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Home > Jeff Schultz > Archives > 2009 > January > 31 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USPittsburgh can solidify status as greatest franchise
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
If it seems strange that the most famous football city in America (Green Bay) suddenly is embracing arguably the NFL’s most inglorious franchise (Arizona), let Fuzzy Thurston scream why.
Well, not quite scream. Throat cancer has left the former Green Bay Packers guard whispering through a voice box. But when the subject of the Super Bowl and the potential historical ramifications of a sixth championship by the Pittsburgh Steelers was broached, it was like somebody plugged Thurston into a wall socket and he was back smacking heads in the Ice Bowl.
“Big deal. How many championships they got?” Thurston said over the phone. “We won our first one in 1929. We’ve won more than anybody else. If you want to compare, then compare. Anyone who thinks Pittsburgh is better can go shove it! We’re No. 1!”
He never was known for finesse.
It isn’t easy going against Packers history. But the fact Thurston is pulling for the Arizona Cardinals in today’s Super Bowl — “Let’s just say it would make things better” — illustrates his desire to defuse this potential debate. If the Steelers win, it will be their sixth championship, all in the Super Bowl era (after 1966), more than any other franchise.
Six would still be only half the Packers’ total championships. Nine of Green Bay’s 12 titles came before the NFL-AFL merger, and three came even before a playoff system. After winning the first two Super Bowls, Green Bay reached the playoffs only twice in the next 25 years, before the Brett Favre era.
Win today and Pittsburgh secures its position as the greatest franchise in the modern era. But the greatest franchise of all-time? Objections by Packer legends notwithstanding, the Steelers are in the conversation. In the past 37 years, they have had only seven losing seasons, reached the playoffs 24 times and won five Super Bowls and seven AFC titles.
They should be the blueprint for every franchise.
No team has had more stable ownership (the Rooney family). No team has a better track record for picking coaches (Chuck Noll, Bill Cowher, Mike Tomlin). The Steelers build their roster with players, not stars or clown acts who can wreck a salary cap and blow up a locker room like some bad lab experiment. (See: Dallas, Washington, Oakland.)
There are coaches in this league whose complicated playbooks would give Stephen Hawking a headache. The Steelers? They just knock you down.
Even competitors can’t find anything to dislike about them.
“All of us in the business, whether you were a Steelers fan or not growing up, you always admired them,” said Falcons general manager Thomas Dimitroff, who also worked in New England. “Just look at their teams. They’re tough. They’re ornery. They’re hard-core football players. They’ve had the [Jack] Lamberts of the world. Even those of us who have grown up in this league, whether you were a scout or a coach, deep down you always thought you would’ve loved to be a part of that. You always knew that group had a solid, non-whimsical approach to everything.”
The Packers are the first floor of an NFL films library. It’s the franchise of Lombardi and Starr, Nitschke and Lambeau, Hutson and Taylor.
But just as the Steelers were a sad franchise until the 1970s — seven winning seasons in the first 37 years — the Packers also have had struggles: in the years preceding Vince Lombardi’s arrival, and then long after he left.
Pittsburgh actually has reached the postseason more times (25) than the Packers (24) — even if only because Green Bay’s first three championships were regular season titles (1929-31), before the NFL implemented a playoff system.
The Cardinals aren’t in this argument. They have more playoff wins this year (three) than in the previous 88 years combined (two). They backed into the playoffs with a 9-7 record but upset the Falcons, Carolina and Philadelphia in the postseason.
Thurston is hoping for one more upset, just to end this talk before it spreads like a virus.
His reaction when somebody suggests to him the Packers may drop a notch historically?
“I don’t know,” he said. “Nobody has ever said that to my face, probably because they’re scared.”
Permalink | Comments (28) | Post your comment | Categories: Falcons/NFL
Comments
By tide rising
January 31, 2009 8:07 PM | Link to this
I guess it all comes down to whether or not you are looking at the entirety of when pro football started in the 1920s or the modern era that started with the Super Bowl in 66. The packers win the 1920s and on argument and the Steelers very comfortably win the modern era argument.
Ask any man on the street outside of Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and 90% of them would pick the Steelers as the greatest franchise ever if the argument is just between the Steelers and the Packers. If you included other teams some people would think also of the Cowboys and a small minority some would possibly think of some other franchises like the Dolphins, 49ers, Giants, etc.
Lastly, I say that 90% of fans would pick the Steelers over the Packers because it seems like Pittsburgh has a huge nationwide following unlike any other team except maybe the cowboys. Anywhere you go you meet big time Pittsburgh Steelers fans who’ve never even been to Pittsburgh much less Pennsylvania. While the Packers have an ardent fan base it cannot be said that the Packers having a nationwide following anywhere close to the Steelers or for that matter the Cowboys.
By Sage of Bluesland
January 31, 2009 8:44 PM | Link to this
While other teams have Lamberts, Singletarys, Brooks, Seaus, and Brooks’, we have the precious Hometown Hero, Keith Brooking.
A laughably below-average excuse for a linebacker who is paid like an elite playmaker! Yet the sheep hold him up to the Heavens and salivate when he makes Arthur’s silly little ‘Ring-of-Honor’…
Don’t ever wonder why we’ve been sorry for the vast majority of our existence…Look at the decision-making…
By Ted Striker
January 31, 2009 10:43 PM | Link to this
Can you imagine being in an crowded elevator of Steeler and Packer fans ‘discussing’ this topic? You ain’t makin’ it out of the elevator unscathed, not even if you’re from Switzerland.
I had an uncle who was a Deputy Sheriff and he was once called out to a nursing home during a Packers/Steelers game. Two 88 year old geezers down in the TV room had hold of each other’s oxygen tubes and refused to let go until the game was over.
By dustypenguin
February 1, 2009 2:37 AM | Link to this
“Pittsburgh has a huge nationwide following unlike any other team except maybe the cowboys”
What? Where are you living? Have you ever seen Packer away games where there are more Packer fans than the home team … I have many times.
I am working in Africa right now and even here there is a small group of Packer fans, but I do not see any Steelers or ‘Boys fans ….hmmm
By TheAntiMe
February 1, 2009 5:50 AM | Link to this
“You just go and lay your hands on a Pittsburgh Steelers fan. And I think you’re going to finally understand.” - Charlie Daniels from “In America”
By David C
February 1, 2009 7:57 AM | Link to this
Oh yea..Greatest franchise..4 rings in the 70’s because they were the first NFL team to discover steriods..how many dead Steelers are there from the 70’s? Karma is a bi&&&
By Terrible Truth
February 1, 2009 8:26 AM | Link to this
Chuck Noll laid the blueprint for the Steelers franchise. You mentioned the Steelers before 1970 and you usually ended up with a room full of snickers. Without him, people would still be saying what nice, humble, lovable-losing cheapskates the Rooney’s are. Think Cubs. Like many others, (Shula, Madden etc.) Chuck Noll won, not with ownership, but in spite of it.
By Tom Terrific
February 1, 2009 8:33 AM | Link to this
The Cardinals have the devil in dreadlocks, and the devil wears Steelers.
Cards by a horn and a tail…..and a….pitchfork, oh dont reach for THAT one, Bookman, it’s WAY over your head….
JKLOL
Cards. 31 Steelers 24
By Larry
February 1, 2009 1:09 PM | Link to this
What a dumb blog!
I’m neither a Green Bay or Pittsburgh fan and it just seems ridiculous that we are arguing over who is the greatest NFL Team in history.
Championship Score: Green Bay 12, Pittsburgh 5 or 6. Pretty easy math to me!
This Blog and the writer who started is as dumb as a box of rocks. Schultz, are you also the author of these juvenile opinion polls we see on the AJC?
By smitty
February 1, 2009 1:22 PM | Link to this
* If the Steelers win they will just be catching up to the 6 COWBOY championships and the cowboys will still have the most superbowl appearances. DO YOUR HOMEWORK HOMER!!!*
By Dr. Warren
February 1, 2009 1:28 PM | Link to this
AGREED: Those opinion polls seem to have been written by a 16-year-old intern. Absolutely inane, meant only to fill up space, I suppose.
By Larry
February 1, 2009 1:33 PM | Link to this
Also, for the Super Bowl era, preety easy argument for the 49ers who have been to 5 Super bowls and never lost! Pittsburgh was great with most of the same players; the 49ers went 5-0 with a lot of differenet players and two QB’s, Montana (4) and Youg (1 win).
By Hillbilly Deluxe
February 1, 2009 4:00 PM | Link to this
The Steelers team of the 70’s the best ever? Perhaps. The best franchise of all-time? I think not. They won 4 of their 5 Championships with the same basic team. They’ve been better than average since then but not consistently great. The 40 years before the Noll era (with the same Rooney ownership) they were basically the doormat of the league. Twelve is still twice as many as six.
Watching Fuzzy and Jerry Kramer leading that sweep was a sight to behold for those of us old enough to remember it.
By VICK SUPPORTER 2
February 1, 2009 7:04 PM | Link to this
AMAZING MOBILE QBS
BIG BEN R. IS SHOWING WHAT A MOBILE QB CAN DO ON A BLITZ WHEN THE POCKET COLLAPSES…..
By Hmmmm
February 1, 2009 8:36 PM | Link to this
Yeah that 5 flat 40 really lets him escape that pass rush. Cant wait to see him take off and maybe leave a 360 pound tackle diving.
By Ted Striker
February 1, 2009 9:23 PM | Link to this
@1:09, 1:28, 1:33 — You read columns by someone you describe as ‘dumb as a box or rocks.’ You post multiple comments about topics that are ‘juvenile.’ You say this column is just something to ‘fill up space.’
Do you also whistle at girls you think are ugly to attract their attention?
By VICK SUPPORTER 2
February 1, 2009 10:29 PM | Link to this
“YOUNGEST SUPERBOWL COACH EVER”
CONGRATULATIONS COACH TOMLIN
By Big MIKE
February 2, 2009 1:27 AM | Link to this
You see what happens when we are all given a chance, THE YOUNGEST COACH EVER TO WIN A SUPERBOWL! AMERICAN BY BIRTH, BLACKMAN BY THE GRACE OF GOD! IT TOOK ONE OF THE GREATEST FRANCHISES IN THE NFL TO GIVE A YOUNG BLACMAN A CHANCE, AND LOOK AT THE RESULTS. I ONLY HOPE SAN DIEGO, AND ANY OTHER TEAM THAT GIVES NORV TURNER A JOB, CAN SEE WHAT OTHERS CAN DO, THAT LOOK LIKE MIKE TOMLIN. AND FOR THE RECORD PEOPLE THAT TAMPA BAY SB BELONGED TO TONY DUNGY!
By Meanwhile...how do you not?
February 2, 2009 2:12 AM | Link to this
How do you not throw Larry Fitzgerald the ball for three freakin’ quarters? Don’t tell me he was covered; even when he’s covered, he’s open.
By Webspinner
February 2, 2009 7:28 AM | Link to this
So, should Larry Fitzgerald have been penalized on the last play of the half for running for 15-20 yards out of bounds, and initiating contact with James Harrison while still out of bounds? Whats’ the rule?
By wow
February 2, 2009 10:24 AM | Link to this
I really have to laugh at bs posts like big mike. I do agree that the tampa sb was dungy. he was a great coach. I believe Tomlin is a great coach. However ur post is only and are always only about race. If cardinals defense would have stopped big ben and santonio. Guess what. We would hear about how great larry fitzgerald was (not warner) and how stupid the steelers WHITE defensive coordinator was to let them score passing straight down the middle of the field. I could go on but why
By Evolution Explained
February 2, 2009 11:33 AM | Link to this
The Cards won that game easy as pie, but the Card’s Coach violated the axiom of winning: take the points you’re given. They had the field goal with 16 seconds left in the half. Maybe You hand off and try for the up the middle touchdown, but if you’re stopped, you quickly throw the football into the turf and stop the clock and then you get the three. Half time over. 10 to 10. Cards win. The refs didn’t help. 106 yards of cardinal sins. let them play, you horrid striped losers.
I hate the cards, but I hate bad football even worse. The cards passed on nearly every single down, (43 of 55 plays were passes). that’s crazy football. I hate the cards for cheating and winning that wildcard game against the falcons. But I hate the steelers for the road construction near scranton and wilkes barre that never ends.
By Hillbilly Deluxe
February 2, 2009 12:53 PM | Link to this
Back to the original topic, the Packers won most of their titles when you had to win your division in a 2 division league to make it to the championship game. There was no multi-round playoff. In those days you never had a 9-7 (.563 win percentage) team in the championship game.
By Hurricane in GA
February 2, 2009 12:58 PM | Link to this
Big Mike you need to get over the whole black coach thing. The first time something happens it’s historic. After that it’s time to move on. Successful Black head coaches in the NFL are not an anomaly. After Dungy and Lovie Smith both made it in the same game, that ought to have been the last time it needed to be mentioned.
Did you notice Tampa Bay hired a 32 year old Black man with no COORDINATOR experience to replace Gruden?
I am very happy when Blacks have success but stop acting like every team in the NFL needs to hire a Black HC. That’s bulls@@t!
10 years ago you would have had a better argument. Then it was just Dungy, Dennis Green, and WE weren’t even getting interviews. The Rooney rule got adopted, people started getting interviews, and the rest is history.
Dungy’s victory was historic. Tomlin’s was because of his age not his race. I am happy for Tomlin but the NFL isn’t where the problem with coaching is. Try the NCAA.
By STAFFORDSNOGREENE
February 2, 2009 1:18 PM | Link to this
Well whoopee….That and a quater will get you a phone call. Who cares??
By Hurricane in GA
February 2, 2009 1:22 PM | Link to this
As far as the original topic, I think you do need to specify the era’s involved. I say go ahead and include the entire decade on the 60’s and give GB credit for the 3 non superbowl titles
I’d say since then, Pittsburgh and Dallas are about even. Dallas has more appearances but one less title. Green Bay and Pittsburgh have the two best sets of fans. Green Bay was irrelevant from 1970 until Brett Favre so I can’t put on that level.
Here’s my top 10 from the Superbowl era. 1.Pittsburgh- 2.Dallas 3.Oakland - Until 2003, they were very relevant. 3/5 in SB 4.San Francisco- Pretty much a joke until 1981 and since TO left. 5.Miami- No rings since 73 but consistently good until Marino left. 6.Denver - Great fans, and 6 SB appearances since 1977. 7.Washington - Great fan support and 3 titles. 8.New England - AFC champs in 85, 96, Brady/Belicheck nuff said. 9.Green Bay- Love Brett Farve, but they sucked for 23 years. 10.NY Giants- Bill Parcells, LT, NFC Champs in 2000, stopped perfection.
By Scottbravesfan
February 3, 2009 12:43 AM | Link to this
Steeler fans are obnoxious like Red Sox, Yankee, and Cub fans are in baseball.
By Gus
February 3, 2009 8:58 AM | Link to this
Were the 49’s that great or what it Joe Montana? It was Joe. Were the bulls that great or was it Michael Jordan? It was mike.
But these cards and steelers are great teams. There’s no one individual that great, but the teams are amazingly great.