AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2006 > May > 26 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USDuke women show lack of sensitivity
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Jeff Schultz
I wasn’t in the room. I don’t know what happened any more than you do, any more than the Duke women’s lacrosse team does. But unless they’re in possession of some secret video tape, the Duke women shouldn’t proclaim it’s going to write, “Innocent!” on its wristbands for an NCAA tournament game any more than I should write a story about rape allegations with a headline that screams, “Guilty!”
I wasn’t there. You weren’t there. They weren’t there.
If you missed it, the Duke women’s lacrosse players stretched the bounds of free speech past the stupidity dividing line. They said they would wear sweatbands with the word, “innocent,” on their arms and legs for Friday night’s national semifinal against Northwestern. It would be a show of support for the men’s lacrosse team, specifically the three players who have been indicted for rape.
Somebody must have been scorched by the backdraft. When the players walked out for warm-ups at Boston University, players had motivational words, “No excuses, no regrets,” written on the bands. But several wrote the numbers 6, 13 and 45 on bands around their lower legs, obvious references to David Evans (6), Collin Finnerty (13) and Reade Seligmann (45), who have been indicted for rape.
“The damage already has been done,” said Kathy Redmond, anticipating the women’s team might back off its threat. “They made a knee-jerk decisions that probably caused more reaction than they thought. These are stupid, spoiled little girls. It smacks of high school. Maybe one day when they’ll read about one of their friends who was raped. Then they’ll rethink this.”
Maybe you’ve heard of Redmond. She wasn’t in the room either. But she’s closer to an expert on this case than the rest of us. She founded the National Coalition Against Violent Athletes in 1997. She became high profile in 1995 after alleging former Nebraska defensive lineman Christian Peter raped her. The case never went to trial and a subsequent civil lawsuit against Peter and the school was settled out of court.
Redmond also is a lacrosse player. She competed at Nebraska. She still plays today. She understands the culture of lacrosse athletes, and believes the public stance of the women’s team stems primarily from a we’re-all-in-this together mentality.
“More than any other sport, there’s this mentality with women lacrosse players of, ‘We’re as tough as the men,’” Redmond said. “It’s almost like a competition. It’s like they try to carry themselves with a masculine edge. They want to be looked at as being just as good as the men, yet they still look to the men for validation. It’s a very weird dynamic that you don’t see in women’s basketball or any other sport. It all goes back to the elitist class issue in this case. It’s like, ‘We all come from the same place.’ Lacrosse is still very much a niche sport, and there are cliques involved.”
Redmond believes that if it were Duke basketball players who were being accused of rape, “The women’s basketball team wouldn’t think of taking this public stance.”
Neither Duke nor the NCAA objected to the threatened wristbands. Kerri Fagan, the NCAA’s associate director of championships, said Friday there is no bylaw that prohibits the message. She actually put it in the same category as players wearing a number as a way to honor a deceased teammate. “It’s an institutional decisional,” Fagan said.
That institution, Duke, even allowed women’s coach Kerstin Kimel to invite fired men’s coach Mike Pressler to address the team this week.
“I’m surprised [the women players] didn’t fear any reprisals from Duke,” Redmond said. “It tells me that the school is still taking this less seriously than it should.”
She was not surprised by the NCAA’s stance, saying: “The NCAA is a nice figurehead organization that collects a lot of money. But they’re basically worthless. They could do a lot about the culture and violence that exists in college athletics. But they’re making a lot of money, so they don’t.”
A 27-year-old African American stripper says she was raped by three white lacrosse players from one of the nation’s most prestigious universities. That’s going to incite emotions on several levels.
But for college athletes to take their opinion of rape allegations onto the field of an NCAA championship event crosses a line. This isn’t an on-campus war protest. It’s rape. And I would imagine that if the women believed something illegal had occurred at that men’s lacrosse party, nobody would write, “Guilty!” on their jersey.
Permalink | Comments (71) | Categories: Jeff Schultz, Tech / ACC
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By Sogadog
May 26, 2006 09:37 PM | Link to this
This was an another great column but, I can’t wait to read some of the responses.
By Tyrone
May 26, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this
Women’s Lacrosse… who cares!!!!
By J. Wilk
May 26, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this
Bug is really up your bee-hind on this one, jeffy. Considering the d.a. is trying to railroad these lads into the clink (phony lineup, persecution of a defense witness, refusal to allow examination of ‘victim’ cell phone, lack of toxicology lab work on ‘victim’ etc.), there are bigger fish to fry than >boo hoo< lack of “sensitivity.” You obviously believe they are guilty of raping the stripper/ho, so why not bottle the disingenuous remakrs?
By bob
May 26, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this
Who CARES?! As long as the girls weren’t forced to wear the bands, it doesn’t matter. It is everyone’s individual decision to wear the bands. The fact that the school hasn’t said anything maybe shows that they support their students/athletes. If they feel like wearing the bands of the indicted athletes, who cares? It just shows that they support their friends/fellow athletes. Just because the boys were indicted, doesn’t mean they are guilty of anything. You come down hard on the team for supporting boys who are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. This story makes it seem as if they are already convicted.
By TheMajor
May 26, 2006 10:17 PM | Link to this
Wow! Is Kathy Redmond on her knees with Nancy Grace and her CNN Guilty Posse every night praying that the rich white boys raped that poor black girl or what?
So does Kathy plan to live her entire life trying to get back at white male athletes for what her perv ex-boyfriend did (or didn’t) do to her? Or will she stop her crusade if a few innocent boys have their lives ruined because of the lies of a skanky stripper with a record who panicked when a cop flashed his light into her face?
You are SO-O-O on the wrong side of this as you clearly have the GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT stamp on your forehead. You’re not letting the appalling lack of evidence (you know — facts) get in the way of your story. And hey, even if she made it all up, I’m sure that you and Kathy can pump out another column about how it COULD have happened because, you know, all white athletes are scum. Right?
By dukie
May 26, 2006 10:20 PM | Link to this
They ARE innocent!!! How hard is it to see this??? It’s so obvious!
By MCF
May 26, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this
Why would a woman who has never met any of the individuals involved in this situation, and whose personal experiences have obviously (and understandably) given her a strong bias on the subject of rape by athletes, be “closer to an expert on this case” than young women who actually know the members of the Duke men’s lacrosse team, and who have had every detail of this case shoved in their faces every day for two months, as have all Duke students? If the Duke women who do know these young men shouldn’t have any opinion about what happened unless they were in the room [if someone accused one of your best friends of rape, without any clear supporting evidence, would you believe him if he said he didn’t do it?], why is it okay for Kathy Redmond to? And why is it okay for her to conclude that the members of the Duke women’s lacrosse team, whom she has never met, are—as a group—“stupid, spoiled little girls”? Before accusing others of rushing to judgment, try not to do so yourself.
By SVN
May 26, 2006 10:42 PM | Link to this
Jeff-
What have you been smoking recently? The Billy Payne/Augusta National column? The Hawks should get Iverson? Now this? Puhleeze. Maybe its time for a reassignment to the Peach Buzz beat so you can chronicle Jane Fonda and Elton John sightings …
By James
May 26, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this
You sure are reaching Sgt. Scultz. I agree, how is she an expert? Im not an expert on being a moron just because I read your column. Im sure that your wet dream would have been for this to be Georgia’s football team. THATS where the anger is coming from. Shouldn’t you and Cynthia Tucker form some sort of Editorial tag team? One day I hope you write a Sorts column thats 100% about SPORTS one day.
By john
May 26, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this
What an ignorant column.
These “stupid, spoiled little girls” (sounds like Ms Redmond is the insensitive one. A little condenscending don’t you think?) actually know the guys accused. They’ve been hearing every sordid detail in the local press since the charges were made. They’ve been inundated with hate speech from activists from all across the nation including some of their own professors. Sensitivity went out the window in this case a long, long time ago.
They are supporting their classmates. One of the girls has a brother on the team. You wouldn’t expect her to believe his story?
For the record, the only way those guys will be convicted of anything is if the DA has a surprise witness who can either testify to having seen the acts, or the guilty parties admitting to it. There is simply too much evidence that it couldn’t have happened the way it has been described. So when the case is either thrown out or court or they are found non guilty, will you and Ms Redmond have been guilty of infringing on those players’ civil rights by publicly suggesting their guilt?
Stick to sports, you’re often off base there as well but it’s harmless.
By uga4ever
May 26, 2006 11:10 PM | Link to this
Wow Jeff! Billy Payne allowing women, Hawks should take Iverson, and this. That hole is getting deeper and deeper for you to pull your head out of. You must not be getting laid at all to keep reaching out to all of these women. I will give you a few #’s and they will take care of you. Please Get Back To Reality! I can see your next column now- Nascar Needs Women!!!!
By Jason
May 26, 2006 11:35 PM | Link to this
Why are these women being criticized? They know the accused and are showing their support. Why are you not mentioning the “New Black Panther Party” and their harrassment of the accused. These racist morons don’t know the victims personally, all they see is the color of their skin. If the women’s lacrosse team wants to show their support, that is their right.
By Jason
May 26, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this
Why are these women being criticized? They know the accused and are showing their support. Why are you not mentioning the “New Black Panther Party” and their harrassment of the accused. These racist morons don’t know the victims personally, all they see is the color of their skin. If the women’s lacrosse team wants to show their support, that is their right
By BirdDawg
May 26, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this
Guys, come on, you have to understand where Jeff is coming from.
He’s white. He’s a man. He’s a liberal. Therefore, he’s shouldering the white man’s burden.
He’s shouldering all of the backed-up guilt for every wrong ever committed by the white man in history, like every good little white man liberal. Therefore, he panders. He panders to the feminists, even the truly, really, really crazy ones in NOW and Burk’s organization. He panders to the poor and the downtrodden. He hates the rich (even though he covers the largest group of rich people on the planet; professional athletes), especially rich white men.
He probably thinks OJ was framed by a racist cop.
But here’s the real question: What did he think of the Kobe situation? Which side and which minority group does the white man liberal embrace in that situation?
But hey, it could be just as bad: He could be a radical conservative.
Ideologues… all of them sheep. Would it be a crime for people just to follow their consciences, instead of regurgitating the ideas that come from group-think?
Nah… that idea is the one which is truly radical.
By northwestDawg
May 26, 2006 11:54 PM | Link to this
BirdDawg, you nailed it and his next colimn probably will be a howling for women in NASCAR. He’s just trying to get people to respond so he can say people are reading his works. I read it because the lead caught my attention and I wanted to make sure that what I think is right. Thanks for the reinforcement Jeff. Those Duke women can have anything they want written on their wrist bands and they do it knowing that people like you are going to blast them. Now that’s showing integrity and courage. Know anything about that Jeff? NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
By Ken
May 27, 2006 12:11 AM | Link to this
A lack of sensitivity? What a joke. This lying hooker makes up a story about being raped and the Duke Women’s Lacrosse team are insensitive? Give me a break.
By bailiff bob
May 27, 2006 12:20 AM | Link to this
remember twana brawley gut reaction says these “allegations” will be followed by a multi million dollar lawsuit by the “dancer” who would do ANYThing to take care of her children Like maybe this crazy tale and the ensuing lawsuit
By Jason
May 27, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this
Why are these women being criticized? They know the accused and are showing their support. Why are you not mentioning the “New Black Panther Party” and their harrassment of the accused. These racist morons don’t know the victims personally, all they see is the color of their skin. If the women’s lacrosse team wants to show their support, that is their right
By Mr. Mackey
May 27, 2006 01:25 AM | Link to this
Barry Bonds and the Duke lacrosse team. 2 sports stories I could do without, mmmkay?
By Innocent_until_proven_guilty
May 27, 2006 01:41 AM | Link to this
They weren’t there. But they know the guys who were, and they choose to believe them.
Never sacrifice integrity for loyalty; but even if they ARE being insensitive, they’re sacrificing sensitivity for loyalty on the side of their convictions. Good for them.
No punishment is too severe for the guys who committed this crime, if indeed one has been committed. But the innocent players are victims too. I commend the women’s team for being sensitive to their friends’ collective plight.
By Thom
May 27, 2006 06:14 AM | Link to this
Why do you take exception to the word ‘innocent’ being placed on their armbands? Have the Duke players been convicted of anything? According to our justice system, they are innocent until proven guilty and I don’t see that happening anytime soon, if at all. I think you should take exception to those that are shouting at the top of their voices ‘Convict them’. The proper forum is the courtroom… give them a fair trial, present evidence and then let the jury decide. But today they are innocent and I see nothing wrong with teammates supporting them. There are enough condeming them already.
By steve
May 27, 2006 06:54 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but I must have missed all of your articles condemning the Nation of Islam and all the black leaders/organizations who have already found these three (or was it 20) young men guilty. Obviously, you were quite an inspiration for your “Uncle Charlie” when he started his “Peanuts” cartoon. You would make him proud. Stick to sports, at which you are equally inept…
By steve
May 27, 2006 06:55 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but I must have missed all of your articles condemning the Nation of Islam and all the black leaders/organizations who have already found these three (or was it 20) young men guilty. Obviously, you were quite an inspiration for your “Uncle Charlie” when he started his “Peanuts” cartoon. You would make him proud. Stick to sports, at which you are equally inept…
By Doug
May 27, 2006 07:46 AM | Link to this
And the AJC wonders why they continue to lose circulation even though their market is growing like crazy. Who in the world would pay to read a paper with writers like Schultz, Bradley, Tucker and the midget who masquerades as a political cartoonist.
By Dan
May 27, 2006 07:46 AM | Link to this
The standard media hypocrisy is raging here. We always hear how we shouldn’t judge until we know the facts, though we all do, it is only systematically in a real court that innocent until proven guilty is the rule. But the laughable thing in this case is, after proclaiming moral superiority by saying the are not judging they go on to say that at the very least the young men were guilty drinking and hiring strippers, while in the same breath saying the young ahem lady should not be judged for being a stripper. How does that work?? The fact is undeniable that even if 1,2 or 3 of these guys did it, which more and more looks highly unlikely, the rest of the team has been railroaded by a publicity seeking DA and the media pandering to the race-baiting professionals. If this is found to be a hoax the punishment for the huxters (DA included) should be just as severe as the penalty would have been for a rapist
By Dan
May 27, 2006 07:52 AM | Link to this
So the womens team can’t write innocent on their jerseys but the media can write guilty all over theirs?? Oh yeah I forgot it is your job to provide the party line err I mean the truth.
By Dunwoody_joe
May 27, 2006 08:10 AM | Link to this
**Innocent, until proven guilty” should be written on their wristbands.
But what else can we expect from the national media, Kathy Redmond, AJC and Jeff Shultz? Fair and balanced—not!
The facts are slowly coming out and we’ll see who is guilty and innocent. The trial, if there is one, will be in a court not on the pages of the AJC orchestrated by the Redmonds of the world.
Shultz, your attention-grabbing columns often “stretch the bounds of free speech past the stupidity dividing line,” So says the court of popular opinion. Proof? 1) AJC circulation is dropping in the face of an increasing population; 2) AJC’s failed attempt to make us pay to view your columns on-line.
Those are the facts: Guilty
By Dave
May 27, 2006 08:15 AM | Link to this
Pathetic column. This is white vs black, just like the OJ case. No charges would have been filed if this was a ‘white on white’ or ‘black on black’ situation. The truth isn’t important to the column writer, just the further sensationalism of a dead case.
By Mike
May 27, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this
Schultz, who you gonna believe? A sleezy stripper with a record who is still doing the things that got her where she is in life or you friend, teammate, classmate, and peer who has told you they did not do these things. This tells me more about you JS than I need to know.
By Mike
May 27, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this
Redmond makes some interesting comments about Duke and the NCAA.
By The Great One
May 27, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this
I didn’t think it was possible, but Sgt. Schultz (he knows NO-THING!) has sunk to a new low.
Please tell me: Why is it O.K. for people - including blatantly racist organizations such as the “New” Black Panthers - to defend the so-called “victim” and proclaim the lacrosse players as being guilty, but it’s not O.K. for someone to disagree and say that they believe the athletes are being railroaded?
The liberal media has portrayed the lacrosse team as a bunch of out-of-control party animals. However, according to nationally syndicated columnist Kathleen Parker, the team has a 100 percent graduation rate, more than 60 percent of the players have GPA’s of 3.0 or better, and the team raised more money for Katrina relief efforts than any group on the Duke campus.
The bigger questions: Who gives a hoot about lacrosse? Why is this around-the-clock national news? Why hasn’t the media ever jumped on the numerous rapes committed or alledgely committed by college football and basketball players?
I’ll tell you why: This is the perfect opportunity for guilt-ridden whites and racist blacks to remind everybody how “evil” white guys are. If the races were reversed, and three black lacrosse players were accused of raping a white hooker … oops, I meant “stripper” … this story would be relegated to page 24Z.
In the meantime, Schultz, go ahead and make that appointment for the sex change operation you’ve been considering. You are a disgrace to your gender.
By Don
May 27, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this
I think Schultz, having demonstrated that he’s not funny and has no insight into sports, is trying to establish his credentials to work for Cynthia Tucker as a member of the AJC editorial staff.
By Thrashers101
May 27, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
Pathetic Jeff — truly pathetic. Where’s the physical evidence and credible witnesses that point to the guilt of these young men? Why is it ok for you to assume they are guilty yet it’s not ok for the Duke women to assume they are innocent? This column of yours reeks of politically-correct arrogance.
By Thrashers101
May 27, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
Pathetic Jeff — truly pathetic. Where’s the physical evidence and credible witnesses that point to the guilt of these young men? Why is it ok for you to assume they are guilty yet it’s not ok for the Duke women to assume they are innocent? This column of yours reeks of politically-correct arrogance.
By Jimmy
May 27, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this
Just look at the facts, Redmon “claimed” she was raped, yet the case never even went to trial. A “settlement” was later reached where no figures were disclosed publicly. Just like this stripper, Redmon was in it for the $$$!! It’s obvious thar Redmon has an agenda, I wouldnt trust her credibility as an “expert” on this case any further than I could throw her!
By Bo
May 27, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
Not Guilty Mr Schultz!!!!!
By TheMajor
May 27, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this
Kathy Redmond — what a peach, got her $50,000 and signed a settlement agreement that she can’t discuss getting raped by the same guy - twice in a 2-day period, but she can shoot her mouth off about cases that she knows nothing about. Oh yeah, she never filed criminal charges — too bad Nifong wasn’t running for DA of Lincoln at the time.
“Redmond said she had been raped twice in 1991 by Husker football player Christian Peter in a dormitory. She also said recruit Ken Bello touched her inappropriately, but she waited two years to file a complaint, out of fear.
No charges were filed against either man.
Peter is quoted in 1995 as saying: “The whole truth will never be known.” The university agreed to pay her $50,000 in 1997 after Redmond sued, claiming inadequate security and intentional negligence, according to reports. As part of the settlement, said Redmond, 30, in the interview, she can’t talk about the case.
By raymond
May 27, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this
After listening to the evidence in the case so far, and the MAJOR problems the prosecutioin will have, I don’t blame the girls team from thinking the way they do. This is a case of a DA directing the grand jury into an indictment ( yes they do it all the time) so he is not the one who angers the black community and the Readmon’s of the world when the defendants are found innocent.
By raymond
May 27, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
After listening to the evidence in the case so far, and the MAJOR problems the prosecutioin will have, I don’t blame the girls team from thinking the way they do. This is a case of a DA directing the grand jury into an indictment ( yes they do it all the time) so he is not the one who angers the black community and the Readmon’s of the world when the defendants are found innocent.
By Wha?
May 27, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this
All of you apologists seem to be missing the point. What was the all-white men’s lacrosse team doing hiring two black strippers in the first place? There is no refuting that the whole team comes from rich white families. Did they just want to see what it’s like to “cross the tracks?” Did the fact that they elected to hire black strippers somehow make it less, or more sleazy? And how can the all-white women’s lacrosse team begin to condone this, regardless of whether the boys are guilty or innocent? I’m not saying the boys (and I do mean BOYS, because they’re all obviously immature) are guilty, but just the fact that they engaged these women to begin with should repulse the women’s team. “Boys will be boys” just doesn’t cut it. Their show of support is just patently stupid and grossly misguided. Shame on all of them - the boys and the girls!
By pitbull
May 27, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
Jeff, you are a sports writer which is a job (kinda) not to be taken so seriously. Please resist the urge to write about things in the real world and just provide us wth the entertaining fluff for which you have become famous. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of their peers, even if they did it. Just ask OJ. Write about college football like Mark and let’s move on and all be friends.
By Barry
May 27, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this
I just want to echo the Nancy Grace-Redmond analogy. How can someone completly detacted from the case, who knows neither the allegred victims or perpetrators take such a strong opinion. Because she alleges rape from ten years ago she can watch TV and read a newspaper and then determine the truth about a case. These men ARE INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY. White on black or male on female crimes are no different than any other crime. All accusers should be seen as possibly making false allegations regardless of any circumstance. People like Nancy Grace and Kathy Redmond should not be given airtime or press space to vent their biases just because they MAY have been victims themselves. There are good reasons that judges and juries decide guilt or innocence and the punishments. We can’t lose sight of those reasons out of any sense of empathy for the victims.
By Cosmo
May 27, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this
Wha? you said: All of you apologists seem to be missing the point. What was the all-white men’s lacrosse team doing hiring two black strippers in the first place? There is no refuting that the whole team comes from rich white families. Did they just want to see what it’s like to “cross the tracks?” Did the fact that they elected to hire black strippers somehow make it less, or more sleazy?
According to the record they did not specify race when they hired the strippers. Get your head out of your a— and get the facts straight.
By TheMajor
May 27, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this
By Wha? — you couldn’t be more wrong. The facts are that the kid ordering the strippers specifically asked for white or Hispanic dancers. This was confirmed by Dancer #2 when she went public and she said that the boys may have thought that she was Hispanic.
So … I guess now By Wha? will just say that the rich white boys were bigots because they didn’t think that black strippers were good enough for them. Right?
Underage drinking? Stupid. And a misdemeanor.
Hiring strippers? Stupid. Not a crime.
By Wha? making blanket statements with disregard for the truth? Stupid and irresponsible.
By big dog
May 27, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this
This is a question for the courts. Not for the sports columns. Let’s get past the race card also. CAN THE BRAVES CATCH THE METS?
By rob mason
May 27, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this
From what I’ve read and heard ,the players are completely innocent.Why, wouldn’t the girls team in light of that PROBABLE fact back there men counterparts. This iritates WHO? The politically correct LEFT? Black people? These woman, sense and see a railroad of justice having occured, and just because its an allegation of rape and a females suggesting it doesn’t mean THEY fall in line like a bunch of ROBOTS. No, they see injustice. Good job ladies, I may start looking for your games.
By moonbeam
May 27, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this
Does it really matter what the girls think? I’ve got a better chance of growing ice in hell than those three are of getting convicted.
By Another Dukie
May 27, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this
Jeff - What the #$%^ is wrong with you? Your columns lately have shown a callous disregard for common sense.
Why not write about how Jesse Jackson offered to pay the alleged victim’s tuition? That’s where the controversy is.
Lack of sensitivity? Three guys are accused of a very serious crime without much supporting evidence, and you are worried about sensitivity. If I found myself or someone close to me similarly accused, you can bet your last dollar I’d come out swinging without any regard for sensitivity.
By ben
May 27, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this
I think what’s really ludacris is when journalists say there is no liberal bias in their profession. Schultz writes a column insinuating that these guys are guilty under the guise of the “unfairness of the Duke women’s lacrosse team”. Who has the bigger podium here, so who really unfairly influenced the public?
By 74 dog
May 27, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this
who the hell cares what lacrosse players wear
By Reggie
May 27, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this
Jeffy, you need to change your name to something that better reflects the v**** you seem to have grown in the last year or so.
By Reggie
May 27, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this
Jeffy, you need to change your name to something that better reflects the v**** you seem to have grown in the last year or so. You’ve become a real wuss.
By Mark
May 27, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this
I have to respectfully disagree with Jeff on this topic. What is wrong for showing support for your friends who you believe in? The girls obviously have a relationship with these boys and feel that their names are wrongfully being dragged into this mess. Jeff, if you had a brother who you absolutely know is innocent, yet an overassertive DA is pressing on and now your brother’s reputation is ruined in the community; wouldn’t you show some support to assert his innocence? I don’t think you would wait for the court system to work itself out to express your opinions. At least I know I would publicly support my brother, and I would do the same for my close friends if I felt strongly about their innocence. The key is that they believe they are innocent. They are not saying we support them whether they raped the woman or not, they are saying they think they are innocent. Now I wouldn’t support someone who I suspected of wrongdoing, but I would if I truly believed in their innocence. That seems to be the case here, so let them have their say in the matter. The girl has her supporters and no one slams them for possibly slandering these boys’ names. Why should the boys’ supporters not be heard?
By V. Baker
May 27, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this
Jeff—you are a liberal a_ _ ! Now I know why I don’t subscribe to the AJC.
The Duke LaCrosse Women I respect wholeheartedly—they were sick and tired of the ridiculous “guilty until proven innocent”, elitist, privileged white institutional tags that you and all the liberal media have unfairly placed upon the Duke Players and institution as a whole. DA Nifong has used this case completely for one reason only—to support his political campaign and get free publicity. What a shame most Americans can’t see through this and what a shame the liberal media won’t give this the coverage it deserves. Nada!!!
Let’s face the facts Jeffie boy—camraderie is a way of life—in athletics and other teams and organizations. I was a college athlete as well as a military officer. Organizations that work hard together, play hard together, and are very successful. The Duke LaCrosse Team is no different. The facts speak for themselves. I am not condoning abuse but the bottom line is that raucous parties occur at every major university, in most every fraternity, and where alchohol is involved, fights and other wild party atmosphere type activities are going to happen. This molehile situation should have been reviewed accordingly and handled accordingly—and not made into a racial, institutional, and social mountain of unfair retribution. Penalize the boys for what they did wrong and move on. And penalize the skanky whore as well who has made likely false claims because she was too drunk and stupid to remember anything.
It is a shame that the liberal media were able to make this into 100 x more than what it was and in effect, have a school cancel the season, fire a coach, and drag 47 players through emotional unnecessary mud.
And who cares about Karen Redmond. Big Deal. Fight your case and move on. Quit living in the past. It is all part of life and you need to learn how to deal with it.
By ATL Al
May 27, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
Jeff,
Get a life. Those girls are entitled to their opinions and support of their friends just as you are entitled to write narrow-minded, bigoted, race-baiting columns such as the one above.
By A Real Fan
May 27, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
Some of you good ole boys are so hypocritical. You all know if this was a white female stripper or not alledging black college athletes raped her you would have them tried, convicted, castrated and hung. You know it. No man should force himself on a woman whether she is a stripper or not and because the alleged victim is African American and a stripper she is automatically lying according to some of you cross burners. These female lacrosse players acted like most of you bigots that post on here. When Randy Moss, Terrell Owens or any other black athlete complains about a contrac or playing time or not getting the ball you KKK’ers call them spoiled, over-indulged and ungrateful but when a DA and a Victim say that three Dukies committed rape you all want to act as though it never happened. These are good kids you say. PLEASE!! White men break the law too and so do white women. They rape and murder just like Blacks, Hispanics and every other race. I bet you defenders of the lacrosse players aren’t so open-minded about the guy accused of killing Natalie Holloway. The three guys that have been arrested, questioned and released all say they are innocent. Do you believe they are innocent or does the fact that Natalie hasn’t been found make you think they are guilty?
By Jeff in Chicago
May 27, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
Jeff Schultz has effectively become the AJC’s Sports page equivalent of Cynthia Tucker. The AJC has all of the bed-wetting liberal sensibilities of the New York Times, but witout any of talent or clever writing of the NYT staff, which makes the AJC especially insufferable. But not for the desire to follow UGA football, Braves baseball, etc., the AJC readership would basically be reduced to the friends and family of the staff writers. I suspect when/if the Duke kids are found innocent, you will be writing a column where you are hand-wringing over the fact that these young men have had thier names and faces plastered all over the media, while the accuser is able to skate by in complete anonymity???? Somehow, I suspect we will never see that column.
By A Real Fan
May 27, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
Its funny too how white Duke lacrosse players are “kids” but the complaintant is scum of the earth. One poster said “they used poor judgment”. These criminals have had the cops called to that house on several occasions. Even their “white” neighbors complained about them. The are grown men accused of a serious crime. These aren’t babies. One of them was even convicted of beating up a gay guy. I guess thats ok too because he was a “kid using poor judgement” and the guy was gay.
By D.J. Fulton
May 27, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
Consider that the bright and athletic young women of Duke are probably making a constitutional statement concerning the presumption of innocence. They have not yet become embittered and alienated enough from the world to feel comfortable with you and the left wing nut jobs (Jim Wooten excluded) who inhabit Section A. Offer us sports analysis - you really make a hash of it every time you wander off into the social stuff.
By Mark
May 27, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this
With all due respect, Mr. Shultz, I think that it is you, sir, along with all the other ill-informed group-think “experts,” and not the Duke women’s lacrosse team that is having a “knee-jerk reaction” based on limited knowledge. The most obvious case-in-point would be the misleading straw-man you inexplicably created out the outset of your piece by suggesting they are exclaiming “Innocent!” (with an exclamation point) which, as you indicate later in the piece, you clearly know is not the case. The arm bands were to say, as had t-shirts in a previous campaign of support for the players by a large and diverse group of Duke women back when school was still in session, “Innocent” (no exclamation point,) which is what Seligmann, Finnerty and Evans (like all other Americans) are until proven guilty in this country. Now, if you have been following the case at all over the past two and a half months you would have probably also observed that the chances of them being proven guilty (or being guilty) of any of these charges are looking slimmer and slimmer by the day, but, in any event, the point of the show of support by the Duke women’s team was to simply to remind others to afford the accused the same rights and respect as the Founding Fathers of our nation intended: the presumption of innocence.
By interviewing only Ms. Redmond, you have also failed to meet even the most basic level of journalistic standards (even in an opinion piece.) If Ms. Redmond was, in fact, raped as she alleges than she has been the victim of a horrible crime and I’m sure she feels anger and bitterness towards her attacker on a level I could never comprehend and I am extremely sorry for her as a man and a person. Even if that is the case, however, her comments make it apparent that she is unable to disassociate her personal experience and anger from wholly unrelated cases. She certainly has no license to call (and you should be ashamed for implicitly endorsing her calling) a group of over 40 young women whom she doesn’t know “stupid, spoiled little girls.” She is wrong and it’s unfortunate that she is blinded by her own pain, but what’s your excuse? Do you know any of these girls? Anything about them other than the fact that they play lacrosse at Duke? Her basic assertion (signed off on by you) is that all female lacrosse players are exactly the same (apparently horrible) person. That is shameful, hateful thinking. Not to mention the fact that she (once again unchallenged by you) is assuming that a rape occurred here. Given the weakness of the “evidence” in this case thus far, does she assume guilt because they are athletes or are all men automatically guilty? This kind of rush to judgment in cases that may be based on fabrications hurts real victims in the long run.
You are right at the outset of the article when you say that we should suspend final judgment (before you go on to jump on Ms. Redmond’s “guilty until proven innocent in rape cases” bandwagon) and I also completely agree that true rape is a crime that in many ways is worse even than murder (and should be treated as such,) but that is why the utmost care must be taken in respecting the rights of both the accuser AND the accused. And in America, the burden is on the state to prove guilt. This is particularly important because of the legal consequences attached to the allegation of serious offenses such as this. To not afford the same in the court of public opinion with regard to the attendant stigma is, by definition, the very epitome of the term “un-American.” If you don’t like that, there are many other countries where the opposite is true. This notion has been lost on many unfortunately, especially in the media, however, and that is why the stand being taken by the Duke women is so necessary and important. If the players are proven guilty (and, seriously, check the “evidence” thus far on that one) they deserve horrible punishment for their crime, but the same is true of the accuser if it becomes clear that she has fabricated this story and sullied the reputations of so many with lies (which it seems increasingly clear is the case.) Maybe some day when you and Ms. Redmond read THAT then YOU will rethink this.
By OldDawg55
May 27, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this
I would hardly use Ms Redmond as a figure to quote…she started and organization to highlight violent athletes, yet she didn’t have the courage of conviction to see her case through…she settled for a civil suit and compensation…emphasis on the compensation!…not much principle there. I think the support of the women’s team for their male counterparts is commendable..”innocent”..until proven guilty! Nothing wrong with that…and I think time will validate their stand!!
By Sir Stealth
May 27, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
I’m white, I’m liberal, and I probably consider this to be the worst column I’ve ever read in the AJC. Jeff, would you have the courage to stand up for your friends and classmates when this kind of condemnation was inevitable? These girls could have chosen to forget the men who they consider friends and abandon them to bask in their own success. Instead, they thought about the fact that their male counterparts did not have the opportunity to achieve that success. This case should not be looked at as a liberal/conservative issue. Anyone paying attention can see that there should be no chance of and that this case has been GROSSLY mishandled by the prosecution. Obviously, the women’s lacrosse team is certain that this “innocent” claim is true. If you felt this way, would you stand up and say something, or would you leave your friends to have their lives robbed by those who want these people guilty no matter what, simply because they are white and “privledged.” Everyone who has the opportunity to attend Duke, no matter what their background is (and the school’s is obviously much more diverse than the media would have you believe) benefits from the privledge and doesn’t need to be ashamed of the quality of the institution or called racist or a rapist. The girls are incredibly brave and should be commended for their support, which was anything but the way that would have been easiest for them.
This article was basically just a series of quotes by a woman who knows much less about the players and the case than the girls involved (where does she get the knowledge to call them spoiled?) and does not weigh any other opinions. The author might as well have been listed as Kathy Redmond.
By Handsome John
May 27, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Go girls. I’ve been tired of trying not to hurt feeling. Be a man or woman and tell it like it is.
By TheMajor
May 27, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this
To “A Real Fan” — you might want to think about moving up a panty size or two.
Let’s see — a lacrosse program with 40-45 kids, 18-22 year old, over 5 1/2 years totals 52 misdemeanor charges — p** in public, open beer in a car, loud partying, and yes, underage drinking. And yes, one player has been charged, but not convicted, for assault.
So I guess that means that the Duke girls and everyone else should ignore the FACTS of this case that are pretty clearly leading to the conclusion that the alleged victim is a liar. Let’s just throw the 3 guys in prison right now. Why waste taxpayers’ money on a trial, right?
And as far as your race-baiting, why don’t you check what’s going on in Richmond where 4 blacks, including a couple football players, are charged with gang-raping a white student without a peep in the national media:
Syndicated columnist Leonard Pitts suggested the Duke case would’ve blown up even worse if the racial tables were turned.
“Imagine if the woman were white and reported being raped by three black members of the basketball team. You’d have to call out the National Guard.”
Really?
“That hyperbole isn’t born out by the facts,” said Richmond-area attorney Jeff Everhart. He’s representing one of the four Virginia Union University students indicted last week for allegedly raping a University of Richmond coed on Jan. 21.
All four of the accused are black, two who had ties to the football team. One was a star quarterback as a freshman. All four were considered good kids, attending a historic black university.
The victim is white, an out-of-state student attending the posh University of Richmond, which has Duke-size tuition.
She reportedly left a party at a UR campus apartment with the four. Police say she was assaulted in some woods in western Henrico. Police found her and two of the suspects after neighbors heard a woman’s screams.
Alcohol is a factor, as it is in the Duke case. Similarly, DNA tests will play a starring role. But not a peep about the VUU case in the national media.
By Daniel
May 27, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
You are really becoming extremely liberal and just plain wierd!! Did Nifong pay you to write this? Only in Durham could you have an ironclad abili - with photos - and still be considered guilty. I think the girls should have been able to wear whatever armbands they wanted in protest! Maybe we should wear some to protest ultra-liberals, such as you!
By rushncap
May 27, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this
The girls on the lax team are friends with the guys. They know them. They believe that their friends have been unjustly accused of a horrible crime. I see nothing wrong with someone saying to the world “these are my friends, and I believe them”. I’m not sure what the university can do to inhibit that message. No one is asking these girls to serve on the jury here. It seems to me that saying “they’re guilty” is acceptable, but saying “they’re innocent” is somehow “insensitive to the victim”.
By jall
May 27, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this
According to all the evidence that has been coming out so far, these boys are being victimized by a prosecutor running for election…There simply is no physical evidence except for the personal testimony of a under the influence hooker/stripper who has apparently has cried wolf before…and these boys by being suspended from school are being presumed guilty before conviction….So if their fellow lacrosse players want to support them frankly it is none of your damn business and shove your political correctness up your a*…
By A Real Fan
May 27, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this
Blah, blah, blah to major. Eat a fat one and if you hurry you can give your wife back her panties before you go to this evenings cross burning! Answer the Natalie Holloway question? Do you think the guys in Aruba are guilty? When you and the rest of your Klan buddies stand around watching NASCAR and drinking Buds don’t you talk about what you would do to the Aruban 3 if you could get your hands on them. You know you use a different set of standards when white “kids” are accused of using “poor judgement”. Just look at your bigoted reasoning, 52 misdemeanors in 5 1/2 years. I guess its ok if that house of lawbreakers ran rampant and terrorized the neighborhood as long as they weren’t committing felonies. Well guess what private, I mean major, now they have been charged with committing a felony. I guess you inhaled to much gasoline at the last cross-burning to tell the truth. Those boys were out of control like your kind accuse so many professional athletes of being. You and your Klan brothers can say what you want but your “slip” is showing and everyone knows how hypocritcal you are. Trying to hide behind your “innocent until proven guilty” line! ha ha ha
By rushncap
May 27, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this
Ummm, real fan, chill out, buddy.
By Clawhammer
May 27, 2006 07:13 PM | Link to this
Hey Real Fan:
You seem like the typical p** off neomarxist zoon dweeb liberal jackass that thinks all non-libs are sheet dwellers.
How come candyassed pinko wet panty-wearing clowns like you don’t b!tch about Senator Robert KKK Byrd, (D) of West Virginia?
You filthy maggots on the left are all for innocent until proven guilty until a different class, race, or political affiliation gets in the crosshairs.
Keep up the good work, gutter RAT liberal: your blatant ignorance only outshines your hypocrisy.
JACKASS.
By Larry Jones
May 27, 2006 08:02 PM | Link to this
Jeff, you have stooped to a new low. Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?
If these young ladies wanted to VOLUNTARILY support their friends, that’s their right.
It really doesn’t matter what you think, and it certainly doesn’t matter what some babble mouth from the National Coalition against Violent Athletes thinks, either.