AJC > Sports > Highschools > Blog > Archives > 2007 > October > 30 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USExtra Point: No tiebreak solution set
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
With just two Fridays left in the regular season, it’s the time of year that fans start dreaming of what the playoffs will bring.
Will your team make it into the postseason? Which teams are going to see their season end next week? Who will your team match up with in the first round? It can be fun to scan the region standings and see that your team controls its own playoff fate or that maybe they’re going to need a little help to get in.
But each year, there’s a problem when looking at tight region races: No one seems to know the tiebreaking formulas for each region.
Each region has a representative who is responsible for knowing his region’s tiebreakers but, with 40 regions in the state, it’s difficult to keep track of them all.
While the Georgia High School Association has its own default tiebreakers, the GHSA allows each region to use any tiebreaking method it wishes. GHSA executive director Ralph Swearngin said a little less than half of the state’s regions use its recommended tiebreakers, meaning most of the schools and their fans are dealing with whichever method region representatives determined in a preseason meeting.
But Swearngin says the GHSA doesn’t want to wield too much control over what regions do.
“We feel very strongly that there should be a distribution of powers,” Swearngin said. “We feel like the people that are involved in the region need to make the decision that works best for their region. We like the individual autonomy.”
Roswell coach Tim McFarlin - a coach who may end up dealing with one of the more complicated tiebreaker scenarios in a couple of weeks if his Hornets tie with Chattahoochee and Centennial - said he appreciates the GHSA allowing regions to decide these matters for themselves but that something needs to be done about the wildly varying region sizes, complicating playoff scenarios while 5-5 teams go to the postseason and 8-2 teams stay home.
Swearngin said the confusion is mostly an issue of poor communication, and he agreed that posting each region’s tiebreaking formula on the GHSA Web site could be a viable option.
You make the call: What do you think? Should the GHSA decide on one uniform tiebreaking formula for each of the state’s regions? Would placing each region’s formula online be a good compromise? Is there another solution? How much worse does region size make this problem?
Pile on! Got a high school sports issue for Jeff to tackle? E-mail him here.
Permalink | Comments (29) | Post your comment | Categories: Jeff Haws
Comments
By Matt
October 30, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this
The different region sizes definitely throws a wrench in things. Under no circumstances should a 5-5 team go to the playoffs while an 8-2 team sits at home!
By Big Stirl
October 30, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this
I think that the GHSA should establish an accross the board tie breaking system for all regions in all classifications, because it ridiculous for each region to be able to set their own tie breaker system. You should also until the their is one uniform tie break system should post every regions tie breaker system on the GHSA site. So fans will not be shocked and or surprised when their team get’ left out of the playoff’s because of some bogus tie breaker that no one new about except the region representative and maybe a few atheletic directors.
By GW
October 30, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
Posting the tie-breakers on the website would be a good idea. The inequitable size of the regions is a problem but south Ga. and metro being what it is I don’t know how it could be solved. Being that the regions vary so much in size they must be allowed to decide their own tie-breaking systems. 3-AAA has predetermined that the winner of one sub-region will get the #1 seed regardless of record. An undefeated team could be seeded 2nd while an 8-2 team is seeded first. A one loss team could even be seeded fourth.
By Go Dawgs
October 30, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
They should at least start by posting the different tie-breakers for each region on the GHSA website. Also i remember a couple of years back when a winless regular season team made it to the playoffs because there was only 4 teams in the region. That should never happen.
By Consistency
October 30, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this
The rules should be the same for all teams and all regions. Plus dump this A and B zone stuff in some regions. It is not fair to the region(s) that play these region(s) in the playoffs because they are basically supplying two 1 seeds and two 2 seeds; not a true 1 thru 4 seeding. Go to 16 regions and only the top 2 teams make it to the playoffs. Get away from the liberal educational thinking where everyone has to be made to feel good about themselves. Kind of like youth soccer; a team goes 0 for the season and each player still walks away with a trophy taller than they are. Not certain the message the kids get from that one but I don’t view it as positive. Back to football. If you’re a top team, you move on; if not, you go home. Hummmm, a lot like the game of life.
By DirtDobber
October 30, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this
Whatever is done , GHSA needs to establish communication and consistency among all sub-regions, state-wide . Coaches/teams should be alolowed input then based on this , the same tie-breaker policy should apply to all .
Now my opinion … Need an extra week in there for a tie-breaker game. A 3 way tie means all three have same overall and subregion records . If not, the best 2 overall go . If there is truly a 3 way tie let all three flip a coin . Odd team out plays automatically . Match teams play the extra tie-breaker game. If all three match on the coin toss then flip again (and again) until there is not .
You could make the determination exclusively a coin toss and no extra game but then someone always feels short changed . :) Sorry, just had to say that !
By Please
October 30, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this
The GHSA has tried to lessen its influence and allow local control of local issues. Who better to decide a region’s state playoff participants than the region itself. If one doesn’t know the region tiebreaker then whose fault is that?
By devil lover
October 30, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
I don’t like region 7 3-way tiebreaker method. Option 5 is what we will use if 3 teams are tied. We will draw for the #2 spot and then it goes back to head to head for the #1and #3 spot. There must be a better way.
Region By Laws Fotball tie breaker Section 1:Football
1. Head to head between tied teams. Head to head is defined as percentage against teams
2. If tie cannot be broken, then record against teams above tie starting with the highest team. At any point tie is broken, revert
back to head to head
3. If tie cannot be broken, mini games involving team tied, or if they select to flip coin (option)
4. Games outside region will not count in tie breaking process
middle spot, then had to head will determine remaing spots.
By Michael buchanan
October 30, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this
Putting all the tiebreakers on the web is a good idea. Sounds like a job for Jeff Haws!
By Pat
October 30, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this
A four team region should get only one playoff spot. A 5-8 team region should get 2, 8-11 team region gets 3 and a 12+ team region should get 4 or even 5 spots or a similar system. It would take some figuring but would eliminate the 2-8 team getting in at the expense of an 8-2 team.
By Lee
October 30, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
Is there a way that the AJC could post region standings? Obviously we don’t know all the tiebreaker scenarios, but it would be nice to see how the other teams are stacking up in the region.
By Nuff Said
October 30, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this
Pat, you’re right on the money. The larger the region the more play-off slots, the small region would recieve less play-off slots. The way it’s decided now with every region getting the same amount of play-off teams is unfair and doesn’t make any sense, which I might add is the way most of the GHSA rules don’t make a lot of sense. MAKE a DECISION GHSA !and decide who goes and who stays home
By Michael
October 30, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this
There is a real possibility you could have a team that is 1-9 in this years playoff.The #4 seed in region 1AAAA could be 1-9 and make the playoffs because there are only four teams in the region.
By For Lee
October 30, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this
Lee, Go to www.gasports.com and on the left side of the screen you will see a ‘fall sports’ section. Hold your cursor over ‘football’ and you should be able to select region standings. Double-click on a team and it drills down to their schedule/results for this year and previous seasons. Team schedules, top 10, playoff brackets, etc are there also.
By HSballfan
October 30, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this
By chs fan
October 30, 2007 8:17 PM | Link to this
The GHSA should try to get all regions the same size chamblee region 5A-AAA has 15!and is a subregion. teams and while others have 5 or 6. Also ban subregions because one side is usaully stronger and a team gets screwed out of the playoffs.
By HSballfan
October 30, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this
The last post got mangled it would appear. Help me sort out the AAAA regions 4 and 8. Each team plays nine regular season games and then a “region playoff” game Nov 9th. What does that mean and how does it work? Does anyone know?
By JT
October 30, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this
This problem relates to all sports. Take golf. You have one region with 5 of the 12 teams could win state. Yet only two teams go. Yet you have a 7 team region where two teams also go and the players can’t break 100. Good players are penalized because they are in the wrong region.
By Buzz In Roswell
October 30, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this
I think it is a good idea to post tie-breaking procedures.
And also, if a team is in a subregion, end the “Top 2 in each” situation. It should be the winner of each subregion goes to the playoffs and the next best two regardless of subregion. 6-AAAAA is usually a subregion, and I have seen many good teams screwed out of the playoffs because they play in the stronger subregion.
By HSballfan
October 30, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this
Little doubt the 1AAAA situation is a thorn in a lot of sides. Last year, for instance, Tucker lost three close games and missed the playoffs at 7-3 while Bainbridge 5-5, Americus 3-7 and Lee County 3-7 all went to the playoffs and got demolished in the first round.
By Jeff Haws
October 30, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this
Pat-
Interesting idea. The problem, of course, is that it would be tough to make sure it added up to 32 playoff teams. And if it doesn’t, then you have to figure out how to formulate a bracket with byes and such. That seems like it solves one problem but creates several other ones.
By cwhitfield@ajc.com
October 30, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this
HSBallfan,
The way that works is that you play a nine-game regular season and then the last week you play for region seedings for the playoffs. In most (but not all, which is kind of the entire point of this blog) regions, you have a system where the top four teams are guaranteed a playoff spot and the top two teams play for No. 1 and No. 2 and 3-4 do the same. Other regions have a system where the top eight teams in the region play each other 1-8, 2-7, etc. and the winners advance to the playoffs. Again, not every region does it the same, which, again, is kind of the whole point.
By ajc.com HS sports editor
October 31, 2007 8:12 AM | Link to this
Region standings for all metro teams that the AJC covers are on the various team pages linked on ajc.com. You’ll find all 120 of them in the pulldown menu listed under “Teamtracker” on the High Schools page online.
Every team page has a color bar at the top with the region standings, team stats and team roster for the 120 metro teams covered. Clicking on “standings” brings up region standings for your team, along with various in-region teams we may not cover online or in the newspaper.
Hint: Typing in ajc.com/preps or ajc.com/hs will also bring up our high school page.
By REALCOACH
October 31, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this
I think that GHSA should have a unified across the board format, in which it does! It should eliminate regions making there own format! When your team wins, everything is fine! these senerios having been leaving 8-2 teams in the mist for years! nothing new. a 5-5 team may have played ten 8-2 teams and a 8-2 team may have played 10 1-9 teams! Leave it the way it is and compete! thats what sports is about, not numbers!Give your kids this senerio and the beginning of the season! Dont give them a cake schedule!
By To Real Coach
October 31, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this
Sounds like to me that your in one of the small Regions and you like to be guarantee a play-off spot before the season starts??
By REALCOACH
October 31, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this
I hate to burst your bubble, but i am in a 8 team region, class 5A, 3 of the teams have been ranked in the top 10. 4 of the teams total lost count is 3 loses, between them! Really i dont like guarantees! put your team in by ranking, strength of schedule, not by who likes who!
By JC597
October 31, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this
Regions 8-AAAA and 4-AAAA “Region Playoffs” System:
For the 10th and final game of the regular season, the top four teams from Sub-Regions A and B play each other as follows:
1A vs. #4B 1B vs. #4A 2A vs. #3B 2B vs. #3AThe winner of each game is in the playoffs. The loser is out. Seeding is then assigned according to each team’s final region record.
So, you could have a 9-0 team that has worked hard all season lose a fluke game to a 5-4 fourth-place team in the opposite sub-region and the undefeated team would not advance to the playoffs.
Pretty silly, honestly, considering it undermines the efforts of a team that has performed consistently all season if that team plays poorly in the final game of the season.
In my opinion, the best way to have a “Region Playoff,” for regions with two sub-regions or divisions would be as follows:
1A vs. #1B 2A vs. #3B 2B vs. #3AThis way, the two top teams in the region play each other to determine a true region champion (and #1 seed). Then, the #2-#4 seeds are determined using the various tie-breaking methods.
Another variation on this method (although slightly more controversial) would be to allow the winner of the #1A vs. #1B game to be the #1 seed and the loser to be the #2 seed. Then, the winners of the other two games are automatically the #3 and #4 seeds according to their region records and various other tie-breaker rules.
By 16 Regions
October 31, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this
Easiest solution is to expand to 16 regions and only the top two teams go to the playoffs. None of this #$%^&*( sub-region stuff. Plus that makes the schedule a little more flexible in playing outside your region.
By HSballfan
October 31, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this
I have to wonder what genius came up with the 4 and 8 AAAA system. There’s a very good chance that Griffin could be left out of the playoffs despite winning it’s sub region given the strength of the other division. I’m sure there’s probably somebody at Upson Lee who thinks it’s a great idea… especially since Griffin barely escaped that upset last year.