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DEL.ICIO.USTake 10: Things we’d change about the state tournament
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
As we move through the second round of the state tournament, all seems right in the basketball world. But sitting in our little Take Ten paradise, we couldn’t help but try to bring you down from your postseason high. So here we are with our top 10 things we would change about Georgia high school basketball if we were named the grand ruler. And we’re fully expecting that day to one day come.
10. Get rid of “intentional” fouls There’s no reason for “intentional” fouls to be against the rules. It’s not like players don’t do it anyway at certain times. Let’s take it off the rule books. If the foul is too violent, go ahead and punish it. But allowing officials to read minds and determine intent doesn’t sit too well with us.
9. Dump the possession arrow No more jump balls going to whatever team the arrow points to. If somebody can make a good play and tie his opponent up, he should get a shot at the basketball if he can outfight him for it. Have a jump ball right there where they stand. Whoever wants it more gets it.
8. Give officials monitors to use At least in the finals, if not sooner, officials should have the ability to check with a courtside monitor to confirm how much time should be on the clock … or if a player got the shot off before the buzzer and if a shot is a 2- or a 3-pointer. Just like in college and the NBA.
7. Put your opponent in the bonus Instead of forcing trailing teams to commit several late fouls to get their opponent up to seven fouls and into a bonus free-throw situation, a coach should be able to go to the officials at any time and put his or her opponent into the bonus immediately. It might save time and quicken the inevitable.
6. Eliminate the double bonus While you’re messing with the bonus, let’s get rid of the double as well. It would make it tougher to hold onto late leads and put an added emphasis on free-throw shooting. If you can’t make that first free throw, you don’t get a second one when you’re trying to stay out in front of your opponent. It would also make “Hack-a-Shaq” a more viable option.
5. All-class tourney Even if it were just an exhibition, they should re-seed 12 or so of the best teams after the regular state tournaments and give fans a chance to see how their team stacks up against the rest of the state. Maybe we could have our own “Hoosiers” story.
4. No home games in state tournament Or at least none after the first round. Putting both of the first two rounds at home creates a pretty significant disadvantage for some visitors and makes it very difficult for fans to follow. They should go to neutral sites by the second round at the latest.
3. Call charging correctly This isn’t a criticism of officials so much as it is a criticism toward basketball officiating on all levels. A defender should not have to fall on his back to draw a charge call. The defender should be able to maintain defensive position — on his feet — and still take a charge. Falling down should not be considered good defense.
2. Form committee to seed state tournament Each region champion and region tournament champ would get an automatic bid. The committee would then choose the rest of the 32-team field and seed them out. A good region could get five, six, seven or whatever number of teams, while a weak one might only get one. This would make the state tournament field deeper while making for better first-round matchups.
1. Shot clock We’ve got to get a shot clock. It’s maddening to see a leading team start to milk the clock down with three minutes left. This would be a top priority for our administration. Increase the pace of the game, force teams to run through their offense quickly and make them play the entire game, instead of running out the clock in the end.
Go on. Take Ten. Would these rules changes help the game? What would you change, if you had the chance? Put your grand ruler hat on and let us know.
Permalink | Comments (23) | Post your comment | Categories: State Semifinals, Take Ten
Comments
By Devil Lover
February 26, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this
Norcross should not have to play a #9th rank team in the 1st round. I don’t even like the regional concept. After you have played 25 games everyone knows who are the best teams.
Lets make sure the best 16 teams end up playing each other for the state.
By foxdawg
February 26, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this
The hosting by home teams is a joke and terrible. Itdoesn’t even feel like you are in the tournament. It’ just another game kinda like a reguar season game. There is a feel of a tournament when everybody travels to a neutral site with more than one game in a night.
Also they need to reinstate the old champions tournament where all the classification champions came together and played to determine the all-classification champion.I don’t look for any of this to happen….the GHSA in run by idiots and it’s all about the money.
By afan
February 27, 2008 3:08 AM | Link to this
I have to agree with #4 No home games in state tournament or unless its the 1st round, because it is not fair to have a team travel 5-6 hrs on a tuesday or any day of the week unless its the weekend, even though my team just lost i think the 2nd rd sound be at a neutral site. just my opinion
By Silver Salmon
February 27, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
There was an all-class boys’ championship tourney between the four class winners in 1973 and 1974.
I’m not sure at what level it was discussed in previous years, but I recall it being asked to the coaches in the Journal or Constitution. There was some resistance.
Seeding has been done as well. Back in the day when B and C were organized by districts instead of classes, the 10 district winners advanced to the state and a committee chose two or three other worthy teams to go as well. This practice only lasted about 3-4 years and changed when those two classes went to regions for the 1957 tournaments.
Being able to request a bonus situation late in a game takes the fun out of it. Your star may foul out. They may throw the ball away. If we used the suggestion, who shoots the free throw(s)? It’s no fair if either coach gets to choose.
Neutral sites are an absolute must. Fans need to be assured that they are safe and secure. There are just some neighborhoods that I’m not traipsing down, rabid booster or not. Referees are also being spread too thin. I know I’m not seeing the best officials.
The monitor suggestion brings up something else in my mind. Has the Macon Coliseum replaced their clock? I haven’t been there in seven years, but in 2001 not only was there no tenth of a second, to reset the clock the timer had to wind it down.
Other suggestions:
Go back to the days of 16 teams. Sub-region and region tournaments were perfect. Winner and runner-up go to region. Winner and runner-up go to state. Perfect.
Make it more friendly for basketball fans without a dog in the fight. Require the host to print programs. Have a mandatory start time or require that the information be in at least three sources (printed media, school website, online version of printed media, or television, etc.).
By Michael Jackson
February 27, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
10 - I agree. But make sure you punish them for unnecessary hard fouls. 9 - Dumb. If a 6-7 kid and 5-8 kid get tangled up in a jump ball - who do you think will win the tip? 8 - Questionable - college and nba officials have 5 cameras filming the game. High School has 1 or nobody and most likely doing a poor job. They would have to hire professional cameramen and pay for the technology required. 7 - Dumb. How often are teams not in the bonus or at least 1 to 2 fouls away from the bonus late in the 4th quarter? 6 - Dumb. A team that fouls too much should be penalized and shooting the double donus is the penalty. 5 - Dumb. The chances that a 1A or 2A school would ever win the all class tourney are very slim. I know at times they have some great teams but its much easier to win a 1A or 2A tourney than it is for a 5A team to win theirs. 4 - Agree. 1 home game is fine if you earned a 1 or 2 seed. It should be neutral after that. 3 - You dont have to fall to take a charge. It just happens that most of the time they do fall. I dont think you understand the rule very well. 2 - I agree. The problem would be finding qualified people to do it. The people most qualified would be coaches and then you would have a problem with coaches being biased. 1 - I agree. A 35 second clock like they have in college would be good.By Basketball fan
February 27, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
I agree with many of the suggestions. Never have liked the possession arrow rule. It was instituted several years ago primarily to speed the game up. If a short player has to jump against a tall player, so be it. I’ve seen many shorter players out-jump or out-smart taller players.
Don’t agree with the “choosing to put your opponent in the bonus”. I do see the logic though. It would more than likely be the team with the fewer team fouls that would be taking the option.
It’s crazy that the GHSA is not more organized on where the 5A tourny games are to be played. We are just learning on Wednesday where Friday’s quarter-finals are to be played for 4 of the top boys’ and girls’ teams.
By Vet
February 27, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
As a veteran of the state tournament three times about ten years ago, here are my thoughts.
Possesion arrow: Who really made the good play? It is not always clear cut. the last thing we need is to depend on the overworked undertrained officials anymore than we already do.
Immediate bonus: your an idiot.
Eliminate double bonus: why would we want to make hack a shaq more viable?
There should only be 16 teams that make it to “STATE”, Sweet sixteen in one neutral site(north/south), and Final Four semi’s and finals on neutral site(Macon), the way it was.
Seeding:
I played in a region that was considered to be one of the strongest, and proved it by our two teams making the final four twice. The other three teams that were state worthy would not of been happy being seeded and put into state, the goal is to win the championship, take care of your business and your in, some teams have to lose. It’s the nature of sports. It made for incredible atmospheres at region and sub region tourney’s which actually made the state games less nerveracking.
The most exciting part was to see every team from every classification still alive in same city. It was fun to watch all other games, and teams you had read and heard about. As a player u felt part of something bigger, which is a great experience in High School.
By Fan of the game
February 27, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
ALL Class Tourney Teams
Norcross Wheeler Savannah McEachern Westlake Dunwoody Randolph Clay Wilkinson Co. SACA South Atlanta Wesleyan WhiteField
Your Thoughts???
By LD
February 27, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
Regardless of the outcome of last night’s game, this fan is still proud of the guys on the Centennial team. They played their hearts out in an extremely hostile arena. I’m all for supporting your team, roaring fans, chanting, etc. but some of the things the Norcross fans did last night were way out of line. Yelling “air ball” when someone misses is no big deal, everyone does that. But the Norcross kids somehow found out the names of the Knight’s player’s girlfriends and started chanting “Hey (player), (girlfriend) thinks you **!” That’s totally classless and uncalled for. Rib a guy about his playing ability, rib him about mistakes, etc. but leave his family or friends out of it. Norcross has a great team and program and they don’t need to resort to this kind of behavior.
By LDshutup
February 27, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
LD - quit being such a pansy.
If you don’t want people to find out your brother/sister/momma/daddy/boyfriend/girlfriend/cousin/baby’s momma - then don’t put that info on the internet, because I am sure that’s where they got it.
By the way, before you POINT fingers, you need to talk to you own.
Centennial players gave the norcross student section “the bird” in warmups. Lorenzo Brown jawed with the students DURING the game.
Centennial fans chanted “RAPIST” all during the 1st quater.
Yet you want to talk about “class” and what’s “called for”.
Shut up and get a life.
By R Bridges
February 27, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
I would love an all-class tourny in basketball. I think that would be great and settle once and for all whose #1. They could fix this in the short run if they would take the top eight teams in the state and let them play in an holiday tourny at the Gwinnett center.
By Jeff u know u are changing the rules of basketball right?
February 27, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
These rules apply for any state of basketball? To complicated but very interesting take, I like the non double bonus idea
By LD
February 27, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
If the Knights fans in fact did yell “rapist”, then that was unacceptable too. But I’m wondering about your comment “if they didn’t want people to find out their family or girlfriends then don’t put it on the internet”? Are you talking about Myspace or Facebook? Other than that, I can’t think of where your fans did their “research” and found out these things. Shouldn’t they be putting that energy into studying?
If Lorenzo was jawing then I’m sure your players were too. That’s part of the game you see college players doing that. As far as the players giving your fans the bird during warmups, I find it extremely doubtful that Coach Whitehart would have put up with that kind of behavior.
As I said, we are still proud of our team and proud of our school. Athletics are important but we also have high expectations of our students academically as well which shows in our high SAT scores, high graduation rate and being a AP School of Merit.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the Northview game, they surprised everyone by beating Marietta. you might get past them but Wheeler will get you in the end.
By Ernest
February 27, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
A couple of changes I’d like to see:
-Start times for first round games posted in a centrally accessible location. Giving the home team the ability to designate the start time is OK but can you let fans know when that time is? The GHSA should own hosting that information.
-With the format of 4 teams from each region going to the state, place one team in each bracket. Last year, region 6 AAAA could have easily had a final 4 consisting of their teams for both boys and girls. The objective is for the best teams to play in the finals. Should you be penalized if your region has the best teams in the state?
-I could go for the all class tourney. It might be a logistical challenge to make happen given many of the athletes may be involved in spring sports and/or AAU/YBOA basketball. I’d pay to see this if it happened though.
By Are you deaf?
February 27, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this
deaf or selective hearing? How could you not hear the “rapist” and “she was 15” chants as soon as Norcross took the floor?
and of course I was refering to myspace and facebook? Are you deaf because you’re 90 years old? Common sense much?
Quick to point fingers at other schools - yet your star player lives in house paid by his AAU coach.
By AAU Coach
February 28, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
Shot Clock is a good idea..But how many seconds? Charging Calls is excellent..Most officials have it imbedded in their brains that someone has to fall down. And as far as the fans….there should be some type of punished for things that are beyond the game!
By LD
February 28, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Dear “Are you deaf?” No, I’m not 90 years old but of course since you’re obviously a teenager you think anyone over 30 is elderly. Unfortunately I was unable to attend the game because of illness, but had several people tell me about things that happened. Some of the people that were criticizing the Norcross fans were not even folks from Centennial but other schools. As I said before, if the fans yelled “rapist” then that is wrong. Where did you get your information about our star player living in a house paid for by his coach? Are you trying to say that his family can’t afford a house in our area? That’s pretty stereotypical and do you have the facts to back up your statements? As I said before, you have a very good team and you should stay positive and cheer for them. IF you make it past Northview, then best of luck against Wheeler, you will need it.
By Jeff Haws
February 28, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
Michael Jackson-
Thanks for the comment.
I actually understand the charge rule very well, and that’s why I don’t like the way it’s called. Yes, I mean at all levels of basketball, not just high school or Georgia high school.
The rule is supposed to be that it’s a charge if the offensive player pushes or moves the torso of a defender who has established legal defensive position. I understand that you don’t have to fall down, by rule, but that’s actually my point. You shouldn’t have to. And players shouldn’t be rewarded for falling on their back while on defense. A charge should be a charge whether the defender falls down or not, and it almost never is called when the defender stays on his feet. And when a defender does fall down, officials seem much too quick to make a charge call.
I would emphasize seeing the charge, not seeing the defender fall down. I would also de-emphasize charge calls on fast breaks and anything within a few feet of the basket. Not that they’d never be called but that they’d be called much less often.
By LDshutup
February 28, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
EXACTLY! YOU DIDN’T GO TO THE GAME.
Hold the accusations until you actually SEE AND HEAR with your own eyes and ears.
And you OBVIOUSLY don’t know much about HS basketball and its shady underbelly. Lorenzo lives in a house (with his mother) that is paid for by the boss of the InnerStrength AAU coach. This is the same coach that pimped Reggie Brice (ANOTHER former Centennial player) to South Gwinnett.
Do NOT comment on things you haven’t SEEN with your own eyes or know about first hand.
By gakat1
February 29, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
I have seen the Centennial students in action the lasst couple years and have even emailed their principal about their horrendous behavior. Last year the students were told at Gw Arena more than once to clear the aisles and stand only in their section.l I sat near them and the cussing was unbelieveable. Yes they are the worst students I’ve seen at any tournament game. And yes they tried it again at Norcross on Tues but were told to move again about 3 times. It’s obvious thier manors have been lost in egotism.
By TauEpsilon01
March 4, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
I actually agree with you on most of the suggestions that you made about the rule changes. Especially the one about reseeding. The reason I agree with this one is this. Jordan was the undefeated regular season champions (2008) and the defending State Champions in AAA (2007). Carver of Columbus who is in the same region as Jordan defeated Jordan in the Region tournament in route to winning the region the (2008) region tournament. Since Jordan lost their game, they had to play in the consolation game which put them in the state tournament as a number 3 seed. A team that is 26 – 1 should not be a number 3 seed under any circumstances. Since they were a number 3 seed they had to play at Glenn Hills’ Gymnasium and ended up losing by 3 points. I am not sure if this statement is true but the local newspaper reported that Glenn Hills took 21 foul shots to Jordan’s 3. That is a great disparity. Just to clear up something, I do believe that Carver of Columbus is a deserving number 1 seed, but I think that Jordan could have been one as well. Believe it or not, that region is similar to how the ACC is in Basketball with teams such as North Carolina and Duke. Either one could be a number one seed in any given year. Prime example, Jordan lost five games last year. For of those losses were to Carver of Columbus. Carver beat them in the Region Championship however lost in the state tournament. Jordan However went on to win the AAA State Championship. This year, as I mentioned earlier, Jordan was undefeated heading in the region tournament; they played Carver in the Semi-finals and lost by nine. These two teams play each other like this each year.
Now the ones I do not agree with. I don’t agree with the all class tournament. The Superbowl is the reason why teams aren’t satisfied with a conference Championship. The World Series is the reason why coaches can still get fired after winning a pennant. There has to be a time when a season ends. To me there is nothing wrong with multiple champions. Further more, if you are going to do it like that then get rid of the 5 classes all together. That way you won’t have teams who have to travel out of town to play five games a season with teams that are 80 plus miles away when they have schools that are less than three miles away. Hardaway and Harris County wouldn’t have to worry about joining AAAA (leaving AAA) and Jordan and Spencer wouldn’t have to worry about joining AA (leaving AAA). I would break the regions down by the areas the schools are located versus the number of students at the school.
I would keep the double bonus. Reason, the students need to play as close to the rules as possible for college. I would also require that all gyms are 94 ft instead of 84 ft in the high schools. Ten feet makes a big difference.
Lastly, if you are using monitors then they should be used through out the year. Not just the tournament. I can remember when the GHSA only called for two referees during the regular season during the 90’s. In the tournament however, they used three. This was a big adjustment because two referees working together call a game differently from three working together. The rules need to be the same from start to finish.
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