AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2005 > October > 27 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USDye casts winning fate for Sox
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Mark Bradley
Houston — On the South Side of Chicago, there’s jubilation. On the North Side, there’s even more angst than usual. If they could bring themselves to watch Wednesday night’s Game 4, forlorn Cubs fans know now more than ever that the fates are arrayed against them.
Two years ago, the North Side Cubs lost an NLCS in large measure because a spectator — a lifelong Cubs rooter, of all people! — took a foul ball from Moises Alou’s grasp. On Wednesday night, the South Side White Sox won a World Series, their first since 1917, in large measure because shortstop Juan Uribe snatched a foul ball from the paws of an opposing crowd.
The Cubs fan’s anguished lament: “Where’s their Steve Bartman?”
And the Braves fan’s similar plaint: “Why’d we ever trade Jermaine Dye?”
The Braves keep losing in October because they can’t hit in October. A former Brave, wouldn’t you know, was the MVP of this World Series because he got the hit that got the Sox started — a homer off Roger Clemens in the first inning of Game 1 — and also the one that finished it. Dye’s simple single through the box drove home the only run of Game 4, the only run needed to subdue the beaten Astros, who’d given up the ghost in the elongated Game 3.
After three games won by Pale Hose homers, the clincher was a case study in Small Ball. It was scoreless after seven innings, Brandon Backe and Freddy Garcia having matched one another and overmatched both sets of hitters. Then Phil Garner, who had described his team’s Game 3 performance as “embarrassing,” pinch-hit for Backe with two out in the seventh. Jeff Bagwell, the Astro hero who is a shadow of his robust self, grounded out to end the inning, and now Garner turned to Brad Lidge.
It has been a frightful 10 days for the fearsome closer, who’s known as “Lights Out Lidge” in these parts. He surrendered game-losing homers to Albert Pujols and Scott Podsednik — hitters great and small — and now he couldn’t manage a clean inning with the season on the line.
Lidge was touched for a leadoff single by pinch-hitter Willie Harris, who’d had one postseason hit. Podsednik bunted Harris to second and, one out later, Dye sent a roller up the middle, the MVP-to-be clapping his hands as he ran to first base. “I wasn’t trying to do too much,” said Dye, who played for the Braves in the 1996 World Series but was traded to Kansas City in the Michael Tucker-Keith Lockhart deal the next spring. “I had a game plan.”
Too often the Braves lose because they simply hack away. Dye, who hit .438 in the Series, had a huge single off Roy Oswalt in the five-run rally that turned the interminable Game 3. Dye is a professional hitter, and professional hitters are at a premium come October.
The poor Astros, by way of contrast, came across as amateurish. They hit .203 in the Series, scoring one run and managing six hits in the last 19 innings. The Sox simply pitched around Lance Berkman, the one true Houston threat, and let the flailing Morgan Ensberg (.111) get himself out. It was a clinical performance by a clever team managed expertly by Ozzie Guillen, himself an erstwhile Brave.
“Fans in Chicago have showed so much patience,” Guillen said, “for what — 80 years?”
Eighty-eight, to be precise. A year after the Red Sox, who hadn’t won a title since 1918, broke through by sweeping the Cardinals, the White Sox, who hadn’t won it all since 1917, ended their drought by sweeping the Astros. From this we can only deduce: It’s a great time to be an American League team named after hosiery.
And it’s the worst possible time to be a Cubs fan.
Permalink | Comments (53) | Categories: Braves / MLB, Mark Bradley
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By Nicholas Irwin
October 27, 2005 02:12 AM | Link to this
I would like to congratulate the White Sox are on their victory. They were almost completely unbeatable this postseason. Their pitching was fantastic, they got timely hits, they were a great team. Truly they are deserving world champions. I don’t think anybody would have beaten the White Sox in this postseason. Not the way they played. The Braves were capable of beating the Astros and they could’ve beaten the overblown Cardinals as well, had they made it to that round, but given how well the White Sox played, the Braves wouldn’t have been able to beat them in the World Series.
By Carroll
October 27, 2005 07:56 AM | Link to this
Again, I hope everyone noticed the importance of heart, enthusiasm, and will to win in this WS. Case in point, the 9th inning pop foul down the left field line….incidentally in THE SAME EXACT SPOT as the one that Chumper gave no effort to catch in game 4….Uribe went diving into the stands to make the catch….Chumper wouldn’t even have had to do so, but gave up on it anyway.
Look folks, I’m not saying its ALL that matters…you still have to be a good, talented team…..BUT all eight teams that get to the playoffs are basically equal talent-wise. The thing that puts the champion over the edge is their will to win. It’s when NOBODY players like Crede and Perzenski become world beaters on the biggest stage! Yes the Braves bullpen sucked, but if they had heart and desire, they could’ve stepped it up and played above their abilities…the way the ChiSox did….the way Jim Brower did in extra innings of game 4….it CAN be done with the right attitude and desire. And that starts with the manager. But BC, CJ and The Braves just don’t have it anymore. They give great lip service to it, but it’s not something you can fake. This is why we need a pretty signficant shake up on this team or you can expect more of the same.
By Bart Di Giovanni
October 27, 2005 08:05 AM | Link to this
Congratulations to the White Sox! Too bad that “prime time” TV puts the World Series out of reach for most viewers - except maybe those that live on the West Coast. I remember when the WS was a day event - when the whole country was tuned in. Now, with the WS in prime time, the summer game is played in football weather; kids (future fans) can’t stay up to see any of the games since most games are played on school nights; most of us who work for a living, won’t stay up so we can get to our jobs in the morning; forget watching the game with friends because they’ll get to bed even later than their host. I suppose you could tape the game, but that means sequestering yourself from any sports news - knowing how the game turned out would ruin the viewing. Sometimes, doing things the old way - World Series day games - is better!
By Tim Franzen
October 27, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this
To Bart:
I said basically the same thing about the
World Series games of yesteryear and nobody even commented on what I had to say in the Roof Blog. Everybody was babbling on about that, a non issue.
I went to a World Series day game in Baltimore when I was a child and It’s something I’ll never forget.
The stranglehold that TV has on sports overall is a travesty. MLB should have more intestinal fortitude and should set the times for the games, not FOX or ESPN, etc.
MLB is losing out on a whole generation of potential fans and future players in younger children now by making the Series a prime time event for TV, putting it out of reach of young people who have to go to school the next morning.
MLB will continue I guess to Prostitute itself for the almighty dollar to the major networks. Of course, in all fairness, so does the NFL.
By jim
October 27, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this
Carroll,
That foul ball was not in the exact same spot as Chippers. Chippers was more down the line and directly over his head. He slowed up because it’s hard to judge a ball hit directly over you. I know, I played 3rd base and have had to make that catch. It is an easier play for the SS because he has an angle and can get a read on the ball.
As far as heart and desire, it only gets you so far. You need players. The White Sox had them this year. The other teams didn’t.
How about Garner’s chair tossing the night before and then chewing out his team afterwards? What a bush league move. The Astros had no shot last night after that meltdown.
By Carroll
October 27, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this
I liked Garner’s attitude. He said what we all were thinking, and I respect him for having that courage. It beats the hell out of watching players giggle and mack on female reporters as the end nears.
I already granted that you have to have good players and talent just to get into the playoffs…heart and desire isn’t enough to compensate for poor talent. But all playoff teams are about equal in that regard, more or less. THAT’s when the heart and desire comes in. Once youre IN the playoffs, the heart and desire is what makes champions. Our boys don’t have it, the Stros didn’t have enough of it.
You’re right that last night’s foul ball wasn’t EXACTLY the same as chumper’s in game 4….it was a more difficult play to make, and Uribe gave up his body and made it! You can make excuses for CJ on that foul ball, but ultimatley, he was there….within arms reach of it, but gave up and pulled back because he was scared. That’s not the heart of a champion.
Godbless, Carroll.
By Ron
October 27, 2005 11:21 AM | Link to this
The Braves keep losing because they don’t hit? What a crock. The Braves scored plenty enough runs to beat the Astros. If they had had any relief pitching at all, it would have been the Braves getting swept by the White Sox last night instead of Houston.
By BB FAN
October 27, 2005 12:00 PM | Link to this
Bart Di Giovanni and Tim Franzen, I agree that the playoffs and WS games should be earlier. All I’ve ever seen were prime time games due to my age. However, I am thankful that my dad was a fan so when I was younger, I was able to watch the games. I usually would fall asleep before it was over though. I think the start times for games could be as late as 5-6 pm and it would still allow kids to watch them. I can’t stand the fact that everything today is about money. It’s crazy. You’re right in the fact that MLB might lose a lot of potential fans in those kids.
By Bunt
October 27, 2005 12:01 PM | Link to this
Mark Bradley, you think the Astros hitting came across as “amateurish” huh?…so what does that say for the future of Braves hitting with all those rookies and “amateurs” that are on the team now, and those that are certain to be coming to Atlanta because Sourhurtz only “unloads” payroll to keep himself and 3 or 4 other players in the greenest of pastures? If you want to watch something amateurish try playing a few reruns of Braves early postseason exits and pay close attention to ol’ Boog Cox’s management style—now that is “amateurish!”…and by the way, since some people keep begging for more money to go to payroll—“so Braves can win”—what is wrong with the $80+ million per season that the Braves have to work with?—the White Sox are the “World Series Champions” on a mere $69 million—and with no Boog Cox, John Sourhurtz, or Porky Pig Mazzone!…
By Dave
October 27, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this
First, congratulations to the White Sox on finally winning a World Series title after 85 years of struggle!!
Second, who wants to make the bet that they do NOT make it to the World Series next year? In fact, given the quality of competition within their division (specifically the Cleveland Indians) and the fact that their best hitter (Paul Konerko) will probably get BIG bucks from any of a number of other teams (Angels, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Didgers), they may not even make the playoffs next year!
Third, who wants to make a bet that the Braves will be in playoffs next year?? The starting pitching is there!! Relief pitching is a concern, but JS will deal with it. Except for Furcal, the starting lineup is set, with great depth on the bench (Betemit can be an adequate replacement for Furcal)! And we still have a shot of signing Furcal.
Comments??
By Curveball
October 27, 2005 12:06 PM | Link to this
So kids can’t watch the World Series because it’s on too late and they have to go to bed so they can get up for school the next day?—so you want day games—“When kids should already be in school!” Wow!…
By Tim Franzen
October 27, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this
Hey Curveball,
Do you not have anything else to do with your self besides be a wet blanket? Start games at 3 in the afternoon or even 4 o’clock so that the kids can the see the World Series. I’m beginning to realize that this blog thing is pooling of ignorance. Maybe intelligent conversation is not welcome on these sports blogs. Thanks BB Fan, you looked behind what I trying to say and I agree maybe start the World Series games at 6:20 or so like they do the Super Bowl. It would make it more of a party feel and Dinner with the kids could be set around the games.
By Bunt
October 27, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this
Tim Franzen sounds like an expert on wet blankets…
By Tom
October 27, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this
I grew up in the Chicago area, becoming a big White Sox fan as a kid and teenager. After moving to the southeastern USA in high school, I ended up living in Atlanta for my first 17 years after college, before returning to the Chicago area five years ago.
I became a huge Braves fan even before they began their run of success in 1991. By the late-90’s, I realized that I am a much bigger Braves fan than I ever was for the Sox. As a result, I suffered greatly seeing the gut-wrenching, one-run losses by the Braves in the World Series during the ‘90’s. Like many others, I’ve been sorely disappointed, to the point of disgust and indifference, seeing the Braves perform worse and worse in the playoffs over the past five-six seasons.
Because I’ve gone through so much stress suffering through Braves post-season games over the past 15 years, I didn’t watch a whole lot of the Sox post-season games, especially the World Series games. They reminded me too much of the Braves’ post-season games of the ‘90’s, except for the fact that the Sox kept coming through with wins as opposed to the Braves finding ways to lose (or their opponents finding ways to win).
Last night’s game four was reminiscent to me of game seven of the ‘91 World Series…scoreless, nerve-wracking, and a base-running blunder in the late innings (by Rowand) that was much to similar to Lonnie Smith’s gaffe in the ‘91 game seven. However, I made myself watch the game, and when the Sox finally closed it out, I could finally celebrate a World Series title for one of “my” teams for the first time in a decade.
I hope that the Braves will change their ways and someday soon play in the post-season like the White Sox did this year. Yes, the Sox got some huge breaks along the way, but they took advantage of every one of them. The Braves have seemingly never gotten breaks themselves in the post-season, but maybe they’ll finally get theirs someday soon.
GO BRAVES, GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!!!!!
By Robert M. Ballard
October 27, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this
For us die hart Braves fans, not getting out of the division championships hurt. I always thought that much of the criticism was caused by the fact that so many Atlantans are really from elsewhere. I was born there. But living in Michigan, I went to Detroit Tiger games with Tiger fans in what would be football whether in the south. Then there is envy of “hotalanta”. So every one forgets that you win year after year. When you have a umpire allowed to call pitches a mile wide against you (Eric Greg) and the other little things over the years right up to Houston’s “painted and tainted” home run line, it definitely gets into your head. Baseball got something right for a change in making Houston close the roof. The White Sock shattered some ego’s, including those of the Yankees and Redsock as well as those of the Astros and Cardinals. I will be the first to predict that the Braves will at least be National League champs in 2006.
Robert M. Ballard Durham, NC
By Tim Franzen
October 27, 2005 02:30 PM | Link to this
At least I’m man enough to use my real name “Bunt” and “Curveball”
By Tim Franzen
October 27, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this
Bunt,if I’m a wet blanket, what to do you call giving BC, JS and LM childish names like Boog Cox, John Sourhurtz, and Porky Pig Mazzone? That’s not being negative and a wet blanket? I hope even with new hitting and pitching coaches, we’re able to come back and win at least the NLChampionship, maybe even the whole thing.
I think the proper course will be to promote a new pitching coach from within our minor league system. If I’m not mistaken, that’s where Leo Mazzone started out.
By Paul
October 27, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this
The reason the Cubs lost the NLCS two years ago was not because of a fan. It was because they gave up 5 runs with two outs in the inning. All the “fan interference” in the world wouldn’t be responsible for that choke job. There is no “curse” on the lovable losers. They just aren’t that good. Never have been. Congrats to the Sox.
By South Sider
October 27, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this
As a life-long Braves fan currently living on the South Side of Chicago, this has been a strange World Series to experience. As I’ve been surrounded by distracted co-workers who worried anxiously about the next pitching match-up and were bleary-eyed from another late night, I had to fight off the thoughts of, “It’s not that big a deal” that continued to creep up from a heart that has become quite calloused after 14 playoff years and too many postseason disappointments. I struggled to remember what it was like back in ‘91, when I was just a freshman at UGA and a World Series with the Braves in it seemed like a ludicrous impossibility. I was crushed after that year’s loss because I was certain we had blown our only chance; we would return to our usual futility and would never make it back again. Obviously, I couldn’t have been more wrong. For the White Sox’ sake, however, maybe they’ll be better off if they don’t make it back next year. It will only make this season more magical, more unbelievable, more special. Sox fans will warm themselves during dark Chicago winters remembering Konerko’s slam, Posednik’s shot, and Uribe’s catch. Besides, after waiting 88 years for one, it almost seems greedy to expect another. Meanwhile, we Braves fans will continue stumbling through a foggy haze of memories of what almost was and what should have been, less certain with each passing year that we actually did come out on top in ‘95.
By South Sider
October 27, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this
Sorry if I got a little sentimental on you. Y’all can just throw another log on the fire and pass me the wet blanket; it’s getting cold outside.
By Nicholas Irwin
October 27, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this
I’m sorry, but I really don’t understand this start games in the middle of the afternoon thing. It seems to me that you start games when the most people are going to be able to watch them, not in the middle of the afternoon when nobody will be able to watch them. If the World Series were to be held in the afternoon now nobody would watch it. However, along those line, I do agree that the current start time of the World Series is ludicrous. You can’t put all the pregame BS before 8 as opposed to at 8? If you have the actual game start at 7:30 or 8, barring extra innings the game will generally be over between 11 and 11:30. That I think people can deal with. However, you have a 45 minute celebration that nobody cares about beforehand (all due respect to the All-Latino team. All of those guys were or are great players, and I have no problem with unveiling that before a World Series game, but put it actually before the World Series game as opposed to pushing the World Series game back to accomodate that program.) and all of a sudden you’re starting the game at 9. That doesn’t make any sense, for sure. But neither does putting it in the middle of the afternoon so that ONLY kids can watch it.
By Tom
October 27, 2005 04:05 PM | Link to this
Southsider, good to know that there’s another big Braves fan here in Chicagoland. Your comments made me remember that I had told my two brothers, who are HUGE Sox fans, a couple of weeks ago that now they know what Braves fans went through in ‘91 — staying up late watching nail-biting games, incredulous that their team was playing for the league championship, and in total elation to see their team in the World Series. Unlike Braves fans, however, they get to celebrate a World Series title, whereas Braves fans had their hearts crushed like grapes as the Braves lost to the damn Twins and their stupid so-called ballpark with garbage bags for outfield walls.
By Tim Franzen
October 27, 2005 05:05 PM | Link to this
Nicholas, Nobody is talking about moving the games to the middle of the afternoon, we’re talking about moving them to between 6 and 7 so that kids can see at least most of the World Series Games. Make it like 6:20 when they start the Super Bowl. It’s ridiculous to have to stay up until Midnight or after to watch the game and Extra Innings are going to push it into the wee hours of the morning. I also agree about the pre-game crap. I don’t even tune in until around the first pitch time and even then I’ve got the sound down.
The inane comments by both Joe Buck and Tim McCarver are more than I can handle. I’ve followed baseball all of my life and don’t need to analyze every pitch. My gosh, every pitch almost is played back. What’s up with that? I hope another network can get the rights to MLB soon.
By Curveball
October 27, 2005 08:39 PM | Link to this
Better lay off the Curveball…
By Gritz Blitz
October 27, 2005 10:47 PM | Link to this
CARROLL: Remember that Chumper was too hungry and tired to lift his bat in Game 4. How can you expect a guy in that state to reach into the stands to catch a ball? LOL
I completely agree with your comments. IMO, the Braves will never compete for a title again until Chipper is gone.
By Mary Jo Taylor
October 28, 2005 08:35 AM | Link to this
The Chicago White Sox finally accomplished the “Real” Field of Dreams!!!!
As my cousin wrote in an email to me “it’s not about who wins or loses….. but about dreams coming true………. A young man named ‘Joe’ ( Shoeless Joe), pauses just before he enters the corn field and asks of his host on his Iowa farm, “Is this heaven?” and his host Ray answers, “No. It’s Iowa”. But I say to you this, “No. It’s the South Side of Chicago.”
So, Congrats to my family in Chicago, Minnesota, here in Atlanta, and especially my gandfather, as we have been cheering for the White Sox for as long as I can remember.
Now, the Cubs & their fans await of the “curse” to be lifted from the them, as well…long overdue.
By Phil
October 28, 2005 09:04 AM | Link to this
I was glad to see baseball make Houston open the roof. The purpose of a retractable roof is if there is inclimate weather you close it, if it’s nice you open it. You don’t close it because you want your fans to make more noise. It’s typical of the Fox announcers to miss the point on this, maybe they wanted to make the series go longer. Congrats to the White Sox winning with some good pitching and only one position player (Conerko) that I’ve really ever heard of. About the Braves, wouldn’t you like to see them play better than expectations in the playoffs, they never do. If we played the playoffs in July we would win every year but the Braves seem to play mediocre ball around mid September. Lets look and congradulate the biggest chokers of the year. The Yankees (Now they are the Braves of the Northeast) The Cardinals (weren’t they supposed to win it all the last 2 years?) The Red Sox (back to their choking ways) Thanks guys you make the Braves fans feel so much better about themselves!
By Carroll
October 28, 2005 09:38 AM | Link to this
Gritz: That was the most pathetic excuse I’ve ever heard from a supposed professional athlete!! I can understand being hungry, but have these guys ever heard of power bars?! Snickers?! Pop tarts??! Potato chips?! Any kind of portable food that a multimillionaire should be prepared to have on hand in the event of a game like that?
By CJC
October 28, 2005 10:42 AM | Link to this
It was good to see Dye be able to play a World Series game and not run into the fielder next to him and knock the ball out of his glove and cause his team to lose 1-0 because of it.
By Carroll
October 28, 2005 11:31 AM | Link to this
Ah yes…the tragic game 5 of the 96 WS. I still shake my head thinking about that pay and the play that ended that game….tying and go ahead runs on base with 2 out, Luis Polonia at bat. He launched one to deep right center that I thought for sure would end the game with a bRaves win. Instead, no-knees Paul Oneil ran like Michael Johnson and tracked it down. Unreal.
And What about game 4 when the ump got in Dye’s way of that routine foul pop which really got the Yanks started on the run that led to Leyritz’s homerun?
Okay I gotta go vomit now. Thanks a lot CJC! :)
By Oren
October 28, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this
“Heart” and “desire” are intangibles, immeasurable, impossible to coach, difficult to judge. Carroll makes the statement that all 8 playoff teams are relatively equal talent-wise, which makes sense. I assert that they are also relatively equal in “heart and desire” amounts. Perhaps Uribe has more than Chipper. Perhaps no one on any team has more than Marcus Giles. It is impossible to judge conclusively. The following is what should be the test of a great team: That they play a grueling 162 game schedule and win a high percentage of their games, that they make the playoffs. The playoffs themselves are a crapshoot. Luck, the wind, the bounce of a ball, fan interference, an inch here or there on a batted or thrown ball means takes on much greater significance in a 5 or 7 game series. The hot team wins. How do you get hot? I don’t know and Carroll doesn’t either. You can’t say the Braves didn’t desire in their hearts to be the hottest team in the playoffs. In a season, talent wins out. So I again I say, the Braves (including Chipper) are the greatest team of all time because NOBODY has ever been to the playoffs 14 consecutive seasons. Kudos to all the WS winners, they deserve all the credit they get. But realize, its a game of inches. Don’t call for an organizational shakeup over a 5 game series the Braves lost. Reward them for the great season they had. Again!
God Bless you all.
By Carroll
October 28, 2005 04:46 PM | Link to this
Oren (Hatch?): nice post and good points. A couple of things to follow up:
Nobody’s calling for a shakeup because of one, 5-game series. It’s because of six straight 5-game series, and 13/14 overall. Nuff said.
Heart/desire is measurable in terms of who makes the plays, and who wins and moves on. You have to make your own breaks in the playoffs. You have to play well enough to compensate for those inevitable breaks and bounces that every team will invariabe have to deal with in the playoffs (see Mike Scossia following the game 2 debacle). And When those breaks and bounces help your team, you must take advantage of them. The Braves have done none of the above in a long time.
Again if it’s all luck, the law of averages would dictate that you HAVE to win more than one out of 14. 1/14 Is not a matter of luck, it’s not a crapshoot, it’s a virtual guarantee.
By Curveball
October 28, 2005 11:02 PM | Link to this
Dear Santa: Please this offseason could you bring the the Braves a real closer and a few good relief pitchers,,,oh and a bullpen to put them in, and a pitching coach to show them how to pitch, and Santa bring a few hitters that can bunt, and move players over, and maybe even drive in a run once in awhile, and a couple starters that can go more than 4 or 5 innings, hard throwing starters with a little movement on their balls, also please bring Chipper a little bit of energy and an ability to speak plainly, and bring LaRoche a personality and some nodoze pills, bring Estrada some guts, and Gilly another foot in height, and Fooky could really use some O’Douls, and Santa could you give the Braves a new owner with lots of cash and make that owner actually be human, and Santa, last but not least please please bring Braves manager a case of brand new handkerchiefs because he could really really use them??…ps…John Smoltz needs a new arm too!…thanks Santa…Curveball
By Joe Roman
October 29, 2005 09:14 AM | Link to this
“Accentuate the positive. Eliminate the negative. Don’t mess with Mr. In-Between”. I’m happy for ex-Braves when they do well. It’s especially true for Jermaine Dye. He’s a class act all the way. As far as Brad Lidge is concerned, welcome to baseball, whiners. He was god a month ago. Now, he’s not even one of the apostles.
By MBATL
October 29, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this
Curveball, in one post you trashed our ‘pen, our starters, our IB, our 2B, our SS, our 3B, our hitters in general, our ownership, our coaching, and our manager. You must be amazed that the Braves won more than 50 games!
By MBATL
October 29, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this
If there were one case of a manager who’s fiery post-season style had won multiple championships, I might buy Carrol’s theory (and I am excepting Torre, who had overwhelming TALENT). Saying that heart/desire are measurable sounds good if yo say it fast, but the fact is no one has mastered the art of winning in the post season. It just depends on the whims of baseball - who’s hot, how the ball bounces, even favorable umpire calls.
The only way to have a shot at multiple titles is to get INTO the post season on a regular basis.
By Carroll
October 29, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this
MBATL: again, of course you have to have good talent to make the playoffs…nobody is suggesting the Braves have been anything other than spectacular in that regard. But they don’t want it enough in the playoffs. And a fiery, emotional manager doesn’t have to throw chairs…Ozzie was very fiery and emotional, Lou pinella, Lasorda. Yes none of them besides Tommy won “multiple” championshipps, but none of them have been handed the kind of talent and pitching as BC has, to consistely make the playoffs…if any of those managers had as many trips to the playoffs as bobby they’d prolly have at least 1 more win.
By MBATL
October 29, 2005 03:27 PM | Link to this
In fact, since 1998, no team has even GONE to the World Series more than once, except the Yankees (who are always the exception).
The NL has sent the Astros, Cards, Marlins, Giants, D’backs, Mets, Braves, and Padres; the AL: Chisox, Red Sox, Yanks, Angels, Yanks, Yanks, Yanks, and Yanks.
My point is: not only has no mgr (beside Torre) won more than one WS, none has gotten out of more than one LCS. Carroll, explain to me how the mgr is the deciding factor in post-season!
By MBATL
October 29, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Carroll, I’ll take most of what you say as accurate. I think though that in several of those years, including this year, the Braves talent has been fair, not great. My point is that they consistently come up with enough talent to get there.
I agree we SHOULD have 1, maybe 2 more titles. The Leyritz home run; the Lonnie blunder; Gant thrown off 1st; McGriff called out on near-wild-pitch. Some bad breaks; probably some decisions that could’ve been better made. As we always come back to… who gives us the best chance NEXT year: Bobby, or some as-yet unnamed savior? Time for GA-FL - I’ll touch base later.
By Curveball
October 29, 2005 04:57 PM | Link to this
“MBATL”…No!..I didn’t trash your beloved Braves, prove me wrong on any one of those items I mentioned…Oh, But I am sorry!…Sorry that I didn’t include several more things on my list!…you are correct on one point tho…50 wins would be stretching it!…
By MBATL
October 29, 2005 05:28 PM | Link to this
Curveball, I could go “point by point” and argue with you, but I guess what I get from your post, and the “body” of your work on these blogs, is that you seem to hate all things Brave-related.
So rather than argue with you (which I’m sure will be futile), let’s try a different approach if you want to: Is there ANYTHING about the Braves that you like?
By Curveball
October 29, 2005 06:18 PM | Link to this
I was kinda partial to that little ol’ Erin Andrews…
By Curveball
October 29, 2005 06:32 PM | Link to this
On second thought…I do like the Braves, and watch them as much as I can thru the season, even suffer thru their postseason flops…I come in these blogs and try to interject a little humor into a situation that is out of my control whatsoever as far as what the Braves will do in the future…my snide remarks aren’t given to cause anyone any harm, just a little humour to make people think about the team without all that dry expert babble and latent baseball “acumen”…so I wish the Braves well, and myself and Bunt are out of here…we’re leaving it to you’s experts!…
By MBATL
October 29, 2005 06:47 PM | Link to this
Curveball, I’ll be surprised if you’re really out of here, and to be honest you’ll be missed if you are…that’s what these forums are for. I have no more baseball acumen than the average fan (as I’m sure is clear from my posts).
But anyway, I do appreciate the perespective on one of my “opponents.”
And we finally agree on something (Erin).
By Carroll
October 29, 2005 07:02 PM | Link to this
MBATL: you are not the problem that curveball is referring to. It’s others who act like you insulted them personally or their mom, just for stating a humble opinion about the Braves. You are very civil and thoughtful, and I for one appreciate that. Curveball, please don’t leave…I enjoy your humor and thoughts.
By Carroll
October 29, 2005 08:18 PM | Link to this
I don’t know much about McDowell other than that he was a great pitcher… but I gotta say, I’m not hating it.
By MBATL
October 29, 2005 08:24 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Carrol. I appreciate your comment, and Curveball, this will be no fun at all if we homers run off all the haters. What will we argue about? The fate of blogging is in your hands! Stick around!
And now, a moment of silence for my beloved Bulldogs….
By Carroll
October 30, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this
MBATL: what do you think of Richt right about now? Time for a change? Isn’t Rick Neuhiesel still available?
By MBATL
October 30, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this
OHHHHH NO, Carroll. Guess there’s a pattern here, but I don’t jump ship on a good program just because we lose a game.
By Carroll
October 30, 2005 06:24 PM | Link to this
We didn’t just lose “a” game. Every year we come out in that one or two “big” games and lack emotion, preparadness and intensity…just like the Braves. There’s no excuse for it. Don’t you get tired of seeing the same thing year in and year out?
By MBATL
October 30, 2005 07:03 PM | Link to this
Carroll, the local team I have little patience for are the Hawks, who have a completely clueless management team; I’m not sold on the whole Jim Mora/Wes Coast Offense experiment, though I’m not ready to throw him under the bus; UGA Basketball, which is a statewide embarrassment. So, I’m not a homer for the sake of being one. I look at the teams that have quality management and that COMPETE for championships, and I do have some appreciation of that. I don’t consider myself so blessed as to be able to demand perfection when I know that, in this case, Florida, Auburn, and Tennessee are working just as hard and with practically identical resources.
By Carroll
October 30, 2005 07:30 PM | Link to this
Granted, at least UGA is not an embarrassment, but they don’t really compete for national championships. They’re forever on the cusp. And when those defining couple of games come round EVERY year, they blow it. Richt has had 5 or 6 years now to get over that hump, and we’re apparently no closer now than we were his first couple of years and there’s no reason to believe that we’ll be any closer next year. I certainly don’t claim to know as much about NCAAF as baseball and the Braves, but it just seems like an awful lot of the same bs year in and year out.
By Keith Dickhudt
November 9, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this
Hello,
My name is Keith Dickhudt and I am the Sports Editor for the campus paper at North Dakota State University. I read that the AJC issued new ethics policies that do not allow its writers to vote on the baseball awards this year. I was wondering exactly what the policy says and the motivation of AJC to make this decision. Does this mean you can not vote and do you agree with this decision?
Thank you for your time.
Keith Dickhudt North Dakota State University The Spectrum Sports Editor Cell: (651) 442-1071