AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2005 > December > 06 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBraves off hit list of city grinch
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Mark Bradley
If we Atlantans seem a tad surly headed toward the holidays, it’s because our pro teams are in synchronized swoon. The Falcons are about to miss the playoffs. The Thrashers need to fire whoever’s in charge of groins. The Hawks, who were the NBA’s worst team last season, are again the NBA’s worst team. And the flagship Braves are losing players at their usual dizzying December rate even as the ravenous Mets are adding everybody in creation.
Amid all this gloom, isn’t there one reason to be cheerful? The answer, happily enough, is yes. The answer, as ever, is the Braves. They always look bad in December, but they don’t start playing until April. And by then they’re just fine.
What about the Mets? Granted, the Mets have hungry eyes and a fat wallet. They’ve added Carlos Delgado and Paul Lo Duca and Billy Wagner, which essentially makes them a combination of the Marlins and the Phillies, two teams that geared up to finish ahead of the Braves by hiring all three of the above. Given that the Mets already had Pedro Martinez and Carlos Beltran — and also Tom Glavine, whom you might recall — the trusty New York tabloids have proclaimed them the favorite to win the NL East. To which we say: Goody for them.
See, somebody else is always being proclaimed the favorite to win the NL East. Nobody else ever does. As strong as the Mets look today, they’re no more imposing than the Marlins of 2005 (who had Delgado and Lo Duca and Miguel Cabrera and Josh Beckett) or the Phillies of 2004 (who had Wagner and Jim Thome and Bobby Abreu and Jimmy Rollins). How’d those races turn out?
Kyle Farnsworth is gone, which means the Braves again need a closer, but let’s keep his loss in perspective. Farnsworth was only the closer of last resort — Dan Kolb and Chris Reitsma had already flubbed the job — and when it came time for him to hold a five-run lead in Game 4 in Houston, he couldn’t. The Braves are going to have to go find somebody else, yes, but they’ve got some money to spend now. They can take a run at Trevor Hoffman, who’s as established as Farnsworth is flaky, and if all else fails, there’s still Joey Devine and/or Macay McBride.
The absence of Rafael Furcal opens two holes — shortstop and leadoff man. Furcal became a good shortstop, but for reasons unclear he hasn’t become the consummate No. 1 hitter he should be. There are ways to override his departure. (Play Wilson Betemit at shortstop. Import Juan Pierre to lead off. Import Edgar Renteria to do both.) The enduring beauty of the Braves is that they’re the best in the business, probably the best in the history of their business, at finding workarounds.
And that’s the greater point: We can have concerns about the Braves, but by now we should have faith that they’ll think of something. They always do. (Until October, anyway.) We have no such assurances about the Falcons, though this coaching staff believes itself to be quite clever, and the Thrashers haven’t solved a problem yet. And the poor Hawks, goodness knows, are experts only at making a bigger hash of things.
You can worry about teams that haven’t done much, or haven’t done it consistently. You can’t argue with 14 consecutive division titles. You can’t argue with the Braves’ ability to find replacements when a big name happens to leave. If they could replace Glavine and Kevin Millwood and Damian Moss in the rotation in the same offseason and Gary Sheffield and Javy Lopez in the lineup one winter later, they can override the losses of Farnsworth and Furcal. They’re the Braves, and this is what they do.
So cheer up . ‘Tis the season to be, if not fully jolly, then certainly a bit less crabby. Camp Roger is just around the corner. (And what happened to that Leo guy? Well, he left, too.)
Permalink | Comments (485) | Categories: Braves / MLB, Mark Bradley
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By WW
December 7, 2005 12:07 AM | Link to this
Great article Mark! Does anyone know if Kolb is still on the roster or did we dump him like we need to? What about a trade for Brad Lidge? Would this be possible? I think the Braves will be fine and win the NL East yet again! The Mets will always be losers even when expected to win. I hope the Dodgers flop with their huge payroll between 2 former Braves. Good riddance!
By Shelia
December 7, 2005 12:23 AM | Link to this
I hope the rumors are true about Edgar comming here,and I also hope the rumors I have heard about Lidge are true also. But I still think the Braves would need a bigger bat in LF. What do you think?, and do you feel JS can pull off these two trades?
By Gregs
December 7, 2005 12:42 AM | Link to this
The Edgar Renteria thing caught me by surprise. I’d rather have Edgar over Furcal, because Renteria seems more experienced and he seems more consistent. Rafael was great, but seemed great for one half of a season. It appears Lidge was just thrown out there, but I highly doubt Houston would give up such a prized possession in the bullpen. I’d see more of an outlook as a Trevor Hoffman or a Dany Baez as our closer next year.
By Jim
December 7, 2005 12:43 AM | Link to this
Thanks JS!! Keep up the good work.
By John Crawford
December 7, 2005 12:46 AM | Link to this
Renteria is goood, but I wonder what JS has in mind for a closer?
By Chuck
December 7, 2005 12:58 AM | Link to this
Mark,
I think getting J. Pierre for leadoff would be a good idea. Why doesn’t anyone mention Orr as a possibility at SS? I believe he could be an oustanding player if the Braves give him a chance in the lineup.
Mark, you and AJC need to hold the Hawks accountable for the horrendous trade for Joe Johnson. Why is Boris Diaw suddenly a very good player after he leaves Atlanta…lack of coaching maybe? Granted we need to give the trade a couple more months to know for sure…but early returns show the Ex Hawk Owner was smarter than Billy Knight. Oh by the way, the Hawks have lost two first round draft picks too!
If this were a large city the Hawks management and coaches would be in the frying pan. Only in the ATL can a team get away with this bad of a product.
By eric
December 7, 2005 01:00 AM | Link to this
Boy…we would lose alot in a tarde ofr Renteria. Looks like they are asking for Marte and either McCann or Salty dog. Boy that is steep. But I guess not as much as TB was asking for Lugo alone. They where asking for marte and 2 top pitching propects on the level of Davies.
By Harry
December 7, 2005 01:09 AM | Link to this
I’m a Red Sox fan as well as a Braves fan (yes, it is possible to love two teams) and when I first heard the news that the Sox might be dealing Renteria, I got excited- and then I found out that the Braves were the likely recipient. He’s a hugely expensive player who was defensively atrocious last season. Losing Andy Marte for him alone (maybe throw Baez in the deal too? but that won’t happen) seems like a high price to pay for a guy coming off a bad season, who by the way will make $10 million this year. A deal like this seems like a good one for the D-Rays, which I guess is what happens when Chuck Lamar isn’t running the show anymore. Oh, and watch Arrested Development.
By Hawaii Brave
December 7, 2005 01:37 AM | Link to this
Never mind the players.Easy come, easy go.The one missing from the 2006 Braves, that will hurt the most. Leo Mazzone
By Cory Bearden
December 7, 2005 01:39 AM | Link to this
I think the trade for Renteria would be great. Where would Marte play anyways? His minor league experiment in the outfield was unsuccessful, so right now he is most valuable as a tradeable commodity. And I don’t think Lidge is available unless we’re willing to give up a guy like Francoeur, which we never will (keep your fingers crossed)…And a thought on the Hawks, I don’t think we would be AS bad as we are if Chris Paul, not Marvin Williams had been our pick. Now we’re going to have to pick a guy like Daniel Gibson or Rondo too high this year unless we can trade one of our six small forwards who can’t shoot for a second tier point guard. EVERYONE knows PG and C are your hardest spots yet we want to make the “Should still be in college SF DUNK CONTEST team.” And what makes it all even worse is that we won’t be able to draft Adam Morrison, our Father’s gift to basketball
By Ross
December 7, 2005 01:55 AM | Link to this
Hello? Is everyone forgeting about how bad that Braves Bullpen was? They had the most blown save in the majors i think and lossing Farnsworth isn’t going to help. While JS was watching time fly by, the Mets, Yankees, Cubs and Blue Jays have upgraded there Bullpen. We need a new GM and new ownership.
By kevin
December 7, 2005 02:25 AM | Link to this
Great article Mark.
What’s this I hear about Brad Lidge? Is that even feasible?
By Andy
December 7, 2005 03:51 AM | Link to this
DON’T TRADE ANDY MARTE!!! In a few yrs when Chipper retires, we’re going to be looking for a 3B then, plus look at the numbers that Renteria put in Boston last year. Furcal was a better player than him. I say move Chipper to 1st(Braves weekes infield offensive position) and bring up Marte to play 3B. Let Wilson Betemit play Shortstop or if possibe try to trade Estrada and Laroche for a shortstop/leadoff hitter. Trust me Renteria is not the answer!! Marte will be a much better player and his is the best prospect the Braves have. To give Marte up for Renteria is STUPID.
By Andy
December 7, 2005 04:09 AM | Link to this
By the Way Marcus Giles had more stolen bases than Renteria
By Andy
December 7, 2005 04:09 AM | Link to this
By the Way Marcus Giles had more stolen bases than Renteria last season
By mark
December 7, 2005 04:24 AM | Link to this
I whole heartedly agree with Mr.Bradley’s attitude toward’s the Bravos future. However , As a braves fan over the last 30 years I have witnessed the vast improvement in the front office , scouting and minor league system. The Braves have their greatest asset in the scouting department , unfortunately I’ve witnessed the bleeding of far to many player’s ( braves draft picks on somebody elses major league roster ) one world series championship isn’t much to show for all the talent the bravos have contributed to the major leagues. I have alway’s disagreed with JS philosophy of trading minor league talent for proven veteran’s. After all , a division championship isn’t worth much in my book , although 14 in a row is a great accomplishment. but the real carrot is a world championship and that has been and continues to be the achilles heel for Atlanta. I say let the kids work it out in spring training and put the effort’s of the best scouting department in baseball to work for the Bravos. Kid’s like Marte , Betemit , McCann and all the rest deserve the chance to prove their abilities in a braves uniform and not traded for overpiced veteran’s.
By Bill
December 7, 2005 06:28 AM | Link to this
The Braves have the best organization in baseball - fact, not opinion. JS has proven himself for nearly 20 years in the sport and he is the most coveted GM in MLB. That said, we will be fine once the season starts and we will contend, if not win, the division again. I love baseball, and baseball is made up of Spring training, a long, long season, the playoffs, then the winter season of speculation. I love it all, and the Braves have made each of these segments exciting, despite not being more successful in the playoffs. Give me the total package any day over the franchise that puts a winner together for a season or two then dismantles it after a championship. That is not appealing to me…give me a consistent winner any day. Go Braves!
By W Davis
December 7, 2005 07:48 AM | Link to this
Mark,
The Braves might be the BEST in the World at doing WORKAROUND but what do they PROFIT from doing WORKAROUNDS except first ROUND ELIMNATIONS and LOSS of GREAT TALENT.
WORKAROUNDS are GREAT for CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS however, WORLD SERIES RINGS are even BETTER and FOREVER.
AS a FAN, am I be satisfied with WORKAROUNDS,FIRST ROUND ELIMNATIONS, and LOST of TALENT?
Not only are we losing talent, we have allowed LEO to get out of town.
When will the Braves realize that for a FEW DOLLARS more they could WIN it ALL.
Fourteen or fifteen Conference Championships or what ever the number is and ONLY one (1) World Series Championship is a Great Price to Pay for “WORKAROUNDS”.
Moreover, having great talent in the FARM SYSTEM is great however losing that Talent after several years and getting Farm Hands in return does not sound like a GOOD investment too me.
The Braves should trade some of that Great Talent they have and get that one or two VETERAN Players they need to cross over to become one the ELITES of Majors.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 08:38 AM | Link to this
JS Why are you worrying so much about SS and completely neglecting the pen???!!!! What is your problem with WB??!! Dude filled in admirably last year!!! And now you want to go and pay some has-been what you weren’t willing to pay to Fooky??!!! That is crazy!! I will seriously lose all respect for JS, BC and the Braves if this goes down. They obviously have no confidence in the rooks and that’s what will kill them. Even without fooky, this is basically the same good team that won the division and should have beat Houston and prolly would’ve gotten to the WS last year. SO why F—- with it???!!!
Just build a strong pen with the likes of El Duque, Dotel, Eischen, and sign Wickman on the cheap as a stop-gap closer until Devine is ready! That alone gets us into the NLCS next year. Add a good leadoff hitter for LF (pierre, Cattalannatto, etc) and we get to the WS. Add on more shutdown starter (Vazquez, D-Train) and we win the WS next year!
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 08:40 AM | Link to this
Also, for the pen I feel that Estrada to the A’s for Shields or that guy who wears the goggles is very do-able!
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 08:41 AM | Link to this
Not the A’s….the angels!
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 08:49 AM | Link to this
Thank God!!! I just read an article in the Boston Herald saying that the renteria trade is “highly unlikely”.
http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=115923&format=&page=2
Preditcion: if BC will get over his stupid, stubborn obsession with vets which has killed this team so many times in the past, and he actually give WB a chance to be the everyday SS, WB will be our team MVP next season!! He is an ideal number 2 hitter so you can use Gily at leadoff or get a real leadoff man, and move Gily down to 5 or 6 to add some extra power prtoection to AJ.
Make Kelly Johnson the 1bman, Langy the evryday LF, and trade Roach, Estrada, Reeksma, Marte, etc for bullpen help. Or you could incluse Langy in that tradeabl list if we get a leftfielder to play leadoff.
By Mark
December 7, 2005 09:01 AM | Link to this
I dropped my Tech season tickets when Chan was extended and Braine made his brainless comments. If something doesn’t happen soon with the Thrashers, I will drop my season tickets to them for next year. Man, I’m going to have alot of disposable income to blow in 2006.
The Hawks are horrible and Belkin is looking like the friggin’ genius of the Atlanta Spirit. Any team that has 45 forwards and one legitimate center is not going to win anything, much less with Mike Woodson calling the shots. (I am still in shock that Woodson doesn’t think he has any control over the record, Mark) But, if you watch him coach during the games, he’s probably right.
The Falcons are right where we thought they would be. Many of us tried to tell folks that the schedule would be harder this year due to their finish last year - others disagreed. But that’s the NFL schedule and once we got past the patsies for the year, we have seen our real team. But it is much more fun to watch Art on the sidelines during a loss than during a win.
The Braves will win again - although if they don’t I think it will be because of Leo and not any player loss. If the pitching staff struggles all year, it won’t matter about anything else.
One thought tho’ - have we considered putting Sosa as closer? It seemed like he hit a brick wall in the 5th inning every night and he has great stuff. And lord knows, he is great at getting out of jams - most of his own making.
By Larry
December 7, 2005 09:02 AM | Link to this
Best GM in the game plus the best scouting and player development coupled with the best regular season manager and worst postseason manager equals routinely beating out 4 other teams over 162 games and then losing routinely in round one.
Now, just add a savvy manager who is better at making in-game decisions in a short series and you’ll complete the formula necessary to advance to the World Series.
Put Bobby in a senior player development role to utilize his talent judgement skills and put in a manager with the courage and willingness MAKE things happen rather than WAITING for the perfectly pitched game or 3-run homer.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this
Carroll I couldn’t agree more with your ideas on the team. BC is bringing us down with giving La Crotch to much of a chance. He doesn’t deserve it and isn’t showing signs of improving at all.
Nobody in Atlanta wants Renteria except people that are stuck back in the Marlins world series. This guy struggled at the plate last year in the American League no less. Add to that 30 errors and we are down grading from WB. All of this for 10 mil a year, sounds like somebody is getting the shaft here and it is us.
By moving Johnson to first and making those trades, we would be an exciting team with smart players. Add that to the bulpen help we can add and we would be set. Also I think Batista from the Jays would be a nice closer addition. We aren’t getting Hoffman. Wickman only wants to play for the Indians. And thank god Todd JOnes doesn’t want to come b/c he sucks more than a porn fluffer. Batista is a solid closer that is cheap and will work out fine. We have 3 young kids and one of them surely can step up in the next year or 2 to that position.
By Don
December 7, 2005 09:07 AM | Link to this
Isn’t anybody wondering why Boston is looking to get rid of Renteria one year into a four year deal? Bill Simmons of ESPN.com, who watches virtually all of the Red Sox games, spent all last year talking about how slow Renteria was and said there were suspicions that he’s a lot older than 29. With the young shortstop talent we have coming up in the minors, how does it make any sense to commit to 3 years of Renteria?
Renteria isn’t a leadoff hitter, which is supposedly what we’re looking for. So play Betemit and spend the money Renteria would soak up on that horrific bullpen.
By David
December 7, 2005 09:13 AM | Link to this
say a BIG FAT NO TO Renteria! I watched him alot last year and he was so inconsistent in his hitting! We don’t need him! Wilson is fine and if not Wilson get Juan Pierre. But if dumb head JS gets Edgar, then I will have to find another team because the trade will give up much tooooo much for a so-so player. This off season is disgusting! Am considering getting a ‘dish’, which I have NEVER WANTED but looks good now.
No closer; a loser like Edgar……makes ya wanna heave! any who disagree, go to mlb.com, find the Red sox home page, check the stats on Renteria….esp. getting runners in! I will do the same and if I am wrong, I will return and apologize. But everytime I saw this character he was always a hit short.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 09:13 AM | Link to this
Lyle Overbay is rumored to be on the block as well. Wouldn’t it be nice to trade Marte and La Crotch for him, maybe throw in a second teir pitching prospect too. How nice it would be.
By David
December 7, 2005 09:14 AM | Link to this
alot last year and he was so inconsistent in his hitting! We don’t need him! Wilson is fine and if not Wilson get Juan Pierre. But if dumb head JS gets Edgar, then I will have to find another team because the trade will give up much tooooo much for a so-so player. This off season is disgusting! Am considering getting a ‘dish’, which I have NEVER WANTED but looks good now.
No closer; a loser like Edgar……makes ya wanna heave! any who disagree, go to mlb.com, find the Red sox home page, check the stats on Renteria….esp. getting runners in! I will do the same and if I am wrong, I will return and apologize. But everytime I saw this character he was always a hit short.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 09:17 AM | Link to this
The Paul…I have been suggesting getting Overbay since the deadline last year. But I have cooled on that lately….based on his numbers, Overbay looks like a right-handed Roachie. Plus, they wouldn’t take roach in the deal because they want to free up 1b for Fielder. They might take Marte though. I’d love to get that Turnbull closer of theirs!
By Lew Hartman
December 7, 2005 09:23 AM | Link to this
To the person who wants to keep Marte-he will never play third for the Braves. Chipper is effectively signed with the Braves for four more years and Marte is ready now. He is much more valuable as trade bait than a player in waiting. I still think that Ryan Langerhans is more than viable in left field. When given all the playing time in September, he rose to the occaission. He was slashing the ball to the alleys, he has good speed, makes good contact and is one of the best defensive outfielders the Braves have ever had. Along with Andruw and Francoeur, he makes up what may be the best defensive outfields in baseball. I still think the Braves should bat him leadoff and let Betemit play short. Spend all our money on pitching and the Mets won’t stand a chance.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 09:27 AM | Link to this
Yeah and Turnbull is cheap right now too. Just read the Braves tried to get Adam Everette from the Stros and Cocoa Crisp from the Indians. HOw great would either of those be…although I would rather have the D-Train.
I love that the Yankees lost between 50 and 85 mil last year. They sell out every game almost and spend over 200 mil on a salary without a world series.
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 09:31 AM | Link to this
LeTwan finds no satisfaction in a trade for Renteria. None. He is in decline. Why give up our good, young players for tired warhorses? Betemit, Marte, KJ, and others are on the way up. LeTwan agrees that BC likes the old guys in the lineup. Maybe that’s why he says he “lets them play” - because they are vets - rather than calling for the bunt and having them hit behind the runner.
It’s a business and “our” players will be somebody else’s players next year or the next. Still, LeTwan would like to see our current young guys given the chance to win some games.
Maybe the fans are tiring of the Mondesi-Jordan crap. The kids were fun to watch - and they brought some of the excitement that has been missing for awhile with the corporate attitude Braves.
LeTwan says go to war with what you have at the positions. But, there better be a closer here by April.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 09:35 AM | Link to this
Lew that is the perfect situation. The only thing better is throwing away La Crotch and putting Kelly Johnson at first. Or even try Marte at first. We NEED upgrade pitching and first base. Middle relief isn’t as bad as people think, but we need a closer and 2 starting pitchers. Imagine Hudson, Smoltz, and D-Train in the playoffs. Can you say no more 1 and done? Also Smoltz is getting older and a young pitcher signed for the next 4 years like Dontrelle will be sweet.
By Kevin
December 7, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this
Renteria is not an upgrade, let WB play short and trade or sign someone for left. LaRoache for Overbay is a wash, almost the same numbers. Ask the Astros want they want for Lidge, use the kids to pitch middle relief, send Arizona Estrada, KJ and two pitching prospects for Vasquez. Tell Giles he is lead off and work on that over the winter.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this
I like the idea of getting Renteria. He is the explosive bat that this lineup will need. I think he will do better than he did in Boston because Bobby will make sure he doesn’t feel the pressure. However, I’m not sure this solves our leadoff problem. Renteria is not a leadoff hitter to me, but if all else fails he or Langerhans could leadoff and the threat of Renteria hitting home runs will give him enough pitches to hit and also protect Giles in the 2 hole.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 09:40 AM | Link to this
LT: I think we’re all in agreement. Keep the rooks and le them play. Trading for renteria would be mets-like (i.e. getting expensive players, older than 28 yrs old, and thus, in their decline). Bobby just needs to grow up, trust the rooks, and learn how to be stern with them and actually manage the game rather than letting vets go out there and call their own shots.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 09:44 AM | Link to this
Robert: if Renteria is so great, why did the Cards let him go last year? I submit to you that they are far better off with Eckstein at SS. Hell, I wish the fookie thing had happened last year so we would’ve gotten in on the eckstein sweepstakes. There’s a guy who is nails in the clutch….maybe he could teach our “stars” a thing or two about stepping up in the clutch. Furthermore, on Renteria, if he’s so great, why does Boston want to get rid of him after one year (and prolly pay a large part of his K to do so)????!! HE is old, man! Way past his prime!
By Pocahorner
December 7, 2005 09:47 AM | Link to this
Renteria deal makes no sense at all. If the management wouldn’t go as high as $10M for Fooky why pay that for an older, declining skill SS? I hope the report in the Boston Herald is correct. Let Betemit play! If he fails, JS can always make a trade deadline deal.
MLB.com and ESPNEWS report the Cubs have reached a deal with Juan Pierre. Mercifully, all the talk about the Braves trading for him will now end.
A deal for Scot Shields would definitely address our bullpen needs. Four good pitches (four seam, slider, curve, change) and a proven set up man. And he made a little less than a $1M last year. He’s a big ? as a closer, but he has to be better than any option we have now.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 09:47 AM | Link to this
I have to disagree about Renteria. He is far from decline. This is not Jordan, Mondesi, or Galaraga. This guy is still at the top of his game. I would like to see Betemit play too, but Renteria would give us some stability in the lineup and help cover for when the rook hit slumps, which the inevitably will. To be honest, I would rather have Renteria then Lugo even if it really does not solve the leadoff problem. The argument that he is 29 yrs old and thus not worth it makes no sense since most everyone wanted to keep Furcal who is 28.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 10:00 AM | Link to this
I don’t think the Cards had much of a choice in letting Renteria go. He went for the money. As for him being old, he is 29 and Furcal is 28. I didn’t realize that there was such a big difference between 28 and 29. I understand the concerns about Renteria. I do. He did struggle in Boston, but that could have simply been because of the pressure in Boston to beat the Yankees. A lot of Red Sox players have complained about the expectations out of Boston. Let’s remember that this guy was the one of the major reasons the Cards got to the WS just 2 years ago. I think Boston is willing to part ways with him because Lugo gives them protection for the leadoff spot if Damon does not return.
By Lew Hartman
December 7, 2005 10:01 AM | Link to this
I’m still willing to give LaRoche a shot. He is good defensively and does have power. I think he needs a batting cage at home like Andruw’s and lots of work with TP. I’m still not sold on Kelley Johnson, either. He had that one decent stretch of about 2 weeks sandwiched between two large slumps. His outfield defense leaves much to be desired. Has he ever even played first base. Does anyone know? I’m not real sure of Julio as a backup, though. Even with his traing regimen, he is ancient as a player. I’m not sure if his elbow problem was just an injury or an indication that he’s feeling his age.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this
Robert: we wouldn’t have had to give up any prospects to keep the fookster. Besides, I didn’t want us to keep fooky….that money can be much better spent on the bullpen! And, dammit, I want to see WB starting at SS! HAs everyone forgotten his slick-as-hell defense? His .300 BA?
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this
There are reports that Rentaria is 2 to 4 years older than he reports that he is. If he says he is 29 now that would make him 31 tp 33, which would make more sense about why he was able to step up like he did when the Marlins won the World Series.
If we could trade Estrada and even a prospect for Shields we would be good. I mean a closer with nasty stuff or worst case a set up guy with nasty stuff. If he fails as a closer by the end of the year we will have a young kid stepping up or some cash to deal for a proven closer then.
If we did get Shields, who is cheap we would still have about 15 mil to spend, we should use that for a first baseman…to bad Konerko is gone. We could still possibly trade for a big time first baseman and have the cash to pay him.
Also has anyone heard if the Mets are shopping Beltran at all? With his bad season they might be willing to pay some of his contract. Then you put him in left and have without a doubt the best outfield in baseball. Even without that though with Langy in left we have the best defensive outfield by far.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 10:08 AM | Link to this
Lew: Johnson used to be a SS so you know he’ll have good hands,range and quickness. He’ll do just fine at 1b (much better than LF!) and if BC will just let him play every day he should do fine offensively!
By Jman
December 7, 2005 10:09 AM | Link to this
Man, I’d love to get Renteria. That would be awesome! He had a down year last year, but a player of his caliber shouldn’t have two in a row like that. He has a knack for big hits too. Still doesnt solve the leadoff thing, but we’ll get that worked out.
All other teams in MLB should boycott the D-Rays. Asking so much for a SS who had one decent season and an obscure closer who has one pitch. Forget Baez and Lugo.
Get Renteria, and Lidge!
Salty, and Marte for Edgar.
Davies, and Estrada for Lidge, and Qualls
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 10:11 AM | Link to this
Whoa! Easy, the Paul. Just a few minutes ago you were agreeing with me about letting the rooks play….KJ at 1b, Langy in left, and getting a slew of relievers (Dotel, El Duque, Shields, et al). Don’t go crazy with the wish list, my friend :)
By Lew Hartman
December 7, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this
I haven’t forgotten about WB. All offseason I’ve been saying he needs a shot. .305 rookie batting average with substantial playing time ain’t chopped liver. Keep in mind the Braves had him play SS in the AFL. The Braves have all the bases covered. I don’t like the Renteria deal no matter what his age and even if the Red Sox pick up much of his salary. We are loaded in the minors at SS and we don’t need someone for three years. I’m really worried about the pitching. Was Blaine Boyer just tired in Sept. or is there something more to be concerned about? We need one more starter, a closer and several other middle relievers. Reitsma is just too inconsistant and too frequently hurt. Brower may have potential, but can also be inconsistent. We definitely need more relief depth.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this
Jman, I hope you don’t actually think that Davies and Estrada would get Lidge and Qualls because that isn’t gonna happen. Also players over 30 tend to go down hil rather than bounce back. Just look at Nomar, The Big Hurt, the Yankees pitching staff, Glavine, Maddux, etc. I mean once guys over 30 start they don’t tend to come back, with that said he is prolly no older than 33 or 34 so he might, but I wouldn’t risk 10 mil a year on it.
Oh and to whoever said he got to expensive for the Cards, just listen to how bad that sounds. If they wanted him he would still be there. I mean these guys just offered 10 mil a year to AJ Burnett who has a career record under 500.
We just need pitching and defense to win a championship. We have the defense and now we just need another starter and reliever or 2. JS knows we don’t need that much which is why he won’t do someting stupid like getting Rentaria.
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 10:23 AM | Link to this
The Baltimore Sun reports the Orioles are interested in Estrada, Langerhans, and Thompson. Braves want young closer Chris Ray but the Orioles don’t want to move him. Javy’s stock has really dropped, huh?
By Jman
December 7, 2005 10:23 AM | Link to this
Where’s the Scot Shields talk coming from? I havent heard that one.
By chuck
December 7, 2005 10:23 AM | Link to this
Am I the only one missing this? Why would the Braves not just trade directly for LUGO? He had fewer errors than Renteria, 24 to 30, better batting average, .295 to .276, a higher on base percentage, .362 to .335, and more stolen bases , 39 to 9. Wouldn’t Lugo be the perfect replacement for Furcal? Good range, strong arm, good base runner, high average. Why would they not do that instead of taking a chance on 3 more years of Renteria’s $10 million dollar salary with production that doesn’t come close to that kind of value?
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:26 AM | Link to this
I do agree with the letting the rooks play, unless we can get Beltran. I just heard that though, but I’m not holding my breath in anyway. Just imagine what JS could do with a 200 mil payroll like the Yanks. It would be so awesome, but we don’t.
By Lew Hartman
December 7, 2005 10:26 AM | Link to this
Lugo has only had one year at those numbers and he has character issues. He is a known wife beater and costs $4mil more than Betemit.
By chuck
December 7, 2005 10:27 AM | Link to this
OH, BTW, Pierre just went to the Cubs. according to MLB.com
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:29 AM | Link to this
Don’t take a shot on Renteria turning it around or on Lugo actually have a second good year. Let WB play.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this
Thank god for the Pierre deal going through. They were asking to many prospects for him and he is really over rated.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this
I don’t like the ‘feel’ for the Edgar Renteria deal, personally. I think, first of all, he’s a downgrade from Raffy, which I guess can be expected since Furcal was among the better SS currently playing, but I have serious concerns about his play last season, and he ain’t exactly CHEAP himself. Why throw the money we just saved by NOT signing Furcal to sign a guy who’s not playing as well recently?
At this rate, given it wasn’t wise to spend what it took to keep Furcal, we should just go ahead and let Wilson Betemit have his shot at it, and maybe sign a journeyman SS backup. Going after Juan Pierre would be good, but I also think what we have now isn’t exactly chopped liver. Langerhans is only GOING to get better, I think our outfield is set with him at LF, Andruw in CF and Francouer in RF, our infield is fine with Chipper, Betemit, Giles and LaRoche, and McCann is ready to play full-time.
The LaRoche detractors are off-base. he’s consistent, with upside potential still, in only two full seasons played. The rest of the aforementioned position players all either hit well, hit for average or are early enough in their careers to expect improvement.
I say to heck with patching the positional players… work on the BULLPEN. Do that, go with Smoltz, Hudson, HoRam, Thomson, and Sosa (and if you’re gonna throw $10 million at a name, go get Zito instead of one of those guys), and FIX THE ‘PEN!
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 10:36 AM | Link to this
I think the rule of thumb for JS should be: don’t even consider a trade for a non-pitcher unless it’s a player that is so good that you don’t even have to think about it.
LT: who the hell is Chris Ray???!!! What is wrong with JS???!! Why is there no talk at all about relief pitching??????!!!!!!!
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this
The KC Star reports the possibility of one of the Royals relievers and shortstop Angel Berroa to Atlanta for one of the Braves’ young corner outfielders — either Kelly Johnson or Ryan Langerhans — and another top prospect. Interesting.
By Lew Hartman
December 7, 2005 10:38 AM | Link to this
If everyone thought like Ron Roberts and myself, the Braves would win number 15 straight with no problem.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this
Lew Hartman: I’ve been saying the same exact things that RR just said repeatedly for the last few weeks.
LT: NO!! NOT INTERESTING!!! We don’t need a SS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And we sure as hell don’t need ANY relievers from KC!!
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 10:42 AM | Link to this
I do agree with that, Chuck. I think it would make more sense to get Lugo directly but the Rays want McCann, which JS doesn’t want to give up and I wouldn’t either.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this
The Paul said,
“Also players over 30 tend to go down hil rather than bounce back”
“I mean once guys over 30 start they don’t tend to come back”
Ever heard of Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Jim Edmonds, Gary Sheffield Roger Clemens, Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, & John Smoltz? These guys have had their best years SINCE turning 30.
And using the “Over 30” theory you can expect dropoffs this year from Bobby Abreu, Alex Rodriquez, Scott Rolen, Derek Jeter, Vlad Guerrero, & David Ortiz. And someone needs to let all those teams in the Manny Ramirez derby to forget him…He’s 33.
By Lew Hartman
December 7, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this
Carroll, you also are a true genius. WE NEED PITCHING!!
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:44 AM | Link to this
Chris Ray is supposedly the #1 or #2 closer in the minor leagues. We would be lucky to get him and give him his shot…imagine Houston Street without a college championship.
I thought Thompson was a free agent this year? Also whoever thinks he is a #3 starter is completely wrong. He has a Maddux like arm without movement. If we can upgrade him, first base, and the bullpen with a closer and 1 more set up guy we would be set.
Also La Crotch is one of the most consistant first basemen in history. Just look at the month that he got 3 hits. The consistancy that he does have is at sucking. Chipper needs to do everybody a favor and tell the organization that he won’t get mad if they trade him.
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this
Carroll, it’s being reported in big city papers, LeTwan’s not making it up. Guess JS is looking at a lot of moves. Hope he only makes moves in the pen, personally. If he has to give up the good young players he better have a fix for the pen. No reason to bring in more SS in this organization. No need for more OF either. Every paper says the Braves are hunting at SS. Now, why would that be? Leading edge paper like the AJC oughta’ be able to tell us something, wouldn’t you think? They cover the aquarium better than the Braves.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this
JMan: some of those players you mentioned did well after age 30 because of steroids. Some others are pitchers which I don’t really include in the post-30 decline as much as position players. And I do expect a dropoff from A-Fraud, and Vlad already started slipping last year as did Sheff, Johnson and SMoltz. Ortiz is a DH so his slippage won’t be as apparent. And besides, those were some of the few immortals in the history of the game…true exceptions…NOT the rule! The Mets fortunes of the last 20 years represents the rule….paying big for guys over 28 will NOT pay off!
By Jman
December 7, 2005 10:50 AM | Link to this
If we can get Berroa cheaper than Renteria we should go for it. Renteria is a great SS. But Berroa is cheaper, younger, and has greater upside. He was AL ROY in 2003. On the other Renteria is a 4 time All-Star, and a great clutch hitter. Not to mention he’s great with the glove. Had an off year last year, but that’s just Boston. Why do you think Manny wants out? That place and those fans are crazy! Especially with only one World Series Championship in almost 90 years.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this
Berroa would be a terrific pickup. Now, I agree about any releivers from KC. I can’t imagine what use any of them would have.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this
LT: I know that you aren’t making it up…that’s what makes me so angry. I know JS isn’t stupid…why is he doing this to us??!! Enough with the position players already!
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this
Jman: Other than Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, & John Smoltz, the guys you mentioned are all linked to or are reportedly in the steroid controversy. So lets get Edgar and shoot his butt up…maybe he can pass the test. Don’t talk about Bonds b/c this douchebag lost 45lbs since the steroid ban started. Mark basically admitted to it when testifying in congress. Edmonds and Clemmons have been mentioned on ESPN radio. Oh and the Sheffield, yet another guy that didn’t know he was using roids. Also don’t forget Ralphy Palmiero from your argument.
Now Clemmens never really had a drop off, I think everyone can admit tht he was good in Boston starting off. Even in Toronto he was always a Cy Yong candidate. Smoltz has been dominant since 91. Nolan Ryan has always been good since the early part of his career. Randy Johnson didn’t get dominant until he was in his late 20s, but until last year he hadn’t had a down year.
The main thing you are missing from my argument is people that don’t use roids and are past their prime, typically follow up a sub par year with another, and another and then retirement. You can find superstars that comeback from injuries but not struggling b/c they are old.
By chuck
December 7, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this
That’s true Lew, but his number have gone up each year since ‘03 and Furcal wasn’t exactly a model citizen either. He has a much lower downside than Renteria.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 10:57 AM | Link to this
JMan: when you say renteria is a great clutch hitter, are you referring to the one time he came through way back in 1997? Because I remember much more recently that 2 yrs ago he was th last out for the cards, and this year he was the last out for the bosox.
Robert: what makes you think that Berroa is a great pickup?! Because he was a ROY in a year where there simply weren’t many good candidates??!! You know, Todd Hollandsworth was alos a ROY a few years back….should we keep him? Berroa’s not a leadoff man, and his numbers are worse than WB last year!!!
By Jim
December 7, 2005 10:58 AM | Link to this
Renteria is an interesting proposition. OPS - OBP + Slug% has gone from .874 to .728 to .721 last three years. Big dropoff was between last two years in STL. No wonder they let him go. In ‘05, his OPS v. LHP was .866 (very good, with a .326 BA - 193 ABs). His OPS v. RHP was only .655 (with a .253 BA - 430 ABs). His Range Factor was 4.35 with a .954 F%. Not exactly Luis Aparicio, or Furcal.
Betemit, by contrast (or in tandem) had an .855 OPS v. RHP (with a .327 BA in 168 ABs). He only had a .661 OPS against LHP. His RF was 4.22 with a F% of .985. In ‘04, in very limited time (74 innings) he had a RF of 5.06 but a F% of only .933. So, probably a push in the field (but can’t comment on “quick hands on DP”).
Pete Orr in very limited ABs (23) had an OPS against LHP of .918. His RF and F% at 2B and 3B are good.
Platooning Betemit so that he plays against RHP seems indicated - a full .200 (30.5%) over Renteria’s OPS in ‘05. That tandem, per ‘05 #s would hit over .300 (say .310) and have an OPS above .800.
I’m not convinced the deal makes sense. Sure, Renteria was a bust at Fenway (trying to aim for the Green Moster too much?). But if you look at what happened between ‘03 and ‘04 in STL, that’s what frightens me - same number of ABs (587, 586), but 26 fewer hits, 26 fewer walks and 24 more SOs. Maybe Pete Orr can play SS and hit LHP a bit better than WB, or, do the Braves have access to a very good SS glove who can play against LHP (say 30% of games), bat in 8th position, and not be completely intimidated at plate. Giles, Betemit, CJones, AJones, McCann, Francoeur, LaRoche, Langerhans, v. RHP is a strong line-up. And, 5 of first 6 also bat RH. Since all good teams need two good catchers, use Estrada against RHPs.
Critical issues - do Braves believe Betemit can approximate ‘05 hitting, and get better defensively at SS? If answer to question is “yes,” why do Renteria deal, unless platooning two is intended. (Not sure Renteria will like only getting 250 ABs, and a lot of $$$ to pay for a platoon player.)
McCann v. Estrada his .280 with a .719 OPS against RHP last year. McCann hit .333 with a .940 OPS v. LHP last year (but only 36 ABs). Against RHP, he hit .264 with a .697 OPS. So, not that different against RHP. Estrada is a little bit better defensively, throwing out 30.5% of base stealers versus McCann’s 18.5%. McCann is from Atlanta (and grew up with Francoeur); Estrada is (did) not.
By TO
December 7, 2005 10:58 AM | Link to this
I don’t think bringing Renteria here would help the Braves at all, especially if we’re giving up Marte. Chipper only played in about 100 games, so why not trade him? It seems like he’s constantly injured these days. So why not trade CHIPPER to get some arms in the bullpen? Let Betemit play shortstop and bring up Marte to play third. I think the Braves have a good core of young guys who can win for years to come, so don’t mess that up. Also, because we have McCann, trade Estrada to get some more help in the bullpen or even a 4th or 5th starter. The Braves offense wasn’t the problem last year, it was their pitching. I’m hearing that the Braves may be interested in Zito from Oakland. He could rejoin Hudson and that could form a formidable 1,2,3 punch with Smoltzie, Hudson, and Zito, a punch that the Braves need to win in the postseason, at least the division series.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this
I still dont believe that you can make a a blanket statement like that. That just isnt true. Players decline around 33 or 34. I dont believe they decline at 30. No way! I could have went on for an hour naming great players after 30. Oh well doesnt matter.
At least we agree on Laroche. Way too inconsistent and slow!
By Zach
December 7, 2005 11:01 AM | Link to this
Mark-
This little article of yours brought a tear to my eye. I literally cried. I’ve never truly appreciated how fortunate we are to live in Atlanta and have a stand up organization to root for such as the Braves. I wouldn’t sell the Falcons short just yet, maybe that’s just wishful thinking but if we can find a little bit of that emotion that we played with against the Eagles in week one we can win three of the next four games and find ourselves in a playoff game come January. Holiday wishes to you and yours…
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 11:02 AM | Link to this
Carroll: I agree with what you say on most things. I wouldn’t be that upset about the closers in KC though. MacDougal was an allstar in ‘04. He is a very serviceable and very cheap closer. Berroa is a much better option than Rentaria, but I would still prefer to keep the youngsters and give WB his shot.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 11:03 AM | Link to this
JMan: I say players start declining at age 28. That doesn’t mean they suck at age 30…but they’re gradually getting worse and worse. Buster Olney just did a story about this on ESPN.com and made me a believer. YEs you can still get some good production from some players beyond age 28 but it is not wise to overpay for them in terms of $$$ or prospects. It is much better to have cheaper young players who are getting better, rather than Carlos Delgado at 33, making a trillion dollars a year, and gradually getting worse and worse with every day that passes.
By Whopper Dawg
December 7, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this
Goody for them. I love it and I agree - I am not worried about the Bravos. You got the rest right also. Falcons are going to miss, but they are headed in the right direction - the Hawks should just be put out of their misery - if they were a yard dog, you would shoot them.
By chuck
December 7, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this
Thompson is not a free agent anymore. The club had an option for ‘06 and exercised it.
By SouthernJackassradiopersonalitygonehaywire
December 7, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this
These Braves blogs are like a bunch of old maids sitting around gossiping and wondering what life could have been like…
By Jman
December 7, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this
So let me get this right. You guys want to trade Chipper (Who has been the MOST consistent bat in our lineup for years and who just restructured his contract to help the team) and start a rookie 3B who barely hit .200 in his few at bats last year? and you apparently want to go into the season with a former top prospect at SS who has had one decent season in which he barely had 200 AB’s and hit .300? Okay. Thank goodness you guys arent in the Braves Front Office.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 11:09 AM | Link to this
I always heard players peak around 30-32. I didn’t realize that 29 was old. In the case, I guess a lot of guys in the majors are over the hill. I guess A-Rod should be placed on the scrap heap now. What should Ichiro do? Maybe play for AARP traveling team or something. It looks like David Ortiz has one good year left in him and then he will be useless.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this
Again, keeping Chipper doesn’t require us giving up any extra money or prospects, JMan (although I wouldn’t shed a tear if he were traded). And, yes, WB proved himself worthy last year, period. HE certainly can’t be any worse than a painfully average SS from KC who can’t lead off; a guy past his prime in boston who makes more than we were willing to pay fooky; or a never-was from tampa who had one flukey good year out of an otherwise sub-par career and costs more than 10 times what WB would cost. We can’t lose sight of our number oe problem…bullpen pitching!!!!!!
And Actually, the things we are saying/suggesting is the way that JS usually does tend to run things, and I guess that has worked out pretty well.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this
Robert: please go back and read my last post about declining skills carefully before making such idiotic statements.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this
TO: You never trade the face of your franchise. 3 main reasons: 1-He has been hurt and wouldn’t get the deserved value. 2-He is the face of the franchise. I mean this guy is a winner that has never had a losing season even in little league. 3-He still strikes fear in the opposing pitchers. If you ask any pitcher in the majors who they would like to face between Chipper and anybody else (including Andruw) they would walk Chipper in a minute. This guy is a pros, pro. He hits with power, is clutch, not to mention above average D. Quit trying to Dale Murphy the guy with a no trade clause and let Chipper carry us again.
JMan: We do agree on LaCrotch….the guy is horrible. I just think that once players past their prime of 30 or 31 tend to decline more after a down year instead of bouncing back. I also promise you Edgar is older than 31 also. Or in ‘97 he is the best 19 year old in history. He had an awesome year and awesome playoffs…kinda fishy if you ask me.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 11:22 AM | Link to this
Excuse me, Carroll, but my statements were no more idiotic than immediately dismissing a player simply because he is 29 and his skills are diminishing (according to the average) I agree that some players do begin to decline but you have to look at the rate of decline and some guys don’t. Some guys do their best work after age 30. If you want to say Renteria is overrated then fine. But, to say that because he is 29 his skills are not good is ridiculous. Exactly how many teams have won championships with rosters all under the age of 29. Not too many I would imagine. Look at the White Sox. They were not exactly full of spring chickens (Dye, Everett, El Dugue, Contreras, Konerko)
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this
Baseball News is being reported all over the country. The AJC covers the aquarium better than it covers the Braves.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this
Robert: Stupid people should go jump on the Mets badwagon. A-Rod isn’t over 31 or 32, and he hasn’t had a down year that I know of. Also Edgar is older than he says, just like RF was and so was Julio Franco. Now alot of position players are really good after particularly steroid users. Looking at players numbers you will see they start to decline typically. And yes some people do bounce back, but I don’t want to bet 10 mil of my franchise on a guy that had a bad year.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 11:24 AM | Link to this
Why do folks’ have to have their statements labaled “idiotic” folks?
Agree. Disagree. Be undecided. But can the character assassinations and ‘holier-and-smarter-than-thou’ attitudes be checked at the door?
By Gman
December 7, 2005 11:28 AM | Link to this
Amen Jman. Man, there are some true idiots on this thing. I forgot until I came back. “Delgado is in decline” (Delgado had 30 HRs and 105 RBIs last year). “JS is an idiot” (Schuerholz is the mastermind behind 14 straight division titles). These are rumors people. Rumors. Chill out and let the man work. CHILLLLLL…….
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 11:28 AM | Link to this
Ugh… “labeled” not “labaled” :-)
By Gman
December 7, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this
Amen Jman. Man, there are some true idiots on this thing. I forgot until I came back. “Put in Wilson” (does anyone remember DeRosa and Green having good 1/2 years and then wasting away when they got an full-time opportunity). “Delgado is in decline” (Delgado had 30 HRs and 105 RBIs last year). “JS is an idiot” (Schuerholz is the mastermind behind 14 straight division titles). These are rumors people. Rumors. Chill out and let the man work. CHILLLLLL…….
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this
The Paul likes what LeTwan says.
Ron…don’t be an idiot. Stupid, idiotic statements should be called on. A player with 3 straight declining years and is over the age of 30 does not need to be traded for. He more importantly doesn’t need to be given 10 mil a year like Edgar. Just look at the Mets, Yankees, Phillies, and other organizations that sell off their future for old guys past their prime.
Ron just jokin about that idiot thing, but really you should loosen up some. If somebody says something stupid, they should be called out for it…case and point trading Chipper away.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 11:33 AM | Link to this
Well, THe Paul, thanks for calling me stupid. I really appreciate it. Again how many teams have won the WS with a roster under the age of 30. And for your information A-Rod is 29 and will be 30 in July of next season. I don’t dispute that guys decline as they get older. That is only natural. However, it is stupid to dismiss someone becasue they are “older”. Let me ask this question. Who here would take Roger Clemmons if he were available? Smoltz is 39. Should we trade him?
By George
December 7, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this
Looking at all these comments about the Braves leads me to ask if someone at the AJC can explain why there is so much coverage of the Hawks? Or the Thrashers? The Falcons will somehow survive, just as the Braves do every year, but really are there enough readers around who care how the Hawks and Thrashers do? Mark Bradley, do a column justifying your paper’s excessive coverage of these two teams.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 11:36 AM | Link to this
Rob: I said your comments were idiotic because you are distorting my comments and missing my point. I never said, “don’t get a guy 29 or older because he will suck”. I simply pointed out a fact: after age 28, a players skill begins to diminsh. Thus it is unwise to overspend for him either in tems of dollars or prospects. That doesn’t mean “never get a player 29 or older”, as you seem to conclude…it just means be smart and selective in doing so. I don’t think it is smart to get renteria at the expense of marte and salty, when he makes a fortune and can’t do much more than WB could do for the league minimum.
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this
LeTwan just read in the AJC that the aquarium signed a bowmouth guitarfish — a winged creature that looks as if it were designed by committee — from Taiwan. No news on the baseball front. Maybe by the weekend, huh?
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 11:39 AM | Link to this
I just don’t think anybody spending their time all day blogging should be wrapped up in calling anybody in here an idiot, or labeling their comments as such.
Folks participating in here are baseball fans, most of ‘em Braves fans, and there isn’t a soul in here who hasn’t floated a turd of an idea, suggestion, or comment in here. But I’m sick of seeing some folks try to deride anybody else while they later get their panties in a wad over somebody turning the tables on them.
Hard to believe on a blog of mostly male sports fans that there’d be prima donnas, but it’s true.
The person who’s post was called “idiotic” has had some good points, osme I agree with, some I don’t, but nontheless, I didn’t see the need to have his comments labeled as “idiotic.” I just don’t see the benefit of doing it; it certainly doesn’t bolster anybody’s argument or point-of-view. In fact, it tends to make that person doing the bashing look more juvenile than they really are.
And that goes for everybody.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this
I see, Carroll. I wasn’t referring to you. I was talking about “The Paul”. You have a valid point. I think Renteria would be a good pickup. I see why you don’t. YOu never called me idiotic but Paul did basically call me stupid. Whatever though. Carroll, you know what you’re talking about even if I don’t always agree. I think Betemit should play too, but I do worry. I heard the same things about DeRosa and he was awful when he had to play everyday. JS and BC have to be 100% sure that Betemit can handle it.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 11:42 AM | Link to this
Robert: Let me get this stragiht, you crackheads are comparing Edgar to The Rocket and Smoltz? Enough said!!!
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 11:44 AM | Link to this
RR: it would also be nice if bloggers didn’t log in under different names, and then take somebody’s comments and completely distort them and miss the entire point. Funny how that didn’t bother you when Robert did that to me, but as soon as I said something back to him, here you come with your holier than thou rant. Go play with Riley.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this
Paul, I’m not comparing Edgar with Smoltz or the Rocket. You said that players decline after the age of 30. I am simply pointing out guys who are still strong after the age of 30 and their numbers are not what they were at 30 either. Smoltz is the best but lets keep in mind he won 20 once. Does that make him a average pitcher? Of course not. Neither can you look at a 32 yr old player and say his skillls are diminishing lets not get him. That was my point with Clemmons. He’s 43. SHould we not get him if he were available?
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this
Robert: thanks for the kind words. Unfortunatley we have a schmuck on these boards who likes to come on here and fan the flames every day….don’t pay any attention to him. But you’re right. I could be completely wrong about WB..if I am, at least it didn’t cost us $10 million and 2 top prospects…and we can always dig up another rook or trade for a vet mid-season.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this
Here we go again… there’s more than one person who doesn’t see it all Carroll’s way, so it MUST be one person blogging with multiple names.
Your paranoia is amusing. And if you’re smug enough to bring up MY work, then you’d know that my day’s done, already. Why don’t you put your pair on the block and tell the world what YOU do for a living, aside from harrassing people on this website?
I don’t recall Robert hurling insults. Disagreeing? Sure. Hard as it might be for you to believe, there ARE more than a handful of people in the world who’ll PUBLICLY disagree with your assertions. The rest of us can deal with that when it happens to us, why is it such a hang-up for you?
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this
To Robert the Drama Queen: I have said so many stuid things in my lifetime that people wouldn’t believe, I also however don’t mind getting called on the carpet for them. Why don’t you pick your panties off the floor and learn to take a freakin joke? No offense meant to women who aren’t easily as offended as Ms. Drama Robert.
Oh and just so you know, Carroll and I have said basically the same thing. I just joked around about it some and now you are being a freakin baby. So deal with it…living life with no humor is like having sex with Jessica Simpson with the lights off. It doesn’t make much sense man. Now get some type of sense of humor or don’t reply to me anymore b/c this is stupid to be talkin about this crap.
By ebineezer
December 7, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this
The Braves have the players already to replace Furcal. Put Wilson or Pete over there and keep rolling. Move Chipper to 1st. I wouldn’t trade Marte for Renteria strait up. They start steriod testing and Renteria has his worst season kinda like Sammy. Pitching help is what the Braves need. You don’t have nothing if you don’t have pitching.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this
Robert: I do think that we would have to try to get Clemmens, but not if he had 3 straight declining seasons. There are exceptions to every rule, but as a rule don’t overspend on a player over 32…which is what Edgar is might I add.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this
Ron Roberts, firt name, last name: you are the one who made a spectacle of your career on these boards…what I do is nunya. Okay I’ll cave…I own a chain of hotels…and an airline….but I hate to talk about it. I used to be with the CIA…but I really hate to talk about that. Just because your work day is over, that doesn’t mean you can’t go play with Riley, does it?
By Jman
December 7, 2005 11:58 AM | Link to this
I like Betemit too. I just dont believe he is ready for SS full-time. If you have a chance to get Renteria you have to at least look at it, but Berroa would make more sense on more than one front. And yes we still definitely need bullpen help. I hope Reitsma, Kolb, and Brower are all gone.
Sign Dotel, sign Mesa for a year.
Trade Estrada, & Thomson or Ramirez. Get a good #3 Starting Pitcher, and one more proven veteren bullpen guy. Let Mesa close but slowly introduce Devine into that role.
By chuck
December 7, 2005 12:00 PM | Link to this
TO, them’s fightin’ words.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 12:01 PM | Link to this
Very good point Eb…it goes hand in hand with mine. If the Braves do get Edgar then we need to have BALCO standing by to help him beat a test.
I have also figured out that I have gotten into the fued with Ron or Robert or whatever and Carroll. Might I add that Carroll made valid points and you only came back with hall of famers that are the exception…and some of them are on roids. Carroll was completely right about her rule and if you think about it you might see it too.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this
Paul, lets call a truce. You are right about declining stats. If a guy has had 3 declining years in a row he is not worth a truckload of money. I still think Renteria would be a good pickup and would do well under Bobby.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this
The Paul: thanks…and not to mention that the reply was just oozing with sarcasm. So RR can say “he didn’t hurl insults at you” but in reality, the sarcasm was an underhanded, indirect method of hurling insults. I know RR is not too stupid to realize that but he just dislikes me, so he never wastes a chance to jump on something I say. That’s okay though. He’s officially cut off from staying at ANY of my hotels or from traveling on my airline (unless he wants to sit on the wing).
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 12:05 PM | Link to this
Imagine that, Carroll… MORE mis-information from you.
Dude, the only reason there ARE flames to fan is because you light these fires… picking verbal fights with people who dare to not see things your way.
Also, for the record, I never ONCE mentioned my job or what I do for a living, nor where I work or whom I work with. You and your merry band of chronies (or multiple presonalities) dredged that info up from my e-mail address. So wrong, again, mr. hotel and airline magnet.
Your immaturity is only surpassed by your self-love. I mean, PRIME example… when Lew threw an accolade my way (by the way, thanks, Lew…), you HAD to log in with…
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this
Lew Hartman: I’ve been saying the same exact things that RR just said repeatedly for the last few weeks.
You know how that reads? Let me translate.
“Lew, I said that, too!!! Where are MY accolades?!?!??”
Really, man. If you’re soooo successful at whatever it is you do to earn a welf., uh I mean, paycheck, then would you NEED to raise your hand in class so teacher will see that you, too, deserve a gold star by your name?
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this
Robert…that is cool, but he has had 3 declining year in a row. Even if Bobby could help him out, I don’t want to risk Marte and 10 mil a year on it. It would not be very JS like.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this
RR: I see how it is! You think that because I’m black I must be on wellfare! I knows you dint! Everyone…RR is a raciss! You read it with your own eyes! LeTwan, I think now we know why RR is always so hateful to us! MAy God have mercy on you, RR!
By Jman
December 7, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this
The steroid allegations in this blog are amazing. I thought that were always presumed innocent until proven guilty in this fine country. Oh well. I do see the point in saying that over 30 players are passing their prime. But I dont believe that is the rule. Would I commit big time bucks and alot of years to someone 32 or 33? - No way! And The Paul you have absolutely no proof that Renteria is older than he says he is. Carroll - How can you say that because Renteria was the last out of 2 straight postseason SWEEPS that he isnt clutch? You gotta watch him play in the season. I am not just going by hit in 97. I think if we had to go into the season with Betemit at SS it would not be the end of the world. But if he struggles we’d have to make a trade.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 12:11 PM | Link to this
The Paul, Robert, I take no issue with your discussions, guys. I nod in agreement on some points and humbly disagree on others. I simply don’t see the point in some arrogant bloggers throwing around insults, calling other people idiots or calling their posts “idiotic.” That’s all.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this
Don’t listen to him you guys! He’s raciss.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 12:15 PM | Link to this
Children! Are you guys blogging from Day Care? Sure sounds like it. Man, kids these days!
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 12:16 PM | Link to this
First of all, folks, Carroll ain’t black. In fact, those who’ve blogged on here over the months will attest to the fact that he’s been called to the carpet a NUMBER of times (even by myself) for racist comments he’s made here.
Secondly, Carroll, why do you PURPOSELY mis-spell “racist?” Are you implying that, since you have to pretend to be an African-American, that you also have to pretend that you can’t spell?
You’re a racist even when you’re TRYING to pretend to be an African-American.
By brewerfaninATL
December 7, 2005 12:17 PM | Link to this
The Paul and Carroll, NO chance in getting Turnbow, not going to happen! Adam LaRoche? Why, when we have Prince Fielder waiting in the wings? I’ll give you credit Carroll for noticing that one. Like I said yesterday, if you really want a leadoff hitter, is cheap, gets on base and doesn’t strike out, and is a Bobby Cox type of player, then call us about Brady Clark and either Mike Adams or Jorge DeLaRosa for Kyle Davies or Jorge Sosa and Ryan Langerhans. Plus, there would be no money snags for both teams. Thoughts?
By chuck
December 7, 2005 12:18 PM | Link to this
Who elected Ron Blog Monitor? Who cares what people say about each other here? It’s not like we know each other or care what the other thinks.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 12:18 PM | Link to this
I personally hope Jorge Sosa isn’t tradeable, in JS eyes.
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this
Leave it to Julio to have the coolest agent around. This, from the Chicago Tribune: “Chuck Berry, the agent for 47-year-old Julio Franco, has been asking interested teams for a two-year contract. It’s not clear if Franco is going to stay with the Braves.”
Guess Julio has, “No Particular Place to Go”. (Forgive LeTwan for that one).
LeTwan hopes Chuck finds a buyer for Julio. Time for Julio and Hollandsworth to give way to younger, livelier bats. Though Letwan has great respect for Julio - the only player on the team who would advance a runner unselfishly.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this
Ron: Please quit being alittle girl on here. If I wanted drama queens I would go to a chick website or somethin.
Jman: I don’t have proof that Rentaria is older than he said he is. Imagine how much more money RF would have gotten if he shaved 2 years off like he tried to do. Imagine Julio and countless other Latin Americans that don’t have birth certificates that are real. My point is that he had a great year at 19. In fact most shortstops of any age would want that kind of year, plus there are many rumors that he has shaved 2-4 years off his actual age. If he was 29 though I still wouldn’t want to mortgage our future and 10 mil on a guy that has had 3 straight declining years.
By Derek
December 7, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this
I’m gonna post some pro-Edgar comments here. The guy was shuffled around in the lineup after Larry Walker arrived in St. Louis. Say what you will, but that is a factor in some of his decline in St. Louis. As far as Boston is concerned, I have heard reports that he was injured, but played through it.
The guy has had one down year. If I were JS, I would find out exactly how old he is, and if he is only 29, I’m almost positive he will have a resurgent year in Atlanta. If he is 33-34, then I would pass on him.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this
That’s cool, Chuck, The Paul…
Ya’ll just roll w/it, then, but if you aren’t one of his many pseudo-nyms, you, too, will have a back-handed insult hurled at ya the minute ya don’t agree with him and choose to debate such.
I just think this (and many other) blogs was rolling on just fine w/out insults. In fact, it went a LONG ride from midnight into the early morning before das furor awoke to his claimed territory here.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 12:27 PM | Link to this
I’m not completely against getting Renteria, but the down year in Boston (where half his games were in a hitter’s park), coupled with the high number of errors, and Boston’s eagerness to part with him while they get Julio Lugo in the deal has me feeling cautious. Plus, I thought the idea wasn’t to get a 2-3-4 year guy for the position after we’d lost Furcal, since we have kids coming up soon who’ll be ready to step up and play.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this
Rumors, rumors and more rumors
Baltimore Sun: “The Orioles inquired about Atlanta Braves catcher Johnny Estrada, young outfielder Ryan Langerhans and veteran starter John Thomson. However, according to one source, the Braves were focused on Ray, who is virtually untouchable at this point.”
Toronto Sun: “The Jays met with the Atlanta Braves yesterday. The Braves want Batista and want the Jays to take catcher Johnny Estrada.”
Kansas City Star: “One of the relievers (Affeldt or Macdougal) and shortstop Angel Berroa going to Atlanta for one of the Braves’ young corner outfielders — either Kelly Johnson or Ryan Langerhans — and another top prospect.”
Chicago Tribune is reporting that Julio’s agent wants 2 years for Julio not 1. He’s 47!!!
These agents are ridiculous!
By chuck
December 7, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this
That’s fine Ron, if he hurls an insult at 95mph, sign him up. If not, think duck’s back/water.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 12:30 PM | Link to this
I guess, in the end, what I’d rather see the Braves do with Tampa, is raid their pen and get Baez for a Kyle Davies-esque trade piece. Again, to heck with worrying about position players at this rate; I think we’re actually okay there, with capable young and inexpensive backups like Kelly Johnson and Pete Orr and two capable catchers with a good starting five. Fix what killed us last year - The Bullpen!
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this
LOL, chuck! It’s good that some people…most people…hell, all but one, don’t take themselves so damned-all seriously up on here.
And for the record, he was the one who started searching up everyone’s profile and telling everyone this guys a girl, that guys 43 years old, etc,etc, ad nauseum. I just thought he could use a little of his own medicine. I can’t help the fact that he doesn’t like black people. I have prayed for him, but it hasn’t helped.
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this
LeTwan wants no part of the fight that is going on … but LeTwan would like to know what an “airline magnet” is. Smile.
By Hayes
December 7, 2005 12:37 PM | Link to this
I second the “great article” comments. Also, I’m curious as well what became of Kolb.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 12:37 PM | Link to this
LT: I guess it’s the magnet you’d have to glue to his a* if he wanted to ride on the wing of one of my planes.
By Ceepster
December 7, 2005 12:38 PM | Link to this
I like Ron Roberts proposed line-up. And I seriously agree that the money saved by using that line-up should be used for pitching. A question…Where is the Dontrelle talk coming from? Is that a “true” rumor or a “wishful thinking” rumor? It would be great to have him in the rotation.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 12:40 PM | Link to this
Carroll,
My best friend Sonya, an African-American female living in D.C. will be shocked to hear I don’t like black people. As will the kids and parents of the kids on my youth inncer city tee-ball team I volunteer-coach for every spring. Come to think of it, so will the friends I work with at our urban station, too. Ya wanna dig and do some homework? Be more thorough.
The only time I ever ‘know’ things about people here is when they volunteer the info or slip up and forget to change their email info when they’ve gone to using another ‘fake name.’ I mean, please, who tried to pretend just now that they were an african-american, even stooping as low as to mis-spelling ‘racist’ (why, because you think the rest of think black folks can’t spell, Carroll? how outdated your thinking is…) to try and make the point?
Jman, those rumors ARE interesting, aren’t they? I’m okay with the KC trade, personally. Berroa’s got pop in his bat, and that’s good for further down the lineup, but he’s no lead-off man. But the trade gives up something we have a surplus of (outfielders) for one thing we DEFINITELY need (a closer) and one thing we could use depth at (shortstop).
By chuck
December 7, 2005 12:40 PM | Link to this
Call me crazy, but I kind of like LaRoche. 20HR and 78 rbi for first base is a little low, but when you look at the platoon numbers of 29 HR 120 RBI, that’s actually up there with most teams. Better than a lot. I think if they can get his avg. up against lefties, he’ll be just fine. I’m not overly impressed with Estrada. I thought that was a bad trade to begin with. I think we ought to bring Millwood back, go with McCann behind the plate and try to get some relief pitching for Estrada.
By chuck
December 7, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this
Plus, LaRoche is just going to get better. He had a little bit of a sophomore slump in average, but his power numbers were up. I think he’s worth holding on to. I’d rather trade Marte since there is nowhere for him to play.
By Lew Hartman
December 7, 2005 12:44 PM | Link to this
People, get a grip. Most of your viewpoints are valid. This should be about topics, not personalities. If I thought that praise from me was something worthwhile I would have printed certificates. Just so there’s no doubt about who I am-I’m 54,fat, and ain’t all that good lookin.I paint portraits for a living and you will find me by the fence at the spring training batting cages in Orlando. Hope to see you all there.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this
A few thoughts…
If the Marlins are dangling Willis out as trade bait, they’re going TOO far in dismantling that team. I, for one, wouldn’t buy into it. He’s still not expensive for them, so he’s not a big salary liability yet, and if they’re going to get a stadium in Miami, or find a new home with an excitable fan base elsewhere (I’m hearing San Antonio’s in the mix), then they need a face to the franchise.
I, too, think LaRoche has done fairly decent in a platoon role, and also like the numbers the Braves have gotten at 1B the past two seasons. I’d like to see him have a shot at the position full-time, myself, to see what he can do over a full season.
I mis-spelled “magnate.” I didn’t, however, do it, pretending to be of another ethnicity.
LeTwan, your timing is impeccable. You always seem to appear right when Carroll needs an ally. Good to see you’re around, though. The food talk is amusing and refreshing. I dunno if I’m talking to a real person, or a personality trapped in that eery mind of Carroll’s.. but if you’re real, you’re an amusing change of pace, for the most part. If you’re just Carroll playing “pretend,” …well, you’re still an amusing change of pace, and you should overtake the rest of his personas and keep the civility here at a more pleasant level.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 12:52 PM | Link to this
Ha ha! Lew, your presence is a welcome ray of sun, too, man. Good post, man!
By Jman
December 7, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this
I have been very unhappy with LaRoche, but this year is his make or break year. Quit the platooning. Let Franco take his nursing home elsewhere. Get a good reliable backup for LaRoche. Let LaRoche play regularly. If he is consistent then we’ve got ourselves a good 1B. LaRoche has potential. But if he doesnt work out then you move him out.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this
Millwood is to expensive, just like he was when he left the first time. Kind of strange he only has good years when his contract is coming up.
I think the braves would be wise to make the move with KC. We would then have a closer and 2 shortstops. We could also take WB and trade him away. He is just a stop gap until one of the 2 young shortstops get ready anyways.
I also don’t mind us getting Batista, but I wouldn’t give up to much for him. With BJ Ryan signing with the Jays they just need some value.
Anytrade getting rid of La Crotch or Thompson I am for. These are 2 highly overrated players, hence the fact no teams are even acquiring about La Crotch. The closer May from Baltimore would be one of the best moves to make. This guy has Rivera type stuff and a young outfielder, Marte, and Thompson would be a steal to get him. THen we can use some cash and other prospects to get a good young pitcher. Any chance to get Dontrelle should also be looked into.
Dontrelle is available by the way because the Marlins are in another fire sale. They are trading off all good players and said the Cabrera and D-Train are also available, but don’t expect it to be cheap.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this
I AGREE, Jman!
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this
Go ahead RR, criticize me because I won’t conform to your way of spelling. You leave me and my culture alone.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this
Jman: I agree with the La Crotch assessment. I think we can get an adequate replacement at the deadline next year if and when he cracks. But our team should be in position to be a world series favorite in 2 years, and we need to find out if Crotchy is gonna be here or not. Giving him a shot for 2/3 of the year isn’t to damaging, as long as that is all it is.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this
Chuckles and shakes head marveling at the silliness.
Paul, I think you’re of the same mind Jman and I (and others, I’m sure) are… give LaRoche a shot to see if, in year three, he’s ready to BE a championship-caliber full-time first baseman or not, and if not, shop him out.
If memory serves, when we brought him up, his minor league numbers weren’t overwhelming to begin with, but his upside potential was all the talk within the organization. If that’s true, then he’s probably exceded their expectations, believe it or not.
Anyhow, for a platoon guy, 20 HRs and 78 RBI isn’t bad at all. Give him the full season and see if he hits 30 HRs and approaches 90-100 RBI. If you average it out, I’d think it happens. Again, it’s a position we can live with what we have. The focus should be on the ‘pen. That’s all. Nothing else til the ‘pen.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this
Good news! Gammons reports that the renteria deal is dead. Tampa wants too much….Marte+++
Bad news: phillies on the verge of trading Abreu to LA for Penny and Lowe. Wow!
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 01:14 PM | Link to this
I agree with you, but I don’t believe Crotchy is the answer. The bullpen has to be the biggest and main focal point. Our position players are set, but WB and La Crotch isn’t the long term answer.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this
You may be right, Paul, but we’ll not know til we throw ‘em out there to see, I guess.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 01:18 PM | Link to this
Carroll: I heard it was Penny or Lowe. Good news is unless it is both of them the Phillies are getting shafted.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this
I think either way the Phillies look like they’re going for more (not necessarily better) pitching and less offense.
If I were a Phillies’ fan, I wouldn’t like the move, with one or both pitchers.
By Jon
December 7, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this
SHUT UP ALREADY! I’ve read this nonsense long enough…Bobby Cox holding the Braves back??? Are you kidding me??? Carol you obviously have NO CLUE whatsoever about the Braves, so keep your stupid..ignorant opinions to yourself. You want to bash Renteria on ONE YEAR!!! Well lets bash Chipper then since we are in the business of giving up on a guy after one year. What has Chipper done the past 4 years for the Braves???? Yes he moved to a different position, but hasn’t produced with numbers we need for the money we’re paying him. Give me a break!!!!
By Jman
December 7, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this
30 HRs and 90+ RBI, Avg. in the .270 range from LaRoche would be wonderful! It’s not impossible, but I dont know if it’s likely either.
I would bet that the Berroa deal is what JS will go for. I like that deal. I also like the Toronto deal for Batista, especially if O. Hudson is in the deal. He can play.
By drd
December 7, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this
Ross is a moron
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this
Jon: I’m fine with getting rid of Chipper but it’s not gonna happen.
By Lew Hartman
December 7, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this
Before you put down LaRoche and his power numbers,remember we could have Robert Fick again. I think LaRoche should get a chance at full time this year, but his grace period may be running out. I still can’t understand the lack of love fore Wilson Betemit, though. The only rap against him is that people thought he should have hit the bigs as soon as he was proclaimed our best prospect. He had substantial playing time last year and played VERY GOOD. His defense is not as spectacular as Furcal, but he is steady. He did hit over .300 with some power. He is cheap and again I scream SPEND THE MONEY ON PITCHING. Trade a good bit and try to get Dontrelle, then lock him up for several years. Then find a closer. This would prove much more beneficial in the long run. If you sign Rentaria or a one year fill in, we’ll be right back where we started in a year or two. Pitching is the proven way to win. If you want a one year rental, rent Zito and try to get a decent closer. Baez (sp?) might be a good one. I’ve been in the Tropicana Dome and I think I could hit one out. If he was successful there, Turner Field would be no problem.
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this
Wow… I take a 24 hour break from the blog, and return to a sea of paranoia and sensitivity. So as not to offend anyone with my opinions, I’ll make avery effort to be as PC as possible.
First, I really don’t like the idea of bringing in Renteria as SS-American. As I’ve stated many times, SS-American is nowhere near as important a priority as closer-American. Unless Boston, USA is willing to pay a sizeable portion of ER’s salary, JS should run far away and spend that money more wisely for bullpen-Americans. I’d sooner take Lugo for one year than ER for three, but I’ll settle for WB.
Secondly, JS’s attempts to acquire May from Baltimore, USA is evidence that he hasn’t forgotten how to make smart deals for player-Americans with their prime years ahead of them.
All this being said, I’m no GM-American and don’t pretend to know half as much as those who are. I’ll trust JS to capably address the needs at SS-American, closer-American and leadoff-American.
For the record, I’m an American-American with a wife-American and 2 children-Americans… I’m 5’10”, 200 lbs. (ding)and reflect more light than some of my more darkly complected brother-Americans. I did have curly hair before it began to thin, and I’m told I have Cajun-American blood. Is any more info required?
By Jman
December 7, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this
Anyone who says that Bobby Cox is holding this team back has no clue what they’re talking about. Bobby and JS are the reason we have had so much success.
Chipper Jones is the face of the Atlanta Braves! Chipper and Smoltzie are the glue that holds this team together.
By Kevin
December 7, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this
Renteria deal is dead because of Rays want to much per ESPN
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this
LeTwan is not Carroll. LeTwan owns no airline. LeTwan just likes baseball. Really likes baseball. LeTwan is refreshed that RR is amused. Makes LeTwan feel a little like Jimmy Carter, in a way, right now. LeTwan would not call himself an ally of Carroll - but Carroll has been nicer to LeTwan than RR in times past. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could all get along? Then RR and Carroll could talk baseball instead of hatred and LeTwan could talk baseball and the occasional pie. Just thinking out loud - and hoping we don’t give away the young players every team in both leagues would like to have. If we do, better get to the WS this time.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this
Nobody should be fine with getting rid of Chipper. The guy IS the franchise. He is unselfish. He moved to the outfield, moved back to third, then gave back money that he didn’t have to so the team could get better. Any of you who turn your back on him are no worse than when the Braves turned their back on Dale Murphy. If they trade Chipper, who might I add has a no trade clause so don’t worry, I will be foreced to turn my allegiance to another team.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this
Voice,
That’s funny-American stuff, man!
By pt
December 7, 2005 01:36 PM | Link to this
I say let’s dump Chipper and keep Marte. Chipper is hurt a lot, and he definitely can’t play hurt. Marte has a very bright future, whereas Chipper is on the downhill slid. It would definitely free up a lot of cash to make more deals.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 01:37 PM | Link to this
Notice everyone how RR didn’t say a word about Jon callin people stupid, or Jman saying that people have no clue. I personally have no problem with them saying that. But it’s just that rr wasted no time jumping all over me, but has nothing to say about that. Just further proof that he hates black people.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this
And I didn’t even criticize someone for their opinion/suggestion earlier…I simply responded to someone who was essentially trying to make my ideas look stupid. But I am wrong for that according to RR.
By Kevin
December 7, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this
Most of the deals will be made after today, so teams will not lose draft picks.Fox sports is reporting that Braves contacted Nomar to serve as LF and backup at 3rd and short. Hey sign him to an incentive laden deal and leave WB at short. I do not like that but it is a 1 year solution, he can lead off. Marte can be a backup or traded for a closer. Gammons also is reporting that people like Reitsma will be possibly harder to move because he will be a free agent next year and the price of middle relievers is going out of sight. I really think Lidge could be had because who would Hosuton rather have him or Clemmens plus Roger will raise their payroll to over $100 million.
By Rob D
December 7, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this
Breaking News:
The Braves have traded catcher Johnny Estrada to the Diamondbacks for right-handed relievers Lance Cormier and Oscar Villarreal, FOXSports.com has learned.
The deal gives the Braves additional bullpen depth at a time when they are trying to replace closer Kyle Farnsworth, who signed a free-agent contract with the Yankees. The move also means the Diamondbacks will no longer be pursuing any of the free-agent catchers on the market.
By p.dukes
December 7, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this
estrada got traded to the diamond backs for 2 young relievers with 5-plus era’s.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this
Bellows and laughs
Carroll, you reap what you sow. So you’re right, I had no such issues with anybody throwing such mean-spirited terms back at you.
And really, quit trying to convince people you’re black, dude. You could spell ‘racist’ before you tried this little charade, and now you can’t? C’mon.
Meanwhile, back to baseball talk and away from the psychosis that is Carroll…
By Eric
December 7, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this
If you guys would stop arguing maybe you would have seen that the Braves Traded Johnny Estrada to the Diamondbacks 30 minutes ago for Lance Cormier and Oscar Villarreal. See the link below
msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5147106
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this
I am truly a CJ fan. I love his dedication to the franchise, I love his willingness to give the payroll some wiggle room, heck, I love his propensity toward Hooters. But, if he really wanted to do what is best for the Braves, he’ll pick up that 1B mitt and start oiling it up. (And, no, RR. That’s NOT a euphemism…)
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this
I know I will get ridiculed for this but I would hate to see Chipper ever leave. He is the face of the team. A lot of you guys want him gone. I’m sure there a lot of teams that would love to have his services and some of those teams would also be beating us in the playoffs. The Giants would love to have him. Chipper batting 3rd, Bonds 4th and Alou 5th. All I will say is be careful what you wish for.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 01:45 PM | Link to this
I’m underwhelmed by these two guys, statistically.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this
I’ve never even heard of them.
By Brain
December 7, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this
Hey, this is my first post, but I just read on Fox Sports that the Braves traded Estrada for Cormier and Villarreal. Just thought the update might be welcomed.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this
lance cormier…is he rheal’s brother?
RR: thanks but I don’t sew and I don’t live on a farm so I can’t reap. I don’t care what they say. But they were saying it to more than just me, fyi…so i guess you don’t care about anyone else that they insulted either. Typical of you…raciss.
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this
For Oscar Villarreal’s profile, click here.
For Lance Cormier’s profile, click here.
By Ga_Tech_92
December 7, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this
Who cares? Baseball is, over time, about who spends the most money. The Braves are falling farther and farther down the list of “highest payroll”. No, the highest payroll doesn’t guarantee a WS each individual year, but over time it does. Is it my imagination of have the Yankees almost always out spent every other team? Is it my imagination that the Yankees have a 25% chance each year to win the WS? That’s unheard of. Baseball is about spending money, wisely…but no amount of under spending…or letting go great prospects…or “can’t afford to keep this free agent”…no amount of that crap we’ve seen more and more of since AOL/TimeWarner is going to “Push this team up to the next notch of WS champs again”.
Bring Ted back.
Baseball is only fun if your playing…or if you don’t care about wins/losses…or if you enjoy being the underdog consistently (payroll).
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this
How do we get these clowns? I mean get somebody else to close please.
By josh
December 7, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this
The Braves are the best at finding workarounds. They are also the best at not getting past the first round. Solutions that win us the division are great, but I think its time we demand solutions that will get us back to the world series.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this
Carroll, all of a sudden you can’t spell, anymore?
It’s S-O-W and R-A-C-I-S-T. You pay so much attention to what other folks say, enough to barrage anybody who disagrees with you with your insults, and yet you can’t notice when you’re (obviously faking to) misspelling a word and see when it’s correctly spelled?
Give up on the “I’m a black guy” act, dude. This is your lowest moment. I’d believe you if I hadn’t read, for myself, and admonished you for it, your prior racist comments here.
BACK TO BASEBALL…
I’ve read all that ESPN.com, SI.com and yahoo.com has to say about these guys, and it isn’t much.
Just big, gaudy ERAs. WTF?
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 01:58 PM | Link to this
Raisins, the term “Oiling it up” may get this blog shut down. Mama uses canola oil now for the pies and LeTwan is feeling healthier already. The two new pitchers are 24 and 25 years old and aren’t established stars. We have some of those already. McCann fans can rest easy. Who backs him up next year? Will they get a vet for Bobby? Bet it won’t be a kid. Chipper at first has sounded right from the get-go. He says he won’t go. Aaron did. Murph did(and it was ugly). Horner did. I remember the ugly 1B Klesko gave us in the playoffs. Not anxious to see that again. We may just find we need another bat in the lineup. If that happens, then maybe we’ll see Chipper oil it up.
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this
Interesting about Villarreal… In 2003, he pitched 98 innings with 80 K’s and a 2.57 ERA. His innings pitched in 2004 & 2005 were, however, 18 and 13.2 respectively. What’s his story?
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this
Maybe someone forgot to remind JS that Leo is gone. Miracles probably won’t be as likely as it was with Sosa last year. God help us all.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this
Villarreal had a good year in ‘03 out of the pen.
86 games - 98 innings - 2.57 ERA - 80 K’s - .222 Opp. B.A.
The last 2 years he’s only played in 28 Games combined. Give him a shot.
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this
LaTwan, you are the best. I sure hope these kids are worth the trade because Estrada is a good catcher and has some value.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this
Atleast it looks like Clemmens won’t be back…yippy!
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this
As LT said, why obtain more young middle relievers when we have those already? I believe the answer is clear, JS simply isn’t finished. Some of these young relievers, either the new ones or current ones, will be leaving in other deal(s).
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this
Well this just sucks. The only silver lining…I pirty much said the exact same thing last year when we traded for Sosa.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this
My bad Voice of Reason. Sorry for posting the same thing you did.
By SouthernJackassradiopersonalitygonehaywire
December 7, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this
I see that retarded twirp is back…rr
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this
And for those who believe Leo is the sole reason behind the Braves’ pitching success over the years, you don’t hear that from the pitchers, current or past.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this
Oh no. We are definitely not finished yet. I agree that one of the young’uns is going to be moved now. McBride, Davies, Boyer, Devine? Neither of these guys we got for Estrada are veterens. Something is up. Something is definitely up…or at least it better be.
By Biff
December 7, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this
Villareal was awesome his rookie year: 2.57 era, 80K’s in 86 innings, and from what I hear has been injured the last two years. Assuming he’s healthy, might be a STRONG 24-year-old arm.
Estrada was going sooner or later anyway, and the salaries work out to our advantage. I think it’s a great “minor” deal. Looking forward to seeing what’s next.
BTW, who’s the backup catcher next year? Is Eddie coming back, or do we promote another youngster?
By Jman
December 7, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this
Do they bring up Salty? Is he ready?
They probably go with Brayan Pena. He actually started swinging a decent bat the last month of the season.
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this
As for a backup catcher, BC loves a grizzled vet behind his young catchers ala O’Brien, Bako, etc. JS will pick up somebody cheap off the scrap heap to catch one day out of five… Has Pratt signed anywhere yet?
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this
Why not bring in another kid? We supposedly have some good ones down there. Eddie also is fine if he can stay healthy.
By Jim
December 7, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this
Oscar V. strained his right rotator cuff on 4/11/5 and was not activated until 9/2/5. His win on 9/11/5 was his first since ‘03.
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this
There y’all go stereotyping. LeTwan won a spelling bee once. Dusted a kid named, “Palmer” with the word “efficacious”. Palmer couldn’t spell efficacious and didn’t think LeTwan could either. Palmer was wrong. He is working in radio now (really) and LeTwan is here blogging with you. Proabably as many people have heard of Palmer as have heard of Cormier and Villarreal. Has Estrada’s value gone down so much? LeTwan wants to know who is gonna’ close?
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this
Good question, LaTwan.
By vik
December 7, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this
I know what we gotta do!!
Trade betemit,sosa,FRANCOEUR, Thompson, langerhans and Davies
for:
Carl Crawford, Scot Kazmir, Lugo and Baez
I know if we made this move, we would win at least 3 more straight div. titles.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this
I see the best part of a white trash trailer dweller’s ooze off his mother’s inner thigh has returned….SouthernJackass.
By Rush Franken
December 7, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this
I wish the Hawks management ran the Braves. We’d have 7 catchers on the opening day roster!!!
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this
BTW, “Proabably” is not mis-spelled in the above post. It’s an ancient variation we sometimes use to confuse folks. Estrada was an All-Star, right? What’s happening?
By Jman
December 7, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this
Are we gonna hear from O’ Brien today?
I dont care what Bradley has to say. I havent liked him since the John Rocker days.
By Biff
December 7, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the update, Jim. I just assume that the Braves front office has, or will, check his health before finalizing the deal.
I read some reports that Saltamachia (or whatever) was doing some good things in winter ball, but he’s very young. I bet your right, the Paul, they’ll probably grooom Pena … another trade opportunity in a year or two when we have three quality young catchers. I think I read Eddie was planning to retire, but I’m not sure. If they don’t bring Pena up, Pratt would be a great backup.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 02:23 PM | Link to this
Rush … now THAT’S funny!
LeTwan, that’s what insults me the most about Carroll all of a sudden deciding he wants to pretend to be an african-american, then PURPOSELY mis-spelling words to what, bolster his act? It IS insulting.
By JohnBonRocker
December 7, 2005 02:23 PM | Link to this
Time to close this Beeeyatch down…
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this
Jman, why haven’t you liked Bradley since the Rocker days?
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this
Advantage, Erstad.
By Matt
December 7, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this
Just visited the ESPN Insider sight. According to them, the three-way deal for Renteria is “dead” because TB wanted more than Andy Marte (my guess is they really wanted McCann, since the Braves traded Estrada, that ain’t gonna happen) I think Renteria would be OK in Atlanta. Does that really solve the lead off problem? dont we allready have a servicable shortstop in Betemit? Who are these two guys we got for Estrada? Any chance in the Braves having anything resembling a closer next year? Argh! so many questions!
By Jman
December 7, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this
Okay Vic, what are you smoking?
By vik
December 7, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this
what does that mean ron? seriously i dont get it
By OUTLAWED
December 7, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this
Good news one of the LOAFERS gone.Now we need some one to take LaRoach.
By SouthernJackassradiopersonalitygonehaywire
December 7, 2005 02:28 PM | Link to this
looks like ronnie roberts has once again attacked me for no reason…
By Biff
December 7, 2005 02:30 PM | Link to this
Letwan, I want to ask you to spell something, but that’s hard to do online… if I write the word out, you’ll have an unfair advantage, it seems.
I like the trade… am trusting that the Braves f/o like these guys’ stuff. Don’t know just how much more we could’ve expected for Johnny.
My only concern about the Renteria rumor (I like him a lot!) is that it would eat up payroll dollars that need to go to a closer. But, I’m excited to hear that we’re wheeling and dealing. If we can get Boston to chip in a few buck for Renteria, and then pursue a closer, I think our offseason efforts will have been efficacious indeed!
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 02:30 PM | Link to this
I gotta tell you guys, I’m not hating it. Let’s face it…we need solid midd relief as much as we need a closer. If this villareal returns to 03 form he could be very good! Cormier looks solid for a mid reliever. As long as I don’t have to see Brower, Kolb and Foster warming up EVER again, I’ll be happy…throw Reeksma in that group and I’ll be ecstatic! And let’s face it, Estrada was a mere shell of his former self. Erstad did more than break bones…he seemed to have broken Johnny’s spirit.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this
He wrote an article that really ticked me off. I dont remember what it was, but it was about Rocker. I emailed him and told him how crazy he was though. Really ticked me off.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this
Man, ya’ll have been hard on Estrada since he had his teeth re-arranged by Darrin Erstad. He was never the same after that collision, but all in all, he did a good job while in Atlanta.
That being said, I don’t know that we got fair market value for him, with these guys.
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this
In another AJC story, the cafe is open at the new aquarium.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this
I figured we could have gotten more out of Estrada as well.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this
By SouthernJackassradiopersonalitygonehaywire
December 7, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this
I see that retarded twirp is back…rr
No reason, Southern?
By Jim
December 7, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this
Glad to hear deal for Edgar R. is “dead.” See my earlier comment.
Estrada deal gives Braves at least 9 relief pitchers: Villarreal, Cormier, McBride, Devine, Reitsma, Boyer, Brower, Foster, and yes, Dan Kolb, who is still on 40-man roster (can’t cost much to bring to Spring training if no one wants him).
McCann, the native Atlantan, stays, but who is back-up if Pena not ready - only hit .179 in 39 ABs last year?
Trade bait left: Marte, LaRoche (how good is Thurman?), assorted pitchers.
Target: lead-off hitter.
Are there any legs to Berroa (KC) interest(Since Renteria and Lugo seem kaput)?
Or, alternatively, where’s Nomar - as the tandem for Betemit? Nomar plays against LHP, WB against RHP, and we buy both of them a 1B glove to compare with Chipper’s. If LHP, Nomar at SS, CJ at 3B and WB at 1B (might as well only teach one guy a new postion). We’d need a lete inning defensive SS.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this
Vik, although people don’t like it when I say ideas are stupid, I would have to say yours fits the bill. You can’t give up Francoeur b/c he is the new face of the franchise. Chipper said he is the guy that the torch will be passed to. 3 young guys that are untouchable are JF and the Joneses. Hudson prolly is too, but not like those guys.
By Biff
December 7, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this
To those questioning whether we got adequate value for Johnny, obviously I don’t know how well he’s recovered from his injuries, or how much potential the guys we got have. But keep in mind that 1. Every GM in baseball knows that we’re logjammed at catcher, so had an advantage in the deal; and 2. I can’t recall many times when JS got ‘taken’ in a deal.
But of course, we’ll see.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this
Jim interesting you should ask. I just read this from Ken Roesenthal:
The Braves are scheduled to meet Wednesday with the representatives for Nomar Garciaparra, who is drawing significant interest from nearly a dozen clubs, including the Yankees, Orioles, Blue Jays, Padres, Dodgers and Indians. Garciaparra could play left field for the Braves and serve as a backup at shortstop and third base.
He said they also talked to the Tigers about a WB for outfilder Craig Monroe, and talked to the Indians about Coco Crisp (sounds delicious!).
By SouthernJackassradiopersonalitygonehaywire
December 7, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this
Well the Braves are now meeting with Garcciaparra’s people—no dice on getting Adam Everett or Coco Crisp—Rentaplaerria is probably not going to happen either—and Mr. Roberts, it’s your ignorance and paranoia that made you assume I was talking about you—however in the near future I will be kicking your a*—so keep on sowin’ strife…
By Jman
December 7, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this
Good point Biff. Estrada was still reeling from that tackle by Erstad.
The only really questionable trade in my opinion that JS has ever made was the Justice deal. I think we screwed on that one. I can handle the Kolb deal, Cappallan only had the fastball that didnt move. Kolb has a fast ball and curve ball neither of which were fast or move. So that one was fair I guess.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this
Southern: thank GAWD we didn’t trade for Adam Everett! That guy might as well not even take a bat with him when he steps up to the plate!
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this
I heard the Cocoa Crisp deal is dead..but lets hope not. WIth Monroe or Crisp in center that would give us Johnson and Marte to package together for a nice closer. Keep Langy b/c he can play all 3 positions and give him more time to develope. Put Nomar as a utility and let him work alot in spring at first so we might not have to trade for a mid season replacement for La Crotch.
By Todd
December 7, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this
Great article. I am a huge Braves fan, since Horner, Murphy, and Hubbard. I was really upset to hear that Furcal was not coming back. He may not have had the best year at the plate, but he has a cannon for an arm. I wish Atlanta could have kept him. But I do think that Renteria will make an excellent short stop for Atlanta, as well as a leadoff man. Even though the Braves have lost some good players and big names….get ready for another division title.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this
I like Everette. He is just young and learning. He would be a definite upgrade with alot more upside than any other option. With that said I’m glad it didn’t happen b/c we should be focused on a closer for crying out loud.
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 02:52 PM | Link to this
Hey Biff, LeTwan acknowledges your cleverness. Not only did you spell efficacious correctly, you used it in proper context. Context is often a problem on this blog, but you have noticed that, for sure. In the words of a renowned AJC columnist, it will behoove us to wait and see what happens. LeTwan thinks there are a lot of teams that need catchers and ours was an All-Star in 2004. Did we get full value? LeTwan does not favor getting rid of Marte. Chipper may have a no-cut contract but he does not have a no-cut body. If Marte is the best prospect at the position in the majors, why would they give him up? If they do, it better be for someone very, very special.
By Biff
December 7, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this
Jman, the thing about Justice is that he was a terrible outfielder who NEVER hit a cutoff man, during a time when the Braves were SERIOUS about pitching and defense, and he was a PITA in the clubhouse and with the media. He’s sort of a legend here, kind of like ‘Nique with the Hawks, where fans want to call us cursed for having dealt a key player.
Anyway, G Dye was another good player we let get away, and Wainright may turn out to be good. Sure there are others. I guess my point is just that until proven otherwise, I’ll give JS and Co. the benefit of the doubt on trades like this. For every real player we let get away, we seem to develop two.
By Scott
December 7, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this
Chuck,
Getting Juan Pierre would be AWFUL. The guy doesn’t walk and has an OBP of .326. Not exactly what you look for in a lead off hitter.
As for your comments about the Hawks, since when is Atlanta not a large city? The problem is, no one cares about the Hawks or the NBA and rightfully so.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this
Why would we trade Betemit for an OF without any assurance that we are going to get a SS. Something has got to be going on.
By vik
December 7, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this
Kazmir will have a better ML career than francoeur. seriously. he’s like a young clemens, but skinnier. also, hes a lefty. also, hes only 21. also, are my also’s annoying.
also, here’s a little something:
why was the blonde really happy after finishing her jigsaw puzzle in 6 months?
the box said 2-4 years.
ha ha
By Biff
December 7, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this
Letwan, I do agree about Marte (kinda forgot about that). Actually, I kinda hope it’s true that the Renteria deal is dead, and that we’ll find a way to address concerns without giving up Andy.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this
Monroe’s numbers are pretty good. He had 10 OF assists last year. 6 from LF.
Agreeed the Jermaine Dye for Tucker and Lockhart deal was, in hindsight, not the greatest deal JS ever made either.
In the Justice deal Lofton was awful inin his only year here. He didnt want to come to Atlanta and I honestly think he didnt even try. He just wanted out. Justice was for the most part a fan favorite. Injury prone but he was a favorite.
By SpecialEd
December 7, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this
Juan Pierre to the Cubs!
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this
Carroll, if we could get Cocoa Crisp that would be a steal. He would with out a doubt solve our problem at leadoff. He is fast and has a good bat and he still relatively young so he has some upside. However, I can’t see why the Indians would part ways with him.
By Letwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this
LeTwan read Vik’s story and now has an uncontrollable urge to post a Chipper story. This one is for Robert.
A young ventriloquist touring the clubs is doing a show in a small bar close to Turner Field. With his dummy on his knee, the goes through his usual dumb ballplayer jokes when Chipper gets to his feet and shouts: “I’ve heard enough of your stupid jokes! What makes you think you can stereotype ballplayers that way? What does a person’s occupation have to do with his worth as a human being? It’s guys like you who keep players like me from being respected in the community, and from reaching our full potential as a person because you and your kind continue to perpetuate discrimination against, not only baseball players but athletes in general .. and all in the name of humor”.
Quite taken aback, the embarrassed ventriloquist begins to apologize but Chipper yells again, “You stay out of this, mister! I’m talking to that little ba$trrd on your knee!!!”
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this
Bad news…the Mets just announced all of their efforts are now going to be focused on Zito. Let us all pray that doesn’t happen.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this
Vik must have forgot to take his ritalin.
By Ron Roberts
December 7, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this
Well it’s stale joke time.
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 03:10 PM | Link to this
Crispy? Don’t think it will work.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this
Well forget Monroe. He’ll be 29 this year. He dont have anything left. We all know you start declining at 28. Right Carroll, and The Paul?
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this
Now, that was funny, LaTwan.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this
Just read on cbs.sportsline.com that the Braves are “potential suitors” for Javier Vazquez. Trade Targets
Doubt it very seriously, unless the D-Backs pay most of his enormous salary.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this
Right, Jman. But as long as we don’t have to give up too much $$$ or prospects to get him, it would be okay.
The Paul, I just read that Minaya had inquired about Zito and was told that he would not be moved. After the Burnett deal, it seems as though he Zito will be looking for an inordinant amount of $$$ and years. We don’t want him, and if the Mets get him, I think that’s good for us. The only way this could get any better for us is if the Mets get Sam Sosa to play RF….for real…they’re trying to do it!
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this
You never told us if you have your own bobblehead.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 03:18 PM | Link to this
Justice, much like Ron Gant, had good careers in the ATL. They didn’t fair so good after that though. JS knows when to get rid of people and when not to. The reason Chipper is staying is b/c he is a likeable guy for the fans and in the clubhouse. Plus get this he actually knows how to play defense, unlike Justice. Chipper strikes fear in pitchers while Justice didn’t. Plus Chipper isn’t a pre-madonna who whines alot…and in case you didn’t know Justice was. It isn’t a coincidence JS trades people or lets them go at the right time, when their value is higher than they are worth. Case and point Avery, Gant, Justice, Burkette, Glavine, Neagle, Maddux, etc…
Now you can say what about Dye and Jason Smidt. Well Jason had 2 good years one in Pit and one in San Fran. Dye has been a slightly above average at best outfielder, even though he did step it up in the World Series. Both of whom if you recall had some injury problems that clouded their productivity.
JS takes small risks when needed thus 14 and now 15 straight.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this
Latest rumor: Gily, Sosa, WB and KJ to the Rangers for Soriano, Young and Mench.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this
Jman: if you have 3 straight bad years at an age of over 30 then don’t get him…aka Rentaria. And now that the deal is dead I suppose I was right and you were wrong smuck.
By Biff
December 7, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this
Hey, the Paul, you’re preaching to the choir. I agree completely.
Braves do NOT need Zito, unless they trade Davies and/or Thompson. Keep your eye on the ball, guys. And “the ball” ain’t starting pitching.
I hope the Mets do sign Zito, and Manny, and maybe offer Clemens $25 mil to play another year. Will just make kicking their butts all the more satisfying.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this
Carroll: If that’s the rumor then the Braves should jump on it like never before. That would be awesome!!!
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this
In the rumor I mentioned with the rangers, it seems they are trying to both acquire pitching (i.e. getting sosa), and making room for ManRam.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this
Where did that come from? I’ll take that right now!!! Just show me where to sign!
Where did you hear that?
By Jman
December 7, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this
The Paul:
I believe the correct spelling is Shmuck.
That’s okay though.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 03:31 PM | Link to this
Carroll: I doubt that the payroll would be right if that happened, unless we spin Soriano for a bigtime closer.
Biff: I agree that beating the big spenders will be great, but if they add Manny, Zito, and Clemmens, then I will be shakin in my boots to much. Like I have said we can’t sell the farm for one year with Zito. WE just need to compete next year. The year after with our youngsters with some time under their belts and new SS and hopefully 1 or 2 good pitchers we will make our run. Smoltz will still be around too and he is the pitching staff.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 03:31 PM | Link to this
Why does it ALWAYs seem that the Braves were just this close to making that big deal….they always come up a player or a few dollars short to make it happen. I understand not wanting to mortgage the future, but at what point does the future become nigh?
By Robert (Justice is the best)
December 7, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this
If the rumor is true, then that deal needs to be made quickly.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 03:34 PM | Link to this
What is your source on that rumor Carroll?
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this
I heard it on the XM radio. They are usually pretty reliable…they broke the casey to the pirates trade hours before anyone else yesterday.
By Jman
December 7, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this
I like Gily but I’ll take that trade any day!
By Jman
December 7, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this
Mlb.com says the Braves are still trying to work out a deal with the BoSox for Renteria without the D-Rays. The deal is said to still contain Marte.
Day 3 rumors
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this
Sh*t…now they’re talking about Lugey again on Baseball Tonight, with the possibility that once we get him, we spin him off for renteria.
By Penn
December 7, 2005 03:47 PM | Link to this
Here is the best suggestion I’ve seen here today.
“One thought tho’ - have we considered putting Sosa as closer? It seemed like he hit a brick wall in the 5th inning every night and he has great stuff. And lord knows, he is great at getting out of jams - most of his own making.”
Sosa is hot stuff for a limited number of pitches. What more do you want from a closer? And he has guts, at least that’s my appraisal of him.
And for God’s sake forget about that $10 million SS fluke from Boston and go with Betemit.
Spend the money on pitching. The outfield is just fine so stop screwing around with it.
By Chop
December 7, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this
no way the trade with the rangers goes thru like it is now
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this
Sosa is too wild and inconsistent to close. I’ll go through a bottle of pepto every ngiht!
By Chop Chop
December 7, 2005 03:59 PM | Link to this
Here’s an official trade: Roy Oswalt, Brad Lidge and Andy Pettitte to Braves for Pete Orr, Chris Reitsma and minor-leaguer Scott Thorman.
In a related story, the Houston Astros have announced they’re moving to Calgary.
By Biff
December 7, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this
Damn, I can’t believe we gave up Orr!
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this
Chop….my eyes about bugged out until i realized it was just a joke. I was like give up whoever we have to.
I think Sosa could be a good closer, but then we would only have 2 dominant starters and not 3. Plus with Smoltz getting older they probably figure him to be more valuable to them as a starter.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 04:13 PM | Link to this
Chop…that would never happen. BC wouldn’t part with Reeksma.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this
Maybe if we did get the deal with TX done we could spin Soriano to the Sox for ManRam. Then get them to pick up atleast half of his cash and put his no fielding butt at first. He can’t be slower than Mr. Molassyss over there now and we would sure as hell get more production.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 04:25 PM | Link to this
I’m reading that there’s a 75% chance or better that the Lugey/renteria/marte trade will happen. If they do that trade, I hope they’ll sign Vina to leadoff and play 2nd, bat renteria 2nd, and trade Gily for a closer. They will still have WB and Orr for 2ndbase if vina doesn’t work out.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 04:27 PM | Link to this
what the hell are they thinking with the estrada trade. a silver slugger for an injury prone pitcher and a crappy one. the braves could have gotten much more for estrada. and please tlel me that renteria is just a rumer. i watched him play all year. hes not that good. WB is a supperior hitter and wont make 30 errors next year
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this
Carroll: You can’t trade Gily, he is a catalyst for the team. We need to spin Rentaria if possible or WB. Alot of teams are interested in WB so who knows. But I still think it would be a bad move, unless The Sox pay for almost his entire contract.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this
Yes a lot of teams are interested in WB but they don’t wanna give us sh*t for him. We can get a good closer for Gily and have a true leadoff man in Vina and a true number two hitter in renteria or WB…one who won’t strike out every time there’s a man at 3rd in the 9th inning w/ less than two out and all we need is a pop fly to tie/win.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this
Well I would prefer to deal Rentaria, maybe bring in Vina as a low risk utility if we can’t get Nomar. Some dumb team would prolly give us a closer for Renta-choker. Possibly the angels for Shields…but thats just wishful thinkin. Maybe Spin Renta to the Jays for Batista and/or Hudson who JS wants bad. Throw in some of our excess young pitching and see how that works out.
By Fernando
December 7, 2005 04:42 PM | Link to this
I don’t think the braves should trade salty or marte. Salty is going to be a star. Trade Mccan for a shortstop and put pena in there until salty is ready. I think they should also start taking a look at putting marte at first base and platoon him with Laroche. If he does good, I would trade Laroche later on. Laroche has had time to prove himself and hasn’t shown anything other than that his head isn’t in the game all the time and he can’t run a lick. What is he averaging since being in the majors, .260. Marte can atleast match that with more power. Marte struggled in the majors last year but he will be good.
By Donald Duck
December 7, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this
Carroll,
Fernando Vina is washed up. He’s been hurt the last two seasons and he’ll be 36 next year. Using that logic, why don’t we go pick up Nomar? He’ll turn 32 next year and, while he can’t leadoff, he has a career .320 average.
By Chop Chop
December 7, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this
Nomar will turn 33, Duck. Other than that, I agree that the logic is kinda screwy.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 04:50 PM | Link to this
Mark I really liked your article.Renteria moving to the Braves would be the best option to replace Furcal. He had 30 ER’s last season but you have to consider that playing at Fenway is a difficult task. He is a former two time gold glove winner(02,03) and he has 3 silver glove, also is that Boston will take 26million for the next three years of 30million which he is due. Closer, with trevor likely going to cleveland, that leaves the free agent market with Bob Wickman(likely retiring if not signed by cleveland) Octavio Dotel( which is a risk after having surgerary) and todd Jones which the braves dont seem interested. Danny Baez is said by two scouts that he is a bad competitor. Our only option is tovbeat the offer made by the indians,with the money they were going to sign furcal.Brad Lidge who told you the Astros were willing to trade him, and if they were they will ask for to much. While im writing these i just found out that estrada was traded, for oscar villa real, and Lance Cormier Horrrayyyyyyyyyy
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 04:51 PM | Link to this
What logic are you talking about? I’m fine with Nomaaaaaaaaah so long as we don’t pay too much. And at the league minimum, I think we could do a lot worse than Vina as a utility man. And if he works out better than expected, the perfect leadoff man.
cc: Goofy
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 04:51 PM | Link to this
The reason you look at Vina and Nomar is b/c everybody is giving up on them. Nomar is drawing some intrest but I would be suprised how much. The 2 vets can come in and pinch hit and be good backups without much of a risk of injury. Plus they would be really cheap, ala Jordan and Mondesi of last year. The braves have takin gambles like that in the past and with low risk/high reward players you might catch lightening in a bottle.
McCann isn’t going anywhere. I don’t mind trading LaCrotch and putting Marte at first, but the move to left field went over like a lead balloon. I don’t see why we shouldn’t deal him for a closer if we can. If we were able to acquire a closer some other way, then Chipper should move to first. He has a higher baseball IQ than anyone on the team and can adjust to different positions. Plus third is less moving around than he had at first which might help him stay healthier.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 04:53 PM | Link to this
why dont we just trade for moriono rivira while were at it
By Biff
December 7, 2005 05:00 PM | Link to this
Carroll, I’d take my chances with WB, RL, or KJ at leadoff before I’d hang my hat on Vina. Why would you want him?
Sometimes I think you should be a Mets fan, or Yanks, or Red Sox… teams that try to build on trades and free agents (and I don’t mean this as a personal insult, so don’t get all mad).
The Braves are on the verge of doing something no one has done… build a winner using all in-house talent. I for one would be happy to see a starting lineup of McCann, Laroche, Giles, Betemit, Cjones, Francoeur, AJones, Langerhans.
ALL are Braves system products, which I think is cool; only the Jones’ cost anything. Spend ALL the rest on a closer. IF we don’t win a division title while the kids mature, life goes on, I guess, though I suspect we’d be successful. And all the while, keep developing new talent so we can trade these guys before they become too expensive, with some exceptions.
I’d like to have Renteria despite a down year in Boston, but beyond that, the Braves should stand pat except for bullpen (closer) help. No Zito, No Vina, No Nomar.
By Booger
December 7, 2005 05:01 PM | Link to this
With Estrada gone and Eddie so old and slow that he can’t help us anymore, Bobby will need to pick another old guy to catch. If he really digs in he might scratch out somebody like Pratt but if he can’t pull out Pratt then he’s gonna have to probe and dig deeper for another veteran receiver. This is just an observation I have made from watching Bobby in the dugout for lo these many years. I hope he finds what he is looking for and I hope he finds it without harming himself. When he finds it, I hope he keeps it to himself. Who will be our next veteran catcher? You pick. Booger
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 05:01 PM | Link to this
Look people we just traded Johnny Estrada for Oscar Villareal who in 86 appearances during his rookie year in 2003, he posted a 2.57 ERA and registered 80 strikeouts, while issuing just 46 walks, and Lance Cormier, 25, went 7-3 with a 5.11 ERA in 67 appearances for the Diamondbacks this season. While compiling 124 2/3 innings in his first two big-league seasons, he has registered 87 strikeouts and issued 68 walks. PS: People stop thinking about Nomar and Viña they are useless the only thing they do well is to get injured
By andrew
December 7, 2005 05:06 PM | Link to this
did you hear theat the braves jsut got lidge marte and mcbride. what a move. sighn JS to an extension.
Kidding about the lidge trade. haha i got you excited
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 05:13 PM | Link to this
Another thing we could get mesa for our setup guy. We could trade Dan Kolb(mister blow out save) and Chris Reitsma which gets to tired through the season. For thos of you who think we need a new leftfielder with pop on his bat Jaque Jones is on the free agent market asking for a three-year, $20 million deal.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 05:17 PM | Link to this
dont you think that the braves have enough young pitching. They dont need to trade estrada for a couple average middle relievers. They could of got much more in my eyes.
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 05:18 PM | Link to this
If LeTwan understands correctly, the “I” in IQ stands for intelligence, right? LeTwan is amazed at the post from The Paul. Maybe The Paul is right about Chipper’s IQ. They say Mr. Ed had a high talking horse IQ, and Gumby had a high clay IQ, so anything is possible. LeTwan would think the resin bag has a higher baseball IQ than Chipper, but who knows? Uh, LeTwan is gonna go lay down for awhile.
By Biff
December 7, 2005 05:22 PM | Link to this
Letwan, I’ll take a healthy Chipper on my team any time; he’s a “jock”, yes, but he’s a winner. That said, have a nice nap!
By andrew
December 7, 2005 05:22 PM | Link to this
LeTwan is the man
By andrew
December 7, 2005 05:25 PM | Link to this
you guys have no baseball IQ
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 05:25 PM | Link to this
Ok gentlemen who Andy Marte is not worth to be traded, will pipipipipipip my pipipiippiii.Look Chipper is a brave for life former mvp, and proven third baseman. With chipper signed for three more years Andy Marte wont have a chance to play, they tried to show him another position but he is not capable. We need to think about this upcoming season and the braves have already proven that they have a great future. Now if you trade Andy Marte for a closer and a SS I think its worth it.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 05:29 PM | Link to this
there is no way that you are going to get a decent ss and closer for marte.
By Biff
December 7, 2005 05:30 PM | Link to this
andrew, there’s a saying in baseball that “you can never have too much pitching.” You may not agree, but obviously the people paid to run the Braves do.
What exactly do you mean about “us” having no baseball IQ? I read your posts on this blog and didn’t find anything to really set you apart, “intelligence-wise.” But maybe I’m missing something.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 05:33 PM | Link to this
but if you trade Beitemet and Jarrod Saltalamacchia you have the possibolity to take Renteria(former allstar) and Dany Baez
By andrew
December 7, 2005 05:34 PM | Link to this
I realize this but i would have went after scott sheilds for estrada because the angels need a catcher and have an abudance of good relievers. They aren’t goes to start Jose Molina.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 05:37 PM | Link to this
Bengie will return youll see
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 05:37 PM | Link to this
Biff; what are you talking about??!! Scroll up and look at my posts,man. I have been saying ALL day and for a few weeks that we should go with the rooks and spend all the loot on pitching. But if we can get a quality vet like Vina or Nomar on the cheap for insurance, why the hell not? And maybe, just maybe, vina might turn it around and be the leadoff man he used to be. Now that doesn’t sound like a mets fan or yanks fan does it?!
By andrew
December 7, 2005 05:39 PM | Link to this
think so. There are plenty of teams looking for a top notch catcher like bengie.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 05:40 PM | Link to this
Carroll Viña will retire, his body has suffered two much, his old legs cant run anymore.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 05:42 PM | Link to this
thomas: i read that he is trying to make a comeback and is willing to take a minor league contract to do so.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 05:43 PM | Link to this
Andrew the mets were bengies top option now the angels have the money and want him, who else can compete with the angels
By Matt
December 7, 2005 05:44 PM | Link to this
Espnews just reported that atlanta was talking to the royals about mike macdougal.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 05:46 PM | Link to this
that would be great.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 05:46 PM | Link to this
I have seen MacDougal. He stinks.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 05:48 PM | Link to this
who is mike macdougal.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 05:50 PM | Link to this
Damn Royals Closer.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 05:51 PM | Link to this
Good numbers 5-6 with a 3.33ERA in 68 games
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 05:52 PM | Link to this
a 3.33 era with 72 K’s in 70 innings. Not bad at all! Andrew you think that everyone sucks.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 05:53 PM | Link to this
bad under pressure. Picks up stats in meaningless games.
By Biff
December 7, 2005 05:53 PM | Link to this
Carroll, I took your advice and scrolled through your posts… a lot of trash to go through - why do you get caught up in the garbage? … but that’s not the point.
Yeah, I guess I see your point. I tend to find you advocating big trades, whereas I’d like to see the Braves stand pat unless a great deal comes along, but most of your posts are just reporting rumors. I don’t agree with some of your positions (and certainly not with some of the players you want us to chase), but you’re not quite the trade-monger that I accused you of being.
Sorry if I misrepresented you.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 05:54 PM | Link to this
New Dodgers shortstop Rafael Furcal chats with MLB.com.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 05:56 PM | Link to this
It’s okay, Biff. I just have fun with RR sometimes when there’s nothing else to talk about. I generally suggest going after guys that won’t cost a lot of $$$ or propsects. Hence, Vina and Nomahhh. But I’m totally fine with the team as it is, IF we can add to the pen. I think it’s a decent start with the Estrada trade. Macdougal would be big I think. I would also like to see reeksma dealt away.
By eric
December 7, 2005 05:58 PM | Link to this
Ok. Why does DOB’s blog get shut down? How are we supposed to get updates from him? In other neews…any1 hear anyting more on Renteria?
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 06:02 PM | Link to this
What would you think about bringing Mesa to setup
By Biff
December 7, 2005 06:02 PM | Link to this
Carroll, thanks…
I’m not as down on Reitsma as some. He pitched WAY too many innings last year, and had his role shifted around quite a bit. I’m not joining his fan club just yet, but I think it would be hard to find a mid-inning guy who’s better, if used properly. He’s got good stuff.
By john
December 7, 2005 06:07 PM | Link to this
The braves are not going to get Renteria. They will probably let arookie play. thats why there not going to go no were
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 06:09 PM | Link to this
A rumored three-way deal between Boston, Tampa Bay and Atlanta that would send Renteria to the Braves with the Red Sox getting infielder Julio Lugo and the Devil Rays getting prospects, fell apart. The Braves and Red Sox were still trying to work a two-team deal involving Renteria and Braves third base prospect Andy Marte. …The last news they reported
By john
December 7, 2005 06:13 PM | Link to this
The BRAVES SUCK
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 06:16 PM | Link to this
Biff: (I think I had this same conversation with Raisins the other day) I agree about reeksma but as long as BC has him, you know he’s gonna overuse him. It’s like a narcotic almost….if he’s near the junk, he’s prolly gonna use it. You know how BC always falls in love with one or two relievers and we all know they’re crap but he keeps going to them (McMichael, Cloontz, Reardon, lighteningturd, etc,etc,etc.) I think he needs to go for the good of both himself and the braves.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 06:17 PM | Link to this
go to hell john
By eric
December 7, 2005 06:17 PM | Link to this
Yeah, I really think the will get Renteria. It sounds like the BOSOX would eat some of his contract. Think about it. He has like 3 yrs 30 mill left. If they end up paying, say 7 mill per yr. That would be worth it. And still leave plenty of money leftover. And com’n. He is a proven entity. Last yr was a fluke. The guy has had solid seasons every yr. Chipper had a dull yr a few yrs ago. No1 wrote him off.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 06:17 PM | Link to this
Look I am in Colombia, Iam from Colombia, I live in Colombia, I know for this reason that Renteria is the best option for the braves to replace furcal at SS
By eric
December 7, 2005 06:18 PM | Link to this
Yeah, I really think we will get Renteria. It sounds like the BOSOX would eat some of his contract. Think about it. He has like 3 yrs 30 mill left. If they end up paying, say 7 mill per yr. That would be worth it. And still leave plenty of money leftover. And com’n. He is a proven entity. Last yr was a fluke. The guy has had solid seasons every yr. Chipper had a dull yr a few yrs ago. No1 wrote him off.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 06:20 PM | Link to this
The Braves said that if the redsox pay 26millions of what is left of Renterias Contract they will trade Marte.
By eric
December 7, 2005 06:21 PM | Link to this
I say take a chance and get E. Renteria. We are not going to ever use Marte anyways.
By john
December 7, 2005 06:21 PM | Link to this
the braves arnt goin to get any one because JS wants to save money. White sox are the best . no the rookies
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 06:24 PM | Link to this
Exactly Eric
By Matt
December 7, 2005 06:25 PM | Link to this
This guy has nothing else better to do than talk bad about the braves. He jumps on the bandwagon of the whitesox just because they just won the championship.
By john
December 7, 2005 06:26 PM | Link to this
No more 15 consecutive titles
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 06:27 PM | Link to this
When someone talks bad about the braves is because he doesnt know about baseball
By john
December 7, 2005 06:30 PM | Link to this
Braves are never going to win the world series. Royals have a better chance. Braves dont have any one good exept Andruw Jones
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 06:30 PM | Link to this
and he is jelous
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 06:33 PM | Link to this
excuse me the whitesox hadnt won a world series in 50 yrs and the Braves won in 95 and they are more critizised
By john
December 7, 2005 06:34 PM | Link to this
Jelous of what. YA dont have a team ya suck. you have no pitchers. OHH u got rookies that suck. and look who we got every body. Braves suck they can never win the world series in 14 years. thats sad
By eric
December 7, 2005 06:34 PM | Link to this
Ok John…lets learn some names, JE-FF FRAN-COUER, ok good job. CHI-PPER JONES. nice. ok one more. MARCUS GILES. Ohhh wait those guys suck. N/M I forgot. Andruw J is there only good player. lol
Ohh I forgot the worst of all. John Smoltz. What a washed up loser. Why hasnt he retired?
By eric
December 7, 2005 06:39 PM | Link to this
Ohh yeah another……..Tim Hudson. Theres a name I have heard. Is he another pathetic excuse of a player?
By andrew
December 7, 2005 06:41 PM | Link to this
john your retarded-forgetting about hudson, tompson, rameriz, sosa. i believe there pretty good pitchers. come back when you get an education on baseball
By eric
December 7, 2005 06:42 PM | Link to this
I remember like a couple of years ago, the white sox wanted to trade Magglio for Andruw. LOL. J.S. probably laughed in there face.
By john
December 7, 2005 06:42 PM | Link to this
jeff francour are u kidding that guy sucks all he did is strike out. shut up. Cipper didnt even play. marcus giles defense he has never herd about it.Andruw strike out king.smoltz is ok. be series come watch big boys play. CHAMPS
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 06:43 PM | Link to this
Nice job, guys… When this blog shuts down in about 10 minutes, this BS will be why…
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 06:46 PM | Link to this
THoff is staying in SD, it’s official…
By john
December 7, 2005 06:46 PM | Link to this
nice job guys shut up. Braves suck
By maddens better
December 7, 2005 06:49 PM | Link to this
maddens better then halo
By john
December 7, 2005 06:52 PM | Link to this
tim hudson wasnt he the one that f*** up in the playoffs. And sosa wats his career record 12-90.
By eric
December 7, 2005 06:52 PM | Link to this
No biggie on Hoff. We were not getting him anyways.
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 06:54 PM | Link to this
Raisins, we need a closer. They are all going away, one by one. What do you think JS will do?
By john
December 7, 2005 06:57 PM | Link to this
ya now ya quiet i shut ya up . ya know im right
By eric
December 7, 2005 06:57 PM | Link to this
john- hudson shut down the stros for 8 innings in a big game 4. Com’on be serious. Is it his fault that farnsworth blew it? and sosa? He went like 7 innings and gave up 3 runs. and the bullpen blew it again.
By eric
December 7, 2005 06:58 PM | Link to this
john- hudson shut down the stros for 8 innings in a big game 4. Com’on be serious. Is it his fault that farnsworth blew it? and sosa? He went like 7 innings and gave up 3 runs. and the bullpen blew it again. if your gonna talk trash, you can bash the pen’ go ahead, but dont bash players that you really dont have anything on.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 06:59 PM | Link to this
the braves have enough relievers to trade for scott shields. do it JS!!!!!!
By john
December 7, 2005 07:00 PM | Link to this
Dats my point braves suck
By jeff1
December 7, 2005 07:02 PM | Link to this
john, go slit your wrist
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 07:05 PM | Link to this
LT: The fact that JS at least put out feelers on Chad Qualls from Houston and Chris Ray from Baltimore (40.2 IP, 43 K, 2.66 ERA) tells me that he wants to find someone young as opposed to a Wickman or TJones. The problem, of course, is that Qualls or Ray (deemed untouchable) would come at a pretty steep price. Could be why he’s stocking up on young arms…
By eric
December 7, 2005 07:05 PM | Link to this
Kolb’s gone…back to the brew crew…lol, watch him go like 4-1 with a 2.13 era.
By john
December 7, 2005 07:05 PM | Link to this
jeff go suck a dick
By eric
December 7, 2005 07:05 PM | Link to this
Kolb’s gone. Back to the brew-crew. Watch him go 4-2 with a 2.11 era.
By eric
December 7, 2005 07:08 PM | Link to this
John, com’on. You are gonna get this blog shut down. I really dont care that you hate the Braves. But dont ruin this for every1.
By john
December 7, 2005 07:08 PM | Link to this
kolb sucks just like the whole atlanta bullpen . Chicago has the best bullpen
By john
December 7, 2005 07:16 PM | Link to this
braves suck.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 07:21 PM | Link to this
Thompson and a young reliever for Shields. Then we have saved about 15 mil in cash to do whatever we want. I suggest getting another starter b/c after Hudson, Smoltz, and Sosa you need another dominant arm to make sure you have a run at the world series. Let’s face it everybody knows Thompson sucks but for some reason the Angles want him. Then if the Renteria trade goes through you can either send him or WB (or Marte if you want) for a top of the line starter. You can throw in 1 or 2 of the young middle relievers that we have plenty of and be set.
By Wendy
December 7, 2005 07:22 PM | Link to this
i’ll take Renteria over f******* AND Lugo anyday. Both rafae and julio have excess baggage(drunken driving, assault). Renteria is a proven all star that can play SS just as good as anyone. His Clutch Bat and fast feet(although not as fast as rafae’s) would be nice up in front of Marcus. So if it takes Marte, let him go. Chip isnt retiring anytime soon, nor is he moving to first base. (hello.. Laroche 20 homers this year, the avg/rbi total will pop up this year.) Renteria, Giles, C. Jones, A. Jones, LaRoache, Francour, McCann, Langerhans/Johnson. Not bad eh?
woot woot.. just heard- Kolb back to Brewtown for Obermueller. Sinara Kolb, dont let the screen door hit you in the arse on the way out.
By Wendy
December 7, 2005 07:30 PM | Link to this
I’ll take renteria over Furcal and Lugo anyday. ( i dont know why they starred Furcal. lol)
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 07:34 PM | Link to this
Wendy: Rentaria has had 3 straight down years in a row. Although Cox could prolly maximize him he won’t be an all star, and he isn’t worth 10 mil a year. If the Sox pay most of that then it is worth it sure.
La Crotch isn’t the answer at first, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Let him try it out this year by his self. Once he fails in the first half of the season we can get somebody at the trade deadline. Plus we are saving major cash right now.
A young closer like Ray or Qualls are not that expensive either, and the key is they are YOUNG. I hope JS gets a deal done with them. Alot of teams are interested in Retsma too so throw him in and get him outa here.
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 07:39 PM | Link to this
The Brewers probably gave more for Kolb than could be gotten anywhere else. Obermueller may turn into something. Better than just releasing Kolb. Brewerfan was right. Now, Brewerfan, how ‘bout sending us Turnbow to make up for the Kolb thing?
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 07:39 PM | Link to this
Oddly enough, the Braves are scheduled to meet with Nomar’s people tomorrow, according to Ken Rosenthal. Seems that JS has been really busy today, being turned down on trade offers for Coco Crisp, Craig Monroe and Adam Everett.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 07:46 PM | Link to this
KOLBS GONE!! 15 here we come
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 08:08 PM | Link to this
Wendy: are you serious??!! The Brew Crew actually gave us something for Kolb? How is this obermueller guy?
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 08:19 PM | Link to this
Wow….just read about the Kolb deal on the braves website…couldn’t find it anywhere else. Funny…this time last year, Kolb-to-the-Braves was the top story on all the major websaites, etc. Now Kolb-back-to-the-BrewCrew is just another scrub sliding between the cracks unworthy of even a footnote. Congress oughtta investigate the BrewCrew and Dan Kolb over that whole debacle.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 08:32 PM | Link to this
What is the braves website address?
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 08:34 PM | Link to this
you’re joking, right the Paul?
Damn….this obermueller guy seems like Kolb’s evil twin. What the hell is the point of that?
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 08:39 PM | Link to this
I’m new to this blog stuff…and no i’m not jokin
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 08:40 PM | Link to this
The point is…he’s anyone but Kolb!
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 08:43 PM | Link to this
The Braves’ web address is: http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 08:44 PM | Link to this
Yeah he can’t be any worse than Kolb, and maybe this guy will be ok. Or more importantly he is a young starter that we can package in another deal. He was going to be the Brew’s #5 starter this year, so maybe somebody will want him. We can throw him in a deal a hell of a lot easier than Kolb. The Brewers are the only ones that would take this guy no matter what.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 08:51 PM | Link to this
Thanks Voice
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 08:52 PM | Link to this
The current Braves depth chart lists 16 pitchers - 6 starters and 10 relievers. Surely, JS is loading up for another deal or 2. It seems as though he is really pushing for a leadoff hitter, being rebuffed at least 3 times today.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 08:52 PM | Link to this
he’s cheeper, younger, has to have a better makeup, better pitches(aka more then one), and better control. this eaqules a better pitcher even if the era is remotly close
By TOM
December 7, 2005 08:53 PM | Link to this
I JUST GOT ON. AFTER READING SOME OF JOHN’S CRAP, I’M CONVINCED HE’S DOING SOME SORT OF DRUGS. THE BRAVES WILL BE FINE. THEY HAVE SOMETHING NOT MANY TEAMS HAVE. THEY HAVE FAITH IN THEMSELVES AND THEIR MANAGER. LET THE METS LOAD UP, IT WON’T MAKE A DIFFERENCE WHEN IT’S ALL OVER. BY THE WAY JOHN, LETS HEAR MORE ABOUT THAT WHITE SOX “TRADITION”
By john
December 7, 2005 08:53 PM | Link to this
i think braves should of got todd jones instead of Obermueller. he sucks
By john
December 7, 2005 08:57 PM | Link to this
tom go suck a dick. go braves suck a* braves hahahaha
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 08:57 PM | Link to this
TJones is on the verge of signing a 2 year deal with Detroit… Exactly what is a verge, anyway, and how do you get on it? Can you get off it once you’re on it? I’ve been looking at small font too long…
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 08:58 PM | Link to this
Yeah he wants a young closer too. Don’t be suprised though if we get Batista for a couple of young pitchers. Then we can try to work somethin for leadoff after that.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 08:59 PM | Link to this
why are you stll talking john. the sox won, congrats, im happy for you. but if you dont like the braves why waste you time on their site?
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 09:00 PM | Link to this
The Paul: sorry to sound rude…thought you might be jerkin my chain.
It’s not just the era’s that are similar…the w-l record, K’s per inning, etc. I am glad Kolb is gone but that’s about alls I can say right now. Hopefuly these guys work out like Sosa did last year and not like that guy we got in the Marerro trade from KC.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 09:03 PM | Link to this
Yes we got rid of Kolb, This deserves a celebration
By TOM
December 7, 2005 09:03 PM | Link to this
JOHN I SEE A PATTERN. DO ALL SOX FANS SUCK THE BIG ONE LIKE YOU OBVIOUSLY DO. THAT WOULD EXPLAIN YOUR TYPING YOUR COMMENTS, HARD TO TALK WHEN YOUR MOUTHS FULL OF C**K
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 09:05 PM | Link to this
Well I’m extatic that Todd Jones is signing elsewhere. That means the Braves can’t get him. He is the poor man’s Kolb from last year. A one hit wonder with nothin but junk.
The White Sox do have a tradition however…one that is messed up with never winning a playoff series until last year of course. Well I take that back, they did win once right before they threw the freakin series. Yeah that worked out real well for all involved and got one of the greats Shoeless Joe Jackson kicked out of baseball. Nice job black sox tradition.
I would also like to add something else that we have that the Mets don’t…a payroll less than 65 mil. The mets by now hafta be around 150 to 175.
By Carroll
December 7, 2005 09:06 PM | Link to this
MAYBE WE SHOULD ALL START TYPING IN CAPS LIKE RR USED TO DO ALL THE TIME. IT MAKES IT EASIER TO READ.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 09:09 PM | Link to this
All of those crackheads that wanted Millwood back should know that he is now wanting a 4 year deal from 11 mil a season with a player option for a 5th. Which means…thats right thank goodness that cat isn’t comin back. The Mariners are supposedly more interested in him than anybody but they just want to do a 4 year deal.
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 09:10 PM | Link to this
Paul: Not sure if you were referring to Batista as young or not, but for info sake - he’ll be 35 by spring training.
By old timer
December 7, 2005 09:11 PM | Link to this
Hey, guys. I have mixed feelings about Renteria. I’ve always liked him, but the off year scares me because it came as soon as he got a mega-million deal. I really like WB and would rather play him at short and use Marte in a package to get a lead-off hitter who can play left. The Estrada trade is a little strange, but the Villarreal kid was lights out his rookie year, so if he’s healthy now, it could work out well. And who isn’t glad to see Kolb go?
By Max Levine
December 7, 2005 09:13 PM | Link to this
I wish the media would give Joey Devine a break. He’s right out of school and has never been put in a game with a lead. He’s held up pretty well, all things considered, and shows the kind of dignity and class that’s seldom seen in pro sports anymore. Rather than criticize the kid, why don’t we celebrate the fact that Atlanta’s got a real solid prospect on the horizon that demonstrates humility and selflessness? The Brave’s haven’t used their draft pick in the bigs since ‘78. That’s got to tell us all something. Cox is no dummy. He knows a good thing when he’s got it.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 09:18 PM | Link to this
No I was referring to the kid from Baltimore mainly. There is also a kid from KC that they were talkin about. Batista would be a good fit if they can’t get a younger kid that has talent. He throws hard with 4 pitches and did a good job last year. Plus with BJ Ryan he is alot more affordable. Also wouldn’t mind Shields still from the Angels. Or Quall from Houston.
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 09:19 PM | Link to this
Max, I don’t think anyone is downing Devine, but we all realize that he is just what you said - young. I personally believe he is the future closer for ATL, but you can’t go into 2006 with a question mark to anchor your ‘pen.
On another note, if the report is true that JS was rebuffed on a trade proposal to send WB to Detroit for Craig Monroe, then something on the SS burner must be cooking…
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 09:22 PM | Link to this
I think that Devine should be a major part of the team this year. I look to him to step up big, and I think he will. He has really good composure out there and also has good stuff. Look for him to be in the rotation in 2 years.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 09:22 PM | Link to this
shields really has not been rumered at all. i just made that one up but that would include johney estrada. so unless JS pulls out an amazing trade, i wouldent count on shields. but hoping can never hurt. i hope the mets get cought dispersing steriods amoung their players, haha
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 09:23 PM | Link to this
Attention everybody, with the aquisition of the redsox (Mark Lorreta) they might be prepared to trade Renteria for Andy Marte and Jarrod Saltalamacchia. They traded Mirabelly so Jarrod Saltalamacchia will play their backup role.
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 09:24 PM | Link to this
Also, Craig Monroe is an OF who’s not a leadoff hitter. He’s really very similar to Lang - high .200’s avg., 15-20 HR. Hmmm…
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 09:24 PM | Link to this
The Paul, Millwood had turned into Cormier and Villarreal.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 09:25 PM | Link to this
I hope they get caught dispersing steroids to their entire team…this includes you Traitor Glavine.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 09:27 PM | Link to this
thank you paul
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 09:28 PM | Link to this
With Kolb gone the Braves dont have to pay his 4million salarie per year. Now they have the money they didnt use on Furcal and Kolbs.
By old timer
December 7, 2005 09:29 PM | Link to this
Gads. Marte and Salty for Renteria would be a really bad idea.
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 09:29 PM | Link to this
Paul: Devine’s not a starter, won’t be in the rotation. He was a closer at NC State, and will most likely be a closer in the bigs.
Also, Salty is going nowhere. The only movement you’ll see from him is from C to 1B…
By andrew
December 7, 2005 09:32 PM | Link to this
living in new england and watching about 140 red sox games this year i can honestly tell you that betemit played MUCH better when he was in the lineup last year. he deserves his chance. im not saying that the braves should not get a backup plan, but thats what he should be, a backup. get a quality young closer and sign him for a few years.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 09:32 PM | Link to this
Can anyone give me Jarrod Saltalamacchia stats
By old timer
December 7, 2005 09:34 PM | Link to this
Are the Brewers actually going to pay Kolb $4 million? He is signed already for that, we had him on a two-year deal? If he is, you gotta wonder whether we’re picking some of that up.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 09:34 PM | Link to this
Tomas Mogollon go to rosters on the braves site, minor leagues, hes on the pelicans
By Wendy
December 7, 2005 09:35 PM | Link to this
Does anyone know if we offered Julio arbitration?
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 09:35 PM | Link to this
Salty is supposedly the future right? So why trade him with somebody they are that sure about? They didn’t with CHipper, Francy, and Andruw. I doubt he is goin anywhere, and for sure hope not.
My bad on the Devine thing, butI know I like him alot. HOw fast is his fastball? If they think that Devine is the answer then it might make more sense to go after the more affordable Batista.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 09:38 PM | Link to this
bobby cox siad that devine throws anywere between 92 and 96. i suggest you watch his interview in mlb.com it shows his class as well as the organizations
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 09:39 PM | Link to this
The way we got screwed by Kolb they should be picking up his whole contract.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 09:39 PM | Link to this
Jarrod Saltalamacchia: Individual Stats (Batting) Team From To G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG Myrtle Beach Pelicans 04/07 09/05 129 459 70 144 35 1 19 81 238 57 99 4 2 .394 .519 .314 Phoenix Desert Dogs 10/04 11/10 21 73 16 21 6 1 1 8 32 13 19 1 0 .386 .438 .288 United States 11/15 11/19 3 8 4 7 0 0 2 5 13 2 0 0 0 .900 1.625 .875
Nice numbers
By BB FAN
December 7, 2005 09:40 PM | Link to this
According to David O’Brien, These blogs get shut down after 24-48 hours because of guys like Booger. His non stop crap about Cox. He still does it. So that is who to blame for nopt having O’Brien’s reports all week long.
Back to baseball. I thought the Braves did OK wit hthe Estrada trade. They got two live arms. If one of them has a solid year in middle relief, it’s worht it. Trading Kolb was a good idea of course. He just did not have what it takes to pitch in a big city. Obermueller is nobody special, but again, who knows. Maybe McDowell can teach them something. Mike MacDougal did well last year. He might be worth trading for as long as the Braves don’t give up too much. Hoffman is back with SD. That means Wickman is going back to Cleveland. So there really is not a lot of closers left. JS should concentrate on the closer position.
Nomar would not be bad as a utility man…if he takes a fraction of the 8 mill he made last year. JS could load the deal with incentives. But he won’t be able to play SS everyday. I say WB is the SS. If they can get a guy to lead off, great, if not, let Giles.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 09:43 PM | Link to this
When Salty is ready what would we make with Mccan. Instead of Salty we could trade Beitemet and Marte for Renteria, and Boston will be paying 26million of what its left of renterias contract
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 09:44 PM | Link to this
Wendy: They said that they weren’t going to I believe.
By Ozzy
December 7, 2005 09:45 PM | Link to this
I don’t know if trading Marte is the answer but we don’t need a 3rd baseman we need a shortstop. I agree with the Orr tryout at short. But you know that is why they get paid to manage and we get to second guess them. No answer is going to be perfect and hindsight is always perfect. I just wish they had better luck in the playoffs. But I will say this. I have been a braves fan for over thirty years. I remember what it was liked when we totally sucked. People that don’t like what the braves do need to get off the band wagon and get on with whoever wins the pennant because I don’t feel like your true fans to braves.
By Wendy
December 7, 2005 09:48 PM | Link to this
Garciaparra may ring in with some sort of hometown discount.. hes a former techie. his best days are def. behind him.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 09:49 PM | Link to this
look im 14 yrs old and im turning 15 in January, So since i was born the braves have won, and as long as i leave they keep the streak alive
By andrew
December 7, 2005 09:49 PM | Link to this
i still firmly believe langy could be a very good leadoff hitter. he reminds me alot of johney damon at a younger age. he hits gaps, has speed, could possibly steel you 15-20 bases and has some pop. also he is extremly clutch, which i know means he should be batting in the middle, but late in the game it does not matter where you hit but whos on when you hit, and mccain, possibly betimet, and our pitchers bunting them into schoring position could mena 75rbi’s or so for him as a leadoff man. now i may just be favoring him because i see his heart when he plays, but i know kid has skills.
By old timer
December 7, 2005 09:49 PM | Link to this
The importance of a real lead-off hitter cannot be overstated. Our best teams have been the ones with slap and speed at the top.
By Wendy
December 7, 2005 09:51 PM | Link to this
Garciaparra may ring in with some sort of hometown discount.. hes a former techie. his best days are def. behind him.
As starting pitching goes, do we have enough depth? Smoltz Hudson Sosa Thompson Ramirez? Rock hard one and two, and hopefully with three. If thompson gets back to pre thumb injury status and ramirez hops back on track it looks good. Alot of If’s..
By old timer
December 7, 2005 09:53 PM | Link to this
Orr isn’t going to be able to play short. His defense isn’t that good, though he can hit some and we love his hustle.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 09:56 PM | Link to this
i say bring back eddie perez. everyone he catches stats go up, ala horacio rameriz and hampton. he could be valuable as a vetrin catcher to groom mccain a little more and help rameriz ragain his form of 2 years ago
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 09:58 PM | Link to this
Look Langerthans is a very good ball player i like him a lot, but man he is not a leadoff guy he can bat 2 or 6 but not leadoff. He has no speed compared to Damon, or any prove leadoff man. I would like the braves to keep langerthans in the starting lineup, but left field is the only position with shorstop that isnt irreplaceble. I heard the Nationals are looking to acquire Soriano, and he is weeling to go to left field, he led off for the Yankees, and stole 40 sb he could be the answer. So Mccan as catcher, 1B Adam Laroche, 2B Marcus Giles, 3B Chipper Jones, SS Edgar Renteria, LF Alfonso Soriano, CF Andruw Jones, RF Jeff Franceour not bad eh…..
By Wendy
December 7, 2005 10:00 PM | Link to this
didnt Eddie retire?
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 10:03 PM | Link to this
Forget about Eddie he will be a coach for the braves
By jim
December 7, 2005 10:03 PM | Link to this
WINDY- I hope not on franco. The last four weeks of the season he didn’t have it. To old— Should go after Eduardo Perez free agent -1st,3rd,Lf, Rf. Good power
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 10:06 PM | Link to this
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=atl Here is a page where they show all team salaries, the Braves are paying 85,148,582
By Wendy
December 7, 2005 10:08 PM | Link to this
Soriano will not be dawning an atlanta brave uniform anytime soon. We can all dream, but brass tax, it just isnt gonna happen. JS will probably lock down ss with renteria or WB, while Langerhans and Johnson platoon in left. Scouts are reporting WB never looked more sharp. Let the kid have his spot in the sun, he desurves it.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 10:09 PM | Link to this
(http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=atl)
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:11 PM | Link to this
Tom that was last year. Right now we are 15 to 20 mil under our cap of 85 mil according to Mr. Shurholtz
By LeTwan Anthony
December 7, 2005 10:12 PM | Link to this
LeTwan took up for Carroll when people were after him, and LeTwan took up for himself, now LeTwan has to take up for Booger. Don’t think he’s posted but one time in several weeks. BBFan, With all the vulgarities on this blog Booger can’t be the issue. He just critcizes Bobby and you idolize him. T** for tat.
Those “two live arms” for Estrada (2004 All-Star and Silver Slugger) include one that is recovering from a torn rotator cuff and long rehab. He pitched 13 innings last year so let’s hope the arm is “live” as you suggest.
Can’t pitch in the big city? How about just can’t pitch? Did Kolb get all his saves at home in 2004? Brewers drew 2.2 million, Braves drew 2.5 million. Big crowds in Atlanta must have terrified him, huh? Won’t the Brewers travel to NY, Chicago, and LA - or will they just pitch him at home?
According to reports, Detroit turned down a trade for Betemit earlier in the day. So, if he’s your SS, it’s by default.
Somebody’s not paying attention.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 10:14 PM | Link to this
Wendy I want langerthans to play but we need a lead of guy. Soriano hit 36hr and stole 30SB, he is being paid 7,500,000 per year and you say he is not worth it. he is capable of a 40-40season.
By old timer
December 7, 2005 10:17 PM | Link to this
Wendy, that was a weird platoon in left last year with Langerhans and Johnson both hitting left-handed. I don’t see that again next year. You’re right. We need more starting pitching. And I agree with whoever said we need to go with the young guys and really stock up in the pen. Plus trade one of our good young guys (Marte probably) for a good young lead-off man.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:17 PM | Link to this
Thompson should be out of here. 4.5 a year is outrageous for a guy that throws a flat 88mph fastball. Get a real starter for a change.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 10:20 PM | Link to this
Look like JS said there so much talent in this organization that we can make trades. I would trade Kelly, Beitemet, and Marte to acquire topcaliber players like Renteria, and Soriano
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:21 PM | Link to this
A true leadoff guy doesn’t hit 40 homers…he gets on base alot.
By Wendy
December 7, 2005 10:22 PM | Link to this
oh he’s every bit worth it, I’d love for dorothy to click her heels and soriano magicly appear in left field ready to go, but it isnt going to happen.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 10:25 PM | Link to this
for all of you who say Langy has no speed i say did you watch him run down any of those fly balls last year? True hes no furcall but he does not have estradas speed either. and renteria should be forgotton about. listen to what the local sports reporters have to say about him in boston. he was pitiful last year and made them wish they kept cabrea
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 10:25 PM | Link to this
I agree with you The Paul Thompson is not worth 4.5million even on his dreams. With Sosa emerging to be a caulity starter the braves could make a move in thompson. We also have Kyle Davies, Thompson could be a valiable piece to aquire a closer
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:26 PM | Link to this
I think we could package Thompson, Marte, and a young pitcher for a top starter. Then we could probable trade Kelly and maybe that kid from the Brewers for Batista until Devine is ready in a year or 2.
By Wendy
December 7, 2005 10:30 PM | Link to this
Langerhans/Johnson isn’t the best platoon granted, and with guys like encarnacion and Danny Bautista available, there are options. I’m not sure how well they would fit into the makeup of the team (batting 6/7th?) but nether the less, there are options.
I am starting to worry about closing though, the market is getting limited and there isn’t too much even in the trade market. Might be tempted to try an old gun like Roberto Hernandez or Urbina and hope that Devine progresses quickly.
By Steven
December 7, 2005 10:32 PM | Link to this
Am I the only one here who is dreading the trade for Renteria? I mean come on you want Renteria to lead off and play shortstop for us? The Guy had 9 steals in 14 attempts, a 330 OBP and led all AL shortstops with 30 errors. I have a good friend who is a Red Sox fan and he says he would take anyone back over that guy. He has no heart and no clutch ability. We really want to invest 32 million dollars for the next three years on this guy? Perhaps the Red Sox eat some of his contract but still I would hate being stuck with this guy for three years and have him not produce. That is a lot of money for a career 288 hitter who has seen his average drop 54 points over the last two years and his stolen base total drop 25.
Second why trade Marte? I mean I know that we have Chipper still at third, but this kid might be something special. He was our highest ranked prospect, higher even than Francour. Thirdbasemen with pop are hard to find, a lot harder to find than over priced shortstops who seem to be over the hill. I think we really regret this deal a few years down the road if we make it.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 10:34 PM | Link to this
Look people Renteria had a down year but he still hit 275, made 30 ers, but in Fenway. Cabrera is “la verga” which means a very good player, he made 2 ers and didnt win the gold glove this year. But Renteria is a clutch hitter, and he has 3 silver awards and two gold gloves. Boston is a touqh place, and tense to play look at manny.
By Wendy
December 7, 2005 10:37 PM | Link to this
I just checked out Urbina’s numbers. It seems he should be anchient, but he’s only 31. (one of those that has been playing since he was 2) He looks pretty good. So he could be an option; at least until there is confidence in devine.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:37 PM | Link to this
Last year Cox said Francouer was the best in the farm system…even better than Marte. I don’t mind keeping him if we moved Chipper to first, but that isn’t happening. Marte can’t learn another position and Chipper can only play 3rd or 1st now. His value could help bring a piece of the puzzle we don’t already have, or he could be a piece that we don’t need which is what he is now. I like him but unless Chipper moves we have nothing to do with the kid.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 10:37 PM | Link to this
In 2002 Soriano hit 300 with an OBP of 332 39 Hr 102RBI and stole 41 bases as the lead off hitter for the Yankees.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 10:43 PM | Link to this
andrew i didnt say that langerthans couldnt run but he is not a true leadoff hitter, nor marcus, nor Renteria. But what do you think about soriano to play left field for the braves, do you there is a possibility
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:46 PM | Link to this
If we got Soriano he would be a #4 hitter and move Andruw to the 5 hole. HE ISN’T A LEADOFF GUY!!!
Urbina set some of the workers on his ranch in Venwezula on fire…therefore he might be in jail. Either way we don’t need a guy with such outstanding character.
Rentaria has had 3 straight down years, made 30 ERRORS. The braves typically win with pitching a defense. The only guy on the Sox I would take that didn’t worry about that is ManRam. Man would that be awesome…but anyways Rentaria is prolly really 32 or 33 (nobody really knows) and with 3 straight down years it doesn’t look good. The only thing good about it is if got more from Rentaria than Marte as trade bait.
The lineup is fine with Giles moving to leadoff, then Langy, Chip, Druw, Fran, La Crotch, WB, and McCann. Then in mid season we will hopefully realize that La Crotch sucks and make a move for a first baseman. That along with another front line starter instead of Thompson, and a closer like Batista we are set. Oh and throw Retsma in one of those trades b/c people like him and he sucks balls. Let Devine set up.
By andrew
December 7, 2005 10:46 PM | Link to this
i see what your saying thomas M. but i think that jeter fits into the mold your saying langerhans is. they won 96 games this year and hes one of the best. im not saing langy’s that good, but you can win with a smart hitter/player at leadoff rather then a speedster, thats all im saying.
By Steven
December 7, 2005 10:47 PM | Link to this
Thanks Tomas for making my point for me, he played in FENWAY i.e. where everyone can hit and produce. Especially right handed hitters who can bang it off the Green monster. More statistics for you, he is a career .244 hitter in the postseason with only one homerun and just 17 rbi’s in 194 AB’s and 57 games. Do we really want this guy?
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 10:50 PM | Link to this
andruw would be #4 and Soriano #5
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:51 PM | Link to this
I agree andrew. Pierre doesn’t walk much and hit 270 last year. When he did get on base he stole alot, but with Gily, Chip, and Druw hitting behind someone you just want them to get on. How many times was Furcal not allowed to run b/c Chipper or Andruw was up and they didn’t want an intentional walk? Alot…plus a smart hitter that works the count, kinda like Counsel was for the Diamondbacks, or Jeter would probably fit into that roll better for the Braves. With that said I don’t know if Langy is that guy. He is good and improved over time last year, but he is still really young and that is a pretty big responsibility.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 10:58 PM | Link to this
Wowowo steven hold it, he hit a worst this year than in Bush stadium. In 02 he hit 305, in 03 he hit 330, in 04 287, and in Fenway 277, fully healthy. My point was is that the infield in fenway park is very bad, bad hops. In Bush he won 2 gold gloves.
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 10:59 PM | Link to this
Soriano hits for power just like Andruw, but Soriano has a better average. It would be a nice problem to have…and they aren’t going to have it, but Soriano should hit 4 and give Chipper a chance to hit with the game on the line and not int. walk for Andruw to strike out.
By Steven
December 7, 2005 11:03 PM | Link to this
True Tomas Renteria’s bad year defensively might be a fluke the question is he really worth the money we are going to have to invest in him and the prospect Marte too. I don’t think Renteria solves our leadoff problem either and he didn’t work out in the number two hole either in Boston last year and was eventually moved down the order.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 11:06 PM | Link to this
Would you imagine the lineup with soriano and renteria in it, it would be dreadful. Andruw beating Barry Bonds record for hr in one season(without steroids) chipper having another mvp season like in 99, soriano having a 40-40 season, Franceour winning rookie of the year. Hopefully
By The Paul
December 7, 2005 11:09 PM | Link to this
I’m pretty sure Fancouer had to many at bats last year to be considered ROY.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 11:10 PM | Link to this
Steven another thing is that the trade will only hold up if the redsox pay 26million of renterias resting salarie. It doesnt solve our leadoff issue but our SS
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 11:13 PM | Link to this
Yes if he had he would have won. He still cualifies for this season
By Matt
December 7, 2005 11:16 PM | Link to this
Espn just reported soriano traded to the nationals.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 11:18 PM | Link to this
The only thing left for the brves to do is get Albert Pujols. jajajaja hopefully
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 11:22 PM | Link to this
Nationals trying to land Soriano
By Matt
December 7, 2005 11:23 PM | Link to this
The trade is official.
By Matt
December 7, 2005 11:25 PM | Link to this
National gave up wilkerson, sledge, and a player to be named.
By Tomas Mogollon
December 7, 2005 11:28 PM | Link to this
not yet it is not official in espn doesnt say, nor mlb
By Matt
December 7, 2005 11:29 PM | Link to this
was just reported on espnews.
By Voice of Reason
December 7, 2005 11:34 PM | Link to this
The deal is done pending physicals.
The word is qualify!
Francouer lost ROY in 2005, doesn’t qualify in 2006.
Suggestion: Try spelling and punctuation… My God, where has this blog gone?
By rainman
December 7, 2005 11:40 PM | Link to this
for those that does not like giles at leadoff he had a better obp, avg, scored more runs, had more extra base hits total bases so on and so on why people dont like him makes no sense to me. the nationals robbed the rangers peter gammons is about to talk on espn news about the trade.
By Brendan
December 8, 2005 12:08 AM | Link to this
It looks like the only thing keeping Edgar from coming to the Braves is how much Boston will eat up on his contract. I think using Marte in the deal wouldn’t be a bad thing especially with the depth that the Braves system still has. For all the people high on Wilson Betemit and his good numbers last year as a fill in, remember Mark DeRosa? He too had great numbers as a fill in but when they gave him the chance to play everyday, he fell flat on his face. I think Wilson could be a good shortstop but on a team where the expectations arent so high. In fact, I think they could trade him and get decent pitching in return.
By Steven
December 8, 2005 12:11 AM | Link to this
Boy the nationals did still Soriano, I am not looking forward to playing him all season. That kid can hit. Any reason why we couldn’t of made up a package similar to what the nationals offered and moved that kid to ss? Just dreaming……