AJC.com > Opinion > Opinion Talk > Archives > 2008 > October > 06 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USName-brand colleges not worth extra debt
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Summer jobs underwrote most of my undergraduate years at a state university. After college, I worked for a year to earn enough to pay for a master’s degree at an Ivy League university.
But with the leap in the cost of higher education, the only way today’s college students could pull that off is by spending that year running drugs and the summer selling body parts.
In a generation, the average annual tuition at public four-year colleges and universities rose 268 percent, while the cost of private schools swelled 248 percent.
Last week, my high school senior came home with a list of small liberal colleges that his counselor felt were good academic matches. I spent a while on the Internet researching costs, and it wasn’t easy. Pricey colleges tend to downplay their prices, omitting them from their “At a Glance” or “Quick Facts” pages.
No wonder. Tuition and room and board at two of the schools exceeded $50,000. Both reject more students than they accept, so they have no reason to fret much that their prices are driving off applicants. In fact, the most selective universities are typically the priciest.
College presidents blame climbing costs on the bidding war for the very best faculty, demands by students for fancy amenities such as tony health clubs and competition to attract the most talented scholars. Critics counter that college presidents are overlooking a few factors, such as their own lack of market discipline and their indifference to productivity. For example, research shows that while teaching loads of tenured professors have fallen, salaries have increased. And the scholarships dangled in front of talented students are more about enhancing a school’s U.S. News & World Report ranking than improving education for all students.
As long as parents take out second mortgages and raid retirement funds to afford college, critics say, schools have no motivation to change. Plus, parents can point to evidence that their investment in a brand-name campus pays off for their child.
A study released this summer by PayScale Inc., which compiles compensation data, found that the median starting salary for Ivy League graduates is 32 percent higher than that of liberal-arts college graduates. PayScale says the median starting salary for a University of Georgia graduate is $44,100, compared to $66,400 for a Harvard grad. However, the study doesn’t address whether that pay differential is the result of a better education, or simply because the Ivies can attract higher-achieving students in the first place.
To me, the question is whether the additional prestige of a high-priced college degree justifies the additional debt that often comes with it, especially in this dicey economy. We’ve all heard stories about the bright college grad who moves back home with an anthropology degree, $40,000 in loans and a waitress job.
My oldest transferred from a private school to UGA this year, and says she’s much happier. She’s not juggling schoolwork and two part-time jobs. With the HOPE scholarship, she’s not feeling guilty about whether we’ll have any money left to send her three siblings to college, a feeling probably fueled by tales of how often I’ve been serving macaroni and cheese for dinner.
With two kids in college next year, there’s a lot more mac and cheese ahead. Fortunately, I like it.
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By sweettea
October 6, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
Well, lets see, if you look at those salaries and compare… say… UGA with Harvard and assume that the kid is on a HOPE scholarship, I believe that you are talking about a $40,000 difference in college costs PER YEAR. So…. you go in debt for an additional $40K in order to earn $22K more in salary.
Looks like those Harvard kids aren’t so smart after all.
We have a house painter working on our living room right now who went to Harvard… He was also a nationally ranked chess player. I went to a state university.. I probably make about 5 times what he makes in a year.
By "The Corporal"
October 6, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this
The bottom line is our whole university system needs to be revamped. It’s really a valuable waste of time and resources the way it is set up. Too much time to goof off, party, etc., etc. I would change it to an extremely intense three year program with a “co-op” in your field of study, on campus volunteer work program or R.O.T.C. and community service REQUIRED. That’s just for starters.
By Do Something Useful
October 6, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
Good idea, gentlemen, now let’s compare apples to apples. Take five degree majors at an Ivy and a quality state program and then compare starting salaries, price, etc. That way we can see who has the better deal.
My opinion is that: 1,2,3) the student is the driving force to high-level university achievement, 4.) the quality of teaching follows second and 5.) lab and research facilities follow (at the undergrad level). At graduate levels, I would also add in high-level research opportunities.
By Tina Trent
October 6, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
Good column. Don’t forget the flip side of the equation, though — those rising tuition costs are going into the pockets of administrators and for real estate and non-academic “programming” while even tony schools staff more and more of their teaching slots with grossly underpaid adjuncts.
I put myself through a great state school working, too. But as a college instructor, I can’t live on the $1650 per class paid to adjuncts now, and adjuncts make up more than 90% of the workforce in my system and increasing numbers nationwide (Georgia is better, on pay and percentages, but not for long — a recent report showed that, nationally, only 3% of post-secondary teachers under the age of 34 had non-temporary jobs.). So when you write out that tuition check, check to see if any of that money is actually going to the person who is teaching your kids.
A generation of tenured faculty (and guess which generation it is), the majority of whom your kid will never see in a classroom because they only need teach one or two classes a term, have imposed a poverty on the next generation of teachers that is far worse than anything Wal-Mart imposes (so much for their intense dedication to social justice, et. al.). Yet, somehow, tuition keeps going up.
My advice: send your kid to a state school. Ask how many classes will be taught by actual professors (adjuncts are often great teachers, but they aren’t being paid squat and they aren’t given the resources to do their jobs well). And tell your son or daughter not to become a post-secondary teacher. Taco Bell pays better, and unlike adjunct jobs, they offer health insurance, too.
By BPJ
October 6, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
It’s worth mentioning that many top private schools (Ivy and “New Ivy”) are increasing their scholarship funds.
Second, if you believe the main point of college is to earn a certain starting salary, then an Ivy League school probably doesn’t make sense. (Lifetime earnings may tell a different story, by the way.) Many alumni of top colleges believe it was worth it to spend four years learning from some of the best minds in the world, and competing with some of the best students.
I went to what US News would call one of the “New Ivies”, and my experience was that top professors taught the classes themselves, and were available to students outside of class as well. And in the long term, some of the classes I treasure most had nothing to do with determining my starting salary after college, but rather my appreciation of art and music.
But a particular path is not for everyone, so generalizations about where someone else’s child should go are useless. Some should not go to college at all, some should go to a technical school, some should go to a good state university, and some should go to a highly selective private university.
By Blue Devil
October 6, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
Hahaha, I put myself through 4 years of school at a “name brand” college on a full ride athletic scholarship. Paying tuition is for suckers!
By RealityKing
October 6, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
It’s not what you know that makes you the most, it’s who you know. And they all go to ivy league schools…
By Linda Smith
October 6, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
Does Payscale mention where these starting jobs are located? Typically a UGA grad would work in the south and a Harvard grad would work in the north where starting salaries are higher anyway due to cost of living differences. I’d take 20k less per year to live in Atlanta vs NYC where apartment rent alone would be 5 times as much.
By RealityKing
October 6, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
Mostly it depends on the type of degree and work you seek… A science degree from UGA just doesn’t measure up to the one from MIT. Of course, if your life long dream is to write opinion columns for liberal newspapers.., then you’ve certainly wasted your money attending an Ivy League University.
By GoBD
October 6, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
Upon graduating from a so-called “name-brand” college last May, I possessed more than 50K in student loans. Moreover, I managed to walk away with only a degree in what is possibly the most liberal arts of all liberat arts major (think Eliot and Faulkner) - hardly marketable in this day and age as one’d imagine. In fact, given the dire state of our economy, most people just assumed it’s either teaching or waiting tables for me. Well, think again! While many of my high school acquaintances (and state college alums) are still scouring for jobs today, I secured a decent paying job (business related, I do nothing in the field of “English” except for writing a mean email here and there) back in November ‘07. Almost 4 months into working, I’ve already paid back half my loans. The name of my school got me into doors and will continue to do so for the rest of my life. Sure it’s a burden to pay back student loans but hell, there’s a reason why I graduated from where I did. I know better than what seems to be 90% of the general population who borrow beyond their means to pay back. Education is an investment. While I’m not implying that an education from an Ivy is better than a quality state program (that is furthest from the truth!), one should not use money as an excuse to forgo an ivy league or ivy-caliber education. In fact, elite private schools like Harvard have some of the financial aid programs in the country. Take my brother for example. With his scholarships and financial aid combined, he paid only 5 grand to attend Harvard last year. Obviously, money is no excuse. For those who suggest “name-brand colleges” are not worth the dollars, I apologize but from where I stand, it’s all worth it.
In addition, I hate to state the obvious but the choice to opt between a public university and a top 10 private college with sole regards to financial reasons is left only to few. Chances are, if you’re a brilliant, sought-after student in an economically dire situation, your financial aid packet will contain a tidy little sum. In some cases, a full ride even.
You just have to get accepted first.
By Trig
October 6, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
Funny the article mentions UGA as an example. Unless you’re on the HOPE scholarship, I consider that an expensive and overprice school. I went to Chattahoochee Tech and graduated with a $35K/year job, but it only cost me $4000 for my entire degree!! Meanwhile my plumber graduated from UGA 2 years ago, so he got ripped off bad. You go to UGA you make maybe $10,000 more, but if you don’t have HOPE, you pay $30,000 more. Looks like the UGA grads aren’t so smart after all!
By Trig
October 6, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
And my $35K/year job after graduating Chattahoochee Tech is more than enough to support me in Dalton GA where I paid $300/month in rent. Alot of the UGA grads live and work in Atlanta where it’s more expensive, so there $45K/year salary is all wasted on cost of living anyway. Being “smart” and going to a name-brand school like UGA is a total RIP-OFF!!
By Grob Hahn
October 6, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Watching the Dow travel back through time reminds me that the only investment that can withstand this sort of market fluctuation is your education. Once it’s in your brain, it can’t be removed. Colleges know this and know that they will always be expensive (right up to the point they close down).
Grobbbbbbb
PS: Sallie Mae is a terrible trap to get into, do whatever you can to avoid them and for your sake don’t even think of deferring payments, they capitalize the interest and grow your principle debt.
By Concerned oldtimer
October 6, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
The university system could save money and thereby save in the cost of an education by requiring all full tame faculty to TEACH 40 hours a week as do all public school teachers. Many of the public school teachers now have PHDs and they continue to teach 5 classes per day.(40 hours per week with duties thrown in) That is just the first step. My daughter had an eldery gentelman teacher at UGA who could barely walk in the room. Maybe some of these guys just need to retire. And yes, adjunct staff or TAs now do most of the teaching…low salaries, no fancy office, and no benefits.