Opinion Talk

By cursed

May 2, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

Lethal injection is to good for these scumbags. Bring back ole sparky. I’d gladly pull the switch.

By CherokeeDave

May 2, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this

C.S.Lewis argued 50 years ago that the Death Penalty is not only about deterence, justice to be justice has to include “what is deserved” for the crime committed. We have lost this element in our judicial process due to the liberal elements in our institutions. Without this element, we become a society of only penal rehabilitation facilities. Our method of processing the Death Penalty has to be radically overhauled with expedient sentencing and less appeals. Which is the more “cruel and unusual punishment”, keeping a person on Death Row for 20+ years and/or on a life sentence or processing a death sentence decision in a fair and expedient manner. And what about the victims family’s and loved ones left behind when our justice system fails them.

By jason

May 2, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth creates a world of toothless blind people.

By DJ

May 2, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

I do not believe it is right for a culture that considers itself civilized to ever execute its citizens, under any circumstances. It disgusts me to think that anyone who calls themselves a Christian would consent to such a grotesque over-reach of government power.

By Brad

May 2, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

I would suggest a different standard for the death sentence, as there are certainly offenders who deserve to die. How anyone could argue that Gary Hilton should be kept alive is beyond me. To protect the possibly innocent, though, the ultimate penalty should only be imposed in a situation where a jury finds guilt “beyond ALL doubt” as opposed to “reasonable doubt”, or if the offender confesses.

By MDR

May 2, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

ANY ONE TAKING ANOTHER LIFE SHOULD BE HUNG BUT WE HAVE TO PAY TAXES TO KEEP THEM ALIVE AND TO BUILD PRISONS TO KEEP THEM ALIVE

By tom

May 2, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

The only problem with ‘life’ is in 20+ years some people will say he/she has paid their debt and should be released or more likely they will bring up the cost of keeping that person in prison…remember, everything is about cost!

By Shawny

May 2, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

‘Economic costs’ of the death penalty?!? Social I get, but economic?

For crying out loud, it is far far cheaper to bury them than give them room and board for life.

By J Moore

May 2, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

No, it is not time to end the death penalty; rather, we should implement it much sooner to be the deterrent it is supposed to be. Look at the case involving that guy who recently shot people in the courtroom. They can’t even get a trial going because of our flawed judicial system. We should have executed this dude the next day for heaven’s sake. It is time to make changes to the left-wing judicial system and provide timely executions. If you left-wing pussies can’t pull the switch, I will be glad to free of charge. Don’t listen to the likes of Tucker and Bookman, they do not represent the majority.

By Copyleft

May 2, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

Plenty of people deserve to die… do you have the right to kill them?

More chillingly: do you want GOVERNMENT to have that power?

By J.D.

May 2, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

The death penalty may not be the only way deter murderous crime, but it’s 100% guaranteed. Not one single criminal subjected to capital punishment has been recorded as a repeat offender.

Why place the burden of maintaining these individuals for upwards of 50 years onto the taxpayers? What kind of message is that sending?

By James

May 2, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

I will agree to end the death penalty if two conditions are met:

1) Life means LIFE in prison ! (AND the person convicted can have no contact with the outside world (no t.v., magazines or books AFTER the date of the death of their victim AND no contact with any friends or relatives. The victim is dead to his/her family and so should the person convicted be).

2) We quit killing our innocent unborn babies.

By steve

May 2, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

As a Christian, I could not support the death penalty.

By MCR

May 2, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

Ending the death penalty?

It just another reason prison administration must change to meet the growth and demand problem. As prison populations increase in size, the cost of housing inmates serving time for felonious attempts at crime rises. When those numbers grow, prison safety becomes a very dangerous undertaking and the cost of securing inmates takes the cost of operattions up another notch. So why is so important for the state to house and feed a person who is determined to take someone elses life? Many of those who face the death penalty for killing someone admit. Once they have served so many years in prison they prefer to be executed others hang themselves. Some men put it in writing. Because they just do not have the courage to face life on life’s terms. For people who live in prisons, whats left to do or hope for without prison reform. You can’t imagine what its like to be locked away in maximum security unless you’ve been there. It is very dehumanizing and many of the men who live there are determined to hurt someone at the first opportunity. So for many of the men who are serving life terms without parole, 24 hr. surveillance is manditory and even then with armed security watching and waiting? There are still attempts at violence and destruction. When a person who is bent on self destructing, keeping them in lock down means when ever a chance comes along to perform irradically? The old boys often do and the results of their exploits are usually desasterous. Most men who are determined to die all find a way. Now what can abolishing the death penalty do there? As far as human intervention can take us, nobody or their billygoat has ever been able to save a suicidal maniac on there way out. Not so far. But hard labor and a good night sleep is known to do wonders for a person who is usually idol most of the day. Reform is important to jailers and prisoners. But if it just won’t live what can you or I do? The death penalty is one way of saying no matter what, if anyone is stupid enough to kill another in cold blood. That person ought to lose their life for thinking it up and carrying it out. Its a political football. But thats the law and statistics do not bear the infulence or ability to change it. No matter what the numbers say.

By The Truth

May 2, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

Should the death penalty be abolished? Let me think about this for a second. Hmmm. Our tax money pays for 5 murderers trials and their 100 year prison sentence while a family grieves over their daughters rape and torture. I lean on the side of death penalty. Yes, there have been men/woman wrongly accused of a crime but it is VERY rare. Our prisons are overcrowded and crime is sky high in most cities.

Copyleft, what you fail to see is the EVIDENCE against the criminal that puts him/her on trial. The government is not going around killing this or that person at will. The world is better off if murderers are put to death. It sends a clear message to criminals to think twice.

By jason

May 2, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

Brad: a jury cannot prove anything “beyond all doubt” unless maybe all 12 members of the jury were actually eye witnesses.

Shawny: Total cost of death penalty is 38% greater than total cost of life without parole sentences. (Indiana Criminal Law Study Commission, January 10, 2002)

“A 1991 study of the Texas criminal justice system estimated the cost of appealing capital murder at $2,316,655. In contrast, the cost of housing a prisoner in a Texas maximum security prison single cell for 40 years is estimated at $750,000.” (Punishment and the Death Penalty, edited by Robert M. Baird and Stuart E. Rosenbaum 1995 p.109 )

By Bob

May 2, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Wow!!! End it?? It needs to be used 1st and I don’t mean just on murderers, it should be used on rapists, child molestors, armed robbers, drug dealers, car thieves, shoplifters and any other type crime. Oh but that would actually cut out crime in America and that would take away too many jobs so NFM!!!

By The Truth

May 2, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

steve, I’m a Christian and I whole heartedly support it for murderers.

By Logic

May 2, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

Is the death penalty a deterrent to crime?

In China, up until 1905, they executed people publicly by slow slicing, or “ling chi,” where people were essentially butchered alive before a gawking audience. In medievel Germany and France criminals were killed by “breaking on the wheel,” where the convict was strapped to a spoked wheel, had all of his limbs broken with a hammer, then weaved the “jelly-like” limbs through the spokes, and finally hoisted up to die slowly while being eaten alive by birds. In ancient Greece, people were baked alive in a bronze “brazen bull.” You would think that these spectacles would deter anyone from committing a crime.

However, the interesting thing about all this is that throughout history, there never seems to be a shortage of criminals to execute.

Don’t get me wrong, I have very little sympathy for murderers and rapists. I just think that the death penalty is impracticle.

Despite some misconceptions, 1. it doesn’t seem to deter crime 2. it is actually more expensive to execute a criminal than to incarcerate him for life.

Due to this impracticality, I think that the risk of executing an innocent man should outweigh any sense of justice (i.e. vengence) gained by execution. Life in prison is hell on Earth, it’s not as if criminals are being spared from punishment.

Also, innocent people do make it onto death row, and it may happen more often than some people might think. Frankly, whether it’s “rare” or not, I think even 1 wrongly executed human being is 1 too many.

Finally, as to raising the evidence bar to 100% certainty of guilt before execution is sought, perhaps that’s alright. I would just add 1 thing. If it’s later proven that the jury was wrong, those individual members ought to be liable for wrongful death. That will definately make certain that only the most horrendous and absolutely guilty will face this penalty.

By thefisherman

May 2, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

The Hebrew words לא תרצח are literally translated as “thou shalt not murder.

We know this to be fact because the death sentence of those times, stoning, was put forth by Moses himself. So as a Christian, I can indeed fully support the death penalty for murders.

You see, murderers have already chosen a path, there’s no reason to delay their meeting with God on eternity. And since our time here is so short. We need to focus our limited resources on helping the poor and sick instead.

What path have you chosen??

By zeke

May 2, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Do not abolish the death penalty without changing the “life” prisons to hard work, no amenities, no tv, no gym, nothing but hard labor work, only basic foods and medical care, no education. no legal rights, and, NO RAPE OF TAXPAYERS TO PAY FOR THIS SCUM! Abolish all prisoner rights groups, THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS!

By root4au

May 2, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

The only thing wrong with the death penalty is that we don’t administer it fast enough. Guilty today and execute tomorrow. That would deter crime big time..

By The Truth

May 2, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Logic, Point taken. It may not deter every criminal because nothing will. But, at least the death penalty gets rid of murderers. There is a case in Knoxville,Tn where 5 people raped, tortured and murdered 2 innocent college students. I’m 110% in favor of sending those 5 monsters to meet their maker. I lived in Memphis where crime is so out of control, a lot people are carrying guns and taking care of themselves because the police department and politicians do nothing.

By jason

May 2, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

fisherman: Didn’t Moses murder someone? Should he have been stoned? I can’t tell where you stand.

A fundamental problem with the death penalty is that every murderer is going to die anyway—you can’t sentence someone to death unless they would otherwise live forever. God has already given everyone the death penalty. It should not be up to man to chose when God’s will should be done.

By Blind Homer

May 2, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Another chance to learn from the Iraqis. Saddam was convicted and then promptly hung. Then it’s much cheaper because the costly appeals have been eliminated. BTW Bob, for car thieves and shoplifters you just cut off one of their hands for the first offense. Perjurers, like Martha Stewart, should have their tonques removed.

By justice

May 2, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Yes, it’s time to do away with it for a number of reasons. Most of which the ignorant masses will never understand but here goes anyway:

1) From an ethical perspective, if as has been proven it is not a deterrent, then it is purely retributive. As such, “Thou shalt not kill” would apply. Revenge should not be a factor in the justice system.

2) It is much cheaper to house a criminal for life than it is to execute them. Almost 10 times cheaper in fact. The court costs in death penalty cases are extreme. Look it up.

3) If, as has been seen regularly with the advances in forensic science, people are cleared of crimes after having served multiple years in prison, then one must consider it is just as probable that we have killed innocent people with the death sentence. I’m not real impressed with the IQ level of the average jury and I’d hate to know my life rested in their hands.

4) Now that we’ve given away most of our liberty through the Patriot Act and other such measures, isn’t it feasible that the government could one day turn on its citizens? And if they do, could they use this to “eliminate unrest”. Don’t say it could never happen here. There was this thing called the Civil War in which this very thing happend on both sides.

5) Finally, if Christians use the “sanctity of life” argument to outlaw abortion, how do they reconcile this with their support of the death penalty? More of a question I guess but one which should cause some concern for the logical thinkers out there.

By Yeah, sure

May 2, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

The needle has made the death penalty less of a punishment that a lifetime of being locked up. It’s a painless way out. The electric chair, gas chamber and gallows all carried an element of terror and promise of pain that made the punishment fit the crime in most cases. However, I think there should be more to a murderer’s life sentence than just sitting around doing time. They should be in solitary and eating Nutriloaf and water the entire time. Their reading material should be selected for them. They should be deprived of even the simplest freedom and any possibility of pleasure. It would probably shorten their lives, but the sentence would be a just punishment for taking the life of another.

By steve

May 2, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Why are we even debating this? The Supreme Court just upheld the constitutionality of lethal injection and suddenly its time to end it? If we streamlined the appeals process it wouldn’t be so damn expensive to execute these scum bags.

By Disgusted

May 2, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

I’m amazed that people are concerned that lethal injection is cruel and unconstitutional. Why would a man who bludgeoned and decapitated a beautiful young woman in the prime of her life be spared his rightful punishment. I’m sick of the bleeding hearts who have forgotten the victims who have died such horrific deaths. There is no place for them in our society. Lethal injection is too kind in my opinion.

By logic

May 2, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Good points Justice. Of all the statements that President Bush has made over the years, his rationale that we should always “error on the side of life” confused me the most considering that he was the Governor of Texas—the death penalty capital (where there’s still an awful lot of crime, incidentally).

Finally, for those who don’t worry about innocent people being executed, remember what happened last year in Durham, NC. What would you do if a Mike Nifong came after you?

By john

May 2, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Forgiveness is between God and the sinner. It is our job to facilitate the meeting (D. Washington - Man on Fire)

There is nothing to be lost by helping convicted killers keep their appointment. However, how can we correct a mistake?

By Round 'em up

May 2, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

It costs more to execute someone? Of course it does when they sit on Death Row for 20+ years, multiple appeals, and every other “luxury” of prison.

Let’s take the Brian Nichols case for instance…..WE ALL KNOW he committed the crimes, admitted to it, caught on multiple video cameras, multiple surviving witnesses, and we are still going through a incredibly expensive trial that is getting nowhere. In this instance, he should have been hung from the tallest tree or executed by Ole’ Sparky, lethal injection, whatever the method may be.

I think the underlying issue we are facing is the ACLU and other civil liberties / rights groups that attempt to protect these individuals rights. THEY SHOULD HAVE NO RIGHTS! They have committed crimes against society which should immediately revoke any rights they had or enjoyed.

Next, we make prison out to be a luxury vacation spot for many of these criminals. Forgive me if this sounds stereotypical, but the individuals committing the crimes have little to no worldly possessions and can barely make ends meet. Where else to go other than a place that provides 3 hot meals a day, shelter, education, games, workout facilities, religion, cable TV, and multiple other luxuries that even the homeless / poor cannot imagine. Let’s spend our money on rehabilitating the poor, homeless, war veterans, and others that need the assistance as opposed to individuals who deserve absolutely NO rights / luxuries. I know, some of you are thinking, luxuries, I would not consider prison luxury, but you must think from these individuals perspective.

Long story short, round ‘em up and execute them immediately as opposed to keeping them in the penal system for decades and spending tax payers hard earned money. Here’s a novel idea, take the money we are spending on prisons and super max facilities and pump it into the education system and correct the issues before they become issues. Our society is failing because we no longer have parents / families. Kids are raising kids and that does not work! Let’s teach children how to behave in society and let’s educate parents how to raise socially responsible children as opposed to being their friends and letting them do as they want. What ever happened to being home before the street lights came on?

Bring on the Electric Chair, or even electric sectional sofa, whatever it may be!

By Rev. Ike

May 2, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

Get rid of the electric chair and get some electric bleachers. No one wants to die alone. Then I will support the death penalty. It is cruel and unusual punishment to keep some poor guy on death row for 25 years. The day after the trial date, Have the execution at noon and the appeal around 1:30 or 1:45. That way people that attended the trial are still dressed. I’m sure both he and the victims family don’t want 2 decades to go by before he goes to meet his maker. Help these poor souls out. Execute them before they become a burden on the tax payer. I’m sure the ACLU will take comfort in knowing that the killer didn’t suffer mentally for 20 years or so. As to the comment that it’s cheaper to keep these people on death row than kill’em. Last time I was at the pawn shop bullets were kinda pricey but, if you buy a lot then they will give you a discount.

By leigh

May 2, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

For those of you only concerned with the economic situation caused by life without parole vs the death penalty I would simply encourage you to get the facts. Someone who has a life sentence costs SIGNIFICANTLY less than someone with a death sentence.

Here are some quick facts but do your own research too:

• The California death penalty system costs taxpayers $114 million per year beyond the costs of keeping convicts locked up for life. Taxpayers have paid more than $250 million for each of the state’s executions. (L.A. Times, March 6, 2005) • In Kansas, the costs of capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-capital cases, including the costs of incarceration. (Kansas Performance Audit Report, December 2003). • In Indiana, the total costs of the death penalty exceed the complete costs of life without parole sentences by about 38%, assuming that 20% of death sentences are overturned and reduced to life. (Indiana Criminal Law Study Commission, January 10, 2002). • The most comprehensive study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of sentencing murderers to life imprisonment. The majority of those costs occur at the trial level. (Duke University, May 1993). • Enforcing the death penalty costs Florida $51 million a year above what it would cost to punish all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole. Based on the 44 executions Florida had carried out since 1976, that amounts to a cost of $24 million for each execution. (Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000). • In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. (Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).

By Lisa

May 2, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Love that quote John!

The only problem with our death penalty is that we do not use it nearly enough nor do we use it quickly enough. 20 years on death row? Give me a break!

People have it better in prison than they have it in the real world. I’ve heard a family member refer to a jail he was in as “Bill’s Country Club”

In all these cases our judicial system seems to forget the victims in these crimes. The scumbags who are on death row don’t deserve the sweat off an marathoner’s azz.

By Copyleft

May 2, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

So, we have a wide assortment of arguments against it, from the economic and political to the ethical and religious.

*It’s not a deterrent—proven.

*It’s more expensive—also proven.

*It’s non-Christian—pretty airtight, given that “vengeance” is solely up to the Lord, not humans.

*It’s a dangerous surrender of freedom—also proven, given the precedents we’ve seen for government abusing any and all power it can get its hands on.

Is anything left… other than simpleminded bloodlust, of course?

By Potential Victim

May 2, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

1— Yes there should be a death sentence. 2— It should be imposed more often on killers, and the execution should take place within a couple years of the crime, not 10-20 years later. 3- Any method of execution that is not intended to be a form of torture is OK with me. We don’t owe them any duty to try our hardest to make the execution a pleasant experience that leaves their body unmarked. 4— Innocent people on death row? Yeah, that’s a valid concern. But we need to have an effective criminal justice system, too. If we say that a lifetime of “3 hots and a cot” with TV and library privileges and regular access to a fitness center is the most we can use to punish bad behavior— that will not be enough to stop some potential killers. Innocent people may die if we don’t deal strongly enough with evil men.

By Copyleft

May 2, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Lisa: You may be thinking of the “country club” minimum-security prisons, which are reserved solely for wealthy white prisoners with lots of political connections (usually to Republicans).

As for what’s “too good for them”—sounds like you’re talking about revenge again. All the “think of the victim” arguments are really about revenge. So I can confidently presume that NONE of you making such arguments are Christians, yes?

By Clay

May 2, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

I’m sure the people who cry the loudest against state-sponsored executions are the ones who say an abortion is a woman’s right. As a Catholic I can not support capital punishment—but I will admit that I am not as against it as I am against abortion.

By the way, Christians do not follow the teachings of Moses, we follow the teachings of Jesus. I do not believe Jesus would approve of executions.

By JoseyWells

May 2, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

“And yet, there is no convincing evidence that the death penalty deters offenders from killing.” Oh yeah, if he is executed he will not kill again. The costs are directly related to groups trying to do away with the death penalty. Hey, who said the state has to provide you with a 10million dollar lawyer. I dont have one.

By erpilot

May 2, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

Jason, the Bible clearly calls for blood to be spilled by those who spill blood. Gen 9:6 Whoever sheds man’s blood, By man his blood shall be shed. Capital PUNISHMENT is not only appropriate, it is justified. It is the final punishment on earth, and an early introduction to eternal punishment. If anything, the process needs to be streamlined, and these ridiculous appeals eliminated.

By jason

May 2, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Copyleft: No. There really isn’t anything else left. But I just don’t see much hope in trying to convince irrational, illogical minds to think rationally and logically.

Maybe these people could be convinced by using their own irrational prejudices against them. For example, I assume that some, if not many supporters of the death penalty are intolerant of other cultures and ideas. These people are closed-minded due to thier irrational thinking. I further assume (dangerously) that these are the same people who hate the Chinese, Iraqis, North Koreans, etc. So maybe when presented with the fact that the US is included with these exact same countries for “most executions annualy,” the closed-minded Americans will determine that the death penalty could not be a good thing if those other “evil” countries do it.

Wishful thinking…

By erpilot

May 2, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

to JUSTICE, reconciliation is easy for a Christian because we go by what the Bible says, not what we want it to say. Gen 9:14 is probably the best source. The key difference between capital punishment and abortion, and don’t forget infantcide, is who is killing whom. Capital punishment is the state killing a guilty murderer. Abortion is a person taking the life of an innocent victim unable to protect itself. Infantcide is the next step. USAToday recently had an article about doctors advising new parents of the “burden” of taking care of newbornes who are either very premature or otherwise challenged. Doctors are giving parents the “right” to stop feeding the child, starving it to death. It doesn’t take a genius to see the difference between state punishment and murdering infants.

By jason

May 2, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

erpiolet: You are correct. But doen’t the Bible (New Testament) mention something about forgiveness and turning the other cheek also? I think that your interpretation is vengeful. If you are ok with committing acts out of hatefulness then that is on you. I choose to forgive the sins of others as I have been forgiven. I forgive you too.

By Storm

May 2, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

I favor the death penalty 100%. I’m tired of this pansy attitude.

Better yet, if you are convicted of a crime that involves murder, torture, etc. you should be taken out back and shot right then and there.

No appeals, no sitting on Death row on the tax payers dollar for 30 years, just get it over and done with.

As a result of this, crime will drop 75%!!

By CherokeeDave

May 2, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Re:Copyleft 1.)You keep citing cost issues but your figures are based on the length of time a quilty person waits on Death Row. Speed up justice and that reduces your “logical” equation. 2.) Again, the deterrence issue. Liimit appeals,get the decision made and process the sentence. We don’t have the facts on deterrence under expedient conditions. 3.) C.S.Lewis, the most prominent Christian writer of the 20th century “logically” argues the basis of a Christians perspective on supporting the Death Penalty. I refer you to “God in the Dock”, the case for the death penalty. As a dedicated “Christian”, I could pull that cross-bow back in Deliverance and send that sicko about to sodomize and murder an innocent victim straight to his early designated appointment with God and not feel guilty about it. Would you ?? Before you quote the bible, you better have read it a little more thoroughly!

By David

May 2, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Gee, it’s so easy. When you’re dead, you’re definitely deterred. In addition to saving tax dollars from keeping them alive in prison for another 20, 30, 40 years. Cold, aren’t I?!

By hrw

May 2, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

We live in a world that says all wrong but be right. Very often people bring problems on themselves. Yes, the death penalty is wrong in many of our mind; it is not escapable and its always there. Prison facilities continue to be constructed by many states to do something with its trouble-maker, killers, murders and even those who are wrongfully convicted. What do we do with these when a jury of your peer vote to end your life and it is never carry out? None of us actually know if the death penalty is wrong or is it right. We make these assumptions based on what we see, hear and make our own recommendations and voice our opinion. What we do know is, those who comit crime against another person and that person die, there is a judgment that has to be carried out.

By Missy

May 2, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

@James—I like your first suggestion. I don’t care for the death penalty, so your idea is something I would agree to.

By Skeptic Tank

May 2, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

All state-sanctioned murder is wrong, but we simply need to remove the hypocrisy inherent in the argument. If every life is, indeed, sacred, then neither abortion nor capital punishment should be considered morally defensible.

By logic

May 2, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

I have a question for all the ‘tough guys’ on this board who want to string ‘em all up, get rid of these pansy appeals, and kill ‘em right after the trial.

Do you have the courage of your convictions? Would you serve on a jury, judge a man, and send him to his death knowing that if you are later proven wrong you will be personally culpable to the state and the wrongfully executed person’s family?

It seems only fair to me that if you wish to be ‘tough’ and cavalier about the death penalty then you too should suffer a consequence if and when an innocent life gets taken.

By rosita

May 2, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?

By jason

May 2, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Good question Rosita.

I have been opposed to the death penalty for a long time and not one argument for it in this informal forum has even come close to swaying me to think otherwise. If there is a valid reason to kill someone that is not vengeful or emotionally driven, I would like to hear it.

By Mark

May 2, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

If you are convicted of murder, rape, or any other violent crime, the judge should then say “Bailiff, put him/her down”. Then the bailiff proceeds to put a 50 cent bullet in the convicted’s head right there in the courtroom. Justice.

And to you illiterate xtians. Put yourself in the victim’s family shoes. Would you really be so forgiving?

By MDR

May 2, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

what some of you are saying give them guns pat them on the back and tell don,t do this again

By Steve

May 2, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

The death penalty might not deter someone from committing a capital crime, however, it SURE AS HELL PREVENTS THAT PERSON FROM DOING IT AGAIN.

By Bill

May 2, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

God said the wages of sin are death.The ten comanments are his laws.

By Round 'em up

May 2, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Logic….. I think you are missing one BIG point….if these individuals are guilty and EVERYONE knows 100% that they are guilty, they are the ones who should immediately be executed.

Examples of that include (but are not limited to): Brian Nichols, Jerry Jones, Jeffrey Dahmer, BTK Killer, Gary Hilton). These people have either admitted they committed the crimes, been caught on tape, seen by multiple victims / witnesses.

If the individual cannot be convicted immediately and there are questions regarding their guilt / innocence, they should be given a fair trial and the outcome decided by the judge and a jury of their peers.

By David

May 2, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

OK Jason, I’ll give you a good reason…it saves oxygen for the rest of us.

By hangemhigh

May 2, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Short ropes and tall trees solve crime problems immediately. Watching Atlanta dance around their Brian Nichols is hilarious. Doesn’t show me a lot of intelligence.

By chrism

May 2, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

As flawed as our justice system is, how can we ever justify the death penalty?

By Mark

May 2, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

rosita and jason

I’d love to hear your opinions after one of your loved ones was viciously tortured and murdered. I bet you would be singing a different tune out of your ignorant, pillow biting asses.

By WTF?????

May 2, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Having worked at a maximum security penitentiary I say there are alot of people that cannot be reformed. Fry them up. There should be a level of crimes that if convicted the penalty is death, and quick.

By Big BAMA

May 2, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Let all the Bleeding hearts who say it is inhumane to have a death penalty have the convicted killers and serial rapist come live with them. Wouldn’t they still feel safe. All they really need is love and understanding. I say you should not be on death row more than ten minutes. It takes that long to get the shots ready.

By Bob in Sandy Springs

May 2, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

End it after there are no more murderers, rapist or armed robbers. Then and only then. May not deter someone else, but at least they won’t be back on the streets to kill..MY WIFE or CHILDREN..

By Blind Homer

May 2, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Jason - Arguments are not illogical simply because you call them that. In fact, throwing in that forgiveness mumbo-jumbo makes you quite illogical (religions do not exist due to irrefutable logic, quite the opposite, they rely on faith in what is not logical). Whether it costs more or not is a comment on the current pathetic justice system (which may also impede the deterence) and should be irrelvant anyway as moral arguments should hinge on good or bad and right or wrong, not how much something costs! Raising those largely unwanted babies to adulthood is definitely more expensive than aborting them, but is it right? And it is about punishment. We, as a society establish laws, which include punishment for breaking them.

By hangemhigh

May 2, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

With capital punishment you are bound to kill a few innocent people but it pales in comparison to the slaughter of innocent people occuring in our area daily. Short ropes and tall trees will solve this problem immediately.

By Mack_the_Knife

May 2, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

6.6 Billion on the planet and growing. We aren’t shorting the gene pool by getting rid of the chaff.

By Mark

May 2, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

logic

I’d gladly do it in a heartbeat.

By Ima Criminalcoddler

May 2, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

I feel so sorry for these bloodthirsty killers because folks are wanting to put them away forever. Just because they rape,murder,burn,mutilate,etc,etc, some lawabiding innocent citizen is no cause to burn them. Just think, their right to murder again are taken away from them forever. OhGawd, I cannot bear to think of that.

By Michael Westray

May 2, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

I think the people that oppose the death penality should take the prisoner into their home to live with them for a couple of months. if they are still alive for that long, their daughter hasn’t been raped, and all of their belongings are still in tact, then maybe that one can be rehabilitated. I think it would surely wake up the opposer!!

By Skeptic Tank

May 2, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

I would guarantee you that 98% of the pro-death penalty bloggers populate a church pew on Sunday, listening to the message of Jesus Christ, but venting their hatred and revenge for the remaining 167 hours of the week. Some of them will complain that America is no longer a CHRISTIAN nation because we’ve taken GOD out of our schools…totally ignorant of the fact that their venomous support of state-sanctioned murder is as anti-Christian as it can get.

By Blind Homer

May 2, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Logic - There are vastly more guilty parties eventually set free during the appeal process on some technicality than those that are truly proven innocent later. Are you willing to be held fully culpable for the crimes those set free commit? Additionally, what’s so great about the innocent spending 40 years in jail instead of being mercifully executed?

By doodie buddy

May 2, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

I belive in 2 eyes for an eye. This guy in Gordon Co. needs to have his family waxed in front of him before he goes himself for what he did to that lady. People like that should be a non-issue. Kill them already. What good do you think they are going to do for anyone in jail? (Or anywhere else for that matter.)

By doodie buddy

May 2, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

I believe in 2 eyes for an eye. This guy in Gordon Co. needs to have his family waxed in front of him before he goes himself for what he did to that lady. People like that should be a non-issue. Kill them already. What good do you think they are going to do for anyone in jail? (Or anywhere else for that matter.)

By J Moore

May 2, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Hey Skeptic Tank—What Bible do you have? You certainly do not have the one with the Old Testament law. And you must not have the New Testament either because Jesus said He did not come to change even one comma of The Law, which was the OT Law. I think you just made up your version of Christianity.

By Logic

May 2, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Round ‘em up,

I think that you’re missing one BIG point, the juries for all murder trials convict people with the mandate that they’re ‘guilty beyond reasonable doubt.’ And yet, innocent people get convicted and even put on death row. It’s not only the Dahmers and BTK killers that are being exectued.

In fact, today is an appropriate day to have this discussion. I’ll direct you to an article in today’s Charlotte News and Observer titled “Death row inmate to go free.” In my home state of North Carolina, they just dropped the charges and released a man who spent 13 years on death row. If it had been up to some of you on this board, he would have been wrongly executed.

Of course, North Carolina is the same state where 3 innocent Duke students were falsely prosecuted for rape last year by a malicious DA who manipulated evidence. Of course, the accused had the means to defend themselves and a horde of media to help them out. But how often do you suppose that an over-worked, or dishonest DA rams a capital case through when he’s “sure” that the accused is guilty but is missing some key evidence? Wonder if it ever happens and we just don’t hear about it? Think that never happens in GA?

I’m not too worried about what happens to people guilty of murder—as long as they’re locked up. I do care, however, about what happens to innocent people who get caught up in capital crime cases. To me, the argument boils down to whether or not it’s worth it to kill 1 innocent man in order kill 9 guilty ones. In my opinion, hell no.

I suppose we all just disagree. God help all of you, though, should you all ever find yourselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. If that ever happens, I imagine you’ll be praying that a stupid bleeding heart liberal is on your jury.

By Bill

May 2, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

Hey skeptic Tank———You handle your s** we’ll handle ours.

By WTF?????

May 2, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Michael, that’s a good suggestion.

Listen folks, there are people in this world that just don’t mind killing you, your kids, family, and friends. They don’t process info the way you do. The sad part is you could wind up in jail trying to defend yourself from these people. I say even beyond murderers we should jolt child molesters, rapists, and anyone else that committs cowardly crimes. How the hell you can look at a child and get sexually excited is beyond me.

As for the deterrent. It would take about 2 weeks for people to get the message. After that the crime rate will drop rapidly. It’s going to come at some point anyway. Look at the recent news headlines. Folks have lost their minds. They need to be thinned out.

By Blind Homer

May 2, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Skeptic T - Are you saying if someone breaks in your house you’re going to stand idly by while he tortures and mutilates your family because “thou shalt not kill” and your loving jesus won’t let you into heaven if you kill him to protect your family?

By doodie buddy

May 2, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Hey Logic- I absolutely LOVE the breaking on the wheel thing! SWEET! Now that is how it is done, folks! In case you didn’t read it:

criminals were killed by “breaking on the wheel,” where the convict was strapped to a spoked wheel, had all of his limbs broken with a hammer, then weaved the “jelly-like” limbs through the spokes, and finally hoisted up to die slowly while being eaten alive by birds

By Skeptic Tank

May 2, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

J Moore:

The Bible you’re reading from is the J Moore Abridged version, a special edition that only you can follow, because you have carefully picked and chosen the passages that are suitable to you, and discarded the rest.

If you can leave church on Sunday having heard the word of Christ, and feel good about sanctioning murder, then you are a nutcase…and a hypocrite.

By Tony

May 2, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Fortunately, people such as logic and his ilk are in the minority. The majority of the people of this country support some sort of death sentence for heinous vile crimes. If you read the case histories of just the killers on Georgia’s death row, it will make your hair(if you have any) curl up or fall out. These aren’t people we are talking about here, these are monsters who forfeited their right to live when they took innocent human life.

There is a murderer sitting on death row in our state right now who drowned a little girl in a creek back in 1976, who got a new trial because some pantywaist judge ruled that he was treated “unfairly” in his first trial. I lived not two miles from where this little girl’s body was found and remember the horror of that crime. This monster should have been taken out and shot in the back of the head after the jury found him guilty but he has been living off of my (and your) tax dollars for 32 years.

All who “oppose” the death penalty have never had a family member murdered by one of these vicious monsters. If they had they’d either keep their mouths shut or they would be singing a different tune.

One trial, one appeal, and then swift and sure punishment.

By Blind Homer

May 2, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Logic - Dahmer was executed, not by the state, but by a fellow inmate that was able to kill poor Jeff because the state hadn’t executed him!

By Skeptic Tank

May 2, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Hey Bill:

I’m handling my s* just fine…and offsetting your vote along the way.

If you like siding with hypocrites, that’s your business, Bill.

By Dwaine Pipe

May 2, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Skeptic Tank,

Focus on the message instead of the actions of people sitting in pews. Most are no different than the so-called progressives esponging bigotry and intolerance.

Of course, there’s only been one perfect man. Thankfully…

By Logic

May 2, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Hey Blind Homer,

I guess that proves my earlier point that life in prison is not mercy.

Hey Tony,

I’m sure that everyone who’s in favor of the death penalty have never been falsely accused and/or had someone close to them falsely accused.

Hey Doo-doo buddy,

Yeah, breaking on the wheel is pretty sweet, huh. Sounds like you were just born in the wrong century, bet you would have loved going to see it. Taking the kids, having a little picinic. Would’ve been great.

There’s an interesting side story on the Brazen bull you might like. Some historical documents claim that the inventor of the bull was it’s first victim. And the king for whom the bull was made was also killed in it. Poetic justice.

By Blind Homer

May 2, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Logic - That NC case is not a clear-cut example of the innocent going free. The conviction was overturned and one of the key witnesses recanted but that doesn’t mean he’s innocent. Probably just another murderer back on thestreets to do it again and you think that’s a good thing?

By Logic

May 2, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

The key witness against the accused lies and you think that he’s still probably guilty—and deserving of death? Good God.

This is my whole point—people are being condemned to death based on shaky evidence and you don’t think that a few innocent people are going to fall through?

Again, I’ll reiterate my earlier point. If proponents of the death penalty are willing to put their own neck’s on the line when serving as jurists and deciding whether a man should live or die—then go for it. I wouldn’t argue with you then.

By Blind Homer

May 2, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Logic - I agree with you in a few areas. Life in prison with no parole possible isn’t that great even with the TV’s. Personally, I kind of like the Escape from New York scenario. Keep them away from us and let them kill each other off. I don’t want to see the innocent die either.

By Thor

May 2, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

I find it interesting that the Right Wing claims on abortion that “only God can take a life” but yet they are so eager to fry ‘em.

The Left Wing has no problem ripping a fetus out of the womb but yet they proclaim the death penalty is morally wrong.

I’m in favor of the death penalty for Congress!

By Carlos

May 2, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

I favor death penalty. When a person violates another person’s human rights that person should have no rights at all. Execute those animals and do it fast! Why pay for monsters to live while the money could go elsewhere? Would you agree to supporting someone after they brutally raped and murdered your wife and kids?

By willbeezy

May 2, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

Anyone who has not had a family member or loved on cold blooded murdered needs to shut up b/c your opinion does not matter. Let those who have been effected by this speak everyone else just shut up.

By Cruzin

May 2, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

No it’s not time to end executions, it’s time to speed the process up. No one should be on death row for 18-20 years. Once given the death sentence, there should be one appeal made, and then the piece of trash should be executed. What we have now are blood sucking parasites that call themselves lawyers that make a fortune entering one phony appeal after another. The death penalty shouldn’t be a money maker for lawyers, it should serve as swift justice for the sicko’s that commit crimes against humanity.

By willbeezysatool

May 2, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

Oh wow, strong point there willbeezy, telling people to shut up in an opinion forum. If you dont want to see anothers opinion simply dont read it!

By sanity please!!

May 2, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

And this on the same day that yet ANOTHER person in this country has been exhonerated and released from prison after serving 15 years for a crime that he didn’t commit: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/story/1058368.html

It’s appalling that our justice system has so many flaws and it’s appalling that people don’t see the atrocities. We have a flawed system. Who made the courts & jurors God?

Obviously no amount of sympathy can make up for the loss of a murdered loved one to a family. But killing a person in revenge isn’t going to make them feel better. And how about the family of the convicted? Do we need to continue punishing them too? Did they do anything wrong and deserve the pain of having their family murdered?

With the amount of wrongful convictions and exhonerations in this country perhaps we should follow the lead of actually civilized nations and put an end to capital punishment.