AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2006 > August > 09 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBraves left to look to next season
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Jeff Schultz
The Falcons are in training camp. College football teams are in camp. Even Maurice Clarett will soon be in camp, just as soon as Marion, Sing Sing and Attica complete their draft.
Maybe it’s time for the Braves to join the crowd. (Not Clarett’s crowd. He had something in his car the Braves’ bullpen has lacked all season: weapons.) Let’s just consider the rest of the season extended spring training. Hopeless, useless, fruitless thoughts that this team might be headed for a postseason should have ended Wednesday.
Assuming they didn’t end the week before.
Or in June.
Or back when John Schuerholz woke up in the middle of the night and thought, “Eureka! Oscar Villarreal!”
It’s practice time, folks. Extended spring training. Tryouts for next year. Same full ticket price.
On Wednesday, you could have gone to a day game, stretched out in one of several predominantly vacant sections, bought a $7 hotdog, sweated in a breeze-less, 127 degrees at Turner Field for six innings, then watched the bullpen turn a 3-1 lead into a 9-3 loss. Philadelphia scored eight runs in the seventh on six hits, four walks and an error off three relievers and two cyanide tablets.
Three times, manager Bobby Cox made the Verizon call to the bullpen.
Next season, in the interest of saving time, Cox will send the Verizon text message to the bullpen.
Eight runs in an inning?
“Who gives up eight runs in an inning?” Cox said. “Nobody.”
I’m not sure. But I think he just called the Braves nobodies.
The season’s not over. Yeah. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge.
Reality: It’s tryout time. Chuck James did his part to earn a look for next season. He threw 46 pitches in the first two innings and somehow didn’t collapse. He shut out the Phillies for five innings, and left after allowing only a solo homer through six with a 3-1 lead.
“I missed a lot of it,” James said later of the bullpen’s meltdown. “I was in the training room getting my arm iced.”
Lucky him.
The Braves finally get consecutive solid starts (after Tim Hudson’s rise from the rotation’s pallet of death the night before) and blow it. James struck out six. He didn’t walk anybody. Afterward, he uttered the obligatory playoff comments, but he acknowledged the rest of the season is about something else.
“Obviously I would love to win the wild card and all that,” he said. “But I’m just trying to make a good impression now so I have a job next year.
“A lot of the guys look at it that way. We’re battling for jobs, especially the young guys. We don’t have a guaranteed spot. I don’t know if just about anybody does.”
The Braves are now 23-30 at home (10-22 since June). The only guarantee that should come with is: price reduction.
Hello, I’m Tyler Yates — welcome to Shoney’s. Yates faced five batters. One got a hit. Three didn’t have to — they walked. That led to one run and Yates’ exit.
Out walked Cox, who unfortunately again was mandated by baseball rules that he pick somebody from his own bullpen.
Hello, I’m Macay McBride — paper or plastic? McBride quickly took the mystery out of things. He allowed a bases-clearing double to Chase Utley, making it 5-3. A fielder’s choice, a single and another run later, Cox summoned Chad Paronto, I think after Bobby Dews said he just didn’t feel up to it.
Hello, I’m Chad Paronto — are you gonna finish those fries? Paronto faced five batters. Three singled (one by a guy, Chris Roberson, who was pinch-hitting for the pitcher’s spot for the second time in the inning. That’s never a good sign.) Another walk, then an error when third baseman Willy Aybar failed to glove a routine grounder. (First thought: Betemit would’ve had it). Three more runs led to another change.
Wayne Franklin replaced Paronto. He struck out Shane Victorino with the bases loaded. He will be with the Yankees next season.
Sunday is another “Faith Day” at the stadium. OK. The Braves might just want to play out the schedule at the Western Wall.
When asked what he thought of the bullpen’s meltdown, James said: “Everybody’s had their bad days. I’ve definitely had a few.” Everybody has had a few this season. It’s time to start trying out for the next one.
Permalink | Comments (123) | Post your comment | Categories: Braves / MLB, Jeff Schultz
Comments
By Dawgs2006
August 9, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this
The nightmare continues. This will last for the next 10 years. The Atlanta Braves will not be able to overcome this and slip off the map like the Hawks. Too much uncertainty with ownership to rebuild. It was nice while it lasted.
By mark
August 9, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this
What a pathetic bunch. They suck! By the way Betemit had three hits including the game tying homer for the Dodgers last night. They won another one. Good luck in 10 years Braves!
By sniffer
August 9, 2006 09:22 PM | Link to this
It starts with the starters.
Always has for the Braves.
We have to have FIVE solid starters who eat innings and go out after 6-7 innnings after giving up 2-3 runs, 4 at most.
If you have starters who can do that, and that’s what the Braves always USED to have, you can have an average bullpen and good (not great) position players and always go to the playoffs.
So where are the starters coming from? Smoltzie has the grit, but the years are against him now. Hampton comes back but what will he be like? Ramirez? Davies? James? Hudson? … . get the right five who have good stuff, aren’t forever on the DL and have competitive fire, then we go back to the playoffs and have the luxury of griping about not getting to the World Series again.
If Ramirez, Davies and James are not high probabilities for solid starters, blow it up and make the moves to get a solid five starter rotation.
It has to start there.
By Sammie
August 9, 2006 10:09 PM | Link to this
After sitting out at Turner Field with my son today (trying to have that last bit of father/son time before school Monday), I am totally done with this bunch. I really am done with Cox too. If you know your bullpen is iffy at best, why take out the starter? It was only the 6th inning and he was looking O.K. After that 8 run inning, my son (who is 13) looked at me and said, “Dad, let’s go. I cannot stand to see them anymore.” Smart boy I have there.
By Azmi
August 9, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this
With the way that Betemit has been swinging out west I hope that we are able to resign Baez and Wickman or that deal did not make sense. Hated to see Betemit go but MY GOD did we need bullpen help. These past few series have been like a punch to the stomach.
Braves players never say die, but please just fade with grace and we will be back next year hopefully with a real bullpen.
By Mike R
August 9, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this
The Atlanta Royals strike again. Next season will be worse. Liberty will slice payroll and trade Andrew for some cheap low level prospects just like KC did with Beltran. I wish fans could join together and refuse to support any teams with a payroll of less than $95 million. Anything less than that shows the team cares nothing about winning.
By Steve
August 9, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this
The Braves just need to have about a ten game winning streak to counteract the 10 game losing streak and they are back in this thing. If not, they are history. But, what a great run it’s been!
By Todd A
August 9, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this
LOL Jeff.You crack me up somethin’ fierce.
By Greg
August 9, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this
There’s a lot to like about the offense and defense next year. Maybe Chipper will finally learn about stretching and flexibility training and avoid the DL, but this is a solid team.
It’s a lousy pitching staff. The only reliable pitcher is turning 40 and has an arm held together by faith. (The Braves should shut him down in September. Pitch him once a week.)
Tim Hudson has been the culprit this season. He’s the guy pitching for a job in Atlanta next year. There are no Lesters, Verlanders or Lirianos in our system. We won 14 years in a row, because of pitching. We no longer have that.
By Tyler
August 9, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this
Shut down Turner Field. Close the gates. This pathetic group of “professionals” isn’t worth the mud on the floor of the mens rooms. I’ve never seen a more hapless bunch of pathetic losers in my life. How many leads has this “bullpen” blown this year? Who ever told these guys that they could work with MEN. Each and every one of these “pitchers” should go hang their heads in shame somewhere. The fact that they are still given a uniform and a glove is sad testament to the downfall of what once was a great and respectable organization (even with all the playoff losses). How have they fallen so far so fast? Trade Andruw. We can come in last without him. Oh, yeah, and tell Tim Hudson to take his pathetic hanging slider back to the American League. He ain’t wanted here no more.
By bobbo
August 9, 2006 11:02 PM | Link to this
Why in order to be in our bullpen do you have to be so fat. Paronto,Yates,and mcbride dont even look like athletes out their they look like beer league softballers
By John
August 9, 2006 11:04 PM | Link to this
After the first week in April I saw this coming. There was weak pitching from starters and the pen last year and management did nothing over the winter to help this. Good pitchers must have the instinct to kill , but this was not cultivated or demanded. There is little hope with the current cast and it will not change until the ownership is changed and resourses are brought in.
By jed
August 9, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this
I was optimistic about our chances to win the wild card. Then, Ramirez goes down for the season, and I knew it was over. Today’s 8-run inning was the sound of the bell tolling.
By Roger
August 9, 2006 11:21 PM | Link to this
Who do you audition that’s not already up here getting a chance? That’s part of the problem: the upper minors are exhausted. There’s Lerew, who’s trying to get his confidence back after the AAA coaches messed up his mechanics. There’s Salty, who needs the season in AA and is blocked by McCann anyway. Then it’s scrubs like JS Jr. Maybe this year the AAA scrubs get to fill the roster all the way to 40 in September, but that’s about it.
I must admit though that I’m already looking ahead to that probable top 10 draft pick. After 14 years we really need it.
By Grandmother Fan
August 10, 2006 12:00 AM | Link to this
I’M sick and disappointed on these “fair weather” fans. We have had 14 years of wonderful winning teams. It could not last particularly when we could not offer the money other teams did. How many other teams have had our success? How many other teams have had many more than one bad season? I was there when my grandson and I felt like we had a whole section to ourselves. We came to see a ball game win or lose. Mostly lose back then but we knew it would get better and it did. It will get better again. You whinners are shameful and a discredit to fans who love baseball.
By ronald
August 10, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this
Roger McDowell has got to go. It is obvious that, even though we do not have many good pitchers, the ones we have are simply not being coached.
By Clyde
August 10, 2006 12:38 AM | Link to this
It makes me mad seeing Furcal and Betemit leading the Dodgers to a possible wild card birth while we sit here stuck.
FIRE BILLY AND WOODY
By burt
August 10, 2006 01:49 AM | Link to this
let’s root for the dodgers. hell, that where our players are. grady and our guys are gonna get in done in LA.
By sam
August 10, 2006 02:04 AM | Link to this
I thought Cox did the right thing when he removed James after 6 innings but was surprised he did not go with Ray in the 7th inning. Let’s face it, the braves have the worst pitching they have had in 15-20 years. I do think McDowell has contributed to the demise of the pitching staff. He is overwhelmed by the many problems-injuries, lack of control, inconsistency, inexperience, etc.
I do think Cox should let go and that Ned Yost should replace him as manager. An experienced manager [if Cox steps down] is needed to help rebuild this team. One also has to wonder about conditioning with all the injuries!
By Sarah
August 10, 2006 02:09 AM | Link to this
I think it best that the Braves do not make the post season, as they would just embarass themselves by not having the required quality starting pitching or the winning mentality to make it past the first few games. I love the Braves, I really do, but this year’s just not your year, boys. They’ve found their closer, and lets hope they keep him. They’ve found out that Renteria was a great pick up in the off season. They’ve found out that Brian McCann, unlike his roommate, is very consistant offensively. They’ve found out that Marcus Giles can still hit, just not in the lead-off spot, and finally that they need starting pitching (boy isn’t that the understatement of the year). So, with all we’ve learned, we’ll call this 2006 campaign a learning process for a fabulous 2007 and beyond run of division titles. Okay, lets just make the playoffs next year and don’t make this year’s run a habbit and we’ll call it even.
By Dave in AZ
August 10, 2006 02:16 AM | Link to this
Yeah, we all love losing granny. Rah rah rah. Is that better?
On the other hand Grady Little benched Betemit and blew the LA winning streak.
By Reality
August 10, 2006 02:29 AM | Link to this
We just need to start from scratch …. Trade the relievers for a pack of hot dogs. Trade the starters for some cold beer. Trade the everyday lineup for some chips. Trade the bench for some condiments. Trade the management for ….. I forgot, they are not worth a plug nickle. Take all of you newly acquired supplies, go find a big screen TV at the local dive, pull up a chair and enjoy the playoffs in September. That is the closest the Braves will be to the playoffs for a good little while. Get your head out of the sand and wake up. The Atlanta sports teams just SUCK. And so do their fans.
By sam
August 10, 2006 02:31 AM | Link to this
We can make do with the position players if we can keep them. It is the pitching that has to have a complete make over that is the problem!! Again, we need a pitching coach with lots of experience at the major league level to work with our pitchers. This is not an on-the-job training position.
By bill
August 10, 2006 05:39 AM | Link to this
Grandma, it appears that you are one of the few true baseball fans in this blog…the negative bunch obviously have no clue. Where have you people been for the past 15 years? Bobby Cox is the problem…give me a break. You are talking about one of the greatest managers in the history of the game, if you believe the players and other managers in the game (but what do they know?). It is true that this team has been extremely fortunate to have the pitching they have had in the past, but the team’s relative health over the 14 year run was as big a factor as the talent of the players. Don’t you understand the impact of the Disabled List on a team? Surely you have enough baseball sense to understand that you have to keep your best players on the field to have a chance at winning? Is that such a difficult concept to grasp? Grandma, you are my kind of fan…thanks for sharing. Bill
By Spring Training
August 10, 2006 06:50 AM | Link to this
The easy Spring Training that the Braves players talk so much about should be a red flag to any fan. Has anyone else noticed how fat that many of the Braves players are? A baseball player should not have a fat face or gut and many of the Braves do. Spring Training is also where a pitcher learns how to cover first base <—— The Braves have lost quite a few games this year because one of the fatasses haven’t covered. One more thing….The 2006 Braves are lazy! Bobby Cox should take a player out of the game for not running out ground balls. This is another reason the Braves have lost so many games this year. THEY DON’T HUSTLE! This team pisses me off more than any of the Braves teams in the 80’s. When will those knucleheads stop talking about being the wild card team. They must be stupid too.
By Spring Training
August 10, 2006 06:51 AM | Link to this
The easy Spring Training that the Braves players talk so much about should be a red flag to any fan. Has anyone else noticed how fat that many of the Braves players are? A baseball player should not have a fat face or gut and many of the Braves do. Spring Training is also where a pitcher learns how to cover first base <—— The Braves have lost quite a few games this year because one of the fatasses haven’t covered. One more thing….The 2006 Braves are lazy! Bobby Cox should take a player out of the game for not running out ground balls. This is another reason the Braves have lost so many games this year. THEY DON’T HUSTLE! This team pisses me off more than any of the Braves teams in the 80’s. When will those knucleheads stop talking about being the wild card team. They must be stupid too.
By PoliticalMan
August 10, 2006 06:56 AM | Link to this
Amazingly the “fair weather fans” commentators are still with us. To them: One can realistically assess the current Braves and still be well aware of their record over the last 15 yrs.
The demise of the Braves has been well on the way for the last two yrs. I’ve said it before and will again, the Braves have been in a div where the teams are notorious for shooting themselves in the foot and most still are. The Mets are now so fully loaded (they could use more pitching), that the Braves will be looking up for several years. Not to mention several of the teams ahead of them in the wild-card chase.
It was very obvious early on that the Braves were in trouble this yr. They had a dime-a-dozen bullpen; their starters were hurt, untested, or old. Their outfielders are great in the field, but can’t put the ball in play when it counts. Their OBPs are terrible. They almost destroyed Giles. Chipper Jones is his usual fat, cocky self. The only thing lacking is a Strawberry statement about being the straw that stirs the drink. LaRoche is an enigma. McCann is the one bright spot on the team. Renteria is good but lacks some of Furcal’s game deciding ability. This is a division contending team?
For all the faithful, the Braves are now a bad team. And that is not going to change anytime soon. So just keep on cheering and knocking anyone who can make realistic assessments.
By just4fun
August 10, 2006 07:42 AM | Link to this
Sam, I agree with you about the conditioning program the Braves’ players go through in the spring … get up, shower, eat a big breakfast and head for the golf course for a day of golf or maybe pick-up the fishing gear and head out for a day of fishing while the minor league boys sweat out the baseball part of training. Cox is loved by all of his players because of this … wouldn’t you be? His theory of saving them is what hurts them during the hot summer season … they simply are in poor condition and therefore are always going on the DL. And one more thing regarding the pathetic bullpen … if you are unsure of the guy you are bringing in, have somebody else warming up and ready to replace him if he can’t throw anything near the plate, don’t leave him out there until he walks home a run before you yank him! Another of “Mr. Cox” favorites is to pull the starter even if he is still doing good after six innings … why???? I know … yeah you’re the greatest manager ever in the history of baseball!!@ Yeah, sure you are!
By just4fun
August 10, 2006 07:44 AM | Link to this
Sam, I agree with you about the conditioning program the Braves’ players go through in the spring … get up, shower, eat a big breakfast and head for the golf course for a day of golf or maybe pick-up the fishing gear and head out for a day of fishing while the minor league boys sweat out the baseball part of training. Cox is loved by all of his players because of this … wouldn’t you be? His theory of saving them is what hurts them during the hot summer season … they simply are in poor condition and therefore are always going on the DL. And one more thing regarding the pathetic bullpen … if you are unsure of the guy you are bringing in, have somebody else warming up and ready to replace him if he can’t throw anything near the plate, don’t leave him out there until he walks home a run before you yank him! Another of “Mr. Cox” favorites is to pull the starter even if he is still doing good after six innings … why???? I know … yeah you’re the greatest manager ever in the history of baseball!!@ Yeah, sure you are!
By mart
August 10, 2006 08:11 AM | Link to this
The Braves starter goes 6 innings and only gives up 1 run. Why not let him go 9 innings? Cox continues to cost the Braves wins by pulling the starter too early. Although the Braves haven’t had a decent bullpen in 16 years (mild exaggeration), Cox insists on using it. [The Braves starter looks great, that must mean it’s time to put in Liebrandt.]
By KC
August 10, 2006 08:37 AM | Link to this
mart:
Chuck James had thrown 105 pitches when Bobby took him out. And besides the pitch count, BC, Roger McDowell, and other in that Atlanta dugout have been around long enough to know when a guy’s starting to wear down.
Besides, if you look at the ERA’s of the Braves middle relievers before last nights game… you’ll see that Bobby had no reason to expect the bullpen collapse last night. All of the players that coughed up runs last night had been pitching quite well for the Braves.
Chuck James was out of gas, and BC felt he had the arms in the bullpen to get the job done… simple as that.
By Mario
August 10, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this
This Brave team lack the one thing that all the major league team need to win. The interest of a owner to bring good player and pay what is needed to win. While this ownership just think about how they are going to save money with the sale of the Brave the new owners are the same way. If the brave dont have a owner like Mr. Turner that put his money where his mouth was the brave will have a long road before they will be back in the playoff. Alao they need to have desired and heart to win by accept a defeat and say tommorow is another day and be back and make the same mistake.They have a bunch of young players but the Braves need new blood in the manager dept and someone as a owner the want to win
By Mario
August 10, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this
This Brave team lack the one thing that all the major league team need to win. The interest of a owner to bring good player and pay what is needed to win. While this ownership just think about how they are going to save money with the sale of the Brave the new owners are the same way. If the brave dont have a owner like Mr. Turner that put his money where his mouth was the brave will have a long road before they will be back in the playoff. Also they need to have desired and heart to win by accept a defeat and say tommorow is another day and be back and make the same mistake.They have a bunch of young players but the Braves need new blood in the manager dept and someone as a owner the want to win
By Gota love em
August 10, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this
When the entire bullpen less the closer makes less then 3 million, well you get what you pay for. Every team in baseball depends on pitching. We have no starters or relievers. Oh we finnaly have a closer who we never get to though. WOW I am impressed.
I agree with a fellow poster. I am done with them also. Not as a fan but in general. I just cant stomach the torture any longer. Its to much to ask from braves fans. We are waiting for the team to emplode and they never dissapoint do they?
By Tony
August 10, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this
To political man, There is absolutely nothing wrong with our lineup. Sorry, I take that back, we could use a speedy leadoff hitter. We have 3 guys with averages above .300. One of those being the fat, cocky Chipper as you say. Renteria is far better than Furcal was and ever will be. The only thing I miss about Furcal is his speed and watching him sling balls into the 15th row on a routine ground ball. You say you are not a fair weather fan, but as soon as the going gets tough, you start bashing the team in every way. This is a good team with a lot of young talent. I am unsure of the number of blown saves we have had, but I could GUARANTEE that if we converted half (not much to ask for) of the blown saves, that we would be competing with the Mets right now. What does that tell you? Our weakness is in our bullpen. Our starters have had injuries all year, so I will let them slide this year. Stay on the wagon and support your team through thick and thin. If not, start rooting for the Tigers, or Chi Sox, or someone else please. For everyone else who says that Cox is the problem, Are you frieking kidding me? Learn the damn game. CJ had thrown over 100 pitches. He could have very easily told Bobby that he was tired. I think Cox knows a little more about the game than any of us do.
By Knockahoma
August 10, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this
Sorry folks, park’s closed
The frustration of the 06’ season is actually the cumulative frustration of the past 8 seasons starting in 1999 when the Braves got swept in the WS. Since that time, Cox has let the rope out further for his everyday players and JS has been slower to act with trades and less effective when he does. 06’ represents the cumulative effect of a team with no discipline. The guys today are still riding the benefits of the 90’s success yet most have done nothing to earn anything. It is past time to shake things up. First, Cox must go and a new manager must emerge that can strike fire in his players and enforce a no performance/no play policy. If we are going to rebuild this team, the attitude must be rebuilt as well.
MLB needs a complete overhaul with the Players Union deal. Owners should have held out in 1994 for nothing less than what the NFL has- no contract guaranteed for more than a year. The NFL is largely successful because teams never get saddled paying ineffective players for years and can use that money on better players. Imagine if the Braves could drop any contracts at season’s end. My guess is that Hampton, Hudson, Chipper, Thompson, Reitsma, and pretty much the entire mid-relief staff would be gone. That would leave the Braves with $35-40M to rebuild. Instead, the team and fans will be forced to suffer for years watching these old inneffective players ride out their fat contracts. Attendance figures at Turner Field should be very interesting the next few years.
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this
Time to Get Younger, Cheaper, Better
It’s time to start scouting young players to acquire in Andruw Jones and Marcus Giles trades. We need to increase our quantity of good players and our payroll flexibility and decrease our age and payroll. Schuerholz needs to look at Terry Ryan and the Twins as an example. They traded A.J. Pierzynski for Joe Nathan and Francisco Liriano…A.J. Pierzynski! Imagine what we could get for Jones and Giles.
By Empty Blue Seats
August 10, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this
Here is the latest Braves promotion to get fans down to Turner Field. It is the Costco promotion.
Braves fans- come to any game during the remainder of the season and take your whole Section. That’s right, you get a whole Section of seats for yourself. For just $100, you will get a minimum of 350 seats and we will throw in a free footlong hotdog and supersized soda. This is your best chance to get a foulball as you own anything that falls into your Section! Act now as Sections are going fast.
By Justin
August 10, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this
Some of the comments here are correct, and then there are some of you that have failed to appreciate the scope of what this organization has done. Yes, this is quite possibly the worst bullpen in history and yes, they may be better off putting the first 7 or 8 fans in the stadium in the bullpen, but no one can dispute that injuries have destroyed this season. That may be due to poor conditioning, but it is also bad luck. The thing to do now is to build a new bullpen around Baez, possibly Villareal, even keeping McBride (everyone needs a lefty). The talent on this team is there, but we all know the need exists to pick up another starter (Garcia, Armas, maybe Vazquez). Get Francoeur into winter ball to explore the option of taking pitches from time to time. Don’t anyone bury this team for years to come. And don’t do in Bobby Cox. How would you all feel if you had to pick a reliever out of that pen? How do you decide whether to get hit by a bus or a freight train? Hang in there Braves and things will improve…
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this
Time to Get Younger, Cheaper, Better
It’s time to start scouting young players to acquire in Andruw Jones and Marcus Giles trades. We need to increase our quantity of good players and our payroll flexibility and decrease our age and payroll. Schuerholz needs to look at Terry Ryan and the Twins as an example. They traded A.J. Pierzynski for Joe Nathan and Francisco Liriano…A.J. Pierzynski! Imagine what we could get for Jones and Giles.
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this
Time to Get Younger, Cheaper, Better
It’s time to start scouting young players to acquire in Andruw Jones and Marcus Giles trades. We need to increase our quantity of good players and our payroll flexibility and decrease our age and payroll. Schuerholz needs to look at Terry Ryan and the Twins as an example. They traded A.J. Pierzynski for Joe Nathan and Francisco Liriano…A.J. Pierzynski! Imagine what we could get for Jones and Giles.
By Wes
August 10, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this
This season ended for the Braves last year when the club lost their catalyst…Furcal.Second half of last year Furcal was consistancy on base for the Jones boys to drive him in.Giles is not a lead off hitter and by having him there has hurt the team and Giles.I totally agree that the braves players are the worst conditioned team in baseball.Sore arms,pulled hamstrings,bad backs and plain old laziness..because of Cox’s attitude of sit back,have a beer and rest those muscles on DL and in 15 days you’ll be good as new.Betemit should have been the second baseman and led off.Losing him really hurts.Also, Ray instead of the three fat belly zannies in middle relief of yesterdays game.Question…how does Florida keep developing the top notch young players on their payroll.Management maybe.Yes and McDowell sucks as a pitching coach but then again what does he have to work with thanks to the brillance of the GM.Tired of hearing how great Mr S and Mr C are.
By Dave from Chattanooga
August 10, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this
The same thing that happened to Terry Forster in the mid 80s has happened to the entire bullpen staff … “It just kinda’ SNACKED up on me.”
By KC
August 10, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this
OKAY, SLOW DOWN FOLKS!!!
Many of you believe that all hope is gone for this season… and I agree with you. However, now that this season is lost, we’re starting to hear the inevitable cries of “STRIP EM’ DOWN AND REBUILD!” or “FIRE BOBBY COX!”…. but hold your horses people! The reality is that while every Braves fan (and probably every Braves player and coach) is ready to forget the 2006 season ever happened, things are looking very good for a World Series run in 07’! Our hopes start with what has a chance to be the best rotation in baseball next season. Smoltzy may be getting old, but it sure ain’t showin’. He is the most prolific post-season pitcher in the history of baseball, and if you have one big game that you need to win, Smoltz is still the guy you want on the mound. HUDDY… Most of the people that don’t have any faith at all in Huddy seem to think that he’s stunk ever since he arrived in ATL. That’s just absolutely untrue. Despite playing hurt much of the year, he still posted an ERA of 3.52 (that’s the same ERA that Smoltz and C.Zambrano have posted so far this year, and I don’t hearing anybody claiming that those two guys suck). Hudson finished with 14 wins, but with even an average bullpen behind him, that would have easily finished with at least 18 wins. He pitched quite well last season, and in fact was throwing the ball fairly well this year right on up until 8 weeks ago. His last start was outstanding, so we’re talking 7 bad weeks VS. 7 great years. He’s only 30 years old, and his stuff is still as great as ever. Anyway, my point is that I think there’s every reason to expect good numbers out of Huddy next season. Of course, Mike Hampton will be back in the rotation as well. Come March, he will have had the full recommended 18 month recovery time that doctors say you need to completely recover for Tommy John surgery, and his rehab is already going quite well. Getting him back will be essentially the same as signing a #1-caliber free agent starter over the winter. HoRam was outstanding in 10 of his 13 starts after coming off the DL back in May. His ERA in those 10 starts was under 2.00. He’ll make one hell of a 4th starter next year. And then we’ve got two good young arms, Chuck James and Kyle Davies, battling it out for the 5 spot in that rotation. 6 starters for 5 slots… nice problem to have. As far as the bullpen’s concerned… I know there’s talk of Wickman retiring, but I seriously doubt it. My feeling is that he’ll be back in a Braves uniform. Blaine Boyer and John Foster will both return next year, and I’m sure JS will make another trade/free-agent signing or two to strengthen the pen. I think JS will refuse to sleep this winter until he’s sure that the bullpen won’t suffer the same fate as this bullpen did in ‘06’. As far as the lineup is concerned, we’ve already go 5 all-stars, not including LaRoche, Francoeur, and Thorman/Diaz. That’s a potent offense… especially if we can keep Chipper healthy for at least 130 games or so next year. This ball club has the talent to make a very real World Series run next year. Anyone who thinks we should break this team up… with all due love and respect, YOU’RE NUTS!
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this
Time to Get Younger, Cheaper, Better
It’s time to start scouting young players to acquire in Andruw Jones and Marcus Giles trades. We need to increase our quantity of good players and our payroll flexibility and decrease our age and payroll. Schuerholz needs to look at Terry Ryan and the Twins as an example. They traded A.J. Pierzynski for Joe Nathan and Francisco Liriano…A.J. Pierzynski! Imagine what we could get for Jones and Giles.
By SRF
August 10, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this
This season is over - time for next year.
I think that since Chipper has seemed to have a nagging injury all year - he should just shut it down for the rest of this year and do some serious physical therapy / treatments to clear up his injuries and get strong for next year. He has time now and the team will not miss him, they will find a way to lose with or without him. I say they should call up some (more) kids and give them some playing time.
By KC
August 10, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this
*(Sorry… Ialready posted this once, but didn’t mean for it all to run together… too hard to read):
OKAY, SLOW DOWN FOLKS!!!
Many of you believe that all hope is gone for this season… and I agree with you. However, now that this season is lost, we’re starting to hear the inevitable cries of “STRIP EM’ DOWN AND REBUILD!” or “FIRE BOBBY COX!”…. but hold your horses people! The reality is that while every Braves fan (and probably every Braves player and coach) is ready to forget the 2006 season ever happened, things are looking very good for a World Series run in 07’!
Our hopes start with what has a chance to be the best rotation in baseball next season.
Smoltzy may be getting old, but it sure ain’t showin’. He is the most prolific post-season pitcher in the history of baseball, and if you have one big game that you need to win, Smoltz is still the guy you want on the mound.
HUDDY… Most of the people that don’t have any faith at all in Huddy seem to think that he’s stunk ever since he arrived in ATL. That’s just absolutely untrue. Despite playing hurt much of the year, he still posted an ERA of 3.52 (that’s the same ERA that Smoltz and C.Zambrano have posted so far this year, and I don’t hearing anybody claiming that those two guys suck). Hudson finished with 14 wins, but with even an average bullpen behind him, that would have easily finished with at least 18 wins. He pitched quite well last season, and in fact was throwing the ball fairly well this year right on up until 8 weeks ago. His last start was outstanding, so we’re talking 7 bad weeks VS. 7 great years. He’s only 30 years old, and his stuff is still as great as ever. Anyway, my point is that I think there’s every reason to expect good numbers out of Huddy next season.
Of course, Mike Hampton will be back in the rotation as well. Come March, he will have had the full recommended 18 month recovery time that doctors say you need to completely recover for Tommy John surgery, and his rehab is already going quite well. Getting him back will be essentially the same as signing a #1-caliber free agent starter over the winter.
HoRam was outstanding in 10 of his 13 starts after coming off the DL back in May. His ERA in those 10 starts was under 2.00. He’ll make one hell of a 4th starter next year. And then we’ve got two good young arms, Chuck James and Kyle Davies, battling it out for the 5 spot in that rotation. 6 starters for 5 slots… nice problem to have.
As far as the bullpen’s concerned… I know there’s talk of Wickman retiring, but I seriously doubt it. My feeling is that he’ll be back in a Braves uniform. Blaine Boyer and John Foster will both return next year, and I’m sure JS will make another trade/free-agent signing or two to strengthen the pen. I think JS will refuse to sleep this winter until he’s sure that the bullpen won’t suffer the same fate as this bullpen did in ‘06’.
As far as the lineup is concerned, we’ve already got 5 all-stars in this order, not including LaRoche, Francoeur, and Thorman/Diaz. That’s a potent offense… especially if we can keep Chipper healthy for at least 130 games or so next year.
This ball club has the talent to make a very real World Series run next year. Anyone who thinks we should break this team up… with all due love and respect, YOU’RE NUTS!
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this
Time to Get Younger, Cheaper, Better
It’s time to start scouting young players to acquire in Andruw Jones and Marcus Giles trades. We need to increase our quantity of good players and our payroll flexibility and decrease our age and payroll. Schuerholz needs to look at Terry Ryan and the Twins as an example. They traded A.J. Pierzynski for Joe Nathan and Francisco Liriano…A.J. Pierzynski! Imagine what we could get for Jones and Giles.
By Paul Hamilton
August 10, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this
Mike R,
“I wish fans could join together and refuse to support any teams with a payroll of less than $95 million. Anything less than that shows the team cares nothing about winning.” Mike why don’t you try table tennis for a hobby instead of obsessing over the Braves. Only one team since 2001 had a payroll over 95 million and won the series. I’m sorry but all you whiners over the payroll need to check the books. Throw out the Yankees dominance and it really shows that the mid to high mid range teams have been doing quite well. If it makes you feel better to blame the Braves failures on its payroll then go ahead, but this team hasn’t performed all year long plain and simple.
2001 Diamondbacks 85 million
2002 Angels 62 million
2003 Marlins 48 million
2004 Red Sox 127 million
2005 White Sox 75 million
By ronald
August 10, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
KC, As for your remark about McDowell having been around long enough to know when a guy is out of gas, McDowell doesn’t know anything. If anything can be known it is that hiring McDowell is one of the worst moves the braves have made in recent years. Don’t take my word for it. Don’t ask the guys on the broadcast team who spout the company line. Just check out the era of the teams he coached in the minor leagues before he came to Atlanta. What in the world was management looking at when they hired him. Have you seen what Sosa is doing with the Cards? The worst thing about the injuries to the pitching staff is not that the injured pitchers haven’t been available this season or have missed part of this season. The worst thing about it is that management will take that into account and give McDowell another year. We go out and hire a pitching coach whose minor league teams had eras higher than a kite. Make sense of that to me.
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this
The payroll excuse only goes so far. Look at what Oakland and Minnesota have been able to accomplish. Sure they haven’t won in the post-season, but post-season success is largely luck.
By ronald
August 10, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this
KC, As for your remark about McDowell having been around long enough to know when a guy is out of gas, McDowell doesn’t know anything. If anything can be known it is that hiring McDowell is one of the worst moves the braves have made in recent years. Don’t take my word for it. Don’t ask the guys on the broadcast team who spout the company line. Just check out the era of the teams he coached in the minor leagues before he came to Atlanta. What in the world was management looking at when they hired him. Have you seen what Sosa is doing with the Cards? The worst thing about the injuries to the pitching staff is not that the injured pitchers haven’t been available this season or have missed part of this season. The worst thing about it is that management will take that into account and give McDowell another year. We go out and hire a pitching coach whose minor league teams had eras higher than a kite. Make sense of that to me.
By Jeff
August 10, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this
Solid, funny,true piece of writing, Jeff.
This team needs to not only free up budget money but expand the payroll for 2007. Atlanta may not be the market NYC or Boston is, but it’s large enough to merit a bigger investment from the Braves’ corporate masters.
Hey, Braves fans, if Liberty Media or whoever doesn’t cough up more dough in the off-season, they should hear from all of us. Time we take back the Braves!
By ronald
August 10, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this
KC, As for your remark about McDowell having been around long enough to know when a guy is out of gas, McDowell doesn’t know anything. If anything can be known it is that hiring McDowell is one of the worst moves the braves have made in recent years. Don’t take my word for it. Don’t ask the guys on the broadcast team who spout the company line. Just check out the era of the teams he coached in the minor leagues before he came to Atlanta. What in the world was management looking at when they hired him. Have you seen what Sosa is doing with the Cards? The worst thing about the injuries to the pitching staff is not that the injured pitchers haven’t been available this season or have missed part of this season. The worst thing about it is that management will take that into account and give McDowell another year. We go out and hire a pitching coach whose minor league teams had eras higher than a kite. Make sense of that to me.
By Gene
August 10, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
After attending about a third of home games in 1966 and 1967 as a student at GSU. I remember a cold night in Sept. ‘67 when there were less than a thousand people in the stands. My interest declined in ‘68. After a trip to Vietnam, I paid no attention to them—even in the short run under Joe Torre in the early 80’s. In 1966, admission was one dollar. I don’t know how much hot dogs were back then because I brought my own from the Varsity along with a jug of draft beer. The seven dollar hot dogs Jeff mentioned do not compare to a Varsity chili dog. However, things changed in 1991, and ‘91 and 92 will remain a great sports memory along with the Olympics. Jeff is correct in that Atlanta fans will not support a sorry baseball team. I still think that a major part of the problem is the lack of leadership at the owner level. Ted Turner is not coming back, but I would even accept Arthur Blank at this point. He can push Chipper around in a wheelchair and sit in the dugout as long as he leaves the mechanics to Bobby. The Braves have a good farm system. Under a decent owner with a big checkbook they can come back. Otherwise we can write them off.
By don
August 10, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
I just saw the future at Charleston WV when I saw Elvis Andrus (17), Eric Campbell (third base power hitter), Beau Jones (19), Quinton Davis (very fast), and a couple of other excellent prospects play for Rome. Throw in JoJo Reyes (Myrtle Beach), Matt Harrison, Jarrod Saltalamacchia (He’ll be fine), and Anthony Lerew (Mississippi) and a few others and there is hope if we give them a chance. I hesitate to mention them by name because Schuerholz will probably trade them for another two month has been (or never was)rent a player.
By Knockahoma
August 10, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
KC- While your points were all well thought out and properly communicated, I must disagree with your logic. This team is not a tweak or two away from the postseason more or less a WS. The 07’ season will start and end with quality pitching. Our top three starters will include Smoltz(who will be 40 next year), Hudson(who hasn’t proven to be as effective in the NL as he was in the AL), and Hampton(who is old and coming off surgery). We need to get younger not older. If Vegas were handicapping total wins by these three starters, the over/under would be 25. My guess is that Smoltz will spend some time on the DL next year and Hampton may not get out of Spring training. Beyond these guys, we have average young starters- nobody special. Then comes the issue of bullpen. Wickman is said to be retiring and Baez will likely want $6-8M/year which the Braves won’t pay. That means we are literally starting over to staff the entire bullpen. Knowing JS and BC, Reitsma will be given another chance as the closer. Regarding position players, we are strong at CF, RF, SS, & C. The rest of the position players are average to above average. LaRoche has shown some promise but is yet to prove consistent across a season. Chipper is good for the DL at least twice a year and his replacement Aybar is a defensive nightmare. Langerhans can play defense but can’t hit. Diaz can hit but can’t catch. Giles may be released which means more of the Aybar follies. Regarding Cox, he is an excellent regular season manager but is 11-18(.379) in WS games. Not all was his fault but he continues to make regular season moves in postseason situations. If the Braves simply want top win another division, Cox is your guy. If the Braves goal is to win another WS title, move Cox back to the front office and bring on a new manager to fire up this new team. The players and coaches have all grown lax under Cox’s management and that must change.
By KC
August 10, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
ronald:
Leo M. has been largely regarded as the best pitching coach in the game… but take a look at the Oriols team ERA this year. You’re assigning way too much credit/blame to a pitching coach. It all comes down to the guy on the mound. He’s still got to perform… bot matter what the coaches are telling him.
By Louis Vales
August 10, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
The “greatest Manager In Baseball History”—-Did I actually read that earlier in this blog. My Last Post You Guys Are Morons—So Listen To Last Words Ever On this Forum From Me——The a “Great Manager” would NOT have one World Series Championship in 14!!!!!! chances. And Don’t Tell Me He Got There—-He got there because the division was ac radle of MEDIOCRITY. Now to put it in terms you can understand if The University of Georgia won the next 14!!!! SEc Eastern Divisions and lost 13!!!!! of the next 14!!!!!! SEC Title Games would you be happy—assuming you’re a Georgia fan—or would you be aggravated?? I believe you would be aggravated and with justification. So don’t let these bottom kissers—Whoever they are—tell you you should be grateful that you Got There!! Maybe that would be true if you had won a division composed of the Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals and A’s—BUT—Big But!!!!These last 10 titles came in a division composed of 2 teams who did not spend money, a miserablly run Mets team and a good??Phillies team TRANSLATED—The Braves Dominated The Phillies for the last 10 years—WOW—Greatest Manager in History. Would be like winning the Big East in football and then getting blown out in a BCS Playoff—assuming they had one. By the way the bankrupt expansion team in the East has won more World Series than The Atlanta/Milwaukee Braves have won in their history—and that was done in last 10 years.Great Manager—My Butt!!!
By DAVID
August 10, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this
after reading these comments, i know im the minority here, but i think this team has a chance to bounce back next year. yes, i have written off this season, yes i see what betemit and furcal are doing in la and wish we still had them, but we dont. let’s look at the positives…there is no way hudson can have another season like he has this year, look for him to bounce back. smoltz will be smoltz, i pray that hampton will be able to give us another good arm in that rotation next year. with ramirez, james, and davies, we have some good young arms to pick up the slack. if chipper can stay healthy, and this aybar kid works out, the line-up should be decent with franceour, laroache and mccann all proving to be valuable pieces this year. one more bat in the line-up would be nice, maybe a power hitting right fielder. wickman and baez can hopefully shore up that pathetic bullpen next year, we just need some consistancy out of there. as sad as it is to write off this season, i am looking forward to next season with high hopes. in closing would somebody who cares please buy this team so we dont have to be payroll strapped anymore? they need ownership that loves the game and is excited about making the team better, not just a bunch of corporate businessmen who only care about the bottom line.
By michael
August 10, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this
McDowell has to go. I don’t know what kind of snow job he sold to JS but it worked. By the way Sosa is pitching good for the Redbirds. Yates, Paronto, and McBride has no business in the majors. But the bottom line is the McBride has to go. If he was so good the Dodgers would have kept him in there minor league system. Fire him today.
Michael
By michael
August 10, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this
McDowell has to go. I don’t know what kind of snow job he sold to JS but it worked. By the way Sosa is pitching good for the Redbirds. Yates, Paronto, and McBride has no business in the majors. But the bottom line is the McBride has to go. If he was so good the Dodgers would have kept him in there minor league system. Fire him today.
Michael
By michael
August 10, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this
McDowell has to go. I don’t know what kind of snow job he sold to JS but it worked. By the way Sosa is pitching good for the Redbirds. Yates, Paronto, and McBride has no business in the majors. But the bottom line is the McBride has to go. If he was so good the Dodgers would have kept him in there minor league system. Fire him today.
Michael
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this
No City Will Support a Sorry Baseball Team
Even the Yankees fans didn’t come out when they were a bad team in the early-mid 1970’s and throughout the mid-late 1980’s. The only fans that seem to support their teams all the time are Cubs fans and Red Sox fans and you could make an argument that this has more to do with the stadiums and the atmosphere more than the teams.
Payroll and fan support are no excuse. You can put a competitive team on the field without a high payroll. Sure you have to be more wise with your resources and it is more challenging, but it’s possible. Look at Oakland and Minnesota.
By Jack
August 10, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this
Most of you respondants never really were Braves fans. You probably belong to the crowd that thought the stock market would always be bullish. It just shows how stupid you are. No true fan can be happy with what’s going on, and surely there is some room for some second guessing but I think two masterful professionals such as BC & JS thought they were making the best decisions available to them; given all the circumstance they must consider, that none of you have any true insight into.
I’m very concerned, as many of you are, about the near future. I’m a realist and I see major problems for next year and maybe beyond that. Wickman will probably retire and Baez is a free agent. Even if we resign him, he’s really better suited for a setup man than a closer. We also need another dominate left arm in the bullpen. We come back with one reliable starting pitcher, Smoltz, who is a year older. Hampton is returning from arm surgery. The Braves will be hyping him, but I’m buy into it when I see it over the long haul. In my book James and Davies are way over hyped and I believe sub .500 pitchers. I can’t say any more for Ramirez. Who is to say what can be expected from Hudson. Judging from this year he’s a #4 or 5 starter.
Looking at the position players, we don’t have a leadoff hitter and no speed. We have an aging third baseman who will probably stay injured as much as he has this year and Giles will probably be traded and we’ll have a rookie at second that has to learn how to be a major leaguer.
The question is: Do we trade Andrew? There could be two reasons why that may happen. One is Liberty Media wants to unload payroll. If that is their only purpose then we fans will be looking at a bad product on the field. However, If they tell JS to trade Andrew, get some great talent in return that can help us now and also spend some money to solve some of the other holes I’ve outlined above, then as a fan, I say go for it. This team is at a crossroads and Andrew is the only commodity we have, and the truth is we won’t be able to keep him after 2007 and receive nothing in return.
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this
Jack,
I agree that we should trade AJ if we can get three good young players, which we probably can. I think we’ll make him what we feel is a fair offer this winter and if we can’t sign him to an extension, we’ll trade him. Same goes with Giles. Those two players should bring in plenty of young talent, if Schuerholz can make the right moves—and I have complete confidence in him.
By Mike
August 10, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this
The Braves don’t need to completely rebuild. They have a solid core of players returning for next year. That being said, though, there are some major holes that need filling.
First step… trade Giles for a quality #3 or 4 starting pitcher. With Aybar able to take over at 2nd and bat leadoff, Giles is no longer needed. I like him, but it appears he’s maxed out his potential.
Second step… find some free-agent bullpen help. I have no idea who is coming available, but right about now it seems that anyone would be an upgrade over the current guys. Keep Wickman, maybe Ray… but get rid of the rest.
Third step… coaches. Bobby Cox is a great manager. Ask any player or manager, and they’ll tell you. Why, though? He’s won all those division titles, but only 1 world series with the Braves. So… how does that make him one of the best managers of all time? Players all say it’s his loyalty. He’ll stick with someone, show he believes in them, back them up no matter what. I really believe that this loyalty is also Cox’s downfall. He should do his best to put the lineup on the field that has the best chance to win, no matter what. If a player has a 10 run ERA, you don’t keep sending him out there. If a guy is batting .100, you don’t put the bat in his hands. How many games have been lost because Cox’s “All-Loyalty” team has been on the field instead of the best players?
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this
Mike,
Bobby Cox is a great manager. You can’t argue with results. True, he’s one only one World Series, but luck plays a huge roll in the post-season. And look at the talent on some of his teams. There’s no way, based on talent, the Braves should have won the division title in 2003 or 2004 or 2005 or several other years. Bobby Cox gets the most out of his players.
Sure Cox deserves some of the blame for the Braves not performing in the post-season because he is the manager, but you also have to take into account the players, the front-office and just plain bad luck.
And I agree, we need pitching. Giles and Andruw are very valuable and we can get plenty of young talent for them. And we probably aren’t going to resign them. Even if we could, I think 5 or 6 young players (if we get the right young players) are better.
By LARRY
August 10, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this
I’m sorry, but Scherholtz and Time have wrode this horse… to the ground. I was out there yesterday… supporting my team in the heat, buying those $ 10 roast beef aujus and $ 5 cokes. Betiment was our # 1 big mistake, you could always count on him both as a player and a sparkplug, Time Warner doesn’t understand baseball…and they think a spark plug goes in your car. We should have bought our pitching, or just paid for what we already had, but let slip. Sorry Braves, you remind me so much of the pre and post 69 Braves. Never will forget how great I felt when we squeeked into the penant in 69, and were masacred immediatly . The Braves are overpriced….and had I not been given 4 tickets free, I’d have not went yesterday. The seats aren’t even large enough for a big business man like myself. At least this trip… you kept the drunks hid somewhere off to themselves, unlike my last trip. So… Unless I can get 4 free tickets, preferably with a parking pass, Must be seats 1 thru 4… I wouldn’t drive down there for it. It was nice.. while it lasted, before big corp business got a hold of our team, now we’re embarrassing.
By D.S.
August 10, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this
Here we go with the “fair weather fans”, “never really were Braves fans”, “shows how stupid you are” comments again. I really love these bozos coming out of the woodwork who try to justify the fact that they are the “real” fans, or that we are not.
What I heard on the radio yesterday made me sick. We are finally paying the price for the falling payroll. If it wasn’t the relievers, another critical area of the roster would have had to be purchased at Big Lots because the money was not there to compete. For two seasons we got away with bargain-basement relievers, but not anymore.
But this does not mean I’m not going to continue to be a fan, and I’d make the assumption that 90 percent of the posters on this board feel the same way.
So get over yourselves. If I needed a tongue-lashing from a self-righteous, holier-than-thou know it all, I’d spend more time with my wife.
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this
D.S.,
The payroll excuse only goes so far. There are several teams that contend with low payrolls. That being said, I’m sure there’s and adjustment period we should “allow for” with concern to the payroll. I think this offseason is going to tell us a lot about Scherholz; is he the kindof GM that will make shrewd moves to compensate for payroll deficiencies. We’ll see.
By KC
August 10, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this
Knockahoma:
Your points are well taken, but I’ll tell you why I disagree with them.
First of all, as I mentioned, Hudson did pitch effectively in Atlanta last year. He should have won at least 18 games last year (that was the bullpen’s fault). And he finished with an ERA of 3.52. Since when is that “not effective”? Again, that’s almost the exact same ERA that John Smoltz and Carlos Zambrano have right now. Is anyone saying they’re not effective??? If you want to say he’s sucked for the last 8 weeks (prior to his last start)… I’ll go with you there. But we have to keep 7 bad weeks in perspective. He’s only 30, his stuff is still there - he hasn’t lost a thing, and he HAS!!!!! proven that he can pitch effectively in the NL.
As far as Hampton is concerned… there’s every reason to be optimistic. Most pitchers after that 18 month mark show little to no ill effects from that surgery. Again, his recovery is already going extremely well, and he will be one of the rare instances where a player comes back after the FULL 18 MONTH recovery period, instead of after just 12 months. I think if you were to poll coaches and players around baseball, they would tell you they’d bet on Hampton coming back strong.
As to Smoltzy… yeah, he’s getting older. Is he showing signs of slowing down? If so, please point out what they are. I know he can’t keep this up forever, but what reason do we have to believe that he’s going to go from having as great a stuff as ever, to completely washed up over the course of one winter?
By KC
August 10, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this
Knockahoma: Couple of other points:
• I think you’re reacting to a couple of errors that Diaz has made lately, but on a whole, he’s been an excellent left fielder this year for Atlanta.
• I agree with you about Langerhanz… great glove but doesn’t have a major league stick.
• “We need to get younger not older.” Exactly what do you think the average age of this team is? We have a few older guys: Smoltz (39), Wickman (37), Chipper (34 but his body is acting several years older), Pratt (39… but who cares). We a couple other players in the 31-33 range (Hampton and Hudson), but they’re not old by any stretch of the imagination. This is a young team, anchored by several quality veterans. That’s the formula we started this 14 year run with, isn’t it?
• Wickman is said to be talking about retirement. I’ll believe it when I see it. It’s rare to see a player retire while they’re still at the top of their game (I don’t mean the peak of his career, but still very effective).
• ”The rest of the position players are average to above average. LaRoche has shown some promise but is yet to prove consistent across a season.” I can’t believe my ears on this one. Giles is an all-star, and now that he’s out of that leadoff spot, he’s playing like it again… just like he has day in and day out for the last 3 years. Have you forgotten about everything he’s proven up to this point? And LaRoche has hit .290 since May 1st. He’s on pace to hit 30-HR/100-RBI, and he plays a great 1B. “Average or slightly above average”??? Also, we are now seeing good production out of LF between Diaz and Thorman. Thorman is a major league thumper, and when you’ve got that kind of power at the bottom of your order… yikes! Chipper is oft-injured, but he’s still a great player when he’s in there. Can’t say I agree with your point on Aybar’s defense either.
• “If the Braves simply want top win another division, Cox is your guy. If the Braves goal is to win another WS title, move Cox back to the front office and bring on a new manager to fire up this new team. The players and coaches have all grown lax under Cox’s management and that must change.” Nobody’s grown “lax”. These guys want to win just as badly as us fans want them to win. The Braves haven’t had the talent (at least healthy talent) in several years to make it to the World Series. Sometimes a team chokes, and sometimes you just get beat by a better team… no shame in that.
Rotation: Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Ramirez, Davies/James. This rotation has a chance to be the best in baseball.
Bullpen: I’ll bet you lunch that Wickman is back next year. Boyer and Foster will be back, and JS will make another trade/signing or two to ensure the stability of this bullpen from opening day this time.
Lineup: 5 all-stars NOT INCLUDING 2 guys, LaRoche or Francoeur, that are on pace to hit 30/100, and a productive Thorman/Diaz combination.
Knockahoma, you are underestimating this team.
By Mike
August 10, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this
Seems Like there needs to be an end to the blame
By Rick
August 10, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this
No Leo Mazzone = no pitching. we cant expect this team to score 10+ runs a game to cover the bad pitching. You have to be able to win those 1-0, 1-2 ballgames. Yesterday should have been a 3-1 victory.
By Jerry
August 10, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this
Go Braves!!!
Lets break everything down and see where we end up.
1st Base, we have one of the top 2 or 3 defensive 1st basemen in baseball and batting statistics that say Vinny Castillo. How many runs has he saved this year. He will only get better. We miss Julio, his confidence and skill. He should be our hitting coach. If your team lacks the ability to hit the other way wouldn’t you hire someone that can.
2nd Base- Giles has above average defense and hitting in the #2 slot makes him a keeper.
Shortstop-while defense is not on par with Furcal, when the game is on the line I would want his bat up there bar none.
Third Base-Fact of Life, Chipper is in decline and I see no more seasons where he is healthy the whole season. Betemit was not the answer and neither is Aybar. Chipper is not even in the top ten for 3rd basemen. This is where you solve a problem on the free agent market. I see Chipper as a DH and nothing more.
Outfield-At the start of the season if someone gave you Francouers statistics up until now I would take them in a heartbeat. He will only get better and along with McCann is the leadership of the Braves.
Nothing more needs to be said about one of the top five centerfielders of all time. Pay him what he deserves.
Leftfield is a terrible situation and can be addressed on the free agent market
Catcher- I would take McCann over any catcher in the national league but our backup needs to go. Bring up a kid.
Starting pitchers-Keep Smoltz, James, Hudson and with Hampton coming back things look up.
Closers-we finally traded for 2 guys we could have had in the off season. I do question JS on this. Keep them but remember, if they go elsewhere this makes JS look even worse.
Middle reliefers-I remember one thing Bob Gibson once said. Bob Walk was living up to his name and when Gibby walked to the mound he told Walk that if there weren’t 17000 people in the stands he would hit him upside his head. I say hit’em upside with a stick of dynamite. How is it ever year we see a David Weathers on a different team but the Braves won’t sign him. Just an example.
Coaches-While its easy to question Cox’s decision making during the game for the most part he does okay. I love Bobby Cox and all he has done. We are to professional and goody two shoes. We have no spirit. When a pitcher comes in or a starter is at a point and the game is on the line why can’t I see a pitcher get expressive when they get the third out. Pump their fists, get the crowd into the game. Thats how rallys are started
Just some thoughts and thanks
GO Braves
By Mad as hell and not going to take it anymore
August 10, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this
OK, but one last entry in the blame game before we move on — This is what happens and should be expected when you have corporate team ownership that cares about nothing more than tax shelters and the bottom line. When Ted owned the team, he cared. Passionately. He wanted to win and gave JS the authority to do whatever it took to do so. That attitude left once the suits at Time Warner took over and the team has been on a slow, steady decline since. Let’s face it, the Braves haven’t been a LEGITIMATE World Series favorite in at least five years. The remaining talent and the savvy of JS have kept the team good enough to skate by and get to the first round of the playoffs. But you can only pull a rabbit out of the hat so long. And if you think things are going to get better because the team is being sold, forget i. Unless somebody like Arthur Blank — somebody who cares and will run the Braves as a team, rather than a business — is in charge, what you see now is what you are going to continue to get. It’s been a nice run, but I’m afraid it is going, GOING, gone.
By steve
August 10, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this
KC is absolutely right.
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this
“We need to get younger not older.” Exactly what do you think the average age of this team is? We have a few older guys: Smoltz (39), Wickman (37), Chipper (34 but his body is acting several years older), Pratt (39… but who cares). We a couple other players in the 31-33 range (Hampton and Hudson), but they’re not old by any stretch of the imagination. This is a young team, anchored by several quality veterans. That’s the formula we started this 14 year run with, isn’t it?
The evidence tells us baseball players generally peak in their late 20’s. As you point out, we’ve got a lot of 30-somethings. Not that players can’t be productive in their 30’s but most players have reached their peak by 30. And we can bring in some talented players in their early 20’s by trading players near then end of their contracts and pushing 30 (Andruw Jones and Marcus Giles). Now I’m sure Jones and Giles will remain very productive for quite a few more years, especially AJ. But it’s better to have a high quantity of young talent than just one or two very productive older players. You never know when a player is going to drop off completely (ala Sammy Sosa) so you want to trade them right before they are going to decline (generally around 30).
By Rick Roberts
August 10, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this
I agree with sam and a few others. This team seems lethargic and out of shape. Conditioning must be poor. The excuses after every loss are always the same—we know that the Braves cannot always win, but it would be great to see effort. I see players going through the motions. In KC, it is more fun to watch the Royals now—they, at least, try. It is probably time for Bobby to retire and I do like Ned Yost. We need a new pitching coach—something is really wrong here. Braves fans just want to see good baseball—we’re still loyal, but we are not stupid nor do we want to pay high prices to see poor effort. Bring Dayton Moore back—this guy is good!
By Rick Roberts
August 10, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this
I agree with sam and a few others. This team seems lethargic and out of shape. Conditioning must be poor. The excuses after every loss are always the same—we know that the Braves cannot always win, but it would be great to see effort. I see players going through the motions. In KC, it is more fun to watch the Royals now—they, at least, try. It is probably time for Bobby to retire and I do like Ned Yost. We need a new pitching coach—something is really wrong here. Braves fans just want to see good baseball—we’re still loyal, but we are not stupid nor do we want to pay high prices to see poor effort. Bring Dayton Moore back—this guy is good!
By Tony
August 10, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this
Louis Vales,
To answer your questions. I am happy of the Braves accomplishments over the past 14 years (even with one WS ring) and I would be even happier if they kept it up but it looks like the streak will end. But, you try to downplay Bobby Cox as a manager by stating how weak our division is or has been. Let me refresh your memory a little. Last year our division was the ONLY division in baseball with every team being above .500. Pretty good. In the past 10 years 3 different teams have represented our division in the World Series. 2 of those teams brought home a ring. 1 team did it twice. In the past 10 years, the National League representative in the World Series came from the National League East 5 times. That is 50%. How can you still sit there and say that this is a weak division and base your whole argument against Bobby Cox on this?
By Robert
August 10, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this
This is, plain and simple, poorly managed.
Same as every other Braves team since 1991
There’s a donkey in the dugout, and his name is Bobby Cox
By Mike
August 10, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this
To all the Cox bashers: If Wohlers had made one better pitch in the ‘96 Series, the Braves win. If it weren’t for the ‘wonderful’ calls in the ‘97 NLCS, Braves go to the Series again and likely win. That would have been, what, three in a row?
The Braves need new piching/hitting coaches in the Majors and in the minors. Stockman will be a monster in the ‘pen next year. Hopefully Foster and Boyer will be strong too. Plus, JS still has $2-3 million of this years money that I’m assuming he’ll use for next year. Things couldn’t be all that bad next year. LaRoche just needs to continue to improve, McCann and Francouer will be fine, Andruw will be a 10-5 player. The only question for next year is starting pitching (less so if Hampton returns strong), left field, and a leadoff batter. Heck, they could kill two birds with one stone with a LF, leadoff hitter.
By Tony
August 10, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this
Anyone who wants to blame the manager or the front office with the players not producing on the field are just plain ignorant. Bobby Cox is one of the best managers of all time (not because of his loyalty) and JS is by far one of, if not the best, GM’s of all time. Talk to anyone with baseball knowledge and they will tell you the same thing. If you really want to see this team fall apart, fire Bobby cox and see what happens. And to whoever it was complaining about people like myself calling alot of these bloggers fairweather fans, we were not talking about you, but were talking about the ones claiming they will give up on the Braves forever now. How can they ever call themselves fans? You have every right to come on here and b***h about this year’s performance. I am not happy at all about it and my blame goes to the bullpen and injuries (and lack of production) to the starting rotation. I am tired of hearing people calling for Bobby Cox’s head when all he is done is win the division 14 straight years. That is a huge accomplishment people. One World Series title is a little disappointing but it is very hard to get that ring. Ask Cub fans, or Red Sox fans, or Chi Sox fans. They are not easy to come by. We are spoiled fans and overreact to a season of mediocrity. It is okay to blame the players and get frustrated, but don’t come on here asking to fire the coach and all of the upper management and claim to never watch the Braves again. C’mon people.
By Knockahoma
August 10, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this
KC- Again, very well constructed comments. My points:
Pitching: our starting pitchers will set the tone next year. The average age of our top 3 guys(Smoltz-39, Hudson-33, Hampton-34) is 35.33 and one(Hampton) is a 34 year old coming off major surgery.
Position players: no knock on Giles but he is a 2 hole guy that swings for HRs. We need to focus on hitting for average and playing small ball. Diaz has potential but would qualify as no better than average to above average today. LaRoche has come on strong the last month to make up for a dreadful June. Until he puts a few consistent full-seasons together it would be a stretch to call him an All-Star. I like Thorman- good point there. Chipper’s health issues make him hard to count on day in and day out. Aybar? did you see him yesterday lose that easy foul ball pop-up and let that grounder go right through his legs?
Manager: I agree that the Braves have not had the talent in the 00’s to compete for a WS with the exception of 2003 when they were LOADED. That’s why I base my main argument on the 90’s. When you have a team that makes it to the postseason 8 times leading to the WS 5 times, one would expect more than one title even if you subscribe to the luck logic. Cox has proven that he can’t adapt his style to the win or go home stage. His management style favors a longer schedule of averages. The WS requires making decisions on the here and now.
Much of your optimism surrounds alot of 30+ year olds having healthy career seasons. I put Smoltz, Chipper, Hampton, Hudson, and Wickman(if he stays) in that category. Those are some pretty key positions to hope to run the table on.
By KC
August 10, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
Tony is correct.
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this
Yeah, I’m sure the Braves aren’t trying. That’s why the position players, all of them, are putting up the numbers we would expect from them. Some of them better than expected.
By Knockahoma
August 10, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this
Tony wrote: “If you really want to see this team fall apart, fire Bobby cox and see what happens.”
If you haven’t noticed- Tony- the Braves have already fallen apart with Cox in the dugout.
By Jason Cherry
August 10, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this
GET RID OF CHIPPER!!!
By fansince66
August 10, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this
The image from this season that says it all is when yesterday, Francoeur, in the second inning of a scoreless game against the only divisional rival ahead of us in the wild card, hits a squibber to the pitcher, who proceeds to bobble the easy play, but throws Jeff out by a half-step anyway BECAUSE FRANCOEUR IS JOGGING TO FIRST. Those are the kind of plays that big games hinge on, and Jeff is a clown show, not a contender.
Cox should have pulled Francoeur immediately, like he did with Andruw a few years back. If you don’t hustle, you don’t deserve to win.
By Jason Cherry
August 10, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this
GET RID OF CHIPPER!!!
By Alex
August 10, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
KC excellent comments and I agree with a lot of them, but don’t forget the competiton in the divison will be even harder next year.
I know the Mets have uncertainty as far as their pitching rotation goes, but they appear to be loaded with money so I don’t doubt they will get another top notch starter…Schmidt or Zito come to mind. I guess Pedro still decent, they will pick up Glavine’s option, but he’s fading…but I mean that’s still a tough team.
Marlins will be better…loaded with talent…starting pitching and positon players…maybe their pen isn’t that great but still tough team to beat and always give the Braves fits.
Nationals…I don’t expect them to be competitive, as far as the Phillies…they will probably be a .500 team which plays us tough. Either way, it’s not an easy division to compete in anymore, like it was a few years ago.
Now…here we go again. I have made this point several times, and I will keep making it b/c some of you don’t see to understand.
Just because fans are negative and upset right now, doesn’t mean that they aren’t real Braves fans or unsupportive of the team! Get it in your little heads. Most fans that are frustrated with the Braves, vent b/c we care! Because we will not sit back and accept mediocrity with open arms like the rest of you do and claim to be “real fans”. Tell me what is a real fan anyways? Do you just never say and point out the obvious? Nobody is giving up on the Braves as an organization, but we entitled to a little uncertainty here! A moment of reflection…I’m only 26, and I moved here in 1993…so all I know is winning, all I’ve seen is 1st place. I’m not used to any of this! So instead of bashing the fans who expect and demand their Braves to be winners, maybe you should point that finger elsewhere.
By fnreitsma
August 10, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this
hows everyone feel about a deal for Crawford next year? maybe send over Thorman, Langerhans and either Ramirez, Davies or James? This year’s done…but its not too early to think about next year. we need a leadoff hitter toot sweet. you cant possibly think Aybar is the way to go. Cuz, he isn’t! If we wanna compete with Florida next year (i think they’re gonna be the team to beat next year) we need some real talent.
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this
The evidence tells us baseball players generally peak in their late 20’s. We’ve got a lot of 30-somethings. Not that players can’t be productive in their 30’s but most players have reached their peak by 30. And we can bring in some talented players in their early 20’s by trading players near then end of their contracts and pushing 30 (Andruw Jones and Marcus Giles). Now I’m sure Jones and Giles will remain very productive for quite a few more years, especially AJ. But it’s better to have a high quantity of young talent than just one or two very productive older players. You never know when a player is going to drop off completely (ala Sammy Sosa) so you want to trade them right before they are going to decline (generally around 30).
By Knockahoma
August 10, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this
Mike- Besides 1995 when the Braves won and 1999 when they were beat by a team out of their league, Cox has held this team back. Liebrandt in 1991, Nixon bunting for the final out in 1992(may have been the only WS to end on a bunt), and lack of focus in 1996(Leyritz homerun won game 4 which tied the series 2-2 yet Cox couldn’t get his troops back mentally). There are plenty of specific moves I have forgotten, but suffice to say that Bobby Cox would not be going to any Hall of Fame centered around success IN the postseason.
By craig Miller
August 10, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this
Braves converted 20 of 40 save chances before Wickman. If that number had been even mediocre, say 30 of 40, we’d have a 3 1/2 game lead in the wild card, and would be within reach of the Mets.
That’s the story of the season. All this talk about trading Andruw Jones, rebuilding, all that stuff would never have been brought up without the awful bullpen.
We’re 2nd in the NL in runs scored. That doesn’t seem like a lineup that needs rebuilding.
BULLPEN, BULLPEN, BULLPEN!!!!!!!
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
fnreitsma,
I don’t think Crawford is on the market. And there’s no such thing as a good leadoff hitter, only good hitters and bad hitters. Batting order is overrated (see Baseball Between the Numbers; there’s a whole chapter on the unimportance of batting order). Who’s in the lineup is much more important than where they bat.
By KC
August 10, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
Alex:
I agree with you. The NL competition has to be tougher next year. The Mets are going to add a starter (or two), possibly a big name like Schmidt or Zito. However, by the same token, they’re not going to be the only bidder with a big check book looking for starting pitching.
Schmidt and Zito both figure to be pursued by the Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Cardinals, and possibly the ChiSox, Tigers, or Red Sox.
If Hudson’s troubles are behind him, and Hampton comes back strong… I don’t think the Mets are going to boast a better starting 3 no matter who they go out and get (assuming Glavine’s their #3 guy next season). And certainly the bottom end of our rotation with HoRam and Davies/James (4&5) will likely be stronger than the bottom of any other rotation in the league. Although I would still love to see us go after Jason Schmidt, I’m pretty sure that won’t happen, and that’s okay. I don’t think we have to worry about the rotation.
If Wickman re-signs, then with the return of Boyer and Foster, I don’t think we’ll have much to worry about in the pen either.
I know we don’t have anything to worry about in our lineup. This team is going to score a lot of runs next year. Especially if (A) Renteria hits well in the leadoff spot, or (B) we go out and get a leadoff hitter.
The competition will be better… no doubt. But assuming Wickman re-signs, and barring anything unforseen, I don’t see any weaknesses in this team heading into next season.
By Tony
August 10, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this
Knockahoma, They have not fallen apart by any means. Craig Miller summed it up perfectly. If our bullpen converts just half of what they have blown, we would be sitting pretty. Not too much to ask for. If Bobby were not in that dugout, who would lead that team. Noone speaks up as a true leader. Smoltzie will step up every once in a while when needed to. Chipper is not as much as a leader as he is a teacher for teh young guys. Bobby is the glue that holds this team together even during a season like this. How many other managers can you hear from the dugout cheering on his players every at bat? Bobby is into every game and does not sit on the bench acting unenthused.
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
There’s no such thing as a good leadoff hitter, only good hitters and bad hitters. Batting order is overrated (see Baseball Between the Numbers; there’s a whole chapter on the unimportance of batting order). Who’s in the lineup is much more important than where they bat.
By Daniel Ross
August 10, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
Just two words… “Time Warner”!!!!
By tyger
August 10, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this
Hey, how bout this, keep Andruw Jones and get rid of the rest of those bums??? Brilliant, huh?
By Bethany
August 10, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
I loved this article! I was literally laughing out loud while reading it! I have been saying for the past month, I am ready for the Braves to just stop and start working on next season. But as a diehard and loyal fan I will still be there watching them lose and cheering for them when they do score some runs. We can all complain, but we must stick with our team and not be fair weather fans! As always we hold out for next year.
By Bring back my daddy!!
August 10, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this
I dont think its a coincidence that the winning began when Leo Mazzone was promoted to pitching coach and the winning stopped as soon as he left.
Evidence was there the first week of the season that pitching would be a problem, hell it was there in spring training.
By The Truth
August 10, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this
Plan A : Can we just ship the whole lot of them out of town and start over ???? I forgot, nobody would take this bunch of rag-tag crap-eaters. Plan B : Cut what you can and send the rest to AAA.
By The Truth
August 10, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this
Plan A : Can we just ship the whole lot of them out of town and start over ???? I forgot, nobody would take this bunch of rag-tag crap-eaters. Plan B : Cut what you can and send the rest to AAA.
By Shaun Payne
August 10, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this
Mazzone
Well, our pitching wasn’t good last year or in 2003 and Leo was here. And the Orioles pitching staff isn’t exactly blowing everybody away. Don’t you think if Mazzone was that good, there would be more evidence than just this season and spring training?
Maybe there was something in the Fulton County water that made Mazzone great, but I think it had more to do with his pupils here.
Don’t get me wrong, Mazzone should get into the Hall of Fame, but I just don’t think his departure has much to do with the downfall of the Braves. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see too much evidence.
By The Truth
August 10, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this
Plan A : Can we just ship the whole lot of them out of town and start over ???? I forgot, nobody would take this bunch of rag-tag crap-eaters. Plan B : Cut what you can and send the rest to AAA.
By soweganole
August 10, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this
I’m tired of John S. and his cronies patting themselves on the back for the job they have done with the farm system. Oh sure, the farm system has provided some decent position players but where are the pitchers they drafted over the past few years. You know, the ones that could throw 99mph. When is the last time Atlanta has produced an “all-star” quality pitcher in its farm system? I think the answer is Tom Glavine, which was about 15 years ago.I think this major weakness has finally been exposed, since the owners are no longer willing to buy free agents to cover it up. Also, a lot of the minor league pitchers are having physical problems, just like the big league club. Why? Maybe its the tone at the top…meaning Bobby Cox doesn’t put a lot of pressure on his players to be in shape before or during the season. Just look at the bullpen for an example. Looks more like beer-league softball players trying to pitch. I guess another sign of our poor farm system is that we have an inordinate amount of reclamation projects such as Ken Ray, Chad Paronto, Wayne Franklin, etc. If we had a good farm system this would be rare.
By Knockahoma
August 10, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
Tony- Cox’s attaboys and cheeleader antics produced one title in 5 trips to the WS. Given the Braves talent over those years, one title is a significant underachievement. Again, Cox is well credentialed when it comes to the regular season but in October, he may be the last guy you want at the helm. His record speaks for itself.
By David
August 10, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
I don’t understand why everyone has given up on the Braves this season. Why give up on a team that is saving their best baseball for the end of the season? If I had a crystal ball, which I do not, but if I had one, I would most assuredly guarantee that I think the Braves are going to win their division this year, based on what they have done the past 14 seasons. I think that when the Braves are pushed to the brink of embarrassment, which is where they are right now, the Braves will get off the deck right now and play really steller baseball the rest of the way with laser focus and start winning almost every day and night like its going out of style. The Braves will probably win 90 games this season—and I think that will be enough for them to get the wild card berth. But if the fans have folded their tents and have cheapened what the Braves have accomplished in 14 straight seasons then the fans of Atlanta don’t deserve to have a winning campaign from the Braves this year. By and large, I think the Braves will win their division—-in what will be considered somewhat of an impossible miracle right now, based upon the lousy baseball that the Braves are currently playing—and the Braves will be referred to as the Miracle Braves of ‘06. I’ll never give up right down until the last pork chop is eaten and until the last tomahawk chop is chanted.
By Benny
August 10, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this
I don’t believe this team could win a championship in AAA ball. I don’t see how some of these releivers ever got an opportunity to pitch in the major leagues. They are terrible!
By Craig
August 10, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this
All of you should be ashamed I have been a Braves fan all my life. I have seen the bad teams and the good teams. If they dont make the playoffs, who cares? In years pastm the team ahs been down, but never out. You bloggers need to get off your butts, quit typing at the computer and cheer for a team that has given you so much. There is still a lot of baseball left, and teams can easily put together a streak. GO BRAVES. And to you all who have nothing but negativity, go root for the Yankees or somebody. Id rather not have to read posts for you ignorant rednecks who give up when the team hasnt.
By Scott
August 10, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this
Excellent blogging on this article!! A few points to add: It seems to be universal with many teams that baseball players don’t get it shape, they don’t run, they’re overweight. All of this leads to pulled hamstrings, foot problems, trips to the DL. The Braves have no speed, and add in that they’re out of shape, and the current team is what you get. Greg (8/9 at 10:46) says the Braves system has no Verlanders, Lirianos or Lesters - how do you know that?? Did you ever hear of the above guys until they came up to the Show? I actually think that Chuck James and Davies have great potential, and there are probably more coming. Everyone wants to call the Braves pathetic, but they accomplished something over the past 14 years that just isn’t done in modern sports, and they were bound to fall sometime. It’s actually good that they have crashed as they have ILO just missing the wild card, because they might have believed they were really CLOSE and wouldn’t need to make any hard choices/changes. What do they need: 1. Bullpen completely reworked. If you want to blame somebody for this year, don’t put in on Cox or McDowell, blame JS, because he saddled this team with NO bullpen. Look at the names and you won’t see a single guy that was on last year’s roster, except McBride (and last year’s was ineffective). This wasn’t because he went out and handpicked the best he could get…he went to KMart and looked in the discount bin. Leo wouldn’t have done any better with this crew (not tearing it up in Baltimore with lousy pitchers either). 2. Bolter the starters: Smoltz is a rock for at least 1 more year; Hudson better get it together (but he can, and I think, Will); Hampton - can’t count on him being his old self; Ramirez - inconsistent even when he’s healthy, and hurt frequently; Thompson - done. James & Davies - expect good things; they’re gonna need another strong lefty. 3. Only position player change is a left fielder who can lead-off - Giles can’t do it, and they need the speed. Alright, that’s enough for now, I’m getting carpal tunnel here.
By Robert Lee
August 10, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this
If I could get my hands on Ted Turner,I would grab him in the collar and ask him what the hell have you done to the braves? You have lost the team to people who know nothing about baseball and won’t spend any money on the team.I no longer have anything to do with Aol or Time Warner.
By Jeff Schultz
August 10, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this
Good comments, everybody. Just a few followups to some themes I see developing above here. When a team loses this much and this suddenly, everybody wants to blame somebody. Suffice it to say, there’s enough blame to go around. 1) Bobby Cox has not all of a sudden become a bad manager. He’s the same guy who helped hold the team together a year ago. But obviously the fact the Braves fell apart the way they did in June falls a little bit on him. 2) Any analysis of Roger McDowell as pitching coach is WAY pre-mature. Please, no more, “They can’t pitch without Leo Mazzone” whines. If you’re going to blame McDowell for the fact the Braves’ staff ERA is 4.77, acknowledge the fact that the Orioles — Mazzone’s Orioles — have the second-worst ERA in the majors at 5.31. It comes down to what it always has come down to: players. 3) This leads us to John Schuerholz. He has worked his magic in the past and it helped the Braves win all of these divisions. But the fact is, very few of those risky decisions — which worked in the past — have panned out the last couple of years. There is a shallow talent pool, particularly in pitching. Some of it is because of the budget and the fact that the Braves have too much payroll tied in a handful of players. But some of it was just decisions that backfired. If nothing else, this should be interesting off-season. Thanks JS
By Hal
August 10, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this
Here are the moves i anticapate JS making .Bring up Jonathan and install him at second batting clean up
This will mean we no longer need our cleanup man so we can trade Druw to Florida for Wes Helms (hey hes cheap)
Then sighn Brian Jordan to a long term contract(good in the club house)
NOW to shore up the bull pen we will bring back Remlinger ,Rick Camp and Terry Forster(save on uniforms he can wear Porontoe’s)
By Kristy
August 10, 2006 07:34 PM | Link to this
What’s wrong with you people? Yeah, it sucked. Yeah, a lot of this season has sucked. But get over it. This is our team whether they win or lose. They just happen to be doing a lot more losing than we’re used to. The only thing I’ve ever remembered from the Braves was their winning. I don’t remember anything before the last 14 straight divisions. There’s still hope. It ain’t over until that elimination number is reached. And the way the rest of the NL wild card teams are playing, we still got a shot. And as long as we still have a shot, I’m in for the long haul. Which is more than I can say for the rest of you fair weather fans…
By Ouch
August 10, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this
The way the rest of the NL wild card teams are playing? Cincinnati = 3 games over .500. LA, San Diego, Arizona = 2 games over .500. Atlanta = 9 games under .500**.
Start printing those playoff tickets!
By Ouch
August 10, 2006 07:56 PM | Link to this
Good article about the NL wild card race. Funny, there doesn’t seem to be anything about the Braves.
By SAL
August 10, 2006 08:33 PM | Link to this
This year has been over since allstar break. JS has been stubborn in admitting the need to rebuild. Having the league’s best defensive centerfielder and nothing else is NOT a winning formula (Braves have no championships with #25 in CF).
If Braves had admitted that the team needs to be rebuilt rather than tweaked before the trading dead line, the turnaround time would have been minimal. Trading Andruw Jones would have brought in good young talent in the form of prospects and proven younger major leaguers (like Crisp from Boston). Braves could have gotten 3 or 4 players for Andruw considering he is under contract for only 1 more year. As a 10-5 player next week and having been pulled back off waivers last weekend Jones must now approve any trade. Will Braves negotiate with Boras? No. So instead of loading up with a combination of 3 or 4 very good prospects and/or respectable young players, Braves will get a couple of draft choices out of high school.
Andruw would not be missed at the plate because Francouer has already demonstrated the ability to impersonate Andruw at the plate with his predetermination of what to swing at. Perhaps being away from Andruw would be a positive in Francouer developing an approach to hitting like McCann has demonstrated.
Trading Andruw would have also freed up $13+ million. Thomson’s departure will save another $4 million. If Giles does not come back, that is probably another $5 to 6 million. So if you have $22 million, surely you can buy a bullpen and a couple of servicible starters. If that is not enough, perhaps we could convince Texas and Chipper that they are a good match. Thats frees up another $13 million and makes room on the DL for somebody else.
An $80+ million dollar payroll should put a contender on the field.
By tyger
August 10, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this
Well all is not lost, Shuerholtz at least shipped all our good players to one team, so now we can watch the L.A. Braves…
…well its better than nothing.