AJC > Sports > Highschools > Blog > Archives > 2006 > October > 16 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USGHSA, just DON’T do it
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
For what it is worth, here’s a plea to the GHSA, which on Tuesday will decide if North Gwinnett’s magical season goes kaput to a minor technical infraction: Don’t do it.
Your reputation as inflexible and, to an extent, archaic, can be softened a great deal with a decision based more on human compassion and less on convoluted rules.
This eligibility case is hardly worthy of the kind of penalty that is expected to be levied. Forfeiture of games because of the timing of a player transfer? There has been no evidence of recruiting or a question of whether the transfer was legitimate. Just the timing of the transfer.
Even if North Gwinnett was not 6-0 and No. 1 in the state, the reprimand of forfeiting games would be too severe. The GHSA’s history is that of completely by the book, and to veer from the previous stance would cause a firestorm from all the schools over the years that were similarly victimized.
So while this is a plea for the GHSA to do the human, rational thing and not impose the usual punishment, it is not realistic that it will happen.
Apparently rules were broken. And North Gwinnett has to suffer the same consequences of other schools across the state who failed to adhere to the regulations. And who can blame the GHSA for doing what it always has done, which is to execute the bylaws set forth?
Certainly, this is not to make the GHSA out as the villains. Led by Ralph Swearngin, the body is committed to governing the state with integrity. And administrators have to, first, know the rules and regulations and then adhere to them.
Do the rules need to be revamped in some cases? Yes. In this case, there was no intent to deceive or circumvent the rules. No real harm done, so why foul up a wonderful run by North Gwinnett?
It’d be great if the four-person voting panel could unanimously vote contrary to the guidelines. But do not count on it.
Permalink | Comments (36) | Post your comment | Categories: Curtis Bunn
Comments
By Alex
October 16, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this
The fact of the matter is North Gwinnett knew the rules. They knew the consequences for playing an ineligible player. Collins Hill administrators told North Gwinnett that this student may have an eligibility issue, and they failed to follow up on it. That is there fault. Norcross had a basketball player transfer last year from a private school. This student had always lived in the Norcross district. The Division 1 prospect transferred, not because of athletics, but rather academics. The GHSA denied his eligibility. Norcross was forced to play this student at JV, which no doubt made it more difficult for him to be considered by colleges for a scholarship. But the Norcross administration followed the ruling because they knew the consequences if they failed to do so. Personally, I feel the GHSA is almost as corrupt of a governing body as the U.N. is. However, when they have rules in place, it is up to the member schools to follow them or face the consequences.
By fan
October 16, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
Other schools have played ineligible players and had to forfiet the games they layed in. Some of those schools did not even know the player was ineligible. North Gwinnett knew!
By The Dodger
October 16, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this
Simply put…rules are rules and when you break the rules, knowingly or not, there are consequences to be paid. North Gwinnett, take your lumps now, it is not the end of the world. In fact a run at the state championship, which you will do, is far more important than an undefeated season. Just think about it if North is the #1 seed they would probably play Parkview who looks to be headed to the #4 seed. That would be an interesting match-up.
By marco
October 16, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this
Tough call, but a message needs to be heard by many of the schools in that area. I have watched,for example, Buford and other city schools have players magically appear for their senior seasons. Players who do not live in that schools geographic district. GHSA needs to take their head out of the sand and make some hard and fast rules regarding all this moving around of players, and a mandate that you must live in that schools City limits to attend a city school. Why should city school districts be allowed to have athletes who don’t live there attend their schools. County schools are not allowed to do this. Different rules for different schools make the system unequal.
By GA HS FAN
October 16, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this
Any plea for the GHSA to modify sanctions for violations unveils the North Georgia bias that so many in South Georgia perceive. Many yearn for able surrogates to the recent dominance of the Lowndes and Camden programs. Sorry guys and gals, the supremacy will remain in the south. The rules apply to all. We will see you in the Dome!
By Jrod
October 16, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
The ruling needs to follow precedent. I remember a few years ago wheeler losing all of its wins off a similar technicality. Coaches need to make sure all their players are eligible. Period.
By NJC
October 16, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
This is a joke! The player is a 3rd stringer who got in for a play or two after the outcome was already decided. In no way did he affect anything. The rules need to change.
By Huh?
October 16, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
Rules are rules. But what I’m confused about is who the hell redrew the regions this year, and why? How is Cass playing Carrollton and Douglas County playing Cherokee? WTF? And Cartersville plays Sandy Creek in Fayette County? These are schools that are at least an hour away from each other, but there are schools of comparable sizes closer by. I don’t understand! And I certainly don’t like driving so far to see my favorite team play! GHSA WHAT DID YOU DO?
By Puddin
October 16, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this
Thanks Curtis. UDAMON!What ever the result. North Gwinnett has had an incredible year. It would be a shame to lose out on a technicality. I say no harm no foul. GO DAWGS!
By 01'Wildcat
October 16, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this
Do the crime, pay the fine. It’s all cut and dried ya’ll. What makes it sad is that the kids suffer for an adults mistake. Hey Curtis, did you attend NG or something? I mean, since this whole thing began you’ve been picketing for the rules being bent for NG. It’s really kinda interesting.
By BluDevs
October 16, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this
Curtis, like in the NCAA (which must check and enforce recruiting rules MUCH more than the GHSA), this case should be evaluated on both intent and impact. N. Gwinnett in that case would win out, but its not like we’re dealing with reasonable people here.
“You ‘rules are rules’ people would be the first to complain while getting ticketed for going 5 mph over the speed limit.”
And also for you S. Georgia fans - the last time a No. 1 team’s season was threatened like this: Valdosta won an appeal to the Georgia High School Association in 1977 and forfeited games were restored. God forbid if a N. Georgia teams gets a pass.
NG - hopefully your schedule is intact when we play you. It’s one thing to beat a team riding high, than it is to kick you when you’re down. ;D
-Norcross fan.
By ELLE
October 16, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this
I am confused as to why Mr. Bunn is using the newspaper to attempt to sway the outcome of this ruling.
I know that you have historically appeared somewhat “HARD” when it comes to other Gwinnett County schools… “Parkview” and “Brookwood”.
Why the change of heart? After all “rules” are “rules”. Right?
This seems UNFAIR. Especially… if other schools have been penalized the “same” way.
I feel badly for the players… but if this rule is going to change it should change… in the next year. This allows “ALL” schools to be treated the same way. Not an “EXCEPTION” because… someone made a mistake.
By 01'Wildcat
October 16, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this
To the moron who wants to separate south ga fans from everyone else for some reason, shut your ingnorant mouth. Yes, if you get a ticket for ANY reason you’ll get mad. It’s just human nature. I don’t know anyone who says, thankyou for the ticket officer, I deserved it. What a duffus!!
By HS_Fan
October 16, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this
First of all, this is the REAL way this went down… Collins Hill called NGHS and told them to “check this student’s address”. NGHS did that. He was in their district, so NGHS didn’t think anything more about it. Collins Hill didn’t have the proper transfer in place. That was the REAL reason that NGHS didn’t know that the kid wasn’t ineligible. Why would they play a kid that hardly even played (<10 plays all year) if they knew he was ineligible?
Cut them some slack GSHA!
By BluDevs
October 16, 2006 06:18 PM | Link to this
The point of the comment Wildcat - was to prove that its easier to take the hard line against anyone as long as its not directed towards you. And people expect N. Gwinnett fans not to be defensive. Yeah. I’m just shooting for objectivity here.
And pleeeaase - there’s been North vs. South GA devisiveness on the AJC long before I got here - so don’t accuse me of seperating S. GA fans. Every other day I have to read about how “superior” South Ga. football programs are from some inane blogger. Yes - and I’m apt to believe that because of the devisive comments, S. Georgia teams fans are much more willing to take the hard line against a N. Georgia team.
Back to my point though is that N. Gwinnett BY ANY OBJECTIVE MEASURE is innocent of wrong-doing. “Rules are rules” is probably the least objective position you could take. The NCAA assesses infractions based on intent and impact - a fair approach, and they deal with recruiting far more than the GHSA has to. Befuddled paperwork shouldn’t cost a team it’s season. Period.
It’s likely that after we beat N. Gwinnett, they probably won’t get into the playoffs (having four region wins erased).
By Sports Fan
October 16, 2006 06:30 PM | Link to this
Wow High School Football has rules and rules should be followed but there is a huge difference between stacking your team with a player from another school and a kid really moving into the area. GHSA was that not the intent of the rule in the first place. It looks like you are backed up in a corner. I hope you show fairness to the situation and not a blanket punishment.
There is no need to hurt the kids on the team, the kids in the school or the parents. I read some of the comments and no wonder we see so many harsh penalties passed on. It always amazes me how many people wish harm instead of good to others. Maybe a new precedent is needed. I hope the appeals process is genuine. I really feel for the young man who moved in the area. The GHSA will hear the appeal and are the only ones who can help this young man out as well. Please do not let this one but all penalties fit the situation and not a blanket penalty. *If need be re-write the rules when you are done with this case so you will have choices on the next school that makes a mistake or breaks a rule. Was it done on purpose or by accident? * Best Wishes To All Sports Fans
By boldyeller
October 16, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this
I liken this forfeiture of region games to the zero tolerance law- of no knives brought to school. And a young 3rd grade girl brings a plastice butter knife to class to cut her birthday cake to share with her classmates. She and her entire class are suspended from school. GOOD GRIEF- base this decision on COMMON SENSE.
By Willie L.Johnson
October 16, 2006 07:53 PM | Link to this
sir, I’ve been a high school football official for 28 years.when people in charge know the penalty for playing a a player whom is illegally on the field,there is a set law against that.Don’t blame GHSA for enforcing the WRITTEN rule.That like saying because it was cold and he/she didn’t have a coat then the store and police she overlook the shoplifting charge..sure that maybe something you want to happen but the law is just that….the law.thanks for your time.
By andy
October 16, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this
I agree, Curtis. Its just a shame what the hardworking, competitive boys earned on the field and that they may lose it due to a situation in which the players had no influence or impact. Its a real shame, especially to the seniors.
By boldyeller
October 16, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this
INTENT and IMPACT!!!!!This is third string player(no disrespect to player)-who did not even need to go in the game to secure a win. Simply a reserve player- not the #1 RB in the state. No concealing of wrong-doing. The boy lives in the N.Gwinnett district. Yes, a simple form would have immediately made him eligible. This is all about the timing of transfer-not whether he could have played or not this year. The onus lies with administration- not these young men battling on the field.
By NGsenior
October 16, 2006 09:16 PM | Link to this
I’ll say it right off the bat-I’m a student at North.
With that, I can tell all off yall hating on our team that the ‘player in question’ is in fact a 2nd, & sometimes 3rd, string player. The games in which he participated were already a done deal. Think about it, when youre up enough points, you let those play who would never usually have the chance.
In the same sense, I know the administrators very well in my school. I, too, participate in NG sports. I know for a fact that if any of them actually KNEW there even could be the smallest problem with elligibily, they would have done something to fix it.
I think it’s rediculous that this poor player, who’s family moved into NORTH district, has to go through all of this garbage over a few teams and their pitiful “sorry loser” attitudes.
It’s totally unfair to the boys of this football team to be penalized so severely over such a miniscule technicality. And in any case, I feel that ALL GHSA teams should be investigated. Like previously mentioned, several schools have players ‘magically’ appear. Why should our team be punished over an unknown error, when other schools play inelligible player purposely, and use them for victory?
By wildcatonthewardog
October 16, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this
I hate to say this, but thrid string or not, all coaches know their players. When a new kid shows up to play sports, the coach, or assistants or the school ask that kid some vital questions. Their is this thing to request his records from the school that he just came from as well. As far as checking his parents driver license for an address, come on now, when did that become criteria for showing up to play football on a high school team. That’s somethng that we did in POP Warner football in the ‘70’s and 80’s. I think that this whole thing is twisted, I don’t think there was an intent to deceive or make an impact. The other side is unless you have the talent of a Caleb King, there is no way any transfer student will play first string, we all know that you start off and earn your way into that starting spot. This not about that, it’s about the rules that are set by GHSA. Whether we agree or disagree, when other schools as recent as the past two years had to forfeit games, this ruckus was not made. The bottom line is with anything, you make sure all the T’s are crossed and the I’s are dotted, so noone can question what you did or did not do. The North Gwinnett School System did not do that, so now it’s time to give an account as to why.
By SportsMom
October 16, 2006 09:48 PM | Link to this
Why would GHSA be so harsh on North Gwinnett as to punish the players and take away a chance at a perfect season? I don’t see how they can. Surely they will not punish a group of young men who have worked so hard and overcome so much! Last spring, Coach Cecil Flowe from Parkview was on drugs (prescription or other…doesn’t really matter)and was “warned” about his lewd behavior at a school sponsered event that he chaperoned. If this is tolerated and an error in registration is punished, then I will have to ask…what are the priorities of GHSA? Do we put so much emphasis on sports that we have become immune to unacceptable behavior by the very people that should be setting examples? Surely lewd behavior in the presence of students warrants more punishment than a clerical error. In my opinion, this is another case of a mistake by a coach. Parkview’s team was not punished for this. Neither should North Gwinnett be punished for a clerical error by a school employee. Put the blame where it belongs and discipline the employees involved and let the team have the opportunity that they have earned and put it all in perspective, the player involved wasn’t key starter.
By Elle
October 17, 2006 12:28 AM | Link to this
@SportsMom: Cecil Flowe was “1” chaperone oF “MANY” chaperones at the event.
The FOOTBALL SEASON was over. The prom had NOTHING to do with the Football program.
Why not stick to the facts… North Gwinnett broke the rules. You proved what a great deal already suspected… if it is Parkview or Brookwood… we should be punished for failure to follow the rules.
The players at “Parkview” and “Brookwood” work just as hard as North Gwinnetts or any other Football program. Yet you wish for an exception to be made while you classify the “BROKEN RULE” as a clerical error.
By the way North Gwinnett has a few skeletons in the closet as well. Cecil Flowe falling short just happens to make better “NEWS”.
If the rules are for ONE it should be for ALL.
By Hank
October 17, 2006 01:15 AM | Link to this
I agree with most. If you break the rules then you deserve what you get. If they are 6-0 or 0-6 shouldn’t make a difference. There are too many kids that jump from one school to the next to be in better sports programs. If any one is to blame it is North Gwinnett.
By boldyeller
October 17, 2006 07:43 AM | Link to this
Upon waking this morning I told my son who is a senior on the NORTH GWINNETT BULLDOG TEAM that no matter the outcome today- HANG TOUGH-Just keep doing what your doing. I LOVE YOU.
By Pam
October 17, 2006 08:30 AM | Link to this
Good luck today Dr. Green and Coach Culpepper!
By Goober
October 17, 2006 08:36 AM | Link to this
Hank…… You insinuate this kid “jumped from one school to the next to be in better sports programs”. He left Collins Hill, a region powerhouse, to come to a school which was predicted to win maybe 5 total games and has had 4 coaches in 4 years. His transfer had nothing at all to do with sports. You people who are criticizing North for nothing more than doing what your school cannot (win) need to think before you speak. This goes for you too Elle…… You admit in your post the Flowe broke rules and was not punished, but still say rules must be followed…Make up your mind. If these kids had won only 3 or 4 games, lost to Collins Hill, not mentioned in the AJC, this would NEVER have been mentioned. Let another school join the ranks of the unbeaten and look what happens. I just hope Coach Maloof is going over everything at Norcross with a magnifying glass because I am sure he is next. Good to Norcross and North Gwinnett and I hope, wish and pray that one of you take state.
By Steve
October 17, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
After reading through the entire blog, the lack of objectivity in most of the comments is appalling. I almost thought the discussion was on football, not sanctions against North Korea!
A quick Google search on Mr. Bunn reveals that no, he did not attend N. Gwinnett, nor a school in this state. Perhaps that is the root of his sensibility for a situation that clearly illicits the sentiments of those who are too close to the situation or have something to gain.However, the most reasonable comments I read are those from a person who’s team has the most to gain from an unfavorable ruling against NG - Norcross: Hats off to you BlueDevs.
While I am not intimately familiar with the details, it appears from this blog that the infraction committed by NG was minor, and probably has not affected the outcome of any game. The player in question is clearly no Caleb King (sincerely, best of luck on your rehabilitation, Caleb).
Posters: Put yourself in NG’s situation. Better yet, pretend this is a team from another state. Knowing all the facts, would you still feel the same way? I guess I can better relate now to Auburn going undefeated, and not having a shot at the NC. Being a Georgia fan, it really didn’t bother me.
I wonder if the scrutiny of the situation would have existed when NG was 15-25, during any four years in the 80’s?
And BlueDevs perhaps NG can pull it off, even without a player that might not have set foot on the field.
Good Luck NG
By Austin
October 17, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this
this is sooo stupid! north should not be penalized for a third string that never plays! He has probably played two or three plays all season! Your all just made because we have an extremly young team that is destroying everyone in their path i mean look at micheal tamburo hes a sophmore and the number one passer in ths state! This is the first time in a long time maybe even ever that north has been ranked first in state they should not be penalized for something as stupid as this!
By GA HS Fan
October 17, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this
The word objectivity has been thrown around. Does anyone think there should be no penalty? The comments I have read reveal a lack of objectivity in both camps. It is a perfect example of the insidious bias that we all possess. Justice will be metered by those charged to do so, not fanatical spectators. We should be more concerned about graduation rates and true education. It is simply a gladiator game.
By TMLSB
October 17, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this
I’m frightened because I am sure I know some of the folks posting here, and this kind of nonsense is beyond silly.
By Larry V.
October 17, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this
Let me start off saying that I AM A NG BULLDOG!!! This school district is most certainly one of the best in the county. I did not go to school in this area but my wife graduated from North and my kids will do the same. We are in a very near rezoning situation in a couple of years with the new Lanier HS and I immediately sold my other house to specifically be in the North school district. The people who criticize the “ENTIRE” North program have no idea the caliber of people they are talking about. These are human beings and we make mistakes. The people involved are tremendous individuals who deeply care about this area, the people and our system. If any penalties are dropped on this program I will have to say that I would like to have one single bit of proof of any of the four members of the ruling board of the GHSA have never made a mistake their enitre life. This was not intentional nor was it recruiting. I stand 100% behind Dr. Green, Coach Culpepper and Coach Sphire and I feel safe to say the enitre NORTH GWINNETT COMMUNITY DOES ALSO. GO DAWGS!!!
By move
October 17, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
NORTH G, MOVE OUT THE WAY!!!!!!!
By Puddin
October 17, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
Curtis, Thank you for helping our cause! Ole man Searngin needs to retire or be fired. GO DAWGS!
By KSShake
October 19, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
I’m honest about how I feel on these different topics we blog about. And I’m gonna keep it real with ya’ll. When this story first broke, I thought “Good, dirty cheats, they deserve to get busted!” But I thought, “Let me stop doing what I don’t like to see others do” Hatein’ on someone else, passing judgement, and not understanding the other perspective”. So I took my time listened to people have been saying and bloggin on both sides.
I feel the folks at Nort Gwinnett deserve the benefit of the doubt. It seems to be a honset, understandable mistake and I’m quite sure it probably happens more often than people admit, and they DID admit and come clean about the situation. There doesn’t appear to be any malicious intent to cheat and deceive. And thats were are common sense and rational thinking needs to kick in. I’m not a North Gwinnett fan and I don’t think there the #1 team in the state of Georgia.But, I’m not gonna let those things cloud my judgement and rational thinking, because before I’m a fan of ANY program, ALL of the schools consist of the whole thing I’m a fan of first, High School Football! Regardless of whether I’m a North Gwinnet fan or not, the kids playing for them deserve a fair deal to prove themseleves on the feid not by a rigid 4 person panel of people that are probably so far out of touch they don’t have a clue as to what’s going on beyond a bylaw in a book. However, I do wonder if people would be so favorable or unfavorable had this been a lesser known school or a Tri-Cites, SW Dekalb, or Mays. Just wondering.
By the way, in my opinion some of these high school basketball teams are WAY more corrupt and dirty (Wheeler, and I remember a couple of years ago Berkmar, and even further back Southside in the James Forrest and pre-James Forrest days). And SportsMom, if your gonna talk sports you gotta understand a little ManLaw and the Code of Sports, if you did you wouldn’t bring up that “dead” issue about Cecil Flowe that has NOTHING to do with anything (sports related) and we as true high school sports fans are WAY tired of it.