Opinion Talk

By "The Corporal"

December 10, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Should public high schools that are all black merge? We tried that once.

People want to attned public schools near where they live and they want to go to college where they feel the most comfortable.

Let people make free choices. That’s what this country is all about.

By Regina

December 10, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

As a fourth generation Alum of a HBCU, I have mixed feelings on the issue. There’s a part of me saying, “Yes, we shouldn’t have vestiges of segregation remaining in our society”. However, a part of me is saying, “The history and the sense of family is so embedded in HBCUs. I have never felt as nurtured as I did at an HBCU”. Maybe it was because I had family on the faculty and members of my family had attended the university for generations. I can attend a function of any HBCU and feel a part of the festivities…a part of the family. Having attended predominately white schools until college, I was equally comfortable in my environment since I have always marched by my own drummer. However, there were always reminders that would pop up at times to let me know that people still thought of me as a minority.

Years and years ago, there was also talk of combining my Alma Mater with another university in the area. However, after much protest, the idea was dropped. Yet, the students at both schools can take classes at either school.

Who knows what the future will bring? Change is definitely occurring and we are moving forward. Hopefully, while moving forward, we can keep the great history and traditions intact.

By Ripdog

December 10, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Yes, they should merge. It’s unnecessary and waste of our tax money to have public colleges so close to each other be seperate institutions. I already know the arguments that will come eventually. Those that involve heritage and the need for HBCUs. While I understand all of that, I don’t think my tax money should support it.

By Jose

December 10, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Of course not. This is the same old “Jim Crow” trick that was used to allow southern rednecks to steal millions of acres of land from southern black over the past 100 years. This proposal is a continued effort for greedy, evil, crackers to siphon state funds from black schools to white schools that already has every stolen advantage out there. Remember, black schools were created because racist white schools would not allow blacks to attend their universities. States OWE black schools continued funding for the ills of past laws.

By Mark

December 10, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

Yes. Having an all black college is racist. Just like BET. If there were an WET, you people would cry racism as well.

By tcoach

December 10, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Jose how do you use the word cracker in that way then call someone else racist.

Obviously there was no college at all in your life black or white.

By Common Sense

December 10, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Oh yes, sins of the past. You need to get over that tired old excuse.

By Timothy

December 10, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

There are no black colleges. Whites are allowed at traditionally black colleges. There are no white colleges according to the law. I don’t see the need in having two colleges in the same town if there are opportunities availible to everyone.

By Regina

December 10, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

My fellow bloggers…let’s remain civil…

We can disagree without being disagreeable and calling each other names.

Some statistics…

HBCUs have played an historical role in enhancing equal educational opportunity for all students.

More than 80 percent of all black Americans who received degrees in medicine and dentistry were trained at the two traditionally black institutions of medicine and dentistry—Howard University and Meharry Medical College. (Today, these institutions still account for 19.7 percent of degrees awarded in medicine and dentistry to black students.)

HBCUs have provided undergraduate training for three fourths of all black persons holding a doctorate degree; three fourths of all black officers in the armed forces; and four fifths of all black federal judges.

HBCUs are leading institutions in awarding baccalaureate degrees to black students in the life sciences, physical sciences mathematics, and engineering.

HBCUs continue to rank high in terms of the proportion of graduates who pursue and complete graduate and professional training.

Fifty percent of black faculty in traditionally white research universities received their bachelor’s degrees at an HBCU.

By Jim Crow

December 10, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

WET…..LOL, all you have to do is watch NBC, ABC, CBS, etc and you have WET all the time!!!!!

By Regina

December 10, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

My grandmother used to say, “There is no black way or white way, just the right way”.

We, as Americans, need to move forward and do what is best for all of us as a nation. However, I repeat, we must work to preserve the great traditions and history.

By MissV

December 10, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Some HBCUs should experiment with merging: right after they compare graduation rates and independent audits.

By Erod

December 10, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

Wow, Jose, I agree with tcoach. Apparently there have been no colleges in your past at all, historically black or not. This really should be an economic issue, and it does seem to make no sense to have public colleges and universities so close together if we coud cut costs by consolidating. Remember, we are talking PUBLIC colleges that should be open to anyone, not private collegesthat people shell out big bucks to attend. Not everything has to be turned into a race issue, people… And to anyone (people like Jose)who feels the need to comment on my ethnicity having something to do with my opinion I am neither black nor white…

By Michael G.

December 10, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

Black colleges lose money, it’s a statistical truthful fact. Majority white colleges make money, another historical statistical fact. End of story.

By Call it Like it is

December 10, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Nothing needs to singled out anymore indicating that something is a traditionally Black College and the like.

Again, if Whites pointed out all of the time that this is generally a White College or whatever, then, the race card gets played.

This is why if America wants equality, then it should stop the segreation or making the take notice statements about this is a Black College, Black Owned, business,Black History month,and the like.

To me, when these statements of color or race are made, it disrepects all other races and can send a signal that when a particular institution, business, or a recognized month is for a certain race only, to me, causes segration or racial divides amoung most.

The time has come to stop making it a point to bring up race as an indentifier across our nation when referencing schools, business, etc.

Just an opinion.

Enough Said!

By Martin

December 10, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Yes, please merge these colleges. I really don’t care to have my hard earned money go towards “nurturing” individuals. All of that “nurturing” or spoon feeding is why some of their graduates can’t function in an environment where everybody doesn’t look like them. We don’t need seperate institutions that serve the same purpose. It’s 2008 and we are still talking about “black” and “white” schools. How ridiculous is that.

By just me

December 10, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

As I commented on another blog, there is no such thing as an “all-Black” college. Remember, Morehouse’s valedictorian was White last year. My alma mater typically has 10-15% enrollment from Whites and other ethnicities (much higher percentage than the Black population at our traditionally White counterparts). I see no issue with merging these types of schools, as long as the same consideration is made for other schools that operate in such close proximity (even if both schools are traditionally White).

By black coffee

December 10, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Wow Jose You are an idiot.

At this time I can’t see much of an argument for not merging. Yes….history, sense of community, blah, blah, blah.. It is a tax drain for them to be so close and not combine. BUT…white schools bring money in while HBCU’s don’t. Whitey, crackers or THE MAN aren’t trying to steal anything from anyone. And, nobody owes you-or anyone else for that matter- a freaking thing!!! Get over yourself.

By Peadawg

December 10, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

I don’t anything wrong w/ merging them.

By Big Will

December 10, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

As a graduate of Savannah State University I wouldn’t have a problem if Armstrong Atlantic was merged into Savannah State University. I have a SERIOUS problem with SSU being merged into Armstrong Atlantic. The new school could become stronger than before. Armstrong does not have the history that SSU has simply. SSU is the #1 marine biology program on the East Coast and offers programs in Business, Math and Science, Criminal Justice, Mass Communications, and Homeland Security. Armstrong has primarily produced teachers and nursing professionals. The combined school could then offer classes at both campuses Eastside and Southside. Athletically SSU is a D1 basketball independent with limited success of late. Armstrong is a solid D2 basketball program. SSU has a football program that is reestablishing itself after years of dormancy.

By Huey Newton

December 10, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Ok let’s take a look at merging these schools together to save public funds well how about we merge the white college with ASU and SSU but the black colleges keep their name and great tradition. But since we are talking about merging how about we merge Georgia State with Georgia Tech to save state funds. I will never be thought of to merge a white school with a white school but people want to merge a black college with a white school. It will make a whole lot of sense to merge Georgia Tech with Georgia State University.

By Stephen

December 10, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Why not privatize the historically black state institutions? Alumni/ae could direct fundraising efforts directed at entertainers and industry. State funding could be phased out over a 5 to 10 year period, providing the schools with enough time to build up substantial endowments. It will take a while to hammer out detailed agreements, so the economy should have rebounded sufficiently to sustain privatization efforts.

By HBCU Alum

December 10, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Fact: Most HBCU’s were founded because students that were black were not allowed to goto schools with whites. Ex. Virginia State University was called “Virginia State College for Negroes” until 1956 when it changed to Virginia State University. I think that we should keep the schools separate only because of the types of environments that people attend school. Georgia State is a public school but is very large, but there are other schools in the area that are public and much smaller. Let people have their choice of where they would like to go to school without being bothered by race. I think that we should be well beyond the name calling and trash talking. Aren’t we all adults (or at least supposed to be).

By CommunistAJC

December 10, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Cynthia, When you attended Auburn, did all those “white” folks scare you? Also, will you ever write a column that doesn’t evoke race fighting on your so-called blogs? Who cares about white or black schools? Let people choose where they want to go to school.

By DJ

December 10, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

As an HBCU alumnus, I do see the economic value that might be discovered in considering the mergers. That makes sense. That does not negate the fact that selection of the proper environment for education should be an individual/family decision and there should be many options to weigh in such a selection. Environment contributes greatly to likelihood of success for students.

I’m not sure how this can be a fair conversation if we only mention mergers of HBCUs and PWIs though (yes, Predominately White Institutions is a commonly used term in higher education - google it), while not making it about proximity of schools in general. There are numerous PWIs in the country (and in the state) that are in very close geographically to another. Georgia State and Georgia Tech come to mind. I’m not saying they should be merged, but if we don’t analyze the cost-benefit of those situations, it appears an ulterior motive is being hidden in the discussion.

In addition, the discussion must also include the intangibles. I personally attended “white schools” K-12. Many years after graduating from an HBCU, I still find myself cherishing the decision, and the outcome, more and more each day. I could relate to the band’s selections, find likenesses in the diversity of the cheerleaders, seek more common ground with professors whose struggles had been a lot like mine, and found pride and value in an environment that showed WE do succeed, in spite of the common newspaper headlines and societal views. I missed all of that in K-12. Given the chance to choose, I did… and I chose well.

The argument is weak that HBCU graduates are not prepared for the demographics of the real world. First, no school or institution will fully reflect those demographics. In fact, the racial makeup of some cities leans more toward the HBCU model. Secondly, some of us were clearly able to assemble and succeed in K-12 schools that were predominately white. Thirdly, as has been posted, HBCUs do have students that are white and otherwise. Personally, I’ve progressed in the corporate world exactly as I would have expected to (if not even to a GREATER degree), while working with all types of people. If you read the HBCU graduate stats posted earlier, you’ll find that most of us do. It’s the base expectation.

Again, I don’t think it is wrong to have this discussion. I do think, however, that the participants can not be one-dimensional in their thinking. I’m sure we all learned the fallacy in that.

Aggie Pride

By ASU Hornet

December 10, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

As a graduate of an HBCU, I don’t think the merger or consolidation of schools should be used just to try to balance the budget. If you’re gonna do that, why not consolidate government agencies too. If you can show that 75-80% of courses and degree programs are the same with the two schools, then there can be some justification for merging the schools.

“Today, vestiges of that outdated system remain in the form of colleges that are publicly funded and virtually all-black, frozen in place by inertia, political timidity and confusion about the mission of public institutions.”

I don’t buy that hogwash for a minute. Anyone who has attended a HBCU in the last 10-15 years know that they progress as the state funding lets them progress. Before I graduated, ASU had a rapidly expanding minority (non-black) student and staff population. To qualify for a minority scholarship, all white students had to do was graduate high schoo. These were full scholarships that included tuition, housing, books, and any other expenses that had to be paid. I have never heard of any non HBCU schools giving scholarships to average students in that manner. The only exception would be athletic scholarships, and that is a different can of worms.

I don’t see a need at this point to merge the schools. If it can be shown that it is an advantage for all students, I can be persuaded to change my mind. However, the history and traditions of both schools involved would have to remain as part of the combined school.

By Aunt Edith

December 10, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Remember when VMI and the Citadel were forced to accept women? Did you know that some of VMI and the Citadel’s legal fees were paid by some black colleges? Why? Because letting in women would open the door to letting in whites.

These black colleges don’t have a legal leg to stand on. Is it sad? Yes. Is it unfortunate? Yes. Why? Because, IMHO, while we are busy trying to make everybody the SAME, we are losing our individuality and what makes us each special. That is what is really sad!

By Maria

December 10, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Mark, There would be no need for a BET if we had equal time on the major networks.

I think the colleges should remain separated.

By Regina

December 10, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Michael G., you stated…

Black colleges lose money, it’s a statistical truthful fact. Majority white colleges make money, another historical statistical fact. End of story.

Much of the funds brought into many large predominately white institutions is due to the major athletic programs, i.e. football, basketball…And if the football team snatches a major bowl win? You are talking millions of dollars being pumped into the university. The programs promise the sky to young athletes.

However, HBCUs have produced many athletes, a short list…

Walter Payton- Hall of Fame NFL player (Jackson State) Jerry Rice- NFL player (Mississippi Valley State) John Stallworth – Hall of Fame NFL player (Alabama A&M) Doug Williams – NFL quarterback (Grambling) Steve McNair- NFL quarterback (Alcorn State)

By Coffee Creamer

December 10, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Sounds like you want Trickle Down IQ to me. Hey it worked in my office. I have blacks on each side of me. After 5 years of me tutoring and training them on their jobs, their IQs has increased 50 points. Yes… TRICKLE DOWN INTELLIGENCE!

By Regina

December 10, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

DJ, excellent points…

By Morehouse-Harvard Alum

December 10, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

I usually try to refrain from this blog given the racially-tinged cluelessness that substitutes for informed opinion, but I’ll weigh in anyway.

I see Ms. Tucker’s point, and ALL public college mergers should be considered to save public funds. I am a bit curious as to why these four institutions were singled out, but I will presume Mr. Harp acted in good faith. And as with any merger, audits (from all institutions involved) and deliberations considering merged identities that are sensitive to the history and missions of HBCUs is certainly merited if the State exercise this option.

The assertions that “black schools” lose money should be taken with a grain of salt. A host of HBCUs are on sound fiscal footing (e.g. Morehouse, Howard, Spelman, Hampton, NC A&T, Tuskegee, Southern, Claflin), so I’m not sure how anyone could responsibly make such blanket claims of insolvency (or unprofitability) with respect to all HBCUs. But then again, being informed seems not to be a prerequisite for positing comments on this site.

Also, a host of state-supported HBCUs (e.g. Bluefield State, N.C. Central Law, Kentucky State, etc.) have either majority-white or substantial white student populations so the view that taxpayer dollars are somehow funding a form of unacceptable segregation is absurd.

Private HBCU options will remain for those students, parents and teachers who are desirous of the kind of students environments that have come to characterize HBCUs.

As long the process of considering mergers is deliberative, well-informed and where decisions have rational, empirical bases that are not clouded by the kinds of ridiculous (often racist—from both Blacks and Whites) sentiments often expressed on this page, I’m all for it.

By The Truth

December 10, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

The comments on this page are indicative to the lack of racial progress in Georgia. There still seems to be the pervasive and insidious opinion that anything remotely related to Black should be marginalized and discredited with no intelligent investigation whatsoever.

Indeed, while the rest of the world quickly moves to secure and disburse education among their populations in order to advance their economic standing and security in the global economy, the good people of Georgia are so mired in racial animosity we can’t even rationally discuss the best options for delivering higher-education because of race.

It is disheartening and discouraging knowing that children have to grow up in a state where ignorance, racism, and sexism have not been reconciled after all of these years.

You can do better than this, Georgia. Sooner or later, you have got to do better.

By The Truth

December 10, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

From the look of things - just keep the colleges separated in Georgia. Blacks resent whites for years of injustice and slights, perceived and real. Whites just seem to hate anything Black.

No surprise Georgia is darn near last in education.

By BT fan

December 10, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

The only reason CT wrote this radical article is to sulk whites as she has since being hired on at ajc… She thinks every white person has owned a slave or is racist..Their is racism, but CT certainly pushes the button for both white and blacks to keep movement alive.. The ajc would be a healthier paper without her nonsense.

By Regina

December 10, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Morehouse-Harvard Alum, also excellent points…

By Morehouse-Harvard Alum

December 10, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

So, BT Fan, how exactly is this particular article an example of her “sulk[ing] whites?” I’m confused. She’s endorsing a plan to consider black-white mergers as a means of addressing the vestiges of Jim Crow. It’s called progression. It may be a foreign concept to most Georgians, but trust me, it’ll do us some good.

How exactly is this yet another addition of what you view as CT’s airing of any racial grievance? Or, could it be that your disdain for Ms. Tucker (a Pulitzer winner no less!) prevents you from actually considering anything she says on its merits? Quite frankly, a subpar daily like the AJC should thank their lucky stars that a decorated writer like Ms. Tucker graces their pages.

When did honest historical observations and their contemporary impacts become an unwelcome airing of grievance? And how is this article radical? She’s sided in with a fairly conservative state legislator!

But then again, I assume the Cynthia haters actually read the article and understood it. Silly me!

By DJ

December 10, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Agreed Regina - as were yours.

By Coffee Creamer

December 10, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

I agree BT fan… Seems like she tries to polarize the citizens. Lot’s of vitrial to the Party of Lincoln.