Opinion Talk

By By Love

April 16, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Any belief is dangerous when carried to extremes, I can only feel pity(mixed with disgust) when people wrap themselves in a shroud of intolerance and fanaticism.

By Copyleft

April 17, 2008 7:52 AM | Link to this

And have any atheists been doing that? I certinly haven’t seen much more than atheists openly declaring their views and arguing the advantages of their position.

Coulda SWORN that’s kinda what America’s all about….

By Nikita

April 17, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

As an agnostic, I consider both religion and atheism somewhat misguided. Perhaps we can personally know what is out there, but as a society we cannot assert that belief for anyone else.

By Michael

April 17, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

Go ahead and call them a fundamentalist “religion” if you want. I’m sure they’d enjoy the tax exempt status that other “religions” have.

By Martin

April 17, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this

Are there militant atheists? Sure. Christopher Hitchens and Sam Davis come immediately to mind.

Are they “dangerous”? No. Their arguments, while interesting, are as demagogic as the flip side of the coin but they don’t advocate hurting people.

I think the whole line of ‘is this line of thought dangerous’ is a sham. Philosophy and ideas are never dangerous. What people do with/about those ideas are dangerous. Whether your Christian, Muslim, Athiest, or a devout follower of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (look it up) you have an inalienable right to believe what you want to believe. That does not make you dangerous.

Remember ideas don’t hurt people - people hurt people.

By Red

April 17, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this

Say what? That’s a new one. I haven’t heard or seen any evidence of this “threat.” Sounds like some kind of scare tactic from the far right. Kinda like this misguided idea that there is some kind of threat to the Christian religion from the US Government. I haven’t seen that either except in the minds of those who continue to bring it up.

By Jim

April 17, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this

As a student in college I felt threatened by atheist instructors who held my grades in their hands. It is lethal to our way of life and freedom of thought. Atheism is a form of tyranny because the Constitution which we swear to uphold gives us freedom of religion. Atheism is anti-religion, therefore it is tyranny.

By Stephen C

April 17, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this

Anything can be taken to a fundamentalist extreme, including atheism.

Now, is it dangerous? Well, if you realize that between Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, somewhere around 30 million people were killed due to their fundamentalist atheist Communist governments, then yes, I would say that fundamentalist atheism can be dangerous.

By Copyleft

April 17, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

Jim: By that same argument, fervent believers of ANY religion are supporting tyranny, because they disagree with all the others.

By Kenny

April 17, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

That’s ridiculous. Religion has murdered more people in the name of God than any atheist regimes have.

Religion is a fantasy that people cling to in order to deal with emotionally troubling events in life.

The world would be much better off if we could somehow make all religion disappear. As an example, the Islamic threat would evaporate.

By Willie

April 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Since I am a Judean-Christian believer, I am sure I would be in violation of the constitution of by most you if I post my religious opinion in a public domain. Separation of Church and State. So I guess you will have to have just one opinion and that is from the non believers. I hope thats fair to you.

By Mark

April 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

I believe an ignorant belief in an entity that doesn’t exist is the real threat here. Christians need to start believing in themselves for a change. They are ignorant lemmings that all have the same crutch.

By Willie

April 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Since I am a Judean-Christian believer, I am sure I would be in violation of the constitution by most you if I post my religious opinion in a public domain. Separation of Church and State. So I guess you will have to have just one opinion and that is from the non believers. I hope thats fair to you.

By Willie

April 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Since I am a Judean-Christian believer, I am sure I would be in violation of the constitution by most you if I post my religious opinion in a public domain. Separation of Church and State. So I guess you will have to have just one opinion and that is from the non believers. I hope thats fair to you.

By James

April 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Atheism is man’s attempt to ignore God - that’s very dangerous. Agnosticism is man’s attempt to denigrate God. Idolatry is man’s attempt to control God. Religion is man’s attempt to reach out to God. Christianity is God’s attempt to reach out to man. My choice is easy.

By Pat

April 17, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

Some commenters have missed the point. The segment of true believers and atheists Hedges believes could pose a threat to democratic institutions and peace are at the edges of both groups - the militants. What militant atheists and religious fundamentalists share is a sneering contempt for anyone who doesn’t share their views. (read forums on both atheist and right-wing Christian web sites if you think this uber-sense of superiority doesn’t exist.)The “thoughts” aren’t threats until they spill over into actions and policy.

By Mad Mary

April 17, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

I do not believe in invisible beings, gods, fairies or spirits of any kind, nature, faith, religion or cult. All the same to me. The history or religion is the history of our world.
People have used cult mentality since the beginning of time to explain the sun, wind, rain and stars. People have created nations based on their particular cult beliefs. People have gone to war, kept the peace, left their homeland, invaded others and done everything under our sun because of their beliefs in some “higher power” or “calling”. Do not compare an atheist with communists. It was not a lack of belief in an invisible being that communist dictators used to control their country men and women. It was their personal obsession with power and control. They did not want their people to hold any god before them. They wanted their people to limit their beliefs only to themselves. They just did not want the competition. I believe in human nature and all its failings. I believe everybody may believe in anything they want to believe in as long as it does not hurt anyone else. I believe that no one should force me or condemn me for my personal beliefs and therefore I do not force or condemn anyone else for theirs. I believe that was goes around comes around.

By blog police

April 17, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Thank you Mad Mary for posting all in bold type…it’s obvious that your opinion is the most important one here and that those of us reading are too stupid to comprehend your excellent prose without it being in bold..

Again, thank you..thank you so much.

By Fred Mertz

April 17, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

No praying in school. No praying at football games. Take down that 10 commandment statue. No, you have to give taxes for public schools even though your child goes to a private religious school. I don’t care if it’s still a theory, you have to teach evolution as fact. No, it’s not immoral to kill unborn children, all civilized societies do that. I don’t care if you don’t want your 5 year old taught about homosexuality, YOU’RE intolerant. I don’t care if you don’t want your 9 year old to know how to use a condom, it’s a health issue and we know best. It’s art you ignorant Puritan, I don’t care if you don’t want your college aged child to be forced to see a play about genitalia. You religious kooks need to go to our re-education camps for your own good.

He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! “Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.”

By zeke

April 17, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

No! The most dangerous is the religion of LIBERAL SOCIALISM as practiced by the democrats, the aclu, college professors, naacp and other un American subversive groups!!! The next is the radical eviromental religion groups like the sierra club, world wildlife fund, trust for public land and others including their spin off elf!

By Dave

April 17, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

I will elaborate on this if anyone feels a need for me to explain in further detail… ALL religions share one basic “need” for mankind: Their “FEAR OF DEATH” and the thought that if they believe what they are told to be true…that they can and will live forever. It is why even educated people that should know better believe in a so called “god” yet don’t believe in other myths and fables. What they can’t comprehend is that one day it just “ends”… that there is “nothing”…just like it was before they were born. They can’t even picture the very concept of it just being done/blank/nothing. yet if they could understand that how it was before they were born…that “nothingness”..well it’s peacful, there is no pain. It’s just blank.

The world truly would be better if mankind could accept this fact. Then people could try to make THIS world (the ONLY WORLD…the REAL WORLD) a better place…instead of trying to get to the make believe one.

We ALL die. Everyone, everything that lives has an end. It’s normal, natural, and good.

By HARRY

April 17, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Mad Mary,

I so glad to hear that you don’t condemn anyone else for their beliefs. Unfortunately, the rest of your paragraph contradicts that statement. You are an anti-religious bigot and ingenuous in your platitudes. In “what goes around comes around” you really mean “those religious idiots will get what I know they deserve”, NOT “live and let live”. Intolerant hypocrite.

By Charlie

April 17, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

Atheists a threat????!

You’re kidding, right?

I guess if you’re peddaling your type of fundamentalism, any contrary or reasonable or rational thought would be perceived as a threat. Common sense is a threat to fundamentalists.

By Brian Westley

April 17, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

Let’s see, people who obviously don’t know the difference between government promotion of religion vs. individual practice of religion (no, it isn’t unconstitutional to post your religious opinions on a public forum, or to pray in school; what’s unconstitutional is when some government official tries to dictate what religion his town believes, or tells school students where, when, and how to pray).

Also, let’s compare and contrast:

christian militant: kills abortion doctors muslim militant: suicide bomber atheist militant: writes books

Yes, certainly all three of the above deserve to be described as ‘militant’

By Bob

April 17, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

Atheism is clearly the bloodiest religion yet. It has spawned tyrannies and bloodshed never before thought possible. Aside from the bloodshed, it has ripped apart families and societies and plunged cultures into a slow and painful death by drowning in the cesspool of moral degradation.

So, yes, atheism is dangerous. As one of last century’s greatest philosopher’s, Richard Weaver, declared, “Ideas have consequences.”

By Michelle

April 17, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

Acceptance, respect, maturity, tolerance, love. It does not take religion to have these. Live this life as you think you should. Let others do the same. It will all be sorted out in the end. I am a believer in God. I have seen miracles and blessings in my life that I know were by God. I have beliefs that I strongly believe in. Do I respect others for believing differntly??? Yes. Will I bash them for it??? No.
Live your life to the best of your ability, in the way you believe. Accept others for doing the same.

By Winslo

April 17, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

James: You are right on !!

By James

April 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Atheism is man’s attempt to ignore God - that’s very dangerous. Agnosticism is man’s attempt to denigrate God. Idolatry is man’s attempt to control God. Religion is man’s attempt to reach out to God. Christianity is God’s attempt to reach out to man. My choice is easy.

By HARRY

April 17, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

Brian Westley-

Which Peaceful, book writing, atheist militants are you talking about? Ted Kaczynski? Fidel Castro? Bill Ayers? Joseph Stalin? Pol Pot? Mao? Pot, meet kettle. Dolt.

By Patrick

April 17, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

I am an atheist and I don’t care what you believe. Heck, my daughters go to church with their grandmother and/or mother every so often. I don’t try and push my beliefs on others and I don’t appreciate others trying to push their beliefs on me.

Some Christians try to sneak their beliefs into our government where they don’t belong. I will fight every bit of that until my last breath.

You want to practice your religion, fine. Just don’t tell me how to live my life.

By Jen

April 17, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

I’m an atheist. I really don’t like it when people push their faith on my but I don’t have a problem with someone adhering to their own faith.

I realize that the very tenetof evangelicalism is to go out and convert - thus pressing your faith on others. It’s this sort of tenet that causes the problems because religious leaders and some followers extend that mission into law so that everyone must follow. It can be terribly oppressive. Naturally, this sort of evangelical will tell you that disallowing them from persuing their religious tenet is oppressive.

This is why we need laws to prevent public administration of religion. And this is why we need laws that protect private practice of religion.

Case in point: Gay Marriage. No law should ever compel a religion to allow gay marriages. However, no law should ever prevent the civil union between two consenting adults.

Abortion - No law should ever compel an underaged unwed mother to have an abortion. No law should disallow the same person to seek one. However, this person’s faith and place of faith is free to dictate to this individual what she should do.

I think there is little risk of this militant style of atheist. Only about 10% of people in the US identify themselves as atheists. The militant kind would be a much smaller percentage.

In contrast, only about another 10% identify themselves as evangelical.

In the past few years, which group have we felt the most influence from in our laws?

But, be rest asured…a whopping 70% of our country identify themselves and non-evangelical Christians.

You’re in little danger from us atheists…

By Brian Westley

April 17, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

Harry, I’m talking about the so-called ‘militant’ atheists like Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and Sam Harris. Dolt.

All of them have been called ‘militant atheists’ for writing books, yet christians who write books aren’t called ‘militant christians,’ nor are muslims who write books called ‘militant muslims.’ Yet atheists who write books ARE called ‘militant.’

By Ray Ingles

April 17, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Harry: you missed Brian’s point. There have been ‘militant’ atheists in that sense, sure. But Hitchens, Dawkins, Dennett, and so forth aren’t ‘militant’. They are writing books and advocating their positions, they aren’t shooting people. And yet, they are called militant. Odd double-standard there.

There are two different dimensions here. People can be religious or not, and they can be dogmatic or not. Not all religious people are muderous fanatics… and neither are all atheists.

By get over it

April 17, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

Religion was invented to keep the poor from killing the rich. In extreme form is uses mind control, oppression, and manipulation to control others. In weaker forms it allows people to blindly follwing something that is illogical and render them unable to think for themselves.

By HARRY

April 17, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Ray Ingles-

I did not miss Brian’s point. He named no individuals. His point was simple - Religious people bad, atheists good. Read what he said, not what you think he means. The larger point is that society tends to think that atheists are not religious fundamentalists but the truth of the matter is that their belief system is their religion and they often times adhere to it’s fundamentals as doggedly as Christian, Muslim or Hindu fundamentalists.

By gttim

April 17, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Writes Evans, “The atheists Hedges has in mind are militant and even somewhat evangelistic…”

Funny he uses a religious term to try and denigrate atheism! I can’t remember how many times atheists have come knocking on my door on the weekend trying to convert me or to attend their house of no-worship. Oh wait, that has never happened. It was the religious people who did that!

Just please keep religion out of the schools and government. If you do not have the brain power or care enough to teach your religion properly to your kids, take them to church. Do not expect the state to instruct your kids in religion for you. I am tired of all the religious fundamentalists wanting a nanny state to teach their kids religion because they don’t seem to be able to do it on their own.

By ron

April 17, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

Atheist fanacics?Never saw one.Religious fanatics?There seem to be lots of those around.I’m way less afraid of fundamental atheists than I am of religious fundamentalists.

By Dave

April 17, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Great post Jen! ;-)

By HARRY

April 17, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Brian and Ray-

Go google the words Christian and Militant. Have a nice read. You two are atheist hypocrites. Atheists refer to Christians constantly as militant. Of course, they usually just imply that Christians are stupid, inbred and unenlightened. I guess atheists can dish it out but can’t take it.

By Brian Westley

April 17, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Harry, learn to read, dolt. Nowhere did I say anything like “Religious people bad, atheists good” as you claim. I was observing what standards there are in calling atheists ‘militant’ vs. the much harsher standards of calling a christian or a muslim ‘militant.’

By Jen

April 17, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove with this statement: *Go google the words Christian and Militant. *

It seems to contradict the rest of your post…

By Dave

April 17, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Harry…you see we “athiests” don’t have problem with christians in general…we have a problem with ALL organized religion…

Funny…seeing the pope on TV today… What’s with the costumes? Just THAT ALONE is goofy! Why do some need to dress up like they belong to some type of “cult” when they go out in public? WHY? Because it IS a cult!

Funny how any “new” religion that pops up on the radar is always labled as a “cult”…as all of you that belong to some type of cult (a religion) think that any NEW religion is a cult. Why do you think that YOUR religion is the ONLY one that is true? What if you were born to muslim parents? Or Jewish parents? Or born in India and your parents were Hindu’s?

Just because you were “born” into a religion makes “that” the religion that is “correct” in ALL it’s beliefs? ALL RELGIONS SHARE the same common principles….that when you die…there’s a “better place” that you will go to….

It’s silly…but most of all..it’s SAD! ALL things living die…plant and animal…and one day this earth we spin upon will die… that’s OK…it’s normal…natural…and part of nature…

Let me ask: to ALL belivers…. How old do you think this planet we spin upon is? Do you TRULY BELIEVE that this planet is 6,000-10,000 years old? That Fred Fintstone and Dino lived at the same time (meaning man and dinasaur)?

Death is normal, it’s natural, it’s good! When you’re gone…it’s painless… it just ends…same as for the Butterfly, a Rose Bush….or…MAN!

By candide

April 17, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

Atheism is simply a firm assertion that there is no convincing evidence of a god, any kind of god. It seems to me that this is true. Atheists are usually intelligent, rational people unwilling to pretend to believe. Most believers only pretend anyway, pretend they believe.

By cranky old man

April 17, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

I consider myself an apathist (I don’t care if there’s a god), but I probably lean more toward the atheist camp. Mostly, I just want to be left alone. I don’t care if someone wants to put a nativity scene outside city hall, or if a judge wants to hang a copy of the ten commandments on the wall of his office. I do care if the yahoos want to keep me from buying liquor on Sundays, forcing me to drive 25 minutes to Ft. Gordon instead of 5 minutes to the liquor store down the street.

Would the world be better off if religion was never invented? Hard to say. Human nature without social constraints is not pretty. Most religions have rules that their members are supposed to follow that forbid some of our more savage, brutal, and selfish tendencies. So religion has probably prevented many crimes and atrocities over the centuries. Unfortunately, it has also brought us crusades, jihads, and inquisitions, and been subject to selective interpretation that justified things like slavery and mysogeny.

Someone has already mentioned the millions killed by Mao, Stalin, and Pol Pot in the name of communism. While it’s true that communist ideology has atheism as one of its tenets, it was only a tertiary excuse at best for sending people to the gulags and re-education camps. Communist dictators were first and foremost interested in maintaining power, and ideology was merely a public facade to be maintained or discarded depending on what was convenient for each situation.

By Jay Kay

April 17, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

Why are Christians so afraid of atheists? Just because we don’t believe the same things you believe doesn’t make us a threat or militant. My ex-wife is a Christian and is one of the most dispicable, immoral people you would ever meet. Guess which one of us committed adultery? It wasn’t the atheist!

This is a great website for anyone wanting to learn the truth:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

By gwardan

April 17, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

Religion was invented to contorl the masses no just protect the rich but also to protect the weak. Without beliefs in something more than ourselves then we do not have order or law and then you do not have society as we know it. People obey laws not only out of fear of being caged or killed but out of morals. But Religion is corruptable because of the power it holds. Even when leaders have tried to push a non religious idea they meerly replace God with the people or themselves. Athism becomes a threat when it takes over a government politically other wise its just people that disagree with you.

By Reginald Selkirk

April 17, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

So these atheists are “fundamentalists”? Go ahead, look up the word, I’ll wait here. Now, to what text are they fundamentally clinging? So these atheists are “militant”? Exactly how many churches have they firebombed? Most of the attacks on atheists rely on abusing the language, to damn atheists with words they have not earned. It is interesting to see that many of the negative terms applied to atheists are religious in nature. Is “fundamentalism” a bad thing? Please state so clearly. Is “evangelism” a bad thing? Please state so clearly. The world will be a better place when religion does not serve as protective cover for bad ideas and bad practices.

By HARRY

April 17, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

Wow. The atheists really have their undies in a bunch, don’t they. Awwwww, did someone get their feelings hurt. I guess it’s not fun when your usual punching bags swing back… And Reginald, -Fundamentalist - “a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles” The assertion that there is no God is a basic principle that all atheists adhere to. Believing that anyone with a differing opinion appears to be another one.

By HARRY

April 17, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

Wow. The atheists really have their undies in a bunch, don’t they. Awwwww, did someone get their feelings hurt. I guess it’s not fun when your usual punching bags swing back… And Reginald, -Fundamentalist - “a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles” The assertion that there is no God is a basic principle that all atheists adhere to. Believing that anyone with a differing opinion is an idiot appears to be another one.

By therealist

April 17, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

The 1 million+ American babies aborted each year would certainly agree if given half a chance..

By Copyleft

April 17, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Harry: Theists can, and do, make relevant and meaningful arguments. Would you care to provide some?

By ProofsinthePudding

April 17, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Chris has confused atheists with progressives.

It’s the progressives that have proven themselves the intolerant bigots who enjoy personally attacking people that think differently. And as the Olympic torch run has shown, violence is an acceptable method for them getting their way..

By Matt

April 17, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

I’m an atheist. I don’t do drugs, have no illegitimate children, have never murdered anyone. I own a house and sleep in on Sundays.

Do I disappoint?

I do get ticked when people lie and say that prayer isn’t allowed in schools (it is), the 10 commandments aren’t allowed (they shouldn’t be, aren’t even constitutional) and other such drivel. The book of Matthew says that you shouldn’t be like the hypocrites and pray in public. Why don’t you follow what your own book says?

By Jen

April 17, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

No, Condescending Harry, our feeling are not hurt. However, it’s simply absurd to discuss the alleged danger of atheism to non-atheists.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fundamentalist

As you will see by the definition, everyone is a fundamentalist because everyone has a core set of beliefs they believe in. However, as we all know, your disingenuous assertions included, the common use of the word refers to Protestant movement to interpret the Bible literally.

By HARRY

April 17, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Copyleft: Ummmmm. no.

By WW5

April 17, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

I don’t believe in atheism

By HARRY

April 17, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Copyleft: Oh, wait. On second thought, Yes. Pull my finger.

By Dave

April 17, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

HARRY…it’s not WE that are upset…it’s YOU! let it go. Tell me…what happens when one dies….how old is this earth we spin upon…the MORE that science knocks holes in the bible…the MORE you “faithful” get p** off. See…we’re NOT p** off. We ONLY get p** at the lies that people go and “preach” as the truth…to “convert” others…

but trust me…we are NOT the angry ones….the ANGRY ones…are you: the “talibangelicals”….those that WANT and feel a NEED to have a CHURCH/STATE…as this is not…nor was it EVER…a “christian” nation…out of the 10 commandments….only TWO are “laws” in the USA. This country was first inhabited by those that “wanted to get away” from religious values being put upon them…by NOT accepting the King’s Church… it’s VERY CRYSTAL CLEAR in our Constitution…that there is NOWHERE in it…that says that this is a nation founded upon Christian laws or principles….

if it IS in there…SHOW me!!!! As the VERY word of “god” can mean so many things…

Allah is GOD to muslims… is HE the GOD mentioned? Does the constitution mention Jesus? or WHICH god one may believe in? Does it provide for governement sponsered religion? Does it mention that religion should NOT be taxed?

it’s REALLY time to TAX ALL churches, temples, etc. As they are “sevices” provided for the weak. They are business….they MAKE money. They ARE and should be taxed. Most of all…they should FUND this illegal war against ANOTHER religion that you don’t agree with…as part of the very “root” of this war is based in YOUR religious principles…

the “principle” of HATE….the HATRID of all not like you…

Either way…for your votes…as i can only GUESS who you voted for in the last major elections…you were LIED to (just like religion is a lie)…because…get this: GAYS ARE STILL GAY!!! ABORTIONS ARE STILL LEGAL!!!

Pastors STILL RAPE little boys and girls…. all in the NAME of a comic book character named….god

(no spell checking or grammer checks…no time…you’ll get my point)…. -dave

By Truthman

April 17, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

Just remember, The Southern Baptist Convention tells women to “gracefully submit” to their husband’s will, and not to appear smart about such subjects as finances since it may make the man feel like he’s not the head of the house.

I asked several women, many S. Baptists, if they “gracefully submit” to their husband’s will at home?

The overwhelming answer: “HELL NO!!!”

By Truthman

April 17, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

ProofsinthePUD,

You are just a ridiculous nutcase! Please go back to your rubber Romper room. It’s simplistic stupidity such as yours that makes me believe you think Bush is the smartest president ever in our history!!

Please limit your comments to “American Idol” and country music, which you probably know gobs about!!!

By Skeptic Tank

April 17, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Pardon me, but my faith or lack thereof is none of your concern. I live in the United States of America. I am free to believe what I want, as long as I do not infringe on your right to do the same. The mere fact that you feel it necessary to loudly publicize your own deeply personal beliefs, be they Christianity or Islam or Judaism, does not in any way justify or confirm them. For those who are taught to judge not, lest ye be judged, you happen to be the most judgmental group in the region.

By HARRY

April 17, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Gee Dave, I got your point but I’m not angry. I laugh every time I hit the post button. Lighten up, take a breath. I don’t know how old earth is and I think the pope has a really funny costume. I don’t agree with your skew on history but then again, I don’t have to now, do I?

By Nan

April 17, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

The question’s a joke, right? Atheism is nonbelief — how can anyone be “fundamentalist” about nothing?

By Dave

April 17, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Know what I LOVE about the bible? The ten commandments!! The ones about “thou shalt not kill”,,and references to rape…

As “HERE” are ALL the references in the bible where it says that “murder” and “rape” are OK…things like raping ones OWN virgin daughter….stoning your own children when they act up….yet these days…those that “believe” say that they “go about” these “rules and laws” stated in the bible in a different way…that THESE LAWS stated in the bible mean something “differnet”…hell…when it says “rape your virgin daughter” when she makes “eyes” at another man…it’s pretty much written in “black and white”…

QUOTED FROM “YOUR” BIBLE.. “The ABC’s of the Bible” (fellow athiests…here is your ammunition): http://ffrf.org/timely/abcsbible.php

oh….believers!!!! PLEASE tell me why it says it’s OK to own slaves i nthe bible….because it’s there! It says it’s OK to do so….so…i guess you MUST believe that people SHOULD own slaves….

explain that please! thanks! -dave

By Jay Kay

April 17, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

You are exactly right, Dave. People disregard all the violence, rape, and slavery in the bible. This is a book of love? Really? If this is the “word of God”, he is an angry, violent being who believes women and minorities are on the same level as animals. BUT HE LOVES YOU!

By Carbon Footprint

April 17, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Atheist? Then what’s an Amenist? One who dont believe in men?

If God was a Amenist would we give the garden of eden back? Maybe God didn’t caste Adam and Eve out of the garden of eden, maybe Adam and Eve trapped God IN the garden of eden, (and then ran away laughing), where he’s been trapped ever since, and where he’s planning his escape.

To finish God, all we have to do is rezone the garden of eden as commercial water park and flood him like he done flooded us. If Darwin is correct, God will evolve gills and become amphibian…or drown.

By Skeptic Tank

April 17, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Dave, no need to ridicule Christians, particularly the homegrown Protestant variety. This is America and they can believe whatever they want. It’s when they attempt to control YOU and your beliefs that a transgression has taken place. We all do stupid stuff. Maybe you dress funny, Dave. Maybe you drive a weird car. Maybe you decided to paint your laundry room purple. We’re all slightly eccentric. No problem, as long as you don’t announce that it’s your divine right to make ME paint my laundry room purple. Not in the United States of America, that is.

By HARRY

April 17, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Dave,

I would answer your last post point by point but I have to go circumcise my son with a sharp stone after which we will be wallowing in human blood on the highway. That is one strange website. I like the one about “Buying a wife with 200 male foreskins” Do you think that was before or after the circumcision? I hope you don’t think I’m making fun of you. That would just be so upsetting.

By Truthman

April 17, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Excellent reference! It reads just like Dick Cheney’s playbook for world domination!!

By f(x) = 36x^2

April 17, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

It is logically inconsistent to hold up Stalin or Mao or any of the “usual suspects” quoted by the Religious Right as examples of “athesitic fundamentalism”. None of those dictators or governments did what they did in the name of and to promote the cause of atheism. Their atheism - if indeed they were personally atheists or simply used religion as a tool - was no more the driving force behind their grabs for power than was their hair color.

On the other hand, when a fundamentalist Christian blows up an abortion clinic, or a fundamentalist Muslim sets off a car bomb, or a fundamentalist Hindu mob tears down a mosque and murders its inhabitants, they are doing so first and foremost in the name of religion. Until some “militant atheist” commits an act of violence in order to advance the “cause” of atheism, there is no logical comparison between the two.

By HARRY

April 17, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Ok. The inmates have taken over the asylum. Time to back slowly out the door.

By Winston Smith

April 17, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

f(x) = 36x^2

I see your point and agree. God bless you.

By Dave

April 17, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Harry…these things are in YOUR bible..let me know which you DO NOT agree with:

Boiling and eating your son II Kings 6:29

Buying your rape victim for your wife Deut. 22:29

Having repeated sexual intercourse in public view with your neighbor’s wives and your fathers’ wives II Sam. 12:11 II Sam. 16:22

Having sexual relations with your wife and her mother Lev. 20:14

Refusing to heal a child because of its race Matt. 15:26

Selling a whole family to pay a debt Matt. 18:23-25

Sexually abusing women to death Judges 19:25

Stoning a youth for blasphemy Lev. 24:23

Spreading excrement on human faces; spitting in your child’s face; washing your feet in blood Malachi 2:3 Num. 12:14 Psalms 58:10

So…I ask again…do you follow the bible? Do you do the things “asked” of you to make you a “good christian”…?

These are NOT made up words…they are ALL things that you must follow if you think the bible is true. It’s to easy to “pick and choose” what you want to believe…as we’ve become very different as humans these days…

Said you just don’t see it… it’s there…it’s in black and white…it asks you to “obey” these things it “asks” of you…

Why do you not “obey” thses things I posted above…from YOUR bible?

tell me…i really want to know!

By Dave

April 17, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Oh oh oh!!! I need to add a few more great things from the bible!!!

here they IS!!!!: Taking women and children as spoils of war and dividing up the virgins and babies Num. 31:18-40 Deut. 20:14 II Chron. 28:8

Tearing off women’s breasts Ezekiel 23:24

Ten virgins awaiting one bridegroom Matt. 25:1-3

Throwing a woman from a window to be run over by horses and eaten by dogs II Kings 9:32-37

Throwing babies into a river Ex. 1:22

All written in the bible folks! I LOVE how it gives the very places we can find these things!!!!

GO ahead and say what you want about athiests….or even muslims….this stuff…is SICK!!!!

(makes the pedophile pastors look like saints if you ask me)!

By Truthman

April 17, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

BTW, was that a Catholic Mass or a North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) convention in D.C. today?

By dbm

April 17, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Willie, please post your religious views. It will not violate separation of church and state. It would only be a violation if the state was being used to force your views on people.

Fred Mertz, a lot of what you complain about would be fixed if we had separation of state and education and separation of state and art.

Bob, what about the inquisition, the crusades, and the Thirty Years War?

By Jo

April 17, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

How many atheists have you heard of flying planes into the World Trade Center & the Pentagon???? Hmmm. Didn’t think so

By reeves

April 17, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

With all of the scientific evidence and knowledge available today, you have to be an idiot to believe in some goat herders myth.

Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.

Stupid religious fools.

By John Burningham

April 17, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Any group, religious nor not, that trys to push their beliefs on others is DANGERIOUS. While we have the freedom to believe as we choose, that does not give anyone the right to try and dictate to others.

I am an apathetic agnostic.

Apathetic agnosticism (also called Pragmatic agnosticism)—the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of God or gods, but since any God or gods that may exist appear unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic anyway.

By CharlieFoxtrot

April 17, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

All Hail Cthulhu!

By DavidEm

April 17, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

“Atheist fundamentalist” is an oxymoron. Fundamentalism requires a text—-the Bible, the Koran, Papal Encyclicals—-regarded as inerrant, no matter how much evidence points to the contrary. Oh, and prayer has not been outlawed in schools. Anyone can pray anywhere at any time. Big Brother is when you have the state (or the school, for that matter) choosing your children’s prayers.

By Dana

April 17, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

“No praying in school. No praying at football games.”

Nobody ever said “no praying” at school or football games, just that such prayers can’t be publically led with the authority of the school behind them.

“No, you have to give taxes for public schools even though your child goes to a private religious school.”

Everybody has to pay taxes for public schools, not just those with children currently attending them. That’s because it benefits everybody to have a good public school system.

“I don’t care if it’s still a theory, you have to teach evolution as fact.”

Yes, in science classes, public schools have to teach what all mainstream scientists believe, not what you believe based on what’s written in a translation of a two-thousand-year-old book. I’m sorry.

“No, it’s not immoral to kill unborn children, all civilized societies do that.”

Nobody ever said you can’t believe it’s immoral to have an abortion, just that it can’t be made illegal.

“I don’t care if you don’t want your 5 year old taught about homosexuality, YOU’RE intolerant.”

If you have a problem with your child being taught that everybody isn’t exactly like them, but that we’re still all human beings who deserve to be treated with dignity, then yes, you’re intolerant. You can teach your child yourself that you believe homosexuality is immoral.

“It’s art you ignorant Puritan, I don’t care if you don’t want your college aged child to be forced to see a play about genitalia.”

I don’t remember being forced to see any play when I was in college.

By Lily Toad

April 17, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

We cannot know if there is a god, not in this lifetime. to be sung as a Gregorian chant.

By comp133xi7y

April 17, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Dana, you forgot something…

“It’s art you ignorant Puritan, I don’t care if you don’t want your college aged child to be forced to see a play about genitalia.”

If your child is college-aged, then he or she is your child, but he or she is no longer a child. College-aged “children” are adults, and as such, what plays they watch or don’t watch are legally no longer your concern.

And I’m assuming you’re talking about “The Vagina Monologues”…

I’m also going to assume that, like most religious fundamenalist types who have never read the books they condemn, or seen the movies and plays they rant about, that you’ve neither seen nor read it. So, yes - that would make you ignorant. I don’t know about Puritan - that’s a pretty specific religious group, and somehow I doubt you would measure up.

By bob

April 17, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

I feel sorry for all of you but to be nice I’ll say good luck with that.

By Michele

April 17, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Wait a minute…first the theists called us atheists immoral and completely lacking any belief system. Now they’re saying we’re dogmatic and fundamentalist.

Pick one already and keep your fearmongering straight!

By Tony

April 17, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Wait, bald isn’t a hair color?

By Alex

April 17, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

A healthy religious faith REQUIRES a degree of agnosticism? Why? Because religious faith is just that - FAITH. The nature of faith is that it describes something that cannot be proven - unlike knowledge. No one KNOWS that God exist, because it is impossible to prove God’s existence. If belief in God were based on knowledge, it could be proven rationally/scientifically and then it wouldn’t be long before so-called “false” religions and atheism went the way of the dinosaurs.

God’s existence cannot be proven and thus faith in God implies some measure of doubt. I KNOW 2 + 2 = 4. There are no doubts about it. But I don’t know whether God exists. Therefore, I have faith that God exists. I acknowledge that I could be wrong.

For this reason, I describe myself as a “Christian agnostic.” I don’t have proof that God exists, or that Jesus died and was resurrected to save humankind. But I choose to have faith in the tenets of Christianity because it’s too wonderful of a story NOT to believe it (and because of various religious experiences/feelings, to a certain degree it’s not a choice).

I therefore have a higher degree of distrust in Christian/Religious fundamentalists than atheist fundamentalists. Anyone who claims to be absolutely certain of the existence of God and the truth of the Bible is living blindly on the basis of dogma rather than living humbly out of a genuine and dynamic faith.

The difference between a “religious agnostic” and an atheist is that the atheist has not had a genuine “religious experience.” But who can blame atheists for not opening themselves to religious experiences, since the history of religious institutions is so hate-filled and hurtful?

By Dave

April 17, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Let’s see…one day Mommy and Daddy told me about Santa Clause…then they told me he was not real. Another time they told me about the Easter Bunny….then one day they told me he TOO was not real. They told me the monster under my bed was not real. That the Keebler Elves were not real. That Shrek was not real… and that those cartoons I like to watch…well those TOO were not real. They told me that ALL of those things were “make believe”…

Sad they never told me that god too was not real. That the bible TRULY was…”The Greatest STORY Ever Told”…

But Mommy and Daddy….PLEASE tell me that Santa is real!!! I saw him at the Mall of GA! At Lenox AND at Norht Point as well!!!!! He just HAS to be real!!!!

By Alex

April 17, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

whoops, that first sentence in my post at 4:17 is supposed to be a statement, not a question:

“A healthy religious faith REQUIRES a certain degree of agnosticism.”

By ProofsinthePudding

April 17, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

Thanks for making my point Progressiveman.., I mean Truthman.

And it is OK if you hate me because I’m different just please, please, don’t forget to take your zanax before you go to bed. Wouldn’t want you going all spaztic on us.., again.

By Carbon Footprint

April 17, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Atheists and Amenists. Men and Gods. Neither believing in the other.

It’s like a gun lobbyist who counters the argument against handguns by saying, “Oh yeah? Show me the bodies. If handguns are so dangerous, then where are all the bodies?”

Oh, dont reach for that one, trolls, just steal it and then go clean your handguns, brainiacs.

By Chuck

April 17, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Currently dangerous, no, but the fanatical,yes. A new movie called “Expelled” is being released this weekend. It documents how universities and scientific journals censor criticism of evolutionary theory - the foundation for atheism. Ask the people who have lost their jobs and careers because of their freedom of speech whether atheist fundamentalism does harm.

btw, I’d like an atheist in this blog to explain why the fossil record does not support evolution. Darwin was frustrated that archeology back then had not discovered any intermediate life forms (proof of species evolving to other species) that should be fossilized. We’re almost 150 years later and still there are not millions, there is not even one.

By Mangler

April 17, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

Most reader’s of the Bible skip over the passage that says to keep their own beliefs in the closet (meaning in private) and not out in the open.

By Dave

April 17, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Chuck… how old do you think this planet we spin upon is? 6,000-10,000 years old? Do you believe that some guy named Naoh built a boat large enough to hold every single living animal on this planet X 2? Silly question…what happens if one of the male animals couldn’t get it up…and if Noah had no Viagra for him? Did that species go extinct?

By Getreal

April 17, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

First of all, Atheism is a religious view. The existence of a God cannot be quantified nor can the absence of a God. Why should our society have to bow to the Atheists view? There is no more proof they are right than that the Muslims or Baptists are right.

Second, for you less than intelligent people out there who don’t believe in things you can’t see (Mad Mary), I take it you don’t believe in gravity, air, magnetic fields, space, electricity, etc.

Third, for you psuedo Bible scholars out there who want to bring up bad things in the old testament; We are called Christians because our foundation is based on Christ and his teachings. Christ wasn’t born until 500 years after the last entry in the old testament.

Reading this blog makes me worry about the future of humankind. Please tell me you people aren’t having children.

By Alex

April 17, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

or the verse where Jesus quite simply tells the rich ruler to “go, sell all that you have and give the money to the poor.” I feel like that one gets glazed over a little bit.

as well as “the poor you will always have with you” - meaning that Jesus knew his disciples would always be living amongst the poor, outcast and downtrodden of society after he died and was resurrected - much like they did when Jesus was alive.

By comp133xi7y

April 17, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-fossil-fallacy

By Dave

April 17, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Oh Chuck… Can you PLEASE explain those passages I posted above today? Those exact quotes from the bible. Can you explain WHY you and those like you don’t “obey” those “rules” and “laws” written in the bible. Funny…I’ve posted those for a few years on different sites and not one single “believer” has ever taken it upon themselves to explain WHY it is that modern day “believers” don’t “believe” or follow those very rules/laws. Funny (well not really) how you get to pick and choose certain parts of the bible, and others are not placed into action. Kinda like saying our laws are based off of the 10 commandments…when in truth..only 2 of them are laws…though shalt not kill, and thou shalt not steal. But the “kill” part…well those passages I quoted from the bible above say that it IS OK to kill..to kill your own son/daughter/wife/father/mother etc.

By DiscipleOfChrist

April 17, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

Christians and friends,

You “cast your pearls before swine” (that’s especially for you Dave) when you waste time arguing with those who try to defend a position that does not really exist. Come on, is there really such a thing as an “atheist”, one who can say there is no God or does not believe there is a God? Based on what evidence can this position be taken? God has revealed Himself in His creation and His Word, the Holy Scriptures. Anyone who denies God, denies the truth. Only a fool would say in his heart “there is no God”. And our bible tells us not to argue with fools. Don’t waste your time with those who refuse to hear but save your “pearls” for those who are lost and will hear you. Use discernment to know when some one has condemned themselves by their own words and actions. And remember what Paul told Timothy in 2 Timothy 3:1-9 1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate F6 concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. As we used say when we were kids, “now run and go tell that”.

Sola Scriptura,

DOC

By Alex

April 17, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

DiscipleOfChrist,

I have a feeling you’re about to get a rhetorical @$$-whooping….

By JayBird

April 17, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Getreal, are you telling me that Christians don’t believe in the old testament? So if that is the case, doesn’t that mean that the creation of earth, as you guys see it, isn’t true? Isn’t the 10 commandments in the old testament? So that is b.s. too, huh? There is plenty of violence and hatred in the new testament, you morons just pick and choose what you want to follow.

By JayBird

April 17, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

Getreal, how do you explain this? Part of your beloved new testament. So Jesus is okay with slavery?

Titus, chapter 2 verse 9:

Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory, nor to pilfer, but to show entire and true fidelity.