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DEL.ICIO.USTraffic to take heavy toll on metro Atlanta
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Before the recent legislative session, House Speaker Glenn Richardson joined Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle and leaders of the state Senate in pledging to find a new source of transportation funding. All parties seemed to recognize the importance of giving metro Atlanta some means of dealing with crippling traffic.
“I’m willing to do anything except continue to do nothing,” Richardson said.
“We’re going to get a funding bill out this session,” Senate Majority Leader Tommie Williams promised.
Yet they did not. And in the wake of the Legislature’s failure, you’re left with one of two conclusions: Either Georgia’s legislative leadership is simply too incompetent to get the job done, or some of them weren’t really all that sincere in supporting a transportation solution.
Personally, I lean to the second explanation. If leaders of both legislative chambers are honestly committed to achieving something, it usually gets done. But if they merely want to look like they’re trying to get something done, well, there are ways to arrange that as well.
So far, a lot of the blame for failing to act on transportation has fallen on Cagle and his Senate colleagues. On the last night of the session, while the House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly for a regional sales tax proposal, that same proposal fell three votes short in the Senate. And while Richardson gave a stirring speech in the House favoring the proposal, Cagle’s support was, shall we say, more muted.
In an interview, Cagle called that perception unfair, saying he too backed the concept of a regional transportation sales tax. But he noted that some senators did have serious concerns.
Asked whether he might have shared those concerns, Cagle declined to answer.
Looking ahead, Cagle rattled off a series of next steps, such as revising state law to allow transportation funds to be spent where the need is greatest. Under current law, much of that money is instead allocated equally among congressional districts. Reforming the dysfunctional state Department of Transportation must also be a priority, he said.
However, while both those steps are necessary, neither addresses the huge chasm between the need for new transportation capacity and the slim resources available to build it. To bridge that gap, Cagle embraces what he and others call “market-based solutions.”
In the short term, he said, HOV lanes on I-85 and I-75 should be converted as soon as possible to toll lanes, with motorists in effect buying the right to travel in less congested lanes. He also embraced the granting of concessions — allowing private companies to build new highways and recover their investments through tolls. For example, he said, such a market-based approach could be used to build an east-west connnector in North Georgia joining I-75 and I-85, resurrecting the notion of a Northern Arc.
However, those are limited and in some cases impractical solutions. Converting HOV lanes to toll lanes might speed travel for those able to pay, but it would leave everybody else still stewing in traffic. And an east-west connector would almost certainly fail to generate enough toll revenue to pay for itself.
Tellingly, Cagle didn’t volunteer transit as an option. When asked, he said, “Transit is very important. Every city the size of Atlanta has a significant transit piece.” But when I mentioned that building transit would require a tax increase, Cagle’s enthusiasm waned. “There’s some question of how that issue gets resolved,” he said.
The appeal of “market-based solutions” is obvious: Theoretically, they offer politicians a self-financing means of solving a very expensive problem. But toll-based approaches work best when commuters are a captive market and have no alternative but to pay a toll. (That’s why tunnels and bridges are so often tolled — they offer the only way to get from here to there.)
And that, in the end, may be part of the reason a regional transportation tax didn’t pass. Such a tax, and the transportation alternatives it would finance, might be viewed as a threat to those eyeing a market-based approach.
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By yankee
April 17, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this
Pay to play in the HOV lane. Do these people ever drive around Atlanta? Hardly anyone uses them now, if you charge They become a ghost lane.
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
April 17, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this
Hi Jay,
Nice bit. As usual, you’re singing the right song, but it doesn’t really matter. The folks running the state are only competent at enriching themselves, not making Georgia a better place to live.
And, more disturbingly, the people of this state haven’t yet figured that out.
Go Fish!
By sml
April 17, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
I disagree with Jay - its INCOMPETANCE! If they were competent they would tell the truth AND get it done!
By CJ
April 17, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this
The real problem is that metro Atlantans are not making it a bigger issue. If it was important enough to all of us, we would be holding protests, petitions, and more to get our message across. As soon as people park in their home garages, they forget what they just went through to get home and focus on the next task at hand. Just thinking out loud here… if instead, drivers could phone in to a hotline their traffic suggestions (or vents!) to their Local and State representatives while they are in the car feeling the pain, maybe we could get something accomplished. Let’s say there are 200k cars in rush hour every day. If even half of those people called in to complain, that’s 100k voices 5x per week, 52 weeks per year. That might get the message across!
By Steve
April 17, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this
This city is ridiculous. Raising water prices because they can’t make enough money to run the water dept because people are conserving.
Charge to ride in HOV lanes, when gas prices are so high people can barely afford to drive to work.
New condo buildings everywhere with no real road system, transit system, or infrastructure to handle the exploding intown growth.
What the hell is going on with this city? Dems and Republicans alike - pitiful.
By Transit Please!
April 17, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this
Transit is the answer to Atlanta’s problems. And when I say transit, I mean all counties contributing their fair share and working together to form a regional network that makes sense. Aside from upgrading existing roadways and intersections, there’s not much else that we can do to improve traffic in Atlanta because most of the land is already developed. So for this reason, transit is the only way to support the growth that we’ve been blessed/cursed with for the past few decades. Otherwise, growth will stagnate and air quality will be awful! So this is what we need to convince our leaders to support, come on everybody!
By laner
April 17, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
I know most of us know at least one CEO who has considered ATL for their headquarters because of the airport only to not come because of the traffic. I also know an executive who came for six months and left because of the traffic. In the end, choking the pocketbook of the state will kill us all. The political leaders have done nothing for 20-years , but talk. And you still can’t get from Duluth to Alpharetta or Athens to Cobb county in a single lifetime.
By laner
April 17, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
I know most of us know at least one CEO who has considered ATL for their headquarters because of the airport only to not come because of the traffic. I also know an executive who came for six months and left because of the traffic. In the end, choking the pocketbook of the state will kill us all. The political leaders have done nothing for 20-years , but talk. And you still can’t get from Duluth to Alpharetta or Athens to Cobb county in a single lifetime.
By laner
April 17, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
I know most of us know at least one CEO who has considered ATL for their headquarters because of the airport only to not come because of the traffic. I also know an executive who came for six months and left because of the traffic. In the end, choking the pocketbook of the state will kill us all. The political leaders have done nothing for 20-years , but talk. And you still can’t get from Duluth to Alpharetta or Athens to Cobb county in a single lifetime.
By zeke
April 17, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this
You people need to get off the mass transit religion! This will help nothing! HOV lanes help nothing! To solve or at least drastically reduce traffic, the Outer Beltway, or, a direct route version of it needs to be built immediately to take traffic that does not need to go into the 285 loop or downtown away from those areas! Legally ban through trucks, those with no business inside those loops, from entering under the threat of enormous fines that would put a strain on their incomes! Encourage all motorists that do not have Atlanta or the inner loops as a destination to use these pass by roads to avoid the city, DO NOT ENCOURAGE OR FORCE THEM INTO THE CITY! This would also allow workers who do not need to enter the loop to go from one area to another to “bypass” those areas and relieve traffic! Eliminating the ridiculous hov lanes would ease congestion from 15% to 25% immediately based on the number of lanes in the roadways where they exist! Use some common sense for a change!
By WestSider
April 17, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this
I agree with the previous poster who mentioned that mass transit is not the end-all be-all answer to our problems. Mass transit has its own set of negative side effects (namely that it decreases the property values and yes…it brings crime)
How about the only obvious answer. This one would cost very little: Telecommuting. The technology exists for most knowledge workers (roughly 50% of the workforce) to telecommute at least 2-3 days a week. This would save untold millions in infrastructure maintenance and wasted gas. It would make us less dependent of foreign oil and would make workers MORE productive (think of all the time you waste talking to co-workers about what was on television last night).
Telecommuting is the only solution that can be implemented immediately and won’t cost the taxpayers millions of dollars.
By rd
April 17, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
Given Atlanta’s crime, traffic, and high cost of every thing…..AAAAAAAHHHHH….South East Georgia never looked better!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By rd
April 17, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Given Atlanta’s crime, traffic, and high cost of every thing…..AAAAAAAHHHHH….South East Georgia never looked better!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
April 17, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Westsider,
I think you might be wrong about the property values and crime.
Check the property values around the North Springs, Sandy Springs, Lindbergh, Arts Center, Inman Park, Candler Park, College Park and East Lake Stations. I don’t know much about the west side stations.
As far as crime, I don’t believe you can show a trend towards increased crime around marta stations, but I’d be interested to see that if you can.
So unfortunately, you’re just uninformed.
In reality, the big disadvantage to mass transit is that the ship has already sailed…right of way is so expensive at this point that buying the land to lay new rail is really, really ‘spensive. We’d just be playing an expensive game of catch-up.
Real leadership would have addressed this problem in the early 80s. Cobb and Gwinnette counties taking a pass on Marta didn’t help a bit either.
Sucks for them.
By ByteMan
April 17, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
WestSider says that mass transit brings crime and decreased property value. Of course, he says that with complete confidence and absolutely nothing like facts to back him up.
Let’s see facts before spouting poorly informed opinion!
For example, try explaining why intown property values are booming… and they have mass transit. Try explaining why people who live in brand new homes up near Acworth, without mass transit, are having trouble selling their homes.
Try explaining how mass transit increases crime. Are you saying that people are going to take mass transit to the burbs, rob someone, and then take transit back home? You really expect thinking people to believe that??
Start with facts. Then form opinions.
By skullcap
April 17, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
As a proponent of “market-based” solutions, I am just as strong a supporter of the raising of local revenues to finance needed improvements.
With all due respect to Mr. Bookman’s largely well-reasoned perspective, the piece that falls short is the blind assumption that the industry seeking to build tolled-facilities is somehow against the taxation scenarios that were vetted through the recent legislative sessions. Nothing could be further from the truth!
As part of the industry seeking to realize both local and regional transportation improvements, I and my peers are fully aware that there is no one right solution.
Flexibility is key and we’ve been doing our darndest to encourage our employees, as metro-area residents, to encourage their representatives to enact the very legislation that died in the State Senate.
We’re not likely to invest our resources in building and operating any but the most heavily traveled (i.e., profitable) thoroughfares. But that leaves plenty of surface streets, bridges, sidewalks and multi-use paths to be financed by other mechanisms.
Only, the skyrocketing costs associated with a tumbling economy, there are few extant resources to do much more than maintain what our public works agencies and DOT has already built.
Yes, in our “growth at any cost” haste to shoehorn the metro-area with accessible roads, we’ve woefully neglected to provide effective commuting alternatives to traffic congestion. We’ll be paying for that sin a lot longer than most of us care to stomach.
Teleworking and flexible work hours are just one vector, but surely the most-implementable in the near term. By the way, these are also “market-based” solutions.
Let’s please try to stop quibbling over whether or not tolled facilites make sense and accept that there are circumstances where they do and many where they do not.
However, that still leaves us with the nagging question of whatever shall we do and however shall we go?
Frankly my dear, if I were considering Atlanta as the base of operations for the world’s largest airline, I’d be giving a (great big)damn right about now.
By Jay Bookman
April 17, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Thanks, Skullcap. A good point well-made.
By LJ
April 17, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
All one has to do to figure out what projects the legislature deems “important” is to see what is “left over” on the LAST DAY of the session, which seems to be just about everything except the few pet projects that have already been voted in and fully funded. Call me ignorant but I have yet to figure out why everything has to be done into the late hours on the LAST day. What are these people paid to do during the rest of the session?
As far as transit? After a long “battle” to keep the service, the ridership of one county can now boast the fact that as of August 1, 2008 their routes will be the Number 2 highest-priced commute in the entire United States, second only to Washington, D.C. and surrounding areas. That means the other cities/areas which provide everything from local bus service all the way up to light rail are charging their riders LESS. Atleast those folks (including the D.C. riders) have a multitude of services to choose from and they can actually get somewhere!
The MARTA train is a joke, it’s the “train that goes nowhere”. The commuter bus services are GREAT but their routes and ridership are so limited because the legislature refused to fund the Governor’s proposed 13 million dollar budget for capital (money to purchase more busses)!
The frustration comes because more and more people want to ride the bus, they are told they need to conserve, yet the very government that tells us we need to conserve and find alternate ways to commute…refuse to make that possible!
The people of Georgia are not getting their money’s worth when it comes to their government either at the local or State level. They are totally frustrated because, just as with the national government, they have come to the conclusion that they count only for a vote. The “powers that be” seem to care less otherwise.
No matter whether the members of the Georgia Legislature are incompetent or uncaring, they all need to be replaced during the next election.
We need someone who will listen to the transit authorities who are trying to get more funding to purchase more busses because the ridership has increased to the point where they can no longer expand the routes. As it is, the only question is “What level of capacity are the commuter routes running now?” The answer being “At or near full capacity to the point where there are many busses with ‘standees’ now.”. When a commissioner then asks…”The ridership would increase if more busses were added?” (not verbatim but the same question anyway)…the listener wonders how long it took that person to figure that out. Unfortunately, even after the question has been asked, there seems to be no desire to take the problem beyond that point.
People who have moved to Georgia recently are beginning to wonder why. Georgia is a great state unfortunately…it is not a “progressive” state.
I hope that fact changes in the very near future.
By skullcap
April 17, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
It seems most of MARTA’s detractors share these common bonds:
1) it’s not close-enough to their work or home to be of much use
2) they’re obstinately resolute that paying $3.50 per gallon to sit idle in traffic, for which they don’t want to be taxed to improve, has got to be the best solution
MARTA has two huge hurdles to transcend, namely the State House and State Senate. After that, it’s free to run.
While the state government has oversign and voting authority on MARTA, it refuses to provide requisite matching fuds for its operations and expansion.
THe MARTA rail system was born crippled by a desire to avoid public controversy from tunneling and place the original routes on surplus rail property, where few lived and even fewer would complain.
The coups-de-gras came from the Georgia DOT’s expansion of nearly 3 miles of roadways at the same time each mile of the MARTA rapid rail was being built.
Arguments that rapid rail brings crime and falling property values has got to be one of the most feeble forms of xenophobia. For those who don’t even know what the word means, you’re most likely to be afflicted by it.
Metropolitan areas like Washington DC, have enjoyed skyrocketing property values near transit nodes. One needs only to look at Georgetown, the infamous high-dollar community on DC’s west side, to see that - in it’s refusal of the metro-rail - it neither enjoys the accesibility nor the property valuation increases that been realized by metro-accessible communities. Yes it’s posh, high-dollar real estate, but it also suffers from crumbling streets and buried utilities that would have been modernized as a result of disturbance from subway construction.
I live inside 285 and formerly enjoyed carefree commutes on MARTA until my place of employment changed. I saved buckets of money being able to use transit and welcome its expansion inside 285. I just don’t want to lavish its benefits on those OTP, who scorn urban public transportation, while listening to the sucking-sound of wind from their wallets.
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
April 17, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
LJ,
Why do marta trains “go nowhere”?
Think it through.
By We Need trains
April 17, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
We need a train to Macon-Savannah, a train to Birmingham, a train to Charlotte, a train to Athens, a train to Chattanooga. You combine a well done train system with Hartfield-Jackson airport, and this metro area is unquestionably the business capital of the South. But Charlotte is a worthy competitor, and they are way ahead with rail and transit. If they ever get their airport expanded and its a competitor to our’s, we’re in trouble.
By RealityKing
April 17, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
ABOLISH THE HOV LANE! It is a danger to drivers and the environment.
1) Road deaths due to HOV lane exit ramps, not to mention the mindless drivers cutting across 5 lanes to get into and out of it.
2) 5 lanes of bumper to bumper traffic and 1 almost completely empty lane create MORE CO2 emissions than 6 lanes traveling at the same speed.
3) Enormous amounts of new bureaucracy, custom patrol cars and “safety officers” just for this one lane.
i.e…, A LOT MORE tax dollars, WASTED.
4) Numerous accidents caused by rubberneckers watching said “Safety Officers” instead of the road, Safety Officers who seem to enjoy putting themselves and everyone else on the road in danger. Is there a max IQ requirement for these guys??
5) Reverse social engineering never succeeds as the current use of the HOV lane is less than 10 yrs ago. Also see recycling and sin taxes..
By hrw
April 17, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
The will always be some type of situtations of bogging down traffic for all of us; taking nothing into consideration. I think it a norm that traffic impeding on its travlers make’s something for those who actual do it. Mass-transit, different counties; saling of homes, intown property; etc, has nothing to do with traffic. People live and travel where they need or want too. The state of Georgia did not do a good job vamping out travel within or through its cities; that was not a good thing to do! Traffic tie-ups send the wrong message then, now and for the future. No body going anywhere…..yet!
By ?traffic
April 17, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
I have lived in the area since 96. Lived in Smyrna for a year and had a little bit of traffic to deal with. Lived in Atlanta for 10 years and never had to deal with crazy traffic like you hear daily. Maybe I am just lucky, but my commutes to different jobs have been a breeze living ITP. My almost 5 year old car has less then 30,000 miles on it!
By commonsense
April 17, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
STOP ISSUING BUILDING PERMITS!!
Just think, we could solve both the traffic and housing crisis at the same time.
By lenlarga
April 17, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
?traffic,
You are making me jealous. When I first moved to Atlanta, I lived and worked in Midtown, making my ‘commute’ a five block walk. Now, with changes in work and home, I have progressively moved to a 30 mile commute in which I have to transit I-285 and I-75.
I didn’t plan it that way, but I suspect I am the rule and you are the lucky exception.
By WestSider
April 17, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Byteman,
Actually there are some facts to support the idea that mass transit, and in particular MARTA can cause an increase in crime. Professor Keith R. Ihlanfeldt of Washington University did a study of Atlanta, GA and mass transit and concluded that given the right mix of circumstances the introduction of a MARTA station did cause crime rates to increase. It also concluded that in some cases it did not change…so I guess if you are the lucky type you will be ok.
Property values all over town are decreasing currently. I live in-town and it is not “booming” as you say. There is, in fact a surplus of in-town housing that is depressing the market. Perhaps YOU should check your facts before forming your opinions.
Here are some real facts from Zip Realty
Average Sales Price Jan-08 Feb-08
Canton $282,379 $281,822
Marietta $254,403 $245,695
*Atlanta $332,199 $263,454 *
By TPA
April 17, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
WestSider,
While I appreciate you bringing academic studies into this discussion, the findings of the gentleman you quote unfortunately disagree with your previous statement.
While it is true that crime MAY increase in central-city neighborhoods (i.e. Downtown, Midtown) due to rail transit, the opposite has been proven to be the case in the transit-fearing, white suburban neighborhoods that need more transit, not less. Allow me to quote from Dr. Ihlenfeldt’s (yes, THAT Dr. Ihlenfeldt) article “Rail Transit and Neighborhood Crime: the Case of Atlanta, Georgia.” (Southern Economic Journal, 2003)
“The results show that rail stations have a statistically significant effect on neighborhood crime and that the effect varies with three characteristics of the neighborhood: median income level, density of poverty, and average distance to poor people living outside the neighborhood. The mix of characteristics found within central city neighborhoods has resulted in transit increasing crime there, whereas in the suburbs transit has reduced crime in white neighborhoods and has had no effect on crime in black neighborhoods. The results suggest that the fears expressed by suburban residents over station-induced neighborhood crime are unfounded and that extensions of rail transit into the suburbs will not cause further decentralization of population and employment.”
In other words, your “lucky types” are exactly the SUV-driving OTP folks who are stuck in traffic all day because of their own, unfounded fears.
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
April 17, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
Westsider,
To follow up on TPA’s comments, how about if we compare/contrast the number of people who die each year in traffic related accidents in Atlanta with the number of people who are victims of transit related crime.
If the number of people mugged/robbed/assualted, etc in and around transit stations was anywhere near the number of deaths that occur each year in Atlanta, that would be a crime epidemic.
Yet I never hear anyone say that the roads in Atlanta are dangerous.
By Carbon Footprint
April 17, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
I have repeatedly offered to solve the gridlock of traffic in the atlanta metro area for years now, but nobody want to hire me. I can solve it for less than 10 million dollars. Permanently.
But I guess you commuters would rather just sit in traffic than let a genius do his thing.
Fine with me.