. In fact, as the program grows, I would bet that a large portion of athletes that now choose to stay in state might find that Georgia State offers more culturally than the other “big time programs”. We’ve already demonstrated with Lefty that the right coach can win at GSU.
I can imagine a smart coach telling a prospect to go visit Athens and look around, and then come to Atlanta and do the same at GSU. Then that coach will ask “now where do you think you are going to fit in better and have more fun?” I think we know which area holds the most attraction for a variety of reasons.
That Bradley saw nothing that could provide a basis for a program tells me that this column isn’t a serious look at what we’re trying to do at GSU. Dr. Patton has proven time and again that he knows what he is doing, and Dan Reeves is a smart football man and would not have agreed to do this if it was a huge longshot. He already knows that it’s feasible, he’s here to build a timeline.
Get use to it folks, there will be a football program at Georgia State.
By Lee
April 21, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this
UWG, the smarter PEOPLE I was referring to are the people in charge of handling the team.Oh, and ROD BARNES, DAN REEVES,FOOTBALL… All of the improvements have come since we got Mary McElroy from GT. She has brought us a bunch of new coaches with top results. Our baseball, tennis (I realize one cares about tennis), Women’s basketball, have all pulled a 180 this year, and Rod Barnes WILL make an impact at GSU. I did not mean to offend anyone at West Georgia, I honestly apologize if I did. And I promise that Rod Barnes will exceed whatever Lefty had here, he only got us to the second round one time, That really isn’t that impressive. i am really critical of the university for not doing more, and now they finally are. That’s all I was trying to say.
By Me
April 21, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this
Tell me again how college athletics is for the benefit of “student athletes”. This is nothing more than a University trying to get on the gravy train and make money.
By deanna
April 21, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this
thank you to the last like 3 people! like I said before.. is if we, the students, facilty, alumni and GSU supporters want to have a football team THEN WE WILL HAVE A FRIGGIN FOOTBALL TEAM! all you naysayers who dont know what your talking about makes me more supportive of my school and my “WILL BE” team than I thought I ever would be. so to all you positive people…the only ones whos opinion matters because of your ties to GSU thank you! we will have a football team and our university will improve becasue of it…only good will come out of this!
By Paul in J-ville
April 21, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this
Deanna, get a clue. Dream on all you want, they will lose millions trying to get it off the ground. This coming from a “business school”, give me a break. Not a nay sayer…just a realist who understands business and needs versus dreamers and fiscally stupid. Yea, for all of you fanatics, it sounds sooooo sexy for a school who can’t boast virtually anything athletically except reminding us of an old buffoon like “Lefty” way back when. It won’t work because its just a bad idea from someone (McElroy) at GSU trying to bring more income into the school thinking it would. What a joke!
By thunderchunk
April 21, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this
I am a GSU alum who is a fan of another team, being a lifelong GT fan and a season ticket holder for the last several years. I would not miss a GT game for one at GSU, but would still consider coming to a couple of Panther games a season.
I think football at GSU is a good idea in a vacuum, but I have two concerns: 1) Will football be supported by people outside the GSU community? And how well will it be supported by the GSU community? I think the basketball program is a viable parallel here. For a school that is becoming more traditional (as opposed to commuter), basketball games are still not well-attended. I think the hiring of Rod Barnes is an EXCELLENT one, but in my time at the school I never attended a game and did not know anyone else who had. Football will draw several thousand fans, but how many? And if the program is unsuccessful for the first several years, will the support still be there?
2) How does the student body feel about the athletics fee increase? The initial feasibility report suggested that GSU nearly double the student athletics fee from $142 a semester to $242 a semester. This would give GSU the highest student athletics fee in the state by far. By comparison, Georgia Southern charges students a $132 athletics fee each semester, UGA charges $53 a semester, and Georgia Tech charges $60 a semester. Would a majority of Georgia State students be willing to pony up this additional money to support the football program? If I were a student there and this was instituted, I wouldn’t be pleased about paying $200 extra a year, especially if I didn’t follow the athletics programs. That’s my two cents.