AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2005 > October > 28 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USThis Floptober truly haunting for Braves
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Terence Moore
Instead of lions and tigers and bears, oh my, we’re talking about Leo and Jermaine and the White Sox, oh, no. Such are the horrors for those among the choppers and the chanters. Just when they thought it couldn’t get any worse after the Braves’ 18-inning meltdown in Houston for another October flop, it did.
The White Sox?
Oh, yes.
While the Braves have embarrassed themselves for a decade in search of a second world championship despite an unprecedented 14 straight division titles, the White Sox kept finding ways to win their first World Series in 88 years with the greatest of ease. That was opposed to the Braves struggling this month to keep from getting swept out of the division series by an inferior bunch of Astros.
If you’re counting, that’s five first-round collapses for the Braves in the last six years, including four straight.
In contrast, up popped the historically nothing White Sox, with a wacky manager, a tiny fan base and a roster dominated by guys not heading to the Hall of Fame anytime soon, and the White Sox still did what the Braves couldn’t do. You know, a Braves team with the esteemed Bobby Cox as manager, all of those choppers and chanters and potential Cooperstown folks, ranging from John Smoltz to both of the Joneses (Chipper and Andruw).
Worse for those choppers and chanters, this White Sox thing comes after the Red Sox won their first World Series in 86 years, and the Red Sox did so as a wild card. Speaking of wild cards, the Florida Marlins were such a thing when they preceded the Red Sox as world champions. The Anaheim Angels had the same distinction along the way to taking it all for the 2002 season.
So much for the Braves’ consistent goodness. What they lack is instant greatness in the postseason. They never have a Geoff Blum come out of nowhere for them. They always have a Jim Leyritz come out of nowhere against them. Plus, in all of those years that the Braves had Cy Smoltz, Cy Maddux, Cy Glavine and others, they never resembled the White Sox in the postseason by having its starting pitchers complete three consecutive games, let alone four in a row. None of those White Sox starters were as gifted as the Braves’ Cy guys, by the way. And while the White Sox had nearly every bounce and call go their way, the Braves usually are so demoralized by other stuff (lack of key hits, shoddy fielding, base running woes, sliders that don’t slide) that a bounce here or a call there usually doesn’t matter.
This should matter to the choppers and the chanters: The White Sox’s Jermaine Dye just became David Justice.
Let’s start with Justice, the leader of those Braves teams from the start of their current run in 1991 through the only World Series that he helped them capture four years later with a clutch home run. Even so, he was traded after the 1996 season, and he promptly spent the rest of his career evolving into the new Mr. October. Not only was Justice shipped away back then, but so was Dye, along with his wonderful promise. This is the same Dye who just was named the most valuable player of the World Series.
Oh, brother. What else would you expect for the choppers and the chanters whose October already was ruined by Braves officials long before Halloween? No way they should lose Leo Mazzone, only the greatest pitching coach in history. Yes, he’s going to the Baltimore Orioles to join manager Sam Perlozzo, his best friend. Yes, he is more than doubling the salary he had with the Braves. And, yes, according to Braves general manager John Schuerholz, he didn’t try to negotiate a new deal with Mazzone, because Schuerholz said Mazzone didn’t ask for one.
The thing is, whenever Mazzone spoke about the influence of Braves manager Bobby Cox on his life, his eyes thickened with moisture. He loved Cox, and he loved the Braves. If you’re running the Braves, you make Mazzone the strongest offer you can, and then you make him refuse it. The Braves didn’t do that.
Now Leo is gone, the White Sox are sitting on baseball’s throne, and Jermaine is wearing the crown.
Oh, well.
Permalink | Comments (62) | Categories: Terence Moore
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By golden tornado
October 28, 2005 10:00 PM | Link to this
terrance all this is really old news and you are just piling on dude. give it up to be original. did you hear they might have a football program at notre dame?
By lawton
October 28, 2005 10:43 PM | Link to this
arent the braves the same organization that declined to make a deal for barry bonds back around 1992 when he was trying to become a brave? thought so, no wonder they dont have but 1 championship ring. cant have dion sanders AND barry bonds on the same team, too much brotherly love.
By Joseph Allen McWhorter
October 29, 2005 12:14 AM | Link to this
Terrance, I agree with your article and at this point, I am just so frustrated and disgusted with the Braves continous number of flops in October that in 2006, I hope they finish around fourth place in their division. At least that way we wouldn’t even have to worry about tolerating the torture of watching them produce another October flop. It just seems like to me at this point that Mr. Schuerholtz is more detrimental to the Braves organization than he is helpful. He has foolishly traded away too many key leaders for the Braves who were clutch October performers. Like you have mentioned, Jermaine Dye, David Justice, Marquis Grissom, to name a few. I just think at this point, many Atlantans probably share the same kind of sentiments that I do regarding the Braves. I mean, why win the division and make yet another postseason appearance next year if it is only going to produce an early first round exit in the playoffs? I will be pulling for the Braves to be the wild card team next year myself. Screw a division title! The wild card team obviously has more success in the postseason!! Good article!!
By doc
October 29, 2005 12:36 AM | Link to this
i would rather have francoeur in right field any day than dye who has had a very good but injury plagued career to date. i am pleased he had his day in the sun with all the trials he had but he has had one really good series and got cudos to go along with the fact he is a good articulate guy. justice didnt exactly do more than be a starnot a player after he left and had a short career as a quick flame out. in other blogs people mentioned the royals and how they were so good in the seventies and eighties and now cant field a team about the same time as the braves were ascending. what was the common denominator. yeah john schuerholtz, not happen stance. many fans still have the loserville attitude that we achieved in the pre js era but not as many as you think. jam did you see the same season that most did or did you just wake up like tm did?
as far as the barry comments, he might not have met his roid destiny without going to the bay area. i dont think he would have been the playa he is today without that journey. i dont think we missed out on anything with barry as he hasnt gotten the big ring in his career and only fell into one series while at least the braves made it to the dance. if you dont get to the dance you cant do nothing.
By Damian
October 29, 2005 02:00 AM | Link to this
Mr.Moore is a rarity in Atlanta and America. He’s one of the very few African Americans who cares about Baseball anymore.
By Chop Chop
October 29, 2005 03:12 AM | Link to this
Justice was great in Game 6 in ‘95, especially for calling out the fans and then backing up his talk with a Series-clinching homer, but he was only a career .224 postseason hitter. Chipper and Andruw both have higher averages than that, strangely enough. McGriff was superb in the postseason, as were Grissom and Lemke.
As for Dye, his numbers in ‘96 actually aren’t too far off of Francoeur’s from this past season, although he played in considerably more games. Dye was traded and brought back Michael Tucker and Keith Lockhart, which eventually opened right field up for guys like Brian Jordan, Reggie Sanders, Sheffield and J.D. Drew down the road. In other words, trading Dye didn’t hurt the Braves too much. Besides, how many guys stay with teams for nine seasons anymore?
As for Mazzone, the Braves will be alright. I’m surprised the guy hasn’t left before. It’s a testament to the loyalty that Leo had to the Braves that he didn’t leave in the past, especially considering his low pay. Instead, he left for a perfect situation for himself and his family. Not many people get that opportunity.
By doc
October 29, 2005 07:35 AM | Link to this
thanks for some information instead of the conjecture of how great it “appeared to be” chop chop. it takes some effort but keeps delusion out of the picture. some people live in the past and fail to see the pleasure of today.
the white sox had a good year, fabulous year but as an organization who can consistantly bring a good product they have spent madly and failed miserably fot the most part through the past 15 years. i personally remember the last time they were in the series with ted klusewski at first luis and nellie for the dp. wgst broadcast their games and as a fourth grader loved listening to their games but geez they have stunk it up ever since.
the white sox got lightening in a bottle just like the most recent winners of the series and that is hard to “build” for or in the case of nyyanks spend for. tm enjoy the fact the white sox won without having to make a story around the braves, just isnt necessary and the conjecture is that if dye was here he would have made the difference is what i would expect from a fourth graders skills at reasoning.
By Gritz Blitz
October 29, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this
Braves will be limited for the next 3 years due to three large contracts- Chipper, Andruw, & Smoltz. Chipper’s health & performance are unreliable and besides, he is un-tradable. Andruw just had a career year but questions about his consistency still exist. Smoltz will and should be a Brave for life- no questions asked- but he is getting older. Having said all this, 47% of the Braves payroll is tied up in three guys. It will be hard to build a WS championship caliber team with 53% of the payroll feeding 90% of the team.
If all trades were possible, I would drop Chipper as quickly as he dropped his bat in the NLDS. Smoltz is a keeper if nothing more than to preserve his intangibles. I would entertain trades on Andruw but would not bite on one unless a phenomenal deal came was offered. At some point, the Braves will have to pay the rookies market value and it will be tough to keep them given the aforementioned committments.
By MBATL
October 29, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop beat me to the punch on the legend of David Justice. He was a talented player, no doubt, who had 1 huge hit in the WS, but like CC said, his postseason numbers, especially after he left the Braves, are modest. And as I recall, he was generally a bit of a malcontent (not that it’s a popularity contest, but I don’t recall him being praised for his hustle or his attitude either)
Dye is a nice player who’s made 1 allstar team and won 1 gold glove. Great that he’s contributed to a title, and good for him. But come on, do you really think he’s such a “difference maker?”
Also, TM, seems to me that you’re at once criticizing the Braves’ pitching strategy (with the 3 Cy’s as you call them) and then insist we should have gone to great lengths to re-sign Leo.
By True Braves Fan
October 29, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this
That is the worst, most negative column of trash I have ever read. I can’t believe you live in the same city and work for the same newpaper as Danforth and Outlar did and Bisher does. The AJC has hit rock bottom with this.
By MBATL
October 29, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this
Oh God, I just had a flashback to the mid-90’s. Does anyone recall that Justice REFUSED to hit the cutoff man!
By Salt
October 29, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this
Braves fans, don’t let sports writers influence your opinion of the Braves. Yes, it would be great to advance beyond the first round of the playoffs, but the Braves have been for fourteen years a consistent winner. That is a remarkable acheivement and one worth celebrating without the “but they’ve only won one championship” rejoinder. Terry Moore says that the Braves were embarassed. I think they would rather be the Braves than the Royals, Devil Rays or Padres any day. I think sports writers stress winning it all because they don’t know how to judge a sports team except by championships. They don’t really know baseball well enough to appreciate the playing of the game day-in and day-out, so they focus on winning. They seem to say, “If you don’t have the championship rings, you are not all that good.” Oh, yeah, tell that to Ernie Banks or Carl Yastrzemski.
By True Braves Fan
October 29, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this
Those positive loyal fans of the Braves and Atlanta say, “Isn’t it great that the Bravaes have WON 14 straight Division Titles?” Those negative fans(?)of the Braves and Atlanta (and obviously wish they were somewhere else) say, “Oh woe are the Braves, they have only won one World Series.” Some people see the glass half full, others see it half empty.
By Matthew
October 29, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this
TBF, basically, it goes like this.
You are either happy with failure, or you’re not.
When a team loses to a team it has no business losing to (‘91, ‘93, ‘96, ‘97, ‘98, ‘00, ‘02, ‘03, ‘04, and now we find that the ‘stros weren’t really that good either) that just about every person on this earth not a delusional Braves fan would consider that a failure.
Winning 14 Divisions in a row means nothing.
People remember and bestow accolades on Champions, not the fake championships Bobby Cox says we should all be happy with.
You know something, as much as I hate the Yankees, I love Derek Jeter. I wish we had a team full of guys like Jeter, who offer no excuses for failure. The Yankees used to have a team full of those guys. Paul O’Neil. David Cone. Jimmy Key. Joe Girardi. Jim Leyritz. When they had those kind of guys, and that kind of chemistry, they won 4 WS Championships. When they started pimping out their team to brightest free agents in the sky, they screwed themselves. Giambi, Sheff, and now, A-Fraud. They were all full of bulls—t excuses (like Bobby Cox and CJones) after the latest Yankee collapse. But not Jeter. He called this year, in which the Yankees set the AL record for most divisions won in a row (something you’re oh so proud of, TBF over here with the Braves), a complete an utter failure.
Do we here the Braves or their coaches saying that?
No. Instead we get a whole lot of bulls—t excuses from a bunch of no-account losers.
Accept for John Smoltz.
And that is the difference between rational people, TBF, and the delusional Braves fans, who seem to buy the bulls—t and love it like it’s jello.
You’re a spoon-fed sheep.
Succeess in this world is judged by who finishes on top.
Not who sort of, kind of finishes close to the top, or in the top 8.
Does anyone remember or care that the Bills are the only team to appear in 4 straight Super Bowls?
No.
They remember that no one has lost that many in a row.
But Braves fans… they’re eating up that bulls—t, and still believe it’s orange jello.
And I HATE agreeing with Terence Moore. I believe he’s a reprehensible human being. A reverse-racist who is the worst kind of opportunist, on par with the the unReverand Jesse Jackson.
But in this he is right.
No one else in the Atlanta media has the balls to say this. They buy the bulls—t, too. Because they like Cox, or simply because they’re scared of his legendary quick temper when asked the true, tough questions (banning reporters for life), they refuse to ask him why.
Why, Bobby, did you take Bielecki out?
Why, Bobby, did you have Liebrandt pitch to Puckett?
Why, Bobby, were you too busy b*** about a horrible strike zone, instead of telling your guys to stop being stubborn idiots and adjust?
Why, Bobby, did we lose to the Padres?
These are questions that in any other city, would have been asked of Bobby Cox.
But not in Atlanta.
The only thing I find more reprehensible in sports journalism, they only thing that boils my blood more than the lack of journalistic integrity when it comes to Bobby Cox and the Braves and their historic run of choking when tio matters the most in Atlanta, is the a— kissing parade that everyone has been throwing for the Urban Myth this year, specificaly by SI.com and Stewart Mandel.
Anyway, it’s all a matter of deluding yourself.
You want to believe the bulls—t that Bobby Cox is spoonfeeding you… fine. That’s your perogative.
But I know, deep down, that a part of you knows you’re wrong.
Otherwise, you wouldn’t respond with such vitriol to guys like me, Carrol, and whomever else believes like us, and who you usually attribute to me a the ghost blogger or something. Which is really funny, by the way.
Anyway, the game has started, and I’ve written enough.
By Salt
October 29, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this
Matthew, You have proven my point. You do not seem to know enough about the game of baseball to discern and appreciate when it is played well. Therefore, you only look at championships. Recent history (droughts, curses and wild cards) affirm how hard it is to win it all and how much of a crap shoot with mediocre teams getting hot at the right time. Even if winning is the only thing, the Braves are the most consistent winnners in baseball since 1991. But if you want to have heartburn and miss the sheer enjoyment of appreciating a fine team and organization year after year, that’s you’re problem. I live for this!
By doc
October 29, 2005 06:03 PM | Link to this
some folks are vitriol, so they cant experience anything else.
jeter is great but when was the last time he was on a world series winning team? it hqas been a while so i guess he isnt the difference. again winning the world series with this format is catching lightening in a bottle at the right time. when anyone gets that formula right you can sell it to steinbrenner for millions. until then recognize the playoffs are like the nascar end if the year formula or a second season where the regular season means nothing, especially, when the all star game decides who is the home team and there is no significant penalty for being a wild card. winning in the regular season gets one no reward.
some people have agendas rather than use reason for each situation, recognize it as such. sadly, it is sounding like nothing more than a vitriolic worn out tape without much imagination.
By MBATL
October 29, 2005 06:12 PM | Link to this
Well said, Doc. As to having a team full of players like Jeter, I think we would all agree to that. Just gotta find ‘em, and pay ‘em (minor details).
By bookie
October 29, 2005 07:49 PM | Link to this
Does Mr. Moore remember Mr. October, nee Jermaine Dye, running into Marquis Grissom causing Marguis to drop a fly ball that largely led to the loss to the Yankees in ‘96? I do.
By TD
October 29, 2005 08:22 PM | Link to this
If the postseason was a true “crapshoot” the Braves would have won more than one world series. In a true “crapshoot” the odds would eventually allow a team that consistently makes the postseason win more than one WS or least get beyond the first round of the playoffs. Joe Morgan, who knows a few things about baseball, championships, and MVPs basically said the Marlins are more successful than the Braves because they have won TWO WS titles, but NO division titles. If you live for this, maybe you need to get a life.
By TD
October 29, 2005 08:25 PM | Link to this
HEY TM! GREAT ARTICLE
By Salt
October 29, 2005 08:30 PM | Link to this
Are you angry, TD? I enjoy good baseball. Why don’t you try enjoying it? Learn about probabilities, not Vegas odds, and be happy! Joe Morgan, Don Sutton and Tim McCarver know everything, so I should be quiet now.
By MBATL
October 29, 2005 09:42 PM | Link to this
I’m a disappointed Dawg fan today, but need to call on some Tech grad to do some work on this “crapshoot” thing. I don’t know the math. I’m one of those who say that the postseason is a crapshoot. I never meant it quite literally, but it would be interesting to know the numbers.
So, tech grad: what ARE the odds of (1) getting to the postseason (I’m guessing 4 teams out of 16 in each league) ; (2) then winning the NLDS or ALDS; (3) winning the LCS; and (4) winning the WS.
I could do some simple math, but I think the long shot of the first calculation affects the odds on the 2nd, etc. Seems like I studied some of this at UGA but never had a need to use it til now. Techhies, take your shots!
Don’t really expect anyone to do this, but if you do, Cool!
By doc
October 29, 2005 10:06 PM | Link to this
mbatl sorry about the loss thought you guys were going to pull it out, bees hung in there. hope we can do the same against wake and uva so we have a bit of confidence going into the final so you dont run over us. miami is probably a wash.
catching lightening in a bottle is an attempt to say the same thing as a crapshoot without the mathematical gyrations. statistics are sort of worhtless in this situation as the only thing that feeds the monster you are dealing with is numero uno. basically baseball doesnt want to reward its best team or encourage teams aggressively pursuing excellence once the flag is captured by giving more home games to the one with the most victories or better travel schedules or doing what the nfl does which is to make it more improbable for a non-title winner to make it to the final game. generally it doesnt matter how you play the game in may or june but who you can latch onto for the final run for the roses.
i prefer to see good baseball first then worry about championships and that is what the braves have delivered, a really good product which is fun to watch. if the flag is all one is interested in then they probably dont know much about the game nor its intracacies beyond the superficial and NO ONE CAN HELP THEM OR RESCUE THEM from their ignorance even reasoning with statistics. maybe at some point they will become enlightened like those aj detractors that finally realized how lost they were and missed a really good singular performance appreciated by his peers as they elected him mvp. again, there are some you can help others you cant, catch my drift.
now get over your disappointment of today because the dawgs are going to need to lick the wounds to get ready to beat the out of state tigers.
By MBATL
October 29, 2005 10:18 PM | Link to this
Doc, congrats to the Jackets (and as I know you understand, those words don’t come easily!). I’m of course being a little facetious about the statistical analysis. Yeah, whether you call it a “crapshoot” or “lightning in a bottle”, it’s kind of out the manager’s control. I’m just addressing those who say that “1 out of 14 is terrible”.
The key is to get there; and oh by the way, to enjoy a good baseball team on the way. I agree!
By Jim
October 29, 2005 10:22 PM | Link to this
Bobby Knight said it best, I believe, back in 1987 during a pre-game chat with his Indiana Hoosier Basketball team before their thrilling one-point victory over Syracuse that gave him his third NCAA Basketball title as a coach:
“Nobody remembers you if you finish second.”
ENOUGH SAID!!!!!
By Matthew
October 29, 2005 10:23 PM | Link to this
Doc,
If you actually read what I said, you’d see that I offer the explaination for why the Yankees haven’t won a WS since 2001. So, do me a favor, and read the answer to that question in my original blog.
As for me, I’m sorry if I want more for this baseball team. I only want what should have been. This team has choked, yes, choked away way too many opportunities. As has been said, even in a game of craps, 1/14 odds are pretty bad.
And this whole “crapshoot” bulls—t is just that… bulls—t. It’s more bulls—t excuse making from a bunch of bulls—t artists like Bobby Cox and CJones and yes, even Schurholtz.
The only one not saying things like crapshoot, great season, not disapointed is John Smoltz.
John Smoltz is a Derek Jeter. And he’s the only one they Braves have on this team full of bulls—t excuse makers.
Doc and the rest, swallow the bulls—t if you must.
And this whole we’re okay, they’re okay, you’re okay, we’re all winners, division titles are okay, losing to teams you aren’t supposed to lose to in a million years is okay because it’s a “crapshoot”, well, it’s just crap. Guess what… I live in America. I love capitalism, the thought that the cream rises to the top, the notion that we all make our own way, and if we are the best, we are recognized. If we’re not the best, well, then guess what? You pull yourself up again, and dammit, you try and try and try until you prevail. And you do not, under any circumstances, offer any excuses.
This whole notion you some of y’all have, this accepting of anything less than winning it all, the excuse making and the accepting of these bulls—t excuses when this team loses when they’re not supposed to (and once again, that was in ‘91, ‘93, ‘96, ‘97, ‘98, ‘00, ‘02, ‘03, ‘04, and yes, ‘05) well, that is unamerican.
It’s downright socialistic of y’all.
In this life, all that counts is number one.
Number 2 is the first loser.
And number 4 or 5, which the Braves have routinely finished here lately when they should be finishing much higher is made that much worse by their bulls—t excuse making.
Maybe the fans would respect Booby Cox more, or CJones more, if instead of making their annual bulls—t excuses, they stand up like men, and say, “No, this season was not a success, we didn’t win the World Series, and not doing so is a failure, and failure is unacceptable to me,” and then look at the reporter like he’s crazy for even asking you a question like that, because they should know better.
That is what Derek Jeter did.
This is not what anyone in the whole entire Braves organization not named John Smoltz has said over the last 14 years.
David Justice would say things like this.
All we have left is Smoltz.
He’s the only one not full of bulls—t.
And you know what, it’s infected all of these great rookies.
How great would it have been to hear from players in their first postseason tell all of us fans that they view anything less than a World Series Championship as a failure, and failure is unacceptable to them?
It would have rekindled a very low-burning fire in my heart for this team.
But no, we fans heard no such reasuring statements from Francour or McCann. We heard the same mush-mouthed bulls—t excuses that we’ve all come to expect from Bobby, CJones, and the rest of the boys not named Smoltz.
And you want to accept that as fans?
No wonder Atlanta fans are seen as the worst in pro sports.
Boston fans (which I would classify as the best) don’t have to put up with excuses making from their teams. I dare you to name one time when Curt Schilling, Tom Brady, Johnny Damon, or Bill Belichick has ever, ever offered an excuse for not winning when they should have.
Thank God for the Falcons and the stand up men who play for and run that organization. They offer no excuses, just promises that they will do everything in their power to get better.
If they don’t, and they happen to choke away a win, well, at least we won’t have to hear any bulls—t excuses. They’ll be stand up men about it, and say that next year starts tomorrow, and they will do everything to bring a championship to their fans.
So that’s it, I guess. The accepting of the bulls—t excuses from Bobby, CJones, and Co. makes Atlanta baseball fans what they are.
By doc
October 29, 2005 10:29 PM | Link to this
mbatl you cant help them find their way, just feel blessed you know the real deal along with a few others
btw tm wont be as hormonal this week as the beloved irish just signed up charlie through 2016. all is safe in the world now.
peace
By MBATL
October 29, 2005 10:41 PM | Link to this
Matthew, God I like your passion, even if I don’t agree. A couple of questions, though:
Who SHOULD be the Braves new GM when we run JS out? And who should replace BC as manager? These are NOT rhetorical questions…I just assume that if you want to throw out guys who have been (at least) pretty successful, you have some idea as to who should replace them. At least a short list?
And, Blank, Vick and Mora are an impressive group of guys, and I’m a Falcons fan, but they haven’t won any championships yet.
By doc
October 29, 2005 11:10 PM | Link to this
matthew my grandfather once said those that use vulgarity only express their lack of a vocabulary. and yes i agree with you on what made the yankees a good team through those years.they had contact hitters that put pressure on the opposing pitchers by wearing their arms out taking them deep into the count, shortened games to seven innings with one of the best money relievers ever especially in the playoffs in rivera, among other things posted in earlier accounts.
unfortunately, the modern era of fan only looks at stupid stats like risp’s etc to define success or world series won. your one for fourteen stat makes no sense either in that context. to use that denominator is one that you choose or there is one way to use that denominator that only the braves can use as they were really 14 for 14. no other team has been 100 % if you are speaking of getting to the playoffs or winning a division title. again that is a hundred percent. now if you speak in terms of 14 years how many teams in baseball have been better for world seires titles, what two or three. gee that is two out of what 32?
now take the denominator based on the last time the white sox won it all makes it 1 in 46 years, then for boston gee 1 in what 90 years. pretty bad statistics if you ask me. now what do you really mean?
all i am trying to say is there is a lot to enjoy in life and baseball beyond winning the world series, besides spring training is right around the corner, what will it be then? gee we’re going to be the same o’ll braves get to the playoffs and lose, andruw couldnt possibly do it two years in a row or man i hope to see baseball as exciting and fun as it was last year? your choice create your own misery or enjoyment. maybe your enjoyment is down mouthing contiuously. as stated some have their agenda and that is fine. i know i have mine. it is to look forward to seeing and appreciating good baseball because i grew up while watching some really awful teams play when you had to wait for another team to come to town to see good defense, a good pitcher or a really great prospect (dodgers). guess what i dont have to think about that now, i just go and enjoy it all 162 games a year as a braves fan, last year, the last FIFTEEN years and hopefully, god willing next year. i would be pleased to have that opportunity for the forseeable future as i pull for the braves to catch lightening in the bottle with a song, a gesture, a theme, a t shirt or a great and dominant pitching staff, one stand tall leader, whatever the magic needed is.
now please dont tell me again that all is needed is to hear one silly ballplayer say how much it hurts to not win or how they cant accept losing.you really dont believe it is that easy do you? if you dont think they didnt feel the failure that explains maybe the simplicity of your arguments as you probably never played the game at a significant level.
By Andrew
October 30, 2005 12:03 AM | Link to this
Thanks T Moore - you have proven once more that you are an idiot. I love the Braves and will always root for them. The Braves have not ‘embarassed’ me at all over the last decade. You have. Why don’t you move to Chicago and write about you’re beloved White Sox? Beat it !
By Kudzu
October 30, 2005 07:35 AM | Link to this
TERENCE, YOU’RE AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THE CITY OF ATLANTA, NOT THE BRAVES, FROM WHENCE DO YOU HAIL?
By True Braves Fan
October 30, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this
Folks, maybe it is our fault that TM is still around. Let’s try ignoring his columns, and when he gets no comments, just maybe the AJC will have him hit the highway…Worth a try…
By MD
October 30, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this
Last I checked, the Braves have exactly as many world titles as the White Sox and Red Sox in the last 14 years. One. That’s more than the Cardinals (and the overhyped LaRussa), Mets, Orioles, Phillies, Cubs, A’s, Giants, Dodgers, and a slew of other teams that spend millions of dollars and never even make it to the playoffs, let alone win a championship. I’ll take the consistency of the Braves any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
By Matthew
October 30, 2005 11:24 AM | Link to this
Good questions, MBATL, tough, but fair questions to ask, and here it is.
I don’t know this new pitching coach from Adam.
But, when Smoltzie retires, and if he isn’t given permission to be the carte blance pitching coach, then whomever is running the team is crazy.
Julio, I love you, but it’s time to lay down the lumber and pick up the fungo bat and start imparting your vast knowledge of hitting upon our impressionable youths as the organization bids Terry Pendleton an overdue farewell.
Bobby, so long, farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, adieu!
In your place we can bring in who?
There are many tantalizing names.
Frank Robinson is one. Who knows if he’d be interested, but odds are, he’s gone when Washington gets a new owner(s), which would be the wrong thing.
With a veteran team in need of an a—kicking, which the Braves are, a dose of Frank Robinson’s no-nonsense style is something which is needed.
IN that same vein, Lou Pineilla may be a good fit for a team like this, for a few years before he gets burned out. Now, I can just hear the Bobby Cox lovers now. Sweet Lou, you’re crazy, he’s only won one WS as well, and his record is worse than Cox’s. Well, what I am advocating is a change in culture for this team. This culture of being okay with not winning it all. This culture of bulls—t excuse making that pervades the Braves clubhouse, and infects every player. You can’t win it all in a culture like that, and Sweet Lou is just the guy to kick CJones in the a*. Even better is if CJones can’t handle his needed a* kicking and demands a trade. He’s not the kind of leader you need if you want to win it. You need a Derek Jeter type. Someone who plays every day who doesn’t accept or give excuses. SO don’t blow your wires over me even having the audacity to mention Sweet Lou. Sometimes, mixing it up is advantageous to a team. Remember Houston two years ago going out and getting the well-travelled and unproven Phil Garner over a failed Booby Cox protoge (big surprise), the renown bulls—t artist, Jimy Williams. Sometimes, a kick in the a— works, and that is what this team needs.
I also think some of Joe Torre’s no-nonsense bench coaches would do well. Joe Girardi, who’s as stand up as they come. He’d never allow anyone on this team to make bulls—t excuses, or make them himself. Chris Chambliss might be a good pick as well.
I would not advocate keeping hiring any of the Braves coaches, as they too are well versed in bulls—t excuse making (see: Jimy Williams).
As for GM, I don’t have much of a problem with Schurholtz, even though his genius is overexagerated, though not to the extant of Cox’s supposed genius. His last few trades, free agent aqcuisitions have been horrible. His need to trade away valuable talent for crappy veterans is a liability. Jermaine Dye for Keith Lockhart and Michael Tucker?
So what it’s like with Schurholtz is that he relies on some great scouts to evaluate the talent he drafts, but then ignores their recomendations when he wants to trade for a Lockhart or a Kolb.
I’ll be honest, I don’t keep up with who is the great assistant GMs.
But there it is. I advocate, strongly that the Braves need a change in culture in the clubhouse. They need a manager to come in here with a big broom, and sweep out the garbage, and let it be known to the players he’s stuck with (CJones) that bulls—t excuses don’t fly in his clubhouse. He won’t give them or accept them, and neither will his players. And if they do, consequences will be had, no matter how veteran you happen to be.
It’s the only way to save the young guys who are being indoctrinated in this art of making bulls—t excuses. It’s the only way to bring back the multitude of fans who are sick and tired of hearing these players making bulls—t excuses for their failures and for accepting anything less than perfection. And, most importantly, it’s the only way this team will ever win another World Series.
That’s right, I’m saying it.
This organization will never win another World Series as long as Bobby Cox is managing this team.
As for my use of dubious colorful language, excuse me if I am unapologetic. As a former active duty Marine, I learned very quickly that the best way to get a point across is to use the frankest language possible. Frank language is another expression for truthfull language. And I’m sorry, but bulls—t is bulls—t is bulls—t. Nothing is going to change that, even if you don’t want to acknowlege it for what it is. You can call it bullcrap. Or bullpoop. Or whatever. But at the end of the day, the excuses coming out of that front office and that clubhouse are bulls—t.
By Harold
October 30, 2005 12:05 PM | Link to this
Nice article, but several fallacies: 1. You have to win first, then you get to the playoffs. 2. The same players who batted in clutch situations and got you to the playoffs, should be able to get you THROUGH the playoffs. If they don’t, do you get players who WILL NOT get you to the playoffs? 3. I will place John S. record up against that of a sports journalist any time. 4. Before you crown Jermaine Dye as the royal emperor, tell me why ALL of his other teams did not get to the World Series? What was this - his fourth? 5. If you’re going to Monday morning quarterback, do it every Monday, and not just when the Series is over. Then your criticism MIGHT carry some weight.
By Learned Hand
October 30, 2005 12:06 PM | Link to this
I wish people would stop comparing the Braves to the New York Yankees. The analogy just doesn’t translate well.The Yankees are in a unique atmosphere of their own making.
The difference in payroll alone is reason why the Yankees can be said to be a failure, while the Braves spending some $120 million less cannot.
The Rivera factor cannot be understated. Better than 90% of the time he get’s the job done, whether it’s 1/3 inning or two, whether it’s 2 or 3 days pitched in a row.Give us Rivera and let’s see what happens. I’m betting 96, and 97 would have turned out differently.
Lastly, why does everyone look at the Braves situation as an either or proposition?
We can be proud of the consistency and the acheivement of winning 14 striaght division titles. We can also be miserable over that success having produced only 1 World Series Championship.
Life is most often a hue of gray, and sports is nothing but pure drama.That’s why we watch, why we care, and why we do things like make provocative comments on sports blogs.
But to those who insist that anything less than a World Series Championship is a “failure” for any team. I would say that if that is so, I would rather take my team’s “failure” with a division title any day.
The dirty little secret of the Braves so-called “failures” is that it does seem to allow those World Series-or-Bust types to obviously derive pleasure from taking such a position as well tisk-tisk the rest of us.
By doc
October 30, 2005 12:17 PM | Link to this
matthew …. oh, i get it. hire a few good men, that is all we need.
i think you answered that one several times with the same word, over and over and over. dont need to repeat it.
By Salt
October 30, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this
One more time:
Speaking the truth in love, I see those who are obsessed with championships lacking in a true appreciation for the nuances of well-played baseball.
Those of us who do not obsess over the Ring (my precious) enjoy 162 games with the Braves, year-in and year-out.
And we have more fun.
By Matthew
October 30, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this
Doc, not just a few good men.
But men who can get the job done.
Bobby Cox has had his chance to prove that he can, and he’s failed miserably.
Herm Edwards says you play to win the game. You play to win the Championship. Not the Division Title, the little flags you hang up. But for the ring, Salt.
If you can enjoy another fruitless season and you can tolerate all of the excuse makers, than that is your perogative.
When I do poorly on a Human G&D Test, I have no one to blame but myself. What would my Prof say if I said, well, the two weeks prior to the test, when we were covering the material, I did a damn good job taking notes. I studied the material and came into the test with a good feeling. I just came up against some tough questions, but that doesn’t mean the two weeks of study were a waste, so can’t I get credit for that?
She would look at me like I’m a crazy lunatic, and that is how I feel about Cox and CJones and Co.
No, you play to win the game.
Everything else doesn’t matter.
If I make a C on a test, I get a C on the test. The weeks of review doesn’t count.
The Division Title doesn’t count.
The only thing which does, is the World Series.
In football, no one cares about who wins divisions.
Only about who finishes first. How wins the game with all of the roman numerals in it.
Why must it be so different in baseball?
If the Dawgs win the SEC Title, they’ll be remembered.
No one talks about the Dawgs finishing first in the SEC East in 2003, because they didn’t win the whole thing.
If you can devote yourself to this team for 162 games and yet another heart crushing October and not feel anything but peace, love, and happiness, and the complete ability to accept the bulls—t excuses they give you, Salt, for not winning when they should have, like I’ve said, that’s your perogative.
It is my perogative to expect what should be. This team should have beaten the Astros this year. This team should have shown a pulse in the postseason. It didn’t. This team is a perfect reflection of their manager. Awesome in the regular season, awful in the postseason.
By Tim
October 30, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this
Terrance, Who really cares what you have to say?
By MBATL
October 30, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this
Matthew, I love it when you cite a coach who has won NO titles as knowing more about it than one who has at least one. It’s real easy to say “you play for the ring”. What else would you say? Never heard Bobby say “let’s play for the NLDS.” At least cite Lombardi, or Belichek, Torre, Wooden or someone who’s done it successfully.
By doc
October 30, 2005 04:58 PM | Link to this
matthew, i guess it is where you are in life. i assure you every op that didnt go well i sat back, analyzed, beat myself up even when there was no way to have changed the outcome. in spectator sports i just dont go there anymore, dont need to, feel fulfilled in many other ways and truly feel fulfilled just experiencing the play on the field.
really does it matter if it is win this year, next year, three years ago or coming up in ten years. it really doesnt make any difference in the long run, i suspect. i also know that no matter what i do i dont have any control over whether the braves win or lose except maybe in the positive vibes i let off to help them manifest what we all hope for.
i just take exception to people that bad mouth and take other people down that they dont know because for some reason they feel entitled.yes i have done just that but continue to try and be more cognizant of it before i do it. sure we can question motives, expectations, intention or decisions but if you havent been there side by side with them to feel the heat you really need to think twice. as a marine i am sure that you have strong feelings for those who do their job to the best of their abilities to make the world safe for us. i feel the same way and i am sure if someone starting really degrading them and calling them slop you might have a different appreciation of the mess but in essence that is what you do in your harrangues.
look go for it, ultimately you will probably find out about stress management one way or the other. i guess we do have a significant philosophical difference. like you i will continue to stand firm in my beliefs and reasoning as well.
peace
By TD
October 30, 2005 05:28 PM | Link to this
Salt, I do enjoy seeing well-played baseball and I thoroughly enjoyed seeing the Chicago White Sox World Series victory. I did not enjoy seeing the Braves blow a huge lead in game 4 against the Astros (the team that couldn’t hit, if I remember) and go down in flames once again. I was speaking of probabilities, not Vegas odds. If you are rolling dice (a crapshoot) you are playing probabilities
By Jim
October 31, 2005 09:23 AM | Link to this
The only Floptober I see is this article. What a waste of time. Try to earn your paycheck and write something crative for a change. When it could have been ghost written by a blogger it doesn’t belong in the newspaper. Go read any of Furman’s articles for pointers.
By RRR
October 31, 2005 11:37 AM | Link to this
Learned Hand: “Lastly, why does everyone look at the Braves situation as an either or proposition?
We can be proud of the consistency and the acheivement of winning 14 striaght division titles. We can also be miserable over that success having produced only 1 World Series Championship.”
Amen brother!!!
btw: I miss my Braves games….How long until spring training? ;)
By Mark
October 31, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this
TM:
Nice research…tiny White Sox fan base. We had over 2.4 million fans attend games this year and had over 1.5 million downtown for a parade on Friday.
Go Sox!
By brewerfaninATL
October 31, 2005 12:40 PM | Link to this
Those of you who keep ripping the Braves because of their post-season failures need a harsh dose of reality! I’m a diehard Milwaukee Brewers fan and I have and will continue to stick by them. Do you realize that we have not even been to the playoffs since 1982? Not just the World Series, but the PLAYOFFS! I know it gets frustrating losing in the first round, but a few breaks here or there it could have been different. Just step back for a minute and think to yourself, “We have won our division 14 times in a row!” Not even the Yankees can make that claim. I tell you, I would be in 7th heaven if my guys were even in the wild card race next year. I’m not asking for the World Series yet, but just a sniff of the playoffs…something that has eluded us for 23 years! Keep cheering for the Braves…this magnificent run is going to end sometime and then you’ll be yearning for the old days of 1991-2005, or 2006, or 2007! I’m not a big Braves fan but I have the upmost respect for them for what they have done!
By Chris
October 31, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this
Just remember one thing about Terence Lest: when the Braves were up 2-0 against the Yankees in the ‘96 Series, this guy wrote a column all but proclaiming the Series over, saying the Yankees were outmatched and the Braves winning the Series was a foregone conclusion. Already not a fan of Moore’s work, when I read this, I immediately thought, “We’re going to lose. Thanks, buddy. You just doomed us.” Well, you had things all wrong 9 years ago, and times haven’t changed.
Is he says letting Leo go was a horrible mistake, that probably means it will benefit us in the future. What did Justice really do after he left? Played on a bunch of playoff teams, but was never a key contributor. And we shouldn’t have gotten rid of Dye? Come on, now. I defy you to find one article written about Dye’s departure that predicted it would hurt the Braves. So yay, he gets a World Series MVP. He’s also a .272 career hitter with 697 RBI in 1184 at-bats. Not exactly setting the world on fire.
By Matthew
October 31, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this
Doc and Salt,
When did I degrade or whatever Bobby Cox or CJones?
I didn’t call them a—holes or bastards or whatever.
I called their excuse making b******, because that is what it is.
I’m sure that Bobby Cox is a fine guy, albeit one with a quick and terrible temper (as I am known to flash) when he gets perterbed.
I’m sure Chipper, while not the most intelligent guy around, is a fine hunter and drinking buddy to his friends.
But their excuses, and their wont to give nothing but excuses instead of confronting the truth of their situation is b******.
Derek Jeter could be the worst person in the world for all I know. He could leave the toilet seat up and sleep with 3 hookers a night. But the guy has my respect as a fan because he is a stand-up guy when asked the tough questions. And he is asked tough questions by his media. Not the softballs tossed around by the pitiful excuse for Atlanta media we have here.
Ever notice that not one person in the ATL media ever questions Cox on his litany of terrible postseason decisions and chokes? Remember that aside I had about his temper, that’s why. They’d be banned for life, and they know it.
Anyway, I deplore their always giving some bulls—t excuse for why they lose when they should have won handidly.
Not how good of a guy they are.
As long as they stay off of the police blotters, I don’t care (hello, Furcal).
And as for the guys like Warrick Dunn and John Smoltz, who are upstanding on th field and off the field, well, those are the kind of guys I’ll always like above the rest. They’re in a class of their own.
And in a sub-class would be the guys like Randy Moss and TO, who are deplorable on the field and off sometimes, but do some really great things for charity. But that’s a whole ‘nother topic. Suffice to say, I wouldn’t want either on the Falcons, but I give them props for giving back.
By bigbelly
October 31, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this
Few questions I would like someone to answer for me…1: Why do some of you(well many of you)hate Terrance Moore so much? Says the same things the other ajc writers say in their columns(Braves choke,Hawks suck, etc.).2: What makes him a “reverse racists”? 3: If you hate him so much, why continue to read his column and post a blog? I can’t stand Bill O’Reilly, so I don’t watch his show,knowing he’ll say something that will make me wanna throw somethin. Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not a big T-Moore fan and I haven’t read all of his articles. Which is why I would like to know; where’s the love? Educate me.
By Chris
October 31, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this
That should’ve been “Terence LESS.” Try to make a funny and screw it up.
By Chris
October 31, 2005 04:08 PM | Link to this
And it should’ve been 1184 games, not at-bats. Where’s my head today? Oh yeah, still fuming over Chan Gailey’s playcalling.
By doc
October 31, 2005 05:17 PM | Link to this
matthew, i dont think you would take it lightly if i said you were full of …. you might even think i was degrading you if i said your answers were ….. but i thought you did write just that. now maybe that isnt degrading to you but with your marine background i dont think i would like to challenge it and try it on you.
look won’t put words in you mouth but maybe you are tired of seeing complacency on the braves. that is maybe a bit more civil and probably isnt degrading anyone necessarily and may express your frustrations. just a thought to clarify. again if one has a limited vocabulary that he is willing to share he tends to end up spewing vulgarity. i do appreciate your intensity for your teams and in the setting of the braves share some of the passion but experience it differently.
as for the analogy to school and your teacher, im sure if she gave a poor effort you wouldnt quite tell her about it the way you do here as i dont think she would appreciate it or the vulgarity either. i dont imagine her critiques of your c work would be in that fromat either as she probably wouldn’t last to long in the system.
By matthew
October 31, 2005 11:38 PM | Link to this
Buddy, if you said I was full of s—t, that’s okay ;o).
I can give and take in equal ammounts.
I can understand if you don’t agree with me and think I’m full of s—t.
What I don’t want is for you to misunderstand me. Just trying to make myself clear.
In my mind, I’m not calling these guys bad or whatever. Just their propensity for bulls—t excuse making.
By doc
October 31, 2005 11:59 PM | Link to this
we say it differently and approach our teams as fans differently but are on the same side when it comes to baseball. now college football is different and if you want to fire cmr it is all right with me after last weekend. degrade him all you want and send him packing because his family doesnt need to hear it so we can even things up a bit for the big game after thanksgiving between the state rivals. take your best shots at him as my bees cant get to him.
be blessed matthew.
By Ron Roberts
November 1, 2005 10:25 AM | Link to this
I have to call some thoughts to question…
Matthew Cafaro wrote, earlier…
You are either happy with failure, or you’re not.
Who said anybody was “happy” with coming up short? I see frustrated faces in the Braves’ dugout when they bow out in the postseason. They tinker w/the lineup, the pitching, and they come back. The fans are FANS… they stick with their team, through good and bad. True fans, do, anyhow.
There’s more.
When a team loses to a team it has no business losing to (‘91, ‘93, ‘96, ‘97, ‘98, ‘00, ‘02, ‘03, ‘04, and now we find that the ‘stros weren’t really that good either) that just about every person on this earth not a delusional Braves fan would consider that a failure.
‘91: We start four kids (Smoltz, Glavine, Avery, Pete Smith) and Charlie Liebrandt and got to the World Series. You were disappointed?
‘00: The Yankees that SWEPT us were inferior?
We can quibble over the other years, and both make valid points about ‘em, but that’s baseball. The best team doesn’t always win, especially in a short series.
But this season? Uh, yeah, the Astros were a better team than the Braves. They had three stronger starters than ours (which were formidable, but not better), a better bullpen, and got their bats going when our ‘pen came in. We might’ve had a better starting eight, but weak bullpen pitching and starters that can’t OUT-duel theirs doesn’t win you many ballgames. Ask the Cardinals.
People remember and bestow accolades on Champions, not the fake championships Bobby Cox says we should all be happy with.
Actually, those who cover and play and manage the game are amazed that any team can do what the Braves have done for as long as they have. The Yankees, with all their spending, almost didn’t continue their eight year string going this year. But I really question your assetion that Bobby Cox said we should be happy with the division titles. When did he say we should be satisfied with that?
By Matthew
November 1, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this
Ronnie, Ronnie, Ronnie…
You belay your stupidity, my friend.
We are swept in ‘99, not ‘00.
This is why I left the ‘99 team off that list.
In 2000 we lost for the first time in the 1st round to a sub-par Cardinals team.
Check you facts, Ron, next time you try and bring me down.
Even doing that, I’m afraid, won’t give you any success in that endeavor.
By Ron Roberts
November 1, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this
You WONDER why so many people can’t stand you, Cafaro?
Is THAT why you don’t put your last name on your posts, anymore? Hope that folks won’t notice it’s YOU?!?!?
You smug b@stard. Good God, it was ONE of the years I pointed out. And I didn’t have to resort to calling you a moron, or label your thoughts as “stupidity,” to do it.
Grow the ** up, dude.
Folks, notice Matt jump on one inconsistency (which I’ll admit to… geez it was only FIVE YEARS AGO), but instead of having an intelligent, ADULT discussion about it, he goes the childish route.
You decided to do that rather than counter the entire post. Good call, Matt. Draw attention away from the REST of your lunacy. Brilliant. Works for Dubya, why not you?
By scott
November 1, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this
Ok, so basically the Braves would have more world series titles if they had more black players on the team? When they had Hank Aaron on the team, guess how many world series titles they won? ONE back in 1957 and he had some guy named Eddie Mathews hitting behind him, perhaps you’ve heard of him.
And for the reader who said Terrence Moore is one of the few people in America or Atlanta that cares about baseball, who cares? I don’t know anyone who cares about the NBA, black or white. That’s why the NBA’s ratings are a joke. And I hate to break it to you but baseball doesn’t really need the black population. They already have the white population and hispanic population. That’s by far the majority of the country. I mean when the worst rated World Series of all time has the type of ratings the NBA wishes it could have, you know there is something wrong with the NBA.
By Damian
November 2, 2005 03:35 AM | Link to this
Well Scott, maybe MLB does need more African American players. As more have chosen football, the NFL increased in popularity over the MLB the last 30 years.
And what’s a hispanic? That’s a political word, not a race. Many latino players are latin blacks, and their country men from poor nations can’t afford tickets. American latino’s are mostly Mexican and they mostly prefer soccer.
Baseball is mostly supported by Adult whites.
By Don
November 2, 2005 01:30 PM | Link to this
I have been a Braves fan since 1957 when they beat the hated Yankess in the World Series and Hank Aaron became one of my boyhood heros. Of course, this bond became even stronger when the Braves moved to Atlanta. Fast forward to 2005 - after 40 years the Atlanta Braves still own the only world championship of any professional sports team in Atlanta. They have won a world championship that several other teams in the major leagues have failed to capture, including the Astros. This team has played its heart out every season, including the post season only to become the victim of a more talented or hotter team in the postseason in more recent years. In spite of the recent disappointments, I still love the Braves and will always love the Braves. The Braves have given me and this city extraordinary excitement and pride over the past 14 years, even in losing. No other major league baseball team has shown anywhere near the consistency of this organization to put a contender together every year for the past 14 years. Think about where this city would be without the Braves? Remember Sports Illustrated claimed several years ago “Atlanta is not a baseball town”? Maybe it’s time we focus more on the positive instead of the negative.
By Don
November 2, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this
By the way, to Damian who said in his post that baseball is mostly supported by adult whites is probably stating the obvious since adult whites make up the majority of the population. Demographically, adult whites also probably have more disposable income to attend games which over an 81-game home season can get very expensive. However, I have seen greater numbers of African American fans attending the games over the years and I hope this is an indication of improving economic conditions as well as African American interest in the game of baseball.