AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2006 > April > 24 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USVick’s legacy to Vince: Scrutiny
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Mark Bradley
Let’s say it’s April 2003. Let’s say Michael Vick is coming off his dauntless 2002 season and hasn’t yet become the unsure quarterback the West Coast offense has rendered him. Were that the case, would there be any disagreement about where Vince Young should be drafted? Wouldn’t there be only a rousing consensus?
Three years beyond those heady days when it seemed Vick would reconfigure if not revolutionize his sport, the growing belief is he needs to reconfigure himself to become a truly effective quarterback: He needs to run less, complete more passes, etc. Because Young’s skill set bears some similarity to Vick’s, the belief here is that the transcendent Texan is being hit with the sort of skepticism that has sprung up around the Falcons’ man.
Three years ago, every NFL team wanted a Vick. Today, the feeling in some sectors is that Vick isn’t as good as advertised and might well have topped out. And that disparaging sentiment surely contributes to the wild variances regarding Young’s potential.
Some mock drafts have him going No. 3 overall, while others have him lasting beyond the 10th pick. By rights he should be no worse than No. 2 depending on what you think of Reggie Bush, and if you’re of the mind that a guy who’ll touch the ball on every snap is more valuable than someone who’ll handle it 15 times a game, Young should be your No. 1 pick overall.
First off, Vince is not Vick. Young finished third among Division I-A quarterbacks in passing efficiency last season, completing 65.2 percent. (Jay Cutler, whom some myopic scouts prefer to Young, completed 59.1.) In three collegiate seasons, Young’s worst completion percentage (58.7 as a freshman) was only slightly less than Vick’s best (59.2, also as a freshman) as either a collegian or a professional.
There’s also an inherent difference in style. Vick’s greatest college game was against Florida State in the 2000 Sugar Bowl, and even on that luminous night he completed barely half of his passes. Young completed 30 of 40 against Southern Cal in the Rose Bowl, and his four touchdown runs were a function not of raw speed but of a defense spread thin due to the threat of the pass. Young is fast, but he isn’t as fast as Vick. Vick can throw, but he can’t throw like Young.
Which isn’t to say Vick can’t beat people with his passing. He can and has. (Remember the Miami game, where he made a conscious effort to operate only in dropback mode?) The reason Vick hasn’t progressed in Greg Knapp’s offense is that it isn’t suited for Vick, who has surely come to realize as much. Why should a player so dangerous with the ball in his hands be concerned with getting rid of the ball? Why should a guy who can throw it 70 yards be asked to author 7-yard dinks instead?
Two other issues need mentioning. Vick and Young are black, and even at this late date the watching world still isn’t sure what to make of black quarterbacks. Just last season we heard the bizarre contention – made by the president of the NAACP’s Philadelphia chapter – that Donovan McNabb had disappointed his constituency by becoming a pocket passer. Being an NFL starting quarterback is the most difficult job in pro sports, and if you’re black, it’s exponentially harder. But McNabb, the classiest man in the game, has handled it. Steve McNair has handled it. Vick has handled it. Young, who as the leader of the Longhorns was subjected to as much scrutiny as any professional, can handle it.
There’s also the matter of Young’s Wonderlic score – either 6 or 16 (of 50), depending on the source. But the IQ test isn’t necessarily an indication of future greatness. Brett Favre is believed to have scored a 22, the legendary Cade McNown a 28. (Vick is thought to have scored a 20.) As Sean Jones of Oakland’s personnel department told the Houston Chronicle: “I don’t care what [Young’s] Wonderlic score is. The only score I care about is 41-38.”
That was the score on the night Young became the greatest college player of the new millennium, the night he should have stamped himself as the man to draft come April 29. Instead, he has been nitpicked to death — is his throwing motion odder than, say, Philip Rivers? — and there’s a chance he’ll slide from the top five Saturday. But Vince Young isn’t Michael Vick, who for all his detractors has done enough to make three Pro Bowls.
When he’s not being overcoached, Vick is really good. Young has the capacity to be even better.
Permalink | Comments (54) | Categories: Mark Bradley
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By gdg73
April 24, 2006 09:37 PM | Link to this
Outstanding article. If only the national media, along with some NFL talent evaluators would take the color of a QB’s skin out of the equation when assessing talent. Vince Young will be an outstanding QB in the pros. I hope Tennessee picks him at 3. If they don’t, it will be a big mistake. Alex Smith ran a similar spread offense in college much like Young. Did anybody make a fuss about it then? No they didn’t. Scrambling ability was a plus when Smith possessed that skill, but a negative in Vince’s case. What a funny world we live in. Everybody just assumed that Smith would automatically be a great pro because he fit the so-called “mold.” Well for some reason, and I think we all know why, Vince and Vick don’t fit that “mold.” I’m glad we as Falcon fans don’t have to worry about picking a QB. We already have our Vince Young. Once again, great article. Maybe it will open the eyes of some AJC readers.
By Larry
April 24, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this
Mark,
Have some courage and stop patronizing. All with a triple-digit IQ know what you’re doing.
Have you heard Young speak? If yes, know you know what is the true comparison to Vick. Let me demonstrate a little courage for you—Young, like Vick, is dumb as a box of rocks and this is why neither will ever prosper as an NFL quarterback. Yes, intelligence IS a necessary ingredient for a successful formula to pilot a sophisticated NFL offense and both Vick and Young just ain’t got enough of it.
This isn’t the NBA—you need ability coupled with intelligence.
By James
April 24, 2006 09:49 PM | Link to this
Mark,
I guess you call expressing such stupidity in writing courage. You’re a chicken man; and as dumb your description of the word. WHATEVER ingredient is necessary for success, you certainly DO NOT have it. Using your analogy, whatever your job is, it must just require some basic ability - nothing else.
By tarmar
April 24, 2006 09:51 PM | Link to this
couldn’t be any more on target, mark. well said.
i gotta think the ONLY reason the falcons have not to let vick be vick, tho, is the fear of injury. the same thing’s gonna hamper vince…the team that selects him will be determined to insure longevity and that’ll mean vince will probably, ultimately, wind up being vick.
By eduardo
April 24, 2006 10:02 PM | Link to this
good piece, Bradley. Anyone that followed Young the whole season only needed to see the Ohio St. game and the national championship game to be made a believer in this kid. On the biggest stage of college football he bested, not 1, but two heisman winners, on the same team. Millions of fans watching from home and thousands in the stands and all he did was rise to a level higher than most of us thought was achievable. Had it not been for the grace of God(that 4th down catch against Notre Dame) USC wouldnt even have been playing, so seeing all of this just months earlier, theres no feasible way to justify not taking him at leats 2nd because you could also make a strong case for Bush also, but he will be the RANDY Moss of this years draft and every gm that skips him should be jobless soon thereafter.
By gdg73
April 24, 2006 10:10 PM | Link to this
Larry,
I just saw a Young interview on the NFL Network. He is a well spoken young man. I want your honest opinion, do yo think Brett Favre is “dumb as a box of rocks” or is he considered a down to earth, good ole, plain speaking kind of guy you would want your daughter to marry? Just want to know.
By Ashy Larry
April 24, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this
I personally don’t think any of the top 3 QB’s in this year’s draft are gonna be perennial pro bowlers, but of the 3 I would want Young the most. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe Young played in a much more wide open offense than Vick did in college. Bradley fails to mention in his article that Vick led the NCAA in passing efficiency one year (I think his freshman year) when he was in college, so it’s not like Vick was a bad passer in college himself. You combine Young’s weird throwing motion and the style of offense he played in and you can understand why scouts have questions about him. I think it’s unfortunate that we normal people like to compare Young to other black QB’s, but I think NFL scouts have enough common sense (and enough money on the line) to judge a player based on his own merit. It’s not like black scrambling QB’s can’t post great QB ratings anyway, Culpepper had a rating of about 110 a couple of years ago.
By DMack
April 24, 2006 10:34 PM | Link to this
Great Article! Makes you say hmmmmmmm!
By Alex
April 24, 2006 10:43 PM | Link to this
I agree, you CANNOT judge the intelligence of neither Vick nor Vince by how they speak. Vince Young is the real deal. I agree with Bradley 100%. Vince (mark my words, in no more than 3 years, he will have joined the short list of celebrities known only by their first names) may not be as blazingly fast as Mike Vick, but he is close. Besides, the extra height that allows him to see the field plus the extra weight (of sheer muscle) that allows him to be durable enough to take a big hit or even lower his head for a first down in big-game situations are attributes that MORE than make up for a couple hundredths of a second in the 40. I don’t care how good people think David Carr is, the Texans would be stupid to pass on him, which it looks like they will.
The point is: Mike Vick + 5 more inches + 25 more pounds + Great passing accuracy = Quarterback God
By Keirhonda
April 24, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this
I think that this is a good article. I also think that when you speak about a quarterbacks stats you must also look at his OL. Mike Vick has not had a very strong OL that is way he is constantly hurt and having to play hurt. the Fact is that injuries affect performance. Once the falcons get a better O-line, Vick stats will improve. You can’t throw a perfect pass when defenders are constantly in your face.
By Keirhonda
April 24, 2006 10:48 PM | Link to this
I think that V Young is going to have the same problems as vick if he goes to a team with a terrible O-line.
By Kevin
April 24, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this
Young isn’t dumb. I’ve heard him on several talk show interviews. He seems quiet, reserved, and shy, just like me. I’m not dumb, just shy. I’m working on a doctorate and would likely sound similar to Vince on national TV. But regardless, he’s from a SOUTHERN CITY. How do you expect him to sound? Compared to Sebastian “the gar-ehhnnn” Telfair, he sounds like a genius. Here’s what I love about him - he has talked about his Christian faith and told how he has made his decisions - through prayer and the wise counsel of his pastor and family. I’m prejuciced - I favor Christian athletes who aren’t afraid to give Jesus glory through their platforms. Jesus doesn’t care if Young is red, yellow, black, or white, and neither do I. By the way, I’m a white pastor. Go Vince.
By Insane Falcon
April 24, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this
Larry, you need football intelligence to be successful at QB. Example, if we use your example, Alex Smith would have been the NFL’s MVP. Remember, this guy is smart as hell. Dan Mario scored a 15 on the Wondelick (sp). I guess he is ‘dumb as rocks’ also. However, Mario goes on to become a hall of famer. And what about Ryan Leaf, he scored extremely well on the wonderlick, where’s his career.
When I hear people call a black QB dumb, I automatically recall the days when the argument for the NFL not having black QB’s was because they were not smart enough… that the realm of the quarterback belong to us (white men). And I find that to be offensive. Something I never hear is someone mentioning a white QB not being smart enough. Now I will agree, some individuals have no reason to be playing QB (black or white); however, it is not based on their intelligence… It is based on their willingness and hunger to learn and be successful. I recall people questioning Steve McNair’s intelligence when he came out of college. However, all of that talk stopped when he became a pro-bowler and took his team to the super bowl.
In professional football, the system can make a QB. Example: When Steve Young was with Tampa, he SUCKED!!!! He went to San Fran, learned behind Montana and is now a hall of famer (FYI: It took Steve 7 NFL years before he finally realized his potential - this does not include his 2 year stint in the USFL); Tom Brady - He got into the right system and has won three super bowls… and guess what, now he is a system.(FYI: he will win 2 more and will go down as the greatest QB in NFL history - FYI 2: he will win one more in NE and after they do the unimaginable, he will win another w/ someone else).
So for anyone to insinuate that another is dumb, this individual has some issues that he/she must deal with on a personal level.
About your post Mark, I thought a lot of it was excuse driven. But he deserves to go through all of the scrutiny that all college QBs go through. There are some major issues with his mechanics. As for Vick, unless he matures, he will be forgotten about in a couple of years.
By vadoc
April 24, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this
Larry these dumb as a box of rocks qb’s are intelligent enough to fool well educated GM’S and owners into investing millions of dollars into their servicves to be their team qb. There used to be a nasty rumor around the NFL that Terry Bradshaw was dumb as a box of rocks. Well, some four superbowl titles later all his critics are nowhere to be heard. You see all people have a gift, something that they do better than others. Micheal Vick has proven he has the gift to be an NFL qb. Terry Bradshaw proved it also. The verdict is still out on Vince Young, he still has to prove it.
By BirdDawg
April 24, 2006 11:09 PM | Link to this
You’ll all find that Larry is a racist SOB and a descredit to his own ethnicity.
You give us all a bad name, Larry. Go take a long walk off a short pier why don’t ya?
By Ben Sutton
April 24, 2006 11:14 PM | Link to this
To the gentleman who said that Vick gets hurt because of his o-line.. wake up! He gets hurt because he throws his body around when he is on the loose. Vince will end up being a better pro qb than Vick. Week in and week out, Vince looked like an all-american. Especially, when he was on the biggest stage. Vick is way to inconsistent. One week, he looks amazing. The next, he is average at best. Overall, Vince is a better qb and will do great things wherever he goes. I don’t care what color he is.
By Ken
April 24, 2006 11:26 PM | Link to this
Insane, Vadoc and BirdDawg from the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU. Someone needed to say it and I’m glad you guys did.
As for Vick, the guy has been to an NFC title game, 3 pro bowls and has won 66% of his games. I think people forget that sometimes. I will take that any day in the NFL. If I’m a GM or coach I’m looking for a guy that can move the sticks and that’s what Vick does. He may not complete 60% of his passes but he gets first downs and keeps drives going. That’s what matters. Not even the best qb(Manning) can get to the Super Bowl without help. If we fix the defense then you’ll see an even better Vick.
By Insane Falcon
April 24, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this
Ben, I agree with you that Vick gets hurt because he wrecklessly throws his body around. As for Vince being more successful than Vick, “No one knows”. He is unproven… He has not taken a single snap in the NFL. I have made the same argument about Schaub (everyone calls for him, however, he hasn’t proven a thing). The biggest issue with Michael Vick isn’t his smarts or talent, it is his MATURITY. 1) When Vick gets hit a split second late, he gets up and whines to the official and slams the ball down; 2) During critical junctures of the game, he goes to the sideline and sits down on the bench instead of being in his team mates ears; 3) He continues to talk about getting back to the Michael Vick of old. NO MIKE - YOU DON’T WANT TO BE THE VICK OF OLD. That Mike will be out of the league in a couple of years. ‘Defensive players have some very evil intentions towards offensive guys.’
The day Michael Vick realizes that he is a grown up (today he is playing the part), is the day that the Falcons will become a serious super bowl contender (we’ve only been playing the part).
By Vince
April 25, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this
To all the Vick haters: If you go to NFL.com and read the Feb. 12 2006 article by Vic Carucci. The article is entitled ‘Scary’ as Vick leads NFC to win. The article talks about how players in the league view him as a guy who does things at the QB position no one else can do. Mike Vick’s peers see him as a potential GREAT QB if given the freedom to do what he does best and weapons to make it happen. The last two years Vick has been in the Pro Bowl, he is the only QB to throw a touchdown on the NFC team. With such hearalded QBs as Donovan Mcnabb, Daunte Culpepper, Jake Delhome, and Matt Hasselbeck. Vick is the only one to throw touchdowns in each Pro Bowl Game. Well you say the games don’t mean anything, but ask the players when it comes down to if you win you get $40,000 or lose and get $20,000. To the players, it counts. But I contend that people consider the other aforementioned QBs better passers, then why with the best receivers in the league and the best OL protection, and no blitzing allowed. Why is Vick the only one with TD passes? It says to me as well as his peers in the NFL, that if you give him time and quality receivers,(not Dez White and Peerless Price) he can get the ball downfield and in the endzone. Vince Young may turnout to be a Pro Bowl player, Mike Vick already is, three times over.
By DI
April 25, 2006 12:10 AM | Link to this
I really think Vick and Young give a football team the best chance to win a game as a quarterback. I just wonder if owners/gm’s will invest in their backup qb’s to cover the risk of their first string qb going down in the course of the year. Thus far it looks like Atlanta is in a good position to ensure Vick has a good backup, but next year that won’t be the case. It’s going to be tough for teams to shell out high dollars for backups that don’t play considering the ‘economics’ of the game. I would love to see it though if they can get more fun and gun qb’s though because I love watching Vick as a falcon’s fan. Best thing since watching Jam touch the pylon’s in 98…
By Ben Sutton
April 25, 2006 12:13 AM | Link to this
Good point Insane. It is all speculation until they get the chance. And Vince, I wouldn’t judge a player by their performance in the ProBowl. Yes, he is respected by his peers for his athletic ability. But to say he is better just because he has thrown a single touchdown for 2 years, that’s not true. It is an all-star game. Yes, some do care about winning. Then again, some are just glad to be in Hawaii.
By Vince
April 25, 2006 12:44 AM | Link to this
Ben I never said Vick was better than anyone based on the Pro Bowl, but I was making the case that with good receivers and a good OL, Vick can throw the ball effectively. Most Vick detractors say he cannot throw at all and it is simply untrue. People make excuses for Farve when he doesn’t play well, but if Vick doesn’t play well they say it is his fault. People aren’t being fair. People may not like Vick, but you can’t take anything away from him.
By BirdDawg
April 25, 2006 01:07 AM | Link to this
Yeah, I know, where’s all of these people when Brett Favre throws 29 interceptions last year? What do they say, that he has no O-line and no recievers and no defense to back him up?
Man, sounds an awful lot like Vick’s situation last year as well, and Vick still won more games and didn’t make as many mistakes.
And who has the better winning percentage? Oh yeah, that’s right… VICK!!!
By The Grinch
April 25, 2006 01:12 AM | Link to this
By The Grinch
April 25, 2006 01:16 AM | Link to this
Why? Why do you consistently not post my complete comments? WTF?
By Ronald Jeremy
April 25, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this
I read a dozen newspapers every day, and I’ve never seen a bigger bunch of homers than the AJC sports columnists.
Honestly, who pays their salary, Cox Newspapers or Home Depot? Arthur Blank and Rich McKay have to be thrilled to have guys like Bradley and Schultz pushing the company line (i.e., Vick is beyond reproach) day after day after day.
The only person more annoying than these two hacks is BirdDawg, who is also an arrogant, condescending, egomaniacal, pompous, self-righteous windbag.
By Rob
April 25, 2006 08:44 AM | Link to this
Mark, You know that you can’t use college stats to prove what a propoect is going to do in the pro’s. Its a totally different game. Young also played against very weak college opponents. If you been watching the College Pro Prospects Challenges on ESPN, you would see just how average Young is. Brody Croyle has beaten Young is almost every challenge. The only legacy Vick can leave to Young is “get your money early” because all he’ll leave is below average numbers just like Vick. He reminds me of Aaron Brooks and Randall Cunningham and we all know waht leagcy they left!
One last thing Mark, please dont ever use the Dolphin game as a landmark to Vicks greatness. Cause EVERY other game last year Vick played at a High School level. Vick CANNOT Throw accurately.
By Rankin Smith
April 25, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this
The main difference is Vick is 5’10-5’11 and Young is 6’5. Even Vick has admitted he has a hard time seeing over linemen when he looks down field. This is also why his passes are not accurate and high.
By G-mandawg
April 25, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this
Come on Bradley- you did not talk about size difference!!! Young is a stud and Vick is so small he gets hurt easy. That is the biggest difference dont you think? Young can knock down a linebacker! Vick will get rolled by any d-back.You cant compare those two. They are two totaly different physiques. As for Young- he has nothing to prove in my book- I dont car what color he is. He single handedly beat a USC team that had not lost in over two years. Plus all this negative talk is coming from the USC media pipeline. Country- Austin TX boy beat the glitz and glamour California team with all those famous people pulling for them. They didnt like it and want to prove it a fluke! By the way Young beat Ohio State also. It is not because Young is black! There are black quarterbacks all over the place. It is 2006 Bradley!!!! Not the 1980’s
By Vince
April 25, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this
Rob, for your info, the Dolphin game is not the only game Vick threw pretty well in. In 2004 against the broncos he became the first QB to throw for 250 yds and run for 100 yds in the same game. He had a come from behind victory against the chargers the same year. He also threw two touchdowns and ran for one in an OT victory against the panthers to win the NFC South. In 05” he threw well against the bills, and had a 300 yd passing game against the bucs. But the defense could not stop the run which is why we lost. It had nothing to do with Vick. He consistently put this team in a position to win a year ago but late drives by the bucs and the inability to stop the run against the seahawks, packers, and bucs were the reasons we lost those games.
By Brad
April 25, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this
Great article, you right on the money with the anti-Vick West Coast Offense. I understand it is a wonderfully crafted offense that has won multiple championships, however its not for Vick. Why should he be forced to throw short passes to wide receivers when he has an arm like that, it doesn’t work out well for him. Also if the Falcons need to pick up short yardage they have the greatest tight end in the game and a set of running backs that strive to pick up short gains. Also why should the Falcons try to keep all the receivers crossing within 10 yards of the line, this keeps the defenders close also and if Vick has to run, there are 11 guys close to him to get through instead of 5-7 if the receivers are deep. The Falcons need to make sure that the immediate front close to the line is not congested so as to allow for Vick to run if needed and actually pick up some yards.
By Doc Hill
April 25, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this
Good article M-Brad…especially pointing the finger right at Knapp and his dink and dunk junk plan for scoring points. Given the money we have tied into #7, if the passing game does not improve this year, who leaves Vick or Knapp?
Vince Young will be a helluva QB because he COMPETES. Thats what the wonderlick, 40, and various agility tests do not measure. Its why J. Tuggle, W. Dunn, and Alfred Jenkins all did the Falcons good: They had heart. Look for him to have a similar winning percentage as Vick because of his ability to convert first downs, and keep drives alive. Hopefully he won’t be on a team that values the back-up QB over an opportunity to get a veteran cornerback or lineman who will contribute on 85-90% of the snaps per game. Sorry, that was yesterday’s issue…
GO BIRDS!!
By Falcons Fan
April 25, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this
Fabulous article, Mark. You and Schultz have outdone yourselves this past week.
Bravo.
By T.P.
April 25, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this
Why are black QB’s always compared to one another? I haven’t read one article anywhere that compares Matt Leinert to Peyton Manning or Tom Brady!!
Racism is ALIVE & WELL!! Denial is a terrible disease!!
By Will
April 25, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this
Knapp’s offense just flat out stinks for Vick’s toolset as a quarterback. It’s like King Kong trying to lob a ping pong ball out there! Let the guy either pass the ball for more than 5 yards, or let him run. It seems like the team is more concerned with keeping their franchise (Vick) from getting hurt than they are winning games. Well guys, the window is narrow, and it’s about to close. Let the freak run wild.
By Falcons Fan
April 25, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
Invest in protection for Vick as if he were a “Favre” and “Aikman” or “Manning” and let’s see what the naysayers have to say. There’s a very good reason the Falcons lose the overwhelmingly majority of their games unless Vick is behind Center — only Vick can win here where the team will not invest in quality Oline. His elusiveness masks the horrid play of Weiner and McClure — but even that has limitations.
And don’t even get me started on such “starting WRs” as Price, Dez, Gaylor, McCord, etc. People should stop pretending that Vick has had even decent support here while tricking folks into thinking the team is “elite.”
Credit to McKay for doing something about WR. Now let’s see if he can get another bookend OT to team with Gandy to replace the terrible Weiner. Then we’ll know the team is aware of how to become a legitimate balanced threat.
By Whopper Dawg
April 25, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this
I don’t know if you solved Young for me, but you did solve Vick - a 20 on the Wonderlic - that explains it. That is one easy test, my friend.
By Ryder
April 25, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
I think people confuse speaking with intelligence. Ok, Alex Smith was considered a “smart” quarterback, that sure translated into NFL success so far hasn’t it?
These days NFL defenses are much faster and as a result QB’s must have some sort of mobility. Want an example, just look at Manning and Brady. Brady has the ability to move a bit when necessary, wheras Manning is a total statue and when his O-line broke down he was toast.
It’s funny how athleticism is criticized as a bad thing and intelligence is overrated. It’s all about game management, which Vick does possess when you take the time to analyze his game instead of condemning him because he’s not your “mold” of quarterback. Young has shown that with proper coaching (and not overcoaching) he will be the same type of player.
One thing people seem to forget about Vick is that he has shown the ability to lead this team in crunch time late in games. Go back to his numerous comebacks. Give me that kind of threat anytime.
Oh for future reference please don’t respond to the Larrys of this blog, because you’ll only become dumber after reading his posts.
By Mike
April 25, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this
People, people if the Falcons would have made the playoffs would we even be having this discussion? NO! Secondly, why all of a sudden is this being twisted into a race issue? I’m black and I didn’t see anything racial in the article. Must the race card be played in everything?
By James Bacon
April 25, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this
I have always enjoyed reading your commentary. Once again I find myself agreeing with the comments made. I believe Vick’s struggles with Falcon’s offense is partly due to Knapp’s inability to see that Vick’s skills are unsuited to the West Coast offense. Should Atlanta change their offensive scheme? No! It’s too late for that. But they should try to adapt Vick’s skills to the West Coast offense if possible, or find a new, more creative minded, offensive cordinator.
By Mike
April 25, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
Ignorance is Bliss
By David Eanes
April 25, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this
Mark,
Good article.
However, there’s a few things that I don’t personally agree with. For one, you can’t really compare the college careers of Vick and Texas. Vick only stayed until his sophomore season, while Young stayed all four. Vick didn’t have near the talent at VT that Young did at Texas (they’re a top 3 recruiting class every year).
And last, but certainly not least, Vick played an FSU team that could’ve walked all over Texas or USC that year in the Sugar Bowl. That wasn’t a team just predicated on offense; that was a team who had an incredible defense, which really allowed them to open up their offense (their D was 2nd in the nation, and they also had some guy named Peter Warrick).
All in all, though, I thought it was a good article. I never thought I’d say it, but I’d almost like to see Dan Reeves come back (to hell with Mora and his lousy coaching staff; i.e. Donatelle and Knapp).
By quint
April 25, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this
People always talk about Mike Vick’s accuracy. But I always thought that it was harder to throw a ball those middle distances with accuracy because the receivers don’t have time to adjust once the ball is in the air. Those 7-20 yard passes are in the air only a split second. If the quarterback is not pinpoint accurate, the receiver had better have great hands. I can look like a genius if my receivers can run under the ball and make catches on the run. Those quarterbacks with alot of those high accuracy numbers are also throwing the ball downfield more than Vick is being allowed to do. Does this make sense or am I just delusional?
By Ryder
April 25, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this
good point quint, if Vick’s not allowed to utilize ALL of his unique talents, how can we expect him to ever become a complete QB? Only Atlanta would allow this to happen. There is no justification in this Mid-West Coast Offense if he doesn’t even know what it’s supposed to be. Ridiculous! I’m sure most of the reason Schaub looks so comfortable back there when he plays is because the system takes advantages of his strengths. Play to Vick’s strengths and stop babying him, Knapp!
By ironfeet
April 25, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this
I am extremely happy that more REAL Falcons fan have responded to this blog. You know, the ones who actually watch this team and know all the stenghts and weaknesses. Not the ones that blame everything on one guy. As for Vince, whichever team’s GM that passes on him will be out of work in the next 2 years. The man’s a stud. Same thing with Reggie Bush or Mario Williams. I would hate to play against any of these guys twice a year.
By dougmarley
April 25, 2006 07:04 PM | Link to this
Mark, this is an excellent article as usual.I wish more people had the courage to speak the truth about the realities of racism and the role it plays in sports and society.Mike Vick and Vince Young are both uniquely talented athletes that are better equipped to handle today’s NFL defenses.Mobility is a premium.And to Larry,Vick has as many Super Bowl appearances as Manning;none
By Steve
April 25, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this
I think the author hit the nail on the head. People seems to find every fault in Young, but I recall that David Carr also threw side armed, but we did not hear about that as much. Alex Smith ran a spread offense in college but that did not matter.
Now let us talk about Vick. People say that Vick needs to stay in the pocket. I say what pocket. The falcons does not have a pocket. The defense is on Vick before he can set up in the pocket. Let us look at the play calling. How many times can you run a naked boot? The falcons ran the naked boot so much that it did not fool anyone. The falcons needs improved play calling and a better passing blocking line.
You want to talk about smarts. If you go by the test score then Bruce Eugene may be the best QB to every grace the NFL. He scored a 40. The guy has a strong arm. He throws a perfect spiral every time he passes the ball.
By Steve
April 25, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this
I wish all those that say Vick can QB would be able to stand behind the Falcons OL during a blitz. Then you can tell us how easy it is to passing when your line get bull rushed.
By William Kitchens
April 25, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this
“Two other issues need mentioning. Vick and Young are black, and even at this late date the watching world still isn’t sure what to make of black quarterbacks. Just last season we heard the bizarre contention – made by the president of the NAACP’s Philadelphia chapter – that Donovan McNabb had disappointed his constituency by becoming a pocket passer. Being an NFL starting quarterback is the most difficult job in pro sports, and if you’re black, it’s exponentially harder. But McNabb, the classiest man in the game, has handled it. Steve McNair has handled it. Vick has handled it. Young, who as the leader of the Longhorns was subjected to as much scrutiny as any professional, can handle it.” MARK BRADLEY
When… what year… can we stop using race to describe a man or woman?
And while McNabb has shown class at most times (see recent remarks about the Eagle’s FO), what makes you say (believe) he’s more classier than Warrick Dunn or any other respected NFL athlete.
Any athlete judged on their race and ability is not being judged fair. Let’s judge a player by their talents and quit using race to divide the catagories.
By Ken Strickland
April 26, 2006 01:52 AM | Link to this
As for gdg73, I feel sorry for you. You aparently have a glass of racism with every meal. This ignorance concerning judging or measuring someones intelligence is stupid. It is absolutely, positively impossible to measure anyones intelligence. It is a commodity that can be recognized, but not measured. The concept, as well as the degrees of intelligence, is relative. It was through sports that the immorality and mental dullness of racism and segregation in this society began to slowly melt away. It is just as ironic that in today’s society it is again sports that exposes that same immorality and mental dullness in people like gdg73. There are too many mental, physical, circumstantual, and/or emotional variables that can and often does come into play when analyzing ones potential for success.
By Waymon
April 26, 2006 07:22 AM | Link to this
If Vince did make a 6 on the wonderlic(sp) test, he certainly made the brilliant Matt Leinert look pretty average in that championship game…lol If Matt would have performed like Vince in that game he would be chosen #1 on this Friday instead of Saturday.
The game is played on the football field…I wonder what Dexter Manley made on that test, and if it affected his play on the field? Dan Marino made a 16 or something close to that….did it affect his play on the field?
By Ken Strickland
April 26, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this
Waymon, please. You are simply overpowering these anal retentives with your logic, common sense and intelligence. There is a limit to what these dimwits can consume.
By p
April 26, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe how totally wrong people are here. the QB that SHOULD be compared to vince young is jason campbell, not vick.
campbell was a first round pick that did not play a down last year. May not play this year either.
the problem? he was a one read - or run QB at auburn, and that’s the way young was coached.
so the problem with young is not his smarts, the problem’s his college coach. that and the fact that not many clubs are going to pay him TOP money for him to sit two years to learn the NFL game.
both kids will be decent QBs by year 5
By Phyuck Yiu
April 27, 2006 01:24 AM | Link to this
P, every scrambling QB in college is a one-read or run QB, which is why it takes them so much longer to adjust to the NFL.