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DEL.ICIO.USTime and another game slip away
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Mark Bradley
The Braves insist they can reach the postseason, and technically and mathematically they still can. But here’s a sobering snippet of math: The team that has made two trades to bolster its avowed playoff run just lost the opener of a series against a team that dumped an All-Star outfielder and a starting pitcher and is clearly in rebuilding mode. And Philadelphia stands three games ahead of the Braves.
“We’re definitely in it,” said Jeff Francoeur, speaking before Monday’s game. But if they’re alive, where’s Philadelphia?
“If they’re in it, we’re in it,” said Charlie Manuel, the Phillies’ manager. “Anything can happen — the Dodgers have proven that. They lost 13 [of 14], and now they’ve won nine in a row.”
Yeah, it’s a funny game. But surely Philadelphia can’t see itself as a playoff team — not with its handful of developing young pitchers and its four-man bench — and at this late date, it’s hard to imagine the Braves as one, either.
“We’re good enough to pull it off,” manager Bobby Cox, among the more optimistic men who have ever lived, said Monday afternoon. “We’ve got some pieces in the bullpen, and we’ll get Chipper back in a week, and Giles is really starting to hit.”
Francoeur: “If you look at our August schedule, it’s very favorable. We don’t play a team that’s above .500 [the rest of the month], and you have to like that.”
You would. But those other middling teams can look at the Braves and see not the colossus that won those 14 consecutive division titles but a flawed aggregation that has itself been above .500 only 13 days this season. “They’ve had trouble with their starting pitching and trouble at the back end of their bullpen,” Manuel said. “And they have a lot of young players playing at the major-league level.”
When the story of this season is finally written, the fortnight just completed could well stand as the determinant. The Braves had gone 14-5 to bracket the All-Star break and had climbed into a fourth-place tie in the wild-card standings. Two weeks later, they’re tied for ninth. It isn’t the deficit — 5 1/2 games behind Cincinnati — that’s so daunting; it’s the number of teams the Braves would have to catch and pass, and roughly half of them are going to win every single night.
“There’s a sense of urgency now,” Francoeur said. “We can’t have any more 2-3 or 3-4 homestands. … We have to put ourselves in position for September. These next two weeks will be big.”
And this Big Homestand began with a 9-6 loss. So much for seizing the day.
The Braves of recent vintage might have extricated themselves from this. (Then again, those Braves were never so flimsy as to be 51-60 with 51 games to play.) What stands to be this team’s ultimate undoing is what touched off and fueled the great run of division titles — starting pitching. You can’t fashion a 10-game streak if you have to win every game 10-9. The Braves have only three wins by a starter in their past 17 games, two of those from John Smoltz.
Said Manuel: “If they had two or three Smoltzes over there, things would be a lot different.”
They used to have three or four such pitchers. Now they’re down to one, and he can start only 10 or so games the rest of the way. And Horacio Ramirez, who has become a source of much exasperation, hurt himself again Monday, suffering “a soft-tissue injury” to the middle finger of his throwing hand. (Just how much “soft tissue” is there in a middle finger?)
One of those teams that just hopped above the Braves is Houston. The Astros can throw Roger Clemens, Roy Oswalt and Andy Pettitte in succession. Forced to choose between that august rotation and the Braves’, who would you pick to make an eight-week run to October?
Even Cox, the raging optimistic, conceded, “We don’t have that many [games left]. We’ve got to run the table.”
One more game ticked off Monday night, the Braves losing for the fourth time in five days. Time isn’t on their side. Truth to tell, nothing is on their side.
Permalink | Comments (109) | Post your comment | Categories: Braves / MLB, Mark Bradley
Comments
By burt
August 8, 2006 12:08 AM | Link to this
this team just doesn’t have it. they try, but nothing but bad things happen.they are not put togeather right. js must have been drunk when he traded off benemit.
By gotigers72
August 8, 2006 01:30 AM | Link to this
You are right on the button about their undoing being pitching. Earlier in the year it was the bullpen, now it’s the starters. I said during the June swoon that if they would get back in it, pitching would be the key. Even when they were winning and scoring all of those runs, the pitching was giving up about 6 runs per game. I just can’t fathom why Hudson has been so bad, why Chuck James, who had great control in the minors, walks 3, 4, 5 hitters per game in the bigs, why Reitsma would go almost half a season without telling anyone about numbness in the fingers in his pitching hand. I could go on and on about whys.
It’s like karma has finally caught up with the Braves after 14 great seasons of finding ways to win their division, and keep us fans interested. I’m not one of those that think they’re a failure because they haven’t won but one World Series during that time. It’s better than being a fan of the Royals or Pirates during the last 14 years. Or the Mets for that matter. I’ve been a fan since they moved to Atlanta and I remember the dark days of the 70s and 80s. I certainly have enjoyed the last 14 years.
They aren’t going to make the playoffs this year. It’s time to start looking toward what they need to do to start a new streak next year. Some of the parts are there already. I don’t mean have a fire sale ala the Marlins, but I mean taking a good look at some youngsters that come up in September.
By Dave in AZ
August 8, 2006 01:32 AM | Link to this
Dodgers won their tenth in a row tonight, all since acquiring Betemit. He has been player of the game twice already.
By truth speaker
August 8, 2006 01:51 AM | Link to this
When all is said and done - the world will laugh at us for foolishly trading Betemit:( Fire JS!!!!!!!
By TommyA
August 8, 2006 01:59 AM | Link to this
Francoeur: “If you look at our August schedule, it’s very favorable. We don’t play a team that’s above .500 [the rest of the month], and you have to like that.”
That’s funny Jeff, as I recall, you are one of those teams. I wonder if they’re saying the same thing about playing the Braves?
Good night and good luck!
By hope is lost
August 8, 2006 02:38 AM | Link to this
Ya know, Francour sure talks a lot for a second year guy who is just hitting 250 with an OBP to match. I seen to remember him talking a lot before the Mets series too. Maybe next time someone someone shoves a microphone in his face he should tell them to go talk to someone who’s been around a while.
By rick
August 8, 2006 04:31 AM | Link to this
I too said quite sometime ago as the braves were setting the records for double digit runs, that our pitchers were STILL giving up way to many runs, and now the bats went back to sleep, and the pitching well……to bad smoltz can’t pitch every night. Lets bring up the farm pitchers, my gosh they can’t do any worse and as other teams see them for the first time, we might have a chance. Yes I am still optomistic, but i think the fat lady is warming up in the bullpen herself…
By rick
August 8, 2006 04:33 AM | Link to this
I too said quite sometime ago as the braves were setting the records for double digit runs, that our pitchers were STILL giving up way to many runs, and now the bats went back to sleep, and the pitching well……to bad smoltz can’t pitch every night. Lets bring up the farm pitchers, my gosh they can’t do any worse and as other teams see them for the first time, we might have a chance. Yes I am still optomistic, but i think the fat lady is warming up in the bullpen herself…
By Dave nockahomer
August 8, 2006 05:50 AM | Link to this
Fat lady IS a singing—loud and clear!
“Good night, sweet Braves, it’s time to go! Good night, sweet Braves, glad you were oh, so bold! Good night, Sweet Braves, Good night”
Friends, the Fat Lady HAS sung! Its all over but we have learned alot! First and Major Lesson:
JS IS ONE DUMB GM! HOW did he GET so dumb? He used to be smart as a whip but I guess his ‘whip’ lost it snap.
He traded Betemit and waited TOO, TOO long to get some bullpen help.
I think he is over de hill!
and please, don’t let this pup, Francouer, become the new ‘spokeperson’ for the Braves! He has talent, but it has only half showed! YOu want a GREAT spokeman?—-how about the best catcher anyone has seen in eons? At least his stats are worthy.
We need a new GM and as always, a new manager. some new, more productive players wouldn’t hurt either. especially the starting rotation which stinks so bad you can smell it on the west coast.
as always, there is next year but gonna have to have a major fire sale! and for goodness sake, don’t start with Andruw!!!!!! Don’t be that stupid, JS.
Good night, y’all it’s time to go!
By batrol
August 8, 2006 06:23 AM | Link to this
So much talk when this much is painfully obvious-this team just isn’t good enough to play .500 baseball the rest of the season, much less aim for the wild card. I sure do miss the Braves winning. It was fun; this is like the old days. And whoever said Francouer needs to shut up is absolutely right.
By jinn
August 8, 2006 06:52 AM | Link to this
IT NEVER FAILS.WHEN RAMIREZ IS GETTING BEAT HE CLAIMS AN INJURY.NOW HE’S CLAIMING ONE THOMPSON USED LAST YEAR.
By jinn
August 8, 2006 06:54 AM | Link to this
IT NEVER FAILS.WHEN RAMIREZ IS GETTING BEAT HE CLAIMS AN INJURY.NOW HE’S CLAIMING ONE THOMPSON USED LAST YEAR.
By Carroll
August 8, 2006 07:23 AM | Link to this
It’s funny…when Bobby finally got his head out of his a**e and started Betemit, we went on a 7 game win streak and put together the greatest offensive output since the 1800’s…then Giles came back, Betemit left the leadoff role and the starting lineup…we went back to normal and traded Betemit. Now we totally suck and the DOdgers have gone on a 10 game win streak since acquiring Betemit. Go figure.
By gp
August 8, 2006 07:26 AM | Link to this
The playoffs? Please! Wake me when/if we get to .500.
By Pete
August 8, 2006 07:43 AM | Link to this
Let’s face it; the starting pitching has been poor all season, not just now. Hudson has been poor for almost two years now; he’s lost three to five miles off his fast ball, all his pitches come in at relatively the same speed, and his control has suffered.
And we’re stuck with Hudson for two or three years at a huge salary, nobody wants him and eventually he will be released and the club will have to eat that salary.
It will take alot of money, which, of course, they will not spend, to rebuild this staff.
By Pete
August 8, 2006 07:44 AM | Link to this
Let’s face it; the starting pitching has been poor all season, not just now. Hudson has been poor for almost two years now; he’s lost three to five miles off his fast ball, all his pitches come in at relatively the same speed, and his control has suffered.
And we’re stuck with Hudson for two or three years at a huge salary, nobody wants him and eventually he will be released and the club will have to eat that salary.
It will take alot of money, which, of course, they will not spend, to rebuild this staff.
By Wink from Lithonia
August 8, 2006 07:59 AM | Link to this
Tic toc, the clock has run out on the Braves division titles & playoff appearances. This team has under achieved with the help of Time Warner, GM, and mismanagement by Bobby Cox. The business choices, the trades, player developement, line up changes, no bull pen help until to late, player injuries have just blown up this season. It’s a wrap for 2006, time to write the eulogy with a headstone - Here lie the Braves 2006 in shambles - Rest in Pieces.
By Rob
August 8, 2006 08:00 AM | Link to this
All i see when i watched this team is terrible pitching and Aybar has looked terrrible at the plate while betemit is ripping it up for the dodgers. Hudson, what happened? You were dominant in Oak and have been a AA pitcher since coming over. Also Villareal is absolutely horrible. I could do what he is doing and i wouldn’t cost as much. The most frustrating thing about the bullpen is a guy will have 7 or 8 straight scoreless appearances and so cox will bring him in with a 2 run lead and they always blow it.
By mart
August 8, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this
Bring on SEC Football! (Actually I’m willing to settle for ACC football.)
By Shaun Payne
August 8, 2006 08:24 AM | Link to this
To all those down on the Betemit Trade
Do you not realize the Braves offense started struggling when Chipper went down? Chipper is the key to the offense. He ranks 10th in baseball in runs created per 27 outs. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2006&seasonType=2&sort=runsCreatedPer27Outs&type=sab&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=all
By Cornholio
August 8, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this
Look at the stiffs Schuerholz got for Johnny Estrada.
Look at the guys Schuerholz gifted to Detroit for rent-a-player Farnesworth.
Adam Wainwright looks pretty good now, another Schuerholz giveaway.
Aybar may as well be named Crowbar for what he looks like so far. Betemit will be the worst trade made in Atlanta since Brett Butler. Absolute IDIOCY !
We get Baez & Wickman a little too late, and both will likely be elsewhere next season because the Braves are stuck with big salaries to Hampton and Hudson, among others.
Hudson is a DISASTER. Call FEMA !
No speed. No contact hitters after McCann & Renteria. No fundamentals. Can’t move runners. Starting pitching sucks. Free swinging up and down the lineup.
Schuerholz is a genius ?
By Cornholio
August 8, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this
Look at the stiffs Schuerholz got for Johnny Estrada.
Look at the guys Schuerholz gifted to Detroit for rent-a-player Farnesworth.
Adam Wainwright looks pretty good now, another Schuerholz giveaway.
Aybar may as well be named Crowbar for what he looks like so far. Betemit will be the worst trade made in Atlanta since Brett Butler. Absolute IDIOCY !
We get Baez & Wickman a little too late, and both will likely be elsewhere next season because the Braves are stuck with big salaries to Hampton and Hudson, among others.
Hudson is a DISASTER. Call FEMA !
No speed. No contact hitters after McCann & Renteria. No fundamentals. Can’t move runners. Starting pitching sucks. Free swinging up and down the lineup.
Schuerholz is a genius ?
By Cornholio
August 8, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this
Look at the stiffs Schuerholz got for Johnny Estrada.
Look at the guys Schuerholz gifted to Detroit for rent-a-player Farnesworth.
Adam Wainwright looks pretty good now, another Schuerholz giveaway.
Aybar may as well be named Crowbar for what he looks like so far. Betemit will be the worst trade made in Atlanta since Brett Butler. Absolute IDIOCY !
We get Baez & Wickman a little too late, and both will likely be elsewhere next season because the Braves are stuck with big salaries to Hampton and Hudson, among others.
Hudson is a DISASTER. Call FEMA !
No speed. No contact hitters after McCann & Renteria. No fundamentals. Can’t move runners. Starting pitching sucks. Free swinging up and down the lineup.
Schuerholz is a genius ?
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this
Wilson Betemit Trade
Betemit wasn’t going to be a top offensive thirdbaseman and he doesn’t have the range to play short or second everyday. Why not trade him for another arm and a younger player who is just as good a hitter?
Yes, Aybar is just as good a hitter as Betemit. He has walked more, struck out less and has similar extra base numbers compared to Betemit throughout their pro careers.
http://thebaseballcube.com/players/A/Willy-Aybar.shtml http://thebaseballcube.com/players/B/Wilson-Betemit.shtml
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 08:45 AM | Link to this
Betemit Trade
Many of you are comparing Aybar and Betemit after a handful of plate appearances. Maybe Betemit becomes an star and Aybar flops. But based on everything I’ve looked at, neither are going to be All-Stars. And Aybar looks like the more productive hitter.
By Hal
August 8, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this
What we have learned over the course of this season is you dont enter the season with a bullpen comprised of 5 guys names Joe Blow(as in they suck)
Trying to fix the mess JS created by not addressing the bullpen issues last winter cost us a very valuable bench guy (some people just dont seem to get the value of a Betemit coming off the bench ,they might over the next few years as Chipper and Giles spend time on the bench)
This is a team whos payroll is so badly costructed that the future looks far from Rosey and ohh yea i realize Hampton will be back and win 30 next year and Davis will be back and win 25 and blah blah blah
By ColumbusBuckeye
August 8, 2006 08:54 AM | Link to this
Man, enough with the Betemit chat. He’s gone, stop dwelling. Some act as if the guy was the second coming of Christ. He was an average everyday player, with average speed. At least Aybar has a bit of a ceiling. If the Braves weren’t out of their options with Betemit last season, the guy would have never made the squad.
Let’s see this season for what it is, which I feel is a rebuilding year. We’ve got a lot of youth on this squad. Next season will return some key pieces to the bullpen, in addition to Hampton……who can really pitch if he stays healthy. As we look at it right now, the team next year will be better. That is before we add a piece here or there. If this team had a closer to start the season, we’d be the team at the top being chased (at least in the W.C.).
Realistically this team’s chances are slim to none this season. All good things must come to an end, but I still believe. It’s what keeps me pulling for these guys, and it’s what makes me a fan.
What’s the point of whining every minute of the day? There are a lot of pessimist’s on this board who like to hear themselves complain. I’m still going to root for Atlanta, and I realize that complaining on a newspaper blog will not affect John S. and his decisions. Perhaps some others should take notes.
By Greg
August 8, 2006 09:00 AM | Link to this
Our number one priority now that the season is pretty much over is to sign Baez and Wickman. Both have been lights out. With Hampton coming back, Davies healthy, Hudson (healed. I don’t care what he says, he’s hurt.), Smoltz, and maybe Ramirez, we’ll have an excellent rotation next year. Keep the solid pen that we now have, and add a leadoff man, and we may be able to give the Mets a run. Of course, the Mets will sign every available free agent that doesn’t go to the Yankees.
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this
The payroll excuse doesn’t work. Look at the Minnesota Twins and the Oakland A’s. They contend every year with payrolls lower than the Braves. If you make smart moves, you are going to contend.
Schuerholz isn’t perfect, but what GM is?
And it’s not like the end of the world. The Braves are still an average team. It could be a lot worse; the Braves aren’t the Cubs or the Pirates. If Schuerholz makes some smart moves in the offseason, the Braves should be right back in the mix next season and/or 2008 and 2009.
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this
Schuerholz deserves criticism for his bad moves, but let’s remember he built a winner here. Sure, he needs to make some bold moves to get younger and better, but let’s give him a chance to do that this offseason before we’re ready to throw him under the bus. We’ve had one average season since he took over.
By BAMA Brave
August 8, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this
Take a look at the youngsters in September? Are you kidding me. Where are they? Certainly not in Richmond where the R-Braves are the worst AAA team in the minors and are being led by a infielder with a famous last name whose hitting .180. Mississippi and all those great prospects have been at or near the Southern League basement all season. Lets face it. The Braves best prospects right now are performing in Fulton County. The next wave of players are at Myrtle Beach or Rome.
By jokurone
August 8, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this
It is really sad to see how the Braves say “we are still in it” but just can’t face the reality of not enough studs to get the job done. JS just blew it this year!!
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this
Jokurone,
What else are the players supposed to say? “We don’t have a chance and we’re looking forward to next year. I’m looking forward to having a few months off.”? I would rather here them a little dilusional than to here them say they aren’t trying. Yes, the odds are heavily against the Braves, but you never know.
Schuerholz deserves criticism for his bad moves, but let’s remember he built a winner here. Sure, he needs to make some bold moves to get younger and better, but let’s give him a chance to do that this offseason before we’re ready to throw him under the bus. We’ve had one average season since he took over.
It’s not the end of the world. The Braves are still an average team. It could be a lot worse; the Braves aren’t the Cubs or the Pirates. If Schuerholz makes some smart moves in the offseason, the Braves should be right back in the mix next season and/or 2008 and 2009.
By Jason
August 8, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this
There’s still a small glimmer of hope, but I’m almost to the point of looking to next year. Greg…you’re right. The rotation should be pretty good next year if we can just keep everyone healthy. If you ever look at the Braves’ game preview that shows the list of injuries, Atlanta has 10 guys on the list this year…more than double that of most teams. We do need a leadoff hitter. It’s probably going to be Aybar leading off and playing second base. JS isn’t gonna pay Giles the money he’ll command in arbitration. Aybar is a good player, but he needs to learn to hit left handed. He’s obviously better from the right side. We need a left fielder…we’ve played around with a platoon for several years now and it just isn’t working. A power hitting left fielder would be great or even a speedy leadoff man. That would move Aybar down in the lineup. The ideal lineup is 1. SOMEONE??? (LF or 2B) 2. Renteria 3. Chipper Jones 4. Andruw Jones 5. Brian McCann 6. Franceour 7. LaRoche 8. Aybar (or another LF or 2B) 9. Pitcher Sorry for the long winded blog…here are the top 5 off season priorities. 1. Sign Baez (to setup) and Wickman to close (unless Devine can close???) We may be able to get Wickman cheap for a year or two until Devine is really ready. They brought him up too quickly. 2. Fill the second base hole with the departure of Giles. Aybar will do and he’s actually a lifetime .300 hitter in the leadoff spot 3. Find a left fielder, this platoon crap just doesn’t work. By the time someone gets in a groove, they sit for someone else to play. 4. Teach Franceour to not swing at pitches in the dirt. He’s gonna be a great player, but I hope he’s not like Andruw and it takes him 10 years to learn the strike zone. 5. Teach LaRoche how to hit a pitch down and in. He’s been great this year, but that’s his Achilles heel. I’ve never seen a lefty that didn’t like a pitch down and in. Don’t get me wrong…he likes that pitch, he just can’t hit it…especially breaking balls down and in.
Anybody agree with me on these things? GO BRAVES!!!
By Tim Raymond
August 8, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this
QUESTION FOR BRAVES FANS:
During last nights Tigers-Twins game, the #3 hitter for the Tigers, Ivan Rodriguez, with runners on first and second, put down a BUNT. A prefect bunt for a leadoff or pitcher, never mind a catcher, right on the 3rd base lane.
Now runners on 2nd and 3rd.
The number #4 for the Tigers, takes the first pitch from the Twins pitcher and takes it to right field for a single, driving home two runs.
Now has anyone in the history of Bobby Cox baseball ever seen anything like that ( a bunt by Chipper ha!!!!! Andrew Jones going to right! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!) by the Braves.
I haven’t.
Go Tigers!
By Jason
August 8, 2006 09:30 AM | Link to this
Tim Raymond…you’re right. That’s Jim Leyland baseball. It always has been. Find ways to score…any way you can! Congrats on a great year. There are more to come as long as Leyland is there.
By steve in virginia
August 8, 2006 09:31 AM | Link to this
I love the Braves as much as the next guy. But, folks, it ain’t gonna happen this year. I recommend that the words “Braves” and “playoffs” not be used together in newspaper articles until such time as the Braves reach at least .500.
By Tim Raymond
August 8, 2006 09:31 AM | Link to this
QUESTION FOR BRAVES FANS:
During last nights Tigers-Twins game, the #3 hitter for the Tigers, Ivan Rodriguez, with runners on first and second, put down a BUNT. A prefect bunt for a leadoff or pitcher, never mind a catcher, right on the 3rd base lane.
Now runners on 2nd and 3rd.
The number #4 for the Tigers, takes the first pitch from the Twins pitcher and takes it to right field for a single, driving home two runs.
Now has anyone in the history of Bobby Cox baseball ever seen anything like that ( a bunt by Chipper ha!!!!! Andrew Jones going to right! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!) by the Braves.
I haven’t.
Go Tigers!
By Matt
August 8, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this
I’m sick of you wackos trying to call JS and Cox to the carpet… They’re the best management duo in the history of the game. No other team has put together a streak such as this with the limited funds they’ve had. I’m sick of the whining of you fairweather fans.
Certainly, this year is all but over… but where do the problems lie? An unbelievable succession of injuries, specifically to the starting staff… and where there were no injuries, we’ve had Wholers-like mental breakdowns with Hudson and Sosa.
I’ll continue to watch every game this season and see how things play out… and then I’ll get ready for the next year with great anticipation.
You fairweathers can stay at home.
By BES
August 8, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this
The Braves definately are running out of time if they haven’t already. The starting pitching just isn’t playoff caliber and the line-up is too hit or miss. I think the Braves should definately try to unload somebody this offseason. Looking through the minor league stats there is no one in the Braves system who can hit for power and there may be one or two young pitchers who will turn into consistanly productive big leaguers. The team as it stands now is not going to win this year or next year (the Mets will be back with John Maine developing and you know they’ll sign another front line starter while the Marlins will only get better). Some changes will have to be made this offseason.
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this
Tim,
How many runs would the Tigers have scored had Ivan Rodgriguez hit a double instead of wasted an out with a bunt? You play for one or two runs that’s all you’ll get.
The Tigers aren’t the best team because their #3 hitter knows how to bunt. They are the best team because of pitching/defense (they rank first in runs allowed in all of baseball) and because they rank 8th in homeruns in all of baseball.
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this
Heck, how many runs would the Tigers have scored had Ivan walked or singled instead of wasted an out with a bunt?
The Tigers aren’t the best team because their #3 hitter knows how to bunt. They are the best team because of pitching/defense (they rank first in runs allowed in all of baseball) and because they rank 8th in homeruns in all of baseball.
By Cornholio@alltel.net
August 8, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this
2008 or 2009? Smoltz will be in the old folks home !
The fruit of the Braves’ farm system is either in Atlanta or dispatched elsewhere for rent a wrecks.
Aybar is a better hitter than Betemit. Yeah, I can tell. Its real obvious !
By michael
August 8, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this
First of all Francoeur need to shut up. For a player that can’t learn the strike zone he sure talks a lot. Cox need to sit him down a few games to drive home the message. He has only been in the league about 1 year or so and he knows everything. Roger McDowell need to be fired at the end of the season. This the worst I have ever seen Smoltz and Hudson pitch. The broadcasters and the writers are giving him a free past.JS was crazy to trade Colon to Detroit for Farnsworth. The trade that sent Estrada to the Snakes has not help the bullpen at all. But the bottom line is the McDowell has to go. The Betemit trade was bad. This guy has got nothing but key hit for the Dodgers. At least he knows the strike zone.
Michael
By Jack Black
August 8, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this
It would be most appropriate for the Braves to complete the 14 consecutive divisions streak with a First to Worst finish. That would bring them full circle back to 1990/1991 when it all began.
All the talk of reaching the playoffs here is foolhardy. The discussions should revolve around whether the Braves can aviod last place.
By michael
August 8, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this
First of all Francoeur need to shut up. For a player that can’t learn the strike zone he sure talks a lot. Cox need to sit him down a few games to drive home the message. He has only been in the league about 1 year or so and he knows everything. Roger McDowell need to be fired at the end of the season. This the worst I have ever seen Smoltz and Hudson pitch. The broadcasters and the writers are giving him a free past.JS was crazy to trade Colon to Detroit for Farnsworth. The trade that sent Estrada to the Snakes has not help the bullpen at all. But the bottom line is the McDowell has to go. The Betemit trade was bad. This guy has got nothing but key hit for the Dodgers. At least he knows the strike zone.
Michael
By michael
August 8, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this
First of all Francoeur need to shut up. For a player that can’t learn the strike zone he sure talks a lot. Cox need to sit him down a few games to drive home the message. He has only been in the league about 1 year or so and he knows everything. Roger McDowell need to be fired at the end of the season. This the worst I have ever seen Smoltz and Hudson pitch. The broadcasters and the writers are giving him a free past.JS was crazy to trade Colon to Detroit for Farnsworth. The trade that sent Estrada to the Snakes has not help the bullpen at all. But the bottom line is the McDowell has to go. The Betemit trade was bad. This guy has got nothing but key hit for the Dodgers. At least he knows the strike zone.
Michael
By michael
August 8, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this
First of all Francoeur need to shut up. For a player that can’t learn the strike zone he sure talks a lot. Cox need to sit him down a few games to drive home the message. He has only been in the league about 1 year or so and he knows everything. Roger McDowell need to be fired at the end of the season. This the worst I have ever seen Smoltz and Hudson pitch. The broadcasters and the writers are giving him a free past.JS was crazy to trade Colon to Detroit for Farnsworth. The trade that sent Estrada to the Snakes has not help the bullpen at all. But the bottom line is the McDowell has to go. The Betemit trade was bad. This guy has got nothing but key hit for the Dodgers. At least he knows the strike zone.
Michael
By michael
August 8, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this
First of all Francoeur need to shut up. For a player that can’t learn the strike zone he sure talks a lot. Cox need to sit him down a few games to drive home the message. He has only been in the league about 1 year or so and he knows everything. Roger McDowell need to be fired at the end of the season. This the worst I have ever seen Smoltz and Hudson pitch. The broadcasters and the writers are giving him a free past.JS was crazy to trade Colon to Detroit for Farnsworth. The trade that sent Estrada to the Snakes has not help the bullpen at all. But the bottom line is the McDowell has to go. The Betemit trade was bad. This guy has got nothing but key hit for the Dodgers. At least he knows the strike zone.
Michael
By Paul Hamilton
August 8, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this
By the time Chipper gets off the DL AGAIN for the umpteenth time in the last 3 years the season will be over. I love Chipper, but if there is anyone we need to trade it is him for the simple reason he stays hurt every year now. Andruw hurt or healthy plays, Chipper does not. I would love to see Chipper get through the entire season with only a few bumps and bruises, but that just isnt realistic anymore. He makes way too much money to not be playing everyday.
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this
The Tigers’ pitching and defense seperates them from everybody else. Their offense is good, but there are better offenses. And the Braves have actually scored almost as many runs. The Braves offense may even be better when you take into account Atlanta’s pitchers must bat.
The Braves aren’t winning because their pitching has stunk. The Tigers are winning because their pitching/defense has been awesome and their offense has been pretty good (mainley because of the homerun).
By Hot Sauce
August 8, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this
the second year guy will have 30hr’s 100rbi’s
second year. not too shabby
my example of some one who doesn’t need to post another comment:
By hope is lost
August 8, 2006 02:38 AM | Link to this
Ya know, Francour sure talks a lot for a second year guy who is just hitting 250 with an OBP to match. I seen to remember him talking a lot before the Mets series too. Maybe next time someone someone shoves a microphone in his face he should tell them to go talk to someone who’s been around a while.
By michael
August 8, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this
First of all Francoeur need to shut up. For a player that can’t learn the strike zone he sure talks a lot. Cox need to sit him down a few games to drive home the message. He has only been in the league about 1 year or so and he knows everything. Roger McDowell need to be fired at the end of the season. This the worst I have ever seen Smoltz and Hudson pitch. The broadcasters and the writers are giving him a free past.JS was crazy to trade Colon to Detroit for Farnsworth. The trade that sent Estrada to the Snakes has not help the bullpen at all. But the bottom line is the McDowell has to go. The Betemit trade was bad. This guy has got nothing but key hit for the Dodgers. At least he knows the strike zone.
Michael
By Tim Raymond
August 8, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this
You play for one or two runs that’s all you’ll get.
That statement makes no sense at at all. The Tigers scored 9. ‘Count em. No need what if’s. They scored NINE RUNS vs. Francisco Liriano, the American League ERA leader.
I will admit that before Turner Field Bobby Cox playing for the big inning at Fulton County made sense, but Turner Field is not the hitters park that Fulton Co. was, you have a huge gap in rt field was is it 390? and you still have morons like Giles pulling off every pitch, trying to yank one over the left field wall.
By Justin
August 8, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this
For all you people that think JS is a genius! BC built this team and the farm system when he was the GM. mot JS! BC was a great GM, but not a Manager! Get rid of JS! Put Bobby back as the GM and get us a good Manager, plus new pitching, and hitting coach!
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this
The Tigers scored nine runs because of 3 doubles, 2 homers, 4 walks and 13 hits total not because their #3 hitter can bunt.
Like I said, the Braves offense is probably just as good when you take into account our pitchers have to bat. We’ve scored almost as many runs as Detroit. Pitching is our problems and Detroit doesn’t have that problem.
By Chica
August 8, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this
From what I’ve read, Chipper Jones’ contract is structured in such a way that he can’t be dealt so easily. His contract is backloaded, so now the Braves actually owe him money, whether he’s on the bench or on the field. Besides, he’s achieved 10-5 status, so he’d likely veto a trade anyway. He wants to retire a Brave. Too bad he can only play for 1/3 of a season at a time.
Anyhoo, I’m none too confident that the Braves will reach the playoffs this year. You guys have already stated why, so I won’t bother repeating. There needs to be a shake up in personnel if this team wants to compete next year. The NL East is more competitive than it used to be - and the Braves won’t win it on “reputation”.
By mark
August 8, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this
Psst … Bobby and John … you don’t realize it but … you’ve retired. You just haven’t told anyone yet. When you hit sixty +, it’s time to move on. Hang ‘em up, boys. There is life after baseball.
By Chica
August 8, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
BTW, for those of you calling for Cox’s and JS’s heads, who would you recommend fill the manager and/or GM positions for the Braves? Who’s likely to be available, especially at the managerial position?
By Greg from Marietta
August 8, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
* Does anybody miss Leo Mazzoni as much as the Braves do??*
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this
Small Ball Sucks!
Wasting outs with bunts is just dumb. The teams that score the most runs are the teams that get get on base and get more extra-base hits than anyone else.
The Colorado Rockies lead baseball in sacrifice hits by a large margin. Do you know where they rank in runs scored? Twentyfourth!
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this
The real reason the Tigers scored 9 runs last night
The Tigers scored nine runs because of 13 hits (including 3 doubles and 2 homers) not because their #3 hitter can bunt.
Like I said, the Braves offense is probably just as good when you take into account our pitchers have to bat. We’ve scored almost as many runs as Detroit. Pitching is our problem and Detroit doesn’t have that problem.
By ebineezer
August 8, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this
Why did Bobby leave Villareal in so long? The Phillies are just crushing balls and he leaves him in. After the second ball bounces off the wall its time for him to go. After the game is over its too late to make a pitching change. Did yall see Francure walk? I could not believe it. LaRouch look terrible striking out on 3 identical pitches in the exact same spot. That was some good pitching. It was also some sorry hitting not to recognize that pitch after seeing it twice already in the same spot. It looked like a total lack of concentration.
By Mark
August 8, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this
Small ball wins in the playoffs Shaun. When you are facing good pitching every night the odds are you not going to have many innings where you get 3 of 4 straight hits. Maybe that is why the braves have sucked for so long in the playoff. They had many opportunities this past weekend against Cincinnati. There were many times where it was 1st and 2nd nobody out and the next batter could have bunted the runners along. Of course they didn’t do and look what happened. The lack of small ball has hurt the braves for years. I hated when Bobby is sittin around waiting on a homerun letting opportunities go by
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this
Oh, ane the Tigers walked 4 times, too. That’s 17 times reaching base and that’s why the Tigers scored 9 runs.
By Jason
August 8, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this
I’ll keep hope as long as we’re not mathematically eliminated. The Dodgers were 7 games out of the wild card on July 28 with 7 teams ahead of them. They are now tied for the lead. Anything is possible.
By Akagi
August 8, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this
The Braves won’t even reach .500 let alone make the playoffs. Before last night to get to .500, the Braves had to go 30-22 over the final 52 games. The best the Braves have done over 52 games this season is 27-25—if they matched that they would finish 78-84 and I don’t see how a 78-84 team makes the post-season. And going 3-7 over their last 10, they may well finish much much worse.
By Gota love em
August 8, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this
This team cant do it. Something or someone is always falling. If its not Huddy going 3-4 innings and getting blasted then its Rameriz pulling a hammy or hurting a finger. If not him then its Chipper pulling his back or hurting his foot, or hurting his side.
Lets face it, they have to many demanded players always out on the hurt bench. You cant have a lineup of Chipper, Giles then your pitching staff of Hudson (no good) and Rameriz (hurt) then throw in minor league pitchers who are not good enough to be here starting games for you. It just does not work.
I suggest that we clear the DL players this offseason and come back with proven talent in their place who can at least stay healthy 3/4 of the season. This in and out stuff is tearing apart this team and we can no longer accept it. Chipper and his big bucks has really got to go. He is no longer helping us but hurting us with him large money and no playing time. And he will only get worse. Lets cut our loses. I’m out of Mylanta in Atlanta.
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
Mark,
Small ball does not win in the playoffs. Front-line starters and a good offense wins in the playoffs. And luck wins in the playoffs.
What’s hurt the Braves in the playoffs is their offense goes cold (except for last year when it was our pitching).
Even if small ball did win in the playoffs, how are you going to get to the playoffs without scoring enough runs in the regular season. And you score runs by getting on base and avoiding outs. You only have so many outs, so wasting them is not wise, in almost all cases. (There are very few cases where a sac bunt might help you, like when you only need one run.)
You need to read Baseball Between the Numbers. It explains what wins in the post-season and that wasting outs is dumb. At it backs it up with more than enough evidence.
By Chica
August 8, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
We must also ask ourselves, what good would this team be in the playoffs? With their troubles during the regular season, would you really expect them to make it out of the NLCS? Let alone win a series against the Mets? I’d love for them to go to the playoffs just to keep the streak (and morale) alive, but we’re fooling ourselves if we think this current team could compete in the postseason.
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
Mark,
You don’t sit around and wait for homeruns. Your hitters have to get on base with hits and walks. Homeruns are the most efficient offensive weapon, but getting on-base any other way is good. The more baserunners, the better chance you have of scoring. On-base percentage correlates with winning more than any other single percentage or rate stat. Check out Baseball Dynasies by Rob Neyer and Eddie Epstein. Almost all great teams in baseball history have one thing in common: they all get on base far more than their opponents.
By Sam
August 8, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
Will someone please start writing about Francoeur’s AWFUL approach to hitting? What the heck are the coaches doing? The guy walks up, flails at the first 3 pitches he sees. It’s absolutely pathetic.
Why don’t the coaches make him take a strike? Pitchers continue to make him chase pitches low and away.
The problem is even more profound in big momements. Maybe it’s adrenaline, but come on…where is the patience?
Please teach this very talented player some discipline…how to make pitchers come to him, how to read pitch counts, how to work your way into favorable pitch counts.
It looks like we have a Double A hitter as a key component right now. I just haven’t seen the maturity. We really need his bat and the current approach doesn’t appear to be working.
Any thoughts?
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this
Sam,
Francouer is not ready offensively. But he’s cheap and he’s a great defensive player. And he’s not the worst offensive regular in baseball. It looks like he hasn’t really developed a plan for hitting. He just goes up looking to hit a homer without waiting on a pitch he can handle.
By Jeff
August 8, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this
Braves making the wildcard. Not likely. First, do the math:just to play a game over .500, the Braves will have to go 31-20 (.607) for the balance of the season. The Braves haven’t had a stretch as long all season where they’ve played .600 ball.
Second, a team that’s making a run for the playoffs usually beats the teams ahead of them. Didn’t beat the Mets or the Reds and may just lose the series to the Phillies. They beat the Pirates—so what?
It’s all about pitching, and getting clobbered again (this time surrendering nine runs)is at the heart of the problem.
Time for the Braves to rebuild (I suspect management is already quietly planning for 2007). There’s some good young talent on this team, some coming up through the farm system. Management needs to jettison the likes of Tim Hudson and other dead wood, free up payroll and augment the team’s core young pitchers with steady, capable vets.
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this
Willy Aybar and Wilson Betemit
No it’s not obvious that Aybar is better than Betemit. It does seem obvious that Aybar is likely to be as good a hitter or better than Betemit, based on the numbers throughout their pro careers. (More BB, fewer K, similar extra-base numbers.)
By Knockahoma
August 8, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
Time for the Braves to abandon the playoff talk and focus on avoiding a First to Worst finish to this 14 year run. That said, there would be a certain element of poetry given the run started with a Worst to First in 1991.
By Pelican fan
August 8, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this
Detroit is doing well much because of its starting pitching. Zach Miner (7-2) is a big part of that rotation. Remember him? Schuerholz, in one of those trades that the media seems to forget, traded him and Colon to Detroit to rent Farnsworth for a couple of months. Most likely, Baez and Wickman will follow the same path.
Aybar as good as Betemit? Surely only Cox would believe such a thing. I think it is safe to say that the Dodgers would not reverse the trade.
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this
Willy Aybar and Wilson Betemit
No it’s not obvious that Aybar is better than Betemit. It does seem obvious that Aybar is likely to be as good a hitter or better than Betemit, based on the numbers throughout their pro careers. (More BB, fewer K, similar extra-base numbers.)
By Connie Lingous
August 8, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this
Agree with the above poster - Frenchy needs to shut his mouth, he’s embarassing himself.
By mike p
August 8, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this
I liked Betemit, but he was not as great as some of you make him out to be. Look at his stats since going to L.A.:
First 2 games — 5/9 .556 avg., 1 R, 1 HR, 2 RBI, 1 K
6 Games since — 3/23 .130 avg, 1 HR, 1 RBI, 7 K’s
8 games total — 8/32 .250 avg, 2 HR, 3 RBI, 8 K’s
Aybar’s Stats: First game — 4/6 .667 avg, 2 R, 2RBI 7 Games since — 5/29 .172 avg, 3 R, 0 RBI, 6 K’s
8 Games Total — 9/35 .257 avg, 5 R, 2 RBI, 6 K’s
Almost identical stats. Plus we got Baez.
By Trade Schuerholz
August 8, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this
Trade Schuerholz!…
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
Pelican Fan,
No the Dodgers wouldn’t reverse the trade because they get a guy who is adequate to play thirdbase. But the Braves wouldn’t reverse the trade either. They got another arm for the bullpen and a young hitter similar to Betemit that maybe be better. Aybar is just as valuable as Betemit was to us. You can say we needed Betemit because now we don’t have an adequate replacement at thirdbase. But without Chipper, we’re screwed offensively anyway. And Aybar can fill in at third. I don’t know what everyone is looking at, but Aybar’s numbers thoughout his pro career look just as good as Betemit’s numbers throughout his pro career.
By Shaun
August 8, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this
Mike P,
I agree that Betemit is overrated by many Braves fans, but you can’t judge a player based on a couple of weeks worth of games. But, yes, over their entire pro careers it looks like Aybar is just as good or better.
By H_Charles
August 8, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this
Where are all the Braves apologists who kept saying “be a true fan and be optimistic — this team will make the playoffs!” Funny how those bloggers now are quite silent. As I’ve been saying for months, this team is DONE. They have been dead for quite a while. Not enough starting pitching. Bullpen is better, but too little too late. The Braves need to take several steps to avoid this pitfall next year. 1) Resign Baez and Wickman. With those guys in the 8th and ninth, McBride against lefties and hopefully Boyer in the 7th, the bullpen will be solid next year (of course, the miserly Braves will probably let one if not both disappear in the offseason). 2) Sign or trade for a legit #2 starter. Hudson is either injured or done. Smoltz will be fine, and Davies a good 4. But we need a legit #2 since Hudson is a shadow of his former self. Relying on big question marks (HAmpton, Ramirez, Thompson) is how we got in this mess in the first place. 3) Find a way to get a LF who can bat leadoff, ala Carl Crawford. This team sorely lacks a leadoff man that can work the count, draw walks, and steal bases. Right now we have ZERO methods for manufacturing runs, and since we don’t have lineup like Boston, we need more of that. 4) Move Francour down in the order until he learns to be a ML hitter. Cox said he is fine with Frenchy’s production at the #6 hole, but the fact is right now that is THE most important spot in the order, just behind Jones and McCann. That spot HAS to work the count, move runners over, and strikeout rarely. Frenchy is the opposite, and his at bats KILL us. He needs to be in teh 7 spot until he learns to be more patient.
By mike p
August 8, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this
I liked Betemit, but he was not as great as some of you make him out to be. Look at his stats since going to L.A.:
First 2 games — 5/9 .556 avg., 1 R, 1 HR, 2 RBI, 1 K
6 Games since — 3/23 .130 avg, 1 HR, 1 RBI, 7 K’s
8 games total — 8/32 .250 avg, 2 HR, 3 RBI, 8 K’s
Aybar’s Stats: First game — 4/6 .667 avg, 2 R, 2RBI 7 Games since — 5/29 .172 avg, 3 R, 0 RBI, 6 K’s
8 Games Total — 9/35 .257 avg, 5 R, 2 RBI, 6 K’s
Almost identical stats. Plus we got Baez.
By Will
August 8, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
Alot of people out there in these blogs root really hard when the Braves are winning as soon as they lose its Bobby’s Fault Fire JS. When Chipper does come back it will balance out the team. Im just praying Bobby does not move Giles out the Two hole I honestly think Renteria should hit 5th with him getting on base and MCann In the 6th hole they can be a lower down the lineup tandem. Francoer 7th Roche 8th. Thats alot of Thunder but we need to balance it all out. Pitching I dont know what is Wrong With Huddy I been thinking about Hampton imagine him in the rotation. Wickie and Baez we have to stop giving up our kids for guys that are here 1 or 2 months then leave we need to keep these players cause we always have nothing to show at the end of the season.
By H_Charles
August 8, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this
Also, those bashing Schuerholtz need to reevaluate. Remember what he is working with, payroll wise. He has to keep talent here and bring in the needed pieces without the luxury of signing a big name free-agent. You have to give something to get something, and it isn’t his fault that the front office refuses to spend the cash to keep the players he trades for. Farnsworth was huge for us last year, and enough money this year would have kept him. Drew continues to be an all-star quality OF, if only the Braves had opened the wallet to keep him in Atlanta. He does the best with what he has, although not perfect, and has won 14 division titles. The A’s and Twins combined don’t come close to his track record.
By mike p
August 8, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
I agree with you completely. I was just posting those numbers because people were saying that Betemit fueled the Dodger win streak, when in reality he has been dismal the last 6 games or so. Time will tell that both Aybar and Betemit are average hitters with solid fielding. I think the trade worked out fine for both.
By Will
August 8, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this
Alot of people out there in these blogs root really hard when the Braves are winning as soon as they lose its Bobby’s Fault Fire JS. When Chipper does come back it will balance out the team. Im just praying Bobby does not move Giles out the Two hole I honestly think Renteria should hit 5th with him getting on base and MCann In the 6th hole they can be a lower down the lineup tandem. Francoer 7th Roche 8th. Thats alot of Thunder but we need to balance it all out. Pitching I dont know what is Wrong With Huddy I been thinking about Hampton imagine him in the rotation. Wickie and Baez we have to stop giving up our kids for guys that are here 1 or 2 months then leave we need to keep these players cause we always have nothing to show at the e