AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2006 > May > 04 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBonds stuck as villain
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Mark Bradley
Remember how your Little League coach used to yell, “Right man, right spot” to every batter, no matter how scrawny or overmatched? Imagine how it must feel to be Barry Bonds, the greatest baseball player of the last 70 years, and to have always, always been the wrong man in the right spot.
He was one out from the 1992 World Series and, with a chance to send Game 7 to extra innings, couldn’t throw out the plowhorse Sid Bream. He was six outs from the 2002 world championship but made a key error in the Giants’ Game 6 unraveling against Anaheim. And now he’s about to overhaul the beloved Bambino and major league baseball can’t bring itself to speak his name.
Imagine how it must feel to have gotten so much right but seen it all go wrong. If the book “Game Of Shadows” is to be believed, Bonds began using steroids because he was jealous of the acclaim festooned on Mark McGwire for hitting 70 home runs in 1998. So Bonds, it is alleged, made himself bigger and better and shattered McGwire’s record in 2001 and garnered maybe one-tenth of the glory. Imagine how that felt.
In 1998 Sports Illustrated dressed McGwire and Sammy Sosa in togas and laurel wreaths as its co-Sportsmen of the Year. Wrote Gary Smith: “They went to such lengths to conduct the great home run race with dignity and sportsmanship.” Three years later, was Bonds the Sportsman of the Year? No. Two other baseball players were — Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling. Imagine that.
Barry Bonds could have been the Michael Jordan of his sport, a paragon of excellence and grace. Alas, he got it only half-right. He’s at worst the second-best player in the history of baseball — Ruth, who was also a pitcher, still holds the edge — but he nears the end of his career with the masses and MLB itself just wishing he’d wreck his knee and go away for good.
Bonds’ team played in Milwaukee on Wednesday and Thursday. Bud Selig lives and works in Milwaukee. With Bonds sitting on 712 homers, the commissioner didn’t deign to attend either game. Baseball has already said it will do nothing to commemorate the passing of Ruth — no fireworks for second place, MLB decreed — but surely if it were Ken Griffey Jr. hitting Nos. 714 and 715 the stance would be rather different.
The second-greatest player ever has become the poisonous tree. MLB doesn’t want to salute Bonds because it’s afraid it will have to sanction him depending on the findings of various investigations. This is the same MLB that fell all over itself to embrace McGwire and Sosa despite suspicions — remember Andro? — that not everything about that famous chase was aboveboard. But baseball didn’t want to find anything wrong with McGwire and Sosa, who were seen as nice guys.
Bonds, as we know, has never gone to any lengths to build political capital. The best description still belongs to my late colleague Jeff Denberg, who said, “He plays the game with a sneer.” How many people in any performer’s audience enjoy being sneered at?
Imagine how it must be, being Barry Bonds. Does he wish he’d been nicer to people back when? Is he thinking of retiring before he gets to Hank Aaron’s 755 and thereby sparing his sport and himself a megaton of aggravation? Going on the rampant assumption that he did use steroids, does he consider himself a cheat or just someone who seized a competitive advantage? (Like a pitcher who scuffs the ball, say.)
For those of us on the periphery, the easy course is to harrumph that cheaters never prosper and that Bonds is getting exactly what he deserves. But what about McGwire? Did he get what he deserved? What about Gaylord Perry? Does a spitballer belong in Cooperstown? Why is Bonds the subject of all our scorn?
Imagine how it must be to have done things that should have made him the idol of millions but have instead rendered him a villain. Yes, Barry Bonds brought much of it on himself, but as he approaches the hallowed number 714 surely somebody should utter a sympathetic word.
Somebody? Anybody?
Permalink | Comments (82) | Categories: Braves / MLB, Mark Bradley
Comments
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By tarmar
May 4, 2006 07:10 PM | Link to this
we all get what we deserve, mark. nicely written, as always.
By desertdawg
May 4, 2006 07:46 PM | Link to this
Babe the best ever? The Hammer is 1st in HR/RBI/Total bases/ and top 3 in hits and games played. Ted Williams was a .340 lifetime hitter / 2 triple crowns and 17 time all star, let alone the 550 or so dingers he hit. Bonds is in the same company and its a shame his greatness is overshadowed by the juice, but thats life. if not for that he would be the greatest ever—7 MVP’s is enough. The Babe was great but the bets ever? I dont think so.
By The Grinch
May 5, 2006 01:01 AM | Link to this
Thank God someone finally informed the unwashed masses that Babe Ruth was also a pitcher. Not JUST a pitcher, but a hell of a good one who spent six seasons pitching for the Red Sox and still holds a record or two, I believe. Stick Bonds, Williams (who, to be fair missed a chunk of his prime being a fighter pilot in WWII), Hank, Robinson, Killebrew (yes, that’s two black guys and two white ones, for all who are about to label me a racist), etc. on the mound for their first six seasons and see where they’d still rank. Make them live off bourbon, cigars, bacon grease and prostitutes (though the last one might still be familiar to most) and I expect their stats would be a good deal more pedestrian. A tip of my hat to all competitors, but there will never be another Bambino. Bonds couldn’t even throw out a runner from right field, much less start on the mound in a world series. Long live Ruth!
By BirdDawg
May 5, 2006 01:29 AM | Link to this
Mark Bradley, I put this to you…
If Ted Williams doesn’t lose 5 years… 5 YEARS! to WWII and Korea, then Ted Williams has 750 homers, and maybe even 800.
Teddy Ballgame is the greatest baseball player ever, as well as something more important… the greatest fighter pilot in the history of the Marine Corps and the military itself.
He was a great American, who didn’t pull a Joe DiMaggio. He actually fought in the wars he served in.
Would Bonds, Owens, Irvin, McGwire, or any of the other selfish jerk athletes give as much of themselves, or be willing to give their lives for their country? Ionly know of one in the last 50 years, and he actually did give his life.
I’m sick and tired of Bonds. I’m sick of stories such as yourself that attempts to swing sympathy his way. I feel no sympathy to that pitiful man who has brought every single bad thing on his own head.
By George Herman
May 5, 2006 02:15 AM | Link to this
What Williams WOULD HAVE done is irrelevant. In fact, what Williams said is that Ruth was the greatest hitter ever. That Ruth was also a GREAT pitcher factors into a plausible argument that he was the greatest player ever. Could Aaron pitch a lick? No. His lifetime average is barely above .300. And, it took him 3000 more at bats than Ruth to hit as many homeruns. As for Barroid, all of his bloated marks should be expunged.
By mike
May 5, 2006 02:24 AM | Link to this
Fact is that 50 years from now Bonds will be in the record books and no one will remember who all the Bond haters are. If you want to hate, hate on those who have sent 2000 plus soldiers to their deaths in Iraq based on lies.
By Colin
May 5, 2006 02:58 AM | Link to this
desertdawg and birddawg, I respectively disagree with you guys. Babe Ruth is the greatest baseball player ever, hands down!!! He may even be the greatest American athlete ever.
Before his arrival, there was no such a thing as a homerun hitter; the game was dominated by pitchers and singles hitters. The single season homerun record before Ruth routinely hit 40, 50, 60 homeruns per year was 19!!! He hit 60 homeruns in 1927, without the benefit of weak pitching, hitter-friendly ballparks, and, need I say, steroids.
He was a lifetime .342 hitter with power (still the highest slugging % in baseball history) and amazing eyes (drew more walk than anybody in baseball history). And as a pitcher, he even led the league in shutouts (9) and lowest era (1.75) in 1916! By the way, he is second in most homeruns and most RBI categories.
Ruth changed the whole dynamic of baseball. He made baseball the America’s pastime and propelled the Yankees to become the greatest professional sports organization in the world. Moreover, he gave hopes to millions of people living on the economic fringe. Many historians suggest that Babe Ruth and Charlie Chaplin were the only two things that made people happy during the Great Depression.
Ted and Hank were great baseball players, but that’s about it. Let me further enlighten you guys with this little illumination: I grew up in Korea during the 70s, and even though Babe had been dead for a long time, I knew Babe Ruth, my friends knew Babe Ruth, my neighbors knew Babe Ruth. I sure heck didn’t know Ted Williams!
If you guys are baseball aficionados like I am, please check out the link below. You will read about Babe’s prodigious talent, impact on baseball and impact on American sports, society, and social history. http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016451.html
By geechee
May 5, 2006 05:57 AM | Link to this
As they say in South when you lie down with the dogs, you wake up with the fleas.
He was/is one of the greatest ball players of all time. Why did he feel he had to do it? There are many more, just as guilty as him; some where uniforms and many others wear suits. BUT He made enemies of everyone, starting with the press, next it was the fans, then it was the world. Everyone was picking on poor Barry. Nobody knew what it was like to be poor Barry. Grow up Barry, break the records, and just go away.
By JW Gooch
May 5, 2006 06:22 AM | Link to this
The “Babe” was the best ever due to his all-around play including his pitching prowess. To this day, he still holds a couple of records in pitching in the American league. Remember, he hit most of his homeruns in shortened seasons in the “dead-ball” era. Bonds is good, Hank is great, but the Babe’s the best!
By BigPoppa
May 5, 2006 06:28 AM | Link to this
Barry’s records need to be expunged. If I was a major league manager I would intentionally walk him all season, he can’t run anymore, and he has become a liability to the Giants. I wish he would just go away for the good of the game.
By Larry
May 5, 2006 06:35 AM | Link to this
Top Ten most talented, statistically significant, and greatest impact on the game, all things considered:
As for Bonds, comparing altering one’s body chemically & physiologically at the expense of sacrificing vital organs and lifespan to that of a “spitball” or a little pine tar is like comparing Hillary Clinton to an honest, genuine lady who decides to wear false eyelashes. Bonds is a disgrace to not only baseball but to mankind itself.
By brewerfaninATL
May 5, 2006 06:38 AM | Link to this
All I have to say is “you reap what you sow!” And Barry is definately reaping what he has sowed…sniffle, sniffle.
By Roderick Herring
May 5, 2006 06:58 AM | Link to this
Sorry the Babe did not play against the best players - so he deserve an * by all his records.
Hummmm… how would he have done against the Negro League players? Don’t know, However I do beleive he would have been so great.
By Roderick Herring
May 5, 2006 06:58 AM | Link to this
Sorry the Babe did not play against the best players - so he deserve an * by all his records.
Hummmm… how would he have done against the Negro League players? Don’t know, However I do beleive he would not have been so great.
By Larry
May 5, 2006 07:17 AM | Link to this
Roderick,
Loosen up the corn rows, repeat 4th grade english, and either return your computer to its rightful owner or stop wasting your employer’s time and money.
By James
May 5, 2006 07:25 AM | Link to this
I think that Barry is the best and that Ruth is the Great white hope and You guys are made because Bonds is the better player and you guys know it. If Bonds were white would we be having this conversation. Mark was juicing and you guys said nothing.
By James
May 5, 2006 07:33 AM | Link to this
See that comment is what I am talking about. Whites can’t complete anymore and the black can and make all of the money and don’t care about how you guys feel. So take your white hood off and give some more money to the black players because they rule the leagues and you know it but can’t do anything about it.
By jimmy
May 5, 2006 07:50 AM | Link to this
Mike, this article was about Barry Bonds and baseball you moron. Keep your Hillary and Kerry “anti-war” slogans to yourself and the rest of your idiot supporters.
By brewerfaninATL
May 5, 2006 08:00 AM | Link to this
James,
How was your trip to Fantasy Land? I’ll tell you what is sad…even IF Bonds was clean and never took steroids and broke all the records he would STILL be p** off about something. That is internal, it’s all in his fat, bloated head and it always has been. Also James, SOSA and was a juicer too, so it ain’t just black and white…as much as you like to THINK it is. Hmm, maybe YOU need to look in the mirror, wouldn’t YOU say?!
By brewerfaninATL
May 5, 2006 08:02 AM | Link to this
I meant to say “…Sosa was a juicer too…”
By Anthony
May 5, 2006 08:15 AM | Link to this
In order to be considered the ‘greatest’ or ‘best’ in your field …one must be a competitor against the ‘best’. Babe Ruth will always be considered a great player …and based on his contributions to baseball, it’s well deserved. However, our society failed to allow others to challenge these created icons of sport during the early years …would this had changed the course of history …maybe or maybe not! Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb are no different then Barry Bonds …none truly deserve to be called the ‘greatest’.
By NOT A BONDS FAN
May 5, 2006 08:16 AM | Link to this
Balco Bonds and McGwire juiced and they were both wrong! White, black, whatever! But at least McGwire was nice to the fans, the media, etc. Bonds walks around as though he is God. I knew when I heard that he had separate locker facilities from the team that he was juicing. Had Bonds been a nice guy, maybe so many people wouldn’t hate him now. He’s full of himself!
By On topic, please
May 5, 2006 08:22 AM | Link to this
First, I am glad that Ted Williams was a great American and a great marine, but this is a talk about baseball and baseball only. Second, let’s leave out the conservative vs. liberal crap and the Hillary vs. anybody crap. This is supposed to be about baseball. Last, can we ever intelligently discuss a topic without African Americans crying “foul” and without other ethnicities hurling insults at African Americans. The “cornrows” comment was WAY OUT OF LINE. Personally, I have not ever (nor will I ever willingly) wear cornrows, but I consider it personally offensive and bigoted that someone would say something like that in a commentary about baseball. The climate of thie country has truly degenerated into a polarized, bigoted, conservative vs. liberal climate where the two sides don’t even know their differences, so they just hurl insults at each other. I would think that some of you people could be more intelligent than that.
That being said, Barry has to live with his own demons of personality and whether or not he juieced up. Juiced or not, it takes incredible coordination to hit a 95 mph fastball out of any ballpark. He may not be the greatest, but he is certainly the most prolific of our time. As for his personality, he was like that at Arizona State, so why should it be any different now?
Put an ansterisk by Barry’s name in the record books. It will go well with the asterisk by McGwire’s (because they both cheated).
By brewerfaninATL
May 5, 2006 08:30 AM | Link to this
Put an asterisk by SOSA, PALMEIRO, and CANSECO too (he’s in the top 25 HR’s) while we’re at it! Again, this isn’t just BLACK and WHITE, it’s Cuban and Dominican too!
By ecoleman
May 5, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this
I don’t think it matters whether Bonds is a nice guy or not. We don’t know what these sports figures do in the leisure, only what the media reports. If they (media) don’t like you, or they have a certain perception of you ie.(Kobe,Terrell Owens,etc)you become the scapegoat for what is bad. They never exposed McGwire or Romanowski who spit on people, or even punched a guys lights out! Was it because they were nice guys? Romo was a jerk! What about the hero’s of sports who cheated on their wives like MJ, Dr J and others?
I don’t think that a person should be characterized by everything he does, otherwise none of us could stand. Would you have taken steroids? Bet on BAseball? Maybe, maybe not.
By Rick
May 5, 2006 09:02 AM | Link to this
According to the book, Bonds began using steroids late in his career, after an already Hall of Fame type record. This was said to be about regaining a competitive advantage that the money grubbing baseball establishment had declined to maintain. Strangely, Bonds’ has become for many the poster child for an era that was seriously corrupt. In addition, while we are scrutinizing home run hitters, we need to take a closer look at the 98 mph pitchers, especially the ones who are over 40 years old.
By Rick
May 5, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this
According to the book, Bonds began using steroids late in his career, after an already Hall of Fame type record. This was said to be about regaining a competitive advantage that the money grubbing baseball establishment had declined to maintain. Strangely, Bonds’ has become for many the poster child for an era that was seriously corrupt. In addition, while we are scrutinizing home run hitters, we need to take a closer look at the 98 mph pitchers, especially the ones who are over 40 years old.
By Jason
May 5, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this
Bonds will be remembered as the greatest player of his generation because Griffey got hurt too much. That and the juice. Barry Bonds on steroids was the greatest hitter ever in MLB history, period.
Without the juice, Hammer’n Hank Aaron is the greatest pitcher. Aaron went up against the greatest collection of pitchers ever during a pitcher’s era.
By braves fan through and through
May 5, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this
mark- very good article. bonds may be a jerk, but as you put it, he’s one of the best to ever play the game. i was there in ‘92 when he couldn’t throw out sid and there’s one instance where i don’t feel sorry for him:) however, you’re right, this guy has never gotten the respect that he is due. i guess you reap what you sow…
By Steve in Virginia
May 5, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this
…the greatest fighter pilot in the history of the Marine Corps
Hey, I’m a big Ted Williams fan, but what about Pappy Boyington?
By bushwacker
May 5, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this
Get a grip Bradley, I stopped reading after the first sentence, greatest player of the last 70 years , you’ve lost your mind. THE ONLY thing Bonds was better at than Aaron was stealing bases and that’s only because Aaron very rarely stopped at first base.
Aaron has more HR’s, RBI’s, Runs scored and a much highr batting avg.
You sir, owe Hank Aaron an apology!!
By Quinn Floyd
May 5, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
Yeah Yeah Yeah, Bonds this, Bonds that. If you remember correctly Mac and Sosa also did there thing BEFORE the steroid tift and once it came about, do you here anything about Mac’s record. Sosa is off the map so that he doesn’t have to answer the questions. How can someone hit that many homeruns one year, then fall off the radar so fast. Please people, the older generation was better at THE GAME than 95% of the players now. Juiced is not normal. Bonds will always have that star beside his name along with Mac, Canseco and all the rest of the cheaters. As I heard Rick Riley from SI stated last night on a late night show, “Sure, put them in the history books with their records, but beside each of there names put a little syringe by it.” I couldn’t have said it any better. Me personally will never recognize this set of players as being THE GREAT ONES. They will always hold the legacy of being the Juice Boys.
By bushwacker
May 5, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
Oh yea, let’s not forget,Aaron played against at least a dozen or so HALL OF FAME pitchers and many more who would be the #1 starters on any team.
Bonds played against ptichers in a watered down era who don’t even belong in the MAJOR LEAGUES some are even good enough to pitch in AAA.
By bushwacker
May 5, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this
Oh yea, let’s not forget,Aaron played against at least a dozen or so HALL OF FAME pitchers and many more who would be the #1 starters on any team.
Bonds played against ptichers in a watered down era who don’t even belong in the MAJOR LEAGUES some are NOT even good enough to pitch in AAA.
By bushwacker
May 5, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this
Oh yea, good point not many people know Hank Aaron also is #3 in all time hits behind Pete Rose and Ty Cobb and #1 in RBI’s..as well as HR’s.
And how about 24 ALL STAR GAMES !!!!
And how long have you been in Atlanta?
By GEORGE
May 5, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this
Hey everybody I AM SICK OF BARRY BONDS AND TIGER WOODS YOU WOULD THINK THESE TWO ARE THE ONLY PLAYER IN BASEBALL AND GOLF
By Think
May 5, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this
If Barry is all about the juice, then why/how is he (at 41) STILL hitting home runs on a bum knee, while being constantly walked AND without even getting good pitches to hit? Why hasn’t he lost weight or have a significant decrease in mass? Also, if he has taken all those things as accused in “The Book”, surely he would have failed a drug test at some point. Babe Ruth? Never played against black or hispanic players AND, there are pitches in the modern game that Ruth has never seen! Ty Cobb was a racist and a cheat who used to sharpen his cleats and Ruth was a alcoholic womanizer. These are the FACTS, so let’s leave personalities out of the discussion. My God, it’s not like Bonds killed someone, raped women or beat children. Get a grip, folks…This hatred thing is ridiculous and a bit over the top!! As for you closet racist, bigots, hypocrites, etc..ya’ll have other social issues you need to deal with!
By Think
May 5, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this
Larry, you’re not only a dumb a* but a jack a* as well! With simplistic minds such as yours, if figures your true (hooded) colors would come out at some point.
By David
May 5, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
Does anyone remember how Bob Gibson & Sandy Koufax changed the game. The pitchers’ mound was lowered because of the dominance of pitchers, especially those two. Are today’s pitchers worse or have the hitters been given a great advantage over past eras? This occured in 1969 or 1970.
By JoeBob
May 5, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this
Mark: The BABE is the greatest basball player in the entire history of baseball. He was as good a pitcher as he was a hitter. Barry Bonds is an outstanding ball player, but he is a 40 per year home run hitter like Aaron. Barry Bonds took illegal steriods to enhance his abilities. The Babe didn’t have to. He was a natural. Neither can come up to The Babe’s baseball abilities. If one seriously looks at The Babe’s accomplishments, he will agree with me. The Babe has 5 seasons where he hit 50 or more home runs in a season. Aaron had none. As a matter of fact Aaron was up at bat 4000 more time than Ruth and only hit 41 more home runs. If The Babe had played more in his early years, no one in baseball would come close to his home run records. Another thing about The Babe is the lift he would give his ball club just being there and participating. This of course can’t be measured, but would come down to the feeling all his other teammates would have that I’m on a team with Babe Ruth, the greatest baseball player of all time.
By dmac000
May 5, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this
I believe the great Ty Cobb “played the game with a sneer.” Pete Rose still belongs in Cooperstown. Oh yeah, how many of us writing comments could/can hit 80-100 mph fastballs 400 yards straight, juiced, or drunk?? Everybody is guilty of something!
By Bob Hammond
May 5, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this
Bonds is not the greatest player of any last years. While at Pittsburgh, he was about an average outfielder with a less than average arm, who could not throw out Sid Bream on two bad legs, on a fairly shallow hit to left. Without his steroid season homers, he would undoudtedly be well short of anyones record. Get off the Bonds is a god kick.
By dmac000
May 5, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this
I believe the great Ty Cobb “played the game with a sneer.” Pete Rose still belongs in Cooperstown. Oh yeah, how many of us writing comments could/can hit 80-100 mph fastballs 400 yards straight, juiced, or drunk?? Everybody is guilty of something!
By Chuck
May 5, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this
Before the juice, Bonds was a really good player, but he had not made the plays necessary to call him a great player (think Reggie Jackson in October). Dale Murphy wasn’t great in the clutch, either (as much as it hurts to say that). If I remember right, the Braves owned Bonds in the postseason. He cheated like a bunch of other guys. His body responded well to the drugs, so he ended up much better. I’m with the guy who said “hurry up and break the records and go away”. Sad era for baseball.
That era tainted the sport a little, and I wonder if it will survive the next thirty years. Kids today are forced to play when they’d rather be home watching the 24-hour cartoon channel or working their thumbs on video games. And to reach the next level these days, it takes complete dedication - travel ball, personal trainer lessons, a lot of screaming, etc. It’s not fun like it was when I was growing up. I wonder who will be able to relate to the game in thirty years.
By Jimmy Etheridge
May 5, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this
It’s hard to feel sorry for a man who makes it plain he doesn’t give a s**t about you.
By Valerie
May 5, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this
I go with Ted and Hank Aaron. Those guys didnt go thru with drugs and other problems and play pure baseball, I put the Babe third and I am too as I sick of Bonds too. If Pete Rose can be punished and wipe off his records, Bonds should be too. I been waiting for him to be wipe of his homerun.
By Bob Hammond
May 5, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
One further comment on Sterry Bonds. When I was young, we used to say “Cheaters never prosper”. I guess we and our parents who taught us such things were wrong. Bpnds is making a mint, when he should be banned from the game, ala the Black Socks scandal.
By Ryan
May 5, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
Not everyone will agree on who the “greatest player” in baseball is. People have their own criteria for choosing who they feel is the best. personally I don’t think hiting alot of homeruns makes you the greatest of all time. I’d like to take into consideration sportsmanship(its becoming a thing of the past to me) and how they played the game or how they impacted the fans in their stadiums. Although I do not agree, Bonds has brought excitment to San Fran. Is he a great sportsman, I think not…..not when you fight your fellow players in the dugout during a game. Its sets a bad example. How ever is he a great hitter, you bet but there are questions of his power. I don’t know if Roids helps in the ability to identify what pitch is coming(that may be a god given ability). There are too many factors to consider with Bonds. I think most of us are angry that we just don’t know for sure if Bonds has taken steroids. If we knew for surer I don’t think we would be discussing this topic. I am not a Bonds fan due to his negative presence on and off the field I think it is something that he has never been able to overcome and part of his personality. He has been this way for as long as I can remember. His actions seem to be in poor taste. That is why I am not a Bonds fan, so call me a racist if you want but it really has nothing to do with skin color. It has everything to do with how I ,as a fan,see the player and the game.
Pete Rose was a truly great player. Did he break the heats of many baseball fans? Yes he did, and his efforts on the field have been kept in the record books but will never get him into Cooperstown. Many of you would agree that he belongs there based on stats, but his off the field actions have banned him for life. Bonds will either break records or be banned for life for his “possible” off the field actions.
By JOHN B.
May 5, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this
During Babe Ruth’s career, a ball that bounced over the outfield fence was considered a homerun. He also never had to play against the best black players. No, I’m not black either. I still think Ruth is ONE of the best players ever to play the game. Along with Aaron, Mantle, Williams, Mays, Griffey and Bonds.
Also, players before the mid 70’s played against pitchers that stayed in the game for 9 innings. Today, they have to bat against 3, maybe 4 different pitchers. They are all specialty pitchers too.
Next argument; today’s players have a lot more travelling, including cross country. And night games when it’s tougher to see the ball. The schedule today is much more difficult.
The last thing is that no generation had to deal with the media scrutiny there is today.
So, basically, each generation had it’s superstars. They are all considered greats of the game. Each could be argued as the best ever. But that is impossible to do because of all the differences in the game from each generation to the next.
By Penn
May 5, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this
Opinions, Opinions, Opinions, Opinions, Opinions, Opinions.
Facts:
Ruth pitched six years and played the outfield 16.
Question: How many HR’s would he have hit if he had played the Outfield 22 years?
FactS: his won loss record as a pitcher was 94-46.
Ruth’s lifetime ERA was 2.28
He started 148 games and pitched complete games 107 times.
Ruth held the consecutive “scoreless innings pitched” record in World Series play (29) until it was broken by Whitey Ford.
His lifetime batting average was .342.
Ty Cobb hit .367 over a 24 year career but had virtually no power.
Fact: When those records were set there were only 16 teams in the majors vs 30 today. However, in all fairness there were no Hispanics, no blacks and the population of the USA was about half what it is today. It follows that for all intents and purposes the quality of players was about the same then as now.
I well remember when the old Philadelphia Athletics, Washington Senators and the St. Louis Browns were the doormats of the American League and the Cubs and Phillies were the patsies in the NL. There has always been a team or three similar to the Royals and Rays of today.
Question: So, who was the best? We all have our opinions. I met DiMaggio and he was a jerk. I also met Ted W. and he was a gentleman. And I had dinner with Stan Musial and he was the finest gentleman I ever met in baseball. I spent a week with Hank Aaron a few years back and he comes close to Musial when it comes to just plain human decency.
I see Bonds as a human misfit. He is obviously a great hitter. He has never been a great anything else. His character is flawed and despicable. It is too bad he never found a way to truly enjoy his greatness and to share it with the fans. He is detested by many and loved by few and in my opinion it is not race related. I don’t like what McGuire did either but he is not 1/10 the social misfit that Bonds is.
Let the opinions roll.
By dan
May 5, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this
Bonds is NOT the best player in the last 70 years! He cheated. Steriods made him a stronger hitter. Im glad that no one like him except for San Fran fans. I hope they leave him out of all record books..Sosa, McGwire, and Sheffield too. Cheating=disqualification
By dawgboy
May 5, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this
Great players lead their teams to victory. If Barry Bumbs’ teams ever made it to the playoffs, he was a big factor in their demise.
By JOHN B.
May 5, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this
I will agree that Bonds has been a complete jerk his entire career. There have been plenty of players that have had flawed personalities and Bonds is one of them. In fact, he probably ranks at or near the top. However, he has been a great baseball player. I’m not saying I agree with his actions, but he was a very talented ball player. It’s very sad that he has not enjoyed it more. But I think that has to do with his father’s bitterness during his career. Alleged bitterness that is. But I have read numerous reports that Bobby Bonds was a jerk as well. Maybe not quite as bad as Barry though. So it should not come as a surprise that his son ended up like him.
By JOHN B.
May 5, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this
Of course, I should a* that Barry Bonds is supposedly a great father at home. There have been numerous reports that he is very good with kids. Of course, the problem is kids look up to adults and tend to act like the adults in their life.
By JOHN B.
May 5, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this
Of course, I should add that Barry Bonds is supposedly a great father at home. There have been numerous reports that he is very good with kids. Of course, the problem is kids look up to adults and tend to act like the adults in their life.
By Robert Young
May 5, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this
Don’t forget Babe Ruth was a 20-game winner as a pitcher!
And, people, Ruth actually hit 715 home runs…before 1920, a home run in extra innings was ruled a ‘triple.’ In 1918, Ruth hit an extra-inning home run that was scored as a triple. As for on the bounce home runs, it has never been documented that any of Ruth’s homers were of that variety.
Finally, about ‘black/hispanic’ players not playing then…first of all, what about players born in the 1700’s? Did they get to play, white, black, or purple? NO. So, I don’t see that it’s fair to argue not to include any stats from the ‘white ball’ era. After all, who invented baseball…it’s a white man’s game. Give some credit that white men actually came around to letting others participate. When’s the last time you saw a black Nascar driver? How about a black sumo wrestler? Not too many black male tennis players, either. So, baseball should be given credit for breaking the color barrier in 1947, not condemned.
Oh, and there were two black players in MLB in 1880, so it wasn’t completely white. Until Cap Anson came along.
So, to review: Babe Ruth, best player ever
Hank Aaron and Ty Cobb: best hitters ever
Ted Williams: over-rated. If he played for Milwaukee would he be so famous today?
By JOHN B.
May 5, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this
Robert Young ,
I’m not saying you can not count Ruth’s stats, but just keep it in mind that he was not playing against the best players. And the reason we do not see blacks in NASCAR, Tennis , ect, is because they CHOOSE not to participate. It’s NOT because blacks are BANNED from participating in those sports. There’s a BIG difference. Blacks had to have their own league to play baseball before 1947. And it was not until the 60’s that all teams allowed blacks to play.
Ruth, Aaron, Cobb, Williams, Mantle, Bonds, Mays, Griffey, and more are all great players. It’s impossible to say who was the best!
By Zakaria
May 5, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this
Mark Bradley, That was the fairest and most balanced article I’ve seen in years on Barry Bonds. I don’t understand the imbalance in people’s opinions. the guy had hall of fame stats way before 98. Also, Larry, what did Hillary clinton do to you or anybody else for that matter. Why so much hate on? Just dislike them, you don’t have to hate them. WWJD
By cw
May 5, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this
I just don’t like that Barry is the only one being singled out in the whole investigation. We all know that he is not the only one who has ballooned up since their rookie year. Look at Chipper when he was a rookie… Bean Pole… Other examples: Sosa, McGuire, Thome,
By cw
May 5, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this
so you want your kids to look up to a Drunk (Ruth and Mantle) I would rather my kids look up to teddy ballgame, gwynn, ripken, and ozzie smith
By cw
May 5, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this
so you want your kids to look up to a Drunk (Ruth and Mantle) I would rather my kids look up to teddy ballgame, gwynn, ripken, and ozzie smith
By Tony R
May 5, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
I really enjoy all of Mark Bradley’s articles, but to put Barry Bonds above Hank Aaron is just wrong. Yes, Hammerin Hank’s not only in the top 3 in hits, as well as having the most HRs and RBI, but his DEFENSE was better. Just ask Skip Carey. “He made it look easy and kept his cap on while running down fly balls.”
Barry Bonds couldn’t throw out SID BREAM from LEFT FIELD. WEAK ARM, average defense doesn’t equal right up there with Babe Ruth when it comes to all around best of all time.
By brewerfaninATL
May 5, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this
JOHN B,
True, Ruth never faced any black players, but how do you know the black players from then would have been great either in the Majors? Blacks didn’t exactly face the BEST pitching, so maybe if Josh Gibson would have been in the Majors he wouldn’t have come close to the 850 or so HR’s. See, his numbers could be considered skewed just like you believe Ruth’s were. I’m definately not saying Gibson’s stats are anything to scoff at, they were fantastic, but it wasn’t Babe’s fault baseball was like that in the early 1900’s. Unfortunately, that’s the way it was! I do agree, however, that it is a matter of opinion do determine the best EVER. Anyone can make an argument for just about everyone, but cheaters should NOT count!
By Mart
May 5, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this
Bonds didn’t balloon up after his rookie year, he ballooned up after his 12th year. And, yes, there are a number of players who used steroids who aren’t usually mentioned in the steroid debate——Bagwell and C. Jones.
By Mart
May 5, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this
Here’s the definitive list of baseball’s greatest: (1) Babe; (2) Ty Cobb; (3) Willie Mays; (4) Hammerin’ Hank; (5) Ted Williams; (6) Stan Musial and Lou Gehrig (tie). No further discussion necessary.
By JOHN B.
May 5, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
brewerfaninATL,
I agree that Gibson may not have hit that many home runs if he played against whites and blacks. But I never said he should be considered the HR champ either. I know it wasn’t Ruth’s fault nor Gibson’s that baseball was segragated. But it was. And one has to take that into consideration when determining the best player ever. Just like one has to consider all differances from one generation to the next. From stadiums, pitchers, media scrutiny, cross country road trips, ect.
By mark
May 5, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this
Has anyone taken the time to actually evaluate the “accomplishments” of Bonds and Aaron, as they compare to the Babe? Bonds, now at 712, has already been to the plate 797 MORE times than Ruth, while Aaron (with 755) enjoyed 3965 more trips to the batter’s box than the Babe! Based on his AB to HR ratio, the Babe would have posted an additional 67 dingers had he been to the plate as much as Bonds, and added a whopping 337 MORE home runs, had he been to the plate as often as Hank Aaron!!!!!!!!!!!!
By john
May 5, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this
Controversy is stirred by those who want their opinion to affect something. It doesn’t matter what it affects, just as long as they are able to say “Hey, I am responsible for that.” These people are those that need to justify their own existence. Bonds is in a special class of players and Cooperstown bound. He will probably retire within the next 2 to years. I would like to see him set a new homerun mark because I think this new generation of fans need to see something great. 755 belongs to my father’s generation. Some will always look at Bond’s records with a stigma. For them, the game will always be a source of contention. Never seeing the purity in it again. The kid looking to the outfield fence from behind a tee can see that purity and that child needs Bonds.
By Randy
May 5, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this
All I can remember of Bonds when he played for the Pittsburgh Pirates was every playoff he choked. During the playoffs he went 0 for 20. Now is that a candidate for the best player over the last 70 years ? Then he illegally enhances his home run derby with steriods. Shouldn’t he be considered a criminal vs the best ?
By ruth the best?
May 5, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this
Ruth cannot be considered the best ever due to the state of the game during his era. To ball him the best is a slap in the face to those that were NOT ALLOWED to play in the Majors. He was definitely good, but was he better than Josh Gibson? No one can say because American society did not want that question answered at that time. To be considered in “the best ever” conversation, you must have played in an era when the game was at least “open” to the best players. I know what you’re thinking…segregation sucks. We should all agree with that.
By Ray
May 5, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
I agree with Randy (5/5/06-2:18 PM). Bonds was a choke artist. How many of the teams that he was on have won a World Series. When he leaves the game all I can say is Good Riddance.
By Stand up Bonds...
May 5, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this
I’ve never met Barry and neither has most of you. I don’t know the man but I’ve watched the baseball ball player as many of have. I’m smart enough to elude the Jedi mind tricks of those who write stories about him and others in favor of my own opinion. This is why I have Bonds as one of the best ever. He has to be top two as a player and number one as a hitter and baserunner. Bonds, just remember that it’s better to live standing up facing the hate than to die on your knees. Many have cowered to keep the favor of the media. You do not and I respect that. I don’t have to know you to make me feel better. And since what I eat doesn’t make you **, you shouldn’t care what the general feeling is about you. Just stand up and play ball. You have not failed the test for banned substances and your production has not fallen off nor has your body changed as many others have in the game. These people are “conveniently” overlooked as baseball searched for a person capable of handling this scrutiny. You’ve done well…Keep swinging that bat and keep your head up. Being liked is overrated and a false since of peace. Be you…likable or not. I don’t care about that piece…your game is the art and your artwork is some of the best ever.
By Scott
May 5, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
Hey, Guys, to me, the greatest baseball player of all time would have to be Cy Young. Just think, to equal his record, you would have to win 25 games a year for 20 years, and you’d still be short! As for Barry Bonds, he will end up like Ty Cobb as one of the most hated players ever, and after baseball, what does he really have? As far as this black-white thing, I think that many people have forgotten that Babe Ruth was bi-racial (hence the name “Bambino”), but was also incorrigible. I would have loved to have seen what Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige could have done in their prime in MLB, but that is still playing “what if?” Let’s get back to good sportsmanship, wouldn’t that be great?
By Ron
May 5, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this
I concur with an earier comment. Just as Bonds made the choice to use steroids—he didn’t have to—Ruth chose to play in a league that wouldn’t have allowed Bonds, let alone Hank. If Bonds cheated the game and cheated society, so did Ruth.
Both men feared that they couldn’t have been the best without taking a dishonorable advantage. Yet we see Bonds as the villian and Ruth as unfairly villified. It never ends.
But one would think that in 2006, we wouldn’t be so obvious about it.
By =Ran Haire
May 5, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this
If you bother to look into Mark Mcguire, I think what he did was build muscle using a high protein supplimant which after taking it you get really flabby if you don’t work out. Creatine is a natural way to get the extra protein needed for building muscle. Valdosta High School is even using it in their football program. I use to consume large amounts of Peanut butter after I worked out in High School to get the needed protein. It is a very legal and etical supplimant to use.
By cindy
May 5, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
Spitting or scuffing a ball is not and has never been against the law.
By bushwacker
May 5, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
HEY THINK, THINK ABOUT THIS
I AM AS WHITE AND REDNECK AS THEY COME BUT I DON’T CARE IF HE PASSES RUTH BECAUSE RUTH DOES NOT HAVE THE RECORD
I don not want him to pass Hank Aaron who you apparantley do not know is a black man.
As far as losing body mass, its obvious since he’s off the juice he’s turned into a fat slob like everyone else that quits taking it.
And with today’s watered down pitching I could hit home runs still.
By desertdawg
May 5, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this
If frogs had wings they wouldnt bump their a* on the water—bottom line Babe DOESNT have more home runs than the Hammer period.
By desertdawg
May 5, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this
Colin, good points earlier—
By Barroid
May 5, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this
Yes, thank you Mark, I am the greatest player in the last 70 years! Sure, my numbers are inflated, and lets face it, we’ll never see 70+ HRs again, with testing and all, but yeah, I did it. I have more MVP trophies in the case that I can count, I’ve been an all-star, I’ve been to the WS…although we didn’t win, not my fault…bullpen chocked.
I feel no shame, I did what I had to, I juiced, I used anabolic steroids to build muscle mass, and it made me stronger and more feared than anyone that wears a MLB uniform and comes to bat at the plate. I’m also a jerk, a selfish man who’s hung up on his own insecurities, and yeah, everyone is out to “get me” b/c I’m Barry Barroid Bonds! It’s me against the world. I am the “captain of this ship” and I will go down with it. I really should retire my cheating a** and never be heard from again, but I won’t, b/c I’m Barroid, and hey, I’m selfish and that’s just me. I can barely play nowdays, I have bad knees, bad elbows, but I’ll keep on playing until the end of this year. So deal with it, Barroid can withstand it all. MLB investigation, Fans getting on my case, MLB pitchers not pitching to me, books that reveal what I’ve done…they are not going to stop me, not until I’ve made such a big circus out of this that I’m the leading story on ESPN sportscenter every single night.
There you have it. Now if you’ll excuse me, time for my magic cream/clear
Sincerely, Barroid
By Hunk Erdown
May 5, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this
As long as baseball remains a “team sport”, Barry Bonds will not be the “greatest baseballplayer of the last 70 years.” No matter how many individual milestones he makes, he is not a team player in a team sport. The only way Bonds has even been able to get along with the team he plays for is if they pamper him and let him have his way with everything. He shows up when and if he wants to, he practices when and if he wants to, speaks to the press if and when he wants to, and don’t even think about asking him to show up with the team to sign some autographs for the kids… unless he wants to. He will never be a champion unless he plays for a team that wins a championship. So all he has are individual statistics, and they are, at best, in question.
As a matter of fact, you’ll never get a consensus on any player being “the best ever”, its hard enough to try and agree on a “best team ever”. It IS a team sport. Barry Bonds will never get what he wants, the respect of being one of the best ever. One of the most important ingredients in the recipe for being the best ever in a team sport is one’s record for team contribution. Bonds is like an infection on a ball club. One way that Doctors of old would treat infection is to turn loose a bunch of maggots that would be drawn to the infection and eat it up. If you turned a bunch of maggots loose in the Giants clubhouse, you could find them all the next day in Barry Bonds’ locker.
Its not a racial thing, its an ego thing.
All that being said, Barry has a huge amount of talent. One of the most talented to ever play the game, but a lot of the time, even with his talent, he was a warning track away from a home run. No one is saying that Steroids will make someone who can’t hit the ball suddenly swing for the bleachers with success. But they can certainly add a few more feet to someone’s distance who can constantly wear out the warning track. They can even make him become a home run machine. For those who say, “He never tested positive” … guess what? That was Balco’s claim to fame… to constantly stay a step ahead of whatever new testing methods were out there. Barry was not so dumb that he would go to the local gym and buy something he would get caught with. He knew so much about what he was taking that he went to Balco so they could show and prove to him that he wouldn’t get caught with their methods. Now look at him, its plain pitiful that he won’t do like McGuire, Sosa, and others who have weilded away into relative obscurity. Its the ultimate form of masturbation, he simply cannot give up until he has the self gratification of some book that says what he already believes and wants you to believe… that he is the best! No record book will ever erase the doubt. Its sad because he has lied about it so much now that he can’t turn back and recover any honor. All he can do is quit. That is the only way he could possibly gain an ounce of respect from the majority of fans. Just quit, Barry. Call it bad knees. Call it a heart condition. Just call it quits.
By WHOPPER DAWG
May 6, 2006 12:52 AM | Link to this
Nope. No kind word. He is an arrogant, selfish cheater and if I were commissioner I would ban the bum, strike his records and move on. I would also investigate the rest of the McGuires, Sosas and the rest of the bums. Clean it up. Move out the trash. If he had ever shown the any amount of respect to the game, teammates, fans and opponents I may have some empathy, but he is without class and he is withering without his drugs.
He will forever be remembered as the poster child of a game gone bad and he needs to go into the night as swiftly and expediently as possible.