AJC > Sports > Highschools > Blog > Archives > 2007 > November > 27 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBy taking step down are preps really taking a step up?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
It might be a little strong to say private schools have dominated athletics in their classifications since 2000, but it’s not all that far off, especially with some sports.
During the 1.5-multiplier system went into effect in 2000, private schools below Class AAAAA won more than their share of state titles: 22 of 24 in volleyball, 40 of 56 in tennis, 14 of 14 in swimming, 36 of 53 in soccer and 55 of 64 in cross country.
But with the multiplier that bumped most of those private schools up one classification being dumped for 2008-10, there are concerns about what will happen from a competitive standpoint as they move down.
Marist has decided to remain in Class AAAA, but that’s the only private school in the metro area that has elected to play in a larger classification than its enrollment requires.
Schools like Westminster, which has won 49 state titles at AAA since 2000, are making the move down one level to compete with schools that don’t have the advantage of having more students.
Whether that amounts to making the competition tougher, though, is up for debate.
“We made assumptions [with implementing the multiplier], like that AAA is harder than AA; in some sports, that’s not true,” GHSA executive director Ralph Swearngin said. “I think it becomes an easy explanation, ‘Why do some schools do well?’ It’s because they’ve got more money, or they recruit. It may be true, but it may not be as prevalent as people think.”
Swearngin may be right, but if Westminster, Blessed Trinity, St. Pius, Lovett, Greater Atlanta Christian and others had as much success as they did against schools sometimes much larger than them, how well can public schools compete when that enrollment advantage is taken away?
If there truly is a competitive advantage for private schools, is the 1.5 multiplier an effective way of dealing with that? Is there another solution that would work better?
Or is it just a matter of schools that put an emphasis on athletics and place good people in the right positions will be successful? And have some of the private schools simply been better at doing this than public ones? If this is the case, why should schools like Westminster be handicapped simply because they do things well?
Permalink | Comments (23) | Post your comment | Categories: Jeff Haws
Comments
By Will SPX play Marist
November 27, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this
Hey will SPX play Marist next season in a non region game, is this even posssible, Golden Lion
By Problem Solved
November 27, 2007 9:07 PM | Link to this
Region 3AAAAA has only one true AAAAA school; the others are playing-up. This explains Camden’s domination in that region over the years. How can GHSA let one team have that much of an advantage?…or the region they play in the first round of the play-offs? Again explains Region 1AAAAA domination of the non-Camden schools from Region 3AAAAA in the first round this year. 3 of 4 Region 3AAAAA schools didn’t even score in the first round.
To fix this mess: (1) deny schools from playing-up, everyone goes where they’re suppose to based on enrollment; (2) go to 16 regions instead of 8 with the top 2 teams per region participating in the play-offs.
This will solve the AAAAA Region 5 and 6 playing a sub-region format (which basically provides two #1 seeds) and also allows schools to play more competitive non-region schedule.
It’s not rocket science GHSA.
By NSHS FAN
November 27, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this
I agree with statement that Camden County will make the play-off every year. The Savannah teams are a joke. Jenkins High has the largest enrollment of their schools at around 1500. Next is Beach High about 1100. Camden County about 2400. Savannah Schools look likes fools playing other AAAAA teams. They lose to AA Brantley, Long, Counties every year. If anything, Camden should be moved to 1AAAAA to compete with peers like Valdosta, Coffee, Warner Robins, etc.
By Interested Observer
November 27, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this
According to this article, Marist is the only school “playing up,” but according to the AJC’s projected classifications, Pace Academy is in AA (although their enrollment is under 525). So… will they be in A or AA?
By Ben
November 27, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this
The main question of this article is: Do the private schools have an advantage? The results specified w/in the article attest that they certainly do have some kind of large advantage to account for all their success. I don’t think it’s recruiting, or else you would see many more Division I recruits in the major sports at these schools and the private schools thus winning more championships in football and basketball. As I posted before, the most competitive football era of the privates was from late 60s-1980, when Woodward & Westminster won two titles in the equivalent of today’s AAAA, St. Pius won once, Marist was second twice, and Lovett won Class B I believe. There is definitely not as much advantage now in football or basketball. Overall, the obvious edge of the privates perhaps can be attributed to the generally better facilities at private schools, parents who will spend money for equipment and off season training and are more concerned about achievement, more kids in the student body who will attempt to be successful, and the easier process of selecting desirable coaches. The privates generally aren’t asked to do the kinds of social work and other addressing of special needs that public schools are required to address. In effect, I think that you probably have as many kids in the privates who are serious athletic candidates as a public school with 1.5x the enrollment.
I graduated from Lovett in the mid 80s and think that at least a multiplier of 1.25 is fair. Really, can Lovett, Marist, and Westminster keep racking up titles and still claim victimization? I applaud Marist for its courage in playing AAAA when its enrollment would place it in AAA (or even AA?). I think the primary reason for its success in football is coaching and commitment of the school to having a “progam.”
Regarding the early posts, which I think were intended for the other articles about reclassification, one of the main reasons to request playing up is due to travel expenses and time.
By cchs fan
November 27, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this
I agree with NSHS fan. We want to play there in region 1. yes we will not win the region every year but we will be competitive enough to ruin most teams playoff chances and it will make us a better playoff team. We at camden can’t believe the ghsa would allow AAA populated schools to play in the same region as us. I am a die hard cat fan but don’t travel to savanah or even attend home games when we are playing them. Im not the only one either. I have been to every game they played in the dome though and I would travel to Valdosta, tifton, Moultrie, Douglas and Warner robbins to watch the cats. The ghsa has another problem leaving region 1 the way it is and adding northside because now they’ll have 8 teams that should be in the playoffs but won’t be. GHSA: If you can’t put us in region 1 AAAAA then we would be much better off in region 3 AAAA with ware statesboro and the likes and they are just as close as savanah and have a larger student body. Think about that this thursday. Take Nothside, Houston and WR and put them in region 2. Move us to 1 and create a region 3 southwest of Atlanta and split region 6 into 2 different regions. Theres your answer.
By Jeff Haws
November 28, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this
Interested Observer-
Pace will be in Class A in 2008-10.
By Steve
November 28, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this
Camden has tried twice in the past five years to move to Region 1 and both times have been denied. I agree there is nothing more boring to watch than a Camden region game. When the JV is on the feild the whole 2nd half and still scoring and shutting the other team out. Please let us move, we want to move. Who doesn’t want better competition. But doesn’t GHSA have that rule that no school sporting team will travel more than 100 miles on a weeknight. So every other sport is what is dictating the problem. I hope they use some commons sense.
GO Cats on Friday!!!
By cchs fan
November 28, 2007 12:51 AM | Link to this
if 100 miles is the case we shouldn’t be playing up there anyway. the closest school to us is bradwell and i’m pretty sure they’re farther than that. 70 miles up 95 and about 30 inward. Coffee is closer than that. I travel all over the state for my job and have been to all these places and it only takes me 20 more minutes to get to valdosta or tifton as it does to hinesville.
By St Pius Fan
November 28, 2007 4:06 AM | Link to this
I commend Marist for staying in AAAA, not one but TWO levels above where they should be. Marist invests the time, energy and money required for coaches, facilities, equipment, training, recruiting, athletic scholarships, and “spirit” activities. They have a true athletic “program”. This intense commitment and dedication to athletics by players, coaches, parents and administrators has great results, eg winning the Directors Cup every year in AAAA, winning more state championships in more sports than anybody in AAAA, having something like 20% of their student body win Division 1 athletic scholarships. Marist has “earned it” and clearly is capable of competing in AAAA or AAAAA , and good for Marist that they decided to continue to play up. Good for everybody else in the state that we play against schools our own size.
By More kudos for Marist
November 28, 2007 6:27 AM | Link to this
I commend Marist for staying in AAAA, playing up not one but TWO levels. Marist invests the time, energy and money required for coaches, facilities, equipment, training, recruiting, athletic scholarships, “spirit” activities and PR/media relations. They have worked hard to build a true athletic “program” (in addition to academics near the top in Atlanta). This intense commitment and dedication to athletics by players, coaches, parents and administrators has yielded great results, e.g. winning the Directors Cup every year in AAAA, winning more state championships in more sports than anybody in AAAA, having something like 20% of their student body win Division 1 athletic scholarships, being recognized by Sports Illustrated as not only the best athletic program in the state, but one of the very best in the country. Marist has “earned it” and clearly is capable of competing with the very best in AAAA or AAAAA. Good for Marist that they decided to continue to play up. Good for everybody else in the state that we all play against schools our own size.
By John
November 28, 2007 7:58 AM | Link to this
Camden County will be in a AAAAA region where every other member is playing up. Unbelievable. No wonder Camden is so successful in region competition.
By GaSouthAlum
November 28, 2007 8:25 AM | Link to this
You people keep blaming Camden?? Unbelievable! If you want to blame someone for that mess, then blame the Chatham County administrations for putting all of those Savannah Schools at a competitive DISadvantage, Camden isn’t making this problem, Savannah is. There are six schools in Chatham County that should be playing AAAA or lower. If Chatham County had decided to go to AAAA, then that sounds like a subregion to me. Heck, maybe even their own AAAA region. So, don’t blame Camden, blame the administration in Savannah that didn’t listen to the concerns of Windsor Forest or Johnson or Beach.
By NSHS FAN
November 28, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this
TO: BY CCHS Fan, Great idea if Camden can’t be in 1AAAAA give them a special provision to play in 3AAAA. I am from the Savannah area and stay clear of any of their teams that come to Warner Robins. (My 25 years old Windsor Forest jacket stays in the closet). I have sent suggestions to the the Georgia Athletic Association and appealed to coaches to do something about changes to 3AAAAA. I am sure their are others that feel as I do but no one listens. A good rule would be not to allow any team to play up more than one classification. That way Jenkins HS would max out at AAAA and the other schools AAA or below.
By CHARLTON WELCOMING COMMITTEE
November 28, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this
HELLO BUFORD, WELL WE HATE TO SEE YALL GO UP A CLASS BUT WE WILL SEND YOU OUT IN STYLE, PROMISE. TRY OUR HAMBURGERS WHILE YOU ARE HERE, THEY ARE GEEEEOOOOOD!
By NSHS FAN
November 28, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
Hey, not so fast on the re-classification. I see some school scheduled to move up are appealing to stay where they are because a new school or two is under construction in their county/city. Case in point, NSWR is 60 students over AAAA requiring them to move up to AAAAA. A new school, Veterans High will be ready in 2009/2010. I am hearing a shift of about 400 students from NSWR, WR, HC, and Perry will move to Veterans High creating an initial population of 1200 students at the new school. Should that happen, only Houston County High School student body will support staying in AAAAA. Sure WR and NSWR can play up but I for one hate making 3/4 hour trips to south Georgia when Henry, Clayton, and Spaulding counties are just over an hour away.
By WRHS Football Fan
November 28, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this
NSHS FAN,most WRHS fans I speak with would elect to play up regardless of the student body population.
By WRHS Football Fan
November 28, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
By the way NSHS,I’ll take driving 2 hours one way over sitting in traffic for 2 hours anyday then still having to finish your drive.
By The truth
November 28, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this
The way it should be is that Private schools should have there own little league where they play other private schools. If your gonna play each other in any sport, ALL THE RULES, no matter if there for the sport, the classroom or whatever should be exactly the same. That would take away ANY advantage to either school. I’m sure there will be arguments about privates only playing with other privates(sounds funny) and whoever has tougher rules now but it’s not fair to be able to recruit.
By its on
November 28, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this
I agree with Ga.south Alum and steve; camden fans don’t want to play those weak Savannah teams. we were hoping they would drop, so we can move to 1AAAAA. They need to switch coffee and a Savannah team to make 3-5A little more competitive. The trip is about the same.
By glw
November 28, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this
I think that private schools should play up, I think some kids do go there for the athletic benefits and to compensate for that a multiplier should be applied. I think Alabama uses a 1.35 scale, I think something in the range of 1.25-1.35 would be a good idea.
As far as the Savannah schools, I cant quite understand while all those schools choose to play up, doesnt make sense. Why get drubbed? but really they arent that good to begin with in terms of football, but do ok in basketball. Also I notice that 3 City of Atlanta schools elected to play up in AAA. South Atl, Southside and Therrell might have won 7 games between them this year, why choose to play up? Why not play down where u have a chance to be more competitive?
By BTW Alum
November 29, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this
I am a City of Atlanta residents and high school athletics supporter. I totally agree with the point GLW made about the City of Atlanta Schools(Southside,South Atl & Therrell)deciding to play up. However, I was told that the decision wasn’t made by the respective school’s administrators.It was made by the school district’s central athletic office. As a result, you have a three schools who are suffering from gentrification and declining enrollments, struggling to compete in a region that will in all likelyhood welcome their Big Brother Washington High School(previously 5-AAAA)to their region next year. Washington has about 500 more students than any of the three aforementioned schools.
By SouthGAFan
December 2, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this
Camden fans — come on to 1-5A. We have the toughest region in the State. We’ve won more State games than any other region. Is it worth the drive knowing that you can’t compete against the other teams. Lowndes is going to prove my point next weekend.