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DEL.ICIO.USTake 10: 100-0 Texas basketball blowout brings a lot of fire from Metro Atlanta coaches
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
We’re living in a new age. Wilt Chamberlain scores 100 points in a basketball game, and his accomplishment echoes for all eternity. A girls basketball team in Texas wins a game 100-0, and the result will live in infamy. There is an obsession — good or bad — when dealing with the century mark in basketball. This latest result, however, evoked some strong feelings nationally.
There are several questions that arise when something like the Covenant Christian blowout happens. We at Take Ten decided to go to the experts, your local basketball coaches, and ask them directly.
Here are 10 burning questions about the 100-0 basketball game:
10. What would you do in a similar situation?
Parkview coach Mike McCoy — “I’m not going to tell our players not to score. But we are going to work on our defense and things of that nature. We try to get into a situation where we can run some stuff, specific stuff. We’re not going to just run up and down the floor and score at will. We still have to use it as an opportunity to improve as a team, while being respectful of the game.”
9. Were coaches you talked to shocked by the national headlines?
Cherokee coach Matt Cates — “Well, it’s nothing we’re ever going to have to worry about around here. We’re never going to blow anyone out. But routs are going to happen. It was pretty extreme. I thought it was a misprint when I first saw it.”
8. What’s the most difficult part of handling a game like that?
Marietta coach Ken Sprague — “It’s tough. Do you look at your players and say, ‘If you’re open don’t make the shot?’ Or do you stall the rest of the game, which is almost a slap in the face of the other team, saying we’re not going to try. I mean you still have to play your game. You don’t have to pressure the team. You can drop back into a soft zone, but if you’re telling your kids, ‘Don’t play hard,’ then you’re giving your kids the wrong message. That’s going to have an effect another game.”
7. Were you shocked that the Covenant Christian coach was fired?
Fayette County coach John Strickland — “Some people get fired when they don’t win, so it’s weird to see someone get fired when you do win. I know that’s a different scenario and circumstance behind it, but I think you have to go back to the tape. What was going on in that game? What were they doing in the second half? I don’t think sportsmanship is decided by the score. It’s more than just a score.”
6. Have you ever dealt with this type of reaction before?
Wesleyan coach Jan Azar [to the AJC’s Todd Holcomb] — “Our starters are barely playing two quarters. It’s hard when you teach kids that the way to be successful is playing hard for an entire game, then you say. ‘Wait, don’t do that anymore.’ I don’t want to judge [Covenant] because our team has been judged a lot.”
5. Do you think there would be this type of reaction if it was a boys basketball game?
Sprague — “Maybe, but here’s my thinking. If it was 98-2, then it wouldn’t haven’t gotten to be such a big story. Because that big, round 100 is out there, and the zero number, it makes it look horrible. But say the team beat them 100-10. Does that make it any better? Did the other team get shots off? I didn’t look at a boxscore or anything like that, but I’m assuming the other team took plenty of shots.”
4. Could this ever happen in Georgia?
Cates — “It could, but we have a mercy rule in Georgia. The rule takes some time off the clock if you’re up so many going into the third, going into the fourth. With our mercy rule in this state, I would think it would be hard to go as high as that margin. I would think Texas would look at changing their own rules or adding that in theirs.”
3. Can you defend a team or coach pressing in the second half of a game like that?
McCoy — “Bobby Knight once said if you can beat a team by pressing, you can probably beat them anyway. So just play it straight up. That’s basically what we try to do.”
2. Does either team benefit from games like this?
Sprague — “I say to my players every possession is important. And then you get into a game where we say, ‘Look, you can’t play hard. We don’t want you to try and score. Run our offense, but don’t try to score.’ That’s just not the right thing to do. My thing is just don’t put that team on your schedule.”
1. Should the coach have been fired?
Strickland — “It’s tough. I think you have to go back to the tape and look at what really happened. That’s fair. I don’t know what was going on with the apology. Apparently, the [Covenant] coach took a hard line with his point of view. I don’t know if I would be in that type of position. I can’t be a position to tell a kid not to make a layup and not play defense. But 100-0, that’s tough. That’s the first time I’ve heard of someone getting fired for that, so that’s a new thing for us. It’s new for the basketball world.”
Go on. Take Ten. What are the best ways to prevent an embarrassing blowout? Does it hurt the spirit of the game to slow down? Would you fire a coach for beating an opponent 100-0, regardless of the circumstances? Here’s your chance to voice your opinion. Give us some feedback.
Permalink | Comments (18) | Post your comment | Categories: Take Ten
Comments
By azcat225
January 29, 2009 8:52 AM | Link to this
Glenn, you, like hundreds of others, just don’t seem to get it. “Coach” Grimes, and I use that term reluctantly in his case, was fired for insubordination. He went public, very public, with his disagreement with the school and its headmaster over the school’s reaction to the game. In a comparable situation in our own workplaces, we would get fired 99 times out of 100, too. Grimes basically left the school no choice, given the hyper-publicity this situation has received.
He was NOT fired for the score, he was NOT fired for being “too good”, he was NOT fired for having his team too well prepared.
I find it interesting, and a bit revealing, that some of these coaches (and others) keep talking about not wanting to tell their kids to stop trying. All well and good, I totally agree. But I will never accept a full court press in the second half of a game like this, or continuing to hoist up threes, as anything over than running up the score and attempting to humiliate your opponent. If the answer you posted to your question number 3 is the best this group of coaches could come up with between them, shame on them.
Probably one of the most shocking, and disheartening, aspects of all this is the reaction of quite a few people that the losing team shouldn’t have even been on the floor. That those girls had no business being there. What happened to the love of the game? The pure thrill of competing? Is that all that matters now—-winning, winning, winning?
The real winners, and only ones it seems, in this whole sad affair are the 8 girls on the team that lost the game. And sportsmanship and winning with some class and dignity is on life support with dim chances for recovery.
By Hboggs
January 29, 2009 9:59 AM | Link to this
In the 1961-1962 basketball season, the Quitman HS, or possibly Brooks County HS (they merged at some point) girls basketball team beat Valdosta HS either 100-0 or 100-2. The game was at the “old” Quitman HS gym and I was there and I saw it. That was when girls play 3-on-3 half court. George Eanes was the coach of the team. There was no fuss raised about the game. Everybody but the watergirl played during the game.
By Doug
January 29, 2009 10:03 AM | Link to this
Same old Politically Correct junk. What are you going to tell the kids to lay down.
Doug.
By honestly Abe
January 29, 2009 10:06 AM | Link to this
You are stretching it calling the girls that took that fat “L” winners. For them to not score AT ALL, means they quit in that game. They couldn’t get a foul called & a free throw?
There’s more to this story than the score. I’ve been on both ends of bad losses and I agree with those coaches. It is my team’s job to score and to defend.
It is YOUR teams job to stop us and try to score. So if I get up by 50 at the half I run in my reserves. there RESERVES come in and hang 50 on you…. that’s your bad. Those reserves don’t often get the chance to log minutes like that and it does them good to get some game-time experience.
The truth is that the winners did there job and the losers quit.
By RW
January 29, 2009 10:11 AM | Link to this
I tis interesting to read the coaches comments. 20 years ago this would have been considered, by most coaches, as unacceptable and they would have backed off. For some reason, in our amped culture of performance, we can’t distinguish between achievement and dignity. The idea that backing off in a game that is 59-0 would in some way affect your team’s performance in a future game is laughable.
But as azcatt already pointed out, the coach was not fired for running up the score, he was fired for insubordination
By Buzz
January 29, 2009 10:40 AM | Link to this
According to Coach Grimes account of the game not a parent of other team!!! He says they didn’t press after the first 3 minutes of the game, they played a 2-3 zone and they only made 4 3pointers for the game. The winning team also had only 8 players. This team that lost was made up of girls who have never hardly played basketball before and a decent middle school team would of beaten them pretty badly. He shouldn’t of had to apoligize, his girls were just sooooo superior to the other team and the reported accounts of pressing and shooting 3’s are incorrect. Read Coach Grimes accounts of the game and then tell me if you would of apoligized!!!! I wouldn’t of. This was also a so called conference game, These girls haven’t won in 4 years and haven’t scored in double digits all year!!! An apology for being good shouldn’t of been asked of him.
By Greg
January 29, 2009 10:50 AM | Link to this
I didn’t see the game; few who comment did. Grimes claims that he pulled pressure once his team was up by 25, but Dallas Academy’s coach claims Grimes put “alternate pressure” back on afterwards and that his own team got off only about seven shots total. This isn’t about an “on/off switch,” where you either play with integrity and crush weaker opposition or stop trying and degrade your own standards of play. Every coach knows you can play your bench, spread your zone defense, and practice passing for the layup to sharpen skills when the outcome is assured.
The background: Dallas Academy hadn’t won a game in four seasons. Grimes took Covenant from 2-9 to state contender in the same time. A coach has to be hyper-competitive and driven to accomplish that turnaround. Grimes, though, coached for a Christian school that holds itself to a different standard than win-at-all-costs.
“Azcat225” is right: Grimes wasn’t fired because of the game itself but because he insisted that his perspective was right when his school said otherwise. He’ll find a different school that agrees with him, and he’ll do fine. I feel sorry, though, that his heart and his head have been so shaped by competitiveness that he’s lost the point of using sports to teach kids about life. He and his players will lose so much because of that.
In this particular game, his players and fans may even have wanted, in the heat of the game, to blow out the opponent. That’s a powerful influence on in-play decisions. (Ask those same players afterwards if they feel good about the effects on the other kids their same age.) Grimes’ job, though, included not only coaching to win but keeping his perspective. He clearly lost that, no matter what the scoreboard said.
By Buzz
January 29, 2009 11:31 AM | Link to this
Greg are you serious!!! The girls they played had no RIGHT to be playing H.S. basketball, they can’t dribble, shoot, pass or defend! It was a lay up drill for the winning team. If you look at the break down of scores per quarter, they only scored 12 points in the 4th quarter. Look up the interview that abc did with these girls, yea it’s great they are playing but when you are this bad don’t blame the other team. Other schools have beaten them by 60 and 70 points!!! Would the sportsmanship been better if the score was 80 to 10??? This was just 2 very differently skilled teams. The coach who allowed another team to put up 100 should be fired, teach the girls at least to defend!!!
By Julius
January 29, 2009 11:36 AM | Link to this
Unfortunately Coach Grimes didn’t tow the party line. He was fired because he was honest while his school was being politically correct. He told the truth. It is one thing to run up the score but the other school couldn’t score a point — not even a foul shot. It was not his fault or his players fault that they were scheduled to play a much weaker opponent. If Coach Grimes had told his players to stop playing competitively that could have been construed as throwing the game. So now the players who won the game lose because they lost their coach. Is that fair? For those bleeding hearts, institute a mercy rule otherwise stop complaining. Hopefully, the coach will find a job at a more supportive school.
By debbie
January 29, 2009 2:24 PM | Link to this
I think firing the coach was ridiculous — and I am a woman - I am a christian (since this was a christian school I want to make that comment) -I do not watch sports — my husband said they had to play out the allotted time so what was supposed to happen?? As stated above— institute a mercy rule — should a man lose his job over this? That shows much poorer sportsmanship than the coach showed in doing what he had to do — maby the politically correct people who fired him should lose their jobs. Were they unable to find another way to help their girls learn a life lesson. I don’t think they were a good example when they fired the coach.
By Craig
January 29, 2009 2:30 PM | Link to this
After reading the actual account of coach Grimes and several of the players and then reading the “conventional wisdom” of blogosphere brilliance, I come down on the side of coach Grimes. It seems to me that getting fired for taking a stand about not apologizing for playing with honor and dignity versus a school official who wanted to forfeit the game to be “Christian” is a ridiculous position to be in. To coach your players to play down at the level of a team who hasn’t posted double digits all season does nothing for integrity of the game at all, nor does it help the losing team feel better about themselves. Coach Grimes is to be commended for building a program with 8 girls that can post 100 points in any 4 quarter period, let alone in a single game.
If the players involved left the court feeling guilty that they scored 100 points, or none at all, that does nothing for the game, the players or for those in attendance.
The losing team should have fired their coach for allowing them to take the floor if they cannot score a single point in a game. How does the losing school feel about taking the coach away from the winning team?
Best wishes to Coach Grimes for a program of excellence, honor and integrity. Winning is for winners not for whiners.
By azcat225
January 29, 2009 3:06 PM | Link to this
Thanks Doug, Buzz and Craig for making my points for me, but special kudos to abe for his post.
Craig, you and I will have to differ on our definitions of honor and integrity.
I’ve asked this question on other blogs about this matter: When is enough enough? No one has answered. Obviously for Coach Grimes, 100 is enough. For others, including myself, that number (and more importantly, how you get there) is different.
By Titus Andronicus
January 29, 2009 10:05 PM | Link to this
The mention of a Valdosta-Brooks game from the early 1960s has me intrigued.
Brooks was superb in that era, but Valdosta was pretty good, too. I don’t see them, Lowndes County, or Hahira losing by that kind of score in that era. If it did happen, are we positive it wasn’t against Georgia Christian?
Berrien beat Charlton County 113-6 in the old rover days and was only slightly apologetic. None of the area papers were outraged, but I think they were more in awe of the situation. I believe they also felt sure that BHS wasn’t trying to humiliate Charlton, it was just the talent levels of both teams. Looking back, though, that 43 point 4th quarter does looks ludicrous now.
Everyone keeps harping back on the real reason the coach was fired. That’s very true. But I don’t think the column’s really about that as much as it is about the ridiculousness of the score.
I agree with the coaches that you can’t tell your players not to score. I do think stalling is a bigger insult because it comes across as a defensive measure. Instead of trying to hold your own score down, it looks like you don’t want the other team to score.
There are two cardinals sins of coaching in blowout games in my eyes. A - Not substituting. It doesn’t bother me if you mix and match starters and have them in and out all game, but do substitute. I saw a 12+-deep Randolph-Clay girls’ team play six total in a blowout. I didn’t even have to check a scorebook. It was that obvious. Or at the very least, if you don’t plan on subbing, make your players take off their warm-ups so it’s harder for me to tell the difference. B - Pressing. The reason why they have eight points in the 4th quarter is because they can’t get the ball up the floor. Give the opposition some dignity and a chance to shoot. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 2-3 zone with a game well in hand.
By Joe
January 29, 2009 10:09 PM | Link to this
I’m glad to see some people posting here what i have not seen in any media outlets, that Grimes’ team did not continue to hoist 3’s at will, that they did not play a full court press late in the game, and that they only had 8 girls on their team (hence could only sub in 3 at the most). If you want to criticize Grimes for the number 100, or for publicly disagreeing with his admin, then fine. But don’t crucify the man for things he hasn’t done and for which the media is too careless to fact-check beyond the testimony of one parent who was there.
On the issues of criticism: (1) if 100 is too much, then what number is enough? Hard to hold a guy responsible for an unspoken unwritten standard; (2) as to publicly disagreeing with his admin, it is best to read his comments IN THEIR FULL CONTEXT at flightbasketball.c o m. The media has been cherry-picking the “I’m not sorry” comment completely apart from its context.
I appreciate the comments from the basketball coaches above. Sounds like their moral outrage is tempered by the reality of the sport they live in rather than being fanned into flames by a frenzied and sensationalist news corps.
By Fitzgerald
January 29, 2009 10:36 PM | Link to this
I live in the Dallas area and this story has dominated the sports much too long. There is a 2-A girls team west of Ft. Worth that has won games by scores of 103-25, 103-13, 102-8, and 110-12. Of course, nothing has been said about these scores or the way the games were won. Just one team being much better than the other teams they play. As someone has already said, the fact that the score was 100-0 made it terrible.
By IceDave
February 3, 2009 9:38 PM | Link to this
You can just call him Micah. He’s not a coach any longer.
Hopefully he can find another school where he can fulfill his dreams of being the high school girls’ version of Vince Lombardi.
Go get ‘em, killer!
By rr
February 6, 2009 12:39 AM | Link to this
It was called “sportsmanship” at one time. Coaches took pride in instilling it in their kids. This is high school for goodness sakes. After reading the comments of the coaches above, I will never believe one of those clowns again when they talk about “building character” and “teaching life’s lessons”. Clearly, they could care less.
By Jusafan
February 10, 2009 2:20 PM | Link to this
All I know is, we are waitin’ on coverage of high school BB and this article has been on line for TWO WEEKS !! There is one week left in the regular season.Can we get One decent article.