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Home > Jeff Schultz > Archives > 2008 > October > 25 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBraves have reason to admire Phillies
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Philadelphia — The Philadelphia Phillies hitched their World Series hopes in Game 3 on Saturday night to a 45-year-old pitcher who somehow managed to win 16 games this season.
That’s the difference right now between the Phillies and Braves. Atlanta’s pitching relics wind up on Dr. James Andrews’ reassembly line in Birmingham, submarining seasons and bankrupting HMOs. The Phillies bring in Moyer, who should be retired and possibly mummified by now, and watch as late-career fantasy becomes reality.
This is the third consecutive postseason without the Braves. If that’s something that remains difficult to stomach, you should at least be prepared for something the next few seasons.
Philadelphia: not going anywhere.
It’s the team the Braves used to have, the team they thought they had this past spring, the team they now only project to have again when squinting at a spreadsheet, just right. The Phillies’ have youth. They have a core. They have stars with power and stars with arms and most important, stars whose contractual commitments mean they won’t be changing area codes any time soon.
Jamie Moyer isn’t the biggest reason the Phillies won 92 games and their second straight National League East Division title this season. He is merely symbolic of a franchise that keeps making the right decision at the fork in the road while others, particularly in the division, end up on dirt and rocks, with no directional signs.
“They’ve done a really good job there,” Braves general manager Frank Wren said Saturday. “They play the game aggressively. They’ve developed a club of home-grown players. That’s what we’re trying to do. From our perspective, we feel like we have our next wave of young talent coming, and that will give us long-term stability and success. The Phillies have benefited from the Burrells, the Utleys, the Howards. They’ve groomed players in their system.”
Remember when everything went right? Look at the Phillies. The infield includes Ryan Howard (28), Jimmy Rollins (24) and Chase Utley (29). Howard and Rollins have won the past two MVP awards. Utley? He is only the third second baseman in history to have four straight 100-RBI seasons.
Catcher Carlos Ruiz is in only his third season. He homered in the second inning Saturday to give the Phils a 2-1 lead over Tampa Bay. Rollins singled in his first two at-bats and scored the game’s first run. Moyer struck out Evan Longoria in the first and fourth.
Remember when the Braves could do no wrong?
Wren is scrambling to rebuild a rotation that hasn’t experienced such disaster for two decades. Meanwhile, the new kings of the East started Cole Hamels (24) and Brett Myers (28) in the first two games of this Series. (Moyer threw off the curve.)
The Braves won 14 straight division titles. When streaks grow that long and implausible, it’s easy to dismiss a third-place finish, like the one three years ago, as a hiccup.
But three seasons have provided clarity. The 2006 season wasn’t a hiccup — it was more like the first crack in the ice, when somebody tries to drive the family station wagon across a newly frozen lake.
This is all the Braves needed to know about the new pecking order in the East: Since their run of division titles ended, the Phillies have won 266 regular-season games. The Mets: 274. The Braves: 235.
Your cold slap of reality: In the past three seasons, the Braves are closer to the Florida Marlins (233) than the Phillies or Mets.
Philadelphia fans have had their share of torment. Their baseball franchise is the losingest in the sport’s history, passing 10,000 losses last season. The Phils last won a World Series in 1980. It’s no guarantee they will win this one.
But one thing does seem certain. Next year, they’re the team the Braves will be chasing.
Permalink | Comments (41) | Post your comment | Categories: Braves/MLB
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By Brian
October 26, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this
Jeff- I agree with you about the Phillies, but I would seriously eliminate this season as bad as ‘06,’07. Injuries KILLED this team in ‘08 and I dare any Phillie, Mut, or any team that could compare to the injury pile up we had! The Braves are on the right path and hopefully a Peavy, a HR bat, and another quality starter can make a difference. Francoeur is a scary thought to think about, Hudson’s loss will hurt, and if Moylan, Soriano, and Smoltz can’t bounce back after injuries, a 2nd or 3rd place finish can happen, for sure!
Oh yeah, the Phillies are a dangerous team now and for awhile, I’m afraid!
By BosnianBaller
October 26, 2008 3:38 AM | Link to this
yeah rollins is 30 years old not 24.
By Craig
October 26, 2008 4:02 AM | Link to this
I agree that injuries hurt the Braves tremendously, however what was more painful to watch was the lack of fundamentals. The Braves could never get the bunt down. Never advance or hit behind runners. Outfielders were not positioned properly. Further, the attitude at a loss seemed to be more “well, its a long season. We’ll get ‘em tomorrow.” I often think Bobby has lost his edge, and may be more focused on being a “players manager” than driving the players that mediocrity is simply unacceptable. All that said, I am so ready for spring training!
By richbrave
October 26, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this
JEFF:
That “dirt and rocks” comment after the “fork in the road” analogy wouldn’t have been a shot at the BRAVES management would it.? I mean OFF the field.
I found JOHN’s moves in his latter days to not contain the luster of his early ones. Back then, folks didn’t see him coming.
WREN on the other hand has made a couple of nice moves getting CASEY KOTCHMAN at the eleventh hour for TEIXEIRA and acquiring JAIR JUIRJENS and GORKYS HERNANDEZ for EDGAR RENTERIA.
He now faces the task of breaking the string of bad moves such as TEIXEIRA for farm prospects in this off-season. If he bets the brightest and best of the farm for one great arm, he fails the task at hand in my judgement. Heres hoping he keeps his head and deals wisely - with one ear tied to LIBERTY’s purse-strings of course.
By stamper
October 26, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
Jeff, Sorry buddy. I think you’re giving way too much credit to the phillies. they haven’t built a legacy, my friend. they may win the world series, yes… but they remind me of the White Sox team of a few years ago…They’ve gotten all the right breaks, not because they have a superior team. And sometimes, that’s all it takes - a little luck.
Hamels and Myers the new kings of the East? Hamels is great, I agree. But Myers? You’re kidding, right? Really? No…. Really?10-13 with an era of 4.55, not to mention, 2-1 with a 4.74 era this post season isn’t exactly ‘ace’ material… especially when he could just as easily be 1-2. Delusional.
If Hamels are Moyer are the Kings, does that make Jamie Moyer, perhaps, Gandalf? And I don’t know, Blanton could be Samwise Gamgee? Why stop there?… we could make Chase Utley ‘Frodo’. just sayin’. Ya feel me?
i’ve got an idea for ya, just wait till Myers’ next performance before you give him an honorary title… same applies to the rest of the nerd herd over there in Philly.
Absolutely rubbish column.
By LivininAL
October 26, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Even with acquired starting pitcher(s),the Braves will lack a game plan that includes and executes timely bunting, moving a runner, and stolen bases. Braves tried to play the same old formula with pitching and slugging again this year, but had neither. The Phillies and Rays offer a complete lineup with fundametnals executed. The string of division titles and lack of advancement in playoffs simply show the lack of ability to do what has to be done in a tight ball game. And who can forget the the one run losing record compiled this year. Let’s hope for some new pitching and a new outlook and find ways to win instead of lose. Go Braves!
By stamper
October 26, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
obviously, my criticism would have been more effective had i taken care of my two errors… whatever.
(clearly i meant… ’ if Hamels and Myers are the kings…’)
By greg
October 26, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
The time of the world series starting is a joke. The first two games ending after midnight and last night at 2:00AM . Baseball allowing this to happen is pathetic. I
By Ray
October 26, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
Why don’t the braves start by bringing in Don Baylor again, he got Andrew Jones to hit 300. He would most surely do the same with Frenchie and the rest. Instead of professing the “hacking away” method that came with Pendleton. Once these youngsters start trying to hit hard at every ball, slump and sand faces arrive… many games are lost that way. Braves have a good young group in McCann, Francour, Escobar.
By cooper
October 26, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
The Phillies also have a manager who holds players accountable and is a better strategist than what the Braves have in Bobby today.
They send struggling players to the minors for more than 3 days and they don’t wheel out the same lineup up week after week when clearly it is not working.
They have players who can bunt, hit n run, and have master baseball fundamentals.
They don’t sign cast offs to fill holes when key guys down.
Bobby’s star is fading and Wren’s decision to bring him and the entire coaching staff back was a head scratcher.
No team has needed an infusion of new ideas and leadership than the 08 Braves and yet they are committing to a mgt & coaching staff that is not performing.
Injuries are only half the story for 2008 and more often than not are used as an excuse.
100s of fans said signing Glavine was a biblical mistake, relying on Hampton would hurt and Smoltz at 40+ was an injury waiting to happen.
These were regular fans not analysts or blind homers who saw a flawed team and mgt approach back in January.
The Braves way is needs a major overhaul with new leadership and likely 80% new coach staff.
Until that happens you could have Babe Ruth, Willie Mays and Cy Young’s clones on the team and still find a way to lose.
Braves fans should go into Iowa mode (“show me”) until Wren does something that does not look like he is reading JS crib notes.
By Bulldog Drummond
October 26, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Yes…the Braves had some devastating injuries this year and the record reflected it.
But look at the line-up they fielded after signing Tex last season—compare it to Tampa Bay or Philly right now. Vastly superior. They wound up with a roughly 500 record after signing him.
The problem: Bobby Cox. He needs to be put out to pasture to roam with his horses in Adairsville. Let him lead a quiet, dignified, harmless life in his twilight years.
Not manage a team so many of us live and die with.
With the kind of media we have in Atlanta—soft as a baby’s bottom—he’ll never have to worry about any kind of external pressure to step down.
He’s the Braves manager for life. Oh joy.
By scottbravesfan
October 26, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
The Phillies won’t even win the division next year and I still got the Rays winning the World Series.
By stew
October 26, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
ANDRUW! ANDRUW! ANDRUW! WAKE UP EVERYBODY ANDRUW IS THE ANSWER. ANDRUW WANTS A TRADE AND WANTS TO COME BACK TO ATL WHY NOT? DO WE HAVE SOMETHING BETTER THAN ANDRUW IN CF?
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
October 26, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
two words for the Braves season in 2009:
REBUILDING YEAR.
By bobby
October 26, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
Why in the name of Abner Doubleday do we a .156 hitting 250# center fielder? We are supposed to be playing baseball here, not football.
By bobby
October 26, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
Why in the name of Abner Doubleday do we need a .156 hitting 250# center fielder? We are supposed to be playing baseball here, not football.
By stew
October 26, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
BECAUSE HE’S THE BEST DEFENSIVE CENTERFIELDER EVER AND HIS BAT WILL COME AROUND. HE CAN BE HAD FOR NOTHING.
By bobby
October 26, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
Was a great centerfielder but an elephant can’t run very fast. How many years are you going to wait for his bat to come around? I’m sure the Dodgers would like to give him to anyone for nothing.
By @#%!
October 27, 2008 3:47 AM | Link to this
Andruw is still owed another $18 mil next year, and I doubt the Braves will pull the trigger on that unless LA pays a big chunk of it. But two seasons of mediocre stats are riding Andruw’s back, and there’s no telling what you’ll get out of him next year. I think he’s lost his passion for the game.
By philliesfan
October 27, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
All you Braves fans need to respect this article. The Phillies do have a foundation to contend for at least the next 4 years and the Braves title runs are over. When was the last time they won the division or at least finished 2nd?? Its been 2 years and counting. And don’t give me the injury talk because we have had them too. Just get out of denial and admit that you guys are done for the next couple of years!! Also, stop crying about the Refs in the Falcons game yesterday too because you guys had more than enough chances in the first half to capitalize on the bye week rust from the Eagles! Get a LEGIT Punt Returner and you won’t even be in that situation!!
GO PHILLIES AND EAGLES!!!!!
By Corey
October 27, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
I hate to agree, but… The only positions that we have the Phillies beat is C & 3B. Think about it… Kotchman or Howard, Johnson or Utley, Escobar or Rollins, an OF where Francoeur is your best or Burrell, Victorino & Werth, a rotation fronted by Hamels or one fronted by Jurrjens with no Hudson, and a bullpen w/ Lidge or one with a bunch of guys on the DL.
I know the Braves are planning to add 2 starters and an OF. But, we need way more than that to match up. And, until I looked at this Philly team, I didn’t realize how much we did need.
By BRAVEFANINPA
October 27, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Just to let you all in on a secret about the sillies! They had better win because they are going to have some money issues next year-
Up for arbitration: Hammels,Howard,Werth,Victorino,Dobbs
Free Agents: Burrell, Moyer
I would look for Hammels to demand 15Mil plus-Howard 15-20 mil and Werth and Victorino 5-8 mil. Sillies are not going to spend that kinda of money. Also Philliesfan Falcons were also coming off a bye week- the call was blew just like the all the phillie fans complaining about the call from Saturday night-Last night J-roll was out and called safe-if that was the other way around all the Philly fans would have been screaming-I just hope they don’t blow this lead now(yeah I kinda of do)when a Eagles fan makes a comment they got what they deserved meaning the Falcons-And don’t talk to me about Punt returner what caused you games last year?
By BRAVEFANINPA
October 27, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
And one more point- These same Fans were calling for Charlie’s Job 2 years ago! My oh my how we quickly forget-Uncle Charlie was a name you dare not mention 2 years ago-then they signed better support for him-EX-Braves coach- Jimmy Williams to be the bench coach-We all know who is making the calls-
By BRAVEFANINPA
October 27, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
The bottom line is the Phillies stayed fairly Healthy this year-yeah Rollins went down a couple of games but Utley, Burrell and Howard still picked up the slack-Take out thier 1,2 and 3 pitchers and see where they would have been this year- Don’t compare Myers to anyone-He is a wife beater-I pray everytime he takes the mound to get beat! They have done what they needed to do to be where they are at they have played well as a team, but the Braves were broken by injurys this year no ifs,ands,or buts about it!
By Marc
October 27, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
I think it’s interesting that a Phillies “fan”, on the verge of winning the World Series, would feel the need to comment on a blog in Atlanta about how Braves fans should just give up. This from a team that has made the playoffs twice in the last fifteen years, both times largely because the Mets collapsed. The Phillies are good and have a nice foundation and I give them credit, but they won 89 games last year and 92 this year—that’s hardly the 1998 Yankees or, for that matter, the 1991-2005 Braves. After Hamels, the rotation is utterly mediocre despite the World Series. And, why should Braves fan “get out of denial?” What difference is it to you—are you so insecure about the Phillies that you need to tell fans of other teams how to root? If the Phillies lose tonight, panic will set in there.
As for the Eagles, they are in last place.
By phillyfan
October 27, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Marc,
First of all STOP HATING. Who gives a darn if we won 89 games last year and 92 this year, IT WAS MORE WINS THAN THE BRAVES. You guys are a far cry from the 1991-2005 braves. Please. Being a Philly fan, we have been catching flack from the national media for YEARS. The booing Santa Claus thing they keep talking about was in the 70’s! We are on the verge of a title and now you are talking about the ‘91-05 braves because you guys have fallen off. I never (nor never will) tell any fan how to boo but give credit where credit is due. The Bottom line is we are winning NOW and trust me when the shoe was on the other foot (91-05) we took it and kep it moving. Since you are so stuck on previous years, it was from 91-92, then 94-05 because if you remember, in 1993 we took yall out. Granted it was just one season, but we still beat you guys nonetheless.
By phillyfan
October 27, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
Marc,
First of all STOP HATING. Who gives a darn if we won 89 games last year and 92 this year, IT WAS MORE WINS THAN THE BRAVES. You guys are a far cry from the 1991-2005 braves. Please. Being a Philly fan, we have been catching flack from the national media for YEARS. The booing Santa Claus thing they keep talking about was in the 70’s! We are on the verge of a title and now you are talking about the ‘91-05 braves because you guys have fallen off. I never (nor never will) tell any fan how to boo but give credit where credit is due. The Bottom line is we are winning NOW and trust me when the shoe was on the other foot (91-05) we took it and kep it moving. Since you are so stuck on previous years, it was from 91-92, then 94-05 because if you remember, in 1993 we took yall out. Granted it was just one season, but we still beat you guys nonetheless.
By Phillyfan
October 27, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Also “marc”
We are in last place in the best division in football AND have the same record as the Falcons…. And we never panic, just stick by our squads….
By phillyfan
October 27, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Please, every team has injuries. We had injuries AND bad play from our players throughout the season so don’t give me that “BRAVEFANINPA”. I agree with you 100%, Brett Myers is a wife beater and I don’t condone his actions (nor the way the Phillies PR handled it when it happened) neither but he is better than the 50 surgery Mike Hampton. He’s a shell of his former self and hasn’t been fully healthy since the braves got him. We had Kyle Kendrick and Adam eaton to begin the season and we made moves and replaced them because they were terrible, not hurt. You guys could have done the same thing. Its called adversity whether it be injuries or bad play it happens to EVERY TEAM, not just the braves. You guys had injuries from 91-05 but plugged in the pieces and made it happen.
By fieldofdreams
October 27, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
The Phillies are a very good but not great team. If we spend all the extra dough wisely, and Smolt-Zeus resurrects himself as either a reliever or starter, the Braves could win the East. Like the game itself, our success will start on the mound.
By fieldofdreams
October 27, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
The Phillies are a very good but not great team. If we spend all the extra dough wisely, and Smolt-Zeus resurrects himself as either a reliever or starter, the Braves could win the East. Like the game itself, our success will start on the mound.
By fieldofdreams
October 27, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
The Phillies are a very good but not great team. If we spend all the extra dough wisely, and Smolt-Zeus resurrects himself as either a reliever or starter, the Braves could win the East. Like the game itself, our success will start on the mound.
By fieldofdreams
October 27, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
The Phillies are a very good but not great team. If we spend all the extra dough wisely, and Smolt-Zeus resurrects himself as either a reliever or starter, the Braves could win the East. Like the game itself, our success will start on the mound.
By phillyfan
October 27, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Hey “bravefaninpa”,
No I don’t forget about Uncle Charlie’s decision making and in game strategies. He still has his issues, but the bottom lin is he’s still playing and the braves are not. So what we are got arbitration coming up, what team doesn’t??? Isn’t money the main reason why Texiera got traded?? Aside from Burrell (who made $14 mil this past year), Jim Thome’s, Adam Eaton’s AND Bobby Abreu’s contracts comes off the books this year so we’ll be ok. We were still paying portions of those contracts so we’ll be straight. You guys don’t need to talk about money.
By steve
October 27, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
We need a whole new coaching staff to go along with a power hitting leftfielder and one more good pitcher. Do not trade away any of our young future stars as that is part of the reason we are in bad shape today.(Adam Wainwright, Jermaine Dye to name just 2 )
By varoadrunner
October 27, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
Maybe Jeff should move to Philadelphia and cover the phillies. He sems to love them. Of course, any true Braves fan would point out that we have not been =in the post season in three years, but I still remember celebrating 14 years in a row. How about our farm system that gives Braves fans something to look forward to and until they get here, I’m at least glad an East team is playing in the World Series. Now if Mr Wren earns his keep, this could be a great off-season and if he doesn’t make the necessary moves, Wren should leave/step down/shoot himself, etc….. Wren has the money and prospects to build quickly. Anything short of a contender would be unacceptable or….maybe Mr Shultz would be happier if the Phillies remain the team to beat in the East. Rooting for a Wren failure, Jeff?
By I agree with greg
October 27, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this
Uhhh…Yay for Philly, but I would much rather have the young, talented rotation that Tampa Bay has. Who do you think is gonna have more of a consistent impact the next 10 years? Not gonna be a bunch a home-swingers and one solid pitcher.
I feel like the young Rays staff and competent but not overwhelming offense reminds me of another team from the past…Oh, well guess I’ll think of it later.
By ray pettit
October 28, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
Headline should say,”Be ENVIOUS of Phillies.” There’s no ROMANCE involved here!!!
By Bo
October 28, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this
Copper Agree with you 100%. Bobby Cox needs to go asp!! Andrew Jones coming back to Braves? I wouldn’t give a penny to watch that @#%. Wren needs to clean house, fire BC and TP and pitching Coach. I can’t stand to look at BC, he makes me sick.
By Stephanie
October 29, 2008 7:11 AM | Link to this
The braves hold on to coaches like Terry Pendleton, sign old players like Tom Glavine and trade away players like Renteria. What do you expect. The team has a love afair with old players, Pendleton, Franco, Glavine, Smoltz when other teams are going with young smooth pure talent. Then we hear, we want them back. For what? Spend wisely is not in the braves notebook thats for sure.
By R1U
October 29, 2008 7:33 AM | Link to this
So easy to ride the front runner—-when the Phillies do it 12 more times, I’ll take you seriously