Sports Columnists

By Max Sizemore

October 10, 2005 09:34 PM | Link to this

No, Schuerholz will find a way to keep Furcal. He’s too important, and too good. Schuerholz pays for key everyday players, and starting pitching. NOT relief pitching. Oh, sorry. Guess you already knew that.

By Mike Dougher

October 10, 2005 09:35 PM | Link to this

Did you really think this was the best team in the NL?

By John Davis

October 10, 2005 10:15 PM | Link to this

You have hit the nail on the head. I started calling it The Curse Of Leyritz years ago. Wohlers was never the same pitcher again, though thankfully he didn’t take the Donnie Moore route. Hopefully Farnsworth is undergoing heavy hypnotic therapy even as we speak.

By Eric

October 10, 2005 10:17 PM | Link to this

Mark, you used a lot of words in your article that reflect very deep emotions: hurt, bitter, etc. and you were being understated. A look at the blogs over the past 24 hours reveals an even higher-charged emotional state.

This prompts me to ask you to make a try at something. Give us your take on why we are fans, especially rabid fans. What psychological instincts drive us to attach ourselves to a team and react with such deep-seated emotions? Do we pin our identities to a team so that we can feel personal success when the team succeeds? If so, is that why we tend to be so vicious and unforgiving when the team fails, which we perceive as a betrayal of our hopes of removing failure in our own lives? For what possible reason could a little boys’ game played by wealthy men reduce us to tears or cause us to scream with joy? Why does a sport, a team, a player so capture us that we can be caught up in mass hysteria or even become a destructive and violent mob?

I’m convinced that it goes well beyond civic pride and ordinary vicarious pleasure. I believe that there is something genetic that projects to our individual psyches and serves as a kind of alter ego. We take the Braves/Dawgs/Falcons/Jackets/etc. personally, our reputations are at stake. Why?

If you are willing to take a crack at this, I recommend that you start by reading through the post-game blogs to get a sense of the phenomenon. However you do it, I would be very interested in your views.

By Gritz Blitz

October 10, 2005 10:33 PM | Link to this

For those of you who think Atlanta fans are too harsh on the Braves for not winning it all, please take some time to read the NY newspapers and blogs tomorrow should the Yankees lose tonight(currently down 5-2 in the 6th). Remember, this is a team that has reached the playoffs 10 consecutive years and has won 4 World Series Titles in that same period. I think you will find our blogs to be child’s play by comparison.

By Carroll

October 10, 2005 10:35 PM | Link to this

Again, we should NOT break the bank to keep Furcal! WHAT HAS HE DONE??!! One good month this season! What’s wrong with you people?! He’s a TERRIBLE leadoff man! No thanks! We can choke in the playoffs without ya pal!

Besides, You know the budget constraints! If we pay to keep furcal, we’re destined to have a pen full of retards, retreads, has-beens and never-will-be’s AGAIN!

Mark is right to the extent that either way we’ll likely have the same result. It will go something like this: Braves roll into spring vacation in March where BC always fails to get them in shape so they come out of the box slumping, fall 5-10 games back then by the middle of June we get hot, after the all star break we catch the 1st place team, build a comfy lead, then we’re so tired and complacent that we coast into the playoffs where BC will start his usual poor decision-making, and Chipper will do his dissapearing act, then it all starts over again.

Tell me again why we shouldn’t get a new manager and/or replace the dead “heart” of this team (Chumper Jones) and try to infuse a new team concept?! SWEET LOU! SWEET LOU! SWEET LOU!!

By Ryan

October 10, 2005 10:42 PM | Link to this

Actually, it doesn’t hurt worse with each passing year.

It gets easier.

Because we’ve become accustomed to it.

We’re desensitized to losing in October.

It’s why the seats are empty every post-season.

And we all know it.

Atlanta fans spoiled?

No.

But for every heartache Boston fans suffered over 86 years…

…we’ve had compressed into 15.

There are only so many punches to the gut you can take before you stop lining up for them.

By Carroll

October 10, 2005 10:46 PM | Link to this

On a different note, this Angels-Yanks game is so hillarious! You know the anouncers and FOX execs are pulling their hair out at the thought of an Angels-ChiSox LCS. I’ve never heard announcers more critical of umpiring. It’s a good thing I suppose because since this keeps happening with the perceived lesser teams polluting the LCS and WS every year, maybe the big network execs will put the pressure on Selig to change this ignorant playoff system.

By the way, I wish just one of our players had half the cajones of these guys playing tonight. Jeter would have caught that pop foul yesterday even if it was 3 rows in the stands. Their starting pitcher faulters midway through inning 2 and yet their pen is up to the challenge. They come back from deficits and in general show heart. Must be nice!

By Joseph Allen McWhorter

October 10, 2005 10:47 PM | Link to this

Mark, the Braves can finally put an end to their October miseries a year from now but they are going to either have to trade for or sign players through free agency who have a true passion for the game when the playoffs come around. The Braves used to have such players but management foolishly traded them away. I am talking about the likes of David Justice, Brian Jordan, and Marquis Grissom. Players of that caliber had attitude and energy and they played with fire in October. Since the Braves traded those players away, they have been faltering in postseason. Yes, they had Brian Jordan this year, but he was injured most of the year and was not a factor. The only thing I know that the Braves can do to finally turn their postseason blues around is to get out and get players in the offseason who play with fire, energy, passion, and a sense of urgency in offseason. The Braves already have a few players like that, but not enough. And I partly blame Bobby Cox as well for the postseason failures. He must learn that managing in postseason is entirely different that managing in regular season. The business man approach that he has for the game during regular season just doesn’t cut it in October. The Braves never seem to play with a sense of urgency in the playoffs and I personally think that that is partially a reflection of the manager. It is just time for Mr. Schuerholtz to sit down and really analyze the roster make some major changes to alter the dynamics of this team. Right now, I think the Braves partly have a psychological block when it comes to postseason, but there problems in postseason go much deeper than that. The dynamics of the team need to be changed drastically! That is my own personal opinion.

By Carroll

October 10, 2005 10:53 PM | Link to this

Mark: do you know the details of BC supposedly telling fans to eat dirt? I hope it is either incorrect or taken out of context. If not, he should be fired for that alone or at least repremanded and ordered to make a formal, public apology. After all the crap he’s put us through, he’s lucky ANYONE comes out to see this sorry bunch and that there are gullable Braves fans out there who would defend him if he pushed little old ladies in front of speeding buses.

By Deck

October 10, 2005 10:57 PM | Link to this

Need to change name to Autum Braves.They are as predictable as fall.

By Eric

October 10, 2005 11:09 PM | Link to this

Carroll, I know you and Rush Limbaugh are buddies, and the “eat dirt” thing is exactly the kind of outrageous lie that Limbaugh would convince his listeners is true. If you will read the “Going, going, gone” blog from 11:38pm to 11:54pm, you will see where that nonsense came from. Get a life.

By Gritz Blitz

October 10, 2005 11:10 PM | Link to this

“Braves fans out there who would defend him if he pushed little old ladies in front of speeding buses”

That is hilarious! In part because it is true. I liken the relationship of Bobby Cox and Atlanta to a guy that always dated marginal women but finally landed a hottie. She ends up putting him through years of grief but he doesn’t want to give her up for fear that he will be back to dating marginal women.

By Carroll

October 10, 2005 11:17 PM | Link to this

Eric: back in the corner, and put the damned dunce cap back on…NOW! Gayfer ;-)

By Skip

October 10, 2005 11:33 PM | Link to this

I can understand the idea of spending more $$ to get a better bullpen, some big bats, etc. However, watching the Stankees tonight, with their huge payroll, they may not even make it past the first round either. It seems evident that it is not how much money a team spends on players, but the chemistry and heart of the players on the team. The Braves have tried bringing in high dollar players (Sheffield) in the past and have not had any more success than they have now. It is up to Schuerholz to get the right type of players to complement the young guys, even at the expense of sacrificing one or two of the veterans. It’s also BC’s responsibility to put the players in position to succeed during the playoff games. The attitude and performance of the team, especially in the playoffs, is dictated by the leadership in the dugout and BC must be accountable, like him or not.

By Matthew

October 10, 2005 11:59 PM | Link to this

I said during Spring Training that I was done with the Braves, and man, am I glad a stayed away.

Nice to see (and read the 1000 blogs) that may of y’all have come around to finally blaming Bobby Cox.

My attitude about Cox has always been, if you give him his due credit for his wonderful regular seasons, then he deserves just as much blame for his nightmarish postseasons.

Who (besides Johns Smoltz and Schuerholtz and Leo Mazzoni) has been the one, lone constant variable here in Atlanta during thsi miserable run of WORTHLESS division titles?

Bobby Cox.

The Bills had also done something no one else in the world has done, they made 4 straight Super Bowls.

But no one cares about that accomplishment because they LOST.

Outside of the AJC and some of the delusional fans in Atlanta, no one in the sports world cares that the Braves have won 14 straight divisions “titles.”

All they do is laugh when the enivitable happens.

But I mainly came here to say one thing.

Not only am I done with the Braves, I am done with baseball for the foreseeable future for what happened this weekend.

No, it’s not the Braves losing.

It’s the Comeback Player of the Year Award.

They gave this award to a cheater who got sick last year (thyroid tumor) from the junk he used to inhance his performance on the field.

They gave the award to Jason Giambi.

This sport has no credibility.

This sport has no heart.

This sport consistantly thumbs its nose at the fans, and I am sick of it.

F—- Major League Baseball.

And if the comment is true, and not just a rumor, then the same goes for Bobby Cox.

By ron

October 11, 2005 12:07 AM | Link to this

AOL can be blamed for this as much as anyone. They seem to want to spend just enogh to keep the team competitive (thus keeping the TBS and TS ratings up), but never enough to get them anywhere in the postseason. They care nothing of championships like Ted did and never will. It’s no coincidence that this dought started when they took over.

By J

October 11, 2005 12:20 AM | Link to this

I’ll stay with Mgr. Cox. I’ll stay with Gen. Mgr. Shuerholtz. Other than the Yankees, who also have a good manager, the Braves are the best organization in baseball. People who followed the Braves from 1966 to 1991, who saw the sweep by the amazin’ Mets of 1969, who saw the Cardinals sweep in the early 80’s, KNOW it is hard to win a pennant and with the never-ending playoff scheme in place, post season is, in many ways, a game of chance. This organization is not cursed - it’s blessed and will give its fickle fan base a World Series pennant again. Even if it doesn’t happen next year, there will be great baseball all summer at the Ted. Bet on it.

By Robert

October 11, 2005 12:30 AM | Link to this

I know what everyone is saying. How does this happen every year. I partially blame Cox. I have always thought he managed horribly in the playoffs. He manages not to lose instead of managing to win. I will tell you what upset me the most yesterday. Why did he take Hudson out of the game. He was pitching great. You know you’re bullpen is sorry and inexperienced. Farnsworth should have never been forced to get a 2 inning save. It was just stupid. I also agree that Furcal and Giles did nothing at the top of the lineup. I think Chipper and Andruw did what they could. But, how can you drive in runs when there are no runs to drive in? Fact is they blew it! They do lack heart. But, I think there is a light at the end of the tunnel. “The Baby Braves” are here to stay. Franceour, McCann, Langerhans, and Bettemit could be what they need. They could be what Justice, Gant, and Chipper (in his first two years)were in the early 90’s. These guys are talented! Management needs to sit down and evaluate the roster and decide who fits and who doesn’t. Some money needs to be spent to get some quality relief. Maybe Furcal should be let go. Get a cheaper option who has a little more fire burning. And I know people aren’t going to like this. But, how about initiating a trade with Boston for Manny Ramirez. I know Manny can be difficult, but he may be just what this team needs. They need to relax and go with the flow but realize when the sense of urgency is needed. Manny did it with the Sox last year and this year for that matter. Could it really be any worse? And lastly, if LaRoche had not loafed around the bases there would have been a game 5.

By Jman

October 11, 2005 12:51 AM | Link to this

Most of you guys arent even baseball fans! For someone to say that Bobby Cox is anything less than a wonderful manager is absurd! He’s only in the tp 5 in career managerial wins, and POSTSEASON wins, as well. Yes even with all of our postseason failures he is still near the top in that category as well! Chipper, Andruw and Smoltzie are the heart of this team! To get rid of them would be devastating to the Braves! I know what you are like though. You will whine and gripe and complain all off season then when we start winning again next year, you’l be back on the bandwagon. This run is nothing short of remarkable in today’s sports world. You guys really need to learn about baseball before you start making ridiculous and unfounded claims toward the team!

By Brian

October 11, 2005 01:01 AM | Link to this

If the Braves were willing to spend some money, this would be the perfect time for a big trade that could get them over the hump. They’ve got so many prospects that they don’t have a position for - Johnson, Marte, Betemit, Pena - and I’d like to see LaDouche gone so I don’t have to hear any more excuses as to why someone did not care enough to hustle in October. Estrada and Ramirez might also have some trade value. Seems like a perfect opportunity to go after a Todd Helton, who is a great October player waiting to happen, and some relievers. Wishful thinking though, I know.

By Miles

October 11, 2005 01:03 AM | Link to this

this october loss has nothing to do with the psyche of the players or a curse on the Braves. Face facts people, we were a FLAWED team and got beaten by a BETTER team. A team cannot win in the postseason without a BULLPEN. If we put together a much better bullpen for next year and tinker a little with the rotation and lineup we are in VERY GOOD shape for 2006. We have a good young core group of players here and you would be foolish to do an overhaul of the roster as some of you suggest.

By David Duncan

October 11, 2005 01:05 AM | Link to this

I keep saying every year that the braves will win the regular season and wind up losing in the first round of the playoffs. I have never been so accurate in my prediction. Why is that? For just one time, why can’t I be wrong in my prediction. I also say that I will not allow the Braves postseason failures to upset me. And yet I found myself suffering from depression after the 18 inning loss to the Astros. Why do I put myself thru this every year? It is my hope that the Braves will get rid of the Jones boys. They do not play with fire and passion. The Braves could have losing seasons for several years and then, come back to win a World Series.

By BJ

October 11, 2005 01:09 AM | Link to this

I used to tell people that the reason I love the Braves is that I like my team playing baseball in October. Now I tell people I hate the Braves because I hate my team losing in October.

By Ryan

October 11, 2005 01:26 AM | Link to this

Oooh, someone mentioned Todd Helton…

Can you imagine?

But, still. We don’t need bats.

Seriously, 6 runs should have been plenty enough to win.

Our problem is pitching. Starters and relievers.

Anyone here really believe we’ll have Smoltz for a full season next year?

We’re better off getting another frontline starter and then loading up the bullpen with consistent middle relievers.

By seang

October 11, 2005 01:36 AM | Link to this

Everyone likes to bring up Leyritz in 1996.What about Len Dykstra in 1993?The Braves can always find hitters and starting pitchers.They always seem to come up short in the bullpen.

By Dustin

October 11, 2005 01:40 AM | Link to this

When will people start believing me. It is the curse of David Justice. We haven’t had a great post season hitting right fielder, not to mention a clutch hitter and leader, since Justice. Shuerholtz needs to make amends, and we need to win another World Series!

By Drew Craig

October 11, 2005 02:11 AM | Link to this

Only one team ends the season happily… the rest end with a loss. I still remember well the Braves’ 100 loss seasons, and I am thankful they keep me interested in baseball for the entire summer and into fall by playing winning ball. I do hope to see another World Series Title soon (next year would be GREAT), but I don’t look at a playoff year as a letdown even if it ends without a World Championship. Keep in mind, we could be fans of Kansas City, Texas, or Tampa Bay… now those fans have a reason to complain.

By jeff

October 11, 2005 03:43 AM | Link to this

As long as Time-Warner controls ownership and places a ceiling of 80 mil on this team , the team may overachieve during the season but fall apart in the playoffs because it us simply in it over its head. Does anyone really think that the Braves would have stood a chance of beating tthe Cards if we survived against the Astros? In order to truly compete next year, JS needs to sign, Billy Wagner before the Mets do, resign Furcal, since he will undoubtedly improve as a leadoff hitterand he is really irreplaceable, and find another decent starter, since Smoltzie’s arm may not be able to survive another full season. But everyone knows that probably none of the above will happen because T-W refuses to spend the money needed for it to happen. Instead JS will have to look for cheap so-called “bargains to fill key positions (like he did with Kolb, Jordan and the other guy who started in right field and never made it passed June) and pray that these second rate has-beens or one year wonders work out.That this team came in first again is a miracle in itself, even more surprising than the way it fell apart in the last game against the Astros.

By Drew

October 11, 2005 05:13 AM | Link to this

The Braves are great and you people are morons. I guarantee if you ask any other team in baseball they would love to just go to the playoffs than sit at home and watch on TV. Yes it is painful to watch them lose in the postseason. Everyone that is saying that The Joneses need to go are crazy. Andruw carried the team all year and only had the highest average of ANYONE in the postseason. And if you didn’t see it he was the one trying to catch the homerun. Chipper is the heart of the team, the leader. Todd Helton…. are you people retarded he plays at Coors field anyone could have good numbers there. You people say that Time Warner is being cheap, they are spending 80 million dollars on player salaries, there is only so much money that can be spent without them raising ticket prices and all of you fair-weather fans complaining about it. And money doesn’t buy wins; look at the Red Sox and Yankees they are sitting at home. If you people are not going to be with a team through thick and thin then we don’t need you, go jump on someone else’s bandwagon. And if you didn’t know Laroche was dehydrated and about to pass out, sorry he is not as swift footed as Sid Bream was. Bobby Cox does what he thinks is best for the team, which is usually the right decision but you people that have never played the game wouldn’t know that. And how can you say this team didn’t have any passion, have you not watched them at all this year. I will always love the Braves and you should too, one day everyone will realize how great we have had it for 15 amazing years.

By john

October 11, 2005 06:21 AM | Link to this

Thanks for pinning the Braves problems on a”curse”.This will bring comfort to their fans who from looking at these blogs are just about ready for the nuthouse.

By Mark

October 11, 2005 06:22 AM | Link to this

You and everyone else are being silly and infantile to believe in “curses”. There is no more a curse on the Braves than there was on Boston.

The Braves have simply built a team over the years that can win regular season championships, but they have this thing in their heads. It may be psychological now, but it is not a curse.

If you simply use logic, if the Braves had to dip into their bullpen for any of the post season series, you have to confess they were going to lose. Their bullpen was atrocious this year and this should have been expected.

By True Braves Fan

October 11, 2005 06:25 AM | Link to this

By Eric

October 10, 2005 10:17 PM

ERIC: THAT IS THE MOST OUTSTANDING BLOG I HAVE READ ALL YEAR!!!

By john

October 11, 2005 06:27 AM | Link to this

Thanks for pinning the Braves playoff problems on a “curse”. This will bring great comfort to their fans who from looking at these blogs are just about ready for the nuthouse.

By True Braves Fan

October 11, 2005 06:37 AM | Link to this

Carroll: I cannot believe that you are hollering (again) for a ridiculous change. Have you checked Pinella’s record…WP .517; 19 years. Only 4 Divison Championships; 1 League Championship; and 1 World Series Championship.(and he finished 5th the following year.) And you want this base throwing “gentleman” to come in and replace a Hall Of Fame Manager?

By arey

October 11, 2005 07:09 AM | Link to this

cool

By Jesse

October 11, 2005 07:35 AM | Link to this

What I don’t see in this blog is any mention of the Houston Astros. I live in Houston and we are long-suffering —even longer suffering than Braves fans, if any of you can believe that today. At least the Braves have a recent World Series title and have been there more than once. The Astros have never even gotten a sniff — mostly thanks to the Braves.

To suggest a “curse” takes away from the accomplishment the Astros achieved. They had the heart, the will and, most importantly, the bullpen to get the job done. When facing the Braves, as all of you know, that has rarely been the case.

When Bagwell, Biggio and the late 90s Astros were getting bullied around by the Braves, it wasn’t a curse that did us in — it was Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, Avery, et al.

It may all be a moot point anyway with the Cards poised to return and this time win the Series. But, you’ve got to admit, the 2005 Astros have a better shot to knock them off than the 2005 Braves would have.

By Jay

October 11, 2005 07:41 AM | Link to this

If a mechanic rebuilds 14 engines, and can only make one of them work, is he a good mechanic? Bobby Cox has virtually a different team each year for the last 14 seasons, but only has one world series rings…What other manager of any company would have been given so many chances to reach a goal, and yet not achieve it? Yes the players play, but it’s Bobby Cox that calls the shots. If this was deer hunting, Bobby just wasted 14 bullets with 14 different guns.

By Jay

October 11, 2005 07:45 AM | Link to this

Correction about my last comment…That’s wasting 13 bullets from 13 different guns

By Jim

October 11, 2005 07:52 AM | Link to this

If anyone happened to notice last night, the two remaining managers playing happened to be former catcheres. Needless to say Torre’s record is pretty strong with all those rings; the fact that the Angels bumped them this year cannot diminish that.

Watching Scioscia in the dugout brought back memories of him behind the plate with the Dodgers… he was some kind of force!

If Erstad had hit Scioscia like he did Estrada, he’d have broken his own neck instead of sending Estrada to never, never land… Scioscia was a force…

He still is a force, and I don’t think it is an accident that the Angels continue to play with heart in the playoffs…

Last night when Colon couldn’t go on… the pen came through big time and shut the Yankees down…

Watching Scioscia and Torre makes me wonder what a playoff manager would do differently here in Atlanta…. like Win in October or at least play with heart, Chipper Jones??

The biggest farce I heard so far this year in the TV coverage was the absurdity that Chipper is the Derek Jeter of the Braves…………ha… Chipper is an over paid red neck content with Hooter’s girls and chewing tobacco. He has no heart and doesn’t hustle…. and that has spread to the rest of the team like a cancer…

By Reggie

October 11, 2005 08:01 AM | Link to this

Amen Dustin; It is indeed the curse of David Justice……He called the fans out about their nonchalant attitude during that 95 World Series and then went out and provided the game-winning HR to deliver the pennant. And what did management do for him??? Trade him along with Marquis Grissom for Alan Embree and Kenny Lofton in 1997.

By Carroll

October 11, 2005 08:07 AM | Link to this

Did anybody notice the Yankees postgame interview last night? Note the difference between a winner like Derek Jeter and losers like Chipper Jones. Jeter said that just getting in the playoffs was unacceptable and this season would not be deemed a success. You know…all the things the Braves used to say before 1996 when winning actually matered to them.

Chipper on the other hand is always the first to proclaim that a complete failure is actually a success. He’s also the first to run and hide when the pressure’s on. However, it seems that the Yankees have a Chumper of their own in A-Fraud….always fails in the clutch, always making excuses and trying to place a positive spin on utter failure. It looks like that despite the winner personality of Jeter, he has been overwhelmed by too many “Braves-type” players and attitudes.

Also, Joe Torre will likely be fired despite his unprecedented run of success. WHy? Because losing in the playoffs doesn’t cut it. Period! No matter what lame excuses you make, it’s just not good enough to get there and fail.

By Carroll

October 11, 2005 08:15 AM | Link to this

TBF: HELL YES I want Sweet Lou and his .517 winning percentage. That man has taken over terrible teams and made them winners (Mariners, Reds)! Many of his losses came in Tampa…the biggest joke of a franchise in the history of man. But that being said, he led them to I believe the 2nd or 3rd best record in baseball in the 2nd half. You cannot argue with that!

Look, maybe he wouldn’t win as many divisional championshits or whathaveyou, but I guarantee you this.,..that man would have this team playing with passion and enthusiasm like you’ve never seen. And he would make the most out of the golden opportunities of getting into the playoffs.

And as far as his on-field antics, I think they’re hilarious and might go a long way toward improving the atendance in Atlanta and bringing the fans to life! Besides, you can’t get much worse than BC when it comes to embarrassing on-field antics, right? But I don’t fault BC or Sweet Lou for that stuff…I love it…somebody needs to bring those idiot umps back down to earth once in a while.

By whatxidiots

October 11, 2005 08:16 AM | Link to this

B0Y, i can’t wait to see the fan turnout at the stadium for next season … can you say EMPTY ?

By Carroll

October 11, 2005 08:29 AM | Link to this

whatxidiots: I definitely think it will be empty because all the fans will be busy eating dirt…..beats the hell out of eating the s** that they feed us every stinkin year!

By Martin Morris

October 11, 2005 08:30 AM | Link to this

I nodded off. Has LaRoche made it around third base yet. Last I saw he was loping (loafing?) on his way past second.

By CJC

October 11, 2005 08:36 AM | Link to this

Speaking of “A-Fraud,” how did you like it when he said he was “proud of all the guys.” It just seemed odd he would say that with his performance. The NY Post compared him to a casino cooler. I think that’s what Chipper has become. His couldn’t care less approach has definitely rubbed off on his teammates. The image of him laughing in the dugout as the Yankees were wiping out the Braves in ‘99 is the image I always associate with Chumper. And the Hooters girls. And those mysterious cold sore things. And that fine first wife he had.

By whatxchumps

October 11, 2005 08:36 AM | Link to this

THIS WEAK A* TEAM SHOULD BE PULLED FROM TBS * N0TE T0 THE FANS * IF Y0U SUPP0RT THIS TEAM BY ATTENDING THEIR GAMES - Y0U ARE JUST AS PATHETIC !

By Maya

October 11, 2005 08:39 AM | Link to this

Why I didn’t mind the Braves losing Sunday: If they had won, they would have just come home and got beaten on their own turf, yet again. And, it’s just too disgusting watching other teams celebrate championships on the Braves home field. It’s like the Braves have no pride at all. I saw all the mistakes and miscues of Sunday’s game and knew, down the line it would cost them. I guess it just doesn’t pay to be a Braves fan.

By PSack

October 11, 2005 08:43 AM | Link to this

Keep 3 players

Chipper Andrew Smoltz

The get rid of the rest

Trade..trade…trade

By H-Charles

October 11, 2005 08:43 AM | Link to this

Playoffs always come down to a few pivotal plays in each game. The Braves are always on the wrong end of these plays in October. Why? As a wise man once said “you create your own good fortune.” In baseball, this means playing with frenetic intensity. It means 100% effort, all the time. IF you give that, the breaks tend to go your way. This is why the Astros beat us. They play with electricity. Their fans feed this intensity with every pitch, the stadium roaring (unlike Turner field, which gets loud only a few times a game).
In game 4 you just have to look at one play to sum up why the Braves always fall short. Astros pop-up down the third base line in foul ground. Chipper jogs over, but slows down, worried he will hit the fence. Because he slows, the ball drops, Astros get a free out. That leads to the grandslam, instead of the Braves getting out of the inning. Contrast Chipper’s approach with baseball’s consumate postseason winner, Derek Jeter, who dove head first into the stands to catch a pop up in the postseason.
That is the effort you have to give in October. Here is our team leader, and he is more concerned about his body bumping the wall than catching the ball. Chipper is a great player, but that effort speaks volumes about this Braves team and its failings.
It’s not just Chipper, either. Andruw dogs it to first, almost getting called out on an errant throw to first. LaRoche dogs it around the bases, getting thrown out at the plate. You want answers? It starts with the heart. Each year the Braves coast in to October, never having needed to pay with that intensity our competitors build up late in the year. When we havee to turn it on, we simply don’t know how, and poor Bobby Cox just doesn’t have it in his nature to push those types of buttons. As long as the Braves are going to be working with limited payroll, they simply will not have the talent to just railroad teams in October that are playing harder than they are.
So, the Braves are left to play out the same story, year after year. It will happen again next season.

By MT

October 11, 2005 08:45 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe what I’m reading. Let’s think sanely about this for a minute. Do you REALLY, HONESTLY believe that if someone would’ve told you in April that by the end of the year, Jordan and Mondesi were big-time busts, two rookies had to take their place, that Hampton was out the majority of the year, that Thomson was out the majority of the year, that Hudson was out almost half the year, that Chipper was out a fourth of the year, that Estrada was half the player he was in ‘04, that Kolb was a complete bust, and we had yet to find a true closer until September, and that Davies, Colon, and Sosa all were starters for us, and that we’d have 8 rookies playing prominent roles, but yet we still won the division, you wouldn’t be the least bit happy??? And then if that same person told you that with that patchwork lineup, we were going against the Astros with Clemens, Pettitte, Oswalt and Lidge (when all four were firing on all cylinders), but yet we still almost made it to a fifth game, you wouldn’t be the least bit surprised? You think that has NOTHING to do with Bobby Cox? But yet, let’s get rid of him for Sweet Lou…who has ZERO patience for players, who players don’t like playing for, who won one world championship fifteen years ago, who lost in the FIRST ROUND with a 120-something win Seattle team a few years back…GREAT suggestion. You guys are freaking experts

By Carroll

October 11, 2005 08:48 AM | Link to this

H-Charles: and Jeter did that in a “meaningless” middle-of-the-season game…..Chumper couldn’t come close to his effort in an FREAKING ELIMINATION GAME….when you could feel it starting to slip away! I suppose Chumper was worried that he might hurt himself and wouldn’t be able to sire anymore babies or go huntin’. Git-r-dun Chipper…isn’t that what you guys say?

By Dave

October 11, 2005 08:49 AM | Link to this

Everyone take a breath and realize that the Braves just need a few relief pitchers to advance further. The bullpen was horrible all year, and deep down everyone should know that this team could not win the World Series or even get by St Louis for that matter. No need to tinker with anything except the bullpen. Enjoy what the Braves did this year. Would you have wanted all the rookies to fail? This is a continued run of success and should be looked at properly. Relief pitching is a major problem for most teams, and even if the Braves address this need, anything can happen again (Kolb), and that is where the problem lies. A decent bullpen would have meant a 100 win season and a chance at a World Series this past year. Stop the trash talk of dumping the Jones boys. You can not be real Atlanta fans to even suggest this.

By Carroll

October 11, 2005 08:55 AM | Link to this

Every year it’s “we just need this” or “we just need that” … NO! we need major change! Look folks, everyone likes to call the playoffs a crapshoot. But in craps, if you got the same result 14/15 times, IT WOULDN’T BE CALLED CRAPS! It’s become tradition in the ATl.

By Lee

October 11, 2005 09:10 AM | Link to this

Eric’s blog on October 10, 10:17 PM is the most insightful I’ve ever read in this column. We should all do some self examination and realize that our self worth should not be tied to the failures or successes of others.

By Gritz Blitz

October 11, 2005 09:10 AM | Link to this

Losing in the postseason is not a tradition but has become a habit for the Braves. The direction things are going could have them faultering to miss the division and wildcard at the end of September. They are much closer to that level of play than what it takes to advance in the playoffs.

By TeamWTF

October 11, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this

If we remember our Braves history, THE best seasons that I can remember were those in which THE FANS were at a frenetic fever pitch in “The Chop Shop”. Yes, laugh as you may, it is the fans that promote a higher level of play…Look at the winning cities and compare fan support and overall game excitement with that of Atlanta. Do you remember when almost each car you saw had a tomahawk in the window, when billboards all over the city had a tomahawk on it…and do you remember the feeling of sitting in the stadium with every other screaming, stomping, and chanting fan while the hopes and dreams of a city hung upon names that only Atlantans knew, Lemke, Bream, Blauser, Gant, Nixon, Avery, Stanton, Pendleton, and Hunter. I remember, and I remember that these guys had guts and stuck it out and played the game as it should be…full on in front of screaming fans that loved them all.

By Steve

October 11, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this

The Yankees spent $120M more than the Braves for 1 more playoff win.

By whatxidiots

October 11, 2005 09:20 AM | Link to this

WHAT COMPLETE L0SERS - ALL I WANTED WAS A GAME 5 BACK IN ATL. TBS SHOULD PULL THE PLUG ON THESE WEAKLINGS. AND, I AM PROUND TO SAY THE LAST BRAVES GAME I ATTENDED WAS WHEN THE GIANTS BEAT THEM IN GAME 5. I REALIZED BACK THEN THAT THEY”LL JUST KEEP SHEETING THEIR PANTS. D0 N0T G0 T0 THE STADIUM NEXT SEAS0N THERE’S A BIG “L” H0VERING 0VER THE STADIUM AND IT STANDS F0R L 0 S E R S AND THE ENTIRE NATION KN0WS IT. I ASK Y0U THIS - WH0 IN THEIR RIGHT MIND, W0ULD WANT T0 BE A PART 0F THAT !? Y0U’LL FIGURE 0UT

By Gene

October 11, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

Those of us who were lucky enough to be around in ‘91 and ‘92 remember teams that were short on talent but long on guts and energy. Compare the play and dugout activity of recent teams to those of the early 90’s. Most of the present Braves look and play like they have other things they want to be doing. When Chipper says, “I live for this,” I think he means money.

By Jman

October 11, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

Give me a break guys! All of you who are saying that you will not attend games and that the Braves are failures; GO ON! We dont need ya! Odds are you guys became fans only when the Braves started doing well. I’ve been watching the Braves since the 80’s, when they were awful! Go ahead and get off the bandwagon now. And please dont get back on it next year when the Braves win their 15th Division title in a row!

By JaJa

October 11, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

We have a terrific nucleus of 15 young hungry rooks who had a taste of playoff pressure. If there is a silver lining, we have a lot to look forward to in the coming years as long as Mr. Scheurholz does not break this team up and spend money on veterans who command high dollars and are only around one or two years (ie Sheffield). Please when you shop for players, pleasssse consider what they have in the post season along with their regular season stats.

By Marc

October 11, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe all the stuff I read about how the Braves have no passion and don’t try in the playoffs. And then people selectively pick out certain plays to prove that Chipper or whomever doesn’t care. I think it’s just the opposite. Everyone wants to think that when they don’t get the results, there has to be something wrong with the effort. I think it’s just the opposite—the veterans, especially, are trying too hard an dpressing, they can’t relax. Look at the teams that have been succeeding in the playoffs in recent years—in general, they have nothing to lose. (I guess you could argue about the Red Sox last year.) The more pressure you put on yourself, the worse you perform. Look at the Yankees with a payroll more than twice as high as anyone else in the playoffs. You could see the tension on A-Rod’s face. That’s not choking—that’s the weight of expectations in a game in which the probability of either team winning a particular game is 50-50. Everyone talks about the “old Braves” of Lemke, Olson, etc. Well, guess what—they only won one World Series too. It wasn’t the team that was more passionate, it was that fans didn’t expect as much and the players had less pressure on them. The Braves didn’t lose because Chipper didn’t dive into the stands or something or because Bobby Cox didn’t make the right move or something like that. Let’s face it, baseball is not like football—in a short series, luck plays a big role.

Having said that, there are two things that have always bothered me by the way JS constructs a team. First, the lack of consistent offense has always been a problem. The Braves rely on big innings and struggle to push runs across. If they had pushed a couple of more runs across on Sunday when they had the chance, it would have been a different game. The Braves management seems oblivous to the importance of plate discipline and having tough at bats. Second, the obvious lack of a dominant bullpen year after year. it’s obvious that the Braves are constrained by Time Warner’s payroll. Their payroll structure still reflects a $100 million team; so much of the payroll is tied up in a few players, they can’t really make the moves necessary to put the team over the top. Let’s face it, for much of the season, the Braves were a .500 team, playing with two rookies in the outfield and rookiers in the bullpen. It’s not JS’s or BC’s fault; unless TW loosens the payroll (unlikely unless attendence increases drastically) or they can restructure by getting rid of some big contracts, I see the team being in the same position each year of having to hope they get hot. This is a lot different than in the 90s, when the Braves were generally the best team in the league even when they lost in the NLCS. They have not been the best team in recent years.

Eric, I totally agree with you. I can’t understand myself why I invest so much emotion in a team (and it’s only the Braves, no other team). I think you might be right about the genetic component. I wish I could understand it too.

At least the Yankees losing made me feel better. I’m hoping for a White Sox-Cardinals World Series.

By Marc

October 11, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

This is all so pathetic. It is a GAME for goodness sake! All you whiners and crybabies and criticizers, please do us a favor and go ahead and slit your wrists and be done with it. You are taking up space in this world that could be used for something or someone positive.

Why in the world do the fortunes of a baseball team make you want to hurl insults and vitriol at the ones that you called heroes just 24 hours prior to the final out???

You people are just sad. PLEASE go buy a gun or razor and do the right thing.

By Bob McKendrick

October 11, 2005 09:40 AM | Link to this

Hey Bradley, the Braves will start anew in the spring but your columns will always suck. Also all you sidewalk managers b*** about the Braves need to apply for Bobby Cox’s job since you know everything. Please take the job and use your infinite knowledge to make the Braves a post-season winner.

By Jman

October 11, 2005 09:43 AM | Link to this

Hey whatxidiots, Try being a Cub fan for a while. You think you follow a loser now. Deal with it! You arent a Braves and never were.

By Marc

October 11, 2005 09:44 AM | Link to this

That last message is not me. It’s either a different Marc or someone trying to do something. If this is so unimportant, how come he is wasting his time reading the comments? Can’t he find something more productive with his life?

By U R ALL PATHETIC

October 11, 2005 09:45 AM | Link to this

YEAH U - THE PLAYERS & THE FEW HUNDRED FANS. THE NATION IS LAUGHING AT U

By whatxidiots

October 11, 2005 09:47 AM | Link to this

no sheet i’m not a braves fan - i don’t follow train wrecks.

By ernie logman

October 11, 2005 09:47 AM | Link to this

has anyone ever considered that the only thing Bobby Cox knows in the post season is how to lose.

That 1995 was a fluke and that if Hargrove wasn’t more inept then Cox, that the Indians would have won easily

it’s Bobby Cox & Schuerholz Cox underachieved with toronto, it wasn’t until toronto got rid of Cox and his protege Williams that they won.

Schuerholz teams underachieved for years in KC 76 lost ALCS to Yankees 77 lost ALCS to Yankees 78 lost ALCS to Yankees 80 lost WS to Phillies 81 lost ALDS to A’s 84 lost ALCS to Tigers 85 Finally won WS against Cards

This loser combination would have been long gone with a hnads on owner who cared

By Nina

October 11, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

A Curse? Please.

By Nelson

October 11, 2005 10:04 AM | Link to this

Ernie, Toronto didn’t get rid of Bobby Cox. He left the Blue Jays on his own to become GM of the Braves after the 1985 season, and then became manager during the 1990 season.

By Nelson

October 11, 2005 10:05 AM | Link to this

Ernie, Toronto didn’t want to get rid of Bobby Cox. He left the Blue Jays on his own to become GM of the Braves after the 1985 season, and then became manager during the 1990 season.

By Nina

October 11, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

If making it to the post season for the last 14 years is a curse…bring it on! And you see? It’s not so easy to just make it here and win, win, win. I admit they really dropped the ball in game 4, but look at the Yank-mees. All the money they spend hasn’t taken them any farther… How many different teams have won the World Series in the past 5 years? Um…FIVE! That should tell you something.

By lol

October 11, 2005 10:14 AM | Link to this

C0NCERTS ARE THE 0NLY F0RM 0F ENTERTAINMENT THIS CITY HAS G0ING F0R IT

By Nina

October 11, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

If making it to the post season for the last 14 years is a curse…bring it on! And you see? It’s not so easy to just make it here and win, win, win. I admit they really dropped the ball in game 4, but look at the Yank-mees. All the money they spend hasn’t taken them any farther… How many different teams have won the World Series in the past 5 years? Um…FIVE! That should tell you something. And disappointing as Sunday’s loss was, there are 22 teams which didn’t make the playoffs who would have loved to be in Atlanta’s place.

By Dave

October 11, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

Everyone b***, moans and groans about the Braves underachieving in the playoffs without acknowledging the fact that they did great to even MAKE the playoffs the past two years.

In 2004, we had the reclamation projects (JD Drew and Jaret Wright), our replacement for Javy (Estrada), a first-base combination of a rookie (LaRoche) and Methusalah (Franco, and the unknowns (Nick Green and Charles Thomas) ALL come through to allow the Braves to make the playoffs, only to lose to superior Astros pitching and the unbelievable hitting of Carlos Beltran.

In 2005, let’s count the problems and solutions:

• Our corner outfielders (Jordan and Mondesi) are busts, yet the rookies (Johnson, Kelly and Langerhans) come through.

• Our starting pitching loses two of the veterans (Hampton and Thompson) who, at the time of their injuries, were on pace to win between 15 - 20 games each, and a rookie (Davies) and a retreat (Sosa) step in to win 16 games between them.

• Chipper goes down with a freak injury, and Betemit steps in to play a great third base and hit .300.

• Estrada gets bulldozed and is never the same for the remainder of the season, and ANOTHER rookie (McCann) steps in and plays like an All-Star.

• Bobby Cox manages through adversity that would induce heart failure in most every other manager and wins DESPITE having one of the worst bullpens in Braves history.

Braves fans, get a GRIP on reality and recognize that JS, BC and LM have performed miracles on limited budgets. If they were transplanted to EITHER team in New York or to Boston or to even Baltimore or Philadelphia where they could spend the money needed to fix their team’s shortfalls, they would have a string of league pennants and World Series rings to match that of the Yankees of 1996 - 2000.

Sure, let go ahead and fire BC and JS. The following teams would bid MILLIONs sign them both as a team:

• Kansas City
• Toronto
• Los Angeles Dodgers
• Philadelphia
• Baltimore
• Cincinnati
• Washington
• San Francisco
• Seattle
• Chicago Cubs
• New York Mets
• and, yes, the New York Yankees!!

Those who want to dump JS and BC, be CAREFUL what you wish for; you may GET IT! And the Braves would return to the late 1980s era of a mostly empty stadium and 100-loss seasons.

By TrueBlueBravesFan

October 11, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this

You people are UNBELIEVABLE Think about MT’s post for a minute. The reality is this. This team probably should have never even gotten here. The only fault I place on this year is squarely at the feet of TimeWarner. The only thing that could have gotten this team to the promise land was a better bullpen and clutch hitter on the bench.

Think about it. Think of all the failed experiments. The fact that we tried to win in the postseason with a #3 starter out for the season(Hampton). A #4 starter (Thompson) injured and then performing so poorly that Sosa was required to move from the already bad bullpen to the rotation. A fifth starter that threw more gopher balls than any other starter in the league. A bullpen of (get ready to tremble) Reitsma (not bad but not great), Foster (pardon while try to hold down my lunch), Brower (How many times did he get waived this year), Devine (2 grand slams in first 2 innings, needs a little more work), and Mcbride (who I thought should have been in there instead of devine in the 18th). A primary catcher who was a physical wreck. A third baseman with bad wheels. A #1 starter with a bum shoulder. A lousy fanbase that couldn’t even sellout game 1 when a crowd might have helped. And a confidence shattering last loss of the season.

It’s incredible that the Astros didn’t fall over laughing when they looked over in the other clubhouse and looked at who they were supposed to beat.

A playoff team cannot win with that makeup. Its almost incredible (even though I hate to admit it) That they almost brought it to a game 5. I knew it was over once Farnsworth tanked. He was the only semi reliable guy down there. In fact I have to give the rest of the pen credit for at least gutting it out for 9 innings.

I’m dissappointed but in reflection I’m starting to make my glass half full again. I think by spring I even might have hope for these Braves again. Could you imagine what this team could do if they could find a 3rd starter like Oswalt and a middle reliever like Qualls. It all depends on what Time Warner is willing to do.

I don’t think Farnsworth is the closer answer but hey maybe he will learn from this experience (The Cubs thought he was incapable of learning).

As for Furcal. I don’t want to see him back until he learns that he is not a power hitter. He should stop swinging from his heels and learn to put pitches in play. I would love to see the Braves bring in Brett Butler as a special instructor for him and make him work all winter.

For that matter maybe Brett could teach Furcal and Giles at the same time. Because if I see Giles take another monstrous rip with a man on first I will throw something at him. I’ve never seen such a little guy take such out- of-control swings. That sometimes works in the regular season with pitchers that are tired or a little off of their game. But in the playoffs where every pitcher is focussing on eveyr pitch it just won’t cut it. He could learn to bunt while he’s at it.

This whole team needs to focus on little ball more in spring training and learn how to put balls in play when their up against a tough power pitcher. That has been there consistent problem all year. (Think pedro, or Josh Beckett, or Mark Prior).

Well I killed enough bytes with this blog entry.

By Charlie

October 11, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this

Eric, You should read Sports Illusion, Sports Reality by Leonard Koppett, who explains that sports only matter to fans to the extent we allow it to matter.

Also, a world-class track athlete once said his goal was to make it to the big events injury free, but then it’s a roll the dice affair because so many things happen you can’t control.

The New Mexico Lobos ran off their college basketball coach because they were tired of losing in the second round of the NCAAs — so they went years before ever returning.

The Braves have a good thing going — enjoy it.

By John Rocker

October 11, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this

*If I was on the mound in Game 4, I would of at least brought it back to a Game 5 in ATL. I am sorry they let you down … *

By Dan

October 11, 2005 10:46 AM | Link to this

I’d rather be in this position and feeling a little red, white and blue about a team that’s played well together for the last six months than looking at articles written from you guys about an ice hockey team that took the last two years off!! Deep down, I think most Braves fans knew they didn’t have the bullpen to get to the next level but the team gave us all something to hope for. Remember Kyle Davies in his debut against the Red Sox, or Jeff Francoer and his consecutive put-outs from right field. How about “the Franks” in the outfield. There is a bright future in this organization from what has been an extraordinary past. You can’t say that about the Falcons (at least not yet) or the Hawks, or the Trashers that went on strike for the last year and a half. Congrats to John S. and Bobby C. on another great year of memories. Looking forwrd to April 06.

By True Braves Fan

October 11, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this

Carroll, Did you say Pinella took teams and made winner out of them? You better check the records…YANKEES 2-4-5; REDS 1 (Only time advancing past the first round.)5-2; SEATTLE 4-3-1-2-1-3-3-2-1-3 and TAMPA BAY 5-4-5. That’s getting into the playoffs 4 times in 19 years. And if you want a buffon on the field, you can hire a clown cheaper…

By Wendy

October 11, 2005 11:07 AM | Link to this

I disagree with one thing - the rookies didn’t look like rookies, not even in October. McCann got the homer in Game 2, Langerhans was one of the only guys on base in the 2nd half of Game 4. The vets came through in Game 1 and 4, but none of the rooks really looked overmatched - Francoeur struck out a lot, but that’s just him, that’s not being particularly overmatched.

I don’t know what the baseball gods had in mind making us watch the normally reliable Farnsworth implode so horribly and middle relief pitch 8.1 scoreless innings, but never in a million years did I think that wasn’t going to Game 5.

236-3: that’s the record of teams in the postseason taking a 5+ run lead into the 8th inning. Sigh.

But I loved this year, I loved the Baby Braves, and while the loss was excruciating, I can’t wait to see what’s in store for next year. We need to find a freikin closer. And Chipper’s talking about reworking his contract again, so who knows, maybe Fookie stays after all…

By Jim Clancy

October 11, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this

Hey guys, I’m available to come in out of the pen - Jim Clancy

me too - Marvin Freeman

me too - Charlie Leibrandt

me too - Jeff Reardon

me too - Mike Stanton

me too - Gregg Olson

me too - Brad Clontz

me too - Mark Wohlers

me too - Joe Borowski

me too - Kerry Lightenberg

me too - Rudy Seanez

me too - Alan Embree

me too - John Rocker

me too - Kevin McGlinchy

me too - Tim Spooneybarger

me too - Kevin Gryboski

me too - Ray King

me too - “insert name here”

It’s always been about the bull pen folks!!!!!!!

I’m sure we could dig up Gene Garber, Al Hrabosky, Donnie Moore, Bruce Sutter and a few more of our p** poor relievers that we’ve had throughout the years to come coach up the bullpen a little too !

A little relief pitching over the past 14 years and Cox is a “genius”, Schuerholz is a “wizard”, the Braves win 3 or 4 WS and we’re all happy and not talking about this crapola.

I hear that Joe Torre will be available soon, let’s swap Cox for Joe !

Go Bravos!

Jim Clancy ~ out

By Ryan

October 11, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

I will vomit if the Braves ever consider hiring Lou Piniella.

Complaining about this season is like hooking up with Brooke Burke and complaining because she wouldn’t swallow.

By Ron Yorke

October 11, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this

We have to remember that we have had John Schuerholz as GM throughout our run of 14 division championships. Like any long-tenured person, he has a well documented philosophy and this is what we must expect for 2006.

Big John will spend every available dollar on the big name players and try the bargain basement bin for the remainder of the roster. We have seen it year after year. Remember when we had an excellent bullpen a few years ago, but needed to keep an aging Greg Maddux for one year? John chose to keep Greg for one year at the cost of a bullpen that has never recovered.

The fact is this philosopy of a few star players leads to regular season sucess (over 162 games) and post season failure over a short series.

I have always enjoyed Don Sutton’s commentary because it explains why a pitcher should not throw strikes or give a dangerous hitter anything to hit. We build our teams around those to be avoided at the cost of balance. A pitcher can walk or avoid a few players but not an entire lineup.

We are blessed that the kids will grow into ML players, but we will eventually have to pay to keep them, which probably means we can only keep one, instead of keeping seven and losing one.

That is Big John’s philosophy. And our curse. Leo works wonders with castoffs or rookies and Bobby Cox wins no matter who is here, but they need talent over the entire roster. The Jones Boys can’t do it alone.

By doug

October 11, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this

The reason the Braves are not in the NLCS is becasuse of LAZY LAZY base running If I was in charge, he’d be gone. There was no sense of urgency, no sense that this was an elimination game, no sense of history. So what he hit a grand slam, there is no excuse for stupid laziness. That one run he didn’t score sent them packing again.

By ray

October 11, 2005 11:42 AM | Link to this

I definitely think we are cursed. And I think it started with the slider to the rat in the ‘96 series.

We just need a catchy name for the curse.

Any ideas?

By Robert S.

October 11, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

Yes,yes,yes!!! Bring in Sweet Lou. Let’s stop the predictability of this franchise. Let’s change some attitudes (read: Chipper) around here. Let’s bring some hellfire and brimstone to this walking dialtone of a baseball team. If not him, then bring in Joe Torre if he gets canned in NY. Ever since he started Danny Bautista and Tony Graffanino in that must win Game 6 of the ‘98 NLCS against Sterling Hitchcock and the Padres and benched Klesko and Keith Lockhart I have felt the Braves should have fired BC. The previous blogs were right. The one constant in all this futility is Bobby Cox. And remember he was at the helm when the Blue Jays gagged their way through the postseason, too (in the ‘80’s).The only reason the Braves won in ‘95 was that their pitching was dominant enough to cover their weaknesses. That and the fact that the Indians had a clearly inferior team with an over the hill pitching staff that the Braves could barely score on. Sure they had Belle and Thome and Lofton offensively but that was about it. Cox had nothing to do with it. Players’ managers only succeed when there is a balance of discipline and letting the players play. Watching LaRoche lollygag it around the bases and not look for Fredi Gonzalez’ sign was yet another example of how fundamentally unsound this team tends to be. Watching these clowns swing (uncontrollably at times)at first pitches, bad pitches, ground to third with a runner on second, not wait for their pitch, is all a result of an undisciplined approach to the game. Maybe a manager who will bench his guys for being so undisciplined would light a fire under this bunch. Not one who constantly makes excuses for them like BC does. Get rid of him. Now.

By Andy

October 11, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this

The Braves just really gave me another heart-breaking season. They are dynasty for the regular season, no doubt about how good Bobby Cox, the all time great manager he’s. But every October been short. Maybe it’s own version of the curse here.

By Rich

October 11, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this

Hi Mark,

Good God - you make it sound like the Braves haven’t won anything in 50+ years. Besides, who was the person who cursed them? Was it Ted when he sold the team? Perhaps it was Jane Fonda - she so offended by the Tomahawk Chop, she busted out voodoo dolls, and forgot to take the pins out after the divorce. C’mon man, you are snipe hunting here. Yes, they have not won the big one in ten years. Let’s be realistic here, those teams have always had tragic flaws such as bad relief pitching, no hitting, etc. Bobby, and Leo do a good job hiding it throughout the season, but when the playoffs come, the other team exploits it. That’s what champions do. It annoys me to hear this town so down on the Braves; you have no idea what you have here. If you cannot stand 14 division titles, feel free to jump on the Kansas City bandwagon, I hear that they have plenty of room.

By braves fan

October 11, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this

Carroll please leave these blogs immediately!You are an absolute disgrace.The adage about “keeping your mouth shut and being perceived as a fool or opening your mouth and removing all doubt”!This saying resonates with reasonable people and this adage has never fit anyone more perfectly than it fits you.Carroll you give new meaning to the term “the villiage idiot” That moniker is hard to come by on these blogs and 75% of the bloggers try their best to wear that shameful distinction proudly,but you make that impossible.You are hands-down the belt holder in this category.WELL DONE!

By brent

October 11, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this

Good night sweet-Cox.

By TruthHurts

October 11, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

As much as we don’t want to admit this painful truth: it was remarkable that this team even won the Eastern Division.

The Atlanta organization has proved that depth in the player development system should be the heartbeat of a club. This season, when injuries hobbled the Braves and threatened to end their run of division titles, rookies like catcher Brian McCann and outfielders Ryan Langerhans, Jeff Francoeur and Kelly Johnson, among others, stepped in to fill the holes. Their play helped Atlanta win their yet another N.L. East title.

At one point in the regular season, the roster included 12 rookies; eight were on the playoff roster.

Mr. Cox repeatedly takes what he has and produces a good, competitive team. Particularly with Time-Warner limiting the total payroll, it is almost miraculous that this team is as successful as it is.

The painful truth: not every team that is fielded by the Atlanta Braves is a World Series-level team. Sometimes, we need to be thankful for what we have and the enjoyment we got from watching them this year…

By Jill

October 11, 2005 12:01 PM | Link to this

I’ve been calling it the curse of the David Justice trade after he hit the HR in Game 6 of the 1995 WS.

By Sloan Howard

October 11, 2005 12:17 PM | Link to this

Jill, I think it should be called the curse of Halle Berry. When we traded Justice to Cleveland, she cursed the Braves because David must have cheated on her in Cleveland.

By Brandon

October 11, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

Someone said we needa great right fielder like justice, ummm Francouer will be better , He has better tools etc that i have seen first hand. Maybe if the braves talked him into pitching.

The bullpen is horrible with a capital S. Reitsma??? I could hit reitsma left handed , cox and mazzone and sheurholtz take the loss get off your soapbox

By Braves Fan

October 11, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

After Farnsworth gave up the grandslam in game 4, I kept saying, “they are just prolonging the inevitable.” The Braves are not in the same league as these other teams. If they had made it past the first round, they would have lost in the second round. You cannot win a championship with two pitchers (although the Diamondbacks did a few years ago).

The Braves are in a rebuilding mode, and they have a good foundation to build on. One or two more bats, one marquee starter, and two effective relievers, and you have the makings of a championship team.

The Braves are world champions. They havent done it every year, but they did it once. That’s more than a lot of teams can say. I remember when I was a kid, going to Atlanta Fulton County stadium, and laughing at the Braves they were so bad. For the last 14 years, they’ve been part of the post season- something that 22 teams miss out on.

When this season began I would have not believed they would win 60 games. In fact, I thought winning 80 games would be a miracle. They ended up winning 90 games- only 6 other teams had a better record, and only 5 of those teams made the playoffs.

The New York Yankees have the “best team money can buy” and they are eliminated yet again, in the first round.

It is heartbraking to see a team that you know is capable of so much more, falter in the postseason. There’s always next year.

By Braves fan

October 11, 2005 12:25 PM | Link to this

I’m still too tired from Sunday to comment.

By Jim

October 11, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this

The infamous “Leyritz Curse” may have NEVER happened had Mr. Cox not done one of his many infamous questionable moves and should have left Mike Bielecki in to pitch the 8th inning. If anyone remembers, The Yanks cut the lead to 6-3 in the seventh and had ruuners on base, yet Bielecki was summoned from the bullpen and retired three straight batters. Cox should have left Bielecki in to pitch the 8th, THEN bring Wohlers to pitch the 9th.

By Rod d' Bree

October 11, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this

So, like when did the Braves leave Milwaukee?

By Bob San Francisco

October 11, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this

The Braves are really the New York Braves, because the Braves owner, Time-Warner, is located New York City. This is a gigantic conflict of interest because New York City has two major league teams playing there. Why should the executives and accountants at Time-Warner help the Braves improve the team enough to get them to the World Series? Those people are Mets and Yankee fans! MLB Commissioner Selig should force Time-Warner to sell the Braves to Georgia-based ownership by January 2006. By the way, I am the only Braves fan in San Francisco, and carry a dagger and M-16 to protect myself.

By Stephen

October 11, 2005 12:35 PM | Link to this

I think the problem is we haven’t had enough toughness and grit across the entire team over these years. You always see it in Smoltz-his game two performance was one I’ll never forget. Pendleton had it when he was a gamer and Glavine always hung tough for us( his 1995 World Series final game performance was a classic). But we just haven’t had enough of these kind of players over the years. Too many who can’t get it done when the game is on the line.

By Mitch

October 11, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this

I’ve had friends that are Brewers fans and Cubs fans try to console me by reminding me that their teams don’t even make the playoffs, much less lose in the first round. We should be happy, they say. I remind them of this, though: In baseball ‘tis not better to have hoped and lost than never to have hoped at all.

By Lance

October 11, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this

I am 34 years old and have been following the Braves since the 70’s. I distinctly remember the ‘82 sweep by the Cards and the miserable teams of the mid and late ‘80’s and I also remember thinking in ‘91 how cool it was to be watching meaningful baseball in August and September. That was all I dared hope for. Yes, I get frustrated every year too, especially the last 5 where the playoff record is 7 - 15 with 5 first round exits. But I will be right back next year hoping for meaningful baseball in August and September. And then, if all goes right, hoping to get out of the first round. See, that’s what real fans do. Looking back over the past 15 seasons, sure I fell a little disappointment. But, if you would have told me in 1991 that for the next 14 (1994 strike) of 15 years, the Braves would be playing meaningful baseball in the late summer I would have been ecstatic. So, I say thanks Braves for 15 years of great baseball. And responding to Mike Dougher , who ever said the best team always wins - that’s why the last three world champs have all been wild card teams, right?

By Carroll

October 11, 2005 01:14 PM | Link to this

Robert S: and don’t forget in that 1998 elimination game 6 against the Pads, he also benched Mike Tucker in favor of Grelad “K” Williams after Tucker was the only reason we even got the dang series back to the Atl for a game 6 in the first place! The man is a bonafied postseason moron.

By Tami

October 11, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

In reading the blogs of the last 2 days in our EARLY OFF-season malaise, I’m wondering if this idea I have might not be the answer: I wonder if the “streak” were broken, would the Braves be truly HUNGRY enough the following season to break through their annual October Obstacle? Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m a faithful fan, watching as many games as I can every season, rooting them on every time. And, I absolutely would rather have a team that actually gets to play every October than not. But, I’m thinking that a lot of the Braves (the Jones boys, etc.) have never been involved in an actual losing season before. Maybe a taste of it - preferably a very BRIEF one - might be the thing they need. That and a better bullpen! I wish the big corp owner would expand the budget slightly more so that a better bullpen it could be possible. What do you bloggers think of this idea?

By Rod

October 11, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

Sadly, we still live in losersville, just in a better neighborhood! These guys may be winners in a certain sense, but are certainly not champions. Their performance in the postseason speaks for its self.

By jere

October 11, 2005 01:36 PM | Link to this

1 for 14/batting .071 for titles…this has to be record for futility////feel sorry for veterans like smoltz becuz he can’t pitch every game…have to really admire fans who keep going to games year in and year out to witness playoff malfunctions…when is the last time we stopped the opponent in the first inning of the first game…setting tone for series?

By Carroll

October 11, 2005 01:37 PM | Link to this

The Braves had (and always have had)plenty of talent and ability to go all the way…you don’t even get INTO the playoffs without it! If you could, then I guess your beloved divisional championshits don’t mean s** after all right? And if the playoffs are such a crapshoot as everyone loves to say, then the Braves should have just as good a chance as any, right? Guess all you guys who claim to be “real fans” aren’t so after all since you obviously never believed your Braves could do it in the firts place. Well excuse the hell out of me for daring to believe. Trust me, it won’t happen again! I’ve gotta go eat my dirt now!

By Chip

October 11, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

I read where Chipper look @ his wife and said what do I do now since the season is over. DUH, the same thing you do every year watch the rest of the playoffs on TV, Mr. can’t buy a hit with 15 mill.

By Carroll

October 11, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this

Tami: I thought about that but I don’t that it would work. If you track the Braves succession of failures over the last 10-12 years, you see a trend whereby losing becomes accepted and expected, and standards get lower and lower. At one time, you couldn’t imagine a WS w/o the Braves, then they started losing in the NLCS. Once it happened, it became acceptable to the Braves to bow out in the LCS. But you thought surely the’d never lose a divisional series….then it happened and it too became acceptable. Now all they do is work on excuses and justifications. And I guarantee that the first time the Braves fail to make the playoffs, you won’t see them in there again for quite some time because then it will become acceptable, and the losers like CJ will just start saying, well we had a great year and at least we finished in 2nd. And all the pathetic fans will say I remember the days when we finished last every year so I’ll take 2nd place. Then it will go down to 3rd place and so forth. We’re on that slippery slope and it only goes down from here. That’s why we need major change NOW!

By Andrew

October 11, 2005 01:45 PM | Link to this

Mark, I think you may be overstated in calling this a ‘curse’. The Braves wiped out a curse in 1995. I started rooting for the Braves as a little kid in the early 80’s when Torre was manager. Back then, it really was ‘wait til next year’. I remember players like Washington in RF, utility man Royster, Murph, Ramirez, Horner, Garber, Bedrock. I swore off the Braves when they traded away Brett Butler to the then mighty Dodgers (that’s right, the Dodgers were once mighty). I’ll always root for the Braves, their farm system is unlike any other. Cox is a hero - let’s build a bronze statue in front of the stadium - induct him into the managers hall-of-fame. It’s time for his retirement party - and let’s give him a cake and a send off party. We didn’t have ‘blogs’ in the 80’s but if we did I’m sure people would have said - “just give me some post-season play - that’s all I ask”

By Tami

October 11, 2005 01:48 PM | Link to this

Well, Carroll: I guess then it sounds like the Braves need to do something drastic like change managers or something. I read a blogger’s comments yesterday suggesting that Torre could be out now that the Yankees are eliminated. Any chance that he might be the answer? It’s a tough question for me to ask since I think Cox has done an excellent job for the most part.

By Marc

October 11, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

Do you really think the TW executives give a damn whether the Braves or Yankees or Mets win the World Series? Do you really think they make decisions based on the fact that they are Yankee or Met fans rather than on how it will impact the business? If so, you are very naive. The only thing they care about is the profitability of the corporation—they aren’t spending or not spending on the Braves because they like the Yankees or the Mets. The problem with TW is not some ostensible conflict of interest, but the fact that they don’t think spending more money on the Braves will contribute to the overall profitability of the corporation. If they made decisions that favored the Mets or Yankees and resulted in financial harm to the corporation, they would probably be subject to shareholder lawsuits. Money and profit mean much more to the TW executives than some ostesnible rooting interest in the Mets and Yankees.

By Carroll

October 11, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this

Tami: Torre is too much like Cox. Both are good managers and good men. But we need someone to light a fire. On the other hand, if we could get rid of the bad attitudes like CJ, Roachie, etc, and get professionals who can produce and lead without a high energy manager, then I think either BC or Torre would do fine. But this is like the blind leading the blind.

By John

October 11, 2005 01:57 PM | Link to this

The more you care the more it hurts to lose. Sure there’s plenty of blame to go around but I’d rather focus on those to thank then those to blame. Thank you Braves for another great season of watching a competitive team battle for another division championship…14 years of excitement. How about them Yankee fans..guess who they’re blaming. We’re spoiled and I love it! Thank you John S, Bobby, Andrew, Chipper, Raffy, Marcus et al

By MD

October 11, 2005 01:57 PM | Link to this

Come on People…Get with the program here. You either ARE a Braves Fan… or you ARE NOT! You either support the team or you don’t… and Bishop….. Lose the curse idea. It’s stupid!

By DD

October 11, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this

Wow—and I thought I was upset that the Braves lost. What else could Bobby Cox have done? In game 4, Hudson was toast. He pitched into the 8th inning on short rest. He had a rested Farnsworth, who has been lights out. It was a no-brainer to bring him in. Closers are asked to pitch two innings in the playoffs all the time. Look at the games: they lost game 1 because Hudson couldn’t calm down—or get his pitches down—then the bullpen blew it open. Won game 2 with Smoltz. Lost game 3 when the bullpen blew open a tight game, and then the horrible implosion of game 4. The bullpen WAS horrible, and yet the Braves traded for two closers in less than a year—Kolb and Farnsworth. The players didn’t perform. Period. I agree that LaRoche and his lack of hustle needs to go. We’d be better off without Chipper too, but no one wants his $17 million contract, plus he can’t be traded without his consent (he’s a 10-5 man). Hampton’s injury is a blessing in disguise, because insurance will pick up most of his $15 million, freeing up money to get another starter much cheaper than that, and hopefully to resign Furcal…….And next year, we’ll all be back because, despite it all, we love baseball and the Braves are our team…….

By bravesfanbob

October 11, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this

At the risk of sounding appreciative for the Braves of the last 15 years, I truly enjoyed the team this year more than any since the 1991 season. How do you people come down so hard on a team that none of you thought would get to the playoffs anyway? The rookies, Andruw’s beat year of his career, Chipper refusing surgery so he could help the ballclub, and playing in terrible pain all season, Bobby and Leo’s ability to take a pitching staff desimated with injuries and still get wins,… and yet, you still have to take your shots, don’t you? You people NEED to get a life! This year was the greatest accomplishment in Bobby Cox’s Hall of Fame career, but as always, you have to have the idiots out there who don’t know the game put these guys down. Not me. Raffy, Gillys, Chip, Druw, Roachy, Juli, Frenchie, Ryan, Estrada, McCann (the Campbells’ Soup Kid), Kelly, BJ, Pete, Wilson, Smoltzie, Huddy, Ramirez, JT, Hamp, Sosa, and everyone who wasn’t very talented in the bullpen, (Sorry AOL doesn’t have Steinbrenner’s money), and Kyle, who only blew one save all year, and the idiots want his head on a platter…. Thanks for a fantastic year! I love you guys!

By brian

October 11, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this

In setting up next year’s team, one thing seems clear. Chipper Jones and his $17 million dollar contract need to go. Marte can step in at 3B or Betemit if Furcal is resigned. Spend $8 million or so on a legitimate closer (Danny Baez?). Farnesworth is not an $8 million/year closer. The remainder of the bullpen will need to be bolstered if another year of maturity does not help Boyer, McBride, and Devine.

By DD

October 11, 2005 02:26 PM | Link to this

Brian—What sucker is going to take Chipper and his $17 million contract? And he CAN’T BE TRADED AGAINST HIS WISHES because he’s been in the big leagues 10 years and five with the same team. The Braves are stuck with Chipper, but they should take him up on his offer to restructure his contract and free up more money for next year……

By Alan

October 11, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

I, too, am a long-time and long-suffering Braves fan, and I’m here to say I’ll be back next year. As all REAL fans (of all teams) will be. What went wrong? Could it be the Braves lost to a better team? Especially: Better starting pitchers. A much better, deeper bullpen. And (perhaps most importantly) a much deeper bench. The key to game 4 was not 18 runners left on base (although it surely hurt) or LaRoche (a notorously slow runner even when he’s feeling well — never should have been waved home) getting thrown out or Giles’ errant footwork or Chipper not hustling (?!) after a foul pop. It was Hudson walking the leadoff hitter in the 8th inning. He obviously was gassed, and Cox did the right thing in taking him out. Granted, Hudson got the next hitter to hit that weak grounder up the middle, and who knows what might have happened if the Braves got the forceout, but they didn’t. And it all unraveled from there. And it’s Bobby Cox’s fault. Or maybe it’s Jim Leyritz’s fault. Come on. This is baseball — the greatest game — with no clock. This was a terrific season, better than any of us could have expected. The future looks very bright — as it does every year. Relax and enjoy the offseason. See you in ‘06.

By Carroll

October 11, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this

In re: trading Chipper, two points…

1. He has made it abundantly clear that he would entertain trade offers.

2. You say nobody would take his contract but when you consider what teams have spent over the last few years for the likes of Beltran, A-Fraud, Pedro Martinez, Adriane Beltre, et al, Chipper would be bargain for some teams at 17 mill.

Perhaps the Yankees would take him as a DH or put him at 3rd, and shift A-Fraud to SS and Jeter to 2nd base?Maybe we could get Robinson Cano and Tony Womack in return. Then we could trade Gilys for some bullpen help and let Fooky go and we’d have a good, young 2nd baseman in return (Cano) who can actually HIT in the playoffs and Womack could play SS and be the ideal leadoff hitter that Fooky could only be in our dreams. After all, Womack has already led one team to an improbable WS Championship and the Cards last year to a WS berth. Hell, maybe we could even get Tanyon Sturtz in return for our pen.

By Cassandra

October 11, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

I think that the Braves should get a new manager and let the youger guys (BABY BRAVES) play more. Most of all recruit a high profile player to give the team a lot of attention. The manager and the team is only doing 99!/2 and when they get to a certain point in the playoffs they don’t make it to the next half.

By Martin Morris

October 11, 2005 03:16 PM | Link to this

Still waiting on “all out effort” LaRoche to peddle on home.

By Go Angels

October 11, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this

What’s more impressive…14 division titles in 15 years (have you all forgotten about 1993?) or 1 world series championship in 14 trips to the post season?

The Marlins have more championships than the Braves…

By Michael

October 11, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this

Come on Mark, can’t you find anything legit to write about? Curse my @$$. They just haven’t been good enough, plain and simple. This year, it was the bullpen. In years past, it was the bats or the starters. For whatever reason, the Braves have had a weakness every year since 1995 that got exploited. Is that a curse? Of course not. Curses are excuses for those with lazy minds. The reasons for the Braves failure are obvious, not the result of some mythical hex.

By Brian

October 11, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

Alan-finally a rational,common sense appraisal of the whole situation unlike the many irrational ramblings!

By Tami

October 11, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

My conclusion on today’s bloggers: Every one has made some very good and solid points whether the consensus is in agreement or not. One way or the other, I feel that it was made abundantly LOUD and clear that the bullpen needs to be reinforced and you know J.S. will be working on something there. I’m not sure it’s an altogether smart idea to trade Chipper (after all, good players who leave seem to come back to haunt the Braves later). But, except for the Baby Braves, Chipper, Smoltz and Andruw, I don’t think anyone else is off-limits. I’ve decided that I enjoyed this season - particularly from the time of the rookies’ callups - and I’m looking forward to next season because of the new “blood” and energy that the rookies provided this season. We’re going to hear of moves this offseason that we’re all not going to agree with as usual. Let’s just hope that J.S. doesn’t make too many foolish moves. As the saying goes….STAY TUNED.

By Wells

October 11, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this

Maybe you should all get a hobby; something that involves doing, instead of watching.

By Wendy

October 11, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

For starters, we did not lose the game on poor baserunning, we lost the game because we coughed up a 5-run lead!!! Should LaRoche have assumed he would not get waved home? No. But he was puking all day and it’s no worse that Giles’ foot off the bag, Chipper’s throw with Julio having to stretch, etc. It was one of a couple mental mistakes. They happen. LaRoche hit a grand slam but him getting tagged out at home lost the game? Ridiculous!! As if he’s not super slow, anyway.

I’ll tell you what lost us the game - walking Luke Scott to get to Lance Berkman. Walk a .188 PH to get to Berkman? Brilliant. And then you give up a homer to Brad freikin Ausmus? And then the top of our order swings for the fences for the next 9 innings? Oh, but it’s all Adam’s fault. Guess who were the top 2 hitters? Andruw and LaRoche, but we better get rid of him…

And as for the Marlins, who the heck cares? They have 2 WS in the last 10 years, but they play in a FB stadium, the are 28th or 29th in the league in attendance (so NO ONE goes to their games), their manager quit and their team chemsitry was disasterous. Please forgive me if I don’t consider the Marlins the model franchise. Heck of a lot of good winning those WS did, huh?

By ADL

October 11, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

Chipper Jones is not a great player.

Great players pick up their team and carry it on their backs when things get tough. Great players thrive on pressure situations and tight games. Chipper is content to have a fine regular season, lay down in the playoffs and then go home and hunt with his dad.

By William

October 11, 2005 03:59 PM | Link to this

The Braves are not cursed, if they were they would not have won 14 straight division crowns. Is your view that only 1 of 30 teams a year is successful because they happen to survive the playoffs? I for one remember the Braves of the 70’s and 80’s and I will take this regime over them everytime. The people that truly know professional sports realize that this organization has already captured the impossible. I hope they win 15 in a row and I will proudly wear my Braves hat where ever I travel in this great country. Be thankful for what you have, an organization that is admired by 29 other teams and only wishes they could achieve half the success this team has seen!

By Steve

October 11, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this

Mark,

Offense, you are an idiot. I didn’t read one thing anybody had to say because you were enough. The Braves are no Red Sox #1. #2 if you believe that and predict that they will “fall again next fall” then quit your pathetic job and stop being a Braves fan, please. Us REAL fans don’t need you and your criticism and cheap shots. Botttom line is they have no bullpen. You think Booby would have had Devine in the game if Hampton was healthy, if Boyer was healthy??? You can’t predict late September injuries fool. Also, can you predict what DAN KOLB did this year?? HELL NO!!! The bullpen was a mess all year. THAT is why they lost!! Smoltz getting hurt didn’t help. They will shore up the bullpen and all will be fine. I just ask that you come on here and admit you were an idiot for your comments. Sure we are all p** you have to be mature about it. They are no Red Sox that is for sure. I love this team and Bobby, they just need to get that bullpen straightened out and have Smoltz healthy. Also Bobby needs to stop those sac bunts. That is my only criticism on Bobby, he is always giving up outs with those sacs that dont come through. All will be fine and the squad will be bullpen improved, atleast hopefully so because it is blatant that is what screwed them and that is the only area that needs improvement. BILLY WAGNER!

By BraveMan

October 11, 2005 04:15 PM | Link to this

I am so sick and tired of all the people saying what is wrong with the Braves and with Bobby Cox.

Yes, there have been times I have questioned Bobby’s managerial moves, but this year was not one of those times. He did nothing wrong this entire series. And if you think taking out Hudson in the eighth was a wrong move, you weren’t looking closely. Hudson’s pitches did not have any “zip” at all, he was looking tired (remember…three days rest?)and had he stayed in, he could just as easily given up those 4 runs himself.

Yes, our bullpen was not good this year. That is not Bobby Cox’ fault, he had who he had, and truth is, the Braves should have finished no higher than third in their division this year. The fact they made the playoffs at all tells you they played with intensity and made the most of what they had.

For you naysayers on Bobby, how many managers do you know that are active today could have managed a team comprised mostly of rookies to a divisional title?

What we fans CAN get excited about IS the rookies. I truly believe we will be in the World Series in the not so distant future. All we need is a couple of relievers and one more strong starter.

Hitting was not a problem. You can blame Braves for all the stranded players all you want to, but all 4 games we scored enough to win. The pitching let us down. This is the FIRST series I can remember where you can actually say the offense did enough to win. 5 runs in the first loss, we win the second game, 3 runs in the third loss and 6 runs in the fourth. HOW MANY RUNS DOES IT TAKE TO CONVINCE YOU ALL THAT THE BATS DID THEIR JOB?!

So, go follow some other team. Get yourself happy and start watching the DevilRays, the Royals, the Nationals, the Rangers. Gee, those teams are ALWAYS in the playoffs and winning…oh wait, I forget, it’s only teams like THE BRAVES who are in the playoffs year after year…..

By Steve

October 11, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

Carroll is hands down the belt holder of the Village Idiot title ‘round here. She is a FAKE FAN FOOL!! Carroll go root for the D-Rays hunny, PLEASE!!! They need your brilliant insight down there in Florida baby, not here, I think we are all set here. You are a negative, miserable, vile woman.

By Carroll

October 11, 2005 04:25 PM | Link to this

One other thing about Sundays game. Didn’t the 9 innings of scoreless relief from the bullpen almost seem like a spiteful slap in the face? I mean…it was as if to say, look what we could do if we really wanted to. Yeah thanks a lot after the series was effectively over at that point. Where were you all in games 1 and 3?!

The only one out of the entire pen for whom I have even one speck of respect at this point is Jim Brower. Here was a guy that Bill and I debated about before the series and I swore he was just a homer waiting to happen, and should not be on the roster. But that dude buckled down, stepped up and pitched about 6 or so scoreless innings of relief over the course of the series. I still don’t think he’s a long-term solution out there but man alive did he show some cajones. For once, a guy in a Braves jersey who stepped it up a notch and played a bit above his capabilities when it mattered most. Congrats and nice job, dude!

By Steve

October 11, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this

Does Carroll ever get off these blogs?? Thanks for proving my previous point sweetheart, “Village Idiot”!!!!

By Alan

October 11, 2005 04:47 PM | Link to this

You’re right, Wendy, about the 8th inning walk to Scott, right before Berkman’s slam. Farnsworth threw a nasty 3-2 slider — it’s hard to believe Scott laid off, but he did. Give him credit, along with all of the Astros. You’re also right about the Marlins’ situation. Yeah, they’ve won two World Series, but the rest of the time they’ve been a mess. Already there’s talk they’ll have to dump Delgado this winter. And finally (for now), how come no one has mentioned how poorly Gary Sheffield played — again —this postseason. I’m sure the NY bloggers are justifiably all over him —and A-Rod and Matsui. The Big Apple, indeed.

By Carroll

October 11, 2005 04:53 PM | Link to this

Alan: if it’s justifiable for them to be all over Sheff, A-Fraud, et.al., then it’s perfectly justifiable for us to get on the Braves, right? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

By Charles

October 11, 2005 05:08 PM | Link to this

There are certainly two things that have become certain to most of these people - (1) they have absolutely no life, because all they do is sit on this blog all day, and (2) no matter what a particular player does (Chipper got on base 4 of 9 times, idiots) (Andruw hit .470 for the series, idiots) (Furcal was one of the best SSs in the NL during the 2nd half, idiots), it won’t matter.

The Astros players were equally bad - Ensberg went 0-7 and Biggio went 0-6. Look at A-Rod (.133), Matsui (.200), Figgans (.143), Finley (.093), etc. Get out of the Braves bubble for once, for God’s sake. Ever played in an 18 inning game after being practically assured of a victory and then having to face a Hall of Famer, the best slider in all of baseball and two other relievers with 2.50 ERA or better. You freaking people are amazing to me. Get a life, please. Play a game of sports beyond high school before you judge others. Get out of your little world and realize that this is playoff baseball. You don’t get hits everytime. Getting on base 4 of 9 times in ONE game is phenominal. What is wrong with you idiots?

By Carroll

October 11, 2005 05:14 PM | Link to this

1/15

By Greg from Marietta

October 11, 2005 06:15 PM | Link to this

Mark,

Sad to admit a very accurate and telling article. Please do me a favor. The next time you talk to Bobby Cox or Mr. Schuerholtz please tell them to employ a “Sports Psychologist” toward the end of the season next year. And if they do make it for the 15th time in a row have each player have individual sessions. Baseball, like most sports, is 20% physical and 80% mental and it seems that the Braves “Psych-Out” during the playoffs every year.

But I can’t be to critical of the Braves, because I know I’ll fall into the same trap next year and pull for them like I always do during the season only to be disappointed in the end. So is the life of a Braves Fan.

By Greg from Marietta

October 11, 2005 06:16 PM | Link to this

Mark,

Sad to admit a very accurate and telling article. Please do me a favor. The next time you talk to Bobby Cox or Mr. Schuerholtz please tell them to employ a “Sports Psychologist” toward the end of the season next year. And if they do make it for the 15th time in a row have each player have individual sessions. Baseball, like most sports, is 20% physical and 80% mental and it seems that the Braves “Psych-Out” during the playoffs every year.

But I can’t be to critical of the Braves, because I know I’ll fall into the same trap next year and pull for them like I always do during the season only to be disappointed in the end. So is the life of a Braves Fan.

By Charles

October 11, 2005 06:38 PM | Link to this

Carroll, what would you suggest the Braves do? McCann/Francoeur/Langerhans were a combined 0-5 with RISP. Should we trade these bums out of their first post-season? Orr and Betemit were 0-2. These guys must be real bums. They got about 6 at-bats in the last 3 weeks of the season. Franco was 0-2. He’s only 47, so we should get some good, quality players for him. Everyone else that got the opportunity was 0-1 except for LaRoche. That isn’t exactly grounds for trading. A couple of times guys hit the ball hard. Chipper had two great at-bats with guys on (and not on) and worked a walk to get Andruw to the plate. Much of the 1-15 came before the 9th inning, yet the team was up 6-1. C’mon man, get a grip. Seriously. Take a step back. The Astros had 10 hits in 18 innings. They were equally terrible but finally got through to a guy pitching at NC State earlier this year. Just stop the name and mud slinging. Grow up, my man.

By L Reese

October 11, 2005 08:40 PM | Link to this

I think Atlanta’s fortunes unfortunately fell on the luck of the draw. Remember, the Astros won the wild card by a huge one game over the Phils. If the Phils had been the wild card team, we would have found out how good or bad the Braves REALLY were. Let your imagination run wild if the Braves had lost to San diego. Don’t be surprised if the Astros don’t upset the heavily favored Cards!

By john

October 11, 2005 10:03 PM | Link to this

bobby cox is a good manager. the braves are good players. i was happy with the effort/emotion the braves put into this season. cox shouldve pinch hit pete orr for mccann in the 13th witht the bases loaded and get orr to put on the squeeze play. cox shouldve taken reistma out earlier in game 1. hes still the best manager of our time though. the braves fans still suck. maybe if we could sell out a playoff game, the team would perform better. we had a night game and still couldnt sell it out. we struggled for 40,000 in game 1. i was at both 2 games and had tickets for game five. so all of you fans from the couch have no room to talk. so support, and maybe things would be different. and if all else fails you dont have to listen to those retards for announcers talk about what a hero roger clemens is for pitching 3 shut out innings…even though he got dominated in game 2 by smoltz. it was a disappointing october once again but come opening day ill be right back at the ballpark with my tomohawk ready for another exciting season. i love this team. this is my favorite team ever sense i was old enough to know what was going on. the saddest part of losing saterday was that the season was over, not that we lost, but because i couldnt watch the braves the next day. dont give up on the team. atleast we make it to october, and i do believe that sense 1991 only 7 other teams have won the world series. so we’re luckier then 22 other teams. please just show support next year go to a game. i know a whomping 5$ tickets might be a bit much for some of us but please just show your support. theyre a great group of kids. and on the good side…andruw jones for the first time this season showed that he cared. i loved that. i love this game. i love this team.

next year is ours. believe.

By Willy

October 12, 2005 02:55 AM | Link to this

Get a clue, AOL owns the braves. The end is near, really near.

By Bravo

October 12, 2005 03:20 AM | Link to this

Wholesale changes? Not necessary. Strengthen the pen as much as possible, add one midrange starter (or just bring back Thomson), and we’re good to go. Yes, we’d all like another big bopper, but reality bites.

And best of all, we’ve still got BC/Leo. To anybody complaining about BC leaving Farnsworth in for two innings, who would have been better? Bobby watched the same games we did all week (and summer!) long, and there had only been one consistent guy. Season on the line, you had to go to Farnsworth.

You’d never hear him say it, but Bobby (and most of us here) knew the other guys just couldn’t be trusted with even a 5-run lead. Who knew Farnsworth had also been infected?!

By Dennis

October 12, 2005 05:01 AM | Link to this

I still think the common failure of the Braves in postseason has been the bullpen. Sometimes middle relief. Sometimes closer.

I begin to wonder if Leo Mazzone, as great as he is at coaching starters, just can’t coach bullpen. Maybe we need two pitching coaches. Mazzone working with the starters and a specialist working with only the bullpen.

By Chris

October 12, 2005 06:37 AM | Link to this

Yes, let’s all start believing in mystical curses that hold us down. Then we can be as big a group of idiots as all the Red Sox fans out there. Curses…give me a break!

By Wally

October 12, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

What many of you lack in articulation, you make up for with illogic. On the other hand, I hope the Braves’ players, front office and support staff take the time to read this webpage before departing for the off-season. They will feel better about themselves immediately, knowing how little insight resides with their critics.

By Steve

October 12, 2005 10:35 AM | Link to this

RIGHT ON JOHN!!!!!!!!!!! I travel from New Jersey by CAR every summer for a week to catch 3-6 games of the Braves. That is how much I love this team and always will. John is right 7 teams have won the WS since 91. One of those was the BRAVES!!! And it easily could have been 3 WS Titles!!! So everybody shut up, you can’t win every year!! The bullpen will get sured up and all will be fine. If you fake fans just want to b*** about everything stop being a fan. Please.

By Nicholas Irwin

October 12, 2005 10:50 AM | Link to this

Tony Womack? You’ve got to be kidding me. I have kept my mouth shut for awhile here, but suggesting we get Tony Womack put me over the edge. You do realize that he was the second-worst everyday position player in baseball this year, behind only Christian Guzman of the Nationals, don’t you? And I don’t think we know what Robinson Cano can do in the playoffs.

And we’ll take Chipper out of it for a second, because he did have a terrible series (although I still vehemently disagree that he plays with no heart. Not getting the big hit and playing without heart are two totally different things.), but you people who are criticizing Andruw have lost your freaking minds. He hit OVER .500 in the series. Frequently he was the only person doing anything. There was a shot early in the game the other day of him very frustrated at LaRoche for striking out and leaving him on second. He leaped for the home run ball even when he knew it was gone. He appeared to be the most upset of anybody in the clubhouse. What in God’s name do you people want from this guy??? He isn’t going anywhere. In fact, he just passed Chipper for the title of most indispensable player on the team. As far as I’m concerned, if you’re Schuerholz you get rid of everybody, including the equipment managers and yourself, before you even think about getting rid of Andruw Jones.

And about LaRoche, need I remind you that we wouldn’t even have been as far ahead as we were without him. Taking being thrown out at the plate away, a play on which he NEVER SHOULD’VE BEEN SENT, he again was big in the postseason. This is a guy we need to keep for his postseason numbers if nothing else.

Now as far as Furcal goes, I’ve been back and forth on this all season, but I’ve come to the conclusion that the angry people are right on this. Unless the payroll increases exponentially, we just need to let him go. He will not be worth the massive amount of money it will take, and if we manage to re-sign him, we will have no money left to shore up the bullpen.

Estrada should be traded, as should whoever we decide won’t be the starter in left field (Johnson or Langerhans). Dump the entire bullpen, with the possible exception of Farnsworth. I know you people are gonna say I’m crazy, but he did not blow a single save all season (even the one he blew the other day wasn’t actually a save.) If the price is reasonable, I would definitely re-sign him. All of the veteran players in the bullpen need to be junked, though. Reitsma, Foster, Brower, Kolb…all gone. Boyer and McBride are obviously mainstays of the bullpen starting next year, and Devine will be soon, although he should start next season in the minors. He’s just too raw and needs to work on a viable breaking ball. As soon as he gets a breaking ball capable of striking people out and getting them to look somewhere other than the fastball, bring him back up. There should be a spot in the rotation for Kyle Davies to win coming out of spring training, probably Thomson’s. If Smoltz can’t come back, then we need to go out and get another starting pitcher as well as Davies.

By johnmcq1962

October 12, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this

ok its now wednesday,i’m almost glad i’ve waited to write…sundays’ loss was absolutely gut wrenching…no doubt..but the thing i dreaded most was the reactions from the media and fans about yet another playoff failure…and i know how everyone feels..i am also a lifetime braves fan.from when the braves moved to atlanta..i was only 4 but from the time i can remember listening on the radio….when that was the only way to get the game.. to milo and ernie, paint the pictures of my idol hank aaron,(from my hometown of mobile)phil niekro,ralph garr,buzz capri…and alike when i could only hope we had a winning season…the playoffs were for the reds,dodgers,mets,yankees,oriloes those really good teams..then in the middle 70’s were we so awful..but i didnt care i got to SEE them on tv the blessing of the supperstation..id even watch the replays!!!so i actually have seen 200 loss seasons…and i was just as heartbroken as everyone these last few years…but lets look at it from a different perspective for just a minute the division series has added a level of playoff games that until 1995 were not inplay…so if you look back at this…our record while not what we would love to have it still staggering and true baseball fans and experts know that….in the last 14 years we have advanced to the national league championship series 9 of those years..winning 5 national league pennents which is something in a 14 year period almost every team in the majors would take…so that means we are 5-4 in nl championship series…nothing to be ashamed of playing against the very best of the best in our league…while it is true our world series record is only 1 and 4.it could very easily be a better record..3-2 easy…the ‘91 world series though we lost proved we were winners anyway..i remember many people saying the twins and braves shoulda just split the trophy after the 9th in game 7…the one that really hurt our legacy was ‘96 which we dominated the cardinals and yankees up to that fateful homer off wohlers..if we could have hung on we would have be crowned one of the best teams ever so while we are crushed by the last years failures we must hold our heads high and realize just how great a organization we have now and just how spoiled by in season success its still far better to me than one hit wonders that win a championship then dissapear for many years i’ll take anothe 5 trips to the world series no matter the outcome in the next 14 years and i believe any team would…..

By John

October 12, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

The Braves need to be sold to an idividual. They do not need to be under control of a corporation. The constant focus on the bottom line drains the team of their heart.

By Carroll

October 12, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this

Now I have even more respect for A-Fraud than Chipper. Check out these comments from A-Fraud that I ran across regarding his postseason treachery:

“I played great baseball all year, and I played like a dog the last five days. I can’t put it into words. This is as low as it gets. I felt good, I saw the ball well,� Rodriguez said. “If I would have contributed some, maybe we would be moving on to Chicago.

“I’ve got to take a long look in the mirror because I didn’t do my part. I mean, you win and lose as a team, but I didn’t show up.�

Just a little responsibility/accountability makes it a lot easier for people to forgive you.

By Carroll

October 12, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

Nicky: First, don’t get down on Womack because of what he did this one year. It was just one year and perhaps it was the pressure of playing in NY or being asked to play the outfield for the first time in his career (to make up for Bernie Williams shortcomings). He has been solid and an ideal leadoff man in the past.

As far as Cano, he had a good year and was perhaps the Yanks’ best playoff player offensively. I think he’s already done more offensively in this playoff season alone than CJ has in the last 2 postseasons combined.

For the record, Nicky, I haven’t advocated getting rid of AJ since he came out of his mid season slump. I think he turned a major corner this season and we will finally reap the benefits of our years of patience and frustration. Now is definitely not the time to move him!

I definitely agree with trading Estrada, and in fact that brings me right back to the Yanks. I’ve heard they will be looking for a Posada replacement. Maybe we could get either of the guys I mentioned or Tanyon Sturtz (very solid bullpen guy I think).

As far as an extra starting pitcher (if needed), I know this sounds crazy and I will prolly be lampooned, but what about trying Reeksma as a starter? He definitely has the stuff to be a good pitcher. Perhaps its the uncertainty of being a reliever? Perhaps the pressure? Maybe starting and going every 5 days or so would get more out of him. Anyone know what his story was when he tried starting with the Reds? Of course my first instinct is to get rid of him but knowing BC and JS he’ll likely be back and I’d rather see him start than continue to come into games at crucial times and blow what would otherwise be a win.

By Charles

October 12, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this

Carroll, what you don’t get and obviously never will is that other players are not Chipper Jones. I’d be willing to bet that if you asked any (and I mean any) player that Chipper Jones has played with, that you will hear comments about how much he lives and dies in that clubhouse. How much he cares and what a vast misperception some fans have of him. I have several friends that know Braves players personally, and they all sing the same story about Chipper Jones - a great player, a great clubhouse presence, with a great sense of team and loyalty to the true fans of Atlanta.

Just because a player comes out and says “I played awful,” so what. Who cares? You don’t think Chipper Jones knows that he shouldn’t have been trying to win that game with one swing? You don’t think that he hurts as bad as anyone? Do you think he suits it up 200 times a year, moves positions, takes less than he could have gotten in free agency, changes places in the batting order three or four times, offers to restructure his deal so the team can sign Hudson or Furcal, and is a true leader and someone that the kids on this team can go to just because he’s a bum?

Chipper conducted several hitters meetings throughout the course of the year. He took my friend’s friend aside on a dozen occasions to help him along the way. He has been a mentor to Brian McCann and Jeff Francoeur and Ryan Langerhans and Adam LaRoche. Ask those guys how they feel about Chipper Jones.

If you honestly think it matters what you think about Chipper Jones, you simply show your ignorance about what makes this man tick. From reading some of your posts over the last few weeks, I can honestly tell that you honestly believe in your world that you are making a difference here. You aren’t. You are a simple minded fool that thinks that you have it all figured out. You don’t.

Take a step back for a second and get off your soap-box. It is so easy to sit behind a computer screen and pretend you are Cafaro or Garfield or Carroll or whoever the hell you pretend to be. Why don’t you sign in with your real name for once in your life, tell everyone who you are, and say something meaningful. It’s been a long time coming.

Everyone here wants to say this, believe me. I just beat them to it. Self-evaluation time, Carroll/Garfield/Cafaro. Time to stop throwing daggers and do something constructive.

Later.

By Bobby

October 12, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this

I’ve never in my life heard so much whinning. A fan roots for a team not simply because they win,,, if that were the case,,, there are a lot of teams that would not have a single fan at the games next season. I won’t go into why as fans we love the game,, and root for our team,, some things just need to be figured out by yourselves you whinners. But then again,, most of you don’t get it now,,, and won’t ever get it. Go Braves,,, we’ll get em next year.

By Scott

October 12, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this

The reason the Braves lost was because they really weren’t that talented. It’s actually amazing they won the East at all with a nighmarish bullpen and so many rookies. None of the current rookies batted higher than .284 in the minors, but we expect them to excel in their first playoff series in the majors against the best starting pitching in Baseball. The Braves won on enthusiam and guts and should have finished far out of first place. To read some of the blogs you would think that people would rather they lose the division than to win and lose the first round. Bobby Cox is getting slammed again even though I can’t think of another coach who could have done as well with so little.

By True Braves Fan

October 12, 2005 05:51 PM | Link to this

Charles: I think you verbalized the thoughts and sentiments of most of us bloggers. I know you certainly did for me. Thank You.

By Nicholas Irwin

October 12, 2005 06:04 PM | Link to this

Yeah, sorry Carroll. I didn’t qualify who was saying Andruw Jones should go, and it hasn’t been you, but there definitely have been people who have suggested it in the last few days, which just seems absurd to me.

I’m not sure what Reitsma’s contract situation is, and I’m sure if it’s up, somebody would probably sign him to a Major League contract to be a reliever, as he has been solid for stretches, so this idea probably wouldn’t work, but if we’re going to go through with your suggestion, we should sign him to a non-roster contract going into spring training and work to see if we can turn him into a starter. Then, if we can’t, it won’t cost anything to junk him at the end of March.

Whatever we do, we need to sign or trade for at least one veteran middle reliver. This piecemeal crap just isn’t working. Somebody like what we had a few years ago with Mike Remlinger. Maybe a Steve Kline (although he’s a jackass, so we probably wouldn’t get him), a Scot Shields, a Julian Tavarez…somebody like that. Then if we also re-sign Farnsworth (or some other legitimate closer) in addition to that and have Boyer, McBride and only one or two stop-gap type people, we would be on the way to being alright. The stop-gaps could even come from our current gigantic list of stop-gaps, if we want to be extremely cheap and unoriginal. Hell, they’re stop gaps, so who really cares? Take Brower and Foster for the sake of argument, since one’s lefty and one’s righty. This would put us in at least a respectable position.

I must say I’m far more optimistic after this year than I have been after the last two. This year we have young talent that has shown that they can play at the Major League level. If we can fix our bullpen, we should be in pretty good shape. Were it not for our bullpen, we would have at least gone to Game 5 and we would have been in position to come back in Games 1 and 3. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that if our bullpen had been decent, we would have won this series.

The last two years it was obvious that we were gonna suffer through the same sort of payroll cuts that would have us getting one big name and then throwing a whole bunch pieces together and seeing if they fit. With the rookies, we have a young core that isn’t going to cost a whole lot for a few years now, which will open up money to spend on other things, especially if we don’t re-sign Furcal.

By Carroll

October 12, 2005 06:56 PM | Link to this

Nicky: agreed on all accounts. Evidentally we’re among the few real fans who actually believed in the Braves. I certainly did all the way up to the long and bitter end. Sure I got a little bent outta shape during the games…but I thought this year would be different. I won’t say about next year one way or the other until I see what kinda moves we make. But I don’t think we’ll be bad.

By Jack

October 12, 2005 08:04 PM | Link to this

It’s not Bobby’s fault, it’s not Furcal’s fault. It’s not Smoltz’s fault.

I blame everything on the chop! The chop is a rally killer. The chop is a crowd noise killer. The Braves have no home field advantage because of the chop. No one does it, no one likes it (except children). I bet the players hate it. I guarantee Bobby Cox thinks it stupid. The baseball world laughs at us. It is a joke.

Think about it? The Braves get a couple of hits. The fans begin to get loud. Then we hear the goofy intro to the chop and about 30% of fans start chanting. The other 70% shut up. The crowd noise deteriorates. Chipper grounds out to second. It sucks.

I use to believe the chop was part of our division dominance. It was pretty cool when it all started in the early 90s. Now I believe it’s a part of our home field October failures. Please, please, please get rid of that stupid chop and the Braves will dominate at home, maybe.

Maybe Outkast could come up with something new. Not Travis Tritt. Yes, I am a white dude.

Chop the Chop in 2006 and the Braves will either loose the division or win it all.

Is anyone reading this?

By Carroll

October 12, 2005 08:10 PM | Link to this

yes. disagree.

By Danielle

October 12, 2005 08:33 PM | Link to this

I personally think the Braves need another starting pitcher, straighthen the bullpen. I would dump whole bullpen except Farnsworth, McBride & Boyer. Give Devine time in the minors to mature. They should send Bobby Cox on vacation in postseason.

By jake

October 12, 2005 11:06 PM | Link to this

Did anyone notice that chipper should have caught that foul ball in the eighth inning, he stopped because he was scared of the wall. Derek jeter would have went four rows up to catch that ball. Chipper does’nt want it bad enough. the braves should send him somewhere he can make a paycheck and play the guys that want a ring.

By Huh?

October 13, 2005 12:22 AM | Link to this

Jake, did you notice that Marcus Giles didn’t get a bunt down, Brian McCann didn’t put the ball in play with 1 out and the bases loaded, Francoeur struck out with runners in scoring position, Franco didn’t keep his foot on the bag, Giles didn’t keep his foot on the bag, and LaRoche didn’t bust it to the plate. Maybe we should trade all of them, too. Are you kidding me? Yeah, lets trade Chipper because he didn’t get to a ball 100 feet away from his position and then catch it over his shoulder. Jake, have you ever PLAYED baseball?

By Curveball

October 13, 2005 12:34 AM | Link to this

None of this matters, “if” the Braves want to win, and I mean win it all, then they need to go after players that are hungry to win, and that have the work ethic to finish the job. Money can’t buy heart, and sorry to say this, but I think Cox should be the first out the door. Winning just a division title is kinda like getting your marriage license, but never making it to the alter. The American League has the Oakland Athletics, and the National League has the Atlanta Pathetics! It’s time for a major overhaul…

By todd

October 13, 2005 02:11 AM | Link to this

Just consider yourselves fortunate that Cleveland and its ever worse curse exist or you’d be talking about NEVER having won.

By Steve

October 13, 2005 10:58 AM | Link to this

Jake,

Fully agree with Chipper, he is scared to get hurt. I love Chipper to death, but bottom line is he had about 10-15 more feet of room to catch that ball which landed about 8 feet from the stands….If he ran hard and dove LIKE JETER DID AND WOULD DO AGAIN AND WOULD HAVE IF HE WERE AT 3RD THAT GAME…..The Braves would have been on to Game 5. But no, walk, then Sir Lance did his business. That was overshadowed…ALSO the umps blew it for the Braves too. I saw the replay on the double play by Chipper where Franco’s foot came “off the bag”…..I SAW IT 20 times and it was ON!!!!!!!! Same with Gilly….HIS FOOT WAS ON…He just screwed himself with the second foot tag on 2nd because he wasn’t sure. If he stayed still he would have got the call. I have NEVER seen so much go SOOO wrong in such little time then that game. It’s just horrible to know your favorite teams season who you are a die hard fan for ended over BS!!!!!!!!!!! B.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pathetic umpiring and stupid environment. What’s the deal with that stupid roof there too? Why should they have the advantage of Train sirens and loud bells goin off and all their fans goin nuts and everything echoing all throughout when its FREAKIN SUNNY AND HOT OUT!!!!! LEAVE THE ROOF OPEN UNLESS IT RAINS!!!!!!!! Unfair BS!!! Unpires felt the heat, made the wrong calls and favored the Astros because they were more nervous then Joey Devine, the replays show all the facts. Facts are - UMPS SUCKED!!!!!!!!!!

By Carroll

October 13, 2005 12:09 PM | Link to this

Steve, you are right about the Gily play. He was touching the bag but it appeared that his foot was on the ground right up against the side of the bag. This is still an out, but it can be deceptive to the eye. That and his second effort to tag it did him in.

But, I felt from game one the umps were out to get us…bad calls for Hudsy in game 1, a number of bad calls at first and third in game 2, and then the obvious ones in game 4, not the least of which was the “homer” that hit the yellow line and should have been just a double, so on and so forth.

But, like Mike Scossia said after last nights defeat at the hands of the home plate umpire Doug Eddings (the same ump incidentally that Estrada had the run-in with in the Marlins game mid-season), you have to play atop your game to compensate for the myriad of unfortunate breaks that will go against you in the playoffs. The Braves were clearly unable to do that.

By john

October 13, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this

how about changing managers I am sick and tired of this crap..a total over hall is necessary…its enough to make me a yankee fan

By Buzilla

October 13, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

Your all a bunch of whiners.

Such it up.

Pitchers and catchers report in April

By Mike C.

October 13, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this

I cheer baseball, especially Braves baseball. I wasn’t good enough to play so I choose to put my hopes in those who do. My dreams of ever playing passed long ago. This team is my hope and these players my long empty dream for a little boy’s game that still makes me feel like a boy at heart. People say I’m foolish and maybe I am. But each season the dream begins anew. Having been a Southerner all my life I cheer for southern teams. I associate with them and enjoy seeing the great focus of attention the South gets. No it’s not a throw back to the Civil War but a throwback to the pride and way of life I’ve always loved. A way that for me is just simply better with it’s steeped traditions and profundity of life. The Braves are Southern baseball, not the Marlins or Devil Rays who arrived later with no understanding of true loyalty gained by longtime association. I like the Indians and Red Sox but love the Braves. I allow them to cause me pain and heartbreak which I would take from no other living person except my children. My kids have my total loyalty and so do the Braves. I choose them of my own will. Call me a foolish dreamer. I have many facets of life I enjoy besides baseball but as long as baseball lives in my heart then so do the Braves. So go win another one next year Atlanta. I’ll cheer for Andruw and his little boy way of playing. I’ll pull for stumpy little Giles and Chipper’s faults and failures because he is a Brave. I’ll still get p** off with some of you and your shortcomings and failures. But you represent the South, where I live, it’s people of which I am one, it’s Major League Baseball where I always wanted to play. The dream lives for me as long as I’m alive. Make it happen again Braves. It’s the love of the game I treasure.

By braves fan

October 13, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this

In the past 3 months Carroll has called for the following players to become Braves:Gabe White,Tanyon Sturtze,Tony Womack and Robinson Cano,while calling for the following players to depart:Giles,LaRoche,Furcal,C.Jones and if you go back to April or May A.Jones.LOOK AT THESE NAMES PEOPLE this shows the baseball knowledge that Carroll uses.He talks more on these boards than anyone he demonstrates a total lack of understanding of baseball and the sad thing is that he truly believes that his solutions are an improvement.A truly astonishing display of ignorance and self-grandiose. A pathetic fool is more of an apt description.

By Carroll

October 13, 2005 04:42 PM | Link to this

john: heck yeah!

By JJ Darwin

October 13, 2005 05:41 PM | Link to this

We need to find a name for our curse. May I suggest the Curse of the Great Pumpkin. Every October Charlie Brown would be waiting for the Great Pumpkin who never appeared. We wait for the Great Pumpkin (World Series) every October and it has only shown up once. So like Charlie we go out during the crisp fall nights of October and wait for our pumpkin.

By Carroll

October 13, 2005 06:11 PM | Link to this

I wish to god we had a manager like Scossia….doesn’t give excuses….doesn’t allow his players to get by on excuses….takes accountaility. Even if they lose the series I have an awful lot more respect for him than certain other managers.

JJ: Dyn-O-Mite! Seriously, that’s a cute nickname, but I think it should be something that reflects what actually started the curse or has since sustained it. Here are a few ideas:

1. the Wohlers curse

2. The Leyritz curse

3. The curse of the slider

4. The Chipper curse

5. The Cox curse

And my personal favorite:

1. Revenge of the sloth

By braves fan

October 13, 2005 06:17 PM | Link to this

Carroll shut the f*** up!

By Carroll

October 13, 2005 06:32 PM | Link to this

Now they’re talking about instant replay after last night’s debacle. It certainly would’ve at least sent us back to the ATl for a game 5 if they could’ve looked at a replay and seen that the “homer” was clearly ON the yellow line. Bring it on.

By Curveball

October 13, 2005 08:03 PM | Link to this

It’s not a curse! It’s lazy overpaid underachievers and stupid underpaid overachievers, it’s has beens and never wills, it’s gimps and over the hills, it’s a manager with no fire that can do no wrong, it’s a general manager that’s referred to as a “genius”, it’s 60% of the entire payroll going to 3 or 4 players, it’s the “well we have a team that might get us “to” the postseason” mentality, it’s an owner that just considers the team as a tax write off, it’s players with no heart or desire to win it all, it’s a lead off man that isn’t a lead off man who is always swinging for the stars, it’s a number 2 hitter also swinging for the stars, it’s a number 3 hitter that should be the leader of the team at $16 mil. a year, but is afraid of getting hurt and never shows up in postseason play, it’s a number 4 hitter that finally started listening to his hitting coaches toward the end of this season, it’s a crybaby catcher afraid to play real baseball, and I could just keep going on with this, BUT A CURSE IT’S NOT!

By Get a Clue

October 13, 2005 10:17 PM | Link to this

Lets examine everyone that wants to get rid of Bobby Cox for going 1 for 14. Under that theory, guys that have only won 1 World Series in the last 15 years would need to go. So, we’ve presently got 24 managers that should be looking for jobs. Are you idiots really this dense? LaRussa, sorry you’re gone. Garner, you’re history. Bye Bye Scossica - you’ve only got one. See ya, Terry Francona. Braves fans say you have to go. Would you rather root for the Phillies, Mets, Devil Rays or any of the other 20 teams that haven’t seen a World Series since 1990? Just shut up. Complete overhaul? Same rationale that has made this country full of irrational bozos like so many people on this blog.

By Curveball

October 13, 2005 11:39 PM | Link to this

well get a life: none of those other managers had 13 more opportunities than Cox to win a World Series—must be another one of the Cox relatives…

By Marc

October 14, 2005 09:03 AM | Link to this

Curveball,

Losers like you amaze me. You criticize people for being underachievers and not trying and being “wimps” who can do something you couldn’t even dream about. You have no idea what these guys go through to play ball. Yes, they make a lot of money, but to call complain about Chipper Jones and Estrada, who play through injuries that would probably send you crying to your doctor. You’re the one that needs to get a life.

By Curveball

October 14, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this

Well Marc…you seem to love losers!

By Jerry

October 14, 2005 06:34 PM | Link to this

The Braves don’t have a fighting spirit

That’s the problem.

By Charles

October 14, 2005 07:25 PM | Link to this

oh oh, Jerald is back with his uplifting attitude. Jerald, are you going to tell us about spirit and guts and ESP and the like now? Can we trade Carroll and Jerald for a bullpen guy? Heck, I’d trade ‘em for a dozen balls, myself.

By Carroll

October 15, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this

I’m sure you could use some more balls.

By Charles

October 16, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this

Uh oh, now Carroll/Garfield/Cafaro/Schizo is back. What a moron.

By Stew

October 16, 2005 06:19 PM | Link to this

Forget about Furcal, we need someone to drive in runs out of the five-hole. We need Carlos Lee. I know he is not the greatest defensive player. My mother could play left field. We need a big bopper to protect Druw and Chip. That’s why we never get over the hump in October.

By Get a Clue

October 16, 2005 08:01 PM | Link to this

What do you mean the coaches I mentioned didn’t have the opportunites to win World Series? Last time I checked, there were 30 teams in this thing at the beginning of every year. That is the thing you people fail to acknowledge. Other managers have already failed by the time Bobby and the Braves have checked out of the playoffs. They have had the same 14 opportunities that the Braves have had. They just didn’t make the playoffs. Why do people fail to see this?

By Curveball

October 17, 2005 01:32 AM | Link to this

Get a Clue, in baseball they are called managers…and no other single manager or coach in any sport has had 14 straight opportunities to win it all as Cox has…14 chances, 1 win, 13 loses…14 trips to the dance, but only did the Rumba once!

By Get a Clue

October 17, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this

Tony LaRussa has managed since ‘79 and he has won one World Series. That is 27 opportunities to win a World Series and he has exactly one. Should the Cards fire him?

Dusty Baker has managed 13 years and no World Series wins? Fired, right?

Just because Bobby Cox has made it to the playoffs and his team has not won the World Series is not the measure. The measure should be how many opportunities he has had to win it. The fact that he has made the playoffs 14 years in a row as a manager is merely a tribute to the man.

Read some columns on how the national media feels about Bobby Cox. He will be runaway Manager of the Year. Period. If you don’t like him here, too bad. He’ll be in Atlanta as long as he wants, so get used to it.

By Mike G

October 17, 2005 08:06 PM | Link to this

Do the players hurt as much as we fans do after all these consecutive collapses???? I wonder???

By Carroll

October 17, 2005 08:08 PM | Link to this

Curveball: some “people” just don’t get it. They’d defend and worhsip the man if he fed infant children to his pet boa. It’s just not worth it. But I completely agree with you.

By Mike G

October 17, 2005 08:11 PM | Link to this

Carrol and curveball, There are no guarantees in any sport when you reach the post season. It is obvious that every year, due to the lack of payroll, we are always lacking what we need to advance. Cox can only manage what he has, he cant execute, the players have to do that.

By Mike G

October 17, 2005 08:15 PM | Link to this

Ask the New York Mets and Philadelphia Phillies how hard it is to win a division, or back-to-back divisions, or 3 in a row, or 14 in a row. And the Cox bashing continues??????????? Its obvious you people dont understand baseball.

By Carroll

October 17, 2005 09:12 PM | Link to this

Mike G: there is one guarantee in the postseason…..BC and the Braves will fail. Bet the farm on it.

By Mike G

October 17, 2005 10:46 PM | Link to this

Yes, unfortuantly Carroll, I agree with you, because of our own salary cap we have no continuity with players. But none of our division championships can be taken away cause of that. That is still an amazing accomplishment. The Braves just dont get lucky every year and win a division.

By Marc

October 21, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this

Curveball,

If I lived in Tampa and rooted for the Devil Rays, I guess you could say I loved losers. I and most people on this blog rooted for the Braves when they finished last every year. Apparently, however, in your universe, it’s better to finish last than to finish first and lose in the playoffs. It’s extremely frustrating to continually lose in the playoffs. But anyone that calls a team “losers” that wins the division 14 years in a row is living in a bizaaro dimension.