Opinion Talk

By Copyleft

July 22, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this

Economists are always unhappy when other priorities than maximizing marketplace efficiency get in the way—you know, pesky things like justice and fairness. These things have no place in a free market!

Which is why we’re in charge of capitalism, and not the other way around. Minimum-wage increases can only hurt us if we continue to allow corporations to use the illegal-alien dodge to avoid actually paying a decent wage.

By Soccer Fan

July 22, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

Sounds like the earned income credit is a subsidy to business owners for the purpose of providing CHEAP LABOR…just like the hiring of illegal aliens.

By Mike

July 22, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this

The old joke is that you put 2 economists in a room and get 3 different opinions.

The Republican (corporate) arguement to increasing the minimum wage is that businesses will tend to hire fewer people, because they will operate with the same revenue. This is a bogus argument, as they need that many people to operate, otherwise they would have had a smaller staff before the minimum wage hike.

As wages rise for the affluent, mechanisms like minimum wage increases help the less affluent keep up.

By Chaz

July 22, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

“Low-income families”… Once again, it’s necessary to point out that the minimum wage wasn’t meant to, won’t and can’t provide enough income for a family. Anyone so unskilled as to be working minimum wage shouldn’t be spawning. Grow up.

By Pat

July 22, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

It never fails. Everytime Democrats do something to “help” lower income people, it winds up having the opposite effect.
Change: It’s what’s left in your pocket after Democrats raise your taxes.
http://www.cafepress.com/DefiningChange

By Fred

July 22, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

Since you’re so wise and prescient, well let you define “justice and fairness” for all the world. You can then start fixing it, too.

Fact is, free markets don’t give you what you expect. They give you what you deserve. Sooner you accept that fact, and mind your own business, the better.

After you’re done earning your fortune, you’re free to give away all of your resources you worked so hard for - to fix the world and such.

By Copyleft

July 22, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Wrong, Fred: “Free markets” give as little as they can get away with while favoring those who can successfully cheat and exploit the rest.

Smart workers will realize who the enemy is and what’s in their best interests—including limiting corporate power, holding executives accountable, and forming unions.

By kim

July 22, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

I would like to challenge any person that is opposed to this increase to actually live a month on this wage. Either put up or shut up and spend a week with a normal person who didnt have chances to go forward in life and was more concerned about feeding the family

By Mike

July 22, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Anyone so unskilled as to be working minimum wage shouldn’t be spawning. Grow up. - Chaz I’m really glad you’re not running the world. Who are you to decide who can and cannot have children, especially in a country like America. That is truely an elitist comment, to decide who should the ability to procreate based on income level.

Back to the discussion, I would argue that economic conditions like we have today are exactly why we need to have increases in the minimum wage. By definition, any income earned by the “less affluent” are going to be spent (food, housing, clothing; the basic neccessities). Lower income people by definition don’t have the ability to save. Therefore, the money goes back into the economy immediately, and increases the “turns” (monetary effect, it means how many times the money changes hands in the economy) which should help depressed economic conditions like we’re experiencing now.

Certainly, in the past 8 years, we’ve seen first hand what happens when we allow the truely affluent (read the top 1%) to constrict the money supply. The so-called “trickle-down” effect of Republican economics simply doesn’t happen anymore.

By CommunistAJC

July 22, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Minimum wage was never designed to be the sole income of anyone. It is meant as a starting point for people in the work place. If one can not grasp a skill then he/she can not blame anyone but themselves. I for one, am sick of hearing people play the victim card for their stupidity. I worked a minimum wage job when I was 16 and there were 30 year olds working the same job. They were lazy and unmotivated to anything in life except to do drugs. All I have to say on that.

By LOL 21

July 22, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

Free markets do give as little as they can get away with. That’s called efficiency. It’s the role of government to enforce fairness to prevent cheating and exploitation but that doesn’t mean tinkering with the operations of the free market by introducing artificial creations like the minimum wage. Enforcing fairness by preventing illegal alien labor is the way to go.

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Chaz, I’m with you buddy - because you’re right. These people should read “Atlas Shrugged”. I’ve been attending a book discussion on it, and it’s wonderful. It will take ten sessions to get through, due to the length of the book, so I doubt some of these fools have the ability (why they’re for living on minimum wage with no desire to “earn” a better wage) to read a 1,000 page book.

By ummm

July 22, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

Mike, I think Chaz’s point while certainly stated in a hard-hearted manner, is why would you bring a child into this world if you can’t provide for them? That’s about the height of irresponsibility.

By Get Real

July 22, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

The richest country in the world and we are debating $6.55/hr. Republicans argue that people should stop being lazy and find honest work, but what if you were laid off from a $13-15/hr job and are forced to work a minimum wage job as thats about the only employment hiring right now? Should a person not take it because “it was never designed to be the sole income of anyone. it is meant as a starting point for people in the work place.”

Work is work, and to say that someone is lazy or unmotivated because they work a minimum wage job in this economy is crazy. Especially when republicans opposed even raising the wage. I wonder what some of you would do if you found yourself working this kind of job through no fault of your own (layoffs, RIFs, plant closings) and what you would say then. Wasn’t this country built on compassion for the common man? IMO, its better than sitting at home doing nothing, and some of you would complain about that too. Is the free market setup to produce haves and have nots? The haves don’t want the have nots to HAVE anything. Screw em and get your order right is what you say.

Funny how this is supposed to be the Bible Belt and everyone supposedly goes to Church every Sunday and worship a higher power, but come Monday-Saturday some of you are the biggest hypocrites.

By CommunistAJC

July 22, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Get Real, Do you realize that the poorest people in this country eat better than ANY other country on Earth? Remember all those “poor” people from New Orleans? Remember all the government tax payer handouts they received? That went to plan didn’t it? Those idiots used our money to buy Prada purses from Phipps and other malls. Don’t give us this whinny poor is my baby crap. And, point the finger right back in your face moron. If you are sinless and blameless then cast the first stone. I highly doubt you’ve EVER helped the poor. Most poor homeless people like living on the street cause they can make more money that way. You can feel sorry for them all day long. I for one, work for a living and expect everyone else to work. Get it?

By WhitneyH

July 22, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Crack is Whack!

Whitney

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Get Real, charity is supposed to be voluntary, not mandated by the government. Life is not fair, and this country wasn’t founded on “fairness”, but survival of the fittest. I’ve experienced a lay-off in the past and have worked two low-paying jobs after having made six-figures. You do what you have to do, and believe me, learning to cut back in the hard times builds character. Therefore, I respect those that will work at minimum-wage, but don’t feel sorry for those that choose (yes, you have a choice) to spend their lives working low-paying jobs. Those folks do NOT have a right to demand more from those that advance in our society. That’s where the shear laziness comes in.

By zeke

July 22, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Copyleft.

You do not seem to understand that every time you liberal socialist put forth some misguided policy to promote fairness and justice for the less fortunate, the poor, the children, it only has the reverse effect! Look at all the entitlements! Have they done anything to advance people? NO! Look at the continued expansion of unemployment benefits. Pretty soon, people will not have to work, they can just draw unemployment forever. There are plenty of jobs out there. May not be what you want. But, why not be productive and work at one until a job you would really want comes along? Makes sense to me. And, unions? Unions are an offshoot of the lefts enthrallment with the Russian communists revolution, and, the misguided idea that that was the perfect society! From each according to his ability, to each according to his need! WHAT A REVOLTING THEORY! Woked fine for about 70 years until it bankrupted! Worked fine as long as Lenin, Stalin and others murdered anyone who did not agree! Hopefully the voting public will have a light go off and will save this country, us, me, and yes, you from that type fate!

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Communist, you’re right. I’d like to take the homeless in this city to Costa Rica so they could see what hard-working laborers live like. These people know what physical work is, and they live in shacks with bars over their windows because theft is their major crime down there. When you live in hand-made, cardboard houses, then come and complain to me. Those “working” people live in worse conditions than those down on Peachtree begging me for money when I attend an event in the area.

By Chaz

July 22, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Mike, it isn’t about me deciding who can have babies, it’s about having the maturity to realize that it’s a huge responsibility and takes more than $6.55/hr. to provide food, clothing, shelter and education for another life… for 20 years or more. It is in fact the height of irresponsibility to presume that others will take care of your kids, and that’s why we have so many abandoned kids and families out there.

Elitist? Once again, grow up.

By Get Real

July 22, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

I’m a moron huh Commie. I’ll put the conservative namecalling aside. Just because someone eats better than most countries doesn’t mean they’re eating. The topic of discussion was the minimum wage so I’ll stick to that. I would also rather see someone working any particular job than not working at all, as that drains MY tax dollars as well. You don’t know me so don’t ASSume that I’ve never worked with the poor. I could name the Atlanta Union Mission and the Atlanta Food Bank as two places that I’ve volunteered at numerous times. To say that most homeless people like living on the street is ‘moronic’ in itself, to which I won’t even respond to. You probably didn’t even know that half the homeless people in this city are VETERANS of the military. Yeah, they sure are some lazy people. I found that out doing the volunteer work you say I’ve probably never done.

Minimum wage is not a taxpayer handout, so your attempt to use New Orleans as some sort of correlation is absurd. We’re talking about increasing the wage of WORKING people in a society where the government and corporations throw billions of dollars away in waste, but don’t want to increase an HONEST minimum wage by a few cents. Do you get it? Or are you one of those people who oppose welfare until you’re in need of it.

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Good points Zeke. I’ve just started reading the book, “Liberal Facism”. Good explanation of the unionization of corporatations and how it keeps a lower class lower. In this day and time, there is NO excuse for not being able to advance yourself. Our government schools have lowered the standards to a point where anybody can get a so-called education. Thanks to affirmative action (reverse discrimination) people that aren’t even qualified for some positions can get them, so don’t tell me about “fairness”. You want “fairness”, then we should mandate a percentage of whites to play in the NFL and NBA. Hell, those guys are given positions to help the inner-city juveniles, and they can’t even stay out of trouble. Just goes to show that all the money in the world doesn’t make the person, now does it? Look at Vick the Prick as an example. It’s going to be hard for me to get off this topic, so go ahead and just try to debate me on the topic of lazy-asses. Just go ahead!

By Chaz

July 22, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Oh, and as far as my ‘running the world’, no thanks. It isn’t me wanting to tell employers what they can pay their employees, mandating coverages, demanding new entitlements, robbing Peter to pay Paul, etc. etc. etc. Please, go have a family - if you’re prepared to take care of them.

I know, that’s crazy talk.

By gttim

July 22, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

“Get Real, Do you realize that the poorest people in this country eat better than ANY other country on Earth?”

I love it when Wingnuts start using the argument that we exploit our people less than other countries. Kind of like the we torture less than other countries argument.

The Walton kids make billions a year off poor working families because they exploit them, and the taxpayers- through tax breaks and teaching their employees to sign up for Medicaid. But it is OK because because our poor people do not have to eat dirt like the poor people of other countries. I am sorry, but I evidently think more highly of our country than the wingnut Republicans who applaud the poor being exploited so the wealthy can make more money. Our citizens deserve much better than that. All our citizens deserve the chance to make a living wage. It is unpatriotic to suggest otherwise! If minimum wage controls help with this, as they do, wonderful!

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Hey Chaz, when it’s your tax money going to pay for those on welfare that can’t afford those perpetual offspring, then yesl, you should have a right to decide who’s having those babies. I think our government would do us all a favor by limiting each person to one mistake, then the welfare goes away.

By Oh Please

July 22, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

Kim-

Don’t start with the “they didn’t have a chance to move forward”…..I am sick of everyone having pity on someone who WON’T do better for themselves. If they can’t afford to live, then why do they have families????

Everyone has a “chance” to get a higher education. That is why they make grants, scholarships, etc. If you get pregnant in highschool and drop out, it isn’t MY fault you opened your legs. If you started college to just party and never finished, not MY problem that your priorities are wrong.

People work hard for their education in order to do BETTER for themselves. And now you are making the point that because someone was lazy and didn’t do it, we should pay for them to have more money. I don’t think so.

Send the illegals back, so the people “who didn’t have a chance” has more of an opportunity to work. The fact is, we WON’T do those jobs. Americans feel entitled to start off at the top…what happened to hard work??? Starting from the bottom and working up?? Educating yourself so you can move up???

By elfy

July 22, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

The trait successful people have in common is they think they control their own destiny. Therefore, planning, hard-work, and perseverence will pay off. Unsuccessful people tend to think they are at the mercy of outside forces. Therefore, effort is pointless because things are constantly “happening to them” to set them back.

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

The word, “earn” replaces “deserve”. If a coporation exploits people by providing them a job, then let the exploitation begin. I’ve never heard so much psycho-babble in my life, and that includes some femi-Nazis I know. It’s not even a corporation’s responsibility to provide jobs. When people say they lost their job, it wasn’t theirs to begin with. It belongs to the company that chose an individual to fill the position. This mentality of “owing” people something is a confused mindset of what this country is about. I had no idea there were so many that don’t get the concept of capitalism, which is indeed, the backbone of this great country. Our government was NOT designed to take from those that make a living to give to those that don’t. You can’t mandate charity.

By Whatever

July 22, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Republicans believe that there is this equal playing field, and if everyone studies hard and follows the rules then they will succeed. Meanwhile in the real world, kids who do study hard and even get straight A’s can afford the tuition for college even with scholarships. They’re some of the ones working these minimum wage jobs, but they’re just lazy because they couldn’t afford college. All states don’t have a HOPE program, but thats probably the students fault. Even though Sonny cut the entire education budget by 5%, thats funny being that Georgia needs all the money it can get for this last in education state. That is the foundatino to getting ahead, and unless you come from a well off family it is difficult to pay for college. Even for middle class families.

Everyone working these jobs isn’t lazy and shiftless as some of you would like to believe, makes it easier to show no compassion. The wage should be increased, which is the topic of discussion.

By Tell the Truth

July 22, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

Barbara, welfare was ended in the Clinton Administration. So welfare HAS gone away. Thanks

By Mike

July 22, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Chaz I will grant you that I am glad that I don’t have to subsist and raise my children on $6.55/hr. Can you imagine having to live like that? And yet, people do. Every day. Somehow, they get by. They can’t afford things that (I assume) you and I certainly can.

What I do know is that the Constitution is supposed to guarrantee us the “pursuit of happiness”. Maybe not actually being happy, but at least the ability to pursue it. And I object to anyone making the arbitrary decision to allow procreation, as family is where true happiness is derived. Mmy children (usually) make me very happy. Who are you to decide their fate?

Elitist? Once again, grow up. You may not like being labeled an elitist, but it was certainly a “Let them eat cake” remark.

LOL 21 said Enforcing fairness by preventing illegal alien labor is the way to go. My friend, there were poor people in this country long before there were illegal immigrants.

I really think you don’t understand why we have a minimum wage. Prior to that, in the 20’s corporations used to hire people for “slave” type wages. Because they could get away with it. Franklin Roosevelt established the minimum wage as a way to estabilsh a minimum standard of living. The right-wing of this country has allowed it to diminish over time, which is why it’s now harder than ever to get by. If there were no minimum wage, do you think companies would pay even that much? Those people would get pennies per hour.

By CommunistAJC

July 22, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

gttim, Then why do so many people apply to work at Walmart? If Walmart is so bad you’d think that no one would want to work there. At least this wing nut understands what a freeloader is. I come from a long line of tough love hard working people. You’re whining is comical and pointless. You live in this hippie fantasy world of evil corporations yet you can not provide ANY proof that poor people are being exploited. I’m sure that fine arts degree is serving you well. Speaking of serving, go get me a cup of $5 coffee at Starbucks. Moron.

By CommunistAJC

July 22, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Tell the Truth, Uh, it was the GOP that forced Clintons hand. He actually wanted welfare expanded. And no, it has not ended. Just look at New Orleans or watch BET.

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Some seem to have not read everything I’ve written. Let me repeat, I’ve had to work two low-paying jobs, simultaneously, due to downsizing from an extremely well-paying job. I humbled myself, did it as a TEMPORARY fix, and am back in full force. As I previously stated, I respect people that work minimum-wage jobs. I don’t respect those that use it as tool to continue down that road, which is what minimum wage does. FDR wasn’t the first (Woodrow Wilson was) Liberal Facist, but he set the welfare state on a path that we’re seeing the results of now. Bill Clinton did NOT eliminate welfare. Just ask those that keep pumping out illegitimate kids. Just go down to a welfare office and see what’s happening. There is a price for freedom, and it’s called personal responsibility, period.

By The Forgotten Messiah

July 22, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

This is what I say to you this day: Soon a gallon of gas and the minimum age will be as one. $6.55 per gallon of gas, (and per gallon of milk). Food, energy, minimum wage. Get a horse. Get a bike. Walk. take a bus. a train. a motorscooter.

We need to get 100 mpg just to break even, and I dont think that’s happening any time soon.

Meanwhile society splits further in the the haves, and the half-wits.

By middleoftheroadman

July 22, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

I’d like to see some comeuppance to the companies such as airlines, that have outsourced jobs to places like India. America loses jobs, but there is no retribution.

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

I would think that with increases in gas prices and groceries, there would lie within someone, an element of wanting to advance to a level of affording these basics. There are several factors involved in the inflation of basic needs, and salaries aren’t rising to meet those needs in the near future. Therefore, the pursuit in advancing careers and becoming more educated will be a necessity. There are no guarantees, but opportunities to take advantage of. I’m tire of the “I can’t” attitude. My parents grew up poor, put themselves through school, got married, and waited six years to have children when they could afford them. Dad worked hard and was a founding member of one of the nicest country clubs in his area. Who would have thought someone from his background could have penetrated that type of environment? Proves it can be done. They put me through college, and I’ve survived ever since. My parents grew up in a time where they didn’t have any of the resources of advancement kids or young adults do today, so there is no excuse.

By Tell the Truth

July 22, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Nice one Communist. BET, right. Not Country Music TV, the Military Channel, the Discovery Channel, or anything. Just BET. Regardless of your juvenile posts, I was clearly stating that welfare has ended. Doesn’t matter who ended it. If you want to go there, Bush opposed the new GI Bill but he’s the one that signed it into law. So I guess his hand was forced as well.

By Chaz

July 22, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Let’s try this again MIke… I’m not making “arbitrary decisions” as to who can have kids. I’m saying (what should be obvious to any responsible person) that actions have consequences and one of the surest ways to impede your ‘pursuit of happiness’ is to drive yourself (and your family) into poverty by having kids you aren’t prepared to care for. And while kids are a blessing, it will hardly make you happy to watch them subsist because you can’t provide for their needs. Anyone who can’t make more than minimum wage can’t expect to do that.

It’s not about your happiness, it’s about theirs.

By Tom

July 22, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

There appears to be another forgotten angle to this discussion.

People are frequently paid based on the employer’s ability to replace them. Do a job that other people can’t or won’t do, but needs to be done, and you’ll make more than the person that works in a job that is relatively easy to fill.

Artificially inflating the pay rate for a job may not necessarily lead to job cuts or fewer hirings but it will absolutely make an employer choosier about who to hire. The people who need a break become the last people the employer wants to consider.

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

If Obama becomes President, you won’t see jobs coming back here. He’s already stated he’s going to raise payroll taxes, along with any other he possibly can. You’ll see more of a decline in jobs when that happens. If the government stopped trying to rape corporate America and provide some tax incentives, such as other countries do, then you’d see a difference in hiring practices here. The more Socialist we become, the worse off you’re going to be.

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

If Obama becomes President, you won’t see jobs coming back here. He’s already stated he’s going to raise payroll taxes, along with any other he possibly can. You’ll see more of a decline in jobs when that happens. If the government stopped trying to rape corporate America and provide some tax incentives, such as other countries do, then you’d see a difference in hiring practices here. The more Socialist we become, the worse off you’re going to be.

By Mike

July 22, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Barbara you are mixing your metaphors. Liberal and Facist are oxymorons within your context. Certainly liberals are not concerned with the welfare of corporations, which is exactly part of the definition of Facism. Your pro-corporate stance is a lot closer to Facism than I am. Please refer to me as a liberal communist. Thank you very much. (for those of you too obtuse to understand, that was humor).

I’m very glad to hear that you were able to recover from having to work minimum wage positions, to whatever it is you do now. And I’m sure it was because you have math skills, or linguistics abilities; a higher IQ (Atlas Shrugged isn’t for dummies, just right wing conservatives like you) or some other abilities which you could parlay to the position you are now in. The problem is, many, many people work those 2 full-time minimum wage jobs because they don’t have the abilities that you do. However, they do still have families to clothe/feed and a minimum standard of living which society mandates that they should at least be able to meet.

What bothers you more? That someone has to work for $6.55 an hour, or that Corporate CEO salaries have risen from an average of 29 times the avarage worker in 1970 to over 400 times the average worker now? The upper end of society looks after itself. Those people never look at prices. If they want something, they get it. The middle class (or what there is left of it) usually gets annual raises which tends to keep up with inflation (albeit not under the Bush administration). No one looks after the rest of society, which is why mechanisms like minimum wage are necessary.

George Carlin used to describe the differences between liberals and conservatives like this: People and property. If you’re more concerned about people, you’re probably a liberal. If you’re more concerned about property, you’re likely a conservative. I’ve always thought that society should be judged by how the least uf us is treated, or gets by. I care about people, which is why I’m proud that I’m a liberal.

By Buzzer

July 22, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Copyleft- you show your lack of education when you refer to the minimum wage article - like anything else it all boils down to supply and demand - if minimum wages go up the demand for labor will decrease - its that simple. it will cut out those that would otherwise have a job - If you want your justice and fairness, you will have to pay $15 for your next bigmac - are you willing to pay that? Justice and fairness are all good, each one of us has the opportunity to go to school and get an education. Some throw that opportunity way. that is fair, but not our problem when they complain. If you want communism try Russia or go visit your buddy chavez. I heard he is looking for a few supporters.

By Buzzer

July 22, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Copyleft- you show your lack of education when you refer to the minimum wage article - like anything else it all boils down to supply and demand - if minimum wages go up the demand for labor will decrease - its that simple. it will cut out those that would otherwise have a job - If you want your justice and fairness, you will have to pay $15 for your next bigmac - are you willing to pay that? Justice and fairness are all good, each one of us has the opportunity to go to school and get an education. Some throw that opportunity way. that is fair, but not our problem when they complain. If you want communism try Russia or go visit your buddy chavez. I heard he is looking for a few supporters.

By Buzzer

July 22, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Copyleft- you show your lack of education when you refer to the minimum wage article - like anything else it all boils down to supply and demand - if minimum wages go up the demand for labor will decrease - its that simple. it will cut out those that would otherwise have a job - If you want your justice and fairness, you will have to pay $15 for your next bigmac - are you willing to pay that? Justice and fairness are all good, each one of us has the opportunity to go to school and get an education. Some throw that opportunity way. that is fair, but not our problem when they complain. If you want communism try Russia or go visit your buddy chavez. I heard he is looking for a few supporters.

By Buzzer

July 22, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Copyleft- you show your lack of education when you refer to the minimum wage article - like anything else it all boils down to supply and demand - if minimum wages go up the demand for labor will decrease - its that simple. it will cut out those that would otherwise have a job - If you want your justice and fairness, you will have to pay $15 for your next bigmac - are you willing to pay that? Justice and fairness are all good, each one of us has the opportunity to go to school and get an education. Some throw that opportunity way. that is fair, but not our problem when they complain. If you want communism try Russia or go visit your buddy chavez. I heard he is looking for a few supporters.

By Homegrown genius

July 22, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

“WILL THE MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE BACKFIRE?”

Are you kidding? An increase from $6.15/hour to a WHOPPING $6.55-an-hour! Man-oh-man! This GIGANTIC WAGE INCREASE is going to damn near make millionaires of minimum wage workers everywhere. Can you say EARLY RETIREMENT? Just go ahead and give each minimum wage employee a bank why don’t cha? LOL

Seriously though. Just look at the current stellar economic conditions we live in. This minimum wage increase won’t matter because there aren’t to be jobs of ANY WAGE. Unless you’re a multimillionaire who is in no way, shape or form connected to real estate, banking or transportation, no matter now much education you’ve had, we’re all probably going to be fighting it out over the scant few jobs that will be left that will probably be minimum-wage, if we’re lucky. You can’t break the bank if all the banks are going belly up.

By Mike

July 22, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

And Chaz, what I’m saying is that isn’t your decision to make. A lot of them (like Barbara above) do work 2 full time minimum wage jobs (each) to make ends meet.

As I posted above, the upper class never worries about what it can afford. The middle class affords what it needs, and is usually able to put away a little. Usually because they have the ability to negotiate for raises and benefits. Those at the bottom of society don’t have that ability. If it weren’t for social programs like minimum wage, corporations would still be employing children in sweat shops for pennies.

By Tom

July 22, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

It might be wise to know what fascism actually is.

Merriam-Webster:

a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

If you’ll notice, there isn’t any direct or even indirect reference to corporations.

Now of course historically fascist states often had a synchronistic relationship because both side’s felt that it was in their best interests to align the power.

However, fascist state don’t need the initial support of corporations so long as they are able to create and sustain enough momentum that causes change in the corporate struggle.

And, in America, the true difference between Liberal and Conservative is in who you fear more. Liberals fear corporations while conservatives fear the goverment. Libertarians are smart enough to fear both (when either has too much power).

By Drew

July 22, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

From Merriam-Webster: Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

Substitute ‘government’ for ‘nation’ and there’s nothing there that can’t be applied to politically-correct liberalism as prescribed by the modern Democratic Party. (Okay, we’ll take out ‘dictatorial leader’ as hyperbole.) Liberal Fascism indeed.

By Mike

July 22, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Barbara when you say that He’s already stated he’s going to raise payroll taxes, along with any other he possibly can., that’s really not correct. You should read this As long as you make less than $227 thousand dollars, you should come out ahead under Obama.

Buzzer You seem to have a stuttering problem. My guess is all of that vitriol and bile within you seems to be ruining your health. My suggestion is that you stop listening to Rush Limbaugh and try actually talking (calmly) to someone of the opposing viewpoint.

By Chaz

July 22, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

(sigh) Mike, I never said it was. It’s responsibility vs. irresponsibility. Wisdom vs. whimsy. Make your choices and accept the consequences.

By MattATL

July 22, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Capitalism is the devil.

By demitrius

July 22, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Mike, There is nothing in the Constitution which permits the Federal Government to involve itself in a contract between an employer and employee. The salary or hourly wage should be agreed upon between the two parties and not subject to government approval. The minimum wage should be abolished, not raised. People should take their job skills and work ethic into the marketplace and compete with everyone else. If the bid for your services isn’t high enough, maybe that’s a broad hint that your services aren’t valuable enough. Time to improve. The marketplace should decide what someone should be paid, not the government.

By Mike

July 22, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Tom Mussolini himself used to refer to Facism as Corporatism.

And, in America, the true difference between Liberal and Conservative is in who you fear more. Liberals fear corporations while conservatives fear the goverment. Interesting definition. I tend to like it, except that I think conservatives only fear the government when it goes against their desires. Conservatives likes the military power our government exerts. However, in general, I do think corporations would do everything in their power to screw the little guy. History has proven that. We used to have sweat shops with poor working conditions for little money. I do believe that we need government to protect us from corporations, thru programs like minimum wage, Department of Labor setting minimum age requirements, EPA to protect us from corporations dumping toxic waste into our environment, etc.

By greg

July 22, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Mike, Since you care about people sooooo much and making all things FAIR….

Why not raise the minimum wage to $25 an hour???? Wouldnt it be great if everyone made at least $25 an hour??

I mean, its just that simple!!

By Oh Please

July 22, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Whatever-

No, not every state has the HOPE, but there are alternate solutions. Grants, government loans, hello? Yes, college is expensive, but you have to want to do it and pay the price or stop complaining about the wage you make.

If they raise across the board for cost of living, well, low income families are not the only ones living. I can understand that things happen (having a surprise pregnancy) but don’t fault the rest of us for what happens in your bed.

I know it is hard working in minimum wage jobs, I did it to work my way through COLLEGE….. But I learned how to appreciate what I had, and to do WITHOUT.

Take out a student loan, go to school, get a nice paying job and pay back your loan…what is so hard about that? Is it because you can’t give up cable and the internet in order to have a little breathing room in the pockets? Everyone is in debt from time to time, even for 30 years for those who have houses, but that doesn’t give anyone the right to a “feel sorry for” raise.

By Teacher

July 22, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

I think there should be minimum grades also. I dont think any student should make anything below a B. How can one expect to get a good job if they have F’s and D’s all over their transcripts!!!

We need fairness in the school - enough with all these students with knowledge getting the A’s and B’s….

no matter how much knowledge or skill a student has - they should earn nothing below a B…FAIRNESS FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Demitrius is correct, there is no reason the government should mandate any hourly wage a corporation has to pay someone. They can determine what is a fair wage by ability and supply and demand.

Tom, you are also correct regarding the term “facism” that is thrown around at random. The first two chapters of “Liberal Facism” delves into Mussolini’s “Italian Facism” and Hitler’s nationalist views. The word is quite contradictory, as it’s been associated with all types of governments through the years and can be related to both liberal and conservative ideas. Once we see Woodrow Wilson’s mindset as he emerged into the political arena (he was a lawyer and teacher beforehand), you see the roots of facism in this country. You also learn how it continues to relate to more of the socialist viewpoint, such as Obama’s. Obama is Hillary, except he’s a black man instead of a white woman. The demeanor is different, but the views are identical. The love of Marxism and Socialism permeates their agendas.

By Rickster

July 22, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

I am in support of raising the minimum wage to a reasonable amount to get people that are living on welfare, begging on the street and robbing people at gun-point back into the workforce.

Even if you disagree, don’t understand it, or don’t even belive it, in the mind of a deprived, desparaged and/or despserate individual, here’s the the reality of it all:

When Paco and the boys are now doing my job for $4 an hour when I was paid to do it for $10; when a carton of eggs cost $3, a loaf of bread $4 and a gallon of milk cost $5; when one way bus fare cost $3, or it cost me $4 for a gallon of gas to get to a job I don’t even have; and my rent is $750 a month; I ask you: what in the hell do you think I’m gonna to do to get the money to sustain the lives of me and my family? Don’t know? Can’t answer? Give up? Well I certainly can’t call daddy to “assist” me! And the bank sure as hell ain’t gonna give me a loan!! Let me answer the question for you: I’m either going to get public assistance or I’m gonna get it some other kind of way. Even if that means making it, faking it, or breaking into your house, apartment or business, popping your a*, and taking it, that’s what I’m going to do!

Listen people, until we all realize that other people not like us are in a mode of survival. Most people are trying to just survive from day to day. Therefore, they need an opportunity to make good of what could be available to them so they are without an excuse. Sure, some will smoke it, dope it or matbe even choke it. But $5 - $6 an hour is an excuse not to work! Hell, you can’t even afford to pay for condoms or birth- control pills making that!!!! I wouldn’t do it! And guess what, you wouldn’t either!!!!

I would much rather raise the minimum wage and get someone off public assitance and into the workforce than to keep giving them money, food and healthcare to do nothing!!!!

Therefore, give people $8, $9 even $10 per hour so they can earn a decent living in this country and pay their own way!! Im tiered of doing it for them!!!

And if you can’t get real with this issue, just be prepared to suffer directly or indirectly with the ones that are already suffering. Because guess what: that’s exactly what’s already starting to happen now!!!!

Just a comment………….

By dbm

July 22, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

It was a mistake ever to pass laws restricting immigration.

It was a mistake primarily because it violates our American principles of freedom and opportunity for all. It was also a mistake because such laws create practical problems, as has happened more and more with immigration. Forcing immigrants into illegal limbo makes a lot of the problems associated with immigration worse.

The best thing we as a country can do is to repeal all laws limiting immigration and stop punishing people who violated those laws.

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Rickster, if you’re concerned about not being able to afford condoms or birth control, then there’s a quick answer for you. Stop s#&*ing. Again, you certainly can be responsible to NOT bring more kids into this world that you can’t afford. As for stealing from others because you can’t afford things in life you want, the government is already helping you out with all the entitlement programs from my tax dollars. I agree with one thing, get the illegals out of here that have undercut hourly wages, and then the citizens of this country can determine what employers will have to pay them to get the jobs done. Value in the marketplace is what it’s about, not mandating what you want. That, sir, is the real issue.

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Illegals never should have been here in the first place. Illegal is lawbreaking, folks. They are continually draining our services financially, and not putting money back into society at the level they’re draining it. They are mooching off the taxpayers. America was NOT set up as the land of opportunity for illegals, but for its own citizens. They earn the opportunities once they become citizens. That’s the way it’s supposed to work.

By Rickster

July 22, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Hey Barbara,

I’ll stop s#&*ing when you stop breathing. How stupid can someone be to make a statement such as that?

That’s how easy it is for someone that has nothing else in life!!!

Come out of the parallel universerve you’re dreaming in!

To get someone to think on a level such as that is as stupid as playing the stock market with 50cents!

Now that’s a reality!!!!

You will never know the power of deprevity until you lose al hope in despair!!!

Put your brain in your heart and caite!!!!

By Mike

July 22, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

greg That’s a straw man arguement. That would be like (if we were discussing taxes) I were to say; why not just cut the tax rate to zero for everyone. Wouldn’t it be great if we all paid zero? I mean, its just that simple!! Even though as a right-winger, you don’t like paying taxes (any more than I do) we both understand that we need the services government provides. All we’re really disagreeing on is percentages.

Obviously, you can’t raise the minimum wage over the rate more skilled workers get. However, I don’t think that $6.55 is a livable wage, either. And frankly, I don’t understand why most of you are so worked up; my son is working at a Party City and is getting $8 an hour. I believe that most of the “minimum wage” people actually get the $8 in GA; not the $6.55.

By Oh Please

July 22, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

A lot of people on welfare don’t WANT to work, that is why they take it and abuse it.

I get sick of watching the people in line at the grocery store with two piles of food, one stack of milk, bread and cheese to be paid with the taxpayers money…the other stack including cigarettes, alcohol and beef jerky that is paid for out of the wad of cash they pull out of their pocket. (Could be 50 ones, but who cares, it is enough to pick up the whole tab)

Raising the minimum wage is not going to get people off welfare…..or make people pay their own health insurance and that of their family.

Rick, you sound like a !@#$% from the ghetto…you would seriously rob someone because you can’t afford YOUR rent payment? I know it happens everyday, but to outright admit that because you won’t do without, someone else will is extremely bold.

Turn off your cable, cancel your cell phone and magazine subscriptions and shut up. Don’t look at the rich and famous and call foul….whether they deserve to be in that position is not our place to judge, stop being jealous. I don’t make 6 figures, and I am not going to blame the people who do.

By greg

July 22, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Rickster, GIVING people $10 per hour so they can EARN a decent living is an oxymoron.

You PAY someone what their skills are worth…

You just cant GIVE or even PAY someone a made up wage and not expect economic consequences….Let me explain to you what happens when the minimum wage is raised. Prices for the goods and services provided by those workers RISE right along with their wages. If a person employs 100 people at $5.15 an hour and the minimum wage goes up to $6, then guess what? That means the hourly labor costs just went up $45. $45 an hour times 12 hours a day equals $540 a day. $540 a day times just 6 days a week for a year equals $168,480.

What do you think the employer is going to do now that his cost of doing business just went up $168,480 a year?

By Mike

July 22, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it - George Santayana

I sugest some of you read about the “good ole” days of Coolege and Hoover. Maybe you’d learn something about why & how we needed these laws & regulations to protect us. Unions evolved as a result of corporations running sweat shops. You’re looking at results and not understanding the process.

By Rickster

July 22, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

And the more I think about it, Barbara, to ask someone to stop s#&ing is just unimaginable! As a matter of fact, to ask a person to stop s#&ing is just downright incomprehensible!!

Everyone in America that is of age s#&’s! Even you s#&, Barbara, and I don’t even know you!!!

People all over the world are s#&*ing!

s#&ing has been around for eons. Adam & Eve s#&ed. Moses s#&ed. Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, they all s#&ed. Reagan s#&ed. Nixon s#&ed. Hell, even Jimmy Carter s#&ed! And even though Daddy Bush s#&ed up and had a son who s#&ed up the country, he s#&ed!!

When you can’t afford to go to a movie, or out eat, or to the lake or an amusement park.

So Barbara, to ask any human being to just stop s#&*ing is absolutely ridiculous!

Especially when they’re laying around all day not working!!!!!!!

Just another comment…….

By greg

July 22, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

Mike, In reply to: “Obviously, you can’t raise the minimum wage over the rate more skilled workers get. “

Why not? Wouldnt everyone be able to afford more things? Is that not a good living wage?

Maybe you are just seeing the flaws in your own argements! I’m glad I could help you come around!!!!

By Mike

July 22, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

greg You’re starting to understand something. It’s about being able to maintain some kind of standard of living versus inflation. The elite 1% don’t worry about inflation. The middle class (barely) keeps up because they have bargaining power. The lower classes? These guys have no bargaining power. As someone above (don’t remember if it was left-or-right-wing) pointed out; minimum wage workers have no bargaining power because they have no skill set; they are easily replaced. And it isn’t as easy a waiving a magic wand to get their college degree; some people can’t graduate from college. Minimum wage is what allows them to have some standard of living (generally set at poverty level). What y’all are arguing for is leaving people behind from even being able to achieve poverty.

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Rickster, if I had put my brain in my heart, I would have had an attitude about the company I got laid off from. If I had put my brain in my heart, I would not have had the dignity to work two jobs while looking for one to replace the one I lost. It wasn’t my fault for the downsizing, but I have no grudges and it did put me in an arena that I’ve not experienced before. While working those two low-paying jobs, I learned a lot about colleagues and the typical work ethic out there. My eyes were quite open to those that believe employers owe them the damn job and they don’t have to do any more than they feel like. I’ve had the opportunity to see another mindset, and it reflects yours. If I put my brain in my heart, I wouldn’t be in the position I’m in today, so back off.

Greg explains very well what happens as you raise the minimum wage - not to mention the numbers of jobs lost due to higher costs for employers. Remember this also when your savior, Obama, raises payroll taxes. Then where is your a* going to be? Then again, that’s the point of the Marxist mindset, play to the sympathies of the needy to get in power, rape the producers, then watch what happens to everyone. Your life won’t be any better and could possibly be worse for it. Please, don’t talk about a brain to me buck-a-roo!

By linda

July 22, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

Rickster, You are a prime example of whats wrong with this country! You and the two other people on this board that are for the minimum wage need to realize that this country wasnt founded on entitlement. It was founded and built on hard work and a desire to do better! Give me one good excuse or reason why someone cant make it here in America? If you cant make it here, you are certainly not going to make it anywhere else!

If you to school, work hard, get a degree (yes you can take out loans just like everyone else), learn a skill/trade, establish a good work ethic, and strive to be better than the day before you WILL succeed.

Stop complaining and please stop s#&ing….you are not fit to raise a child!!!

By RealityKing

July 22, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

I don’t know about backfiring but it does gives a whole new meaning to “mindless 110th liberal Congress”..

By Constructive Feedback

July 22, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

[quote]other priorities than maximizing marketplace efficiency get in the way—you know, pesky things like justice and fairness. [/quote]

Excuse me Copy Left:

I have to admit to you that I am working a job that pays a LIVING WAGE and thus I am a “living wage” supporter.

I support anyone who BUILDS THEIR SKILLS and thus increases their market earning potential where the CONSUMER OF LABOR sees value in their skills that he seeks to purchase will PAY MORE MONEY in exchange for these skills.

When you say “FAIRNESS” and “JUSTICE”….do you ever ask yourself WHO should bear the cost of such? The CONSUMER OF LABOR who has his right to VALUE the benefit of labor to his process OR DO WITHOUT IT……or the SELLER OF LABOR who offers their services onto the market?

By Mike

July 22, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

greg Please stop with the ridiculous arguments.. No one is trying to flip the poverty rate with the average wage of the country. What we’re talking about is, as the gap increases between the bottom wage rate and middle wage rate, trying to shrink that gap so they can catch up a little. Surely you understand that.

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Linda, you go girl!!!

By Rickster

July 22, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Barbara, Greg & Linda are oviously not in touch with reality or the real world in this country.

Again, whether you want to agree with it or not, underprivaledged minorities are depserate and are willing to do anything to maintain survival. Come out from under your Alpharetta, Woodstock, Acworth and Logaville rocks! You can’t see it under there! This is real folks. And until you can understand the plight of these people, you will continue to cry and whimper about the things you belive in are true. It’s a different world for those not lot like you. Yeah! That’s right. A completely different mindset and way of looking at surviving in a country that they know is keeping them suppressed!

Call it a stalemate, oxymoron, or whatever you want to call it, but it’s reality in the eyes of those you look differnetly upon.

You are being affected by their suppression!!! Even if you don’t see it of if you’re not willing to admit it!

If you care, don’t change your way of thinking, just change your way of thinking about these people that are affected by the system they belive is holding them back!

If you don’t care, well, just crawl back under your rock(s)!!!

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Rickster, if not having money to buy birth control, go to a movie, go to the lake, or do all those other things that are considered luxuries when you can afford them are keeping you suppressed in this country, then may I suggest you leave? See if you have it better elsewhere.

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Oh Rickster, just food for thought. This country isn’t holding you back. The only thing that is would be you, sir. You’re your own worst enemy and don’t even know it.

By who cares

July 22, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

honestly who cares. all that is going to happen is my value meal is going up 10 cents or my burger is going to shrink a little to help of set the small labor expense increase

By L

July 22, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Wonder what these same conservatives will say when those desperate minimum wage workers are out of work and breaking into their houses or carjacking you in your pristine sub divisions? Don’t think that survival of the fittest stops at getting a job…a man/woman watching their kids cry for lack of food or shelter will do things they would not ordinarily do. Check your crime stats….economy is going down, temperatures are up and so is crime. The deeper the decline in the economy only means that it will be a matter of time before the crime reaches to your neighborhood. It may translate into your recently laid off neighbor who refuses to work those $6.55 job (or he/she is working 2 of them and still not making it) decides to burn down his house for the insurance money and burns your dreams down with it.

It’s slowly creeping up on you but you fail to realize that it’s coming.

By Drew

July 22, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

“… just change your way of thinking about these people that are affected by the system they belive is holding them back!”

The problem is what they ‘believe’… not the system. If you ‘believe’ you will fail, you surely will. Belive that.

By Oh Please

July 22, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Who cares-

Are you even old enough to work or do you still live with mom and dad??? It isn’t just going to be your fast food meals… It is going to be everything else to go along with it.

Fast food resturants are not the only places that hire minimum wage workers. Hello? Who do you think works in the chicken plants, manufacturing assembly lines, etc etc…

To say all you will suffer is 10 cents for each hamburger shows that you have no common sense on how broad this spectrum is.. So go back to class, get an education, so maybe you won’t be one we are griping about…. Or better yet, maybe you should go get the McDonald’s job so you can get the employee discount to offset the 10 cents extra YOU are paying…

Good grief.

By Chelsea

July 22, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Wow, a 70 cent increase in wages will keep my neighbor from burning his house down? I had no idea it was so simple! Will it clear up my dandruff as well?

By Barbara

July 22, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

L, if you can’t afford the expenses of having kids, you shouldn’t have them. Do you honestly believe that those who don’t have exactly what they want should have the right to rob and pillage? Are you saying that’s acceptable behavior? That mindset is the reason some counties are keeping MARTA out. Crime is everywhere, but is only escalated when you have segments of society going into areas they have nothing to do with except to commit crimes.

Was it right for two crime-ridden thugs to not only rob, but shoot (five times) the student body president of my alma mater? It wasn’t enough that they robbed her, but they had to kill her. Please educate me on the reasoning behind this behavior.

You can’t depend on your government to support you. It’s not the government’s job to support you. It’s yours and yours alone. If you’re able-bodied enough to rob someone, then you’re quite able to work, even if it’s manual labor.

Again, you have access to the internet, and that’s a luxury to a lot of people. Perhaps realigning priorities on spending money would afford some the food, clothing, and shelter they need for “survival”.

By Oh Please

July 22, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

L-

You are calling minimum wage workers criminals…. and whether or not the wage is increased isn’t going to change their so called “needs” to break into people’s homes. Until someone GIVES them what they are not willing to work for, they are ALWAYS going to be looking to get something for free.

So why raise the wage when their need for the dollar menu at Wendy’s isn’t going to change. I would love to see the statistics on how many illegals hold minimum wage jobs. You raise their check, they send more back to the family they left across the borders.

Sure, they want a decent living too, but they aren’t paying taxes…..so not only are they getting ALL of their pay check, but we are supporting the rest of their needs with the taxes WE pay.

If they want to live here, by all means, let them stay….under the circumstances that they become citizens and are taxed equally as the rest of us. Then I will have NO problem with them here.

By JimP.

July 22, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Senator Obama says we have lost the war in Iraq. He should be saying we lost the war on poverty way long time ago. We should stop throwing good money after bad.

By Oh PLease

July 22, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

Chelsea-

I almost fell off my chair. That is funny stuff.

By Keon

July 22, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

I understand that minimum wage was not designed to raise a family on. I understand that it was designed as a point to start with. All that is really and valid, and that is coming from a bleeding hart liberal.

However, on the converse side, we must also what what it WAS DESIGNED FOR. It was designed to limit the ability of the haves to mercilessly take advantage of the of have nots. There arguements against minimum wage fought against by Brandeis (First Jewish Supreme Justice) was that by setting a miminum wage the government was interring in the free market…because a person might be willing to work for less and the payer was not being harmed… Now that sounds like the same today, we should help the capitalist and not the people. There has to be a balance… Making the poor into middle class isn’t balance…but neither is turning them in to indentured servants. There will always be someone willing to work for less and always someone disadvantaged or that doesn’t take advantage of opportunity. That should not be the determinant for this discussion. The determinant should be the ability of the AVERAGE person(NOT FAMILY) to afford the basics in life…which are health food(vegetables), transportation(public), health, and a safe dwelling place. That’s not that simple when you are making $5/hr even if you work 80hrs a week!

By thomas

July 22, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

minimum wage increases hurt everybody …….all it does is raise prices and standard of living which in turn will make it even harder for the people it’s supposed to help survive…..employers will just pass the costs onto us and on top of all the other problems we have (gas, housing market, food) we are going to be in serious trouble ……thanks democrats….only reason we did good in 90s is because of internet boom not because of clinton’s economic policies….and then we have the greatest scam of all time “Global warming’ to make matters worse…just another scam similar to the Y2K scare that was cooked up by people (possibly even gore himself) to make big profits on software businesses didnt need