Sports Columnists

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 19, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

It’s too bad LaRoche had to go, but he only makes it even more obvious how fickle and misinformed Atlanta fans are. It hasn’t even been a full year since he jogged over to first base casually, allowing Nick Johnson to get on base and starting a rally for the Nationals. What happened then? “Trade him! What a slacker! He’s a disgrace! Bench the loser!” Now the Braves trade him, and half the Braves’ “fans” are in a state of mourning. Pretty funny if you ask me. Then again, it’s nothing out of the ordinary for Atlanta fans. Whether it’s Brett Favre, Adam LaRoche, Ron Gant, or Michael Vick, Atlanta fans’ M.O. is love ‘em as long as they are perfect, but the minute they make a mistake of any kind, act like they are a disgrace to the city and the fans. No wonder Atlanta only has 1 world championship in any of the major sports.

Hope LaRoche succeeds in Pittsburgh.

By N8

January 19, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

Najeh

You still haven’t answered my question about you “growing any tails” recently. Perhaps you just haven’t found the right closet yet.

By Chris

January 20, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this

I agree with just about every word written in this blog. What a stupid move by the Braves. Once they decide they can’t afford Andruw next year then will there be any offense at all left on this team? Great pitching wins a lot of games, but if you can’t score any runs then no amount of great pitching will do you any good at all.

By Jonathan

January 20, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

Well I can say that, average hitter are every where, Laroche last year was good, ButI believe that the deal was good for me, Why? because you don’t find a dominant pither like GONZO so often soo I believe Laroche can be replace, don’t get me wrong I will miss him. Now we need to make the Baldelli deal to upgrade our offense from Laroche traded. Kyle Davies & Escobar for Baldelli OOOOOUCH….WE ARE SOOOOO FIIIIIINE LET’S GO BrAveS

By Devin

January 20, 2007 01:21 AM | Link to this

The Braves were the #2 scoring NL team. They can afford to trade that unexpected production from LaRoche into one of the best relievers in the game because of the likes of McCann, Francoeur, Jones, and Jones have potential to hit 30 or more home runs.

Thorman will be more than an adequate replacement. He’s no slouch nor an easy out. He’ll be batting 7th or 8th - and many predict him as having 20 or more home runs given 500 ABs. Not bad for a 7th or 8th hitter, eh?

This is the offensive era of baseball and quality pitchers won’t come cheap. You can easily find another first basemen with run producing skills than left-handed pitcher who limits right-handers to .191 BA.

Hudson pitches at league average right now. And that’s a bad thing - can’t imagine what he’ll be like once he figures out his mechanics. He’s only paid $8 million dollars for this year - a huge bargain given the current market (Jason Marquis at $7 million).

The Braves tried all those other options, Yates, MacBride, Villareal, and ect. None proved to be a reliable set-up man - in fact those are the same people who blew 29 saves.

This is not squandering of talent. He over achieved last year and not many teams see him as an everyday player. No one is expecting LaRoche to produce another 32 home runs. His defense will be missed - but Thorman isn’t a slouch like LaRoche.

Jones currently makes $13 million per year and said he will think about the possibility of $16 per year. Reality is, Jones probably won’t be back. Not because the Braves can’t afford him, they don’t want to over pay him like another team will be willing to do (+$20 million per year).

You say for a million more they could have had LaRoche. Are you going to pay that million dollars? I don’t think the Braves wanted to/could either.

Giles may have fire in his belly, but not on the field. He’s declined since his rookie year and finally his production doesn’t match his paycheck. His production (11 home runs and 60 RBIs) can be matched by almost any of the Braves minor league second basemen. He and LaRoche could be replaced. The inability to trade him before he wasn’t offered a contract proves that no one wanted him for that much money.

Those only 50 innings that Gonzalez will pitch are probably going to be some of the most important 50 innings the Braves will play in. The Braves lead the league in blown saves - and JS was able to turn our biggest weakness into what might be our biggest strength. Smoltz would be a 2 time Cy Young winner if it weren’t for the blown saves he suffered.

Bottom line is, would you rather have a lovable player or a better team?

By John

January 20, 2007 01:24 AM | Link to this

Bisher, do you even watch the Braves?

Sorry to tell you, but LaRoche’s 90 RBI were LESS than 11 other first basemen in MLB. His 32 homers were beaten by 9 other first basemen.

The Braves 7th hitter drove in 90 runs and the team STILL finished 18 games back. How could that be?

Because our ‘one inning whizzes’ blew 29 saves.

By rupert

January 20, 2007 01:33 AM | Link to this

problem is that you neglect that gonzalez will be the closer in 08 and beyond after wick retires, for all you say about larache 2 months does not make a star

By Bobby

January 20, 2007 03:33 AM | Link to this

I think both players have an unknown quality about them. As stated, closers can be lights-out one year and never be heard of again. LaRoche had a good year by any standards but he doesn’t have a long track record either. About 1/2 way through the season, we will begin to see how these trades worked out. I do think getting 3 closers is a bit of overkill, but if one - or two does fail there will at least be decent options. I think the Pirates got the better deal - slightly - on paper, but again, let it play out before we jump to conclusions. If LaRoche really has come into his own as a power hitter, he will be exactly what Pittsburgh needs. Not only decent power (which they have VERY little of), but left handed power to take advantage of PNC Park’s short right field. I could see him hitting 40+ homers there. And Gonzalez is a real fighter. Be warned that his stats suggest that he is Mr. Automatic as far as closing, buththe truth is that he very often walked a batter - or two - but found a way out of it with his fiery temperament, a decent fastball and an absolutely wicked slider. As long as he can keep running through the raindrops without getting wet - or better yet, QUIT THE BASE ON BALLS - Gonzo will give Braves fans alot to cheer about.

By Jim@Pine Mountain

January 20, 2007 07:15 AM | Link to this

Mr Bisher has written a very thought provoking column. if everyone proforms as they did in the past, we indeed have a glut of closers and weak right side of the infield. Also, we have given up a solid bat. However, who knows what 07 will bring. These issues and uncertainty make it the greatest game on earth.

By Eric

January 20, 2007 08:14 AM | Link to this

This sounds like major league waiting to happen

By John Tucker

January 20, 2007 08:16 AM | Link to this

Bobby Cox simply could not stand another season wuth LaRoche’s once weekly ,minimum,bonehesd plays—like bunting with men on 1st and 3rd or forgeytiting to be cut-off man. ‘

LaRoche;s big bat and smooth glove will be missed, but not his spaciness and lackadaisical demeanor, nor his prolonged slumps and strikeouts in bunches..

By I am the decider

January 20, 2007 08:38 AM | Link to this

I am with you all the way, Furman. But, I just love how some people use stats. (11th in MLB among 1st baseman in RBIs and 9th in HRs.) The Braves play in the NL and those stats are the ones I am most interested in. (4th in HRs, 6th in RBIs, .927 OPS (higher than Delgado’s). I know he isn’t in the Howard and Pujols category, but Ryan Howard plays in that band box in Philly and Pujols is an offensive machine. Macay McBride held left handed batters to a .181 BA and I don’t think that is big deal and Franceour needs a lot more development as a hitter. Gonzalez had to spend 15 days on the DL with arm fatigue last season.. great.

By TK

January 20, 2007 09:05 AM | Link to this

I concur with those before me who brought up how atrocious the Braves bullpen was last year. While Wickman looked solid when he came over from the AL last year, let’s face it, he ain’t gettin’ any younger. The Braves need not only one or two solid, “go to” setup men but an insurance policy in case Wickman tanks mid way through this season.

In addition, the real star of this deal for the Braves according to writers who know far more than me such as Buster Olney and Ken Rosenthal may be the “player to be named”, Brent Lillibridge a “A”-level second baseman. He has some speed, hits for average and may be the heir apparent to the dearly departed Marcus Giles.

Braves fans - fret not - we will not regret the loss of LaRoche when all is said and done with this deal.

By Chris

January 20, 2007 09:07 AM | Link to this

The whole thing make sense now that C. Wilson is on board. He’s not LaRoche but between him and Thorman that should be about 20 HR’s. I’d rather have that and Gonzalez than just Laroche.

For all this talk of too many closers…one had arm problems last year, one needs to rebound from taking a liner in the head, and one looks like the 60-day DL waiting to happen. No way they all make it through the season healthy and productive. Thus you need more.

Laroche’s die was cast in the ‘05 playoffs when he jogged around the bases with the potential winning run in Houston. He came out of the game right after that (remember Clemens blowing Julio away late?). I think at that point Bobby wrote LaRoche off long term.

By Cousin Pete

January 20, 2007 09:13 AM | Link to this

DITTO!

By Head Coach

January 20, 2007 09:20 AM | Link to this

Mr. Bisher I’ll agree to disagree with you. I thought that Wickman and Soriano backed up by the rest of the pitchers you mentioned would be enough to do the job. However , the reality is that Hampton and his surgically repaired elbow are a bit of a mystery coming into the 2007 season. Davies for all his minor league promise has been a failure so far pitching for the Braves. Beyond Smoltz , Hudson , James and Villarreal there is nothing but smoke and mirrors. No depth and as of yet no prospects who can step into this rotation. Schuerholz and Cox know this. The build up of this dominant bullpen has reduced virtually every game to six innings and every time this team has a lead after the fifth or sixth inning they have to close the deal. I understand that you are old school Mr. Bisher and think less of relief pitchers than the rest of us , but the game has changed drastically over the last thirty years or so. We have one inning pitchers , long relief , pinch hitting specialist , defensive replacements , scouting reports , video and on and on. It is a different game , far different. I agree , this team is going to have problems defensively on the right side of the infield. But this softball beer league style offense is going to be fun , watching them bash the long ball even if they cant run worth a dang or play small ball. Schuerholz picked up a young five tool stud shortstop in Brent Lillibridge in this trade and its way to early for drawing conclusions as to who got the better end of the deal. You forget , Laroche was a huge rally killer last season and he strikes out way to much with runners in scoring position. His defense will be sorely missed and his teammates will miss him. I wish Laroche all the best in Pittsburgh because he is going to be put in a situation where failure will be far easier than success.

By Dave knockahomer

January 20, 2007 09:23 AM | Link to this

The trade stinks BUT I Scott Thorman will only succeed at first IF given the needed bats but we all know, Cox MUST platoon! and platoon he will. Just as he platooned Klesko, who went on to hit very well against lefties. And maybe even Adam would have done as well IF given the chance(s). Yes, Adam had his ADD moments, but we need bats, not more bullpen arms! And the starters are a HUGE concern! Hudson is so-so and wish we could have traded him but ?? Hampton has to prove his mettle. Worry about Wickman when we have to. STUPID DUMB A** MOVE. BUT as a Braves fan, who is getting accustomed to stupid moves, I shall see how things go and still yell: GO BRAVES

By Jeff R

January 20, 2007 09:24 AM | Link to this

The problem is the Braves’ $80 million payroll. With market inflation this winter, it’s worth even less.

Think if Schuerholz had the budget, he’d have let Furcal go (a bigger loss, in my opinion, than Giles and LaRoche combined)? Moreover, he most certainly would have had the budget to easily retain Giles and LaRoche and add relief help.

But, if hard choices have to be made, and they do, Schuerholz is doing the smart thing: correcting a pathetic bullpen by adding two pitchers who have strong arms and, at least, some history of getting the job done.

If there’s to be finger pointing, point squarely at Time Warner, the Braves’ corporate masters who don’t give a fig about baseball, the Braves or Atlanta.

Unless or until the Braves have an owner that really loves the game, cares about the franchise and respects Atlanta and its fans, expect Schuerholz to make more hard choices. The man’s been given a crummy hand and is doing his best with it.

By Tom

January 20, 2007 09:27 AM | Link to this

Simply amazed at this article and not in a good way.

“What do we do with three closers?” Uh…you effectively end the game after the 6th inning, Furm.

One of the MAJOR reasons the Braves have been so ineffective in the post-season is due to the lack of power arms in the bullpen. We have no Leo to resurrect reclamation projects anymore and even when we did, these weren’t the guys you wanted to hang your hat on when the playoffs came.

You lament the right side of the infield and talk about how we didn’t save money?

First of all, the money saver was at 2nd, not so much 1st. So when you add the $5 mil that Giles would’ve received after arbitration and the $3 mil that you believe LaRoche would’ve gotten, that’s $8 mil we WOULD’VE paid.

With Wilson/Thorman and Johnson, I would imagine that’s less than $3 mil. We saved $5+ million.

“Behind the three “closers,” they have Oscar Villarreal, Macay McBride, Tyler Yates, Chad Paronto, Joey Devine, Lance Cormier and Blaine Boyer. Somewhere among them might there not have been an undiscovered gem…”

Do you even WATCH the Braves? An “undiscovered gem”???????? They all were given tons of appearances and you want to go that route again?????

My last rant is how you feel that if our rotation is a strength, why “overload” the bullpen?

Our rotation contains an aging Smoltz, he of several arm surgeries, Hampton, coming off surgery, a young James, and Davies (also coming off an injury).

You DON’T tax their arms by going 8 innings with these guys. Let them go 6+ innings and then use this great bullpen.

By Dave knockahomer

January 20, 2007 09:33 AM | Link to this

I am to post again cause of some abusive jerks ……and that is not me! dumb ajc! anyway, the trade stinks. We get Gonzalez for LaRoche cause we wanted to save money.
Worry about replacement for Wickman when that time comes. LaRoche was a bat that we needed in spite of his ADD moments. BUT we know if Cox don’t like ya, yer out. Trouble is Cox likes alot of mediocre players at times….. The starting rotation isn’t all that certain, people. Hudson is, well, just Hudson. Hampton has to prove himself again. Davis=—who knows? only certainty is Smoltzie! Thorman most likely can succeed IF he isn’t platooned, but COX LOVES to platoon! Look at Klesko…he was platooned here, never given a chance to hit against lefties. Sent to San Diego, wasn’t platooned and PROVED he could hit lefties……and for a couple of years, was amazing at stealing bases…which is another thing not in Cox’s book. Cox loves the BIG BATS…..the HOMERS. So, even though LaRoche had his ADD moments, he could hit the long one…about as well as the media darling in right field. Our most consistent hitter is behind homeplate. The others hit inconsistently. I DO NOT LIKE THIS TRADE AT ALL, but as a Braves fan, what can I do? Nothing…..except wish LaRoche great Pirating and pray that Cox will NOT platoon Scott Thorman. I daydream!

By Dave knockahomer

January 20, 2007 09:43 AM | Link to this

Let me correct myself. When I said: “the HOMERS. So, even though LaRoche had his ADD moments, he could hit the long one…about as well as the media darling in right field.”

LaRoche did NOT hit as many long ones but his average was way better than the right fielders. BUT it is home run hitters that rule.

By Jay

January 20, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

This wasnt about money. Gonzo makes a million less then LaRoche. Otherwise I agree with your blog.

By Bottom line

January 20, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

The bottom line is if we had a bullpen last year, we’re in the playoffs. Now we have a bullpen, a better rotation and still enough sticks to score runs.

By Gary T.

January 20, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

TIME WARNER CONTINUES TO DESTROY THE BRAVES, AND RAPE ATLANTA. CHANGE THE NAME TO THE TIME WARNER LYING MONOPOLISTS.

ATLANTANS, DO ALL YOU CAN TO BANKRUPT TIME WARNER.BOYCOTT.

By Jerry

January 20, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

I’m all for the trade, but there’s still questions.

Must have strong bullpen feel good there.

Must have good starting staff. Smoltzie-I love him but every time I see him pitch I expect his arm to go. You must rest him in innings so when the playoffs come he doesn,t suffer arm weariness. Hampton-There is absolutly no way to see how he goes. 1-he does great and is the same old Hampton or 2 he can’t or doesn’t recover. Time will tell. James-I hope and pray he is all he showed us last year. He has to do it over a season and this is the season we see. Hudson-How can you just lose mechanics. Is it true he’s an american league picture 1st base-unknown 2nd base-unknown SS-am happy there 3rd base-will chipper play a full year LF-unknown CF-let him retire a BRAVE. He is the Atlanta Braves RF-set for a while C-the best in the game and this year will be his stamp. Another good year and he’s legit or a flash in the pan

So lets look. Question marks with all starting pitchers. Bullpen-only question is, does Sariano come back Questions at 1st, 2nd and left with a wish at 3rd Question can McCann show he’s legit

I love baseball

Maybe with Giles gone we will stop seeing that hard head banging after a homerun

By ATLslimG

January 20, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

Maybe John’s best move. Worst being the Justice thing. If we could just pickup someone who can produce in the clutch to help the Jones’s. Think we are moving in the right direction. Promote TP to Manager in-training with Bobby moving to the player developement side in a couple of years if things go good.

By Eugene

January 20, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

We will be sitting here next year after another post season melt down. We willnot be able to score runs this year. There is no protection for Andruw in the lineup. (Chipper willbe hurt as usual). We will loose alot of 3-2 and 4-3 ballgames and JS will proclaim the season a success. Same ole, Same ole… Go Braves…

By Zathras

January 20, 2007 01:03 PM | Link to this

The guys who write for the Pittsburgh paper are thrilled with this trade. They should be.

The Pirates desperately needed a quality left-handed bat, and got a reliable glove at first base in this bargain. The Braves addressed last season’s problem, but this season’s problem is likelier to be the starting rotation, full of players who are either old or frequently hurt. For this season, getting both Gonzalez and Soriano is bullpen overkill. If you’re trailing after the 6th, a stable full of rocket arms in the bullpen won’t help you that much.

About LaRoche himself, Bisher is right. An every-day player who improved at the plate as much as he did and rarely made errors at first is someone a team can build on. He’s worth more than a reliever. I suspect Schuerholz knows this, and I do think he bought himself a chance to make this trade look better down the road by insisting on Lillibridge. But the financial pressure caused by the Braves having sunk so much money into their aging rotation forced a bad trade.

By Dusty

January 20, 2007 01:06 PM | Link to this

Aww, I liked LaRoche. It was fun to watch him.

He stolled casually to home plate. Then hit the ball just as casually and we watched it travel far far away. He hurried to first base. Stood there with a little smile. He was well balanced.

He loves base ball but still knows it is just a game. No fire, no dazzle, no wheeling dealing for money, just a man who loved to play baseball. He is good. I’m sorry he is not a Brave anymore. I will miss him. There are not a lot of Braves left who make baseball enjoyable.

By WALKING BEAR

January 20, 2007 01:13 PM | Link to this

Furman, have you considered retiring? You really should look into it. I sure have enjoyed my last 16 years of doing nothing but keeping up with facts and writing my weekly column. I’m a political writer but even I know Chipper Jones never played a single game at first base as you claimed above.

And for all you naysayers who continue bellyaching about the Braves trading LaRoche to save money, why don’t you look at some facts? They traded him and his estimated $3 million salary for a pitcher who will make $2.35 million and then signed a pinch hitter/1B for $2 million. Will someone tell me how the Braves saved all that money?

At least make an effort to get your facts straight.

By David

January 20, 2007 01:15 PM | Link to this

Adam was allowed to relax in ATL given that Cox is a players coach and Chipper was there to back him up. This is not going to be the case in Pittsburgh. There the organization, players, and fans are expecting Adam to come in and turn the organization around. I cannot see that happening giving the way Adam approaches the game. He is going to crumble under the pressure. If he were given the chance to stay in ATL he might have been able to continue to put up good numbers. In Pittsburgh he will have to be the go to guy. That will be painful to watch!

By Dave

January 20, 2007 01:17 PM | Link to this

Adam was allowed to relax in ATL given that Cox is a players coach and Chipper was there to back him up. This is not going to be the case in Pittsburgh. There the organization, players, and fans are expecting Adam to come in and turn the organization around. I cannot see that happening giving the way Adam approaches the game. He is going to crumble under the pressure. If he were given the chance to stay in ATL he might have been able to continue to put up good numbers. In Pittsburgh he will have to be the go to guy. That is going to be painful to watch!

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 20, 2007 02:35 PM | Link to this

N8… I didn’t understand a single word of that post. What are you talking about?

By TennesseePaul

January 20, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this

Good job Bisher. Can’t see the forest for the trees. We finally had our first basemen. After several years of him platooning with Franco. We had our first basemen indeed. He had the job to himself for half a season (remember Jordan?). Don’t get me wrong, I appreciated his fine showing last year after the all star break. And that smooth defense that allowed him to hold the ball instead of turning the double play setting up for a Meltdown Grandslam in Chavez Ravine. Or that time he just stood there and let the runner reach, extending the inning to an 8 run melt down. We had our guy. He was here, about to pull in 3+ million for a .241 average against lefties. We had our man. After only a half season of spectacular play he became the only guy on the team. Hitting from the 7th hole he became the heart of the line up.

Thorman on the other hand looks to be a great player. We have him. He’s ours. And he hits lefties. He turns the DP. He hustles back to first to bring an end to the inning. He doesn’t strike out near as much. Maybe his footwork isn’t as fancy… maybe it is. He really hasn’t had a shot yet, but you’ve spoken well enough that we all know he’ll never match that half season LaRoche put up at the end of his third season.

Enough with this please. Last year the pen, those one inning wonders, managed to ruin the greatest team streak in baseball history. No lead was safe. Not even that 8 run lead we had opening day was safe. Maybe that’s because LaRoche hadn’t quite learned how to play. Hadn’t truly set himself up as ours.

LaRoche, thanks for all the work and good times. I hope you do well in Pittsburgh. I for one think you are handing the job over to a fabulous follow up. You should be proud. Thor will have some big shoes to fill and he should fill them nicely.

By True Braves Fan

January 20, 2007 06:25 PM | Link to this

Devin…I agree 100% with your response. What worried me most is the column. Furman Bisher, along with Ed Danforth, et al have always been my heroes. I am saddened to see the once great Bisher so out of it…Please Furman…retire. It is also my opinion that neither Giles nor LaRoche not returning was an economic decision…I think we needed to upgrade the overall ballclub, and so far we have.

By MovieTall1

January 20, 2007 06:28 PM | Link to this

Furman, I usually agree with you on your views, but on LaRoche, you are FULL OF IT! If you don’t hustle in a sport, I have a big problem with that. On more than one occasion last year, LaRoche didn’t bust his a*, and he caught hell for it, just like he should have. I have said for many years baseball players are a bunch of overweight, overpaid crybabies. I hate their attitude about being in shape. They hardly have to run, and they can’t even run out a damn ground ball. The three players that I wanted the Braves to get rid of most were LaRoche, Giles, and Reitsma. F—- LaRoche! I am ecstatic about him leaving.

By KT

January 20, 2007 06:40 PM | Link to this

Sell the Braves to Mr. Blank!

By RLG

January 20, 2007 06:44 PM | Link to this

I think the Braves see Thorman as good replacement for LaRoche. He plays the game with a lot of fire and energy, and can knock the hell out of the ball, too. I believe the kid will put up the following type numbers this year: 20-25 hrs. 75 to 95 RBI. 25-30 doubles, and a couple of three baggers as well. He will hit somewhere around .250 and strike out a lot, unfornately. But he has a lot of upside. But this trade was made to someday move Salty into the 1B position, Thornton back out to LF, and the new SS from Pitt to SS or 2B, and hit leadoff. That kid is very good and will make the trade look very good in the future. Count on it. But Thornton will add a lot more hustle and enthusiasm on the field to this team, something they lacked last year. Gonzo will be a shut down reliever for the next 2 or 3 years…and his arm will probably then fall off. But that SS will then be here putting up big numbers in the lead off position and playing great defense on the infield. And the Braves now have a place for Salty when he matures enough to play on this level…which may be by the end of this year based on how he has come back from his off year last year and his injuries. The Braves will be solid in the future without LaRoche. They will have more energy on the field (I just hated how LaRoche ran on the basepaths…never any show of hustle or enthusiasm…although he is a very nice guy). I think this trade will work out great for the Braves this year and into the future…with the SS and Salty..and Thornton…being big players on the team in the years to follow. Go Braves! I just wish I could see more of them on TV this year living down here in Florida. I will never watch another program on TBS…the only time I watched TBS was when the Braves we on anyway.

By scott

January 20, 2007 06:51 PM | Link to this

I believe this trade had nothing to do with money. It had everything to do with improving this team’s chances to close out games. However, make no mistake, we will sorely miss LaRoche’s defense - great and likely to get better. But his offense probably won’t get measurably better. Furman, that silky smooth swing you mention may look nice, but it’s fundamentally unsound. His effective hitting zone is miniscule - knee high inside. Pitchers will figure him out, and while he’ll probably continue to hit decent HR’s, his average and on-base % will be poor.

Smoltz wins the Cy Young last year with ANY bullpen help. JS HAD to fix the pen, and you can never have too many pen guys who have a “closer mentality and skills”!

Yeah, the games this year probably will be lower scoring, but they’ll win more of them. Offensively this team has been always built for the long ball - no speed, no bunting skills, no base-stealing. And we’ve seen year after year the power go away in the playoffs.

Let’ give this trade the benefit of at least the first half of the season to grade it. But, at this point, I like it a lot.

By TLJ

January 20, 2007 06:58 PM | Link to this

I agree with TennesseePaul’s post

By Carroll

January 20, 2007 07:01 PM | Link to this

STep away from the ledge, Furman. The Braves will be JUST fine….nay, better off without LaRochae and Giles. LaRoche was too much of an uninspired zomby. There are many many examples of this, many of which have already been noted here. ANyone remember the game in his first season with the Braves where he was safe at first on a close play, but he was so out of it that he started slothing off the field to the dugout and they tagged him out? No thank you…that kind of garbage happened WAY too much for me, from a guy who’ll hit maybe .250ish overall, and strike out WAY too much, killing many a rally.

And as far as Giles, he’s the polar opposite of LaRoche…to a fault. He had too much uncontrolled eneregy, particularly at the plate. I was so sick to death of that reckless, swing-from-the-heels approach, trying to hit a homer rather than just get on base. Kelly Johnson will be a MUCH welcomed, refreshing change….the type of guy who goes to the plate with a plan, and who understands the importance of patience, getting on base, and putting the ball in play. ANd his D will proly even be better than Gily’s as he’s a middle infielder by trade and very athletic without being clumsy like Gilly.

So in conclusion, Furman. I can kinda see what you’re saying in that perhaps we could have gotten a little more for Roach (Malholm or Duffy instead of the prospect), or that perhaps Gonzo COULD end up flopping, a la Kolb, but any player could do that…doesn’t mean you sit pat KNOWING that what you have is crap….you gotta take a chance and at least TRY to improve. That’s what JS did, and I for one appreciate it.

By Sick of JS

January 20, 2007 07:14 PM | Link to this

If, excuse me, when Chipper Jones goes down, all of you Braves fans that say it was okay to trade Adam, better damn near hope that Andruw or Frenchy doesn’t go down. If either of those two are out for an extended period, it won’t matter what your bullpen looks like because you will never have the lead. What disappoints me more than anything, is JC’s record of giving up proven major league talent (Millwood, Schmidt, Dye, Estrada, Glavine, Maddux, Betemit, Furcal, Wainwright, Giles, Drew, Sheffield, LaRoche, and soon to be Andruw). Now I know a lot of those were budgetary issues but when you look at the money he pays for washed up players, then it looks stupid. Don’t get me wrong, JC does a great job trading minor league talent for proven veterans; however, his track record the other way, is absolutely sick. FYI: All but a couple the guys mentioned earlier were home grown.

Someone made reference to Adam’s salary. $hit, Wilson is going to make $2MM. JC could have afforded to pay Adam $3MM, had he not signed that broken down relief guy for $750-$950M. And for all that believe Wilson is the answer, Adam’s stats last year were a third of Wilson’s career stats.

I hate this deal. As Bisher said, when we finally got a first baseman, not a platoon situation, we trade him. When the kid finally gets a chance to play everyday and demonstrates that he can produce, he is shipped out. Folks, you better hope JS is gone before Frenchy and McCann arbitration days come. Because he will use the same lame excuse about an $80MM budget. That’s right, I called it an excuse. How normal is it for a budget to remain static over the course of 3 years? Typically, your profits/loss, vision, and/or growth helps dictate your budget. This needs to be JS last season.

By Robert

January 20, 2007 07:20 PM | Link to this

Mr Bisher - The Braves had offense to spare, relatively speaking. The bullpen has been blamed for many a past postseason follie, so the front office might be considered justified in trying to make it idiot-proof.

The only problem is that the idiot will now find some other way to fork things up for everybody

Until Bobby Cox and the Braves part ways, any move the team makes is essentially futile

By 1 + 2 = 4

January 20, 2007 07:21 PM | Link to this

Awful trade!!!!! Give up a young 1st baseman for a one year rental. That’s right, the boy from the Pirates of the Carribean is on the hook for 1 year. And next year, JS will have to pay him mega bucks to keep him. Oh, but wait, we’ll also have to pay for a big bat to replace AJ. Oh yeah, the guy from Seattle is also a frickin 1 year rental. When will we stop renting players and getting rid of our young players. I thought the Wilson Betmint trade was horrible. This one just stinks.

By J.D. Bolick

January 20, 2007 07:23 PM | Link to this

Pretty much the only people who think this trade was bad for Atlanta are Braves fans who got attached to LaRoche. The rest of the baseball world sees it as a clear win for Schuerholz, who not only acquired the superior talent but also got Pittsburgh’s top position prospect. I’m getting that Thorman/Wilson will basically equal what LaRoche does for the Pirates, while Gonzalez and Lillibridge will be strong contributors for years to come.

That said, the ownership situation in Atlanta does need to change. It is ridiculous that a proud organization should be forced to constantly cut payroll for no apparent reason. Given that the Braves reportedly wanted CF Chris Duffy instead of Lillibridge, it seems clear that Andruw won’t be around long either.

By A. B. C

January 20, 2007 07:40 PM | Link to this

excellent trade, It makes the braves better, look at last year we had laroach but he didn’t save any games our weakness was the bullpen and that is stronger now. I don’t understand these AJC columnist who always criticize the home teams for every move they make. Laroach won’t be missed at all, the guy got most of his Homeruns and RBIs when it didn’t matter. Everytime he came up in clutch situation he was an automatic strike out. I wish him the Best in Pitt but better trade for the Braves as saltty will be the next First baseman in a few years.

By Humbug

January 20, 2007 07:41 PM | Link to this

Some players are gone, some new ones coming in, some will leave next year, some more will come in so let’s quit b*** and acting like experts and leave the decisions to the people who can make them, JS and BC. Wait for the season to start to see what we got. Then celebrate one of the best franchises in baseball..GO BRAVES.

By GM R

January 20, 2007 07:49 PM | Link to this

I think this could be a good trade. In the good old days Glavine and Maddux could regularly pitch 8 or 9 innings - the current starters cannot, or should not in the case of Smoltz, and Hampton will not be able to handle more than 5 or 6 innings for at least half the season. So in the current Braves financial climate in makes a lot of sense to build a quality bullpen, particularly with potential closers to replace Big Bob after next year - it’s a lot cheaper than getting starting pitching. I don’t like to see La Roche go but I also suspect he won’t maintain production levels like those of last year, in which case it is best to trade him while his value is high. My main concern is replacing A Jones -I will feel much better about the Braves when that is resolved.

By Canesqueezins

January 20, 2007 08:10 PM | Link to this

Just a thought, but Schuerholz may be dumping some salary in anticipation of doing what it takes, even with the low ceiling imposed upon them by Time-Warner. Andruw, a sometimes maddening but at other times a blazingly streaky hitter, can be had for less than market value, according to Andruw himself. It would be nice to stay set up the middle with McCann and Andruw for years to come - that is hoping one of the second bsse candidates steps forward in a consistent way. But after having my heart ripped out about 3 dozen times last year, I just cant conjure up the most remote objection to the 3 bullpen acquisitions, even at cost of losing Rochy. My guess is that Wickman will be traded early in the season, or as soon as Gonzalez and Soriano prove capable. Look forward to the season, Cox is still the manager.

By DrRusso

January 20, 2007 08:29 PM | Link to this

Wow I can not believe all that I am reading! I could not live farther from Atlanta (Portland Oregon-for those who wonder it is just to the left and up from Georgia) and I am surprised at all the flack that Bobbie Cox is receiving. If you want to see bad coaching just look at the Mariners (Seattle-Just up from Portland) or look at your own Hawks! Now there are some poorly ran teams. Just consider this for a moment, under the watch of JS and BC the Braves won an incredible 14 straight division championships. Think about what a feeling that would be if it were the Falcons. They lost in the NLCS games because they were constantly facing teams that were built just to beat the Braves. A year after words they were disassembled.

As I see this trade and the Soriano trade is that JS wants a team that can win in the post season. He will be able to effectly have two more innings to bat than most any other team. Consider how effective the starters will be knowing that they do not have to save any for the potential 7,8,9 innings. These two trades are monster trades for the Braves. As one who saw Soriano pitch for the Mariners, he was automatic, and he LIKED being the set up man!

In final comment, I have been a Brave fan since Eddie Matthews Joe Adcock, Warren Spahn, Lou Burdette, Del Crandell, Billy Burton, oh let’s not forget that guy Hank Aaron won the series in 57. Loved those old uniforms! I suffered through the years of 50 win seasons and relished the last 15 years of wins. I think this team will win 95 games this year. One other thought, if these pitchers were in the bull pen last year, the Braves would have had at least 15 more victories and at 94 wins (some over the hated Mets) most likely would have won their 15th straight title.

Enough with my rant, the “Doc” is out!

By MEB

January 20, 2007 08:39 PM | Link to this

Furman… please relax and let this move sink in. The Braves did what they had to do to improve the team. Your column reflects my exact feelings from the time the LaRoche rumor mill started. But after careful examination you and everyone else fretting about losing one or two of our own will see the light. The Braves are going to be a fascinating team to watch this year and I for one can’t wait for spring training to start.
GO BRAVES!!!

By Carroll

January 20, 2007 08:51 PM | Link to this

It seems to me that peeps who are against this trade, like Furman and “sick of JS” can only complain about it in terms of hypotheticals…”IF AJ leaves next year,” or “IF Chipper goes down,” OR “IF Gonzo turns out top be another Kolb,” OR “IF Laroche repeats what he did for 3 mos last year as opposed to doing what he’s done for the vast majority of his career,” OR “IF Thorman can’t cut it in the bigs”, and on and on and on. Jesus Christ people! IF The moon falls tommorrow then none of it will matter anyway, right? So should we just sit around and do nothing then?!!

You see… anything MAY look bad hypothetically…But the bullpen of last year was awful as a matter of CERTAINTY! Again, we COULD NOT go into another season just hoping that things would work out in the pen. JS did what he HAD to do, period end of story.

By Drew

January 20, 2007 09:08 PM | Link to this

once again i believe the braves have over-compensated…as you learned in driving school, this is a very bad thing. almost 100% of the time leads to a wreck. How could j.s. bring in 3 closers, granted with the stats we had last year i can see his mind set (29 out of 63 blown saves?) but come on. are 3 closers necessary? the last true first basemen we had was andres the giant and before that the crime dog. we had even been looking for a big bat in the middle of our lineup and once the perfect guy comes along he’s jettisoned into baseball doom in pittsburgh. i could understand trading laroche and some propects for a leadoff/outfielder but overloading the bullpen was nonsense. if i were the braves, i would’ve thrown some more money at laroche so he wouldnt leave! with andruw’s train already in the next town he’ll be earning gold gloves in, wouldnt it be nice to keep a 30HR threat so that we could still put up some runs in 08? schurholtz should go back and get his learner’s permit…but at least we have mike hampton

By jimmy

January 20, 2007 09:32 PM | Link to this

this Bisher guy is like 90 years old hes got no clue what hes talkin about

By TONY FROM LA

January 20, 2007 09:36 PM | Link to this

TO ALL THE FAIRWEATHER BRAVE FANS I REALLY FEEL SORRY FOR YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.WHEN IT CAME TO THE BASICS OF THE GAME ADAM WAS THE WORST I EVER SEEN.THE REASON WE DRAFT GUYS LIKE THORMAN IN THE FIRST ROUND IS TO ONE DAY WATCH THEM TAKE THE PLACE OF A LOSER LIKE LAROACH.LAST YEAR ALL I HEARD WAS HOW LOUSY OUR BULLPEN WAS NOW WE HAVE THREE STUDS AT THE END OF THE ROTATION.AS FOR GUYS LIKE GILES,LAROACH,ANDREW JONES, BETIMET THESE GUYS HAVE AS MANY WORLD SERIES RINGS AS I DO.YOU SEE THE BEST WAY TO BUILD A REAL CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM YOU HAVE TO GIVE UP THE PARTS OF THE PUZZLE THAT DONT FIT.AFTER SMOLTZ,HAMPTON,BOTH JONES BOYS ALONE WITH THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYER OF ALL TIME TIM HUDSON ALL GET THE HELL OFF THE PAYROLL WE WILL USE THAT MONEY TO PAY MCANN,FRENCHY AND JAMES NOW BRAVES FANS GET A CLUE HOW BASEBALL IS RUN.HAVE ANYBODY OUT THERE EVER HEARD OF THE FLORIDA MARLINS.THE GAME IS NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU SPEND BUT WHAT YOU BUY I LOVED THE BRAVES FOR 38 YEARS AND I WILL GO ON RECORD AS SAYING I HONESTLY FEEL WE ARE BACK IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENTION.

By Historian

January 20, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

Furman, I highly agree with your write up. The Braves have made a habit of developing future all stars, only to trade them away for little or nothing. Don’t worry about being wrong once. Back when you had your TV show of sports writers, I remember you saw a star before he became one. I don’t know if you remember, but you said a sophomore at Mississippi would be a star some day. That kid was Archie Manning, so I trust you know talent. I think we will all remember the La Roche trade in the future, and not with kind eyes.

By Ron Roberts

January 20, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

You only “end” the game in the 6th inning if your porous infield defense, injury-recovering rotation and now more suspect offense actually leave the bullpen to hold.

I’m with you on this one, Furman.

By Navigator

January 20, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

Yeah I read your negative remarks about La Roche, but remember that he carried the offense for the last three months of the season. Also Chipper Moneybags was still trying to remember how to win a game for the team. Jones number two is easily the highest paid .265 hitter in the history of the game. He may save a game or two with his defense, but he loses a lot more with his continual strike outs with men in scoring position.

By coach

January 20, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this

Why don’t the BRAVES EXECUTIVES cut their payroll instead of the teams? Why do they continue to raise ticket prices? Why are we still supporting a organization that does not want to win? I for one will not be renewing my season ticket package or going to any Braves games this year. MY personal boycott. They have already contacted me and I think they are hearing from us fans about our disatisfaction with the team operations.

By TLJ

January 20, 2007 11:14 PM | Link to this

At first I didn’t like the trade because I felt we should have gotten more for LaRoche. I wasn’t against trading him because I think Thorman will be able to replace him. After thinking about it I like the trade.
We have a good starting rotation, an excellent bullpen and the hitting will be more than adequate. I’m a little worried about the defense on the right side of the infield. Overall I’m excited about the team.

I saw an earlier post that stated that Gonzalez was a one year rental and the Braves wouldn’t be able to afford him after that. Actually Gonzalez and LaRoche were both rookies in 2004 meaning they both have 3 more years before they are free agents.

If the Braves couldn’t afford Gonzalez after this year there is no way they would be able to afford LaRoche. Think about it, Gonzalez will be a set up man this year and LaRoche will be a regular. If LaRoche has another good year his arb numbers would be out of the Braves reach.

The Braves are no longer a big market team, we are middle market and closer to a small market team than a big market team. In this capacity they have no choice but to trade some good young players before they become too expensive.

This was a good trade for the Braves and allows them to remain competitive.

By Greg O.

January 20, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this

Furman, you angry, senile, math deficient old man. While we can agree to disagree on whether something synonymous with your five minutes in the bathroom during summer nights (“one inning whizzes”) is more important than a first baseman, how can you possibly see the body of John Schuerholtz’s work this week as money driven? For your benefit, I’ll put it in math equation form - Gonzalez ($2.3 mil.) + Wilson ($2.0 mil) - LaRoche (your $3.0 mil figure) = Braves $1.3 mil. further into their payroll. JS obviously saw this route as most beneficial to the team on the field - not best for the Liberty Media wallet. You also make mention of Thorman’s .234 average as a rookie. Thorman also hit five home runs and drove in 14 runs. Please compare that with LaRoche’s numbers as a rookie. He hit .255 with 13 HR and 45 RBI. The difference? LaRoche had two and a half times more at bats. Give Thorman those ABs and multiply his HR and RBI numbers times 2.5 and they’re eerily similar to LaRoche’s first year. Give Thorman time, watch Gonzalez shut down the opposition for one inning at a time for a third of the season, and add in whatever you get out of Craig Wilson and, at the end of the 2007 regular season, try to tell me this group of deals doesn’t outweigh LaRoche’s contributions - assuming you have the time inbetween one inning Atlanta Braves playoff whizzes.

By Michael

January 21, 2007 12:02 AM | Link to this

With the Braves organization being so tight with the budget, it dooms the braves to ho-hum talent. The fact is that the good talent will seek teams that can afford their salary for more than one year. The Braves have the attitude that they cannot keep with teams like the Yankee’s, Boston, and now the Met’s

By Andrew

January 21, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

I love reading your articles Mr. Bisher, and I also like LaRoche, but we lost the division and wild card last year because we blew an astounding 29 games. Even if we had blown only 19, whic is not good either, we would have made the playoffs. LaRoche is a good player, but also remember earlier in the season when he made that ADD mistake at first base, everyone in Atlanta was out to get him. Another media case of “what have you done for me lately?” And remember “good pitching beats good hitting any day of the week.

By a braves guy

January 21, 2007 12:34 AM | Link to this

Bishop your an idiot, laroche was aweful when the braves needed him most, he gets his number the way klesko and chipper jones get theirs, when we are up 14-0 after we’re already 10 games off the pace, what did he do in the important when they dropped 15 in a row he made an error and hit probably for a .110 average, and we got a stud pitching I seem to remember that a certain teamin the 90s had stout pitching and virtually no offense, and they won a lot. Who was that team again?

By Ozzie Virgil

January 21, 2007 01:01 AM | Link to this

Can anyone recall a key situation with LaRoche coming up to bat and thinking to themselves “sweet, LaRoche is up, put this game in the bag?”

Point being, LaRoche is not the kind of difference maker that you look for at the corners these days, particularly given he sat against lefties.

By burt

January 21, 2007 01:18 AM | Link to this

furman, you are on the money. if the guy has a good year in 07,then he is gone in 08. but then any brave with a one contract that has a good year will sign elsewhere. why— more money. that is corporate baseball

By Robbi

January 21, 2007 01:35 AM | Link to this

Adam LaRoche will be greatly missed, not just on the field, but off as well. He was an awesome defensive first baseman and power hitter, an asset to our braves, but he was also a great guy who was always incredibly nice to his fans, especially us-LaRoche’s Ladies.

By Plate Appearance

January 21, 2007 02:33 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the honest and frank column Furman! You expressed my sentiments well — and I’m sure the sentiments of a bevy of other Atlanta fans.

I too really question the wisdom of this trade — and the Giles salary dump as well. It seems to me to be an overreaction to the loss of last year’s division title, irrespective of last years bullpen ills — and especially in light of the bullpen moves that JS had already made.

I’ve appreciated the work JS has done in the past. But I can’t go along with his logic on this one!

Can someone tell we fans if JS consults Bobby, the other coaches, and the players at all before making a decision like this? I really question if the other baseball minds within the Braves organization concur with this trade.

I wish someone would write a column on the “insider” dynamics of what goes on when a trade occurs with the Braves. Maybe you, Furman — or David O’Brien.

I’ve not read one quote from Bobby or the other players on the LaRoche trade. The silence is deafening — or should we say defining.

Here’s betting they feel like you do Furman, I do, and a multitude of other the fans do as well! They dislike losing LaRoche and Giles as much as many of us do!

And besides, where’s the loyalty to someone as solid as a performer as LaRoche (or Giles for that matter) — and to the fans who considered LaRoche and Giles as a “favorite” players?

I hate this revolving door trend in baseball where loyalty to one’s players is negligible. Winning and loyalty to team players can go hand in hand. Look at the Dodger teams of old.

It’s a shame. It’s a crying shame! But again, great column Furman! Thanks for sounding this clarion call! It certainly rings true!

By Bravesalways

January 21, 2007 02:53 AM | Link to this

I still go back to the 90’s. Great pitching but no hitting. They say great pitching outdoes great hitters. Well yes it does. But a great pitching team needs hitters too. The braves have never had both. Thus only one series title. Does that say something. To me it does. Big mistake saying goodby to LaRoche. Why cant we just one have them both. Pitching and hitting.