AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2006 > June > 30 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USMazzone not appreciated enough
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Terence Moore
The absolutely disgusting venom for Leo Mazzone was there Friday night at Turner Field, but it was invisible. A couple of Braves exchanged warm hugs with Mazzone during batting practice in the left-field corner. Bobby Cox never saw his old pitching coach of 15 seasons before the game after sauntering toward the visitors’ dugout, but he told Baltimore Orioles manager Sam Perlozzo that he’d catch up with Mazzone later.
There also were all of those cheers from the choppers and the chanters for Mazzone when he walked down the left-field line to see Orioles starting pitcher Daniel Cabrera warming in the bullpen.
Mazzone was visibly moved. “If you don’t think I feel awkward sitting (in the visitors’ dugout), I do,” said Mazzone, fighting misty eyes. He was a significant force behind the Braves’ 14 consecutive division titles, five pennants and world championship, but he was justified after last season to leave town for a lot of pennies to join Perlozzo, his best friend, in Baltimore. “We have a chance to build something, and we have some building blocks, speaking from the pitching end only, and it’s been great. Not that I don’t miss the other side.”
The question is: Does the other side miss Mazzone?
That’s debatable.
Actually, it’s not. At best when you mention Mazzone among those with tomahawks across their chests, indifference reigns. That was underscored by many of his former coworkers keeping their distance Friday. Although Mazzone is the greatest pitching coach ever, his personality is sort of, well, let the Orioles’ Javy Lopez tell it. “Just like that guy on ‘American Idol,’ ” said Lopez, the former Braves catcher, laughing, while comparing Mazzone, the former Braves pitching coach, to Simon Cowell, the owner of a famously blunt tongue. Added Lopez, of Mazzone or Cowell, “You don’t like him, but you know what? He’s honest.”
Yes, Mazzone is. We’re talking brutally honest, which is the hallmark of those from Knute Rockne to Vince Lombardi to Pat Riley — you know, winners. Still, when Mazzone left for Baltimore, there was either silence or glee around the Braves’ clubhouse. Said Mazzone, rolling his eyes as he moved before the game along the tunnel from the visiting dugout to the Orioles clubhouse, “I’m not surprised to hear anything in this game. To me, it’s really not that big of deal.”
It’s not as big as the Braves’ ERA, for instance. Or that of the Orioles, for that matter. While the Braves’ pitching has imploded since Mazzone left with a resume that featured his Atlanta staff finishing either first or second in the majors in ERA for 12 seasons, the Orioles came to town with their pitchers walking more folks than anybody and owning the second-worst ERA in the American League.
In this one, the Orioles’ pitching was slightly worse than that of the Braves during a 5-3 defeat. So, to hear the Leo Bashers tell it, the whole thing regarding Mazzone’s departure and the arrival of new pitching coach Roger McDowell is a wash. They wish to believe that Mazzone’s effectiveness in Atlanta was the result of Cy Maddux, Cy Glavine and Cy Smoltz instead of the other way around.
Whatever. Mazzone is only midway through his first year in Baltimore with a new system, and he hasn’t the Orioles of Palmer, McNally, Cuellar and Dobson. Even so, Lopez said the Orioles’ ugly pitching numbers are frauds. “If you compare this to the previous two years, you see the progress, because Leo is helping the pitchers keep us in games,” Lopez said. “He wants what he wants, and his temper is what makes him who he is. It definitely is getting results, because you see that the pitchers are going in a straight line.”
Or else. Before the game, Mazzone leaned forward in the visitor’s dugout to get a better view of what stretched high above the bleachers in left-center field. “I want to make sure that my pitchers look at those pennant flags,” he said, with a wide smile that kept growing. “I want them to see them, because that’s what it’s all about.”
Then Mazzone thought about Cox, the Braves manager that he rocked next to in dugouts around the majors. Once, he told me that Cox was like his second father. “I’m going to wear dark sunglasses tonight,” Mazzone said. “That way I can peak over there during the game at one of the greatest men I met in my life.”
Too bad more in the Braves world don’t relish the greatest coach (pitching or otherwise) they’ll ever have.
Permalink | Comments (22) | Post your comment | Categories: Braves / MLB, Terence Moore
Comments
By Don
June 30, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this
Let me be blunt. I think Mazzone gets far more credit than he is due. When Jason Marquis was asked to name one thing Mazzone did to make him a better pitcher, Marquis answered, “Nothing that I can think of.”
I cannot recall any pitcher whose career was turned around for the good by Mazzone.
And, of course, who wouldn’t look good with Smoltz, Glavine, and Maddux as well as Neagle and Averyu in their primes and even good years from Leibrandt? Leo was fortunate to have talented “pupils”.
By Anne
June 30, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this
I’m not a Mazzone basher. In fact, I thought I would get sick when I read he had left Atlanta back in November. I’ll definitely always appreciate 14 great years, whether he should get all of the credit or not. Smoltz certainly gave him plenty of credit in recent quotes I have read, and I was glad to see that because Mazzone was with the Braves for a long time.
That said, I think McDowell has done an okay job. The results aren’t what you’d like, but the pitching has been in decline for the last couple of years. He seems to be nicely accepted by the players, and I don’t think you can truly judge someone purely by early returns.
It’s like Bobby said in the spring. If you praise one guy, it sounds like you’re putting the other guy down, and vice versa. I will always remember Mazzone and what he meant to the Braves, and hope McDowell will give me as many great memories.
By T Robb
July 1, 2006 12:16 AM | Link to this
John Burkett. Jaret Wright. Mike Remlinger. Chris Hammond. Russ Ortiz. Darren Holmes. I could go on, but I strongly disagree with your contention, Don, that Leo Mazzone had no impact on those careers.
I am aware that he didn’t have similar success with Jason Marquis. Looking at his 6.00 ERA in St. Louis, it looks like the sainted Dave Duncan hasn’t had much success with the hard-headed punk, either.
Leo is the best in the business. I think Glavine’s comment is more relevant - “Guys don’t like to hear it, but chances are, if Leo’s telling you something, you need to hear it - whether you like it or not.”
All spring and this season I hear how nice and friendly Roger McDowell is. I’d rather have a pitching coach that kicks a little a*, makes guys uncomfortable and has a team ERA of 3.00 than Miss Congeniality with an ERA of 5.00.
And yes, I’m aware of Baltimore’s struggles. They’re in the AL, in a hitter’s park, with less talent and they’re moving in the right direction.
I’d take Leo back faster than you can say “command the down and away fastball.”
By LittleChopofHorrors
July 1, 2006 02:48 AM | Link to this
So if Bobby Cox is the greatest manager ever (according to Mark Bradley) and Leo Mazzone is the greatest pitching coach ever (according to Mark Bradley AND Terence Moore), why in hell do the Braves only have one world title during Bobby and Leo’s reign? The hitting and bullpen coaches must have really sucked all those years to bring this dynamic duo down.
Maybe AJC writers are just the greatest exaggerators ever.
By Jacquelyn
July 1, 2006 06:09 AM | Link to this
The Braves should had Mazone on contract and not on year to year salary. Braves run of NL East champions is over will never return again. Braves let the most important part leave their team!!!
By Jacquelyn
July 1, 2006 06:09 AM | Link to this
The Braves should had Mazone on contract and not on year to year salary. Braves run of NL East champions is over will never return again. Braves let the most important part leave their team!!!
By DG
July 1, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this
Reality check. Mazzone is a good pitching coach but hardly the reason for the Braves success or lack of it (of late). Somehow I don’t think he would have jumped ship if he still had Maddux, Glavine or Smoltz—childhood friend calling or not. You can only do so much with young inexperienced pitchers (and a young inexperience catcher) and IMHO McDowell has done well. The “Braves way” is really what has distinguished this franchise for the last 15 years—and in the long run the loss that will be felt the most is the loss of Dayton Moore and not Mazzone (I live in Orioles country and nobody believes Mazzone will do anything for this wretched franchise).
By W. E. SHOEMAKER
July 1, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this
bobby cox is not the smart manager everybody says he is, he doesn’t know how to hangle a pitching staff, he wears the pitcher out, example the rookies warming up four time before finally bringing him into the game. i remember during the world serier citgo gason running bobby out of pitchers.
By Don
July 1, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this
TRobb, the pitchers you name all had “temporary revivals” in Atlanta. No real turnarounds. Was their abreviated success a result of a change of scenery or “Mazzone magic”? Since many pitchers (and position players) seem to prosper with a change of teams, I have a hard time giving Leo the credit. Do we give Tom Hume the credit for the revival of Bronson Arroyo? How about the Met’s coach for Tommy Glavine? Or the Whitesox coach for some of their pitchers? We could go on and on.
I still say Leo gets far too much credit (as also do Cox and Schuerholz) and I invite anyone to offer real, concrete facts to disprove my belief.
By Robert
July 1, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this
Unbelievable. How can you people deny that Mazzone was the reason for the Braves’ success.
He was here, we won. He is gone, we stink. It’s as plain as day
Of course, the fact that people who think Bobby Cox hung the moon can not follow simple logic is hardly surprising
Fire Eeyore. Fire him today
There’s a donkey in the dugout clap your hands (Hee-Haw) There’s a donkey in the dugout clap your hands (Hee Haw) Cox is a donkey and we know it. He always finds a way to blow it. There’s a donkey in the dugout clap your hands (HEE HAW)
By Tom
July 1, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this
Yeah, Don. It’s a simple as that, Einstein. Pitchers change teams and that’s the reason they turn in great seasons. Duhhh….ok!
Hammond’s team before the Braves was a farm in Alabama…he was OUT of baseball. He comes to the Braves and turns in one of the great relief seasons of all time. (look up his numbers) He leaves and has never been the same.
But he has switched teams several times, Don. Shouldn’t he be having great turnarounds with each move?
The evidence of Mazzone’s greatness is on the past rosters if you care to look them up.
If you can’t see what he did for us after several of the examples listed by a previous blogger, you’re pretty thick-headed (and lacking in intelligence).
So Mazzone sucks, Don?
By bobby
July 1, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this
No doubt Leo is a good coach but be realistic, how many games did he pitch? Me thinks when you don,t have the horses, you can’t pull the plow.
By Ben
July 1, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this
Don- Cox and Shuerholtz deserve all the credit they get. If you talk to anyone around baseball… they will tell you why the Braves went on a 14 year run. The Braves were bottom dwellers for years until those two came on the scene. With ownership changes and drastic payroll cuts, they have managed to still win every year. That is a tribute to both of them. Bobby Cox will be a first ballot Hall of Famer, and he deserves to be so. But, in your opinion, all of baseball is wrong I guess. There is not one player that has ever said anything bad about Bobby Cox. He has been around the majors for 45 years, and he probably knows a little more about it than you do. Why do you think that managers/GM’s today try to emulate Cox and Shuerholtz? You and Robert obviously do not have a clue about baseball!
By Opie fair Play
July 1, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
You Braves fans make me sick. One bad year in 15 and all you can do it talk sh++. Leo is a great pitching coach, maybe the best in the game. Both sides could be right however, you can be a great coach, but if you don’t have the horses it may not look that way. Lay off Bobby Cox, fans in Seattle would kill to have a manager that great for so long, we are still reeling from Lou Pinella leaving 4 years ago.
By Wedgie Evans
July 1, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Terence Moore deserves a standing ovation for this article. It’s about damn time we stopped s** on Leo Mazzone and gave him the credit he deserves.
By Phillie Fanatic
July 1, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
I agree with Opie. Lay off of Cox and Shuerholtz. Just about any team in baseball would love to have that tandem. Most fans envy what they have accomplished despite losing key players every year. Bobby is a tremendous manager, and people all across baseball know that. You guys are spoiled! The first taste of losing and you jump all over the guys who got you this far.
By Coxblowsanother
July 1, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this
One WS title and Cox Shuerholz and Mazzone are the greatest baseball minds ever. Give me a break. Cox has blown more games by his decisions than won. In reality, the braves win in spite of Cox and a monkey could’ve managed this team with the pitching staff he’s had. Oh, to predict Cox just go by the righty lefty philosophy he’s run into the ground. Had Torre stayed, we’re looking at 3 WS championships.
By Oe bad year...
July 1, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this
Wow, lots of haters out there after a tough first half. I guess that is why the stadium never sells out. Name me one team out there (other than the Yankees, of course) that you would rather have been the past 15 years.
The Marlins? Well according to many of you on this blog, they must be the more successful team because they have two championships, right? So, the when they sell their team off the next season-it really is a stroke of genious, huh?
The Mets? Would you rather trade the Braves success (or lack thereof) the last 15 years for the Mets?? Please.
How about the Expos/Nationals? Nah, probably not.
The Phillies? Hell, I hope no team from Philthadelphia is the envy of Braves fans.
Let’s admit it. The Braves aren’t that good this year. They SHOULDN’T have been last year either, but still found a way to win. Last time I checked there were no magic numbers posted yet, so instead of constantly bashing Cox/Mazzone/Schuerholtz, lets look back and appreciate the run. One of the best runs in sports history (even if it was only one world series). But judging by attendance the last few years, that still isn’t good enough.
So, maybe you guys that are so unhappy with Cox/Schuerholtz/etc., can suggest a manager and general manager to turn this “failed franchise” into winners, you know, like the Marlins. Or better yet, just become Yankee fans, you bunch of bandwagon jumpers.
Everybody off the train. The Braves aren’t having a good season, so lets blame those that were a part of the 14 division titles. Because that is obviously nothing to be proud of. This whole time, it would have been better to be watching the (Place team here)_.
By Cubbie
July 1, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this
Coxblows- do you think there are 25 other teams in this league that would love to say they had one title? I know I would love to say we won a title. Be glad you at least one a title. 80% of the league would love to claim a title in the last 15 yrs. The Braves truly have a great manager. Much better than the one we have, but Dusty will be fired pretty soon. No one said they were the “best minds ever” you idiot. But, they are two of the best the last 20 years. So, quit hating on your team or go root for another. “Fans” like you make me sick.
By Jimbo
July 1, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this
Coxblows- you truly are an idiot! If Cox had a 200 million dollar payroll to work with every year, like your boy Torre, he probably would have 4 titles himself. Thank you Bobby for what you have done for the city of Atlanta. You have brought the city of Atlanta its only championship. So, Thank you!!
By RobertH
July 1, 2006 11:34 PM | Link to this
Mazzone leaving Atlanta is a separate issue from us being stuck with McDowell. Eveyrone at one point or another leaves and has to be replaced. But I’m still waiting for someone to show me exactly what in McDowell’s resume indicated that he was ready for a job of this magnitude. He has yet to prove that he can be successful at any level. It’s not just that he’s never been a MLB pitching coach. His team ERA at Las Vegas last year, for example, was over 6.00. His starters had ERAs over 7.00 and 8.00. And I really getting sick and tired of every Braves announcer spouting the corporate line in support of McDowell. He is absolutely pathetic.
In addition, I’m sick and tired to seeing Fredy Gonzalez get runners thrown out at the plate from here to Valdosta. He absolutely killed a big rally tonight. Thorman was out so far that the LF could have rolled the ball home and had him out. He could have thrown it to the frigging backstop and the catcher would have had time to go get the ball and tag out Thorman. And again, Don Sutton and Chip Caray spout the corporate line and support Gonzalez by saying it took a perfect throw to get him. No, it didn’t. I could have thrown him out. We had Ortiz on the ropes, the bases would have been loaded for Andrew, and the McCann, we’re down by three, and Gonzalez sends him. What an idiot. Anyone with any sense knows that you don’t take the bats out of the hands of Jones and McCann. This happens way too often. It’s just that McDowell and Pendleton have been so pathetic that Gonzalez doesn’t get as much attention as he should, but he has no business in a Braves uniform, either.
I’ve had it. If McDowell, Pendleton, or Gonzalez are back in the spring, then whoever decides to bring them back needs to be fired…Cox’s and Schuerholz’s 14 titles not withstanding.
By Don
July 2, 2006 12:23 AM | Link to this
Good to see Tom and you others posting these glowing testimonials for Mazzone. It would lead one to believe that, if the Braves just had Leo, they would be in the pennant race. I don’t think his presence would mean squat. But, then, that is just my opinion.