By Georgia Values

July 24, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

Georgia gets the polution, Florida gets the power.. Just payback for us stealing their water.

By AH

July 24, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

Apparently no one has visited Early county. Ain’t much down there for them to do for work, this plant is more than just a power plant. It will revitalize the area and help lift the people out of poverty. Build the plant and then jobs will follow. If you haven’t noticed lately but GA and the area have been getting some good business’s lately. Kia in LaGrange and just over the boarder Volvo in Tenn. GA would get even more of these types of facilities if we could show an abundance of power and good labor.

The Longleaf plant was designed with some very good control technology, while it isn’t the absolute best (coal gasification) it is fairly good. It would have been a new benchmark in GA for the rest of Southern to shoot for, thus improving the air quality overall.

We all need to start lobbing our officials to help get this plant built because it is good for Early county and good for the State of GA.

By joey

July 24, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

I support the plant. Our future demands more electric power. My personal preference is nuclear, but coal works also.

Wind turbines require supplimental power from another source, coal or nuclear, any time there is insufficient wind to meet the electricity demand. Georgia does not have suitable wind even for economical individual turbines.

In response to Georgia Values. The Florida Panhandle’s only long range water plan is to store rain that falls in north Georgia and release it to Florida when Florida wants it.

That is not much of a plan. To my knowledge no one south of metro Atlanta is under any water conservation measures.

The non-coal alternative is nuclear, but these same people who oppose coal are equally opposed to nuclear.

By Serf Turf

July 24, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

That has been the trade-off since the industrial revolution: Jobs for lungs.

Jobs are good. Lungs are good. A job where you get to keep your lungs is good.

So. Company’s 1.3 billion commitment to clean the air is good. But the 1.3 billion dollar figure doesn’t tell us much. The 186K pounds of pollution doesn’t tell us much either.

Just what is the fraction? 186 over X?

Solve for X? Lets see, carry the two, divide by the pythagoreum theorum, and you get Pi. (a pie in Southern Company’s face if 186k is a drop in the bucket.)

Whoever wrote this blog’s article should have shown just how much of the total plant emissions 186K pounds is. Then we’d have data to build a debate upon.

By zeke

July 24, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

BUILD IT NOW! To hell with the environmentalists! We should demand congress passes laws to ban those radical groups including the sierra club, aclu, and, all other anti USA groups who only want to stymie personal rights, private property rights and any true progress! Use all our coal whereever possible! Build vast new hydroelectic plants and lakes! Drill on every possible acre where ther may be oil or natural gas!!

By TomG

July 24, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

I believe Fulton County Superior Court Judge Thelma Wyatt Cummings Moore exceeded her authority. Her statement about the Supreme Court’s decision was incorrect. So this comes down as just another LOCAL judge dictating her personal views to another government entity.

By T.J.

July 24, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

So zeke, I guess “personal rights” doesn’t include freedom of speech? Maybe we could build special camps for those pinko tree huggers, where they could concentrate on how they are hurting America.

By Fruitless Objections

July 24, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

T.J.: would that be a “concentration” camp, Adolph?

By Julie

July 24, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

I oppose the Longleaf/Dynegy coal burner and will continue to work to stop it from being built. There’s no such thing as “clean coal”, and “gasification” is a ploy by the coal companies to keep coal in the energy mix. You can’t sequester carbon and inject it into the ground without contaminating your water supply. Nobody’s done it, and those who previously planned to try it are finally seeing that it won’t work, is too expensive, and that they need clean water much more than they need cheap coal power. Coal is over - you may as well realize that. Let’s move to real, actual, renewable energy sources, like solar and wind power. Every building should be equipped with solar photovoltaic panels to provide energy. The sun is free. The utility companies are so very afraid that they won’t make the profits that they are accustomed to making and want to keep on making, that they are scared to death that many of us will go solar. Don’t be fooled by their insistence that there’s not enough sun — there’s plenty and it’s free, clean fuel. And it’s becoming more and more affordable. The utility companies are dragging their feet, trying to hold on as long as possible to their big profits.
Would you rather keep on paying 4,5, 6 dollars a gallon for gas for your car, or plug it into your solar-provided energy at your home? Duh. Longleaf/Dynegy picked Early County, Ga because it’s a poor, rural county and they thought they could get away with siting it there. They THOUGHT the residents were too poor and would not be able to organize any opposition to their dirty plan.
For your information, coal burners don’t hire the locals to work - they bring in their own workers, so get off the jobs arguments. The locals simply don’t get those jobs; they might get the ditch-digger, minimum-wage, no-benefits jobs during construction, then they are kicked to the side. This is from a person who knows, who has been through this whole scenario personally. All these utility companies use the same old lame, untrue PR to try to convince you that they are just wonderful, and clean, but if you just investigate a little, you’ll find out that coal is dirty, and it is not clean. Think of your childrens’ health, please.

By The Future

July 24, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

Folks need to work. Coal, though at the expense of community health and climate stability, will create jobs in Georgia. Some 120 jobs really.

I, though, oppose the plant. Not because of the 946 lives that coal plants prematurely end in Georgia every year, or the tens of thousands of asthma attacks they cause, but because 120 jobs IS NOT ENOUGH.

I oppose the plant because, as a young person ready to enter the job market, I am concerned for my future. I see a failing economy dependent on rising fossil fuel prices and I think no more. For every 1 million dollars spent on energy efficiency, you create 21 more jobs then on a coal fired power plant.

Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy have the potential to create literally millions of jobs in our state/region, from manufacturing to consulting, installations to public relations. Jobs with high salaries and security, that can’t be shipped overseas. Jobs that work to protect health and environment rather then depending on its distruction.

I oppose the plant because folks need work

By The Future

July 24, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

Folks need to work. Coal, though at the expense of community health and climate stability, will create jobs in Georgia. Some 120 jobs really.

I, though, oppose the plant. Not because of the 946 lives that coal plants prematurely end in Georgia every year, or the tens of thousands of asthma attacks they cause, but because 120 jobs IS NOT ENOUGH.

I oppose the plant because, as a young person ready to enter the job market, I am concerned for my future. I see a failing economy dependent on rising fossil fuel prices and I think no more. For every 1 million dollars spent on energy efficiency, you create 21 more jobs then on a coal fired power plant.

Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy have the potential to create literally millions of jobs in our state/region, from manufacturing to consulting, installations to public relations. Jobs with high salaries and security, that can’t be shipped overseas. Jobs that work to protect health and environment rather then depending on its distruction. We don’t get those jobs by investing in coal.

I oppose the plant because folks need work

By AH

July 24, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Coal is still way cheaper that solar and wind. And it’s much more dependable. This plant will provide more jobs than just 120 and to make the argument that the only jobs it would create are at the plant is a gross misunderstanding of how economics work. There is always a cascade effect centered around infrastructure sources like a power generating source. This has been true since man learned how to generate power from something other than his own muscle.

To also make the argument that it is to dirty for the environment or that it kill 1000 people every year is also specious logic. Unless your a coal miner with black lung then there is very little health impact from the coal industry.

The Future - If your looking to go out into the job market then you need to start looking at reality and not sci fi make believe about energy. I remember before I went to college how every science class would reiterate that we only had 20 years of fossil fuels left on the entire plant. That is probable the same line of BS that you were handed. It just isn’t true we have a least 100 years of fossil fuels if not many more. One day we will leave these fuel sources behind but it is not today. Wind and Solar are just not good enough that has been proven time and time again. They are a good supplement now but they are not the answer to our future needs. Nuclear may or may not be the answer, I don’t think it is either. When we find the next power source you will know it because it will make the transition painlessly and without a loss in the quality of life we currently have.

We are poised to make that next transition in power generation but we can’t wait for it we have to use what we have now.

By smart is good

July 24, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

Only a moron would think that building a coal-fired power plant is a good idea.

By AH

July 24, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

No only a moron would think it is a better idea to sit in the dark at night with out heating or air conditioning, eating potatoes and dirt because that is all they could grow on their own and their horse can’t get them to the nearest market.

This plant is a good plant. It only has positive effects on the state of GA, EVEN ENVIRONMENTALLY. In the long run newer cleaner power plants will phase out the older dirtier plants thus cleaning the air, land, and water.

By Citizen of the World

July 24, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

We need to quit building coal-fired plants in this country and refocus our efforts on conservation and clean, renewable energy sources.

And we need to quit blowing the tops off mountains in West Virginia to get to the coal. How would you feel about coal if they were blowing the tops off our mountains here in Georgia to get to it?

There’s a good documentary on this called Kilowatt Ours if you want to get educated on the true cost of coal as an energy source.

By AH

July 24, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

take a trip to West Virgina - trust me they don’t mind “blowing” the tops off of mountains to get the coal.

Don’t watch slanted documentaries take a trip. As a child I really benefited every summer when we took a cross country trip to visit relatives in a different place each year. I didn’t appreciate it at the time but it gave me a good perspective on how much America really has, in terms of human and natural resources. As I visit these places some twenty years later I enjoy seeing the changes and contrasting them with what I remember as a child. I also enjoy quizzing friends and relative about their states. This is a much better way to learn about reality than watching documentaries.

FYI - strip mining in this country is much rarer than some would lead you to believe. And when you look at the scale of these operations they are extremely minimal to the benefits that we get from them.

By cc

July 24, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Poster, AH, you are aptly named. The fact that you are so interested in the subject leads me to believe that you are employed by LS Power. Are you the Longleaf project manager?

By Arillius

July 24, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

I don’t think it’s as simple as sitting in the dark or I don’t think it’s as simple as sitting in the dark or ignoring our energy needs, I would like to see another solution. We should first look back at Southern Companies history. They talked Georgians into going Nuclear, allowing the Vogel reactor to be built for Georgia’s future. Since it was built, the “excess” has been sold to Florida while old coal plants are still operating. Not only are they operating, but 2 of them are in the top 3 worst polluting power plants in the U.S. They skirted regulations put in place that require lower emissions as maintenance is done by doing maintenance just below the trigger and repeated this over and over allowing them to spew the same amount of pollution they always have. Southern Company is working for stockholders just as one would expect. What we need are state representatives that will work for US and stop any new plants from being built in Georgia without the closure of other high pollution plants. They should also place caps on what can be sold out of state from Vogel and hold them to their past commitment to sell us the cleaner nuclear generated power. We can’t be so naive and trust that they will close other higher pollution emitting plants; they won’t if it interferes with profit, they have proven that in their history. They are a in the business to make a profit, not look after our concerns about pollution we have to remember this as well as their history! We have to look at this past, present, and future.

To the person who wrote “Unless your a coal miner with black lung then there is very little health impact from the coal industry.” You are just grossly wrong and I can’t think of a nicer way to say it.

By The Future

July 24, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

AH-

Enegry Efficiency is the cheapest, cleanest, fastest way to meet energy demand, and creates more jobs then the lifecycle of coal.

I say 120 jobs in Georgia, because ALL of Georgia’s coal (like our uranium, oil, and natural gas) is imported into this state, thus jobs outside transportation are not in Georgia.

I was born in, and spend the first half of my still young life in southwestern Virginia. Coal country. Strip mining IS the dominant form of mining today, and Mountain Top Removal Mining is becomng the majority of that.

Whats SCI-FI, is to believe that coal is anything but filthy, risky, and a bad business decision for our state.

We need to meet demand, lets meet it today while creating thousands of jobs (conservative estimates say 17,000 jobs, others say millions) by investing similar amounts of capital into energy efficiency, and then prioritize renewables to create in-state jobs.

Investments in Coal today, lock us out of solutions tommorrow *(the plant wouldn’t start providing power, at best, until 2011)

By AH

July 24, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Sorry that’s not the case. I’m just interested in this project because I enjoy the quality of life we have here in the US and know that we can improve it. One of the step to improve it is the create energy independence with newer cleaner power plants.

Supplemented with wind, solar, hydroelectric, etc…

By Rebecca

July 24, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Jobs do not have to be at odds with our lungs. Renewable energy plants and energy efficiency programs also generate jobs and, compared with coal, are better aligned with the emerging global energy economy. Please note that the emissions from coal-fired power plants can be transported quite a long way, so the question of dangerous fine particles is not just an issue for the proposed plant’s neighbors. And the fact that Atlanta area residents are living with Plant Bowen does not mean that they are not also living with its negative health effects (along with, yes, our awful roadway emissions). Finally, I would like to add that the Early County coal plant would contribute significantly to greenhouse gas emissions in Georgia, which means we should assess the health and economic costs of climate change in any analysis of the plant’s costs and benefits. The American Academy of Pediatrics recently issued a strong statement urging swift action to address climate change because of the anticipated negative health consequences for children (and for all of us). For all these reasons, we need to generate new green jobs, not coal jobs.

Rebecca

By Matt

July 24, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

The only problem with these “free” energy sources is that they are not free. If someone can tell me exactly how you can get “free” energy, please let me know. Photovoltaics are not even in the running for mass electricity generation. Arizona is considering building a 250 MW solar plant in the desert. No one solar energy plant has ever been built to this scale. China is building a 100 MW solar plant at a cost of 766 Million USD. Based on math (12 x 0.766 billion), to get an equivalent sized plant, The Southern Company would have to invest roughly 9.1 Billion USD to equal the output of one coal plant.

Now here is the real problem with current renewable energy technology, it cannot generate the amount of energy that fossil fuel can create, nor can you store energy for sustained use (ie night time). We’re talk 10+ years to even develop this technology and even then it will be 10+ years after that to be added to the grid (due to permitting and construction). We need to continue our research until we can get the cost of renewables down to the level of fossil fuels. From a DOE presentation given on solar power, currently, coal power generation cost 5-7 cents per KWH, Solar cost 12-14 cents per KWH. In order to convert to solar power, your power bill will double, its not some sort of speculative “Republican” myth. Under current DOE estimates, we will not be able to use solar energy for mass energy generation until roughly 2030, when plants can come online and the cost is down the realm of coal power generation. If you wish to have your cake and eat it too, please compromise between needs of today and wants of tomorrow.

By FaceItNow

July 24, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

This isn’t a question for just Early and Bartow Counties in Georgia. The carbon emissions from the plant (even though reduced) will contribute substantially to the global problem of climate change. If we don’t draw the line on carbon emissions, who will? I don’t want my great grandchildren to curse me for not having the guts to do what’s right and clean up the mess we’ve made. If we don’t, everyday in 2100 will be a “red alert” smog day…if we’re LUCKY. It’s much more likely they’ll simply call it “a poisonous atmosphere”. Great place for your decendants to live, eh?

By Matt

July 24, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Rebecca,

Please explain how we can add the cost of “global warming” if we cannot prove how carbon dioxide emissions are “warming” the earth? Please read the IPCC report and not just the summary, and you will learn that there is no conclusive evidence that proves that carbon dioxide emissions are causing “global warming.”

I’m curious to know if you know how many pounds of carbon are in our atmosphere right above Georgia. Let me do a quick set of calculations for you:

There are roughly 57,000 square miles of Georgia, taking an estimate of 20 miles of atmosphere (atmosphere that effects our weather), creates a volumetric “space” of georgia 1.14 Million Cubic Miles. Based on Wikipedia’s CO2 in the Earth’s atmosphere, our concentration of CO2 by volume comes out to 0.0384%. I would continue the math, but the stoicometry (sp?) comes out to be quiet long, and I recommend that you go it for yourself to verify my numbers, but I find the total carbon tonnage to be: 2.63x10^13 lbs C above Georgia. In comparison 186000 tons of C equates to 3.73x10^8 lbs of C generated by one plant. There are 5 orders of magnitude between those numbers; in order to double the concetration of carbon above GA, it would take roughly 7 Thousand years.

By AH

July 24, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

It was bound to happen. Here we all were having a respectful conversation about the impact or lack of impact of building a new coal power plant in Early county and someone has to come in with the “global warming” canard.

So sad, so sad…. : (

By Dave

July 24, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

The wind doesn’t always blow and the sun doesn’t always shine in GA. We want people to keep coming to our state so our taxes will be lower, and when folks get here, they don’t want to pay higher energy costs.

The problem is that while folks want to be more green (of which I agree with), we also are facing the challenges of keeping the lights on and avoiding brownouts (or worse blackouts.)

I certainly don’t have all the solutions, but I do know that we won’t be able to do it through energy efficiency alone. We must have nuclear, biomass and all solutions on the table to meet our state’s energy needs.

By wind

July 24, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

check out pickensplan.com for wind energy.

By Big Stick

July 24, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

This society needs to come to grips with the fact that sitting as a Superior Court Judge does not in fact make one an expert on everything; somethings perhaps, but not everything. The Honorable, Fulton County Superior Court Judge Thelma Wyatt Cummings Moore based her ruling on a personal interpretation of a study she clearly does not understand and in all likelihood, is not prefessionally competent to interpret.

Its always exciting to listen to the pre-experienced collegiate thinkniks who are planning the “new” utopia, soon to be showing at a theatre near you….just watch the DNC convention for the previews.

The regressives like to pooh pooh anyone with facts to difficult for their basic math skills. Calling individuals with more than a lick of sense morons is definitely the way to go. I know - let’s let the government take care of it - now I feel soooooooo much better…………

By Robert

July 24, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

Unlike the author of the original opinion article, I currently live in Early County, and have done so for many years. I had my chance to move away and take more lucrative jobs , but refused to do so becaus I love this community and the people in it.

From the very first day that LS Power proposed to build this inferior plant, many locals begged them to consider using IGGC technology. They flatly refused, saying that they “couldn’t make a profit” if they did so…. “and besides” the LS Power official added…”it’s not up to you…the Georgia EPD will decide that.” These words are quite disturbing since it was brought out in court that LS Power helped the GA EPD write their own air permit.

With the help of the local newspaper and local officials they continue to spread their “clean coal” propaganda, even though the numbers showed that they would emit outrageous amounts of carbon dioxide, sulphor dioxide, and worst of all mercury. Well that arrogance has come home to roost with Judge Moore’s ruling.

The construction of this plant has nothing to do with providing jobs for Early County….it’s about lining LS Power’s pocket.

By Keith

July 24, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

I don’t care if the plant is built or not, but I can’t understand how this judge in Atlanta has legal standing for any more say than me or any other voter/citizen. The dictatorship of the judicial branch must end. Bibb County has been ordered to build a new courthouse by the local superior court judges and I’m looking forward to concrete floors and block walls in their new digs.