AJC > Sports > Columnists > Archives > 2005 > October > 26 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USVick can’t outrun expectations
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Terence Moore
Two things rush through your mind whenever Michael Vick sprints toward glory after he drops into the pocket and then slips, ducks and twists away from a couple of big guys trying to knock his head off. The first thing is, those big guys really might knock his head off. The second thing is, haven’t we seen this before from a magician disguised as a quarterback?
These Vick moments are becoming wonderfully monotonous for the Falcons, but they are leading to an unfair question from the upper deck of our microwave society: What’s next?
Come on, Michael, do something even wilder. We’ve already seen you outrun the entire defense of the Minnesota Vikings in overtime for 30, 40, nearly 50 yards. We’ve already seen you tumble head over heels in pursuit of a pylon. We’ve already seen you blow through a bunch of Carolina Panthers to score in the clutch. We’ve already seen you destroy the New York Jets with your legs last Monday night with a couple of impressive touchdown runs.
So, Michael, can you truly make our hearts leap from our chests by doing a triple flip while touching the roof of the Georgia Dome with your Nike Zoom III’s along the way to avoiding a sack?
In other words, Vick is resembling Dominique Wilkins by becoming too spectacular for his own good. We’re spoiled, folks, and it began with Wilkins, when he was somewhere near the zenith of his role as the Human Highlight Film. He’d do the unthinkable, but polite applause would replace hearty roars.
Been there, seen that.
Such was the thought of those who had spent forever watching Wilkins function as the Hawks’ prolific leaper of the 1980s and early 1990s. Not only that, the thought was something like, OK, when is ‘Nique really going to thrill us again by jumping high enough to do a quadruple flip while smacking the roof of the arena with his sneakers and descending into a slam?
Actually, we had Herschel moments before those of Dominique. It’s just that Walker didn’t stay at the University of Georgia long enough to reach Wilkins territory. If Walker had, he would have made folks get so antsy for the unrealistic that they would have expected their miracle runner to go from blasting Bill Bates to reaching somebody’s end zone by dragging 11 defenders on his back on a dash from midfield.
Let’s face it. We’re definitely spoiled. We get it regarding our ridiculously high expectations, but we really don’t get it. That’s because we’ve spent the last quarter of a century around Atlanta witnessing a rare sampling of mortals performing a slew of immortal feats, and we’ve done so on a consistent basis. Which is the problem. Which also brings us back to our current version of Herschel and Dominique: No. 7. You can blame this on the inability of those watching Vick’s dramatics to understand the magnitude of it all. In fact, we are becoming immune to it all, but only in the short run.
As for the long run, we’ll look back at Vick’s collective zips and zaps when he encounters a defender, and we’ll release a mighty, “Wow.” You know, just as we did for Dominique and Herschel, and just as we’ll do for Andruw.
That’s Andruw, as in Andruw Jones, the Braves center fielder with the magic glove. He is another who has turned the incredible into the routine. Over and over again, the scenario has gone something like this during Braves games for the past nine years: You see a shot drilled toward the gap in either left-center or right-center field. You see Jones reacting faster than a millisecond. You try to stifle a yawn as he dives to make the catch just above the tip of the grass.
Jones will vary his dance with the magnificent on occasion. One moment, he’ll climb a wall for an out. The next, he’ll make an impossible throw. It doesn’t much matter to those who always want more. Until Jones proves he can rise high enough to, oh, say, do a quintuple flip by smacking the sky with his cleats before making a sliding catch, we won’t be overwhelmed by much of anything else that he does.
Then again, such a thought is overwhelming enough.
Permalink | Comments (105) | Categories: Falcons / NFL, Terence Moore
Comments
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By Raph
October 26, 2005 09:41 PM | Link to this
I will never spoil of the all mighty Vick, but he could keep us all interested in those great runs if he could mix in a great pass or two per game.
By Jeff
October 26, 2005 10:44 PM | Link to this
I have no idea as to what you’re talking about, dude. Vick’s performances will never be monotonous.
By eric
October 26, 2005 11:47 PM | Link to this
Yea, very dumb story. Stick to your rememberances on ESPN Classic, Terence. Those are more monotonous.
By for real
October 26, 2005 11:48 PM | Link to this
I get it and you are right. This guy is so special and different yet as he keeps posting w’s, people still expect more. I guess Atlanta yearns for the Chris Miller, Jeff George days, great stats with little substance. The Falcons are actually a throwback to the old days when the pass was used only out of desparation or when you got beat physically at the line of scrimmage. Vick, is really rewriting the rule book and wouldn’t it be extra special if the Falcons won a game without completing a single pass. The dinking and dunking is just to keep the defenses honest. Knapp and Mora know they have a mule to hitch a ride, though that style may cut his career short.
By Scott
October 27, 2005 03:01 AM | Link to this
Comparing Dominique and Vick is about right. Neither is a team player. All about self and their points and accomplishments.
Good comparison.
By Scott
October 27, 2005 03:05 AM | Link to this
Vick: ‘I’m a team guy’
By STEVE WYCHE The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Published on: 10/27/05 FLOWERY BRANCH â€â€? Falcons quarterback Michael Vick said Wednesday he is one of the NFL’s top players and one of the most recognizable figures in all of sports and could use his celebrity to his advantage on and off the field. However, he said it is his nature to lay relatively low and have his teammates view him as one of them.
“Everybody knows I’ve got great talents and gifts and can do things 90 percent of the guys in the league can’t do,” Vick said. “I don’t feel like I’ve got to do things differently, show off my status, my power. I can do it, but it’s no need. Only if a line is crossed or if there’s a need for me to act a certain way would I approach the situation differently. It’s pretty much the way I’ve been since Virginia Tech and since I’ve been here. I’m a team guy, I understand the concept of winning and what it takes to win.”
Vick said his sprained right knee, which sidelined him for Atlanta’s 31-28 loss to New England Oct. 9, is not totally healed but the bye this weekend should allow him to be close to full strength for the Nov. 6 game at Miami. Vick said he’s tried to restrain himself from running as much because of his knee, but because of his potential to bust a big gain, staying put in the pocket could always be a struggle, he said. ……………………………….
team player. what a laugher that is.
Can anyone explain the last sentence Vick made ? wtf is he talking about.
By Zettler Clay
October 27, 2005 03:24 AM | Link to this
How can you say Vick is about himself??? Really??? The guy has done nothing but put off personal satisfactions for wins. You have never heard him complain about his role in this O. You can get on his stats all you want but the guy does nothing but win. They could very easily be 7-0.
But I guess winning isn’t good enough, and you wonder why this is such a poor sports town, because of such ungrateful fans.
By Big Al
October 27, 2005 06:34 AM | Link to this
Hey Terence- the big difference is the W-L and the number of seats each guy filled. More seats, more money; more money, better players; better players, more titles.
Terence, you are soooo out of it.
By Scoop Ross
October 27, 2005 07:28 AM | Link to this
So many HATERS!!!
By v avant
October 27, 2005 07:37 AM | Link to this
Vick is exciting however I must say winning is the most important thing. I’ll never get tired of Vick making some spectacular play with his legs and feet. But at the same time I am starting get more and more frustrated with the lack of fundamentals shown on some (it seems like most) of the passes Vick throws. I want Vick to be spectacular but even more so I want him to succeed as a QB because that’s the only way we are going to win games in January. He doesn’t have to throw for 300 yards just make the simple throws throughout the course of a game when the opportunity presents itself. Don’t throw bullet passes on a screen. Don’t throw behind open receiver’s running across the middle of the field and possibly getting them hurt (remember Michael Jenkins on Monday Night) when they try to catch the ball. Don’t underthrow the deep ball when one of our receiver’s finally gets a step or two behind the defense. Could I do any better? No but the Atlanta Falcons aren’t paying me over $100 million to do so. My point is not to bash Vick but I do think sometimes we use the running game as an excuse to cover up a pathetic passing game. The reason why I believe in Michael Vick so much isn’t because he can do spectacular things as much as it is that for the first time in this franchises history it feels like we have a reason to believe that we have a legitimate chance to win every time we step on the field. Vick has alot to do with that however he must throw the ball better than what he has shown this year so far. I’ll take the spectacluar play from Vick whenever I can get it but, what I expect is a team that can win the big games in January. In order to do that we need a more consistent (not spectacular) passing game. I don’t believe that is to much to expect from a QB as talented as Vick. Later. V Avant
By CJ
October 27, 2005 08:00 AM | Link to this
Scott, you have way too much time on your hand buddy!
By Kudzu
October 27, 2005 08:46 AM | Link to this
Michael Vick makes me wan’t to puke. I couldn’t get past the first couple of paragraphs in the article today about his (team player) prowess. What in the name of Vince Lombardi is a team player? Vick does not know. How do you describe yourself as a team player on the one hand, and a great player all in the same sentence? It’s moronic and an oximoron.
I guess I’m freaking living in another time-zone warp era. I just think that when you have to (promote yourself)- that signifies a weakness in ones confidence, self-control, and ones relationship with other human beings.
Maybe Arthur Blank appointed him King, and we’re just not aware of it.
Being a great player in sports is one thing, but describing yourself (often in the third person) as being a great player in sports- alineates me. This kind of language does not endear me to him. And you guys want me to be a (fan), how do you be a fan? Is his attitude not suppose to matter? Are we suppose to just look the other way and appreciate his WINNING skills?
A guy could be a rapist and thief, but as long as he still WINS, forget all that other stuff, win baby, stoke my ego, make more money for all of us; i.e. M Tyson.
Usually people with that much arrogance find a pitfall along the way. It’s just a matter of time.
Vick, I thought you might have a little more class than your brother, but quite obviously you guys are two peas in a pod.
After reading about his self- grandisement, crap on Mike Vick, trade him, I don’t care if he does get hurt. And contrary to what many of you feel-
“Winning is not everything”
By Rob D
October 27, 2005 09:00 AM | Link to this
It’s official now, some of you people are stuck. What is it, with this over analyzing of the Vick family. They are both winners, baby Vick is only undefeated in his first season and big brother aint(oops is not)doing so bad either. You guys bad mouthing these guys are really weak. Its one thing to say the guy needs to improve his passing, but wishing personal harm to someone because of your dislike for them, thats cowardly. The same people that get on these boards and act like bigots and are harsh critics of everything, unforunately our are Ceo’s, community leaders and peopl of power. And we wonder why our country is so divided, I cant stand it.
By dgd
October 27, 2005 09:03 AM | Link to this
Kudzu, you have a problem. Your problem is that you are jealous of Vick. A blind person could see that. You flipped and turned that whole article around and made it seem like Vick was full of himself. I’m not going to form an opinion of the man because I don’t know him personally. You should do the same. The problem with a lot of you “southern gentlemen” is that you are jealous of Vick, his celebrity, and most of all, his wealth. You see a young black man with money, dressing, looking, and talking like Mike and you can’t stand it. Vick is right, he does have a lot of influence and power. Many of you long for the days of Chris Miller, Jeff George, and Chris Chandler just to name a pitiful few. Is it because they had superior stats or is it because they looked more like you. I think the latter.
By shola
October 27, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this
I was a vick fan from the beginning and still am, but a few truths have got to be told. Since Dan Reeves left Vick’s passing game has gome south(excuse the pun!), I blame Jim Mora, a first year coach that came a game away from the big dance, which was achived largely on Vick’s ability to run, he is not going to develope Vick’s passing skills while he has that winning formular,it’s not in his interest. Vick doesn’t help himself by thinking run all the time he needs to make a stand(excuse the pun again!)and say he wants to stay in the pocket more, otherwise he would become what his detractors have always thought that he is just a glorified RUNNING BACK!
By Mojo
October 27, 2005 09:24 AM | Link to this
God after listening to you crybabies, I would think we are 2-5, not 5-2. Get a clue. We are fortunate enough to be watching the rise of a dynasty….yep I said it, a dynasty. And Kudzu I’m sorry but winning is everything. We started 5-2 last year and went to the NFC championship game….in our very first year of a new offense!! We are 5-2 this year with the toughest part of our schedule behind us. You Vick haters just don’t get it do you? Even if he throws for zero yards, he opens things up so much with his legs. Call him a glorified RB if you want…I’ll just call him a winner.
By Marc
October 27, 2005 09:34 AM | Link to this
Terence, you are about one of the most out of touched sports writer I’ve ever read. Man get a clue and stop trying, thats right, trying to be so controversial. R U starving for attention? To all of Atlanta, you sound like a idiot.
By dirrtybird
October 27, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this
Kudzu,
Are you comparing Mike Tyson to Mike Vick? Maybe I should compare you to Mark Furman? You probably don’t even know who that is. Here’s an idea. Go root for another team. See Ya!
By Jay
October 27, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this
Moore,
Nice article. I remember those Nique and Herschel moments. Vick and Andruw are special…can’t wait to see more moments from those guys. Moore, keep writing and we will keep reading and so will your Haters!!
By Shiney
October 27, 2005 10:14 AM | Link to this
I KEPT TELLIN YA WE NED 2 TRAYED VICK AND START SCWAUB IT SO AHBVIOUS VICK WILL NEVER B A NFL QB EITHER THAT OR LINE HIM UP AT WR I DONT NO HOW U PEEPS CAN B SO DUM
By Barron Elder
October 27, 2005 10:15 AM | Link to this
I’ truyly a Vick fan and enjoy watching him do miracles on the football field. My problem is his comments in the self-promotion dept.A true superstar would never proclaim his superiority in any dept. other than I thank Got for the gifts given me!
By cp
October 27, 2005 10:50 AM | Link to this
Maybe im wrong but from what i remember Dominique didnt have much help around him so he had to do a lot of the scoring. I didnt care how many shots he took because at least then the Hawks made it to the playoffs.With Vick its either love him or hate him on these blogs. The Falcons actually win games and people still find a way to complain. Vick does have to improve his passing that is a fact but i get sick of people bringing up his contract or how he talks or how he dresses. I dont care what he wears when he is not on the field. Im all about the Falcons winning and maybe some of you need to think about that.
By GAboy
October 27, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this
KEPT TELLIN YA WE NED 2 TRAYED VICK AND START SCWAUB IT SO AHBVIOUS VICK WILL NEVER B A NFL QB EITHER THAT OR LINE HIM UP AT WR I DONT NO HOW U PEEPS CAN B SO DUM
Shiney—-learn how to spell before you call us dumb would you?
By Randy
October 27, 2005 10:57 AM | Link to this
Guys, we are getting sooo boring. Same things about Vick every day. “He needs to pass more acurately, run less, run more, he passes just fine, it’s Mora’s fault, Marcus is so good…” Blah, blah, blah. Michael will never live up to his our expectations until he wlaks on water…What’s next? The blame for this lies in you Terrance, and the rest of the media for idolizing him in your columns. The blame lies in the Falcon’s and WVA’s PR depts. for promoting him as the next saviour. The blame lies in Michale Vick himself, for telling us that only 30% of the NFL can do what he can do. (hey Michael, 70% of the NFL doesn’t WANT to be you)
By Kenneth Robinson
October 27, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this
I agree with V Avant. Michael Vick will not reach his full potential as a quaterback until he realizes the importance of a good pass. I blame the coaches because it all starts in practice. Mike has such a strong arm all he needs to do is flick it and the ball sails 70 yards.However, if the coaches would teach him the benefit of planting his feet and follow-through with his arm we would not see as many short throws, overthrows, and behind the receiver.
By blogsreader
October 27, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this
Shiney, GET A DICTIONARY! Kudzu, yes you are in another time zone. In pro sports, winning is EVERTHING! Vick helps win games and that’s all that matters. You haters should stop watching the game and spend more time reading self help books. You people are so @#%&$! Moore great article, keep up the good work!
By Allen
October 27, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this
Dumb! Dumb! You run out of stuff to write about? Worst column you’ve ever writen.
By Shiney
October 27, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this
Y R U BEIN SO MEAN 2 ME I AINT DONE NUTTIN WRONG JUST SATE MY OPINUN AN SUM OF U GUYZ GIT ALL MAD.
By shola
October 27, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this
For a start I’m not a Vick hater, I have being a fan of his from his V Tech days I have a right to my point of view! Fact Schaub proved from a standing start that the Atlanta receiving corp can generate 300+ passing yards he could’ve had more if the usual suspects weren’t dropping balls. We all know Vick is a better runner than Schaub, suddenly at the New England game the coaches were able to design a passing game, when Vick comes back the next 2 games the passing game disappears coincidence! I think NOT! Jim Mora wants to win bad and he does not care if he has run Vick to do it, which is making Vick look bad in the passing game and his $130 million dollar contract. FACT!
By arturo
October 27, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this
shiney, may i suggest lessons in grammar, my dear ole’ waste
By Shiney
October 27, 2005 12:38 PM | Link to this
ARTURO U MINE UR OWN BIZNEZZ!
By Greg from Marietta
October 27, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this
Hey, I’ve got a great idea. Let’s see if the AJC will hire “Scott�, “Kudzu� & “Shiney� as a sports writing team. They can collaborate with each other and compare their sports knowledge and write articles expounding their sports wisdom. Or the AJC can hire a blind monkey with a typewriter and probably get articles that would make a lot more sense than what those three could write. You three are living examples of what Abraham Lincoln was talking about when he said, “It is Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt�.
By ray
October 27, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this
in order for mv7 to get to the next level the falcons need to hire a more experienced qb coach than micheal johnson to challenge vick, teach him when to take some off the ball & when to fire that bullet. remember vick wasn’t in college for long(2yrs) compared to matt shaub(4yrs) & wasn’t asked to throw the ball much @ VT. hei si still learning the position & still having success. look how long steve young played/sat behind joe montana before he got his oppurtunity vick is learning on the fly with no mentor/notable veteran to learn from. in closing i believe vick will get better he just needs a better coach/coordinator to get him to the next level. IM GONE!!!
By Shiney
October 27, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this
GREG I NO MOORE BOUT FOTBALL THEN U DO I DONE PLAY FOOTBAL IN 7 GRADE AND I ASLO RATE HIGH ON MADDAN VIDIO GAME ALL U CAN DO IS MAKE FUN OF PEEPS THAT NO MORE THEN U STEAD OF SAYIN SUMTIN SMRAT.
By Russ
October 27, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this
Shiney, I would like to comment on what you have said. The only problem is I can’t figure out what the hell you are talking about!!! Congratulations on being good at the Madden video (Maddan vidio) game, I think I was able to decipher that much.
By Big D
October 27, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this
let’s face it guys, the nfl is changing, gone are the days of the quaterback with two left legs. VICK represents the future and you can’t name a team in the league that would not jump to sign VICK.. have you guys ever stop to think that maybe VICK does’nt have quality recievers to throw to. our what about the fact that he doesnt have a colts or patriots type of offense line all these are key facors to a quaterbacks success. i can remember Manning his first few years of the league, he really stunk up the place. the fact is, Vick represents a change in the NFL as far as the Quaterback position is concerned. those affected by change are usually your biggest haters. GET USE TO IT VICK IS THE FUTURE, GONE ARE THE DAYS OF THE QB THAT CANT RUN, if VICK was a white man you guys would be saying he’s the best to ever play..but because he is a black man playing QB in a way that it has never been played you want to put him down every chance you get, but the fact remains, Vick is the future……..
By Jerry
October 27, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this
Mike Vick is the most over rated qb in the NFL. Face it Falcon fans…Matt Schaub is already a better all around qb. Any quality team needs to simply take away the run and make Mike throw to beat the vastly over rated falcons. Mr. Vick will soon end up with serious leg and/or knee injuries from taking on NFL linebackers and safeties and within three years he will be out of football or holding a clipboard for Matt Schaub.
By cool c
October 27, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this
Does it matter to any of you wannabees football analyst that the falcon now are a team to watch. the monday nite games and playing on thanksgiving day has not happen to often in the Dan Reeves, June Jones, Jerry Glanville, Chris (ouch) Chandler, Jeff George, and Chris Miller era. Blanks, Mora, Vick and the rest of the birds are working on something special, but we are either to racial or to stupid to see it. I propose you come up with your own team, naming them either the Alambma Yardcats or South Carolina Pigeons or even the Montanna mice. Either way where are all of rite now… sitting home on the couch cause you are not talented enough to play. instead trading M.V. how bout we trade u to one of thse third world countries…crybabies.. luv ya
By J
October 27, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this
it comes down to simple logic, as yall have already pointed out when Shaub started against New England he threw for 298 yards including as earlier said drops from the terrible Dez White. Personally, I could really give a rip about how Vick portrays himself as long as when hes between the lines hes putting up the W’s. If vick could just make the smaller plays, and actually follow through on his passes instead of standing straight up and flipping his rist,the man could be truely unstoppable and the falcons would be playing in january surely. but as it is now, i find myself each week becoming more aggitated with his inability to make a 5 yard out pass without missing or killing his receivers, when they actually catch the ball that is, AND PUT THE BALL AWAY WHEN UR IN TRAFFIC, wow, ill never undertand how a coach would let his quarterback or running back for that matter be so senseless with the football…overall however; i believe in vick, i believe he will get better, although it would be hard to get worse as a passer, and theres No reason to hate, 5-2, hes our quarter back, have a good one atl…
By Shiney
October 27, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this
RUSS U NEED 2 PAID ATENTION 2 WHAT I AM SAYIN THAT WAY U WOOD UNDERTAND WHAT I AM SAYIN VICK AINT NO GOOD CUZ HE CANT THROUGH DA BALL I DONE SENT E MALE TO MR BLANKS TELLIN HIM HE NEDS 2 TRAYED VICK OR MOVE HIM TO WR.
By Big D
October 27, 2005 04:05 PM | Link to this
the two most dangerous QB’s in the league are Mike Vick and Peyton Manning these are the two that give defenses the most trouble. Both are very affective yet they do their damage in different ways. QB’s are the leaders of the team and both of these players lead by example. You all need to realize that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Don’t get caught up in statistics get caught up in victories. As I said before the QB position is changing. Players are becoming faster and stronger. It only makes sense to have the fastest player at QB, considering this person touches the ball 99% of the time on offense. You guys just cant handle change, but get use to it because there are a lot more Mike Vicks comming out of college and the Vinny Testeverdes seem to be fading away…………
By cj
October 27, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this
hey jerry, MV7 will be sitting on the sidelines like Greise Huh? You know with all that scrambling Greise does and all!
By Woodman
October 27, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this
Donovan McNabb is the best QB in the game. Criticizing Vick does not mean they are racists. Don’t be stupid. Schaub proved that the Falcons do have a passing game. Vick proves week in and week out that a passing game isn’t required. Please stop using the term “hater”. I’m sick of reading seeing it on every other post. Don’t pick on Shiney. He’s funny. If you have to correct his spelling then you just don’t get it.
By CT
October 27, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this
I totally agree with you, we are spoiled, to the point where I’m totally embarrassed with our fans. Have they forgotrten about the teams in past that could fill up the concession stand, let alone the dome. I’m so tired of hearing about Michael Vick not being a real quarterback, he’s a running back that can throw the football. Have those same fans forgotten when you heard anyone say Atlanta Falcons, everybody else laughed. The team was a joke around the league, now we are contenders. Every year he gets better, leave him alone!!!! Just like the braves, I remember when you couldn’t give a ticket away.And please I’m still upset at the way Dominick Wilkins was handled. We had our own icon, and they let him walk off the court like he was just some rookie to the game. I haven’t been to a game since he left, and that’s the the truth. I am a born and raised Georgian, for those transplant that cheer for their home team when they come to Georgia, and always complaining, check Delta, I’m sure we can get you back home real quick. “GO MICHAEL GO!!!!!!!!”
By CT
October 27, 2005 05:08 PM | Link to this
AS far as the comments from Shiney, he’s actually laughing the ones that he can get to respond to him. Kudzu, no comment. You want Michael to stay in the pocket more, through the ball more. First let’s get him some receivers that will hold on to the ball. Then given him an offense line that will protect him like they do Matt Schaub. Why is that?? Because they know that Michael can run his way out of a sack, but Matt, they protect like a precious glass slipper on the edge of the table. We finally got a team that’s giving us the WINS, and you’re still not pleased. Move on, you don’t belong here anymore. And when you wish bodily harm on another person, be careful, you mind find out first hand out that pain feels, you may be able to tell Mike
By Big D
October 27, 2005 05:10 PM | Link to this
woodman, mcnabb at one point could have been considered the best, but they have molded him into the average pocket passer. he no longer uses his speed and running ability, unstead he has become passive. we proved this on monday night when the eagles got ran out of the georgia dome. Let’s hope Vick does’nt change his style like mcnabb did…run vick run
also, everybody keeps talking about what schaub did against the patriots. the fact of the matter is “we lost the game”….who cares about the stats..schaub is a pretty good QB and can start on several teams in the league, however, he’s no mike vick…..
By Jeff
October 27, 2005 06:55 PM | Link to this
Here’s what Jason Whitolock had to say about Vick:
Monday night I couldn’t decide which was more embarrassing: Michael Vick’s performance or Jim Mora’s coaching.
Never has a team that produces four sacks, an interception, a 155-yard rusher and a 20-0 second-quarter lead been as unimpressive as the Falcons were against the Jets.
Don’t get me wrong. I liked everything about the Falcons except Vick and Mora. Vick simply cannot pass, and I couldn’t figure out late in the third quarter and throughout the fourth why Mora was allowing Vick to attempt to throw the football.
The Jets could’ve easily rallied and won that game, thanks to Vick’s Frerotte-like passing. If Vick ever plays quarterback in a Super Bowl, I’ll be shocked.
The solution to Atlanta’s No. 1 receiver problem spells his name M-I-C-H-A-E-L V-I-C-K.
Here’s the link:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=whitlock/051027
By Steve
October 27, 2005 09:07 PM | Link to this
Statistics show that Vick is in fact regressing as a passer. His QB rating is down, as are all his other significant passing numbers.
Mike clearly has all the talent in the world…I believe the question at this point is whether the coaching staff will do what’s necessary to get the point across to him that he MUST learn to read a defense, stay in the pocket and work his progressions. I hear over and over that the problem is that Mike doesn’t have a decent WR (which is why the TEs and RBs are the leading receivers)…but I believe that Mike’s lack of accuracy and his apparent inability to work a progression is the real problem. He’s left with the choice of either running or making the considerably easier check-down to a TE or RB. And trying to say that the O-line somehow steps up their play when Schaub is under center…that’s just ignorant. The reason that it looks like Schaub is getting better protection is that he’s staying in the pocket where the protection is. As an O-lineman it’s hard to protect your QB when you don’t have the slightest idea where he’s going to end up.
And anyone trying to make this a racial issue is just dense. Before Mike Vick was Mike Vick, you had John Elway and Steve Young…2 white QBs known early in their careers for their scrambling ability. Of course, neither of them won a darn thing until they learned to read the D, stay in the pocket and work their progression…and run only as a last resort. Donovan McNabb (a black QB) had similar issues until he learned to stay in the pocket as well and only scramble occasionally. It’s a bit unfair, given McNabb’s injury this season, to say he no longer scrambles and that’s why he’s not playing as well. His injury combined with the total lack of a running game is the issue in Philly.
IMO, Vick’s development is being retarded by all the back-slapping and “gee whiz, what a run” jock riding that goes on when he breaks out of the pocket. Again…tons of ability. There’s no reason he can’t develop into a great QB. But the coaches are going to have to make it clear to him that he needs to develop/change his game a bit.
End of the day…the guy is too small to continue taking the beating he does. I think it’ll be very interesting to see what happens with the QB situation as time passes. Clearly Vick’s contract is such that it’d be hard to trade him (particularly given his relative lack of discipline/success and injury history), but Schaub’s contract is only good for one more season. I thought Schaub looked pretty good when he played a few weeks ago. I’d be very interested to see what he’d do with a couple of consecutive starts.
I hate to say it, but I’d be willing to bet that San Diego is feeling pretty good about ending up with Ladanian Tomlinson rather than Mike Vick.
By Jeff
October 27, 2005 09:38 PM | Link to this
Steve, you idiot. How many playoff games have the Chargers won with LT?
Now compare that number with the number of playoff wins and conference championship games in which Vick has played. Then consider how many years Vick has played.
Spectacular, isn’t it? Not even the “great” Peyton Mannning has had such success (with much more talent at his disposal).
For some reason, I think the Chargers wish they had drafted Vick. If nothing else, they’d be making a whole lot more money.
By William Kitchens
October 27, 2005 09:58 PM | Link to this
Kudzu… You say Winning isn’t everything and also say in the name of Vince Lombardi?
“Winning isn’t everything… it’s the only thing!” Vince Lombardi
Gee man if you want to bash Vick with an icon, better check his quotes. I kinda think he might have liked Vick a bit.
By Steve
October 27, 2005 10:11 PM | Link to this
Whatever you say Jeff.
LT and Vick entered the league the same year.
Vick/ATL have made the playoffs twice (the conference championship once), winning 2 games and losing 2 games. A .500 record…wow! In both cases their wins were against teams with lousy defenses (GB in ‘02 and STL in ‘04). When they ran into a team with a good D (PHI in both cases) they got their heads handed to them. Vick also has the advantage of playing in a lousy division in an even worse conference.
Tomlinson has made the playoffs once and they lost on a missed field goal. LT also plays in what is considered one of, if not the, strongest divisions in the better conference.
I can’t believe you actually think the Chargers would rather have drafted Vick, particularly since the Chargers had the first pick and could have. I’m equally floored by the idea that you’re comparing Vick favorably to Peyton Manning. You must be smoking some really good stuff.
Let’s see Falcons fans (more importantly, Falcons coaches)…would you rather have Vick or Manning? Oh, that’s a tough one. And now, let’s go ask the Chargers coaches if they’d rather have Vick (in his current scattershot state) or Tomlinson. Oops…another toughie.
As I wrote earlier, Vick has a ton of potential. It’s time for him (with the help of the coaching staff) to start developing it.
By William Kitchens
October 27, 2005 10:25 PM | Link to this
Dear Terrance…
Your writing is completely out of touch with the pulse of this city.
You print the word “Vick” in any blog and debate about Vick’s ability to pass, run and win immeadiately takes root.
Note to Atlanta Fans… We need this guy and we need Schaub to back him up. When have we ever had it this good at QB?
You write about Vick as if the fans expect him to leap up and touch the Dome roof.
They simply want him to check a another receiver and throw the ball a few more times a game to save his shelf life a bit.
A productive 250 - 300 yard passing game would satisfy the majority of the Vick fans and critics alike.
Not your fantasy riddled and condescending diatribe expectations that require some new super stunt into the end zone.
I really wonder sometimes if your contract with Cox has as bonus clause in it to reward you for negative feedback?
But with this column I wonder who spiked the coffee pot?
By david
October 27, 2005 11:09 PM | Link to this
Jeff you show a typical Falcon fan’s insight,No Super Bowl appearances but they make more money from Vick’s presence.Sadly this is what the ATL thinks.Vick will never take the Falcons to a Super Bowl.Last season was the high water mark-it’s a downhill sprint post-season style from now on.But hey sell a few more “7” merchandise that’s a true measure of success.
By kent
October 28, 2005 12:24 AM | Link to this
those who worship the ground that vick wakls on like terence more do not get it. vick is a running back not a quater back. when you all talk about vick, you talked of his wonderful runs and they are some thing to behold but is that all that the quarter back suppose to do? last monday nite, vick made a couple of td runs that were made possible with the hard works of the offensive line and warrick dunn. that one yard td run, by the way terence, was not really spectacular like you discribed. and please remember one thing: vick is not what i would call a ” tough qb” , he is not even a tough foot ball player. players play hurt all the time in this league. ask MONTANA, STEVE YOUNG , BRET FARVE and yes, CHRIS CHANDLER. for some one who is as fragile as vick, he has better not run too much.
By kent
October 28, 2005 12:38 AM | Link to this
and let not forget, last monday nite, vick made the game interesting by throwing 3 ints
By Russ
October 28, 2005 01:23 AM | Link to this
All of you Vick bashers need to soak it up and and get used to the fact that we have a dynamic ,spectacular ,mobile ,elusive, quick-footed,winning black quarterback !!!!! Anyone who knows jack about football from the sandlot to the NFL also knows the object of the game is to score the ball in the opponents end zone by ANY means necessary,that is why the quarterback is given the option to pass or throw at his descretion.Like it or not Michael Vick gives about as good a chance as any quarterback to keep the chains moving,Jim Mora understands this VERY well! You guys have become so accustomed to losing,now you want to find reasons to critisize winning.As far as I can see in only TWO complete seasons Vick has a higher winning pct.,been to more pro bowls,won more play-off games,has more records than ANY quarterback in Falcons history! What’s really wrong ?? Good article Terrance.
By arturo
October 28, 2005 01:25 AM | Link to this
Hey scott, we all saw Steve’s story. No need to copy & paste. Stop wasting our time with your pointless comments. If you’re not down with the Falcons, then scram- U ZERO
By arturo
October 28, 2005 01:29 AM | Link to this
Hey Kent - U IDIOT, 2 of those INT’s were deflections. I think you’re really Scott posting under a different name. Your lame football knowledge…or therefore lack of, gives you away.
By arturo
October 28, 2005 01:41 AM | Link to this
Hey Kudzu, how many times have you used “oxymoron” in different posts. You don’t even know what it means, U A*****. Get off the freakin’ boards, and stay off. If you’re not a Falcons fan, or a Vick fan, then freakin’ leave. I’m so tired of you asswipes.
By jojo
October 28, 2005 01:41 AM | Link to this
You guys are correct,Shaub did prove we had a passing game,but as far as I can recall I think we lost!! We lost all the games Shaub played in except a game against Minnesota that vick had already won!! Get the picture ?
By arturo
October 28, 2005 01:45 AM | Link to this
Hey jeff, you ever think someone has a bad game? Don’t teams also have bad games. The falcons won, why are you griping. How ‘bout in Philly, where McNabb throws 50 times a game, and they have eeked out 3 wins they shouldn’t have (KC, Raiders and last week against San Diego). The Eagles stink it up, they have no running game, and they pass too much, and no-one says anything. Vick doesn’t pass, runs his a* off, and they win, and you guys cey like we lost the game. Make up your freakin’ mind, IDIOTS.
By e.b.
October 28, 2005 01:48 AM | Link to this
Hey kudzu, “how do you be a fan”…good grammar. Don’t be a fan then. Just leave. We won’t miss you. Go jump on another bandwagon.
By e.b.
October 28, 2005 01:52 AM | Link to this
Man Kent, you’re English is almost as bad as Kudzu’s or Scott’s. perhaps you’re the same guy. Vick’s a QB,not a running back. he’s a hybrid, a new version of the QB. he runs a lot, throws out of the pocket. McNabb used to be a running QB, but he got too fat.
By lawton
October 28, 2005 02:40 AM | Link to this
no, u guys dont get it. what terrence is really saying is this, until vick wins a championship, it doenst matter what vick does. he did this at va tech. he dazzled, but came up short. its like the braves division champ. run. who cares, they dont win the big one. same with vick and im one of his biggest fans. vicks problem is the offensive system itself, the west coast doenst fit a qb with a big arm like vick. end of story.
By Great Falconi
October 28, 2005 04:26 AM | Link to this
Okay, folks. Let’s get this straight: Vick doesn’t win games. The team wins games. He is a very important part of the team, but the team can’t win if the team doesn’t play well.
Now, while it’s true that Vick is a below-average passer, he can do things with his feet that make up for some of the awful throws he unleashes. However, when you look at Vick’s first year as a starter (2002), the offense was tailored to fit him. He was able to roll out and have multiple options on plays. The offensive linemen, because the offense was tailored for Vick, were able to give him better protection when he started to improvise. Since he wasn’t being forced to play within a particular system such as the West Coast offense, he was able to do the things that he was able to consistently do the things he is good at. As far as his progression in the West Coast, the only thing I see Vick doing well is hitting Crumpler on seams. While that is a very important play in the West Coast system, you can’t throw to your tight end all game long. He absolutely has to figure out how to make every throw required in the offense…or they need to keep the current running game and switch to a new type of passing offense that plays to Vick’s strengths.
Just a final note here. I have no doubt that some people out there have a problem with a black QB. I also have no doubt that the vast majority of Falcon fans who criticize Vick know that he (black or white) is not a good passer in this offense. They want to see improvement from a guy who is getting paid a huge amount of money and who is built up so heavily by the league and the organization. No one can convince me that Vick is the “future” of quarterbacks because teams want guys who can read defenses and make the proper throws. Black or white, he isn’t (up to now) good at it. McNabb is good at it. Warren Moon was good at it. Randall Cunningham was good at it. McNair was good at it. Kordell Stewart and Quincy Carter weren’t good at it. Aaron Brooks is so up and down that I don’t know what he is good at. Culpepper needs Moss back, I guess. The list of crappy white quarterbacks is very long, but you can look around at some young guys (Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, A.J. Feeley, Tim Rattay, J.P. Losman) and see examples of guys who don’t understand how to read coverages. Granted, if any of those guys could run like Vick, maybe they would be valuable and lead their teams to wins. In the end, if the Falcons want to win a Super Bowl, they will need a lot more growth from Vick as a QB to get there and win it. A running game can only carry you so far. You have to be able to throw the ball in the NFL to win against good defenses, plain and simple. I sound like Ron Jaworski. I hate the guy, but he’s right.
By TRU_ATL_FAN
October 28, 2005 06:33 AM | Link to this
PEOPLE PEOPLE MY FIRST QUESTION WHO CALLS THE PLAYS? IS IT MIKE OR GREGG K. MY GUESS SINCE I’M NOT REALLY ON HTE FIELD DURING GAMES, IS THAT IT IS GREGG K. And because its Greg calling a bootleg play and not hte 2 minute offense that Vick runs the ball and doesn’t have a good pass. But no you Falcon fakes don’t think so do you. you expect Vick to call an audible and disregard his coaches I mean who are they. Vick should have his own game plan and draw x’s and o’s in the sand during the huddle. YOu dumb mother #%^^ers youe people are just ungratefull F$#$#ers. GO VICK SOME PEOPLE ACUALLY APPRECIATE WHAT YOUR DOING. AND BIG UP TO WARRICK DUNN AND THE DEFENSE BECAUSE ITS STILL A TEAM SPORT
By Steve
October 28, 2005 07:04 AM | Link to this
Man, some of you folks really need to calm the heck down. There’s no call for the all-caps “yelling” or swearing at other folks because you don’t agree with their opinons.
Look, short of kidnapping the Falcons coaching staff and drugging them, we’re never actually going to find out what they think of Vick (hmmm…what an idea! LOL). To some extent, if we want a qualified opinion, we have to listen to sports writers and commentators. I suspect that no one posting in this forum played in the NFL…which means that by and large we’re about as qualified as nothing to make definitive statements.
The best we can do is look to the facts…which are inconclusive and therefore mean there are valid questions about Vick. He is an amazing physical talent, there’s no doubt about that and I don’t believe that anyone has disputed it. But playing QB in the NFL is more than having a big (and innacurate) arm and running ability…ask John Elway, ask Steve Young, ask Donovan McNabb. Elway and Young are particularly good examples, because they didn’t win jack (other than the occasional regular season game) until they learned to play within their systems. While Vick has always thrilled (and produced to some extent) with his feet, statistically his passing is getting worse. That’s not a good thing for the Falcons.
My point earlier regarding Schaub is that he appears to work within the system much better than Vick. His numbers indicate that. I understand that the team has lost when he’s played…but they were narrow losses and I’d like to see what he’d do with 2-3 consecutive starts to develop some rhythm. Look at the game he started this year in particular…as the second half started he began to develop rhythm, and the team nearly took the game. If the game had been 5 minutes longer they’d have likely won it.
The Falcons already have good RBs…they need Vick to be a QB. He’s got all the potential in the world, it’s time he start developing it. If he continues to play the way he does, then you’re going to continue to get the same results: 1. Wins against weak teams, flame outs in the playoffs (and regular season) when you face good defenses. 2. Vick being hurt on a regular basis (which will shorten his career) and having to play backup QBs or a gimpy Vick.
One last note…no offensive coordinator is going to endlessly call plays that get his QB killed. Boot-action plays in the NFL are typically designed as passes, not runs. Vick essentially audibilizes all the time because his inability to read a D and work a progression means that the plays are constantly breaking down. Vick is more or less drawing plays in the sand…unfortuantely he’s not letting anyone else on the offense in on what he’s drawing. Which is why his leading receivers are RBs and TEs…guys close to the line of scrimmage that can see he’s blown the play and “help” him.
By Jim
October 28, 2005 07:52 AM | Link to this
How can Hank Aaron be permited to make the comments he did regarding the make up of the Houston ball club? If Bob Petit (sp?) former Hawk great, who is white, would have asked the same question about the current Atlanta Hawks, he would be run out of town. Seems like there is a double standard in the coverage given Mr. Aaron.
By paul
October 28, 2005 08:55 AM | Link to this
All you people with ur tongues up vicks a.. because he is black are sickos. Go rob a bank or something and leave football discussion to people with a brain (and job).
By Steve
October 28, 2005 09:08 AM | Link to this
paul, with due respect…can we leave any racial slurs/implications out of this please? And that goes for others who keep harping on it, whether pro or anti Vick. Dragging race into this just shows how small-minded and ignorant you are, regardless of which side of the argument you’re on.
Vick’s inability to read a D or work a progression has nothing to do with his race. There are plenty of white QBs that can’t do it, and there are plenty of black QBs (Moon, Leftwich and McNabb for starters) who can.
This is about whether Vick is making progress in either of those areas (I don’t see it), whether the coaching staff is trying to move him down that path (they don’t appear to be…way to much back slapping going on) and whether the Falcons will find playoff success in a meaningful way with Vick doing what he’s currently doing (I don’t think so).
Race has no place in this discussion.
By ATLien4Life
October 28, 2005 09:17 AM | Link to this
Jim, you couldn’t be a bigger fool if you tried. We did have a white man on the team. Unfortunately, he just died.
On to Vick, do you guys seem to just forget that in last years ProBowl, behind a decent pass blocking line and some good receivers, Vick had far and away the best throwing day of anyone, INCLUDING Peyton Manning??? Wake me up the day any of these “great passers” make the play when it really matters. The only other two quarterbacks who can make the big plays when really needed in big games right now other than Vick are McNabb and Brady.
By ATLien4Life
October 28, 2005 09:22 AM | Link to this
That said, he did have a HORRIBLE game on Monday night.
By Rob D
October 28, 2005 09:23 AM | Link to this
We play in the weakest conference; I hear that on alot, well this weakest conference has had a representative in the NFC championship game the last three seasons and 2 in the superbowl in the last three years. I would hate to see it stronger. I hope Vick doesn’t have to play in the ATL long, cause its nice to play in a city that supports you through the thick and thin. He sells out every stadium he plays in because he is Micahel Vick, and its like nothing any fan has seen before. But I guess since we see it week to week, its old now and doesn’t excite us anymore. But when #7 got to overtime against the Vikes in that memorabile playoff game and broke off that run, who on here sees that play now and can scoff how talented that he is.
By Matt
October 28, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this
People, we are 5-2. That’s all that we should be talking about. We should all be used to the dribble that comes out of Moore’s mouth by now. We know that Vick needs to improve his passing, fine, but get over it. I like winning and being in the position to win. Have we all forgotten that we were in the NFC championship game last year. DVD runs, defense sacks, we win, it’s that simple. For all of you that don’t like winning, shut your mouth and don’t break your leg when you jump back on the band-waggon.
By Steve
October 28, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this
Please…let’s be serious. When you’re looking to stats/play in the Pro Bowl you’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel. I believe that defense is actually illegal at the Pro Bowl.
By ATLien4Life
October 28, 2005 10:13 AM | Link to this
My point exactly, Steve. With this line, and these receivers, facing live bullets, Vick wouldn’t last past week 5. A quarterback is in far more danger taking blindside hits that can give him concussions than he is taking off. Steve Young’s career ended because he took one too many hits “hanging in the pocket”.
By ATLien4Life
October 28, 2005 10:15 AM | Link to this
My point exactly. If facing live bullets, Vick wouldn’t last past week 5 if he tried to stay in the pocket and throw. Steve Young’s career didn’t end because of scrambling; it ended because of blindside hits in the pocket.
By Marc Lucier
October 28, 2005 10:32 AM | Link to this
I wonder what would make you guys happy? Matt Schaub? His greatest value is as trade bait for a draft pick or other position need. Mike Vick is one of the best QB’s in the league regardless of stats. It’s 3rd and 6, how do you defend Atlanta? you cant. Ease up, and enjoy he wins, and the exciting brand of play….I have heart attacks when he gets ragdolled too, and I KNOW he needs to improve his accuracy. Hell, you probably could improve at your job too! If the team was losing I could see the grumbling….but they are doing GREAT! What does it take to please you?
By Steve
October 28, 2005 10:50 AM | Link to this
Well, since you asked Marc…
It takes some demonstrated improvement in areas we all know Vick is deficient in. I think that’s all anyone, even his most harsh critics, is looking for. I would be extremely cautious about saying that Schaub’s only value is as “trade bait”. He has demonstrated the ability to lead this offense, with what so many of you deem to be a sub-standard line and bad recievers, to decent performances.
There’s not a doubt in my mind that re-signing Schaub will be a huge priority for the Falcons, not trading him. The question in that case will be whether Schaub is content to sit behind Vick (I seriously doubt it). I believe that the only way Schaub re-signs with ATL is if the owner/coach guarantee him a legitimate shot at displacing Vick. If they don’t, he’ll play out his contract and go elsewhere…or the Falcons will have no choice but to trade him and get what they can for him. If that happens, it won’t be because the Falcons don’t want him around.
ATLien…you’re right, Young’s career was shortened because of all the concussions he’d amassed. But he didn’t get all those concussions by sitting in the pocket, did he? Nope…he got plenty of them by running early in his career and getting blasted by linebackers and safties. Towards the end of his career, Young was forced to play behind a legitimately bad O-line in SF. I don’t think you can say the Falcons line is legitimately bad…they seem to block well enough for the RBs, and Schaub seems to get plenty of protection from them as well.
By Matt
October 28, 2005 11:02 AM | Link to this
Blah,blah,blah, it’s the same crap everyday. We are complaining as if the Falcons have always been good. They haven’t, but they are now. The whole team is excelling despite sometimes looking like the contents in the toilet after a night of drinking. We have suffered in this town for a long time when it comes to the Falcons. We have been to one Super Bowl, and we shouldn’t have been there in the first place. And then there was Chris Chandler, Chris Miller, Billy Joe Tolliver, Iron Head Hayward, the list goes on and on. Let’s just be stoked about 5-2 and a bye week to get healthy. The fair weather fans in this town really diminish the excitment that the real Falcon fans feel.
By ATLien4Life
October 28, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this
Steve, I never said our line was “bad”. Every NFL expert agrees that our line is built for aggressive run-blocking, which they do extremely well. The problem is that they are undersized, and get beat up easily if they try to form a solid pocket around Vick.
Remember, too, what while Schaub had a great statistical game that day, we LOST, primarily because our running game amassed only 116 yards as a team, which is just half of what we normally do. We didn’t sustain the long drives we needed to keep our defense off the field.
By e.b.
October 28, 2005 12:18 PM | Link to this
Steve, I don’t think Vick’s arm is inaccurate. I was looking at his college stats, and although he threw more in college, he still didn’t rely much on his arm. We all know he has a strong arm, and some receivers have even complained that his passes are too hard, but you must put some of the blame on these receivers. I’ve seen these guys drop more than their share of passes. I think it is a combination of Vick not have confidence yet in the system, and also confidence in tossing to these guys. I really wish in the off season, the Falcons would go out and get him some seasoned Wideouts. Vick will get the job done, this is only is 3rd full season as starting QB. People need to stop worrying, but also realize not every game he has is going to be a highlight reel either.
By Steve
October 28, 2005 12:20 PM | Link to this
See, what I’m having a hard time with (OK…one of the things I’m having a hard time with) is this ATLien:
You write that the O-line has problems forming a decent pocket for Vick. Then you immediately acknowledge that Schaub had a good game and put up good numbers. He did that, in part, because the O-line protected him in the pocket.
The line isn’t bad for Vick and good for Schaub. They are what they are. The difference is that Schaub understands how to use the pocket and stays where his line knows he’ll be, which enables them to protect him. Because Vick gets (let’s call it what it is) happy feet and flees the pocket, the line looks bad and Vick…when he eventually gets hit…keeps getting injured.
Mike needs to concentrate on developing his pocket presence and ability…even though he’s a great runner. And the coaching staff needs to hold him accountable for making those improvements.
Vick is a helluva threat right now, but he’s not a two-way threat because his passing ability is, by and large, a joke on the NFL level. As someone wrote earlier, a defense capable of stopping the Falcons running game (and make no mistake, those defenses do exist) and forcing Vick to pass is more than capable of beating the Falcons. And it’s inevitable when you get into the playoffs and have to face good teams that you’ll run into that kind of D. And you may very well come face-to-face with that type of D in about 3 weeks when you play Tampa Bay. Other than TB, you’re in a pretty weak division and the rest of your schedule is pretty soft (Green Bay, Chicago, New Orleans). I don’t fault the team for playing weak opponents, the schedule is what it is. But I think the playoffs will be a rude awakening, when the pushover teams are all setting tee times.
By Steve
October 28, 2005 12:32 PM | Link to this
e.b., I hear what you’re saying. But the problem I have with your argument is that Schaub has demonstrated he can step on the field and work with the same receivers with no problem. I just don’t see this as a WR issue.
A Vick-type QB is able to succeed in college because defenses are not as solid from a scheme perspective, nor are they as talented physically as an NFL defense. Eric Crouch and Charlie Ward are two fine examples…great hybrid RB/QB types in college who couldn’t cut it in the NFL (yeah, I know Ward never played…why do you think that is…and Crouch tried to catch on as a WR/DB but failed).
To this point, Mike Vick has been more hype than substance as an NFL QB. I absolutely bow down to him from a purely athletic standpoint. And I know he’s got all the potential in the world. But he’s got to start developing his passing ability to the point where he can hit something with regularity other than 5 yard dink/dunk passes to TEs and RBs.
As for me…I’m out. No sense in endlessly rehashing the same points I’ve been trying to make since last night. I’m confident I’ll be proven right as time passes.
By Shiney
October 28, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this
MAN I AM SIC AN TIRE OF U PEEPS THAT STIL THING VICK IS THE BEST QB EVER HE NEVER WON THE BIG GAME HE LOOSE 2 EAGELS TWICE IN PLAYOFS AND THEN MONDAY NITE HE LOOK LIE A COLLAGE PLAYER ALL CONFUESD AN THROUGHING 3 PIKS GET REAL PEEPS FLACONS WILL NEVER GO 2 SUPERBOWEL WITH VICK UNLESS VICK PLAY RB OR WR.
By e.b.
October 28, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this
Steve, that was one game that Schaub did that, and he lost. Don’t forget, this is only Vick’s 3rd full season at QB, and he really does need to get used to this system. This is also his 3rd coach, although Phillips & Reeves were kinda the same deal. Also, Schaub ran a west coast offense in college, and that is precisely why the Falcons got him. Also, the Falcons really should get some seasoned WR’s for Vick to work with. Not all these errant passes are on Vick. I’ve seen alot of dropped passes by this Corp as well. It takes time, it really does. However, this is the complaint we should have if were were 2-5, not 5-2.
By Big D
October 28, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this
steve, are you secretly dating schaub on the down low or did vick reject your advances toward him. The only reason why schaub put up those numbers against the patriots is because the patriots decided to place importance on stoping the run, thus giving schaub all day to throw. they did not send the blitz after schaub, so they(patriots)choose to stop the run as oppose to the pass and it worked. they gave up the 20 yard pass , they knew that schaub was not going to run so this made the defense relax and concentrate on stoping dunn and duckett. i will admit that vick throws very hard, and when a QB throws like he does good recievers are required. the falcons recievers are average or below, such a cast really can make a QB look bad if they consistently drop passes. all those QBs that you guys have been refering to like young and mcnabb etc. all had or have pro bowl recievers, besides cumpler the rest of the falcon recievers could not even start on most teams. a QB is only as good as his recievers.
By BUSHWACKER
October 28, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this
Knapp and Mora know they have a mule More like a cheetah!!
Wouln’t you love to know who would win a 100 yard dash race between Vick and Dieon and Herschel in their prime!!!
By BUSHWACKER
October 28, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this
When I saw Deion Sanders in person in his first Falcons game when he ran back that punt it was unlike anything I have ever seen live and I ‘ve been going to pro and college games since the early 70’s. It was electricfying how fast he was in person.
Has anyone out there seen Deion amd Vick in person and how do they compare speed wise?
If Vick is anywhere near as fast as Deion was,consider yourself lucky because your are witnessing something very special!!
By Big D
October 28, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this
i think vick is quicker than deion, however, deion would have been faster in the 100yd dash. herschel was not as quick as deion but he probally would be about the same as deion in 100 yds.
By Steve
October 28, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this
That’s it “Big D”…there’s no better way to win an argument than to question the sexuality of the person you’re debating. You must have gone to Harvard or Yale to learn that tactic.
Of course, the only problem with your point is that I doubt Ron Mexico would reject anyone, man or woman.
Now…to get the focus back on the receivers. You say that Young had great receivers, and I’ll grant you that Taylor and Rice were all-time. But until last year McNabb had nobodies, and was still a better passer than Vick. As for Elway…without going to an outside reference, name 3 WRs he played with on the Broncos.
Once again…if the receivers are so bad, then how come Schaub looks so good throwing to them, and they look so good catching his passes?
You’d better figure it out “Big D”…good defenses can take away parts of your game. Just like the Patriots took away the Falcons running game (with a less-than-normal Patriots D). The problem arises when your QB is incapable of passing when the running game has been taken away. Don’t worry, I’m absolutely sure you’re going to get a great idea of what that looks like when you play Tampa Bay. And you’ll likely see it again during the playoffs.
Of course, that’s assuming Vick is still upright by then.
By David
October 28, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this
Mr. Moore, I’m sorry to be the one to burst your bubble, but the article you just wrote made absolutely no sense whatsoever! What does Hershel Walker, Dominique Wilkins, Andrew Jones and Michael Vick have to do with one another? They are all completely different athletes and there is no connection between them at all with the exception that Herchell played the same sport as Michael Vick but at a different position. This type of sensational journalism is completely uncalled for. Of course, all of those athletes thrilled us beyond our wildest dreams, and if that’s the connection then I stand corrected, but they are all completely different athletes with completely different skill levels and talents and I fail to see the similarities between them! Additionally, Michael Vick is unlike anything we have ever seen. If Mike continues to improve at the QB position — he will certainly redefine the quarterback position. No doubt about it!!! But that will ONLY happen if he continues to improve and develop a pocket-passing game that includes the ability to throw the deep ball as his understudy Matt Shaub is capable of doing. By the way, I was appauled by the article in yesterday’s paper regarding Michael Vick in his self-righteousness saying how great he is and that he is better than 90% of the starting QB’s in the leaque. That is totally ridiculous!! There are no QB’s in the league other than Mike Vick who has a QB rating of 16.5, so I would venture to say that Mike Vick is the worst QB in the league, period! Mike Vick can’t even throw the ball as accurately as his backup QB here in the ATL, Matt Schaub. Matt can throw as well as ANY QB in the history of the NFL, which includes the likes of Bradshaw, Stabler, Tarkenton, Montana, Fouts, Marino, Mannings (Eli and Payton), Elway, etc. The fact of the matter is that Shaub is the greatest talent in the HISTORY OF THE NFL, PERIOD!!! He is another Brett Farve just waiting to be discovered. I say trade Mike Vick now before its too late, and trade him to Indianapolis where you can get great talent in return for him — maybe Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and Brandon Stokely and just let Shaub be the starter. Then you would see the Falcons start winning with regularity and winning a Superbowl this year and in the years to come. Mike Vick is full of himeself, when he comes out in the paper yesterday saying how great he is, coming fresh off the heels of a 16.5 QB rating which is atrocious!! Anyone with a rating of that score should be cut from his team and thrown out of the league. Vick is nothing but an arogant prima dona who thinks he is God’s gift to mankind after seeing himself on ESPN every night hearing Shawn Salisbury say he can win the Superbowl. Vick can’t win anything with a QB rating of 16.5. He’ll have to vastly improve that number before I even consider him a great talent. There are probably 25-30 QB’s in the league with a higher rating than 16.5, so I think Michael has a long way to go before you can start calling him great. He’ll have to win a superbowl in order to silence the critics such as myself. Absolutely, Mike Vick wins 67% of the games that he starts, which is why you can’t go by the QB rating system when evaluating Mike Vick. If he learns, and I believe he will, to throw the deep ball with confidence and pin-point precision, he’ll end up redefining the QB position, and set a new standard for prototypical quarterbacks in the 21st century!!! Yes, Michael Vick was born to thrill and he is truly the mezmorizer on the football field. As much as it hurts me to see him struggle throwing the football, he comes off the field after the final gun goes off each Sunday with a “W” and that’s more than 90% of the other QB’s in the league, so I guess in a roundabout way I agree with Mike’s assessment of himself — and I am certainly glad that he’s in the ATL and has #7 pasted across his cape. But hopefully when the bell rings for Shaub, I hope he’ll come in and show us what he can do. Go Atlanta! - all the way to the Superbowl.
By bigcooterb
October 28, 2005 05:28 PM | Link to this
If Michael Vick’s game was as big as his ego, the Falcon’s would be undefeated.
By ironfeet01
October 28, 2005 06:50 PM | Link to this
I have read all these recent posts and I don’t understand all the drama. We are in the midst of something special. This city has never had a franchise that’s on the verge of greatness like the Falcons are. They have lost 2 games by a total of 6 points. And as I recall, #7 was not the reason we lost. You cannot compare Vick to any QB in the game. His presence on the field almost guarantees a Falcon’s win. Just stop all the arguing and appreciate this run. If you can’t, please get of of the bandwagon.
By e.b.
October 28, 2005 11:53 PM | Link to this
Hey falconi, it took mcNabb several years to figure out the West Coast offense. this is Vick’s 2nd season. I think you should give him time as well.
By e.b.
October 29, 2005 12:02 AM | Link to this
Steve, why do u have to stoop to the Ron Mexico thing, isn’t that kinda dated & unproven. This isn’t a discussion about sexual preference. I think Big D made some good points, although Crumpler one of the best TE’s out there. Steve, you’re also wrong about McNabb. He wasn’t a great passer until TO got there. I should know, I live right near Philly, I get their games all the time. He was no for errant passes, most of the time throwing at the receivers feet. McNabb used to be more of a runner too, but he’s packed on the weight. he says the reason he doesn’t run anymore, is because he doesn’t want to be the racial stereotypical running QB, which I think is nonsense. TO has made McNabb look good, although this year that team is way too one-dimensional, and it appears very beatable. KC had them beat, if Janikowski didn’t blow 2 FG’s, the Raiders had the Eagles beat, and you saw the debacle last week against San Diego, where Philly’s offense couldn’t do anything right. But the fact remains, McNabb throws too much, and many times he rushes his passes. He’s very overrated.
By Marc Lucier
October 29, 2005 12:04 AM | Link to this
“…..the fact of the matter is that Schaub is the greatest talent in the HISTORY OF THE NFL, PERIOD!!!….” Man, I don’t usually take shots, but you obviously must have…from the bar that you got all liquored up at before you wrote that post. I’ve seen some dumb crap written before, but that takes the proverbial cake. I won’t tear down every sentence, or try to dissect your logic. Suffice it to say that your observation was so idiotic as to make me think you were just the aforementioned Mr.Schaub, on the Blog undercover just trying to hack people off for giggles. Now I want you to follow my instructions very carefully. Unplug your playstation, and close your fantay account. There is a REAL game that the other neighborhood kids probably never picked you for—its called FOOTBALL! Learn about it! And once you learn what its all about, you won’t come in the blog spewing THAT crap anymore. Selah!
By e.b.
October 29, 2005 12:16 AM | Link to this
correction david, you show a show a true fan perhaps, but not a good one at that. If you’re not a fan of the guy or the team, then I have no clue why you’re even on this message board. Mr. Kitchens, great points. Terence Moore is a sad sack of s**, just like these idiots who come on this board because they are Vick haters.
By Steve
October 29, 2005 06:18 AM | Link to this
The Ron Mexico reference was a joke (seriously though…you actually doubt that happened) in response to “Big D“‘s blithering.
While McNabb wasn’t a great passer before TO got there…he was better than Vick is now, and that’s all I wrote. He was also saddled with Pinkston and Mitchell, 2 guys who could have made Payton Manning look bad. McNabb was once more of a runner, but he has stopped because he (and any NFL QB) is more effective playing from the pocket with the occasional run. McNabb’s scrambling has been curtailed this season because he’s injured. Perhaps you’ve heard…bruised sternum and a sports hernia. Those will tend to discourage your moving (the sternum also doesn’t help with throwing). McNabb “throws too much” because the Eagles have no running game or haven’t chosen to develop one this year. Please tell my you don’t think McNabb is audibilizing to passes 60 times a game.
I won’t disagree with you that McNabb is somewhat overrated…but he’s still a better passer than Vick. A skill he developed…one that Vick should develop but doesn’t seem to be willing to. Look at Mike’s passing stats…they’re getting worse (on a game-to-game basis as well as a season-to-season one).
Being critical of Vick is not the same as being down on the Falcons. Some of you folks really need to get a grip.
By e.b.
October 29, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this
Well, if you’re going to say McNabb was saddled w/ Pinkston & Mitchell, I can say the same thing for Vick. His receivers haven’t been that great either. TO did save the day in Philly, despite his antics. Any sportswriter from Philly will tell you that. Steve, there’s no need to stick-up for Mc-FLAB, as we locals like to call him. You can say it’s injury, others (like myself) will claim the guy packed on way too much weight. He’s clocking in at 265 lbs right now. A bit too heavy for a QB, and even before this year his numbers were dropping in the running game. The guy is too FAT, not too injured. While you could say the Eagles have no running game, thus they pass too much, one could say the very opposite of the Falcons. They have no passing game, because they haven’t given Vick a deep threat yet. The guy they thought they did - Peerless price was a bust. Also, the Eagles did have a running game 2 seasons ago, when they had Buckhalter & Westbrook sharing the backfield -AND, they were quite effective.
By Robert S.
November 1, 2005 08:33 AM | Link to this
Let me see if I have this right. MV, is a lefty, right? what I see in his passing game is that the ball floats nose up when he throw the ball. The ball is there for the guys to catch. Once MV, can get the nose of the ball down. Am I the only one that see this? Once he get a good grasp of the WC, offence then I’m sure we’ll start to see some wonderful things in our PG. Only time will tell~~~
By Oren
November 1, 2005 07:38 PM | Link to this
I have to hand it to you Terence. That was one of the most ridiculous columns I’ve ever read, yet you probably accomplished your goal. If your intent was to stimulate a lot of response, you did very well. I agree with one idea you had - Anyone who is tired of Vick or Andruw, or was tired of ‘Nique is definately spoiled. And not much of a fan at all.
By PSack
November 2, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this
THE FOOTBALL GOLDEN RULE
PUT THE DAMN BALL In the hands of your playmaker. Therefore if you make plays with your arm GOOD!! If you make plays with your feet or LEGS GOOD!!
To SCORE you have to touch the ball…or the puck. Vick happens to be our BEST PLAYMAKER….so he has to touch the ball….
The more touches Vick gets the more likely something good is going to happen
In short…it’s all good
By c00k1e
November 2, 2005 05:09 PM | Link to this
1 i’m a football coach. not in nflbut i’ve worked at d-1 university and currently coach (part-time, in real life i have to work for living as a network engineer) at a well-known HS powerhouse football program here in Los Angeles. (no football team - you guys s/be grateful that a backwater city w/less than 750k pop even has a team so you ought to support them better.
3 i’m black 4 i dont mean to denigrate him butmr. moore has a stu scott or steven a. smith complex except he ain’t on espn becuase he sounds like a raving lunatic most of the time i slip-up and read his column
5 high school, college and nfl coachesALL would NEVER throw the ball if they could win w/good defense and powerful running. balance is over-rated. check N.E. or PITT
6 the wideouts on a team that runs a lot are usually NOT going to have big #’s 7 vick is a nightmare for def coords.to scheme against because of his athletic challenge. i could scheme as most nfl d-coords will tell you, they’d rather let schaub or whatever his name is, throw 40 passes a game then let vick run for 100. because that means they are getting beat by the run. coaches HATE that because it means the def is on the filed all day and it produces short fields and good down/distance situations.
8 a lot of atl sports fans seem want gov. maddox back to run sports at least from the sound of it. 9 the guys who uses caps and spells poorly is doiung it to rile as many folks as he/she can. 10 if vick didnt play in atlanta the falcons would be LUCKY to be televisedbeyond fulton or cobb or whatever the hell county they play in.
11 in the nfl and most pro sports the best at the position plays. period.so all this talk about the backup is hilarious. ask any of the falcons and i’d be willing to bet they will tell you that vick is a better qb for them or the other guy [schaub?] would be playing. this isnt elementary touch or pop warner football. vick is helping to put bread in these guys mouths and pockets.
i really like atlanta and plan to relocate there but i wont be rooting for the falcons or the b-raves
atlanta sports fans needs to remove or cut down on the backwoods elmer fudd racist s-n-r.
By ch
November 3, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this
I read the comments and came to a conclusion. When you are great people will always find ways to bring you down. Thats sad. .