Opinion Talk

By Concerned oldtimer

May 21, 2008 8:00 AM | Link to this

When you only teach SS or science ocasionally you get poor results..no brainer. The Middle School I retired from only teaches these two subjects every other day AND Social Studies does not count for AYP.

By Just Nasty and Mean

May 21, 2008 8:01 AM | Link to this

Who is causing the failure in schools?

Two Words….“Teacher’s Unions”

By Two Hatchet

May 21, 2008 8:01 AM | Link to this

Ten years ago, I graduated UGA with a major in Social Studies Education, a 3.9 GPA & I never found a job in that field. I discovered that school system hires are largely based on nepotism. The only qualification that matters is your dad or mom being employed in the system.

By A real conservative

May 21, 2008 8:01 AM | Link to this

Because they are in government schools. Simple as that. Parents, your kids’ education is your responsibility. Get them OUT of government schools.

By Mary Helen Ramming

May 21, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this

Incentivize teachers - fire the bad ones - get rid of the NEA - from a teacher - it is that simple.

By Fred

May 21, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this

Parents, teach your children. Too many kids come home to empty houses. Too many parents hand their kids over to the local school district for educating. Teachers and schools are not the largest part of the problem. WE are the problem. Sit with your kid as they do their homework. Discuss it with them. Find out what the curriculum is and educate yourself so you can help your kid learn. Talk with your children about what they are studying. Challenge them to dig deeper. Parent apathy is a huge problem. How is YOUR grammar? How are your math skills? Do you discuss the latest scientific breakthroughs with your children? Do you teach them the history of our country? Our World?

In the word of John Ruskin-

Do you ask to be the companion of nobles? Make yourself noble, and you shall be. Do you long for the conversation of the wise? Learn to understand it, and you shall hear it. But on other terms?—no.

By Frustrated

May 21, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this

It’s just like the professor said, science and social studies are an afterthought at administrative levels. If so much emphasis is going to placed on these tests and they are going to raise the bar regulary, then the state is going to have to train teachers on how to teach the new curriculum. I hate to use an assembly line analogy, but if you send something new down the line that is different and the worker needs to use new tools to accomplish the assembly, shouldn’t managment give a littel warning, not to mention training. Max Thompson has been speaking about the new math test for several years now and how the curriculum needed to change to help kids excel. Some schools embraced the new ideas and their scores show it. Others gave it lip service and well, now their kids are suffering. Change is as consistent and demanding as a school’s administration makes it, and the reality is that a lot of people in charge of curriculum at the county levels don’t have a clue. They are riding the gravy train to a retirement that should have happened years ago. Guess who is paying for their ineptness.

By Bonedaddy

May 21, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this

It must be George Bush’s fault and lets not forget global warming. Actually the real problem is lack of competition from private schools. Allow my tax dollars to provide vouchers for parents to decide to put their kids in private schools. Let the public shchools with their teachers unions actually compete for students and watch them shape up. The teachers unions are killing this country. By the way, my sister homeshooled her son, he started college at 15, just graduted with a law degree last week with his 3rd degree.

By CJ

May 21, 2008 8:17 AM | Link to this

Easy! The state has provided one standardized test with a bank of standardized test questions. The state also has thousands of social studies and math teachers, each teaching the material slightly different, each with different tools at their disposal, and each with different personalities.

The poor kids are getting mixed messages - some teachers teach to prepare for the test, others teach their own lesson plans and taylor the material to fit the needs of their students, and still others may have a crappy personality that doesn’t intice the students to learn.

The problem is that if a kid is being taught material that isn’t preparing them for the test and they bring home an A, there’s no way the parents would have a clue that their child is ill-prepared for the CRCT. If my child brought home A’s in social studies and math, I would assume they are learning the material and are ready to succeed in that subject matter.

The only way to fix this problem is to replace all of the teachers with robots who are programmed to teach exactly the same!

By Frustrated

May 21, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

There are no teachers unions in Georgia. We have two professional organizations, PAGE and GAE that have about as much clout at the state level as my dog. No, it’s not the teacher unions that are the problem.

By Ross

May 21, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this

Just Nasty and Mean GA. does not alow their teachers to unionize the way they do up north.The organizations in GA. have very little power. Try to find another reason.

By Frustrated

May 21, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this

Damn Fred, you nailed a huge part of the problem.

By Mid-South Philosopher

May 21, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this

As to the dismal performances of eighth graders on the math portion of the CRCT and the equally dismal performance of sixth and seventh graders on the social studies portion of their CRCTs, the reason is simple. As for math, the new state math curriculum is a disaster. Many good math teachers don’t really understand the new curriculum. Many math textbook series in use in the state are not correlated with it.

Even more distressing is that it attempts to teach concepts to children at ages when the brain is not physiologically developed to process the information.

With respect to the performance on the social studies portion of the sixth and seventh grade CRCTs, the reason for lack of success is elementary. Teachers, in the early grades have been indoctrinated to make sure the students are ready to pass the math and reading/language arts portions of the tests. This brainwashing has been enhanced by the illogical and asinine No Child Left Behind (No Teacher Left with One) Act. Consequently, teachers have not been as diligent in teaching social studies (or science, for that matter) in the earlier grades. And certainly if anything has to suffer or be left out, it has to be social studies! After all look at the wonderful, intelligent, and effective political leaders that are running our state and nation!

I respect Kathy Cox. I think she is a good teacher and a capable administrator. I think her goal to “lead the nation in improving student achievement” is admirable and achievable. Unfortunately, the state politicians have given her a stool with only one leg and it is not centered under the seat. That leg is “teacher/school accountability.” The missing legs are “parental accountability”, which our “snot” of a General Assembly does not have the courage to enact, and “community accountability”, which must be included in the equation if we are ever to achieve international parity in our education system.

In actuality, what will happen is that the politicians will continue to give lip service to education, yet support an educational delivery model that was designed for 1846!

By Randall

May 21, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this

Failures are not the fault of the teachers. If a student expects to pass the standardized tests, first he or she must actually read the questions and attempt to mark the correct answer. Most students either put their heads down and sleep through the test, or randomly mark answers.

Second, students who wish to pass the tests must keep their mouths shut and pay attention in class. Most people have never been in a middle school classroom, so their misguided opinions about teacher’s unions and government schools can be overlooked. In 2008, children are not taught in their homes that education, respect, and decorum are important, therefore they come to school expecting to do what they do at home, which is talk whenever they want at the top of their lungs and send text messages or listen to iPods.

Third, any student who wishes to pass a standardized test must do the work assigned by the teacher. Contrary to popular belief, the tasks assigned in class are not simply “busy work;” they are learning tasks designed to allow students to make connections and practice skills. The simple fact of the matter is that students don’t do what they’re assigned, which results in poor grades. When the end of the year comes and the students are failing, the parents come to the principals demanding their child be passed on. Principals are scared of parents and their lawyers, so they prevail on the teachers to “adjust” the grades, with only a cursory attempt on the students’ part to make up any work.

If the two morons above (Just Nasty and Mean…how appropo…) had any real knowledge of what goes on during a typical school day, they would realize that it takes effort on the part of all parties involved—the reason why test scores in this state are miserable is because the students are not held accountable for their behavior and effort in school.

By gadawg

May 21, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

How many stupid blogs does the AJC have to put out? Really. Only a moron can’t figure out that education starts at home. If the parents aren’t involved and willing to spend time with their kids in homework, PTA, etc., then their kids obviously see that their parents don’t view education as being important either, so why should they?. So what’s the solution? None really. If parents aren’t interested in their children’s outcome, then it’s not the resposibility of the government or the states to be their mommy and daddy for them. No one forced those parents to have the kids in the first place.

By Realistic

May 21, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

Let’s hold the state responsible for this one. Everybody is all fat and happy at Georgia Department of Education. They are not liable for anything except taking credit for positive results. The decision to make the standards more difficult and to raise the bar was a good political plot to get the Super re-elected.

By Mary Helen Ramming

May 21, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

NO teacher unions in Georgia? Are you kidding? You can’t even student teach without belonging to a subsidiary of the NEA for liability insurance. You are REQUIRED to join - period. What a joke! Unions run the show - why do you think bad teachers aren’t fired?

By Fred

May 21, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

My son will be going into the fourth grade next year. His school will be releasing classes on friday. My son has straight A’s but Math and Grammar have challenged him. Yesterday, my wife emailed his teacher to find out what curriculum was being used next year for English Grammar and Math. we will be purchasing some books. I will not be handcuffing him to a table this summer but I will make sure that Math and Grammar are part of our daily conversation. Science and History are always part of the conversation in my house because they interest me. Carry on conversations with your kids. Use proper grammar. Challenge them to improve themselves. Read to them, even if it’s just a newspaper article. Bring them to the library. Your kids will not be the only ones to grow. Have a problem with your school? Go to the School Board meetings. Don’t like things in your community, go to the county meetings. Get involved in your own lives. Stop letting life happen to you. Turn off the TV. The motto of the S.A.S. is “Who dares, wins” That is true in all areas of our life.

By Filster

May 21, 2008 8:43 AM | Link to this

When I was a child (many, many moons ago), I see to recall spending an entire year doing nothing but addition and subtraction, then the next year division and multiplication, and so on. I di dnot take geometry until the 8th grade and algebra till 10th OK, I was not a honor student). My 12-year old has now had almost 6 years of algebra instruction, usually only several weeks in duration. When I ask her teachers about here actually learning anything, the response is “we reinforce it next year.” Well, you can only reinforce what was learned. If not learned, you have to re-teach. And the same scenario plays on in other classes as well. BAck in the social 60’s and 70’s, some well meaning educators decided they wanted to stop producing “robots” who only studied the hard disciplines, i.e., math, science, etc. So we introduced classes intended to make our children “citizens of the world,” but this came at the expense of kids truly mastering (key term that) the hard, critical thinking classes. Add such wonders as “social promotion” (don’t want little JOhnny to feel bad about himself because he can’t read or multiply) and we are getting what we asked for. I have heard tme and tme agin that schools teach to the CRCT. If that’s true, we didn’t do a good job this year. Perhaps the better approach would be to buckle down, give kids the type of homework I grew up with, and perhaps (parents) place the emphasis on little JOhnny’s educational achievements rather than softball, soccer, basketball (fill in the blank). I’m not advocating couch potatoes, but I know far too many kids whose extra-curricular schedule has simply got to eat into their school work time, unless they’re staying up till about 1 a.m. We CAN teach our kids. We just need to, once again, reorganize our priorities. Sure, little Susie may be very popular, a cheerleader, etc., but if she can’t tell the Pacific Ocean from the Atlantic, or find Europe on a world map, well, what yo see is what you get.

By Randall

May 21, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

Mary Helen Ramming…where are you getting this erroneous information? Student teachers are required to join PAGE or GAE by the colleges they attend, not the state or local school systems. Joining one of those organizations is completely optional…and they aren’t unions. If there were any such thing as a teacher’s union in this state we wouldn’t be making the crap salaries we get.

By MamaS

May 21, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

You say parents should teach their kids? I say the Parents don’t know any more about Social Studies than the kids? 1. Name the VICE PRESIDENT of the United States. 2. Name the Prime Minister of Great Britain. 3. Locate Myanmar on a world map. 4. What happened in China last week and how many people were killed? The average American adult can’t answer these questions because they don’t care what happens outside their little corner of the world. So why expect 5th grade teachers to teach it or 5th grade students to learn it? PS For the correct answers, READ THE NEWSPAPER.

By Dave

May 21, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

I’m not sure this is as much a philosophical problem, but rather a change in what’s being tested but not what’s being taught - they don’t match, ergo the kids don’t pass?

By it'sme

May 21, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Mary Helen Ramming, you do not know what you are talking about. As a board member of the GAE I can assure you no one is ever reguired to join. Student teacher are often encouraged by theur profesors to join AN organization, but certainly not required. If so, our membership. It is simply not so. would be full of students teachers

By zeke

May 21, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

SOCIALIST-GOVERNMENT-SCHOOLS!

By Jim

May 21, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

In Georgia, we have school administrators that are not certified to teach at the schools they lead. I believe that if you are a principle at an elementary school, you should be certified to teach there.

By tony

May 21, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this

I have been teaching school in Georgia for over 30 years and do not belong to any teacher organization. Please don’t comment if you don’t know about which you speak.

By nasir

May 21, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

Words cannot express the pain and humiliation Kathy Cox has caused teachers, parents, and students. The Department of Education clearly dropped the ball with the 7th grade Social Studies CRCT. The State Department is reporting that nearly 80% of all Georgia Students failed the 7th grade social studies test—-it is actually closer to 90%. The reason this has happpened is because the test did not cover the standards that the education department instructed teachers to teach. Now the Department of Education is conducting a major cover-up. THey dropped the ball on this one and teachers, parents, and students have been forever scarred. I’m a 7th grade teacher and words cannot express the ridicule and humiliation I endured when my principal informed me that only 25% of my students passed the social studies test. I was told that I had let the entire school system down. I was also told that scores this bad were embarrassing and grounds for termination. Little did he know,the entire state of Georgia had the same results. My principal has apoligized to me for the scolding, but the few days of my life before this story broke were days in which I was broken emotionally. I was afraid of returning to work because I was so humiliated. I was afraid of what parents were going to think of me. I told my principal that there has to be some mistake because I have always had my students score far above state average on standardized test scores.. My words fell on deaf ears. I’m hoping that Kathy cox come down from her horse she name “damage control” and admit that the Department of Education dropped the ball. The scores should be invalidated. You can’t hold kids, teachers, and parents accountable for your mistakes. I’ve been in contact with many teachers and parents that planned to launch a class action law suit against the Georgia Department of Education. We will not let them cover this up.

By teacherteacher

May 21, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

Mary Helen,

Yes, you have to get liability insurance to student teach from a NEA subsidiary. However, as someone who went through that process, trust me - there is no union activity whatsoever in this state. Please spend some time up north where teacher unions exist and are a strong presence. Georgia is a non-union state for teachers. Please check your facts.

And, for the record, I have to say that while I don’t agree with everything unions do, there are times I would love to have a group of educators that can stand up to a group of politicians (ahem, Georgia Assembly) with educational research and experience to combat some of the hairbrained ideas the assembly comes up with for the sake of political lip service.

By ron

May 21, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

These test results indicate that students are not being taught.But taught what?I’ve often wondered if students are being taught to the test.Perhaps this year there was a different test that caught everyone flat footed.It certainly appears to be the case.

Another alternative to explore is that teachers weren’t up to teaching this tougher cirriculum.

By College student

May 21, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

Do you honestly believe that subjective factors like the teachers’ unions or private-public school free market competition or the actual involvement in parents has to do with a double-digit drop in passing rates of a statewide exam over multiple grades in one year?

As much as we need the critical sciences, at least my political science degree is teaching me one thing: half of you are not thinking critically about what actually happened between last year and this year to cause this drop. We might be able to identify a progression of improvement or failure in the public schools, but the real issue is that this year’s success numbers were far lower than last year’s numbers.

With an 80% failure rate, we probably should entirely cancel the social studies CRCT exam until we have discovered what, statistically and not politically or culturally, went wrong. We should seriously consider canceling ANY and EVERY exam where more than half of students statewide failed. The state school systems cannot support >50% of sixth or seventh graders having to repeat a whole year. The backlog would destroy the school systems and our tax dollars.

I remember, when I went to Norcross High, my mother would complain about soft drinks being sold in vending machines. She turned to me and said, “Isn’t that terrible?” and I would turn to her and say “Sure, it’s terrible and unhealthy, but why are you talking to me about it? I’m a student and have no influence with the school. Go to a PTA meeting and speak out.” She never did, and as far as I know the vending machines still sell soft drinks.

So, parents of Georgia school kids and concerned citizens, you probably should go to your PTA meetings and harass your school boards or even run for a slot on your school board. Because complaining on this board isn’t going to do squat.

Thank God I graduated from this terrible public school system and got to spend a year of college studying in Italy.

By Marie

May 21, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

The average citizen in Georgia does not have any knowledge of maps, graphs, other countries, cultures, languages, demographic studies or anything else remotely social studies related. I have met many people since I have moved here who are not interested in other cultures or people. If the parents show no interest in the rest of the world, then their children won’t either. Furthermore is English-only the answer or English primarily the realistic solution. I hate to be cliche, but almost every other country speaks two or more languages. As far as math is concerned the citizens of Georgia must reinforce study habits at home. Yes, the curriculum has become more challenging, however the responsibilty of reinforcing the curriculum lies within the realm of the parent. Check your children’s homework. Allow us to GIVE HOMEWORK. Use applicable real life examples as a reason to learn math. Parents be aware that the child’s first teacher is the mother. Government school, private school, home school, if the parent is not actively involved in the education of their child, then unfortunately the child is destined to failure. The success of your child rests with the parent or parent figure whether you like it or not.

By Marie

May 21, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

The average citizen in Georgia does not have any knowledge of maps, graphs, other countries, cultures, languages, demographic studies or anything else remotely social studies related. I have met many people since I have moved here who are not interested in other cultures or people. If the parents show no interest in the rest of the world, then their children won’t either. Furthermore is English-only the answer or English primarily the realistic solution. I hate to be cliche, but almost every other country speaks two or more languages. As far as math is concerned the citizens of Georgia must reinforce study habits at home. Yes, the curriculum has become more challenging, however the responsibilty of reinforcing the curriculum lies within the realm of the parent. Check your children’s homework. Allow us to GIVE HOMEWORK. Use applicable real life examples as a reason to learn math. Parents be aware that the child’s first teacher is the mother. Government school, private school, home school, if the parent is not actively involved in the education of their child, then unfortunately the child is destined to failure. The success of your child rests with the parent or parent figure whether you like it or not.

By Susan Campbell

May 21, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

Students don’t have math books and parents cannot help them at home. For 3 years this eighth grade class has learned a new curriculum when their own teachers are struggling to learn it as well. The State DOE has not provided sufficient training in the math curriculum, so local systems do what they can to provide training, at their own expense. The learning curve is steep.

Very few states are using the GPS Japanese Model to teach math, and several who tried went back to teaching traditional math. This is a recipe for disaster, as evidenced by the 40% failure rate. The State DOE rushed the curriculum 3 years ago, made it mandatory to implement, and hang local systems out to dry when the failure rate is exposed.

The Stae DOE should help fund remediation for this group fo students who have suffered through 3 years of GPS math. Parents have complained, but the State DOE ignores them. Thankfully, some systems have asked for and received waivers to bring back traditional math with the GPS math. Test scores are better with this approach, as evidenced in Gwinnett County.

THe State DOE needs to step up to the plate and fund remediation for this group of rising ninth graders! Fulton County has spent millions more on new textbooks for this group. With the new rigorous high school graduation requirements, our students deserve better froom the State of GA!

By jacqueline jenkins

May 21, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

From JJ Classes were one hour, now some classes in elementary schools is forty minutes to teach math. When you have 30 + kids in one class how can you teach in that amount of time. Also it takes five minutes for them to get in class and settle down, then 5 more minutes to gather their belonging to go to the next class. That is additional 10 minutes taken away from teaching. The state took this time away from teaching the kids. Lets look at that among other things such as parents helping their kids in the afternoon with homework like I did.

By gadawg

May 21, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT! PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT! PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT! And if you can’t/won’t get involved, then DON’T HAVE KIDS!

By panther parent

May 21, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

As a teacher, I fully know the importance of parent involvement. As a parent I am involved to the fullest extent possible in my child’s academics, but no amount of parent involvement could have prevented the horrid scores in 6th and 7th grade Social Studies. My daughter scored a “Does Not Meet” in S.S. I am livid, but not with her school or our system. I realize that the test did not align with the new GPS standards. The blame for the failing scores lies with the Department of Education. I understand that the test was full of picky, isolated “Trivial Pursuit” type questions and did not truly assess the students’ knowledge and application of the concepts with respect to the GPS. Students did not fail the test, but the test failed the students. The Department of Education has failed our students. Blame does not lie with students or parents, or teachers. I am all for a rigorous curriculum, but assessment has to align with the curriculum.

By barneyb

May 21, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

This is heartbreaking for the kids and teachers who truly worked their tails off for this. The test and the mateirals given to teachers to ptrep students for this was a joke- oftentimes not even the same material. This should fall squarely back on the state. All tests should be invalidated until someone who knows what they are doing figures out what went wrong. Impacted parents of students who failed-band together and file a class action against the State for an injunction, permitting your kids to promote until this is settled in a fair and equitable manner. Yes, public schools in GA. need fixing and the bar needs to be raised. And tes, some kids are just destined to fail and not measure up. But not by thosehuge numbers, which are a result of a fatally flawed test.

By Dorothy Partridge

May 21, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Kudos to Professor Rick Breault from Kennesaw State University and the wisdom he showed about the teaching of reading, math, social studies and science in our public elementary schools in Georgia. I am happy I grew up in the public schools of Georgia in the 1950’s, in Decatur and Avondale Estates. Social studies and middle schools had not been invented yet! Elementary schools went from grades 1-7. From thirdgrade through seventh grade, we studied two subjects every week that we never hear about today: history and geography. These were my favorite subjects. I majored in history in college.Sometime after I graduated from elementary school in 1959, social studies was invented. I do not think students get much of a grasp of anything the way it is taught.Students are required to take some history courses in high school. However, they lack that wonderful background I had of history and of geography from my younger years. Imagine, when Georgia had far less money for education, every child in the state had the use of a history book and a geography book!I am very embarassed when I meet visitors to the U.S.or new Americans. Often they are shocked that people that live in the richest country on the planet know very little about any place or people outside the U.S.A.It makes me wonder if the students studied history and geography, instead of social studies, perhaps they would know more about the countries of the world and their history. Dorothy Partridge Avondale Estates, Georgia

By Foobs

May 21, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

I put the blame solely on the parents, collectively. This is not rocket science. These tests are a joke. Face it. If your kid puts in even minimal effort, he or she can pass this test. The kids are failing because their parents are failing as parents! We now have almost every school overrun with students that have little or no discipline, little or no work ethic, and little or no responsibility. Most parents today instill nothing but an excessive sense of entitlement in their children. Everyone blames schools, teachers, curriculum, state guidelines, etc. The problem is that people see that as absolutely acceptable. There’s very little schools or money will ever be able to do about this. Believe me, schools have been trying for decades, but the problem is that they’ve been trying too hard while the students haven’t been trying at all. People point fingers at every direction except where they should be pointed, parents and their kids. Even in problematic schools, the problems are just overwhelming because there is a collection of bad parents and bad kids. Schools can no longer discipline kids, and they can no longer fail kids when they fail. There are always lawsuits that empower kids to be manipulators of the sytem. Good teachers quit or get fired(because they have expectations), and good administrators do the same. As a result, most schools are full of kids that don’t want to learn and teachers that are burnt out. I feel sorry for the minority, good parents and good students. The more we look everywhere else besides the parents and students themselves and fail to hold high expectations, the more our public schools will decline. I see it totally different than most. I am so glad to see that schools are reporting 80% failure rates and not giving in to these kids and passing them anyway. I simply see that the 80% of students who failed need to get their priorities straight and start working. I trust the schools and teachers are doing all they can. Even if they didn’t, I would expect my kid to pass. And their parents need to hold them to it, period. We’re progressively creating generation after generation of kids that cannot fend for themselves. Let’s get real.

By Pine Knot

May 21, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Bad teachers can’t be fired, sports are more important in schools than curriculum, parents don’t care if kids learn, kids don’t give a damn, state department people stealing money from the county level and nothing done about it, coaches rewarded with promotions to administrative jobs they are incompetent to hold, should I continue? The whole system is a mess. If you want one reason, there is none it is the whole basket, and no one not Kathy Cox nor the legislature has the guts nor brains to stand up to the problems and clean it up. A lot of the children don’t want an education, and the parents don’t want them educated. If they did they would do more than complain, they would get busy and help teach their children at home, work with the teacher, and raise holy hell about the big mess we call education.

By Common Sense Parent

May 21, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

This solution is very simple and doesn’t require months of meetings with Cathy Cox. One of my sons goes to school in North Dekalb and last year for 7th gr social studies, they studied the European continent THE ENTIRE YEAR, however the CRCT had questions confined to the Africa and Asian continents. The result, my gifted student failed the SS portion. This year, same child, had GA Studies ALL YEAR, yet not one question related to this topic was on the CRCT. Duh! How about you tailor the curriculum to at least part of what’s going to be on the test? In South Dekalb, my other son had US History and they taught in chronological order, and they never finished past the early 1900s. Guess what was on the EOCT? Mostly later US History, very little early US History. Duh! Thankfully he studied endlessly and passed with flying colors but many, many others who were A students did not! It’s not the parents’ fault, not the teacher’s fault, plain and simple, actually come up with a test that mirrors what kids study and vice versa.

By Bubba

May 21, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

Marie, I assume you polled a large number of Georgia residents before making your ‘blanket’ comments. I have lived in Georgia for fifty years and certainly don’t share your views. I’m guessing that, since you moved here, you have been socializing with the wrong group of people. I can only assume your socializing with a bunch of morons. Maybe you should raise your standards and start interacting with a better class of people…. Or, just move back where you came from.

By Dr. Craig Spinks

May 21, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

Nasir, more power to your efforts to bring the GDOE to account via a judicial remedy! However, your evaluation of KC’s involvement is, I believe, mistaken. She’s able and willing but has almost unavoidably devolved into nothing but the Charley McCarthy through which the Edgar Bergen-like educrats attempt to spin their way to aresponsibility- again.

By Francesca

May 21, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

All GA public schools are supposed to be teaching the same curriculum. The people writing the test and the teachers are supposed to be using the same standards. The GPS for every grade and content area are posted on the GaDOE website. This is also accessible to parents who want to get more involved in their child’s education.

Many people don’t understand how much work goes into creating the CRCT. There are many stages of review between the development and the actual live test where teachers and government officials review and approve everything that students will see. All of this information is publically available on the internet for anyone who looks.

The Georgia Performance Standards are given to the company writing the test and they create the test questions based on the guidelines given to them by the state. Those questions are reviewed by panels of teachers. This is called an “Item Review”. Every item is reviewed and approved by a group of teachers as fit to use in the test.

After being approved at the Item Review the questions are included as “field test” questions in the next test administration. At this stage they do not count toward the student’s score.

After the field-testing, the items are reviewed again by panels of teachers. This time the teachers also have the statistics that show how well students did answering those questions when they took the test. If the questions are approved by the teachers at this stage, then they can be used as live questions on the test.

When content areas switched from QCC to GPS, there was another kind of review called a “Standard Setting”. At this meeting panels of teachers reviewed the test questions to determine how difficult it would be for an average student to answer them correctly. Those panels of teachers decided how many questions a student would have to answer correctly to pass the test in that content area.

If the questions didn’t match up with what the State and teachers thought was important for students to learn, they had the the opportunity to throw out those questions and take it in a different direction. It appears that everyone thought these were fine.

Maybe the teachers didn’t understand the standards. Maybe the Dept of Ed was too optimistic about how well kids would do on the test. Maybe parents aren’t paying attention, maybe kids aren’t paying attention. Maybe teachers aren’t trained, maybe, maybe, maybe…. We all want someone to blame, but what will that change? What did those 20 - 30% who passed do differently? Anyone who knows about statistics knows that farless than 20 - 30% of people are “geniuses”. On your normal bell curve these are probably just your A/B students.

A 70 - 80% failure rate is unreasonable, but what would be reasonable? Yes, we want to fix this, but let’s not go overboard. We can’t just ask for a test where everyone passes, what good would that be? No better than one that everyone fails.

We also should focus more on how GA measures up against the national averages. If my child is a genius in GA, what good will that do for him if he grows up and moves to IL or CT?

By C.R.H.

May 21, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this

For all the know-it-alls on the blog…THERE ARE NO TEACHER’S UNIONS IN GEORGIA. There are lame, ineffective “teacher organizations” that take money from teachers but provide no real service or value. BTW, if you look closely at standardized test scores you will find states that DO have teacher’s unions typically score well on national tests! Things that make you go hmmmm.

By MSTeacher

May 21, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

Obviously, with only 20% passing, there is a testing issue. However…

When reviewing for the CRCT, our SS teacher said there were only TWO students in one class that could tell him that the American Revolution took place in 1776. (He had covered that previously in class.) Who were these brilliant students? Neither of them was born in the United States! This is not meant to be a crack at immigrants, but rather a crack at the problems of those of us who take our citizenship for granted.

There is a lot of blame to go around. My 7th grade son, who is gifted, said that the SS CRCT test was the hardest test he had ever taken.

Of course, Social Studies always has to fight the problem that this is the last test the kids take - 5 two hour tests in five days. The students are exhausted. The teachers are exhausted. Many students, by the time this test rolls around, are so tired of testing they are marking random answers. I find it difficult to believe that sixth graders can read and answer 35 questions accurately in 20 minutes, which is how long most of the ones in my classroom took to complete each section. Perhaps the whole method of testing needs to be evaluated. That’s not even looking at the many varied standards that have to be covered.

Another thing to consider: the Atlanta area, in particular, is an area that has a large number of people moving in from other areas of the country. My county sees a huge transient population. Even if moving from another county (we’re all covering the same standards in Georgia), a student could completely miss a large portion of instruction because we did our units in a different order. Think of a student I had last year who moved from a northern state during 3rd grade. The school she moved to had already covered the multiplication tables. The school she was coming from had not. She completely missed learning multiplication. I suggested she buy some flash cards. She said she had some, but evidently no one at home was working with her to learn them.
It’s very difficult to teach a middle school student algebra if he or she can not multiply or is still adding on his or her fingers.

By If the Advantaged Child Fails...

May 22, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this

Why do our schools lack books and other materials to properly prepare our children and why are the online materials provided by the Georgia DOE full of errors? I am a university professor who has worked extensively in the area of Georgia history. My children are in 4th and 8th grades, the two grades that studied Georgia history. We relied on the GPS standards, online CRCT study materials and school worksheets to guide our CRCT preparation. Neither of my children had a textbook for Georgia history, so we made extensive use of the library, the New Georgia Encyclopedia, and web sites. I was shocked that the schools had no books for the students—NOTHING! I was even more shocked to find that several of the questions on the online CRCT preparation sites had erroneous answers—WHO PREPARES THIS STUFF? Many of the questions lacked context, so it was difficult for the children to know what was being asked. I presume this was true of the CRCT they administered. Despite many nights of study, my children—who have been raised on Georgia history through travel, family stories, and storytelling around our historic community—came away perplexed and confused from their CRCT experience. My fourth grader failed miserably—or I should say—failed the miserable test. I do not know the fate of my eighth grader. Our children were thrown a list of topics, but were provided shabbily constructed, erroneous study materials. I tried to correct this, but obviously by teaching them CORRECT information, I set them up for failure. If my children struggled with their preparation, I cannot imagine how families who lack the resources and background we have managed to prepare for these tests. This is just my venting on the Georgia history portion of the Social Studies test. I am furious, too, about the whole CRCT experience. My children did little from January onwards but prepare for these trivial pursuit tests. It is disgraceful to set children up for failure and to hinge passing to the next grade on multiple choice tests, each taken on a single day. Learning is not appropriately assessed through this guessing game. Our children are just commodities for the test prep companies.

By Teacher

May 22, 2008 7:39 AM | Link to this

John David Eaten— you sir, have said it all. Thank you.

By teacher51

May 22, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

In January of this year, I sent a letter to the Department of Education regarding the 7th grade Social Studies standards. In that letter, I compared Georgia standards with that of 2 other states which teach similar concepts in the 7th grade year. Georgia standards are unbelievably more complicated than the standards of those states. The stadards are also absurdly specific in some cases and overly huge in others. (In short, SS7E2c requires the student to describe African international trade systems and know and identify examples of currency of Egypt, South Africa, Nigeria, and Chad. Conversely, SS7G7a, in short wants students to know location, religion, customs and traditions of the following ethnic groups: Arab, Jewish, Berber, Druze, Bedouin, Kurd, Turk, Persian, and Armenian.) In my letter I quoted the history department chair of our local college who is responsible for teaching the future teachers of these Social Studies standards. He objected vehemently about these standards when they were initially introduced for discussion. He submitted his objections and was never contacted. Please go to the Georgia DOE website and review the standards teachers are expected to teach and children are expected to learn (100+ standards in 26-28 weeks—impossible!) I encourage the Georgia Department of Education to start listening to teachers and make these standards reasonable and reliable. By the way, I had a relatively high 40% pass rate in my non-gifted classes because I realized that teaching these standards was an injustice to my students and I taught them the overriding concepts of African, Asian, and the Middle East. By teaching higher level thinking skills, my students were somehow able to reason out more answers than most. And they leave my classroom this year with an education about these areas that is useful and realistic. Change the standards….

By Old School

May 23, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this

Parents are cow towing to their kids,in other words the kids are dictating directives to the parents. If junior is failing math, and has a cell phone, then the phone has to go. However; since Sally Sue down the street has unlimited cell phone usage, then Junior must keep his privileges too. Parents aren’t anything except appeasers when it comes to their little charges being like everyone else’s, well we’ve reached parity, they’re all failing.

By ateacher

May 23, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this

Well….we all seem to have a lot of misconceptions. I am a teacher, let me give my thoughts. I teach 4th grade and my kids did fantastic on the CRCT and I teach at a Title 1 school. You know the “poor” kids. They all passed with ease because I work THEM very hard, and myself harder. I require their best so they can reach their max. potential. 1st The teachers were told what to teach, but were to lazy to change to the new standards. 2nd I am not a memeber or NEA or GCE or any other organization because frankly they have NO say or power. Student teachers are required to join, for the sake of the university they attend! 3rd Teacher Unions do not exist in GA, and Admin. loves this! 4th Teachers spend too much time teaching life/social skills that should be taught at home! 5th Don’t blame me when your kid fails because you had them out all night, for a stupid baseball game. Save it for the weekend, I DO. 6th We have problems, BUT most teachers are bogged down by regulations and procedures that simply make no sense. 7th I dare you to wake up everyday and say I am going to make a difference, not sell crap to other people!!!! 8th My summer “vacation” consist of planning, reading, and gathering ideas for the next school year. I’ll probably cut the grass too! 9th and final point….our students as a whole reflect society as a whole…..self centered!

By Mac

May 23, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

As I recall Roy Barnes was trying to change the DOE and the standards in Georgia, but the staff/teachers ask the voters to not reelect him. As a citizen and voter I am happy with the high failure rate. DOE staff, teachers and parents keep up the good work!

By Papermill PhD

May 24, 2008 4:08 AM | Link to this

Why do children not learn in Georgia?

Politics, poverty, apathy, corruption, and nepotism at the county school board level. Downtrodden teachers, absent, ignorant, or abusive parents, and a xenophobic society…What hope does a book have in Georgia, much less a student?

One Georgia school principal went so far last year as to burn piles of school furniture as a token gesture of who knows what. That bit of education degree-based egomania resulted in perhaps the most expensive taxpayer-funded bonfire the state has ever seen. The school board of a certain county, to remain nameless, in Georgia has long placed more importance on hiring relatives of school board members and of local school administrators than on the education of its students. I am certain that there are other counties in the state with the same propensity for nepotism. Still, this has been going on for decades, everyone in the area is aware of the fact, yet nothing can be done to change it because the power, money and influence are in the hands of a few families who call all the shots. Very recently, another high school principal in Georgia was caught changing the grades of one of his own children, apparently in an attempt to prevent that child from losing the position of valedictorian this year. Teachers in these same school districts have been harassed to the point of having to quit their jobs for being foreigners (apparently legal residency and federal law mean nothing to the Good Ole Boy system), or, perhaps worse, Yankees. Do we still need to wonder at the total lack of personal responsibility, culture, or even basic knowledge amongst our young citizenry today? The reasons are painfully obvious.

When are we going to teach our children? What are we going to teach our children? We’re too busy with the emperor’s new clothes; we pretend that our marvelous “research-based teaching methods” work. Time and time again, it has been made abundantly clear that trendy education theories are hogwash and produce nothing but ignorant students who, thanks to our state curriculum policies, develop a healthy distaste for anything smacking of academia.

Our poor teachers are held accountable for situations over which they have absolutely no control. They are badgered by their administrators, and threatened and bullied by state education personnel. They are forced to do the impossible, and given no tools, support or encouragement to do it. Imagine if your dentist’s license to practice were revoked because his patients decided to ignore his advice, ate all the sweets they could get their hands on, and then suffered from the resulting cavities. A teacher cannot force a student to do homework, or anything else for that matter. When our students choose to fail, why are our teachers held to blame? Perhaps many Georgia education administrators need to feel the sting of a good old fashioned paddle (since the teachers can’t tan the backside of violent, abusive students by order of local school administrators). Perhaps it would stimulate their memories of what a well-rounded education, including a sound discipline policy, really is.

There is too much wrong with education in Georgia to express in a short rant at the end of a news article. The topic of education in Georgia is enough to evoke vitriole and anger in any sane, educated person. Those who want to blame teachers and unions, which in Georgia are non-existent, should be forced to do a Georgia teacher’s job for a year. That would shut their ignorant mouths, guaranteed.

This state is an international shame as regards education.

By Cant stop lovin' U

May 24, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

The schools are not to blame. Teachers are not to blame. Parents are not to blame.

The students are children. They want to experience fun. Ask a student how to improve their school, and nearly all of them want more fun, longer breaks between classes, longer lunches, field trips, after school activities and clubs, bigger parking lots for easier access to roads for off campus lunches, no dress code, teaching techniques that emphasis entertaining while instructing, and other self centered changes.

Can we make math fun? Can we make social studies fun? I think so. All teachers should be required to attend a mime class, a puppetry-arts class, and a ventriloquism seminar. Let’s put on a show and get these kids paying attention. Perhaps a standup comedy technique with a mike and a spotlight and a platform stage. “You wouldn’t believe what happened to me on the way to school today. I stopped at starbucks, are you ready for this? I ordered a venti, the price was 2.17, I said, hey! If I could afford that I’d rent Juan Valdeze’s mule and pick the beans myself. Anyway, I gave the guy a five, and he only gave me 3.36 cents back? Do you believe this guy? He actually short changed me. Does anyone know by how much?”

Camera to asian looking guy in the front row: “Oooo! I know the answer! Pick me! OO! I know!”

Teacher ignores genius asian guy and looks at the girl behind him, “SallY?”

I dont know, what was the question? Can I text a friend, I just thought of something important. You suck by the way.

“Bill?”

Huh?

“Johnny? Do you know how much I got ripped off for?”

No. I dont care either. Who would order a venti. You can go to McD’s and get more coffee for less and you get fries if you want. Can I text my mom, I have to ask her something?

“you horrid children. You never listen. I write this material and you just sit there like bumps on a log. You’re the worst audience ever. I hate you all. You’ll never amount to anything. You losers! “

Camera to class starting to laugh hysterically at the teacher’s unraveling…..

“Now that’s funny, teach. Okay, the guy at starbucks didn’t rip you off, it’s a trick question. He actually gave you 53 cents too much. Good one.”

The teacher stares in amazement at her breakthrough.

the end.

PS: The children all agree that more security cameras, hall monitors, and metal detectors are essential. Many do no feel safe.

By Educator Corrects

May 24, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

Papermill PHD: Your last sentence spent all your credibility. You are not educated properly and small children should not be exposed to you. And I think it’s a shame that your mother didn’t raise you to be a nicer girl, sir.

Only a menace to education would express themselves as poorly as you!