Opinion Talk

By In Tune 2 Nature

March 26, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this

Thank you ! This is yet another attemp by So Called Christians to control others. I’m all for electric cars, recycling and cfb’s. The more green we are the better, but that has more to do with Mother Nature than God.

By In Tune 2 Nature

March 26, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

Thank you ! This is yet another attemp by So Called Christians to control others. I’m all for electric cars, recycling and cfb’s. The more green we are the better, but that has more to do with Mother Nature than God.

By Van

March 26, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

Being a human equals being bad for the environment. No way around it. Therefore, add being human to the sin pile.

Will the Southern Baptists also tell their congregation not to buy a house in an urban sprawl subdivision? Better lay off that Wal-Mart and all that cheap plastic as well. Is your current home energy efficient? You get the idea.

By TW

March 26, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

They get 47mpg, have great head room, and cost $25k. Maybe people buy them for that stuff, without getting into the other debate. Besides, the rightwing has turned the Bible into a bludgeoning instrument and wouldn’t know real Christianity if it bit their backside…morons.

Guess we better hope God didn’t create Iraqi civilians…

By jason

March 26, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Prius’ to me are ugly looking. I have sat in 1; pretty neat dash and all but I have a 97 Corolla that gets 30 -35 mpg. It’s paid for, runs great and only has 70,000 miles on it. I can buy ALOT of gas for 25-30K dollars. As far as that church asking their members to be looking to more fuel efficient cars; that’s ok and a good community minded effort as long as they don’t get stupid and start telling their sheep that they will go to HELL if they do not buy a Prius!

By JH

March 26, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

I believe, as a Christian, it is my job to be as good a steward as I can to this home we inherited from God. I think that should go for Muslims, Jews, etc too; anyone who believes God created us and the heavens and EARTH (whether you believe this literally or not, shouldn’t matter). Now, I also believe that progress is good too, and with progress comes some negatives. But the point is gluttony is bad. Whether this be with food or earth’s natural resources. The fact is, Americans, as a society are very wasteful. We can much more to protect our home if we were just a little more conservation minded. If religious leaders feel this way, then by all means they should try to influence their congregations to be more “green”.

By E Floyd

March 26, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

If god meant for me to drive a Prius, he wouldn’t have given me such a large rear end.

By Copyleft

March 27, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

You’re right, the church should never comment on “secular matters.”

Like education, and abortion, and slavery, and euthanasia, and aid to the poor, and war, and genocide, and….

You get the idea. Seems awfully suspicious that suddenly, this ONE ASPECT of society seems off-limits to religious commentary. I wonder why?

By Jeff S.

March 27, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Mr. Boggs has a eschatology that was greatly influenced by Plato and, more recently, the “Left Behind” series: Earth = evil, human souls = good. Hence, they think that in the “end times” Jesus is coming back to beam them up to heaven (some floaty place in space?) and destroy the earth. So, according to this distorted belief, what is the point on taking care of our planet?

Well, that’s not really what the Bible says. It really says that God wants to redeem/restore all creation, not destroy it, and we are called to partner with him in this project! There’s not enough space to go into it here, but I highly recommend N. T. Wright’s latest book, “Surprised by Hope: Rethinking Heaven, the Resurrection, and the Mission of the Church”.

By Get it Right

March 27, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this

All the Global Warming Facists - including the Baptists - need to wake up to the reality that Gloal Warming is a hoax created to make money. Fallacy - Increased CO2 makes the temperature rise. Reality - Increased temperature increases CO2.

By StewieGriifin

March 27, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

anyone who buys a Prius, or any hybrid car to be “Green” is an ignorant, dupped fool. Hybrids do more damage to the environment than good. CO2 is not a pollutant, there is no credible evidense to link CO2 and global warming, and the production of the batteries used in hybrids does more damage to the environment than the amount of tail pipe emissions that they save. Do a little research on the subject - the “dust to dust” study. NiMH batteries are toxic, so how do you get rid of them in 10 years once the car is junked or the batteries need to be replaced?

This whole thing with compact florescent batteries is the same mess. They contain mercury and other polutants. You can’t just throw them away when they burn out or you will pollute the ground and our drinking water. But, most people are ignorant to this fact and will throw them away. So, in the name of cutting down on electrical consumption and pollution caused by electric production, we will poison the earth and our children’s water supply. Nice move green Nazi’s. Lets approach conservation intelligently and not trade one evil for another.

By StewieGriifin

March 27, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

anyone who buys a Prius, or any hybrid car to be “Green” is an ignorant, dupped fool. Hybrids do more damage to the environment than good. CO2 is not a pollutant, there is no credible evidence to link CO2 and global warming, and the production of the batteries used in hybrids does more damage to the environment than the amount of tail pipe emissions that they save. Do a little research on the subject - the “dust to dust” study. NiMH batteries are toxic, so how do you get rid of them in 10 years once the car is junked or the batteries need to be replaced?

This whole thing with compact florescent batteries is the same mess. They contain mercury and other polutants. You can’t just throw them away when they burn out or you will pollute the ground and our drinking water. But, most people are ignorant to this fact and will throw them away. So, in the name of cutting down on electrical consumption and pollution caused by electric production, we will poison the earth and our children’s water supply. Nice move green Nazi’s. Lets approach conservation intelligently and not trade one evil for another.

By Darrel

March 27, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

Quite honestly, as a Christian myself, I do believe that the churches should keep to taking care of their own business and not be sticking their noses into problems not delineated in the Bible. Preachers should be preaching about what they were trained to preach/teach about and not be getting their noses into the business of the world and politics where their ideas and opinions are greater than their training and knowledge. In other words, if it is not of religious bent then do not get all worked up over it. Well, Baptists do tend to stick their noses into everyone else’s business anyway don’t they?

By mishap

March 27, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

@StewieGriffin If you’re referring to that incredibly skewed report that a Prius costs more per mile than a Hummer, it’s been disproven. The report claims the Hummer will last 300k miles while the Prius will die exactly at 100k. Cost of production is higher on a hybrid but not as much as they report.

The batteries of a hybrid can be recycled. Just like all those millions of lead acid batteries used today. There’s monetary incentive to recycle them and that will keep most of them out of landfills. You’re talking about a several hundred lb battery…not a double AA.

As for compact fluorescents…burning coal for electricity dumps mercury straight into the air. Offering recycling programs for bulbs that last several times as long isn’t a bad plan.

There are tradeoffs w/ every technology. Making downsides more manageable is a big part of green initiatives. That said, I’m not jumping for a hybrid…there are plenty of plain sedans that get near their mileage without the cost. The hybrid monster SUV’s make more sense though. Going from nothing mileage to abysmal affects the env far more.

By Jonathan Merritt

March 27, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

As the spokesperson for the initiatvie, let me make a couple of comments:

I think it is important to note that Luke Boggs is the head of AmericansforWalmart.org. While I respect his right to defend perhaps the largest and most controversial companies in the history of humanity, we need to remember that his comments come with an extra helping of bias. When you take into consideration his political and economic paradigm, the credibility of his comments fall faster than the prices on Walmart commercials.

As far a global climate change, let’s be clear on one thing: there is still some uncertainty. In other words, when people make statements about it being “a hoax” that is just drummed up to make money, you should realize that those people don’t know what they are talking about. I hold a degree in biology and chamistry, and the much of the data is too complex for me to interpret. Unfortunately, many people who are making comments like these are not even reading the data. They are reading what some newsperson has said about the data. It is probably wisest not to download our opinions about either science or theology from MSNBC.

I encourage everyone to actually read the document (baptistcreationcare.org). It is not a controversial document. It simply asks that men and women of the Christian faith—specifically Southern Baptists—allow prudence to guide their lifestyles.

We can all make a difference.

By Luke Boggs

March 27, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

Thanks to everyone for commenting on my op-ed from today’s AJC, whatever your perspective.

While I believe that individual Christians can and should be involved in worldly political matters, including the debate on global warming, I don’t think it is a great idea for an ad-hoc group within a denomination to try to decide for everyone within the church on an issue like this.

Responding to global warming is not a clear-cut case of what is right and what is wrong. Reasonable people within the church—and without—can and do have different views of this issue. And that’s fine. In fact, that’s where it should be left, without some people within a denomination attempting to speak for everyone.

And understand this. I think, as a Christian, that we should be good and thoughtful stewards of God’s creation. I certainly don’t think, as one poster above said, that it is fine to wreck the planet because the end of the world is near. (While I do believe in the Second Coming, the line about that in my op-ed was meant to be humorous.)

But I think the jury is very much out on whether or not I need to do everything in my power, as a Christian, to reduce my carbon footprint. That’s something that the Bible and Christian tradition are not perfectly clear on.

Meanwhile, I’m convinced that there would be all sorts of very real—and potentially devastating—economic ramifications from worldwide efforts to combat global warming with limits on CO2. And, as a society, we need to balance any decisions made about the environment against the harm they might do to workers and their families.

Thanks again to all the posters. I appreciate you taking the time to be involved and put your opinion out there. — Luke Boggs

By comp133xi7y

March 27, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Yeah, Boggs, it would suck if this whole environmental thing took time away from you and your church’s gay bashing. Best get rid of it now so you can go back to what you Southern Baptists do best - persecuting people.

By Margaret

March 27, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

In many ways, I think it’s time for Christians to recongize the interconnectedness of our world. We are living in the age of globalization and what each of us does here affects someone else. Stewardship is more than taking care of ourself or taking care of our own, it’s taking care of those around us. And that includes the environment.

By ???!!!

March 27, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

But I think the jury is very much out on whether or not I need to do everything in my power, as a Christian, to reduce my carbon footprint. That’s something that the Bible and Christian tradition are not perfectly clear on

Gosh, really? There’s no mention of carbon footprints in the Bible that predates modern chemistry by a few millenia? REALLY?

You know, what makes “Christians” like you so pathetic is that you look to a book written by primitive man thousands of years ago to answer questions about modern day science. You are willfully ignorant fools. And bigots and warmongers, too, but that’s another topic.

By Luke Boggs

March 27, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

As Mr. Merritt correctly points out, I am a fan of both Wal-Mart and the free enterprise system in general.

I’m afraid my independent effort (which was not sponsored by or connected to Wal-Mart in any way) has been on my backburner for some time. (Though I stand by all that is written there, I haven’t updated the website in more than 18 months.)

Feel free to read all about my views of Wal-Mart and free enterprise at www.americansforwalmart.org. You will notice that, while I do have some strong personal views about the importance of maintaining and protecting our free market system, I have not tried to suggest that God supports my views—or that all Southern Baptists should agree with me.

That is Mr. Merritt’s business. — Luke Boggs

By James Cool

March 27, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

I once heard one of my wise Southern Baptist pastors say The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing! Jeusus implied that when He said, “Go Ye into all the world and preach the Gospel”. It’s that simple. When we deviate from that main theme, it’s just what the devil wants - watered down Christianity that will not change people’s souls for eternity.

By The truth

March 27, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Darrel, Baptists stick their noses in other peoples business? It’s kind of funny that you say that. You’re sticking your nose in baptists business. I love all the christian haters that show up on these blogs. You guys really need a life. This blog is yet another example of how the ajc is a race baiting and anti christian newspaper. I also love the fact that the ajc is tanking in viewership.

By James Cool

March 27, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

For those of you denigrating God’s Word by referring to it as a non-scientific book written by “primitive man” I would like to remind you that at a time when the best scientific minds of the world said the earth was held up by Atlas, or was on the back of a giant turtle or the back of an elephant or held up by four pillars; Job in the Old Testament said “He hangeth the earth upon nothing”! Hummmm ………..

By Caroline

March 27, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

I don’t know why I even bother to read Luke Boggs’ opinion columns. They just make me angry. How can a person with God-given intelligence rely so heavily on faith without even consulting reason? An ice sheet seven times the size of Manhattan broke off Antarctica over the last month. Denying global warming, which the overwhelming majority of scientists believe is happening, is tantamount to sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes, humming loudly and repeating, “I can’t hear you!” If Mr Boggs wants to believe that black is white, up is down and the Earth is flat, more power to him. I just wish the AJC would refrain from publishing such tripe.

By Mark

March 27, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Baptists are simply another ignorant form of religion. And one of the most hypocritical. Just check out the parking lots at the strip clubs when their convention comes to town. Anyone who believes in a magical man in the sky is an illiterate fool.

By CandyBar

March 27, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Mark is simply another ignorant form of a human being. What strip clubs are you referring to?

Mark, Be sure to tell Hitler hello when you see him.

By thefisherman

March 27, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Read the first two chapters of Genesis and you can plainly see that Darwinism, and other earth forming theories, follow the very same Biblical logic of how God created the heavens, the earth and life..

By No Really

March 27, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

The Pirus is a death trap.

And only a person will little regard for their safety would drive it. So while I am concerned about the environment, my current families well being takes precedence.

By James Cool

March 27, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

To Mark:

“Baptist” is not a religion. It is a denomination of Christianity.

Religion is man’s attempt to reach out to God.

Christianity is God’s attempt to reach out to man.

If you truly seek God with all your heart I believe He will reach out to you. Don’t miss the opportunity when that happens. It may not come your way again.

By Copyleft

March 27, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

No Really: So I assume you have a safe vehicle, like a minivan, right?

Surely not one of those “SUV” deathtraps, which have proven LESS safe than almost any other type of passenger car.

But let me guess—you “feel” safer when you drive it, right?

By ron

March 27, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

I recently read a car comparison report in the London Times between a Prius and BMW with a 177 bhp diesel.The test consisted of a drive 0f 545 miles over as many different types of driving as possible.The diesel had better fuel economy by 1 mpg.49 versus 48

By sane jane

March 27, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

In all fairness, James Cool, referring to the bible as “non-scientific, written by primitive man” is putting it pretty charitably.

Whereas making an outrageous claim (like calling it “the inerrant word of God”) is gallingly presumptuous and infinitely more offensive to folks who don’t share your particular beliefs.

By P Pilate

March 27, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

I just want to say ‘thank you’ for all your support. I have gotten over your messing up the money changing table. I so glad were back together agian. Yes, sell all of your possession. I’ve got great prices today you just can’t miss. Remember, give me all that is mine. Don’t worry about tommorow. Prices are guaranteed to drop.

By Shannon, M.Div.

March 27, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

To get back to the original question, it’s valid to ask how much of our lives and our politics our faith should touch. As anyone who has actually read the Bible knows without a doubt, Jesus and the prophets spent a heckuva lot more time talking about government responsibility to the poor (read Mary’s song in Luke if you want a good summary of socialism, for instance, and if that offends you, better stay away from the OT prophets) than they did about issues that are usually identified with conservative politics.

Jesus didn’t come for family values; Jesus came to set family members against each other. Jesus didn’t come to prevent abortions or gay marriage; Jesus came to show us that we live arrogant, self-centered lives and that the way to salvation involves giving up our worldly cares, pursuits, and possessions. Jesus didn’t come to pat the Pharisees on the back (in today’s parlance, Pharisee = regular Sunday morning churchgoer) but to show them their spiritual poverty despite having all the right outward signs.

So yeah, I think our American way of life which is so destructive to the people in sweatshops who sew our clothes, manufacture our iPods, and make our shoes—yeah, that’s pretty fair game for a shout-out from the pulpit. Tell your view to the people in Chile with their increasingly high rates of skin cancer due to a depleted ozone layer—tell them that your faith doesn’t encompass telling Americans how to live their lives with ecological responsibility. It’s a bloody shame more pastors don’t look to see the effects America and other industrialized nations have on the rest of the world.

By Robert

March 27, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

The Bible actually is God’s green book. For a few examples, I suggest a quick read: http://www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=7506.

By James

March 27, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

To Sane Jane:

You really didn’t respond to my point about what Job said. Even the scientific community doesn’t refute the age of the book of Job yet he said “God hangeth the earth upon nothing”. How did he know that when all the world thought otherwise?

The Bible teaches Christians to spread the Word about eternal life in Christ and leave the results to God. One thing is for sure - if you are right and I am wrong we both win but if I am right and you are wrong you will have no excuse before God as “you have heard”. You refer to yourself as “Sane Jane”. Who is taking the greatest chance?

Please reconsider and reach out to God.

By P Pilate

March 27, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

Hey, that’s all fine and dandy. Argue about all those ‘Angels on a pin head thing’. What is really important is that you continue to be team players and go shopping today. Your country and economy is depending upon it.

By Rich

March 27, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

For all of you who subscribe to the CO2/Global Warming theory, I direct your attention to the Link: story that ran earlier this month, stating that CO2 emissions must drop to virtually zero in order to stave off global warming. Now that you know, instead of buying a Prius, buy a plastic bag, put it over your head, and stop your CO2-emitting body from continuing to ruin the earth. It’s the least you can do as a good shepherd of the planet God made for us.

By P Pilate

March 27, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

You couldn’t just leave well enough alone. Business is business and I wash my hands of this whole issue. You religious nuts can debate all you want. But If Mr. C. gets wind of this, you’re going to have one cross to bear.