AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2007 > February > 08 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USHampton has to make it back
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Terence Moore
Every chance that Mike Hampton has gotten during the past 18 months, he has made a point to chat with the miracle that he wants to be.
More specifically, it’s the miracle that Hampton has to be.
Anything less for the accomplished left-handed pitcher recovering from elbow surgery, and the Braves will go from having a splendid chance to win their division for a 15th time in 16 seasons to just another team in the National League East with more question marks than exclamation points in its starting rotation.
So Hampton regularly chats with that miracle named John Smoltz, owner of a slew of victories, a slew of saves and a slew of dramatic comebacks from injuries. “The biggest advice that I’ve given Mike — and it isn’t what anybody wants to hear — and it’s time,” Smoltz said on Thursday at Turner Field during the Braves’ minicamp for pitchers. “People are really messing up by thinking that he’s just going to step in and give us what has been needed, but it’s not going to be that easy.”
No, it won’t be. There is Hampton’s football mentality. He had a chance to prosper at defensive back at Florida State, Florida and Rutgers before choosing baseball.
“He’s tough, and that’s one reason why we need to keep an eye on him, I think,” said Braves manager Bobby Cox, who nevertheless praised Hampton for “so far following the program 100 percent” during his rehabilitation.
That said, spring training begins next week in Orlando, and Cox wants to push Hampton along slowly. He wants his pitcher fit enough to throw maybe five or six innings at the start of the regular season. “But then you get itchy to get going,” Cox said of Hampton, “and that’s when you really have to slow down a little bit. I’m not trying to be overly optimistic, because the fact is that he did go under the knife, and I’ve got my fingers crossed.”
The same was true of Cox regarding Smoltz. Even so, Smoltz went from missing all of the 2000 season for Tommy John surgery on his throwing elbow to becoming one of the most dominant closers ever to returning as a prolific starter headed for the Hall of Fame. Hampton glanced toward Smoltz’s locker before saying, “As much as he’s been through with his elbow, he’s probably the one guy who proves that, if he can do it, anybody can do it.”
Well, Hampton has to do it. He has to return from his Tommy John surgery that came after five trips to the disabled list in 2005. He has to be healthy enough to complete a potentially solid rotation of Smoltz, Tim Hudson, Chuck James and likely Kyle Davies.
Hampton has to do it, because those others have issues, too. Smoltz finished last season tied for the most victories (16) in the NL, but he is three months shy of 40. Hudson has spent his two years with the Braves as the antithesis of the ace who won 15 or more games for four consecutive seasons in Oakland. James was a prolific freshman, but that doesn’t mean he’ll become a prolific sophomore. Although Davies is another talented youngster, he missed most of last year with a groin injury.
A creaky Hampton would just exacerbate the situation. “Having him back would be huge, ” said Hudson, his sentiments echoed by Cox, who added, “He really could get us over the hump. He’s that important.” Said Smoltz, “Man, I hope he does make it, but history shows that he will have his struggles, and we’ll be counting a lot on him. Which is not a good formula. Whoever can take the pressure off him and let him do what he needs to do would be great.”
This would be better: A healthy and an effective Hampton taking the pressure off everybody else.
Permalink | Comments (67) | Post your comment | Categories: Braves / MLB, Terence Moore
Comments
By Mike
February 8, 2007 07:27 PM | Link to this
Wow, this is the first time I’ve gotten to post the first response, its pretty cool. Another terrific article, and a very honest one. Everyone knows that Mike Hampton is a great athlete but he cannot be expected to be cy young type of pitcher, at least not at the beginning. John Smoltz said it best, he’s going to struggle at the beginning so someone needs to pick him up. Everyone knows what we are going to get out of Smoltz, thats 15 plus wins, 200 plus innings 3.40 or less era, and near 200 hundred strikeouts. In order for Hampton to have a good season, which I think I will, someone else in the rotation is going to have to overperform until Hampton’s endurance and comfort is back. Maybe Hudson will be the pitcher that he was with oakland or maybe davies will finally show what hes capable of. Im excited for the season, i do think it will be a 95 w season
By bobbymahlon
February 8, 2007 07:52 PM | Link to this
With the bullpen we now have the mentality of the starters should be to pitch six great innings and they will pick up a win. In other words 75 quality pitches should do it. So as I look at it we could have as many as three 20 game winners. Sounds great doesn’t it. I think it could happen as long as the injury bug doesn’t hit us. I’ll bet Smoltz,Hampton,James and Hudson are looking forward to this season, I know Iam.
By Gil
February 8, 2007 08:21 PM | Link to this
If the moon and the stars and the planets all allign as they should Hampton will have the opportunity to come back and do great things this year.
At least the Braves should have some bullpen depth to allow for those early season hicups.
If the Braves can just not get blown out in May or June like last year I think they will just fine once the rust is off.
But let us remember, the offense has to do their part too. You cannot expect your pitching staff to throw a shutout every night.
Mike Hampton is a great talent. I look forward to him being back this season.
By **billy g**
February 8, 2007 09:08 PM | Link to this
Please correct me if I am wrong. Is Mike Hampton the same guy that had one great season with the Mets, then signed an insane contract and has done little or nothing since then? Is that the same Hampton that you are talking about?
Mike Hampton is the most over-paid athlete in Atlanta. If the Braves’ success depends on Mike Hampton, it will be a very long season. If Hampton truly wants to help his team, he should return half of his money so that we can sign Andru to an extension.
By N8
February 8, 2007 09:29 PM | Link to this
*billy g*
Actually Hampton has had 4 of his 13 seasons with an ERA over 4.00.
1) His rookie year in 1993 with Seattle (17 IP)
2) & 3) were is ONLY two years pitching at Coors field.
4) His second season in Atlanta in 2004 he went 13-9 with a 4.28 ERA in 172 innings.
I think it’s safe to assume that if he goes 13-9 with a ERA in the low 4’s, we’d ALL be pretty darn happy.
Here’s a link to his career numbers:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hamptmi01.shtml
By N8
February 8, 2007 09:38 PM | Link to this
*billy g*
Forgot to add this, just to put it in perspective.
Hampton has a career record of 138-101 with an ERA of 3.97
If you take out the 2 years he pitched in Colorado he is 117-73 with a 3.57 ERA.
To put it in MORE perspective, Tim Hudson has a career record of 119-60 with an ERA of 3.53
I bet not to many people would’ve assumed that Mike Hampton (minus the Coors field numbers over 2 seasons), is about dead even with Tim Hudson.
Just thought I’d educate you for making such a silly statement as:
” Is Mike Hampton the same guy that had one great season with the Mets, then signed an insane contract and has done little or nothing since then?”
Besides, not to burst your bubble, but his BEST season was when he was still with Houston (the year before he joined the Mets).
Of course, I’m not saying coming off of major surgery that he’ll be a force right away this season, hell, it might take until next year. But I think his track record show, that when not pitching in Coors field, he has the ability and mental makeup to be AT THE VERY MINIMUM a good #3 starter if not a #2.
L8R
By Taylor
February 8, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this
Hampton is going to win 15 games.
By Najeh Davenpoop
February 8, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this
Good article. Either Hampton or Tim Hudson, hopefully both, have to step up and return to their All-Star form in order for the Braves to have a chance to win the division. The Braves simply cannot go into this season having to rely on Chuck James to be their #2 starter. The key players for the Braves this year are Hampton and Hudson in the rotation and Jeff Francoeur in the batting lineup. If Francoeur can realize most of his potential this year as a hitter to make up for losing LaRoche, and Hampton or Hudson can be a solid #2 starter, the Braves will be legitimate contenders in the NL East.
By Yars
February 8, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this
I can’t see why Hampton won’t have a good season. I enjoy watching Hampton pitch. He’s a gamer. I respect players that get emotional while on the field. Hampton has that desire & love for the game of baseball that some players lack. (JD Drew, Bonds, S. Green)The Braves have hustlers on their team now such as Hampton, Thorman, Langerhans, Smoltz, and I hope that Kelly Johnson will soon become part of that elite group of players that give 110%, whether their team is losing 11-0 in the 9th inning, or even when they are struggling, man you just can’t get enough of their hard nosed players. I think Smoltz will be dominant again, Hudson I pray pitches like he did when he was with the A’s. I can’t figure Hudson’s last 2 seasons out. He is better than that. I hope Chuck James is the real deal and ‘06 wasn’t some weird fluke. The Braves must think he has the potential to be a star since they didn’t trade him to Tampa Bay. They refused to part with him. I’m rooting for Kyle Davies. The 5th spot is his to lose. I want this Kelly Johnson experiment to work. Man, are they expecting a lot out of KJ? Starting 2B who will also bat leadoff. I hope he has a solid spring, but I think he would be more comfortable and hit for a higher average if put in the #8 spot in the order. I’d like to see what a healthy Langerhans could do in the leadoff spot. Maybe he will see some action hitting leadoff in spring training. If Chipper stays healthy and plays in atleast 140 games, if Francoeur can be more patient at the plate, if Thorman can give us decent numbers at 1B, if Bobby can finally settle on a regular LF, (Give Langerhans another chance. We have not see the real Langy yet. Don’t judge him on ‘06) & if whoever wins the 2B job puts up similar numbers to Marcus Giles 2006 put up, Nobody is expecting Kelly Johnson to hit .300 avg/20 HR/63 RBI/120 runs scored, 40 SB, gold glove defense. I think we will have a contending team. I am more worried about the Phillies than the Mets.
By Mike
February 8, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this
These Sportswriters for the AJC are a real joke. Always gloom and doom. The only thing worst than a career Politian is a career AJC Sports journalist. It doesn’t matter if it’s the Braves, Falcons or Hawks they never have anything good to say about the coaches are the players. No wonder the blogs are so negative. They use the AJC to take out their personal attacks on the coaches and the players. No wonder the fans have so much apathy towards the teams.
It’s amazing that as bad as the sport franchises have been in Atlanta, The Sportswriter for the AJC have been even worst. How can they dare demand so much perfection from the coaches and the players, when they themselves rank among the worst in your profession? But what do I know, I’m just a fan.
By Ralph
February 8, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this
The odds are that Mike Hampton or Chipper Jones will be out because for one reason or another before the end of the year are very good, and when they go out it won’t be for three or four games, it will most likely be for a month, as that’s their usual pattern on the disable list. The Braves players need, going into the 07 season a lot more of a positive attitude, self confidents and show a lot more hassle, and don’t give up when they are a couple of runs behind and try to score more than 3 or 4 runs a game. The most important thing is to try to remember that they were once a championship team and they can be just as good or better without depending on Chipper or Mike being reliable players all year long or any of the other so call big guns.
By Me
February 8, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this
TERENCE,
IF I’M GOING TO CRITICIZE YOU WHEN YOU WRITE RACIST CRAP, I HAVE TO GIVE CREDIT WHEN IT’S DUE. GOOD ARTICLE. GREAT POINTS. YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.**
By Brave Fan
February 8, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves will a great season if we can just get Bobby out of the game
By Armstrong
February 9, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this
Brave Fan
If you’re going to put a post about how you think the Braves are going to be fine if they lose Bobby Cox, then you must REFRAIN from using the name BRAVE FAN! I got an idea for you. Lets release Bobby Cox right now and make it 14 straight LOSING seasons! Won’t that be a great streak? Yes it would…as a matter of fact, let’s release Shuerholtz too! That way he can go to another team and rape US in trades. If it weren’t for Bobby Cox and Shuerholtz, those beautiful, admiring 14 pennants hanging up in Turner Field would be NON EXISTENT!! Not to mention we wouldn’t have half the stars we have now. If it weren’t for Shuerholtz, we wouldn’t have had the field crew that helped our middle infield defense dramatically in the early 90s. What good is a fielder without at least an adequate infield surface? If it weren’t for Shuerholtz, we wouldn’t have the SCOUTS that found talents such as Andruw Jones. Oh, and Shuerholtz also raped the Tigers for John Smoltz as a prospect. Remember? Guess why people such as Andruw has stayed in Atlanta for a discount. True, he may have wanted to stay in the same area he debuted in. But I guarentee that it was 99% Bobby Cox. Every player loves Bobby. You can’t blame disasters such as last season on Bobby Cox when you got a bullpen equivalent to a AA team. And you also can’t blame it on Shuerholtz when all he did was put as much talent in a team with a constricted payroll that was locked up to the stars you guys love? Smoltz…Chipper…Andruw… You think you can do a better job, then why don’t you tell me what you would do with the team? Would you trade for a star such as Baldelli, or something ridiculous??? A lot of you who bash Bobby and JS say that you would have made this trade. And then you come up with a ridiculous trade that only benifits the Braves. Im not meaning ANY offense to this post, but this stuff gets ridiculous. We can’t get away trading a team Cormier and Saltalammachia for Baldelli or whoever else. The other team has needs and wants too. And they’re also not going to take Davies, a possible bust, when their biggest weakness is starting pitching. And even if they could, only a guy like Shuerholtz could pull it off.
Look, if I offended anyone, Im sorry. That wasn’t my intent. But all I’m saying is there is a reason that these people get payed tons of money to do what they’re doing. I say, if we are true fans, we support thier decisions and actions, because I guarentee they are doing a better job than anyone on this blog could do. We are spoiled as fans from the last 14 seasons and expect perfection. Remember back in the day where almost every home game was sold out? That leads to more money for the team, more money for the owner, more money for payroll. If something less than perfection happens, we blame Bobby and Shuerholtz, the magicians of the aboslute magic this team has given us the last decade and a half. I say leave them be. Nobody is perfect.
Go Braves
By Head Coach
February 9, 2007 12:58 AM | Link to this
Bobby Cox will be the manager of the Braves until he decides to retire . So these wannabe fans like “brave fan” can stick a fork in it and stew for a while. I cannot agree more with you , Terence. Admittedly , my hopes for this team were sky high and the end of last season. Then , Horam was traded and the Braves made no effort to resign Thomson which has and will have a tricle down effect on the starting rotations depth. I read just about every online article I could find concerning tommy john surgery and the more I read the more apprehensive I became. It’s a grueling 18-24 month process of recovery and Hampton is 18 months removed from his surgery. I’m cautiously optimistic about the Braves at the moment. Smoltz , Hudson and James are money. But , anybody in baseball with a brain will tell you that a team needs a minimum of four quality starters. Smoltz , Hudson and James backed up by Wickman and Biaz went 34-33 last season. It just wasn’t enough pitching to compete. Davies has yet to live up to his talent and Hampton is a huge question mark. Other than Villarreal(career 3.53 ERA) , the Braves may not have a real viable option for another quality arm in the rotation. Hopefully , just one of these three pitchers will be productive and barring injury that will be enough to get the team through the season. The bullpen nailing down games from the fifth and sixth on will go along way toward helping the rotation get through the sorting out process of finding out just who will or will not be a part of the starting five. Go Braves !!!!!!!
By true braves fan
February 9, 2007 02:09 AM | Link to this
braves fan you have no idea what your talking about! Were lucky to have bobby cox as manager and our GM isnt 2 shabby either!! I think this team would be just fine without hampton, chipper is who we need to stay healthy! I like hampton as a regular season pitcher but dont consider him a big game pitcher…and if bobby cox ever uses him to start a deciding game in the playoffs again ill pull my hair out like i did the last time we made that mistake! Go Braves!! Id put $ on it that the braves at least get a wild card!
By bravesfanbob
February 9, 2007 03:56 AM | Link to this
Bobby Cox is the best overall manager in baseball, BAR NONE. Any idiot knows it takes a much better manager and team to win 14 staight division titles, (look how many wild card teams won the world series, and then the Cardinals win 83 games and win it). If the wild card teams were better, they’d show it over 162 games. Braves fan, you are simply not worth debating with when you make statements like that! If Peter Gammons says that Bobby Cox is the best manager in the last 50 years, I’ll take his word.
By choo choo
February 9, 2007 07:06 AM | Link to this
Baseball has so many variables and it’s hard to predict any of it. Who’s going to be injured, or have a career year? Who could have predicted McCann would have such a great season? Maybe Thorman or Davies will do the same this year. The Braves have a great chance to go to the World Series, but they could also finish third in their division, depending on all these variables. The great thing about this year is there are probably more potential variables than ever this year and that’s going to make this a real fun season. Look at what happened to the Detroit Tigers last season. I can guarantee, no one in Michigan saw that one coming. We’re going to spring training, and I can’t wait!
By SKC
February 9, 2007 07:25 AM | Link to this
Hampton is a smart pitcher. Hes also a gamer like Smoltz. If our pen is as good as it looks on paper, then Hampton can and should have the ability to pace himself for 5 to 6 at the start of the season. Let him come back slow and this year let the pen pick up the starters. I think all will work out in the end.
By Savannah Guy
February 9, 2007 08:32 AM | Link to this
Regardless
Ahh…the first sign of spring is when the Bravos pitchers get started and baseball is back in the news. How sweet it is. Seems to cut right through all the Hollywood gossip, the Michael Vick “bottled-watergate”, the “sky-falling” nonsense from negative fans and the global warming nonsense that consumes so much ink in the press.
Put another log on the fire, but know…baseball is just around the corner! Now that is warming.
By Matt
February 9, 2007 08:46 AM | Link to this
Hampton or no Hampton, the Braves will still have a better pitching staff, from top to bottom, than ANYONE in the NL East. It’s the drop off in offense and defense without Laroche that I feel is the biggest concern. The Braves wont have nearly as explosive an offense without him, the whole lineup dynamic changes. Anyone notice Shurholtz is talking up Thorman just like he talked up Reitsma last year? Wishful thinking. Also, I think the Braves will miss Giles more than anyone is letting on. Johnson and Thorman is a HUGE step down from Giles and Laroche, defensively, and that could lead to more runs scored by the opposition.
By billy g
February 9, 2007 08:51 AM | Link to this
N8. OK, you have stated facts. Now, look at Hampton’s contract. Tell me the truth, is he worth it?
Why is there no outrage at Hampton’s contract? Why are we spending so much money on a guy that, at best, will be a #2 or #3 rated starter?
We are going to see Andru Jones finish his HOF career in another city. Hampton’s contract is one big reason that is so.
I repeat. Mike Hampton is the most over paided athlete in Atlanta.
By Bull Pen
February 9, 2007 09:10 AM | Link to this
I sure hope Sherholtz has a contingency plan should Hampton not be able to make it back to 100%, or worse yet, reinjure his arm.
I would hate to think his plan is called, “Oh darn, looks like we don’t have Mike again this year!”
By Murphy Rules
February 9, 2007 09:36 AM | Link to this
Okay, I’m tired of all this optimism about Atlanta’s starting pitching. Get real, Smoltz is the only reliable pitcher we have. The Braves need to get YOUNG pitchers in there like the A’s do. Hampton is old and accident prone, Hudson hasn’t done anything since he came to Atlanta. When Leo left so did the pitching. They said everything would be great with Kolb as closer and we know how that turned out. The bullpen looks great on paper but who knows what’s going to happen this year. The biggest problem the Braves have is money and an OWNER. I wish someone like Arthur Blank could buy them and take us back to the glory year or 95!
By michaelmike
February 9, 2007 09:58 AM | Link to this
One thing to remember about Mike Hampton. He can hit. In 664 major league at bats, he has hit 15 home runs, 68 RBI. His lifetime batting average is .242. In 2001, Hampton hit seven home runs in 79 at bats. It took Ryan Langerhans 315 at bats to hit the same number last year. And that’s not a knock on Langerhans. Just trying to demonstrate how far above the curve Hampton is compared with other pitchers when he has a bat in his hand.
By eric the elder
February 9, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this
Referring to Smoltz, Hampton said, “If he can do it, anyone can.” I can’t believe he really meant that, but if he did, he is dead wrong.
Smoltz is a breed unto himself. Hampton might have all the traits that are attributed to him, but he is not John Smoltz. Few are. If Hampton makes it back, as we hope he will, it will have to be because of who he is, not who Smoltz is.
By KC
February 9, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
There’s all this talk about how desperately we need Mike Hampton to be sharp… but ya know, I really don’t think we need to get all that much out of Hampton through most of the season.
Why? Because the Braves will have the best bullpen in baseball and one of the top 3 or 4 offenses in the league. With that ability to put runs on the board and shut the other team down after 6 innings… it takes a lot of the pressure off of the starters.
If Hampton can average 6 innings and 3 earned runs per start through most of the season, that will be enough to win a fair number of ballgames… just as it was for a guy like Steve Trachsel last season. Opposing teams aren’t going to score very often from the 6th inning on, so if the starter holds them at 3 runs, we’re going to win more often than not as our offense will average much better than 3 runs per games.
6 innings per start would be a fairly easy innings work load, and at 3 earned runs per start… that comes out to a 4.50 ERA. Not too much to ask.
If he does that for most of the season, I think he’ll do fine. A sharp Mike Hampton will matter much more come September and October… so I’m just hoping he can get into a groove no later than August or September.
By N8
February 9, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this
billy g
You apparently have NEVER listened/read a word that JS has said reguarding Hampton’s salary. He’s been a Brave for 3 seasons now. He has two left, making a total (assuming he’s here for the duration of the contract) of 5 years in a Braves uniform.
The first 2 years of the contract, he was ESSENTIALLY free, due to the Marlins and Rockies paying most of his salary, just for us taking him off of their hands.
Year 3 was AGAIN essentially free, since he was on the DL for the whole year and insurance covered the majority of his contract.
In the final 2 years of this contract he will make 29 million dollars. If you take that money and divide by 5 TOTAL seasons, he has made an AVERAGE of about 5-7 million a season in a Braves uniform.
JS has said REPETEDLY that has calculated that average into the 80 million dollar “salary cap” given to him.
So answere this, Mr. “Hampton is overrated and overpaid”. How is averaging 5-7 million dollars a season for Mike Hampton (even with the injury), ANY worse than averaging 11 million per season for what Tim Hudson has done for us? Or for that matter, Chipper Jones?
If Andruw “finishes his career in another uniform”, it will be becase of Chipper’s or Hudson’s contract. Not Mike Hampton’s. I’m a firm believer, that by the end of this season, we will ALL be saying that Hampton is earning his money over Hudson.
But that is assuming that Andruw wants to stay, no matter what he says. I’ll assure you of this. If JS feels that the Braves are better off signing Andruw to a HUGE 7 year contract, rather than losing him, he will make a fair offer. Then make the neccesary “moves” to clear payroll if Andruw accepts. But I would bet that JS already knows what that offer is going to be, reguardless of who’s contract is a “burden”.
Or weren’t you paying attention to the Tom Glavine, Rafael Furcal, Jaret Wright, Kyle Farnsworth, Gary Sheffield, JD Drew contract negotiations the las few years? JS absolutely WILL NOT OVERPAY for anybody……even Andruw.
By Hirameagle
February 9, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this
Anyone heard what has happened to the plan to sell the Braves? It’s been about a year and I haven’t seen anything for a while. Just wondering if the sale is still planned and if there has been any activity in that direction.
By stamper
February 9, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this
Mike Hampton is so strong he once carried an Ox on his back for 263 miles, and THEN still had enough energy to go a solid 7 innings.
By KC
February 9, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this
N8, I believe in Hampton, don’t get me wrong… but I’m not so sure about this statement: “by the end of this season, we will ALL be saying that Hampton is earning his money over Hudson”
Many people here have long since sold all of their Tim Hudson stock. And I believe they did so prematurely. I’ve said it a million times, and I’ll make this case once more…
2006 was the first and only poor season of Tim Hudson’s stellar career.
Let’s remember people… during Hudson’s 2004 and 2005 seasons that were termed “disappointments” (and they were somewhat, but only by Tim Hudson standards), he was playing hurt. Do this real quick… look at his career “games started” numbers by season: http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individualstatsplayer.jsp?playerID=218596&statType=2 You will see evidence of what I’m talking about. His ribcage muscle problems were one of those things where you go the whole season trying to decide if taking another start or two off would do you any good, or if you should just pitch through it. That definitely affected him.
STILL The guy posted a very good ERA of about 3.50 both seasons, which ranked him in the top 15% of all MLB starters. I should also add that his 14 wins in 2004 would easily have been at least 17 or 18 with even so much as an average bullpen behind him.
His 2005 season was a disappointment only because so many (including Hudson himself) were expecting him to compete for a CY Young. But let’s put a 3.52 ERA in perspective. It’s almost identical to the ERA Smoltz was praised for last season, and is better than the 2006 ERA’s of Jason Schmidt, Barry Zito, Tom Glavine, Dontrelle Willis, and many other top-tier starters.
Posting that ERA while playing hurt is pretty damned admirable. Now 2006… not so much. There is no excuse for what happened last season. Will he turn it all around this season? Who knows? We’ll just have to wait and see. But folks… it’s just one season. Let’s not shoot a thoroughbred because he finished poorly in one race.
If a guy had sucked for 7 years, and then suddenly had one good season, we wouldn’t be ready to bet the farm on the guy! But when you flip that scenario upside down, you have Tim Hudson. One bad season vs. 7 years of excellence, and many people here want to run him out on a rail. Come on people… he’s only been down for a couple of seconds, and you’re ready to call a TKO.
N8, the average annual salary paid by the Braves to Mike Hampton is about 8 million (not including any savings from insurance last year). Hampton at 8 million vs. Hudson at 11 million… given that a re-acclimation period is likely for Hampton, I’m going to bet on Hudson being the more cost-effective player this season.
By billy g
February 9, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this
N8 You are certainly a Hampton appologist par excellence!
What I am talking about is his cost to the Braves NOW. Because of his contract, we may not be able to afford Andru Jones. Doesn’t it bother you that the Braves will lose a Hall of Famer because they have to pay an often-injured, over rated pitcher? Nevermind what a “deal” he was seasons ago. The Braves are dealing with his contract NOW.
How much will Hampton make this season? How much will he make next season? That is what matters. Oh, and BTW, just because the Braves didn’t pay much for him initially, it doesn’t mean that Hampton did not get his money. That is why I can say without any doubt:
Mike Hampton is the most over paid athlete in Atlanta
By billy g
February 9, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
N8 I like this comment:
Or weren’t you paying attention to the Tom Glavine, Rafael Furcal, Jaret Wright, Kyle Farnsworth, Gary Sheffield, JD Drew contract negotiations the las few years? JS absolutely WILL NOT OVERPAY for anybody……even Andruw.
So tell me, do you think that $14.5 million per year might be considered “excessive?” JS is forced to overpay Mike Hampton for two more years. If he could find some team foolish enough to take him, Hampton would be gone.
No self respecting team would trade a crackerjack box for Hampton and his contract.
When you make a point, try to back it up with logic. Average pay over the course of a contract and monies paid by insurance companies have nothing to do with the fact that:
Mike Hampton is the most overpaid athletes in Atlanta.
By mike
February 9, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
hampton is a washed-out, wanna be…he is old, cant pitch like he used to, hasnt played in forever, and gets paid more than smoltz? he needs to be cut, or traded, or just plain fired…get rid of that injury-prone old fart!!!
By TC
February 9, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
To Eric the Elder at 10:02, I at first also did a double take when reading Hampton’s line about Smoltz “if he can do it anyone can”. Don’t think he meant it that way. Think he meant if Smoltz with the multiple arm related surgeries he’s had can keep coming back and maintain his future HOF playing level, then a less accomplished talent like Hampton should be able to do it. Go Hampton and Smoltz, and go Braves!
By brooks
February 9, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this
Billy G..
Wow, you’ve been completely shown up, and it’s clearly proved that you know nothing at all about what you are saying, and yet you keep trying to make the arguement. Just because he’s had trouble the last couple of years doesn’t mean he’s oft injured. From 1997 - 2004 he pitched at least 170 innings every year and over 200 5 of those years and started at least 30 games every one of those years as well. So no, he’s not oft injured, he had one severe injury, which Smotlz has proved you can recover from. And for the record, your beloved Andruw Jones who is going to want the moon and the stars is not what you think he is. He’s still a find def player, but the last 3 years, his range in CF has not been outstanding, and his OPS, RC, RC per 27 outs are nothing special either…so he’s not all he’s cracked up to be offensively either…giving him $15 mil plus for the next several years would almost assuredly spell doom for the franchise.
By Canadian brave
February 9, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this
I think what the Braves need most is a good start! Having a good, winning record at the end of June is critical. It would give Hampton more time to heal and some of the new additions time to gel. Some of the veterans, who make the big bucks are going to have to “step up to the plate”(I’m sorry I couldn’t resist). There are also some good young talents in the minors that might be more major league ready by the middle of the season. If the Braves are in the hunt in June then look out!
Go Braves
By brooks
February 9, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this
As a matter of fact, but all objective measurements, Adam LaRoche had both a better offensive and defensive year than Andruw Jones…not to say that defensively, LaRoche is more valuable than Andruw, but he fields his position than Andruw fields his. LaRoche had better numbers in RC, RC per 27 outs, and ISOP. So yes, what I’m saying is that in the long run, we’d have better off dumping Andruw and keeping LaRoche. Hampton will get between 10 and 15 wins with an ERA around 4, which will be plenty good enough to get us where we want to be..and hopefully he’ll be rounding into form in time for the post season.
By kerrell goolsby
February 9, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
Hampton’s return is NEEDED! Last year was the year that a team that had NO right to win the NL East win. If it takes Hampton’s return to put another banner on the 755 Club at the Ted and dethrone the New Yuck Muts, I am in favor of it!
By Sal
February 9, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this
Forget the Braves…LETS GO METS!!!! and Falcons!!!!
By anonymous
February 9, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this
If we are to be sucessful next season we either aquire Rocco Baldelli or put Kelly Johnson in left field and put Pete Orr at second base and let him lead off. Also those of you who say we don’t need Hampton, keep in mind that Tim Hudson has not performed up to par and that would mean that Chuck James and John Smoltz would be the leaders. I think we need one more starter, just in case. Last thing, I read where the Nationals would be willing to trade their closer Chad Cordero for two young arms. What are you waiting for Scheurholtz, we definitely have that!
By AZBravoFan
February 9, 2007 01:00 PM | Link to this
The need to bring Hampton along slowly just underscores how important those offseason bullpen moves were. Sure, six good innings avg. would be great. But for April and May, while we have our 12 man staff, I think they could even get away with 4-5 innings a night. Villareal or Cormier could help cover the middle, and the 3-headed monster could shut it down. Then when he hits his stride hopefully in the second half, the bullpen can get rested up for the playoffs. The only danger here is falling in love with the pen so much that they get overworked and can’t perform in October.
By N8
February 9, 2007 01:08 PM | Link to this
KC
Fair arguement. You know I respect your point of view and opinion (don’t always agree with it - but respect it).
As far as the arguement of 7 good seasons and 1 bad one vs. somebody being not so good and having one good one and getting paid? My MAIN concern with Hudson is as follows, call me a fool, but it’s a concern:
The guy weighs about 112 pounds soaking wet. He has had oblique and cramping issues throughout his career (he’s admitted to that). He pictched for most of his career in Oakland, NOT the hottest of venues throughout the summer. In fact it’s downright COLD there in the spring and fall.
Then he comes to Atlanta. Probably warmer there in the fall and the spring than it is in Oakland in mid-July. LOL!. The guy sweats his A$$ off bigtime, because he is (has been) a work horse. I’m just not sure with those circumstances, that he can completely avoid the type of injuries that he’s had the last few years. I’m not a doctor, but I know that when it’s hot as hell outside and you’re workin hard, it’s hard to keep it going. I can’t imagine the strain of throwing 100 or so pitches in NO SHADE when it’s 90 some degrees and 250 percent humidity. Is Hudson a pitcher on the decline? Who knows? But I think he’s an injury (based on his weight and build) waiting to happen as long as he’s in Atlanta.
billy g
Question for you. Since you INSIST on calling Mike Hampton the most overpaid athlete in Atlanta. If he wins about 15 games this year and has an above average ERA (around 3.50), would he still be overpaid, in today’s market?
Besides, if you say that ANYBODY in recent Braves memory has been overpaid. You’d have to be a blind fool to say that anybody other than Dan Kolb and Chris Reitsma were the most overpaid guys in Atlanta. Even last year without Hampton even throwing a pitch, he was MORE valuble than Reitsma was. NO MATTER WHAT THE DOLLAR AMMOUNT WAS.
I’m sorry dude. Unless Hampton fails MISERABLEY, he won’t be overpaid, in this current market.
Jason Marquis just signed a 3 year 21 million dollar contract with the Cubs this offseason. You may look at that and say: “hmmm, 7 million a year aint that bad”. Sure on the surface, it doesn’t look so bad.
Here’s his stats for last year:
14-16 with a 6.02 ERA, 194 IP, 221 hits, 75 BB’s, and 96 K’s.
AND HE GETS 7 MILLION PER YEAR?!!
Just to put it in perspective, here are Jorge Sosa’s numbers from last year:
3-11 with a 5.42 ERA, 118 IP, 138 hits, 40 BB’s, and 75 K’s.
The way I see it, the only reason he didn’t get as many IP, is because he didn’t get as many starts. The wins are irrelevent with BOTH of their ERA’s. NEITHER of them, clearly, were not good pitchers last year.
So, would you rather have two guys like that on your roster, or one Mike Hampton?
Mike Hampton could mis 6 years of baseball, and based on his track record, I would take him everyday of the week and TWICE on Sunday’s over somebody like Jorge Sosa and/or Jason Marquis.
By sammy miller
February 9, 2007 01:16 PM | Link to this
Did Terrence write this article or a imposter?! Everyone remember Sam I Am!!!
By Tami
February 9, 2007 01:26 PM | Link to this
From reading all comments, here’s what I have to say: Ahhhh….baseball season is BACK! Thank God!!
Go, Braves!!
By Jeff
February 9, 2007 01:28 PM | Link to this
I hope Hampton comes back strong although we really shouldn’t expect more than say a 7-7 record from him…but that would be a big help. It’s only been a few weeks and we don’t even talk about Laroche any more….funny how potentially good pitching changes everything!!
By KC
February 9, 2007 01:48 PM | Link to this
N8: Thoughtful arguments as usual. =)
A few things: First, Hudson’s first season in Atlanta (2005) was almost identical to his 2004 season back in Oakland. It seemed the oblique injury was a much bigger injury than the weather. Second, he was healthy in 2006. Heck, maybe he forgot how to pitch without pain… I don’t know. And lastly, in regard to his ability to throw 100 pitches in 90 degrees… he won’t have to. If he’s going great and can throw 100-plus pitches, GREAT! But with this bullpen, that will probably never be necessary of any starter.
Our bullpen isn’t just about the big three. If you take away Tyler Yates’ lousy month of August, he would have posted a 2.17 ERA, and posted a 2.70 ERA in September as the Braves’ setup man. Macay McBride posted a 2.91 ERA from July 16th on. And Villarreal was excellent over the last 3rd of the season, posting an ERA of 1.42 (I think it was) in September. And Chad Paronto was very good all season.
This bullpen takes a lot of pressure off guys like Hampton and Hudson. I think that’s why JS pulled the trigger on the Mike Gonzalez deal. If Hudson and Hampton were both coming off perfectly healthy CY Young caliber seasons… that trade probably doesn’t happen.
Anyway, back to Hudson… he started to wear down toward the end of the season, and I think there are probably a couple of reasons for that. It may be that Hudson has to condition himself differently, and that’s something he’s been doing all winter. But more than that, I think he just wore down from what was a very, very long season for him in every regard. You’ve probably heard pitchers say that there’s a big difference between throwing a fairly typical 90 pitches in a game, and throwing 90 pitches under pressure with runners on base (and, last year, the knowledge that there’s no one in the bullpen capable of bailing you out).
It’s not just the number of innings or pitches thrown that wears a pitcher down. There is such a thing as a “hard inning”. And even if you don’t throw many more pitches than an easy one… it takes a lot more out of you. It taxes you more physically, mentally, and emotionally.
Well… by the time August and September rolled around, Hudson had thrown an awful lot of “hard” innings, and he started to wear down. But up until that point, there was nothing wrong with his stuff at all… just his location.
Anyway, my point is that Hudson’s endurance will be far less of an issue this season. Same for Hampton coming back from his surgery. Not to mention the fact that it will allow Smoltz to make good on the promise he made last March to dial it back a little and save something for October. When you really start to think not only about how lights-out this pen should be in the late innings, but also how its presence will help this rotation… JS looks a little more genius every day.
By gb
February 9, 2007 01:55 PM | Link to this
bill g some free agent pitchers with career losing records and 4.5 era’s got 12 to 15 million this off season.
By KC
February 9, 2007 02:01 PM | Link to this
meant to say… “was a much bigger issue than the weather”
By N8
February 9, 2007 02:11 PM | Link to this
KC
I hear ya, about the bullpen helping out Hudson and Hampton. Not to mention Smoltz. That bullpen will even help Chuck James when he’s making his 2nd and 3rd time around the league and other teams adjust, Cox can now afford to have a quick hook if neccesary.
I REALLY, REALLY believe that with that bullpen, Hudson, AND Hampton, will have pretty decent years.
I was ALL FOR the Gonzalez trade for the same reason’s you mentioned. Would it have been nice to keep Laroche? Sure. But (like you said), since Hampton hasn’t pitched in almost two years, and Hudson has bee FAR from perfect, Smoltz’s age and James/Davies/Cormier (and any other young gun thrown in the mis), JS couldn’t afford NOT to make that trade.
We’ll survive without LaRoche’s and Giles’s bats MUCH MORE than we would’ve survived with them and no improvement in the bullpen.
Just my opinion. I truely want to believe Hudson will turn it around, but I still have my doubts.
Go Braves.
By KC
February 9, 2007 02:27 PM | Link to this
N8: I’m not willing to bet the farm on Hudson… but I do have a “beer or beverage of choice at a Braves game” bet with GRINCH.
3.75 is our bench mark. If Hudson heads into the last home stand of the season with an ERA below that… he’s buying. If not, I’m buying.
I feel pretty good about that bet. I’m not will to bet on Hudson looking like his old 2002/2003 self next season… but I truly believe he’ll shave at least a full run off his ERA from last year.
In fact, I feel so good about that bet that I upped the anti to include a Skip & Pete’s BBQ sandwich! lol
By juju
February 9, 2007 02:46 PM | Link to this
Write this down: Hudson will never return to his level of dominance he enjoyed in the AL. He is a puny speciman of a man who tired after 4 innings. I love how he claims to have finally started an off-season workout program to increase his stamina. Shouldn’t you have done that all along?
He was dominant in Oakland because he was young. His career is on the decline. He can’t blow anyone away (note the steady decline in strikeouts) and when he gets behind in the count he serves up 90mph meatballs down the ccenter of the plate.
He will be a #3 type starter from here on out, and will remain a huge waste of money.
By Spike
February 9, 2007 02:59 PM | Link to this
If Mike Hammpton wins 10-12 games this year, you would have to classify that as a miracle. Even with all the successes of ligament surgery, it is no given that anyone will recover fully from the surgery, so let’s hope that his bulldog attitude will prevail and he’ll give us the season we’re hoping for. To the people who keep harping on our starters only needing six innings, no team has ever won the World Series by using the starters for six innings. If that happens, by the time post season rolls around the bullpen will be overworked and tired, no matter how much we have improved. Finally to Braves Fan who wants to lose Bobby Cox, be careful what you wish for. He will retire one day and then you’ll appreciate what a great baseball man he is. All you need to do is listen to current and former players and how they talk about the man. He is not only a great baseball man, but a great person who has complete respect in the baseball world.
By Mariano Rivera and Jim Wetland
February 9, 2007 03:17 PM | Link to this
Spike,
You’re right! NO team has EVER won the World Series with having their starters go for 6 innings only. BUT the 1996 Yankees came as close as possible using Rivera in the 7th and 8th while Wetland took care of the 9th. Boy, they came SO close!
By Stuart
February 9, 2007 03:20 PM | Link to this
Why in the H*ll didnt we sign Shannon Stewart to a deal. He is an accomplished LF and leadoff man. The A’s signed him for one million for one year. Why dont we sign guys like that?
By KC
February 9, 2007 03:21 PM | Link to this
Spike: There is now a 90% percent success rate for pitchers returning from Tommy John surgery. That’s a verifiable fact. “Success” is defined Dr. James Andrews as a pitcher being back at 100% 18 months after the surgery.
Now… he means 100% physically. That doesn’t mean that Hampton won’t have a re-acclimation process. He’ll have to lose the fear and start trusting his arm again, and he’ll have to regain his rhythm and “feel” for his pitches.
I think classifying 10-12 wins as a “miracle”, with this offense and bullpen… is a GROSS overstatement. In fact… 10-12 wins is probably a good, conservative prediction of what we can expect out of Hampton this year.
Hampton’s arm will be fine. He’ll have to re-acclimate, like anyone does who’s coming back from a surgery like this one. But there is a statistical 90% chance that he’ll be back where he was at some point in the not-too-distant future.
I’m just hoping he can be sharp when September and October roll around.
By stamper
February 9, 2007 03:39 PM | Link to this
Mike Hampton once swam the mississippi river. the entire river. in one day. then went out and pitched a complete game that same night.
By stomper
February 9, 2007 04:36 PM | Link to this
Stamper once drank a 12-pack of Milwaukee’s Best, the whole 12 pack and then sat down and posted on this blog.
By TennesseePaul
February 9, 2007 04:40 PM | Link to this
Actually, I think it would be the 15th post season in 17 seasons… we did see Bud Cancel a post season one year…
By Armstrong
February 9, 2007 04:56 PM | Link to this
Could somebody please refresh my memory and tell me if Johnson or Prado is a speed demon? Average speed? Just curious…cause a basestealer would be nice, althought it’s not a 100% need. Plus a speed leadoff hitter would be nice. But as long as they get on base, I’m content
By KC
February 9, 2007 05:38 PM | Link to this
Armstrong:
Both have above average speed at best. They won’t clog up the basepaths, but they’re not going to steal a lot of bases either.
By Armstrong
February 9, 2007 05:56 PM | Link to this
I appreciate it KC thanks man
By Head Coach
February 9, 2007 06:41 PM | Link to this
Juju , your dead wrong about Hudson. He had a sub par season last year. thats just one season in your narrow minded view. Let me clue you in : Hudson after eight seasons as a starter is 119-60 . At the same point after eight years Maddux was 115-85 , Smoltz was 90-82 , Glavine was 108-75. Did I mention that huddy has a career winning percentage of .665 which is better than the previously mentioned three pitchers. I’m not saying Hudson is on the same caliber or plane as a the hall of famers that Maddux , Glavine and Smoltz will one day be. I’m saying that after eight seasons , Huddy has better numbers.
By BRAVES-GIRL
February 9, 2007 07:16 PM | Link to this
I HOPE HAMPTON IS ABLE TO COME BACK,BUT LET’S FACE REALITY,NOT TO MANY PITHERS COME BACK FROM TOMMY-JOHN SURGERY? AND FOR TERRENCE MOORE TO BLAME THE REST OF THE STAFF IF HE DO’S NOT IS REALLY UNFAIR!IF THE BRAVE’S DO NOT WIN THE EAST IS JUST PLAIN STUPID.TO MANY INJURY’S COULD HAPPEN TO ANY NUMBER OF HAMPTON’S TEAM-MATES,AND THEN AS-ALWAY’S THE INPENDING SALE OF THE TEAM.IF TIME-WARNER,OR M.L.B. EVER GET’S AROUND TO MAKING A DEAL WITH ANY-ONE,EVEN THE MOON-PEPOLE,SO THE SALERY CAP THAT THE OWNER’S HAVE INPOSED AND BACKED BY M.L.B.MUST APPOROVED OF PLEASE DONT PUT NOT WINNING ON ONE OR IN MY OPINION ANY OF THE PLAYER’S BUT ONTHE OWNERSHIPAND M.L.B.
By Spike
February 9, 2007 07:36 PM | Link to this
KC That was exactly my point. Most complete recoveries take 18-24 months. That would mean that we shouldn’t expect too much from Hampton until after the all-star break. There is a period where scar tissue has to break loose and when that happens it’s a scary thing for a pitcher who has just come off surgery. It takes awhile to trust the elbow, then awhile to get back to arm strength, then the rest is just trusting and believing in yourself. Smoltz talked about the recovery period as a place of self doubt until you are able to cut loose with no fear. Hopefully Hampton hits his srtide early and my estimate for wins is off, but the number of wins isn’t as important as being healthy from mid July on.
By stamper
February 9, 2007 07:43 PM | Link to this
Mike Hampton was the sole person involved with the construction of Atlantic Station here in atlanta. And he did it all with nothing more than a couple of nails and his goatee. true story.
By stew
February 9, 2007 07:47 PM | Link to this
Who’s to say whether or not Hampton will make it back? It’s all about “what have you done lately.” Soriano and Gonzalez - great deals on paper - but they were both injured at the end of last year. The most important pitchers we have are Davies, James, Harrison, and Lerew. They represent the future.